Cards We Were Wrong About in Commander | 10 Cards We Misevaluated in EDH (Part 3)
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Sometimes we get a card totally WRONG, and we're here to share 10 more examples from our own experiences in Commander! Time to own up to our mistakes!
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Mad respect for people who can own up to being wrong and changing their mind on something. This applies to all things, not just MTG. You guys rule!! Thanks
I don’t know why you feel the need to suck them off. Every RUclipsr owns up to their own small mistakes because they get content and losers like you telling them how great they are.
You're welcome 🍻
It has always been ok to change ones mind.
@@corsel6911 exactly, people acting like it’s some amazing thing to change your mind
@@entertainmentinc9735 yup. But now so many people need to champion people who change their minds like they are comparable to firefighters or something.
I blame 'Like' buttons
I LOVE ghostly prison effects in lower power games. The number of times i hear “well i would attack him but i want to play my spells instead” is uncountable. Who wants to be the guy to spend their mana on attacking while the other 2 opponents build a board? Nobody. Thats who.
Glad others are extolling the virtues of Ghostly Pilferer. Vastly underrated, and I run it in reanimator decks; it's amazing to wait for your table to be tapped out and then on your opponent's end step, discard Elesh Norn, reanimate it main 1. On top of that, it draws cards and can swing in for chips. It's great.
Ao in Teysa can be backbreaking because it gets any kind of permanents, really helps to set up combos. I’m glad you guys mentioned it as a case where Ao is still really good. I haven’t used it to pump up a board of weenies yet but I’m sure that’ll happen since Teysa makes a bunch of tokens
Love it in my Teysa deck, although it usually whiffes hard 🤣
Was comin here to comment this myself. Ao is GAS in Teysa, it digs super deep
Ghostly prison effects can sometimes be seen as pseudo damage effects like goad. If the creature wants to attack and it can’t at you, you’ve effectively done an opponent damage
Augur of Autum is a serious card if you are a multi-land deck (azusa, exploration, etc) that also cars about creatures.
When you pull 2 lands off the top then play a creature, you will feel very differently about the card, but it is a very specific style of deck. She can basically draw you 2-4 cards per turn. You don't even have to care about creatures much, you just need to not have tons of non-land / non-creatures.
Yup, I'm using it in my 50 creatures Meren aristocrats deck, and it also works insanely well with Sylvan Library. Pay life for non-land non-creature spells, and stack land on top, creatures below.
Fully agree with all of your points. I even play it in my Tasigur deck that cares about knowing the top card to decide if activating Tasigur is the right decision. It is almost to good every time it hits the battlefield.
The problem isn't that it's bad, it's that there are 100 cards I would rather run making it my 101st option. Bolas's Citadel, Oracle of Muldaya, reality chip and Sensei's top are all generically better for these purposes (granted top is a little off in terms of functionality but if it comes down to 1 last cut guess which one I'm choosing).
As for just playing creatures or just lands (assuming you don't need both): Vivien, Monster's Advocate or Radha, Heart of Keld are some other options
Then there's the question of - Would I rather just play card draw in that slot?
I'm sure there are niche decks where you want a critical mass of topdeck manipulation, casting, etc, whether from cards that want you to be able to see the top of your library, or cast cards from zone besides your hand, but on average I'd say it feels like the 101st card 90+% of the time.
@@Shiek200 It really depends on your deck. Imo this card is tailored to creature heavy decks (especially low cmc) - and in those, it's much better than any of the cards you have mentioned. It's somewhat like Meathook - it's meh in general, but excellent in decks that can use it to it's full potential.
Mana dork Dork+Augur+3/4 power 4 or less cmc Commander, and you have Coven from turn 3. That's roughly 95% chance to get 1 extra card with 50% creatures + 30% lands and normal draw, and circa 75% for two, 60% for three and so on. More with additional draw and library manipulation (staples like fetch lands, vampiric/worldly tutor, Volrath's Stronghold, Sylvan Library etc).
In two colour creature decks I value it above Phyrexian Arena and even Dark Confidant.
I run it in my Katilda GW Human's Tribal deck. It's great since coven is almost always on, and it helps churn through the ol' deck.
