Maps and monsters : how environment influences Monster Hunter
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- In the discussion of who's coming back and who's overstayed their welcome, monsters are typically discussed in isolation. Maybe we should be paying as much attention to the environments they live in - as we explore now.
Tea's channel : / @teacommonshark
Qurupeco calls : • 【MH】クルペッコの鳴き真似レパートリー(28種)
Patreon : / unnaturalhistorychannel
0:00 : Intro and fledgling ideas in MH1
3:38 : Second gen expansions
6:04 : Tri's new mechanics and 3rd gen
11:04 : 4th gen and maps for both monster and hunter + story emphasis
14:54 : World and all it added
30:56 : Rise and it's hunter-centric maps
34:16 : Monster-monster interactions in 5th gen
37:30 : Mainline vs portable
41:06 : Expansions
43:17 : Can we predict anything for 6?
44:10 : Monster Hunter's core inspiration
44:56 : Debrief 
Игры
Diabolos: "I got a cactus!"
Barroth: "I got an altaroth!"
Qurupeco: "I got some fish!"
Uragaan: "I got a rock.."
Uragaan is the child who got a lump of coal in his stocking for christmas
@@unnaturalhistorychannel And loved it. Probably.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel He’s the child who ASKED for a lump of coal in his stocking for Christmas.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel in my headcanon that would be black gravios.
upopular opinion: the Ancient Forest is a wonderful map, it's feels like a real place! it feels wild and dense, it makes you feel like you're pushing though nature. I love it, I love how complex and alive it feels... no other mon hun map feels like this (to me).
Strongly agreed. People need to cope over it and enjoy the jungle instead of wanting featureless corridor maps
I second this. I am one with the trees...
Wait, people hated the map? How😂😂😂
The ancient forrest is the best map in the series! It's not even close tbh.
@@goosegettinloose5924 “it looks the same and I’m getting lost” is 99.9999% of the complaints
I vote there should be a a shoal or white cliffs map overlooking the ocean (similar to the ones found near Seaford in the U.K) i can always imagine sometime of diving flying wyvern jumping of the cliffs to catch food in the ocean and with a windy atmosphere would make for an amazing ambience
Bempton Cliffs map with diving-bird wyvern gannet monster
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Add in underwater combat for potential ambush scenarios.
That could be a good alternative map for Legiana (or a close relative) outside the corals and the hoarfrost
I personally wouldn't mind seeing a seabird wyvern based on a cormorant. With flying and diving attacks for some nice challenge & ambience.
@@naturalist10000so Valstrax just now airborne?
Monster hunter Tri's focus on things like ecology, environment, immersion, etc. is one of the reasons why it is my favourite monster hunter game. It may not have had as many weapons or as much content as other games, but what it did have was attention to detail.
Took me a while to come around to it, but I do love what Tri was doing when it all clicked.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Despite my love for it, I definitely understand why Tri didn't mesh well with a lot of people.
Tri had underwater combat, and a lot of people didn't like that.
I did, it really made me feel like the aquatic monsters were actually aquatic, as opposed to a wet land sausage. I loved how they would retreat back into the water after taking too much of a beating, only to then become much more ferocious once in the water, as if being in it's element regained it's confidence.
Tri was missing weapon types, that is a big mark against it for sure. On top of missing weapon types, the game had less content as a whole. However even the small monster roster was nice in a way, as it meant fewer nonsensical monsters made it in. Quality over quantity and all that.
Also the custom bowgun system was really fun, No Idea why it was removed in 3 ultimate.
Tri was my first MH game! I got it when I was 12! It will always hold a special place in my heart.
How would you play Tri online? I was thinking of emulating it. The only thing holding me back from playing tri is the high rank multiplayer lock. But I know people are working on setting up their own private servers. I really loved 3U when I visited it last year and I know tri has many unique differences.
@@CyberJellos aqua combat is the best thing monster hunter have ever implemented i hate every aquatic monster but i would fight them any day if it meant swimming in the ocean
The rotten vale being a digestive tract based map furthers it's position as my overall favorite map. Even gets a proper resident elder dragon with a stable job. Excellent video!
Also, balloon boi lazily floating after the rest of the highlands roster is hilarious.
It is the carcass of a dalamadur which is crazy cool to me
I loved how before Iceborne, few monsters even went down to the vale's lowest level. Just inhospitable acid pits. So eerie and cool. Made me feel nervous heading to Vaal Hazak the first time.
i like how tzi-tzi's prey hunting animation and turf war with legiana is essentially a tutorial on using flash bombs to ground flying monsters
It's not even an explicit "Turf War", Tzitzi will flash stronger monsters just for the distraction before it runs off.
What I love about what they did with Monster hunter world and iceborne is how they mixed fantasy and realism! The world and monsters feel alive and more like just animals rather than just monstrous bloodthirsty creatures, really hope they continue on with this theme in the next game and have it be open world! Although seeing banbaro in every other habitat other than the hoarfrost reach was weird as hell though
Banbaro should only appear in cold maps or at most a colder temperate map.
But the more warmer and lush temperate maps, or anything else... no.
Also it clearly should be like a 4 Star monster, 3 at least.
The only reason why it was on such a low MR was because it was the introduction monster to the new ice map.
Similar to Anjanath, who was like lower rank in World due it filling the role of the first roadblock, got promoted like one rank in Rise, since it doesn't need to fill this role anymore.
That's always been monster hunter. World is just going back to its roots of the first and second generation.
I think Rise is the only game that tries to get rid of the grounded aspect to the extent that it did, but if MHW and Rise are the only two games you've played i can see why you said thst
I honestly despise the art style, if feels like they were trying to pander to a completely different audience
Monster Hunter has always been about being in an ecosystem. They were pandering to the audience they wanted, and already had. If you want a true fantasy game about fighting bloodthirsty beasts with no purpose, you might want to move away from Monster Hunter because that is quite the opposite of what the developers want to portray.
