You have a set Tail current,when there is no more current going to the battery(the battery is full),it goes to float,if you remove tail current,it will hold the 2 hour absorbtion,hope this helps:) This is completely normal,its a smart victron setting by the way,You can look up victrons teaching seminars,where they talk about "tail current function" .
Definitely got to crack that battery open and monitor the cells with a volt meter when aproaching a higher absorption voltage. See how much of an imbalance you have. I have a couple115ah 48v packs like this from golf cart batteries(free) that developed a massive imbalance. I replaced the bms with Bluetooth jk units. They were so out of balance that the bms couldn't keep up. Had to manually balance by shorting high cells with a resisor for several hours each pack. They both are doing great now 100+ days in, the jk bms is doing a great job keeping them balanced.
Bob, you might have your Absorption Duration set to "Adaptive" Under Expert settings, this way Victron CC decides how long absorption should be, by monitoring usage and adapting absorption to it.
If the charge current drops below the specified tail current for one minute, the absorption stage will end and the float stage will begin. This setting can be disabled by setting the tail current to zero.
Mahalo brother! I just looked and tail current was set to 1.8a. I just disabled that. Brain moving slow! Aloha!🤙
Месяц назад+1
Yep, if you set your float voltage a bit higher and or the cut off wait time higher it also can smooth this out.. I like that end amps/tail current setting for days the battery gets a lot of charge quick because the tail is real short when this happens.. This way you can top it off safely and have that extra safety gate to protect the cells because sometimes that absorb time is just too much..
Bob i hope some of these suggestions from other work ....otherwise i would just swap out another controller and put that one on a system that is working ok now. It might rule out some thing's. Hope you heal up fast my friend👍
Hmm. So we know for sure its 16s. But we don't know if the BMS is mis-configured. You have a handle on the issues, the question is whether the target voltage is high enough for the BMS to even begin balancing the cells. If it isn't, then it will start messing up again 6 months from now as the balance goes wonky. Looks you already addressed the tail current issue, definitely leave that turned off. It won't hurt the cells to hold the charge target ~2 hours. You'll have to decide what you want to do next. If it were me, I would set a higher charge target and every day the battery hits full I would look at the graph and find the voltage it is able to achieve just before it goes ballistic due to a BMS disconnect. Write that down and see if it is able to make progress over time. It really depends on how much time you want to spend diagnosing this battery. -Matt
When I had a huge over charging of individual cells my BMS would kick in and stop charging even thought the battery was not fully charged and then the BMS stopped absorbing
Voltage Drop Test. Place a resistor at the inverter DC input. Connection at the (+) to (-) The resistor value should be: 20 Ohms / 5 watts / with a rated voltage greater than 60 volts. 😊 Then set your charge controller to the highest values you want. This should prove successful in determining that: The battery and charge controller will function perfectly as will the power inverter. This diagnostic should prove that the power inverter erroneously sees an over voltage.
@@ProjectsinParadise808 Not great but it establishes a fundamental of voltage value control in electronic circuits. Resistor values and types can be selected more precisely later. In the olden days this was also how we co controlled motor speed. E.G. The fan motor switch would simply have no resistor to achieve high/fast, one resistor for medium speed and two resistors or a higher OHM resistor to create slow low speed. It's all just voltage control. The resistor is inexpensive and reliable but the cost is loss of voltage converted to heat. By the way, the 20 Ohm 5 watt resistor can generate up to 130f heat. Useful in many ways. The incandescent 48 volt bulb would generate light with some heat. Combining resistors with led bulbs can create other benefits like: Green-Yellow-Red to indicate high, medium, low. Or blinking for various reasons.
Месяц назад+1
I am wondering why the BMS did not shut down the day when the voltage hit above 3.65vdc.. I calculated it was almost 3.7vdc per cell and wonder if the wait time for that safety is wrong.. Realistically that safety point should be set at 3.6vdc per cell and just a few seconds before it goes full stop.. The suggestion about the tail current makes sense, I have mine set to stop the absorption and go to float when the current flow into the battery is .5a.. Depending on the amount of amps hitting the battery that tipping point can be reached fast or slow different days.. My 30kw pile is set to charge at 3.5vdc per cell which is considered full battery when the amps going in drop to below that .5a limit where it drops to the float of 3.41vdc where all current stops unless there is a load and if so that power will come from the panels if available.. If not then it starts drawing from the batteries.. Going over the 3.5vdc per cell gains you little except heat and a shorter battery life.. In your battery you only gain an amp or two which is certainly not worth the trade for a shorter life.. Check out Australia Andy's channel called off grid garage on this site he has tons of tips and setup advice..