I’m really surprised you guys don’t like augur of autumn, the coven ability is super easy to get and in that decks that it goes in you can play like 70% of the cards on top which usually is like 2-3 cards which is a really good rate
Shout out to elephant grass, the one mana green ghostly prison with the additional upside of black creatures not being able to attack you at all. It does have cumulative upkeep for one generic though. Performed surprisingly well for me in my upgraded kitt kanto precon
Glad to see y’all turn around on Hullbreaker Horror! I think that resculpt is an auto include for all mono blue decks. Ao I’ve tried in Millicent and I like it but don’t love the card and Toxrilll is one of the most annoying new commanders to go against, especially since most of my decks are creature based.
One of these days we'll see Grave Titan on this list, but it is not this day
Haha i was gonna totally comment that. Grave titan is legit. Flick him. Deadeye him. Bonkers in yarok. Cmon nerds take it back!!!
Grave Titan is massive value in Arumi
If grave titan was 50 cents like sun titan we might see it in a budget bomb, one can dream.
Augur of autumn is the single best card I’ve added to my karametra alluren deck in many years. It just does everything karametra and alluren want to do. It’s like wizards was thinking “karametra doesn’t take long enough turns, is there any way we can print one creature that ensures they play every card in their deck while shuffling it a million times?”
If you think of Ggostly Prison as purely defensive, you forgot that it usually makes your opponent attack someone else instead.
You two guys are truly embodying the adage "living the dream". I'm happy you guys get to do what you love every day like this! Keep up the great work!
Ao is insane as a commander if you build around it properly, I’m currently building a variation of the cedh list that was shown on playing with power and the deck is insane.
Toxrill is indeed the worst when no one has saved or drawn removal. Grounds for just bowing and scooping if that's the case.
Toxrill as commander or in the 99 has been backbreaking every time. A competitive Rhys pilot straight up conceded after I reanimated Ol Tox on turn 4.
Tbh we groan when someone drops Toxrill in our playgroup but we are usually able to get him off the field before he does anything…so much so our Toxrill player is tearing down his deck 😅
Haha, yes, love the shoutout to Radiant Solar. Sefris is my favorite deck right now and Radiant is for sure the GOAT of that deck.
Sefris has been my favorite deck since I built it, and I can't disagree with Beezy... if my Radiant Solar got Grasped, it would be 10% less effective... Solar is part of almost all of my combo wins...
I knew I was onto something! 😂
Absolutely agree. Radiant combined with Phyrexian Reclamation or Tortured Existence feels like I have a 90% win rate if it's not answered IMMEDIATELY.
I was medium on Rise of the Dark Realms myself despite playing a graveyard landfall critical mass deck. I realized that even with my own yard casting it was an instant win (even if I couldn't attack or target my opponents), and then after playing it and winning just off what was in my opponents' yards, it stays in now. If I'm playing with my wishboard group, I will usually leave it there and put Fae of Wishes in the deck. Primo.
Toxrill is a pure beast bro. I run dimir infect with proliferate. Its nasty. 80% of time ita fast enough where toxi stays in command zone
I love augur of autumn. It always works well for me - letting me play a ton more cards off the top per turn.
12:50 hullbreaker is a combo piece. you play it with Archaeomancer or eternal witness to get back a ttime warp and then cast a creature to bounce Archaeomancer back and recast again. you take a million turns.
Augur of Autumn is busted in my Yorvo deck. I play over 40 creatures and tons of mana dorks that can produce a lot more than one mana, so when im churning through the top of deck, drawing cards from beast whisperer/guardian project, and getting yorvo bigger and bigger, its hard to call it just an "average" card. It takes a decent board state to really capitalize on its ability, but I have a good chance of hitting a creature on the top.
It's even more busted in a Nikya of the old ways deck. I only have one non-creature spell in mine so there's ~60-63 creatures. With the commander out it's very easy for your board to explode each turn, and a few of those creatures will be big threats.
Cards I was wrong about; Clackbridge Troll. Oh wait, I wasn't wrong about Clackbridge Troll, it's the best card ever. Who doesn't wanna give their opponent 3 0/1 goats
Ghostly Prison works really well in Sythis since that deck tends to be low on blockers and requires little bit of time to get there so it helps buy time to get that critical mass of storming enchantments and tokens.
Ghostly Prison and Propaganda together is an amazing combo.
Zara also really loves resculpt because you can use it after dealing damage with the stolen creature to give yourself a 4/4 and stop it from going back to thier hand.