I really miss being able to watch monsters go about their lives without being attacked and catching endemic life to put in your room
I miss that a lot. Especially how all monsters had different reactions to you. Like some ignore you, some roar at you as a warning, and some were on sight aggressive.
@@bombshell361 exactly it felt so animal and now I can’t even see the same plant without a monster wanting to beat me to desth
I ceep the starting room because sharing a room with other hunters and just unload a Bucket of Spiders and Ants as Pets is so fucking funny xD
Tbf, rise was literally made at the same time as world. So its kind off hard to change the ai behavior like that.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 yeah that’s fair
This video makes me appreciate MHW so much more. Wow.
For a long time, ever since the 3rd gen and the immense success of Portable 3rd, as opposed to Tri, the series have been straying towards the portable design phiolophy, as it was what the community was seemingly preferring. With the 5th gen, the tables have finally turned, and maybe will see the series finally going in the opposite direction. I'm very hopeful that the 6th gen titles, both mainline and portable, will double down on the key features of world, because Monster Hunter is so much more than simply combat.
While of course having more grounded staple maps like forests and such is important, I would really like to see more maps like the coral highlands and rotten vale. Maps that are like the monsters themselves in that they are fantastical but are still thought out and grounded.
29:17 29:17 29:18
i think its amazing how World added a map that was filled with land coral and refused to elaborate
I love WorldBorne's maps but I never knew why. You articulated exactly why I love them, it's because the maps tell a story. Environments I wish were more focused on are marshes like gen 1's old swamp. The mist had such an eerie atmosphere and it scared me as a kid whenever I hunt there(probably also because I sucked back in old mh). I also wanna see more fantastical settings similar to the coral highlands and the rotten vale, maybe an insect focused environment (with huge flowers and tree's filled with honey etc) with lots of bug monsters and bug predator monsters!
One thing that i think is of important note is the *reason* for the portable/mainline divide, as the line doesnt arbitrarily exist for no reason. It's been mentioned by developers during development of rise that While monsterhunter world was a colossal success, japanese players actually felt quite left-out.
Japan's heavily workaholic-based culture means that most of a person's free time is actually spent on a Train in public transport, rather than at home;which handily leaves the japanese player-base prefering shorter bursts of gameplay they can pick up on the go, which mainline games can unfortunately not provide due to the focus on slower atmosphere and ecology over combat and gameplay, it sorta butts heads.
Of course it''s also a rather big ask to ask japanese developers to not consider the japanese playerbase, but it does a lot to explain why portable entries exist to an extent as a seccond-thought compared to mainline, as they in a way are.
My own prefference will always lie with the more atmospheric entries of mainline, but nonetheless i apreciate the portable ones as they form more of a bridge for a playerbase for whom that format is jut not as accessible.
I definitely understand why this exists, but it just gives me one more small reason to dislike Japan's work culture.
Capcom: "Hey let's make a quest where you fight Diablos in the Frost Islands!"
UHC:(eye twitches uncontrollably)
This. And I like how elders can bend the environment to suit them. It makes the Monster Hunter universe feel like an actual real environment and these things are icing on the cake.
You know, this makes me wonder if the Wildspire Wastes are an example of desertification and it did used to be an entire marshland. Perhaps as the Ancient Forest changed from dense to open forest, it affected the run off from the forest and shrank the marshes. This would mean Rathalos' impact on the New World doesn't just affect the Ancient Forest but the Wildspire Wastes (perhaps formerly the Wildspire Wetlands) as well. Who knows what has already gone extinct in the Wildspire Wastes and I imagine mud-dependent animals like Barroth and Jyuratodus are in real trouble.
Could also be due to the rising of mountains between the two locales changing the water flow from the forest to the marshlands and turning them dry. If that was indeed true, it would also be tempting to say it might be due to the impact of Shara's past actions, similarly to how it cooled off the Hoarfrost reach by changing the magma flow or how it created the Vale by burying the dead elders (at least IIRC, I think UHC mentioned this in the Tierlist video).
I think it should have been a tropical savannah prairie instead of just another desert environment
Cringe pfp stop commenting you bozo and get a life
Calling it now MonHun 6 will have a space map to go with the jet shark UHC teased in the other video
I'm surprised that you didn't mention how Deviljho had a nest all to himself in the tundra, which only he could even open up for the player to explore (until 3U)
Jade Barroth went there in P3rd.
Always felt like the maps were immersive even in older games
They were
probably a case of how some people can fully immerse themselves while reading a book and some can't without detailed pictures to help inform their imagination.
Same. I remember looking at all the small things on my way back to the camp or on missions. My favorite is misty peaks and Jurassic frontier.
Right!!
I spent hours in exepedions in the older games trying to get a good handle on all the respurce points. All the little shortcuts too.
Loving all of Tea's little animations, god I gotta start playing around with the Monster models in Blender.
i cant wait for him to go over my two favourite monsters, valstrax and magnamalo, and how they have been weaved perfectly into the ecology of both g/gu and sunrise!
(thank you once again for another in depth video!)
Is this sarcasm or you are a grnuine fan of these monsters?
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 I mean Valstrax is like a bird that lives on the wing and magnamalo is a predator that is native to kamura I think its not-nonexistant
Certain old fans can hate on this game but I love how the monsters are all incorporated properly into their environment. Makes the world feel more believable.
Which gqme
love the game, got nearly 2000 hours on it
what I hate is the community
@@DanielPereira-ey9nt MHW
Older games had a form of it too but people never opened their eyes to it.
Love your content, man! Every point you create makes me sit back and actually think, “Yeah, that makes a lot of sense!” Would love to see a video on Seltas or Narkarkos! I think both of them would make for some interesting ecology videos!