Very interesting clue. I have done many installs with Victron MPPT controllers and never had one do this with absorption time. This may be in your advanced settings in the Victron. like tail current. Set it to zero and will default to time. This may be normal to change absorption time shout to float. when charging currents below the tail current setting it will go into float. Normally I set it to zero. With questions coming up on that 48V battery BMS . You do have a 48V battery to swap out to try. That one you made with a balancer you added. This has been tested to be great. so take them 4 batteries with that blacencer and put it on that system. This will prove if that 48V BMS in powerqueen acting strange. I have a Ryobi 40V trimmer takes same battery as your mower. It came with 2 heads for trimmer. one is the line and outher has hard plastic blades that can replace. It just ripped threw heavy brush with ease , And they last a long time. I get Bamboo and outher thick weeds hear. I am still in shock how well Ryobi did and lots of videos on youtube showing this as well. But I understand your health and took care of that skin right away. very good. The SUN is our friend but also a enemy at the same time.
So it was the tail current setting. I didn't even look at that with tunnel vision going strong. Was set at 1.8a, I did cancel that back to disabled and it just finished a perfect two hours in absorption, and now if float. Jeez! Gonna blame that on CRS! Aloha!🤙
Interesting to see the various absorption values. However, if you look on power queen's site, apparently that battery is no longer offered. Additionally, having 16 cells in series and assuming you have a major imbalance I wonder if the real issue is that the battery goes into protection mode. Does that battery have ANY communication capabilities? If not, then just accept it as a free test but I don't think I would be in the market for any server style 48v nominal battery without the ability to see EACH individual cell. This is one reason why I am still using RV LiFePO4 cells in parallel / series so that I can monitor if needs be. Good content as always! Aloha from Gary in SE Michigan
Месяц назад
That battery has a BMS controller in it that he can access via Bluetooth and see the 16 cells voltages and state of balance.. He should also be able to adjust some of the safety settings as long as the manufacturer has not locked them out..
the problem with the Reliable Electric inverters are MEANT for Lead ACid, Not lithium. THerefor when you fully charge a lithium or LiFePO4 you will go over voltage
@@sNEAKYnIGHTmUPPET yes, they are trying to have a range compatible with both lead acid and lithium. They usually have small potentiometers to set voltage dc and ac on the PC board. They are usually glued or caulked so it has to be removed before setting.
If the cells are all balanced and topped off, is the bms sending it to float early?. EV charging stations do. Rapid charge to 80% then It takes a longer time period to get it to 100%. Try turning off the PV input to drain the battery down a bit then see if it gives you the 2 hr of absorption.
Месяц назад+1
The BMS in the battery is just a safety device the Victron charge controller handles all the charging parameters..
Haha! I did turn off the tail current at 1.8a, back to disabled...and perfecto! Worked as it should. Held for two hours, and then to float. This one was error on me, for sure. Aloha brother🤙
Is it totally unheard of for one of those Victron units to go haywire? Sounds like you're to the point of losing sleep over this system's mystery. Be well.
Ah shoot dave....I think I gotta chalk this one up to operator error. I did like a few pointed out and turned off the tail current which was set at 1.8a. It worked perfectly then. I just didn't see that buddy. Aloha!🤙
You have a set Tail current,when there is no more current going to the battery(the battery is full),it goes to float,if you remove tail current,it will hold the 2 hour absorbtion,hope this helps:) This is completely normal,its a smart victron setting by the way,You can look up victrons teaching seminars,where they talk about "tail current function" .
Mahalo brother! I just disabled that! I'll follow up with a short to verify that did the trick. Aloha!🤙
Yes this should get it tuned up!
Definitely got to crack that battery open and monitor the cells with a volt meter when aproaching a higher absorption voltage. See how much of an imbalance you have. I have a couple115ah 48v packs like this from golf cart batteries(free) that developed a massive imbalance. I replaced the bms with Bluetooth jk units. They were so out of balance that the bms couldn't keep up. Had to manually balance by shorting high cells with a resisor for several hours each pack. They both are doing great now 100+ days in, the jk bms is doing a great job keeping them balanced.