Hullbreak Horror is exemplary of how I love to play magic. Early Timmy Plays followed by late game, critical mass Spike plays. I like muldrotha turbo reanimator, breya artifact rube golberg machines, etc. I love making decks that operate like they're spike decks, but the main win condition is just playing big dumb value cards and winning through value engines, with the only ACTUAL spike-y combo wins being critical mass combos, like Hullbreak Horror, displacer kitten, etc (combo-y cards that end up needing 4-5 pieces to win).
Augur of Autumn I haven't yet tried more than once, when I did play it in the Leinore precon, it functioned similarly to Oracle of Mul Daya for the deck in the sense that I got a free draw by playing the land and while I don't get to play a bonus land, I can play creatures off the top, your average board is three medium sized creatures or 2 smaller ones buffing up one large one, so it worked fine that one time, probably not good in much else
Skylar human tribal
I get the larger point you're making about Ao - most of the other dragons don't require to be built around to provide value, but the ceiling for Ao feels a lot higher, especially Aoshnod's Deathmantle
Joe Cherries, that's an awesome shirt! You guys rock. Keep up the good content!
I'm not saying Ao is super powerful, but white has a couple of very good FREE sac outlets in Fanatical Devotion and Martyr's Cause. Having sac outlets in your white deck is important so that you can still get skullclamp triggers while you have an anthem out.
Ghostly prison is brilliant in holding attacks back in a light paws deck. Or any Voltron where you aren't building an army that can chump block or you intend to be light on fogs
I have to agree with you both on Ghostly prison. It’s usually pretty meh, but in some appropriate places, it’s phenomenal for keeping you alive.
I have it in Feather, and in that deck (or any Boros voltron deck) it does a lot to keep you from dying from a wide board state
I don't feel bad winning or losing to Rise and thats what I appreciates about it.
Still waiting for a turnaround on Krosan Grip. Nothing stops shenanigans quicker than a Kgrip.
I'm surprised this is only part 3 in this series.
Duelist's Heritage is the best ghostly prison variant.
Ao is only good (imo) if it's paired with Nim Deathmantle and Ashnod's Altar.
Personally, I still don't think Resculpt is that good. I would rather play a bounce spell than give my opponent a 4/4.
Either way, big ups on admitting when you're wrong! Being able to humble yourself like this is quite a respectable trait
Ghostly Prison + ensnaring bridge + archon of absolution would be a complete board stopper.
5 of these cards are either in my deck or maybe board for Raffine, and adjustments have been made accordingly. Thanks bois!
Hullbrraker Horror is hilarious to Ninjitsu in using Satoru, they sit there expecting a mindleech mass or something, then HH comes in and ruins their whole gameplan.
I've long been a fan of Propaganda/Ghostly Prison. I don't run them in every deck, but I *do* run them in decks that are light on creatures and/or where I may be more susceptible to attacks for some reason. I won't say it has won me games outright, but it's definitely contributed to letting me last longer than I otherwise would have (sometimes long enough to pull out a win.)
I don’t know how ya missed goblin anarchamancer I literally bought over 200 retro foils and and a 100 etched foils for under .25 each… they are already almost a 1$ now thanks for mentioning it I’m sure this video will help increase the demand and price
So glad to see the grave titan acknowledgment❤️
4:10 Ghostly Prison does directly advance your gameplan in the niche decks where your game plan IS to stay alive until it's a 1v1 game, like most aikido queen marchesa decks
Have you guys ever tried cEDH? I only ask because a lot of your takes on cards being banned/not good are the very opposite of that realm of EDH. I think a lot of your opinions on some cards would change when you see that the broken stuff is just as fun as "salt of the earth" power level. I love both sides of edh but, as a legacy player at heart cEDH helps me scratch that itch.
Bet that old video has a tidbits about you guys... How about you bring that back, even just once a week. Keep up the good content!
Very fair reassessments, i was surprised you skipped toxrill and hullbreaker at the time to be fair.
I'm still not high on ghostly prison effects but i prefer a higher power meta which is perhaps the reason.
"It's dimir for no reason..... Now I'll give the exact reason that it's two color."
The last few years have been tough but I thought things were finally turning around. Then the Nitpicking Nerds told me that Ghostly Prison is actually a playable card and now I don't know what's real anymore.
Woah woah woah, only Joe said that! I am holding out 😂
@@NitpickingNerds too late, already built a competitive pillow fort deck
Ao the Dawn sky is very good if you have alot of 1 drops to play around in your deck & u make him the Largest cost card in that deck & have ways to bring him back from the grave. All possible with black & white Life gain + counters, with a splash of green.
I know this is kinda random, but thanks for helping me during the lockdowns. Your content helped to keep me sane.
