Smyth Busters: Will Excess Bullet Setback Blow Up Your Gun?
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- An old nugget of reloader wisdom warns that too much bullet setback can lead to your gun blowing up. Is that true? Don't worry, Brownells Gun Techs™ Caleb and Steve, aka The Smyth Busters, are on the case. Bullet setback refers to how deep the bullet sits in the cartridge case. As a round is going into the chamber, sometimes the bullet jams against the feed ramp and gets pushed deeper into the case. The bullet in turn compresses the powder charge, leading to a spike in chamber pressure that CAN be strong enough to damage the gun. At the very least, regular exposure to excessive pressures will cause accelerated wear on the gun. Worst-case scenario: your gun blows up, with collateral damage to YOU. The risk is higher with maximum-pressure handloads and commercial +P ammo, and rifle cartridges are not immune to the effects of excess bullet setback. Most guns are built to handle more pressure than the normal maximum pressure of the cartridge, up to twice as much, but it's not a good idea to chance it. The bullet jamming down into the case also causes the case to swell, which can lead to feeding problems - not something you want during a self-defense emergency! Some gun designs are more prone to feed problems caused by a bulged case, the 1911 for example, but Glocks much less so. So it's NOT a myth: Excess bullet setback CAN lead to damage to your gun or even a KA-BOOM.
So, many years ago I was a law enforcement officer. We were issued Glock 22s. Our carry ammunition was Speer Gold Dot. I’d often clear my pistol for various reasons. Often times I’d simply “re-chamber” the same round, go back on duty.
One day at our yearly in service training, we were told to shoot our duty ammunition in training and we’d be given fresh ammunition before we left the range. First time I went and drew my G22 to shoot our qualifying course I had that first round sound extremely loud and it caused a malfunction. Upon closer examination, one of the frame rails slightly separated from the frame. Hence the Glock was shipped back to Glock. I learned a lesson that day.
I’d would have had a single shot pistol had I been involved in an incident. Scary.
Yep because glocks do hit a fairly steep feedramp unlike Beretta.
I was in Law enforcement for almost 20 years always just left everything in my duty belt. They left their glocks on the job and loaded and unloaded them every shift. Having known about this potential problem for years I was uneasy at best and they wondered why they had so many negligent discharges . Luckily two weeks later I got a better offer closer to home.
when i load my pistol for cary, i typically manually load it, drop the slide then insert my magazine. same with my rifle
@@xtreampb6309 bad on your extractor
@@xtreampb6309 This method you use will put more stress on the extractor as you're forcing the extractor's claw around the cartridge, whereas in normal feeding the round slips behind the extractor as it slides up the breech face finding its seat. Examine your extractor very closely for any chips.
I actually had some experience with this issue while working in Africa. I was called to investigate a negligent discharge by one of the prison guards that resulted in 2 guards being injured. Long story short, neither one had any Bullet holes in them, and there was only pieces of brass that looked to be brass casing at the scene where it happened. I emptied the rest of the magazine from the 9mm carbine and found 3 rounds that had been pushed backed into the case by constant rechambering during loading. I confirmed it when pushed the bullet out that had stopped in the barrel. When the round was fired, the excessive pressure blew the bolt back and exploded the brass case out the ejection port. The resulting premature loss of pressure resulted in the bullet not having enough gas to push it clear of the barrel. Definitely had me scratching my head at first look.
When you see Steven gets serious u know it's something important lol.
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Thanks for this video. I read something about this phenomenon in a magazine sometime in the late 1990s. When I was in Iraq we would have to load and unload our weapons every time we went outside the wire which for my team it was 4 or 5 times a week. This meant the same rounds were repeatedly chambered over and over again. Remembering that article I became concerned enough that I would hand load the round into my M16, ride the bolt forward and use the forward assist to seat it more gently than it would otherwise chamber. Everyone else looked at me like I was paranoid/nuts but I did it anyway just in case. I'm glad to finally get some vindication after all this time.
Reloading data and SAAMI standards exist for a reason. This is one of this duo’s best. Thanks!
Cartridge overall length is definitely a thing.
@@Oldmanwithagoldpan A thing with a lot of variation.
Over pressured rounds due to bullet pushback is plausible, but from my experience what is most lost is accuracy. I have shot many rounds with bullets pushed back and have NEVER seen any evidence of serious over pressure that would cause damage to the gun. No cracked cases and no primers pushed out....at all. But I did end up with a flier on the target. Is it best to remove the round....yes especially if you are on the upper cusp or the guns pressure limit.
What is the reloading data for a .45ACP with 360 grain bullets? They work in .45LC with a lower SAAMI pressure.