Seltas will be covered someday at least!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Ok, thanks for replying!
You got some of the hottest hot takes in the MH community, but damn it, if said hot takes aren't also based and your content is so high-quality.
I know you have your biases regarding what you find satisfying in MH, but I think it's important to remember that MH does its best when it connects all the approaches. The grounded and ecological needs to be married to the absurd and flashy in a weird but beautiful mix that makes MH what it is.
And I think most generations have achieved that well. Despite their questionable mixing with ecology, I'm not necessarily anti-elder dragon at all. FU is also probably my favourite game if base-World isn't.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel I think a lot of the higher fantasy-style stuff like Elder Dragons or Resonance somewhat harkens back to MH's roots as an originally more contemporary traditional fantasy setting with goblins, fortress dragons, etc., but in a way that's still within current focus on developing ecology.
Actually, for that matter, do you think you'll ever tackle Wyverians? They're essentially MH's take on elves given their pointy ears, long lives, and higher affinity with nature; makes sense, since they may well have been adapted from MH's conception as a traditional fantasy series from actual elves. But they're also a lot weirder than elves, like how they're descended from Elder Dragons and can range in all kinds of phenotypes from human-like, tiny goblins, or even giants like His Immenseness.
@@GunlessSnake yeahhhh you correct
Request To UHC to discuss various races that exist in MH universe
Interaction between them
Etc
@@GunlessSnake Not Wyverians specifically, but Moga(ns?) have webbed feet and hands- I didn't know about that until like, 2018 or so, I'm not specifically sure if it's just between everything but the thumbs, but even if it is, I think the implication that cutting that webbing between the pointer and thumb to take up a life as an adult or as a significant point in maturity would be cool to think about.
I'm willing to bet the not-dwarves from MH4 have a skeleton made from Stoutbones.
I'd love a Monster Hunter game that lets us get as close to a foreign culture as 3 did, but I think I'd be a bit worried if the series ever went super focused on it- Might give some cool lore though, especially if it dips more into the relationships between Hunters, People and Nature, I know I could probably replay either of Stories for something like that, but I'd also love to see someone just ride around on a Great Jaggi casually.
So that's why there's always debate over whether certain Main team monsters can return in the next game or not, while there's less of those arguments in regards to Portable team monsters, infact I've noticed how we tend to expect Portable monsters returning far more than Main team ones.
For example, Lagiacrus and Gore Magala were always met with debate over how they'd fit in future MH titles, while Zinogre and Nargacuga are seen as near guaranteed to appear in whatever the next title is.
And to use monsters from the latest games, Odogaron is very beloved and fans would like to see it in another game, but for some it's hard to see Odo existing outside of such a specialized environment like the Rotten Vale, without Capcom creating a new map that'll just be the exact same thing.
Like Odogaron, Goss Harag is a monster that became a very popular new addition, but unlike Odo it's very easy to see Goss return because it's not tied to a very specific environment, just put the bear in any cold biome and there wouldn't be any issue. For all we know, Goss could may aswell be set to reappear in whatever MH6's ice biome will be(if it debuts with one).
I was expecting a completely different video. I guess the title gave me the impression that you were going to go into detail about the general environments. Like what ecological pressures maps like the Ancient Forest or any of the desert maps would place on the monsters, and how that would in turn affect them. Definitely wasn’t expecting what was essentially a review of how the developers handle maps, but your videos are always a treat irregardless and I still learned something. Great video as always
There’s a reason why MH has felt so unique; no other game series delves into ecology into this degree, especially for a fictional setting. Anybody with outdoor experience knows just how critical an environment is to how an animal looks and moves; a fight isn’t everything. This is what drew me to MH as a franchise and I am genuinely afraid that this design philosophy could be lost, leaving those of use with an ecological mind to have nothing to be satisfied with.
Bro I dont think it will be lost at all since mh rise is a portable game and those are meant to be ridiculous.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 this isn’t just about Rise or something in the near future. I’m looking overall and understanding how agendas change and product quality can dip as a franchise ages and has new people in charge.
@@wildcatxpert676 also, what are your thoughts on rise, even tho its vastly different from world, I still appreciate it.
I definitely prefer the numbered series to portable overall. That being said, there are some things in Gen U and Rise that I liked. They do have some nice monster designs like Mizutsune, Gammoth, Rakna, and Almudron. I am also a fan of the palamutes and prowler mode, though I think both features could’ve been improved, and I was very excited to fight Espinas for the first time. On the combat side, not a fan of it getting faster; the game’s context is always that the monster has the advantage and a speed difference is one of the best ways of showcasing that. Plus it works since humans are laughably slow compared to other large animals in our own world.
The Deserted Island and Flooded Forest are some of the most unique, beautiful and original and yet deeply familiar and well realised wild fantasy landscapes I’ve ever seen in a game.
As a kid, Deserted Island felt like a lofty turbocharged prehistoric British isles with a generous serving of equatorial flora and volcanic geographical features.
The world created in the game just seemed to just make sense.
Herbivores felt like Wild Horses on an Island’s plains, Rathians like solitary eagles on the peaks, Epioth like seals on the shoreline, and Jaggi like wolves in their den.
Until I saw this video I didn’t really appreciate why it struck me so much as a kid, because everything fit its ecological niche that’s why it felt so fresh and immersive.
I just love MHW Maps. Never before was just mining recorces that enjoyable. I loved just stroling trough the ancient forest and pick mushrooms and Plants. Its just beautifull.
we really should get a video on one of the rock-eaters soon, lithovores are a fairly common trope and it'd be nice to receive a video on their possible biology.
One of my biggest gripes with world was that some monsters had very few sectors that they would go to. Lavasioth, jyuratodus, gold/silv raths, and it always breaks immersion for me to always know where they'll be
The first person I've ever heard wanting more of Jyura or worse, Lavasioth, but ok. And the rare Raths have always been super bosses first. And still, its on the elder recess.