Really glad we could help :)
I may have gotten every other moxfield blind guess wrong, but I know I got this one right: 13:19
Wrong again
Don’t forget sunforger. You guys gave it like a D or C when its one of the best equipments in the game. Gives boros card advantage and ramp with free equips. Has essentially 2 card infinite turn combo with mistveil plains because other two pieces can be fetched from sunforger.
Teferi’s Protection (or Angel’s Grace, but that’s a lot narrower) and chance for glory/final fortune?
@@chrysalistening yup
Ghostly Prison and Propaganda are SOO good in mid-power metas in decks that are durdling without building up big boards of creatures where otherwise you just eat a bunch of random attacks every turn cycle and quickly you're at a huge life
disadvantage, 1 card completely shuts that down and makes you basically immune easy "value" attacks that would otherwise be free for the opponents.
I guessed 9:20 for the moxfield ad, so I was pretty close!
Not even mentioned about Ghostly Prison: It doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is best when used alongside other taxing effects. Opponents want to curve up and play the game, not pay 4+ to attack you, which they will have to if they have 2+ creatures or you have 2 or more of these effects in play.
I have Propaganda in my Mizzix & Nekusar decks. It is very powerful and allows you to play the solitaire combos you are built for.
Holy moly Beezy, you sound so incredibly mad and salty at the end. 🤣 *Sefris couldn't have hurt you that bad could she?*
What preworkout do you guys use before the show? I love the energy every time.
They're in Florida so cocaine.
@@RickyChops The description says they're in New York
@@RickyChops upstate New York so most likely meth. Kidding of course they’re running on pure love for the game.
Augur of Autumn really shines in my Galea deck by allowing me to top deck lands into play, hopefully leading to an aura/equipment to be played next.
The real reason hull
Breacher is banned is because he was breaching a hull when hullbreaker horror broke it.
You guys thought Toxrill was bad because he's Dimir. I knew Toxrill was going to be good because he's Dimir. He's a huge KOS target, so of course they put him in blue for protection. If they hadn't, he'd probably stink.
That being said...I really wish Gorex, the Tombshell was Dimir and got pumped for each creature you exile. I feel like that deck would be so much fun.
Is there ever a time when you would hit your own creature/artifact with Resculpt? Maybe in response to someone stealing your commander or Sol Ring?
That, or shutting down your own commander with something like a transformation effect.
Hullbreaker Horror is a bomb. Does work in any blue deck. It's a 7 mana tydespout tyrant...
Thank you for the happy birthday gentlemen
yeah I put toxrill in my araumi deck even though it doesn't do anything when encored because it was just such a good reanimation target and most of the time would win me games
Imo Ghostly prison/propaganda are good in almost any deck fighting against fast and wide board states. Definitely very playable if it fits your groups play style.
Radiant Solar is good in any blink deck.
Grave titan. Hold my beer.
I hate playing against Toxrill. I knew it was going to be bad. I helped my brother create his Toxrill deck, then I want to quit when he plays it. It’s rare, but when he gets a 3 card combo, to turn all lands into swamps, then all swamps into 1/1 creatures. Then they all die… I just scoop.
Have you taken another look at Ledger Shredder?
It's a card I've had in a deck for a about a month now, still testing it out though!
you guys make my favorite magic content.
Resculpt is awesome! Artifact removal in mono blue? Sign me up
I know it’s Niche but I learned to love Ao, The Dawn Sky in my Tayam deck. Really helpful with all the reanimate low cost cmc shenanigans :)
I’d play Ao in Felisa? Lots of Sac outlets in that deck, put a bunch of counters on it and sac, stack the triggers so you get a bunch of 4/3 inklings
I love the dragon shield sleeve crafter ad I got while watching this video. It’s hilarious. But I don’t think I’ll buy a set as long as they keep their logo on each sleeve.
There is a push and pull in a meta between lots of spot removal pressuring creatures to have impact on ETB(or cast) and then the resulting saturation of that kind of creature making the spot removal much worse.
If you can find a meta at a certain point of that cycle, Toxrill is backbreaking. At another point it may pressure your opponents to think twice before spending the only piece of removal they have in hand at any given point, or discourage them from tapping out from the threat of slamming Toxrill, but overall the Slug Overlord becomes more of a risk if it can often be sniped before triggering once or twice.
Given, if its in your reanimation target package or you can otherwise afford to hold up counter magic or have Greaves or something to protect it, then it'll still be a punishing house.