@@POOKIE5592 I was once told I should not keep one round in the chamber. My answer is "Two will not fit." A shell with too long of OAL will stop the rotation of a revolver cylindars. A shade off from the limits of OAL has been known to cause a malfunction in a self-loader. The tighter the tolerances in the weapon, the more likely it will happen
Even with a "solid" gun: Bullets are cheaper than firearms.
You all touched on most of the important points. I think many historical ka-booms were likely handloads, like you mentioned, and likely using fast powders. Fast powders have many good qualities.. but they also have slim margins. Take an already spicy handload of fast powder and set it back.. consequences have the possibility of being serious.
Include in your final load workup an OAL test. Load a few too long, a few kind of short, and run them over the chrono. If you have that moment where you are looking at the FPS and scratching your head... pick a different powder.
Even slow pistol powders are still very fast compared to a rifle powder. But reloads are a known issue, most manufactures tell you not to shoot reloads, even professional reloads like freedom munitions, because they have blown up so many pistols.
I always load to minimum values. So far, I have not had issues with any of my guns cycling, so I'm good with that.
I reloaded alot of 40 back in the day, and then I heard about all the people having kabooms, and it kinda put me off abit.
Im an army small arms repairer. We had a soldier that had a double feed with an m4, and just like anyone who doesn't know how forward assist works, he mashed the forward assist, pushing the bullet into the case. He fired it. The whole m4 blew up.
I check my rounds when im putting them in my mags. I've seen brand new commercial 9mm that is pushed back right out the box.
Kenosha Kid probably the only person to even benefit from forward assist.
I had a Galil cobbled together by Century Arms. Bullets liked to hit too low on the feed ramp pushing bullets back. I was having problems blowing primers and deforming case heads. Finally figured out the receiver was milled incorrectly which made the magazine sit too low. No more CAI made junk.
I got a factory 9mm round once with a large piece of brass broke off.
Yeah NOT what we are talking about here.
@@DS-gt1ft What do you mean "we"? You weren't part of this 2 years ago when this was posted 🤣
A year or so ago I bought some rounds form a well known on line sales place and out of 1000 rounds there were 7 that were visible to the eye, a lot lower than the others. I set them aside and then took a micrometer and measured them and they were out of spec by a long shot. This made me go through and measure all of them and found 4 more that were also out of spec. This taught me to be sure and at least look at all new loads no matter who they are from. BTW I did send an email to the company and got no answer so I quit buying from them. Just be sure to check!
I'd love to know which company this was
freedoms ???
@@Palo_Duro gotta be Winchester white box
Freedom Munitions?
So why does he intro the video by saying, “Today, we are going to look at the myth…..”. And then it becomes clear that ITS NOT A F**CKING” myth! Dumb shit
When I worked in corrections, this was an issue. Same round gets chambered over and over when officers relieve each other on post. Had to constantly check top rounds and have the armorer swap them out when they were noticeably set back.
Hornady seems to be pretty prone to this, from my experience. Also, I’ve heard that .40 in particular, is one round you need to pay attention to. Many .40 pistols are basically built on a 9mm frame and the .40 caliber is toward the upper limit of what the frame can handle, already. The increased setback and pressures can cause some serious issues on those pistols.
If I unchamber a round for dry fire or cleaning, etc…I’ll cycle my rounds in my magazine. My unchmabered round becomes my first round I put in the mag (last to be used).
Yeah I do the same but not after one chambering, if I chamber the same load a few times I will move it to the bottom of the mag. I rarely unchamber the round in my pistol so it takes several years before that's ever an issue though.
I wonder if the nickel plated cases that Hornady uses are more prone to this because of the slickness of the nickel case.
@@tubeonline629 that makes me feel better about ending up with brass cases. That started during the plandemic.
I usually leave my home defense/carry guns chambered, but when I do unload them I compare the extracted round to a fresh one. If I can notice setback to the point I know it's not just a tolerance issue, into the range box it goes. And when I load them, I ride it forwards so it doesn't impact the feed ramp very hard.
Most of my handgun shooting over the past forty years has been with a revolver -- and revolvers don't do this. In fact, revolvers have the opposite problem for some of the same reasons. Recoil tends to pull the bullet *out* of the case mouth, and if a round stays in the cylinder longer than five shots (as might happen if you shoot three or four rounds and then reload the fired chambers, several times -- a real possibility if you're practicing tactical shooting, or if you carry the gun for snakes on a ranch or small game hunting) the bullet can potentially pull out far enough to interfere with the forcing cone and lock the gun up. This isn't dangerous in terms of blowing up the gun, but in a defensive situation it can cost you your life.
It's called "jumping crimp," or a "crimp jump," or "jump crimp."