@@marcoasturias8520 Good fights or no, they equally break my immersion when they literally stay in one spot. The gold/silver raths are hardly super bosses, at least in world. The worst part of their fight is the spikes falling from the ceiling.
Remember how Lavasioth was restricted to literally just two zones in MHGU?
@@Stratelier what are you trying to say?
@@slommie1649 they're trying to say that, lavasioth has unfortunate side effect of being THE lava fish monster. If lavasioth decides to move freely around the map that lacks lava, it'll just be weird because why tf would the lava fish monster move to places with no lava? This applies to most monsters that are designed around their respective habitat (or sub habitat like lava pools, etc). Zinogre can go pretty much anywhere in the map he's in because honestly, Zin doesn't really have any part of the map that's built for him specifically
I love both the old and new swamp, the verdant hills, but my favorite map is the snowy mountains, I think all are great for being snapshots of what ecosystems have in diversity. I adore how you can see the next area in the distance of each room in the snowy mountains map, it tries telling you that the hunting location is huge and only select areas are suitable to properly fight the monster in, I do wish the kezu would be fightable in the more narrow caves though, or if tigrex could be fought in the room just at the base of the steep mountain wall.
This video has reminded me of two things;
First, the idea I had for a Game's Gimmick, that being a Horn that replicates Monster roars and calls- Which I picture not immediately summoning the Monster you had selected, but only having a chance to do so, and then also a chance to cause any "Prey" Monsters to flee the Locale, and then a chance to Summon other Monsters that would reasonably respond to a call- Like a Scavenger responding to a Predator's call in the hopes of finding a kill. All of which could be improved by Armor Skills, Direct improvements on the Horn like a Weapon, and by Picking what Monster Calls and what Specific Calls you used. It would then be paired with a Marionette Spider-like pull as the original idea was me thinking of a way of forcing more Monsters Underwater, specifically ones that would be weaker there, not stronger. And using a Horn to call Monsters to a specific location and pulling them underwater by a leash when they get there seemed like a good solution.
Second is my idea for a Monster Hunter inspired game, which is Ecology focused, with the Singleplayer being primarily Tri's Free Hunting with Bounties on Monsters over a dedicated quest structure. I don't really have that much about it, mainly since I have no ability to make it a reality beyond writing it- Nothing that is actually incredibly helpful with getting it past Pre-Production.
Ahtal-ka is the best example of a monster interacting Whit the environment since the smart mantis literally build a mecha to fight his enemies, Wich sound a lot smarter than sending a guy and a cat to kill a god
I don’t necessarily hate the idea of controlling monsters. Wyvern riding is a poor implementation of that concept though.
I absolutely hate that monsters instantly fall prone the second they take damage from another monster. Wyvern riding requires nearly zero time or skill investment and is extremely OP.
If they bring back the mechanic in some way, they will need to tone it down significantly. Maybe you can only use monsters that you have captured and using them costs quest rewards. Something like that.
Something like making the threshold for a Wyvern Ride to be activated much higher than it really is. At least allow the monster to get hit a couple of times before it's weakened enough to be rideable.
Wyvern riding is broken there's a loop u can do to constantly damage the monsters
I really hate the wyvern riding mechanic. It destroys the fear factor from monsters, especially the supposed invader monsters like Rajang
This video is 100% worth while. I love your videos and they've helped give me some perspective for lack of better words for my own monster hunter stuff. I've recently started making my own monster hunter game and before this video, I just put a decent amount of returning monsters into multiple environments. So after the video I went back through the roster and made them more specific, with monsters appearing in between 1-3 locales. Still kinda a lot for some of them but I feel like it's more realistic this way
Already know this is going to be a banger video, Love your content man keep it up!
Much appreciated!
What do you think of each of t he ride map
If I had to design Elder's reccess I would replace the lava parts with caves of crystals that we see when fighting Xeno'jiiva or just standard caves with some kind of twist. I would love getting lost in one and maybe finding a Teostra munching on some ore and practicing his powder attacks.
Lava just doesn't seem to do it for me lol
Its the people who say "boo to ecology" and only care about hitting big monsters with giant weapons that make me nervous for not just MH6 but the future of MH in general. Rise already removed the need to item prep for different environments while also eliminating the searching or "hunting" aspect of hunts, all for the sake of "streamlining". I hope that gutting the franchise of its features and focus on combat alone is something that doesn't begin to spill over into the main series.
Tbh, most of portable mh is to be fast tho as the game is from Japan and it’s work culture. Also tracking wasn’t implemented due to world and rise being developed at the same time, so scoutflies were not even a concept by the portable team.
The Wyvern riding also made throwing dung obsolete, there's no need to drive the monster away if you can Wyvern ride it
The innovations in representing ecology in World is something I hope will be brought back in the future. I'd love to see more attempts to make the Monster more lifelike, maybe bringing more mutualist interactions à la Seltas or cases where Hunter-Monster truces would be made when a different (and more annoying) Monster enters the area.
Map Ideas:
Frenzied Valley:
A valley surrounded by Hugh mountains on all sides that is being contested between multiple shagura magalas. The higher elevated corners of the valley are the few areas that are normal forests and cliffs while the lower elevated center of the valley is a swampy environment that is essentially covered in frenzied particles being emitted from the highest point in the valley. In the lower center, many monsters who have accidentally wandered into the valley and became frenzied, alongside them are occasional gore magalas and chaotic gore magalas, who are stragglers who haven’t left the valley despite the shagura magalas. In the back end of the valley would be a very mountainous region, where very few frenzied monsters and gore magalas go, as the multiple shagura magalas have all claimed this place as their nest due to the higher elevation allowing for more frenzy dispersal, and they regularly fight. Personally that’s the best way in my opinion that you could bring them back without needing story, but making them remain relevant.