I used to love putting games away with Contagion Engine in casual constructed and even janky Commander tables, but even that used to be a groan-inducer so I'm apprehensive about slotting in Toxrill anywhere as I size up getting a friend group off the ground for the odd chill Commander night.
Familiars aren't auto includes but their good in specific decks like Sunscape in yall's favorite deck chulane.
There’s actually a Ao list online for high power that’s actually nuts
I think fable of the mirrorbreaker is quite underrated in commander, given that it’s doing really well in standard and pioneer. (Or maybe my isshin deck gives me bias)
It's been pretty good for us too! We like that card
I play both ghostly prison and propaganda in my queza deck and it saved me many times
Everytime i play hullbreaker horror with Volo, my opponents just quit EVERY time i get 2 copies of it 🤣 he goes crazy
I still don't understand the hate for Ghostly Prison - I mean, sure it's annoying to play against but otherwise it's pretty powerful card. It's only 3 mana and in a long run can give you a lot of advantage. Paying 2 mana just to attack with ONE creature is often enough to discourage opponents from attacking you completely. Whats the point of paying 2, 4 or whatever mana when you can attack someone else or don't attack at all and gain advantage by doing something else with your mana?
I play a mill deck. If you be able to "FLASH" Rise of the Dark Realms it's great, it's included to the 99 but not my go to card. It lacks Haste, you have to wait for the next turn. Torment of Hailfire for (7)BB is a juicy card. The decks I play in my LGS are toned up and yet when in my meta it's a grind. You have to include cards the besides Rifts the likes of Ulamog, Praetors, Extra Turns and Expropriate. But if I go to another LGS 20 miles away, games are finished less than an hour. My point if players understand what the cards do, they can easily assess what the player is trying to do. The cards may be common, but they do something big for the deck. So, it's being remove when it enters the battlefield. Removal is for RARES and MYTHICS only. There are players who does look the board state. They only care about theirs and the flashy cards that they just traded. Until it's too late, the guy went off 7-8 cards combo using common junk cards.
16:32
haha! My upgraded green-white Coven Counters Precon does exactly that, thanks to upgrade suggestions you guys did! (almost milled out my friend last time we played, was 1 mana short of doing that glorious combo)
this being said, even that my deck doesn't want this card
I need to know what Joe ate before recording this video to make his tongue blue.
13:23 New combo, who dis?
Toxrill is the best card you should not recommend anytime to anyone. Its like a pure salt when build proper way (one slug, 10 mana rocks and 25 counterspells).
I've gotten huge work out of augur of autumn in my ghalta deck
Can we get a video about best reanimation targets for each colour?
Did you guys not consider rise of the dark realms in a dimir mill deck? Brainstorm it to the top of the deck, cast it with your life with bolas citadel. I mean 9 mana is way too much to actually have to cast, but 9 life? I’d pay that everyday of the week
Toxrill is disgusting! Not only does it act as a board wipe on a creature, it goes infinite with Iso/Rev combo, draw your whole deck and win with Lab Man/Thoracle
Ghostly prison/propaganda is massive when the table is goaded. It means people end up swinging everything into someone else, even the player who goaded sometimes.
Is that going to become the signature pose when you talk about you opinion? I hope it's not ever changing like opinions cause that pose is pristine. Mox field ad at 5:47
Hullbreaker Horror is crazy, 10/10 for Blue Mindgames. I don't think I have ever lost a Hullbreaker Horror once I bring it out since it can also just return spells to owners hands, ie: procrastinate removal, tutors, whatever. I love using a Panharmonicon to double up triggers or Flash in Stunt Double and make them another Hullbreaker Horror because what is better than 1 Hullbreaker Horror? 2 Hullbreaker Horror's!
I've kind of wondered if Thing in the Ice/Awoken Horror is Hullbreaker Horror, either way I do enjoy the flavor of both being in my FBLTHP deck :P
Ngl, i think if you're a creature based green deck, augur just replaces courser of kruphix
I too was wrong about Larrry the lobster. That card just straight up wins games.
So we know that Amber is a Green Legendary Cat Creature. But what is Mana Cost/P&T/Abilities?
14:04 infmana/omnitions + hullbreaker+ double trigers = game lock XD
Still waiting on "Cards Amber Got Right/Wrong", it'll be a top vid
Joe pulled a Tom Holland's "with great power comes great responsibility" with his "new world view" 😂