Bob, you might have your Absorption Duration set to "Adaptive" Under Expert settings, this way Victron CC decides how long absorption should be, by monitoring usage and adapting absorption to it.
If the charge current drops below the specified tail current for one minute, the absorption stage will end and the float stage will begin. This setting can be disabled by setting the tail current to zero.
Mahalo brother! I just looked and tail current was set to 1.8a. I just disabled that. Brain moving slow! Aloha!🤙
Yep, if you set your float voltage a bit higher and or the cut off wait time higher it also can smooth this out.. I like that end amps/tail current setting for days the battery gets a lot of charge quick because the tail is real short when this happens.. This way you can top it off safely and have that extra safety gate to protect the cells because sometimes that absorb time is just too much..
If it’s full all the time I wouldn’t worry it’s probably the battery protection…Have fun and take care of the surgery wounds.
Mahalo brother🤙
Time to start swapping out components. In this case we have 3 to try. One at a time. Only way to find the answer. Best of luck in recovery!
Back to work, slacker! No resting on those laurels, lol!
More power to ya brother!
Haha! I'm tryin brother! Aloha!🤙
Bob i hope some of these suggestions from other work ....otherwise i would just swap out another controller and put that one on a system that is working ok now. It might rule out some thing's. Hope you heal up fast my friend👍
Mahalo brother!🤙
Hmm. So we know for sure its 16s. But we don't know if the BMS is mis-configured. You have a handle on the issues, the question is whether the target voltage is high enough for the BMS to even begin balancing the cells. If it isn't, then it will start messing up again 6 months from now as the balance goes wonky.
Looks you already addressed the tail current issue, definitely leave that turned off. It won't hurt the cells to hold the charge target ~2 hours.
You'll have to decide what you want to do next. If it were me, I would set a higher charge target and every day the battery hits full I would look at the graph and find the voltage it is able to achieve just before it goes ballistic due to a BMS disconnect. Write that down and see if it is able to make progress over time.
It really depends on how much time you want to spend diagnosing this battery.
-Matt
When I had a huge over charging of individual cells my BMS would kick in and stop charging even thought the battery was not fully charged and then the BMS stopped absorbing
Open the battery and confirm each cell is in balance. I suspect you're cells need to be balanced.
great video
Voltage Drop Test. Place a resistor at the inverter DC input. Connection at the (+) to (-)
The resistor value should be: 20 Ohms / 5 watts / with a rated voltage greater than 60 volts. 😊
Then set your charge controller to the highest values you want. This should prove successful in determining that: The battery and charge controller will function perfectly as will the power inverter. This diagnostic should prove that the power inverter erroneously sees an over voltage.
Great info brother...sounds like another test to try😉Aloha🤙
@@ProjectsinParadise808 Not great but it establishes a fundamental of voltage value control in electronic circuits. Resistor values and types can be selected more precisely later. In the olden days this was also how we co controlled motor speed. E.G. The fan motor switch would simply have no resistor to achieve high/fast, one resistor for medium speed and two resistors or a higher OHM resistor to create slow low speed. It's all just voltage control. The resistor is inexpensive and reliable but the cost is loss of voltage converted to heat. By the way, the 20 Ohm 5 watt resistor can generate up to 130f heat. Useful in many ways. The incandescent 48 volt bulb would generate light with some heat. Combining resistors with led bulbs can create other benefits like: Green-Yellow-Red to indicate high, medium, low. Or blinking for various reasons.
I am wondering why the BMS did not shut down the day when the voltage hit above 3.65vdc.. I calculated it was almost 3.7vdc per cell and wonder if the wait time for that safety is wrong.. Realistically that safety point should be set at 3.6vdc per cell and just a few seconds before it goes full stop.. The suggestion about the tail current makes sense, I have mine set to stop the absorption and go to float when the current flow into the battery is .5a.. Depending on the amount of amps hitting the battery that tipping point can be reached fast or slow different days.. My 30kw pile is set to charge at 3.5vdc per cell which is considered full battery when the amps going in drop to below that .5a limit where it drops to the float of 3.41vdc where all current stops unless there is a load and if so that power will come from the panels if available.. If not then it starts drawing from the batteries.. Going over the 3.5vdc per cell gains you little except heat and a shorter battery life.. In your battery you only gain an amp or two which is certainly not worth the trade for a shorter life.. Check out Australia Andy's channel called off grid garage on this site he has tons of tips and setup advice..