The Heavenly Sanctaury:
A highly elevated mountainous region bordering a coastline that gets regularly hit by almost constant thunderstorms and hurricanes. Major parts of the map are comprised of shallow water pools and waterfalls fed by the constant rainfall. The region would have a flying algae equivalent which is then fed on by smaller flying wyverns who are adapted to eat them. The region itself serves as a very valuable sanctuary for the flying elder dragons that typically live in higher altitudes. Sunken caves travel throughout the inside of the mountain, which provides shelter for mating ibushis and narwas and their young. The water pools and the rainfall that feeds them provide valuable water for amatsu who relies on them for both nourishment and as a weapon to fend off other flying monsters. The highest areas would provide valuable roost for nesting valstrax, who may spend their time resting during certain parts of their life. Favorite map idea.
The Slumbering Caverns: a cave system occupied by a sleeping dalamadur throughout the story the dalamadaur would begin to move and open up passageways to other parts of the map. Some environmental traps would be water sources contaminated with the substance dalamadur uses to make his blue fire, or you could lead monsters to its sleeping head, where it will damage them by shaking them away. I believe that it is a unique way to add him back into the games.
A more blunt way to point out the issue with Savage Deviljho is the difference in mentality players developed between base and Iceborne. In base game deviljho invokes panic when it attacks, crashing in and stomping the player in their late LR gear and mid-to-late HR gear in its rampage as a sudden surprise as it aims for the monster the player is fighting. In MR Savage Deviljho is known as "Savage Devilbro" because it tends to be a helpful benefit rather than a chaotic surprise.
i dont know if you'll see this comment but thank you for making this stuff. im at the lowest point of my life right now and it feels like everything is falling apart around me and i had a mental breakdown not too long ago. there is only a few things keeping me afloat right now and this content is one of those things. this stuff has made me love the biology of monster hunter so much more than i did. thank you so much
I always think that the recess‘ monsters resemble stronger versions of monsters previously met in the other regions or at least parallels. Stepping the game up from Great Jagras, Jyuratodus and Radobaan to Dodogama, Lavasioth and Uragaan.
I notice something with Rise, how they tried to sell it alongside Stories 2 with the cross promotions and all that. But ironically Rise’s wyvern riding is a bastardized version of Story’s kinship
I can see several different species beinf made for the unused itl biomes
Savannahs could have a smaller species of monoblos,since they like to eat tough plants and a smaller footed wyvern that takes a cheetah like role.
the bogs,everglades and marshes could have alligator like fanged wyverns similar to agnaktor.
Temperature forests could have a subspecies of Tobi who doesn't use electricity, Nercylla who makes theur nest between the giant redwood trees,maybe a banbaro subspecies that has the role of moose and elk,and introducing the fanged beast Caeserber who could use the the giant trees as weapons to try and cart you if it hits
I think the monster ecology behaviours in World *could* be part of the gameplay loop too rather than just very welcome window dressing. It isn't really feasible in the current implementation, but you could open a fight by ambushing a monster that you know will be feeding, drinking, marking territory, etc in a certain location. You could place fake markers to influence their behaviour, drawing in monsters for a turf war or making it easier to find them. Set traps or close off routes that you know from observation of these behaviours that the monster will take.
The stamina mechanic from prior games would fit into World very well.
My biggest hope for Monster Hunter 6 is a renewed focus on this ecology aspect with something like a day/night cycle and further ways to use this ecology stuff in the hunts. If scoutflies are gone, something as simple as having to use these features to find monsters could be enough, but you could do so much more. Ambushing monsters when they're tired or after interactions with competitors. Rising tension as a fight goes on because you know something more dangerous will wake up soon. And knock on ecosystem effects like killing a monster increasing the population of its prey temporarily. Making it easier to farm materials from one monster if you first hunt another monster that normally confronts it.
EDIT: Things like placeable cannons or a dragonator for example would be ideal for this. The monster won't stick in the area where you've placed it during combat, so you're realistically only going to get one use out of it, but opening a fight by unloading a fully loaded cannon into a drinking Anjanath or hitting a Rath with a giant spear to start the fight would be a major advantage, and the best way to consistently do that would be using stealth and knowing where the monster feeds/drinks/rests. And then to ensure it happens quickly you could use other factors like fake markings and launching your hunt at a specific time of day.
Likewise, you could have this one big hit happen midway through a fight by using ecology mechanics to narrow the options the monster has for fleeing, or by triggering turf wars on purpose using fake markings.
SECOND EDIT: And another aspect where the ecology can be tied directly into gameplay is in allowing the hunter to carve consumables from monsters. Great Girros could drop an item intended to be picked up and used against Odogaron. Perhaps a mechanic where you steep your weapon in a slain monsters carcass to gain some timed buff. Paralysis in this case. Though costly in development, this would allow you to directly show what features of a monster are used for. Picking up Bazelgeuse scales could create a potent fear tool. Making consumables much more specific rather than generic. Even if they work the same way, simply having one be named Blasting Scale while another is named Dung pod helps to bring the ecology into the gameplay.
As a newer fan to MH, (my first game being mh 3 ultimate) I find it really interesting to see how much the development of these in-game ecosystems has expanded exponentially as each game itself has developed, starting very bare bones, hitting a sortof precipace with MH3, and then subsequently growing out from there. It's hard to imagine a MH game that didn't at least have what MH3 has, and equally as exciting to imagine what sorts of systems the developers will implement for MH6! Also, just wanted to say, I really appreciate the use of graphics, cutscenes, etc. in this vid! Don't get me wrong, I like your more info-graphic style, presentation esque videos, too, but the effort to use the cutscenes and videos isn't unappreciated either!
Iceborne's design is actually kinda interesting, It feels like they designed the bottom half of the Hoarfrost Reach with ecology in mind, but quickly dropped it to make the top part a Barioth and Velkhana arena.
I really really hope 6 turns out like World
agree 100% although some parts of the upper area are nice to see snow shark and blue anja/tigrex doing their stuff
also viper tobi is slept on hard in terms of how good a glow up it was
I feel like the ones that get the short stick when it comes to map interactions are actually the small monsters. They don't interact with the environment, and aside from drome calls and occasional attacks on fallen monsters they don't interact with other species anyway. Makes me wonder why we keep getting stuff like Jaggis, Bullfangos, Vespoids and Kelbis if the only thing they do is annoy the player in one spot of the map that you can avoid (okay I will admit that their sheer existence enforces the concept of biodiverse ecosystem, but they do need more work).
I think even a simple change as making them roam the map (like herbivores in World do) would enrich them a lot both cinematic-wise but also by making the gameplay unpredictable, a pack of Wroggis would be a bigger nuisance if they unexpectedly show up while you are fighting another monster because the battle is taking place near the watering hole or something like that.
And ofc give them actual behaviors, show them hunting and be hunted or even simply beeing shooed by an aggressive monster bothered by them.
And for Zinogre specifically I think there should be specific areas where it has to go to recharge Thunderbugs, maybe with one place being its lair where it gathers so many at once it immediately supercharges for the last stand.
This right here is what i hope will continue with MH6 and other mainline games in time, I dont hate MH Rise but i don't really like it either the monster there dont feel grounded in the environments as much as in World and it at least for me feels awkward.
Tbf, it seems more like the difference of mainline and portable than individual games.
This might be my favorite video from you UHC
I always like when the design underpinnings of games are tackled in depth, and that's exactly what you did here along with providing your relevant specialized knowledge
The video was paced well, and did a great job of putting into words how the game designs made me feel
Ex. I loved Rise in terms of combat, general aesthetic, and style. However I had the feeling that the maps were "dead" environments, and this video made me realize that wasn't just because they were fairly empty, but because the finer ecological details were gone and the focus of them shifted heavily to supporting the player
Great video as always and can't wait to see the next one!
Another way rise failed in making environments is that a lot of the areas you fight are open spaces with nothing in them or areas that only the hunter can get access to just clobber the monster, like arch way in the shrine ruins or the many cliffs seen in the frost islands.
Very good video, I cannot wait to see what comes next!
My counterpoint is that Rise's maps are an attempt to create completely open maps that mimic the style of maps in Generation 4 going back. Really, old-school Monster Hunter maps with no loading zones between areas. This is why the Jungle, Flooded Forest, and Sandy Plains have returned in Rise, as they're experiments at seeing how old maps would look and operate if every zone was truly connected and not just its' own arena.
With that being said, Rise's maps really don't have the same sense of scale that those older maps had, despite the added sense of verticality. Granted, some of those maps had some absolutely massive elevation changes (like the Deserted Island from Tri, and Jurassic Frontier from Generations [the latter of which had an absolutely massive climb to get out of the lower valley.])
Rise's maps, like many systems in the game, seem more designed to funnel players towards the monsters more quickly than previous games, and as such seem to have been shrunken down from what they could have been.
Of course, there's also the deal with time constraints, technical matters, etc., that may have prevented the devs from making maps as large as they seemed to be in previous generations. Hopefully both Monster Hunter teams can learn from this when creating newer "open-zone" maps.
The overall sense of scale in Rise and Sunbreak seems to be smaller than prior Monster Hunter games.
Tbf, most if the rise maps are more like maps from generations.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 aside from 1-2 original maps, Generations is literally just all the old world maps
Tbf, you cannot use the unavoidable monster areas since its too far from range.
Wasnt most of the rise maps returning places from old gen games?
watching Pally roll around in its size comparisaon animation is lowkey peaceful to look at, should be used for a loading screen animation 22:40
Teacommonshark really the MVP of the Monster Hunter Community lately
1:55 well that was an unexpected hot take
21:56 Oh my god Paolumu floating like that is so damn cute this is one of the reasons why I love Paolumu so much imagine if he slept like that in game!!! 24:13 I love how Radobaan is rolling and seeing my boy Great Girros run like that looks wrong (still waiting on that Great Girros video by the way I know you'll get to him inevitably)... Also, I'm getting Nioh 2 war flash backs from that damn fire wheel Yokai I hate that damn thing.
32:41 Yeah, I've fought every single monster in rise and the amount of monsters that can actually hit you while you climb up a way and jump over them can be counted on one hand most of which that can hit you up there are almost all explosions like with Magnamalo's gas and even then the chance they even do hit you is pretty damn low. On the other hand, the number of times I've used a wall to get out of a sticky situation is ridicules...
The funniest thing about the idea of "adding the volcano early and fleshing it out" technically does happen in World.
Unfortunately, it's just Zorah Magdaros, which is just as barren of any smaller unique ecology as the Elder Recess.
I'm all for ecology and elaborate map design but only as long as it doesn't negatively affect the gameplay with Ancient forest and every non Everwood 4U map being good examples of what not to do.
A happy medium with the ancient forest would be nice, its too small a map for how much complexity it has and is just annoying to traverse. Its human big not rathalos big and yet the rathalos lives there. After 1000 hours in world, I could still hardly begin to explain how the main areas are connected, just that I'm led there by the scoutflys. The maps don't need more complexity, they need more 'empty' space to make the size and frequency of the monsters reasonable. I think the probable, sooner or later, open world format will be a good start.
Perhaps a good way to make an early-game volcano map would be as a volcanic island, like Fernandina in the Galapagos. That way, you could give it coastal/sea monsters as well as the volcano ones. Also, a marine iguana Fanged Wyvern would be awesome!