Very interesting clue. I have done many installs with Victron MPPT controllers and never had one do this with absorption time. This may be in your advanced settings in the Victron. like tail current. Set it to zero and will default to time. This may be normal to change absorption time shout to float. when charging currents below the tail current setting it will go into float. Normally I set it to zero. With questions coming up on that 48V battery BMS . You do have a 48V battery to swap out to try. That one you made with a balancer you added. This has been tested to be great. so take them 4 batteries with that blacencer and put it on that system. This will prove if that 48V BMS in powerqueen acting strange. I have a Ryobi 40V trimmer takes same battery as your mower. It came with 2 heads for trimmer. one is the line and outher has hard plastic blades that can replace. It just ripped threw heavy brush with ease , And they last a long time. I get Bamboo and outher thick weeds hear. I am still in shock how well Ryobi did and lots of videos on youtube showing this as well. But I understand your health and took care of that skin right away. very good. The SUN is our friend but also a enemy at the same time.
So it was the tail current setting. I didn't even look at that with tunnel vision going strong. Was set at 1.8a, I did cancel that back to disabled and it just finished a perfect two hours in absorption, and now if float. Jeez! Gonna blame that on CRS! Aloha!🤙
Interesting to see the various absorption values. However, if you look on power queen's site, apparently that battery is no longer offered. Additionally, having 16 cells in series and assuming you have a major imbalance I wonder if the real issue is that the battery goes into protection mode. Does that battery have ANY communication capabilities? If not, then just accept it as a free test but I don't think I would be in the market for any server style 48v nominal battery without the ability to see EACH individual cell. This is one reason why I am still using RV LiFePO4 cells in parallel / series so that I can monitor if needs be. Good content as always! Aloha from Gary in SE Michigan
That battery has a BMS controller in it that he can access via Bluetooth and see the 16 cells voltages and state of balance.. He should also be able to adjust some of the safety settings as long as the manufacturer has not locked them out..
the problem with the Reliable Electric inverters are MEANT for Lead ACid, Not lithium.
THerefor when you fully charge a lithium or LiFePO4 you will go over voltage
@@sNEAKYnIGHTmUPPET yes, they are trying to have a range compatible with both lead acid and lithium. They usually have small potentiometers to set voltage dc and ac on the PC board. They are usually glued or caulked so it has to be removed before setting.
@@WattsinWattsout not sure why you are telling ME this, I exposed the solution already. But thank you anyway
I never knew that, but sure makes sense. Mahalo brother🤙
I never knew that either...Mahalo🤙
@@sNEAKYnIGHTmUPPET I offered up the same a week or so ago.
If the cells are all balanced and topped off, is the bms sending it to float early?.
EV charging stations do. Rapid charge to 80% then It takes a longer time period to get it to 100%.
Try turning off the PV input to drain the battery down a bit then see if it gives you the 2 hr of absorption.
The BMS in the battery is just a safety device the Victron charge controller handles all the charging parameters..
Last update Victron introduced AI to our controllers. They now have a mind of there own.
Just kidding 😊
Haha! I did turn off the tail current at 1.8a, back to disabled...and perfecto! Worked as it should. Held for two hours, and then to float. This one was error on me, for sure. Aloha brother🤙
@@ProjectsinParadise808 I need to go check mine now. Now have two 100/50's. The new one I just set to the Victron's default setting.
Maybe time for another battery in parallel.
Have you ever contacted victron about this situation
It looks like it when in to adaptive asotbtion mode its in expert mode or the temp conpesation is enabled
I had to reset my vectren charge controller once
I don't know as I don't use absorption just target voltage and float as float allows for charging and load if there is enough sun.
Per a couple suggestions , I just disabled the tail current. I had forgot to even look at that. Aloha!🤙
Is it totally unheard of for one of those Victron units to go haywire? Sounds like you're to the point of losing sleep over this system's mystery. Be well.
Ah shoot dave....I think I gotta chalk this one up to operator error. I did like a few pointed out and turned off the tail current which was set at 1.8a. It worked perfectly then. I just didn't see that buddy. Aloha!🤙