TECHNICALLY DevilJho has one attack that if i remember Correctly changes element depending on the environment where he essentially just uses his jagged lips as a shovel and tosses a rock ,splash of water ,ice rock or magma ball at you depending on where he is standing.*googles to make sure* also effluvian when standing on that
When it comes to monster Hunter ecology my friends and I very much care. We're all really big into monster lore so world was a treat for us. We even keep going back to it despite rise. I feel in a lot of ways not caring about the ecology of the games is very much stripping away a good chunk of what makes the series so great.
I really love this video, and good advice for people who make fan made monsters. I always wondered Rise's areas feel kinda off, but can we all agree Lava Caverns theme slaps
I feel like a good solution to the volcano would be to have blockers that prevent the player from entering the upper levels of the map, and then having the lower levels be introduced early. World did this a couple of times if I remember right. Would make the upper levels have a certain air of mystique too, especially if you tease whats up there with roars or distant glimpses of powerful monsters. Or even have them come down to the lower levels during story cutscenes to style on the player.
I enjoyed this a lot. I love the behind the scenes stuff.
When it comes to future biome zones for Monster Hunter 6, I wouldn't mind something similar to Lake Maracaibo in Venezuela or, to a lesser extent, the Lightning Swamp Bushland in Australia, as I'd imagine the exaggerated nature of monster biology in mosnter hunter would be an interesting lens to view these types of ecosystems. Similarly, a serotanous savannah/pineland would also be something interesting to look at, and having grass/litter fires being an environmental hazard for the hunter to deal with would add some depth I feel. Really, you could make an interesting gimmick for gen 6 this way: having a certain array of ecosystems or ecotones that are more heavily skewed towards one of element types than is commonly associated with them, which in turn affects the kinds of monsters and endemic life found in them (like say said lightning swamp having a monster analogous to an electric eel, followed by monsters that have adaptations meant to deal with said eel powers like a giant harpoon conch snail or something.)
i started Monster hunter in world and this video showed me where Monster hunter came from and really taughter what rise was lacking. I remember i got so caught up in the lore of the areas and just watching the monsters in world. Learning that the rotten vale was a dead Dalamadur got me interested in a monster that wasnt even in the game.
I really wish they add underwater combat and areas again.
Not just for fighting, but to see environmental interactions like in World.
Imagine Rathalos and Lagiacrus interacting similar like in that one Gen 3 opening (forgot which one).
There could be so much interaction between those monsters, as well as some land monster interaction with the water areas.
What the maps of Rise are really missing is feeling the need to explore.
In World those maps are so big with many secret areas, sometimes even having rare endemic life.
Rise doesnt have that.
There are some areas to explore, but they are not nearly as interesting.
Also since Rise lacks endemic life (that you can catch and keep at home), there isn't even a reason to explore those places again, to hopefully find a rare endemic animal.
In World you need to explore those areas multiple times to have the chance to find something rare.
You don't need to do it, but I still caught every endemic life anyway.
Also some of the interactions endemic life had were really nice.
Like some animals running for flying away if someone or something comes near, those dragonfly things glowing in different colors, depending on the threat nearby, those crow things eating carcasses.
If they add endemic life again, then they should have more interactions with other monsters as well.
I would like to see something like a Velociprey or Jaggi sneaking up on a hare and then trying to catch it, with either the predator failing, or succeeding and returning to it's nest with the prey in its mouth.
Also monsters shouldn't feel out of place in a map.
No Banbaro in a volcano map, it should only be in cold maps, also it should be atleast a 3 or 4 Star monster (low rank scaling).
But I want other monsters to fit in a map. Not just because they wanted to add it.
Lore, ecology and gameplay wise they should have a purpose and place.
I think one possible future area could be something like a beach-cave-tropical forest area.
Basicly you have a more open beach area, maybe mangrove or swamp as well.
Then there should be a large cave area, possibly containing spider or crab monsters (like Taikun Zamuza).
It should have a underwater area that is connected to each area.
Maybe even with slow changing tides.
If you stand there long enough, you could an area, mangrove swamp or cave part get flooded.
Other endemic life appears and some secret areas are only accessible during a specific phase. However, all completely necessary areas are always accessible and you cannot get trapped.
Now imagine the variety of monsters this could have.
From all kinds of wyverns and primates in the forest area, to crabs and leviathans on the beach or the cave, and then spider monsters residing in the cave in their nest.
And don't tell me the Jungle map in Rise fits this. There isn't really much of a difference between the areas in terms of big monsters and interactions.
The monsters just kinda exist there.
Also no water/underwater area and the cave isn't really a cave. It's just an area that pretends to be a cave, but is wayyyy to bright and has no special monsters exclusive to it.
Man, I would kill for a monster hunter documentary about the ecology of the monsters. A full fledge documentary set in the monhun world, similar to prehistoric planet, would be legendary if done right.
One of the things I miss from world was the oh shit moments you get when monsters clearly well above your current level were present on the map. Like near the beginning of the game when you can encounter a rathalos when you're clearly not prepared for it.
Rise feels very “video-gamey” in comparison to World. All the endemic creatures look and function more like power-ups than actual living things. They seemingly lack the ecological purpose of World’s creatures. They’re just there to make the player more powerful.
I mean, that’s kind of the point
This is a very important video, the ideas presented here should be widely known across the community.
If aquatic combat returns in MH6, I really hope they make a subterranean lake map of some sort. This would be a great environment for returning monsters from more specialized environments like the Vale, as well as a wonderful excuse to make more terrifying newcomers based on deep sea creatures.
If they were to go an extra mile and adapt the aquatic combat set up for a faster-paced volant option to take the fight to the skies, having vertical structures like massive stalactites, stalagmites, pillars and such for non-volant monsters to traverse could be really neat.
Though, with the over-the-top hunter-centricity of such a concept, maybe that would be best reserved for the portable spin-off...
This is excellent, more like this please!
What a good video man, congratulations
Ngl, ever since I've been subscribed to your channel, I've been conditioned to expecting you lambasting Magnamalo soon as its mug shows up on screen but I'm surprised you didn't, must've taken a lot of restraint. (I like Magnamalo so pardon if this sounds like I'm airing out any jaded experiences.)
I love monste hunter lore, i want to thank you for sharing these with me
This video is great, really does help with designing maps. I think we’ll have to call it “The Three Monster Rule”
Love your videos! Just wanted to say that in MH2Dos you still attacked using the analog stick, i think it was changed in Tri but i'm not too sure about it. All in all, love both your videos about spec evo and documentaries in general.
Love your videos. Keep making them.
You should really make videos on all the different ecosystems in world. I would love to see you discussing all the different lifeforms, from plants to insects to the endemic life the monsters themselves and how they fit into the ecosystem.
I think that this was your best video yet
awesome video!, one day we will see a Nakarkos video
I will say that seeing a volcano fleshed out could be quite fun, especially looking into other ideas to flesh out potential roles the ecosystem could provide, volcanic soil is quite nutritious after all.
The thing I'd add is that as you said its incredibly silly that you can ride a freaking chicken to kick a dragon's ass with some strings, while in the World when you clash 2 monsters together in a turf war it t often feels like the battle of titans where you're just a bug trying not to get trampled by them and it feels amazing
another great video!
I really like your take on the developers focus on world base and the changed focus/goal of iceborne. its funny how a game can be so great gameplay wise and fail to build on the groundwork of previous titles
I absolutely love you for making these videos
44:10 I care because it is inspiration for my novel 😢❤
I love the ecology of the series and how it's had its ups and downs and I hope that it goes up from here I love how the monsters dont just feel like the enemy of the day and they feel alive and they have an impact. My friend group enjoy the games because we love seeing the monsters and how they act we're sad when one feels "neutered" for the sake of fighting just yesterday we reminisced about Bazelguese and how we'd hear the theme start and immediately scatter and now he doesn't have it.
I love the coral highlands visually, but I really think that it would've benefitted from the hunters having more mobility, like being able to use the glider mantle freely and in more spots.
I'm more a contemplative player with Monster Hunter.
I never see the point turn my gaming into a multiplayer-arcade-like gameplay with unknown people using bikini-armor-huntress for slaughtering monsters who struggle to even handle one person.
If wanted to optimize an endless farming quest time, I would play an MMO not monster hunters.
So I’m a bit in line with your thinking I loved MH3U (my first game) and MHW because of this « ecosytem centered aproach » who turn monsters more lively and allow alternating between slow passing track and high intensity fighting.
The tracking with bugs was a great feature in MHW who greatly reinforced the immersion and I was a bit upset about his disappearance .
If I could make a wish for the next opus, it would be to add ecosystem engineers’ monsters who change the map to suit their need has a byproduct of there activities.
It would force palyer to adapt and rediscover a map and adding true wheight about the decision of killing a monster.
No no, I loved this one just as much as the others you've crafted. Great work! 🦕🦖🐊🦅💚
38:00 I never wanna hear someone call this man bland ever again
I really liked moga woods tho itd be nice if they gave you the option to go out like that im every biom. Like world did but its not really nessisary or intresting in world. In 3u and tri points are needed for the farm and are hard to come by not to mention the amazing trading system that came with it getting you special trade items. Personally id love to see this sorta system returne and make the farm more engaging and less free. But i also just enjoy the idea of going out to hunt rack up points and get the special rare comodities. Even better that it actually helps you manage your farm or upgrade it and get ferlizers.
I don't think having a few places in a map monsters will not go is a tremendous issue. Given their absolute size, it makes sense there will be places a giant will simply not bother with or find suitable. Only the tiny need to use 100% of their space efficiently, vast territory compensates for what tiny pockets the large cannot use. Many of Rise's smaller caves and tight corridor transition areas make sense in this regard. It would have been nice if they added some more flavor small ecology though.
Nah dude, this video is undoubtedly worthwhile. While it doesn't provide much professional insight, it's still an important topic to cover and especially relevant now during the lull between Sunbreak's twilight and MH6's inevitable announcement. I think it'll be particularly illuminating to the majority of viewers who didn't play any of these games prior to 5th gen.
I do love to see the season mechanics once again but it can be quite a hassle to new hunter do to hassle of waiting t hunt or gather specific item Beacuse of the season also
This was a neat watch after just watching Heavy Wings' "Portable vs Mainline differences" video. He didn't cover the ecology and monster design... etiquette? so this was a nice stand in
Great video, as always! I think it fit well into your usual content as a great analysis. While I much more preferred MHW, which was my start into the Franchise, I actually can see the huge benefit in Rise as a means to attract new players. Looking at Rise from the lore perspective I don't think is the right way to look at it because it was clearly a game designed with less barriers to entry for new players, a game that players could much more easily try out all the different weapons and make the initial difficulty of how combat works, especially with melee weapons like Hammer or SNS. I believe Rise solidly achieved that objective, which paves the way for MH6 to be true to the original intent as you claimed, on the lore and interactions between monsters rather than something just there to help the hunter. A big distinction you hit on I agree with is the small monsters and map interactions. Rise does have a lot to help the player, with Wirebugs, Great Wirebugs, Puppet Spiders, the Lure Fish thing, and many more. A MH game true to its roots should have endemic life that doesn't do anything for the hunter but can do things only for the other monsters, such as the various kinds of Hares found in World that could only be captured or watched, and nothing else. Really hoping they bring back more of those endemic life, expand the list of turf wars, and dig down deep into monster interactions on the map in MH6!
pretty much every game has been trying to be more accessible for newer players, before Rise came out, it was basically World that was the low bar for entry with all of it's QoL changes compared to 4th generation games.