Crimp jumps are most likely to happen with +P type loadings, particularly in lightweight revolvers, or with very poorly made ammunition.
The main distinction from bullet "Set Back," is that it is the recoil energy from firing the pistol that causes the un-fired rounds to jump their crimp, whereas the setting-back can happen to the chambered round, merely from chambering in the autoloading action.
If the ammo is properly made, and within spec pressures, jumping crimp is effectively non-existent.
Rounds that may be liable to jump crimp in a lighter revolver may not jump crimp at all simply by being used in a heavier revolver, because, again, it comes down fundamentally to recoil energy, and larger pistol mass can alter the recoil dynamics.
Even with heavy bullets or +P loads, in smaller pistols, if the cartridges are properly manufacturered, jumping crimp will only be a liability after a round has been exposed to the recoil energy of c. ten (10) other cartridges being fired. To be on the safe side, one could halve that and say around five (5) firings.
So to eliminate the prospect, one needs simply to take some care when loading up their cylinder. In other words, if you have a five-shot revolver, for example, and you fire two rounds that day to, say, kill some vermin animals, you simply reload the two empty chambers whilst ensuring that the second reloaded chamber is the one resting in line with the forcing cone: what would have been cartridge number three to be fired in the last full cylinder now automatically becomes the first cartridge to be fired on the topped up cylinder. Reloading in this way, no single cartridge will be exposed to the recoil energy of more than five firings, before being "first in line" and fired itself.
So crimp jump is definitely a consideration. The nice thing with revolvers though, is that the way catridges headspace in revolvers means that a true roll crimp can be applied to the cartridges. This, combined with some care and attention in loading the pistol, means that crimp jumping can be effectively eliminated as a practical concern. With autoloaders, no matter how meticulously manufactured the ammo is, there is no way to actually stop the prospect of crimp jumping and set back aside from discarding the cartridge after it has been chambered more than once, or has found itself as the c. number eight un-fired cartridge in a magazine.
I have a 1911 that WAS converted to 400 Corbon. I carried it for years and have 100's of rounds with set back!! I now carry it in 45acp! My friend carries a 357 Sig and set back is a very big problem. Thus was an EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT VIDEO!!
I've had the "boom" in .45 ACP hand loads. Bullet crimping not adequate. It was like a cannon compared to a normal explosion. My guess when round hit feed ramp, bullet pushed back into case, and KaWhamo.
So, if a round goes "KaWhamo," blame it on the bullet crimp.
Bullets are not hold in place by crimp. They are hold in place by neck tension. If you don't believe me get a soft lead bullet. Load it, and hammer it off. For a 9mm you will see .351-.353 size where the bullet is held in the case. It will tumble and keyhole.
Workarounds are using an M-die or a .38s&w expander and then sizing your coated bullets to .356 or bigger.
@@JohnLloydScharf If it goes Kaboom, then different issue. :-)
@@Sapphire1987 Good tips. "M" die sounds like a good idea. Thanks
Pressure definitely goes up as a function of bullet seating depth.
Certain loads like Hornady Critical Duty are actualky designed to be more resistant to this. The bullet is crimped in such a way that it forms a small ledge, keeping it from moving backwards into the case. I'm sure it'll still do so after enough cycles, but it's much more resistant to it.
I don't think there is a single round that is more susceptible to setback than Critical Duty. Look around online, it is not resistant in any way.
Witnessed this happen one time. Kimber .45. Jammed a home load on the feed ramp. Shooter adjusted the slide to complete loading of the round and fired it. It blew the wood grips off the firearm and she was hit in the face by multiple fragments of shrapnel. She was wearing safety glasses, but she felt it in her hands for quite some time. I don't believe it damaged the pistol mechanisms, but they did send the gun back to Kimber for evaluation. I was not aware this could happen until that day.
I like that you didn't overstate the problem. Likely, far more setback rounds have been fired than anyone ever knew about. However, if it is enough to be immediately noticeable or causes a malfunction, you need to dump that round. As Caleb said, it isn't worth it.
As far as the carry ammo part goes, you should be regularly cycling through your carry ammo for practice anyway. Shoot a magazine or two of your carry ammo periodically so that you know how it changes the operation of the pistol as verses your target rounds.
I would like to see a smythbuster on if you have to unload your defensive weapon? I rarely ever do.
I have had it happen with factory loaded ammo. My Sig Sauer p320 blew up shooting a Glaser Safety Slug that was defective. When I looked at the rest of the box , the overall lengths were all over the place.
I hope this comment gets pinned to the top, thanks for sharing 👍!
Eh thats just a Sig Feature, they fixed in in generation 6
Sig stood by their gun and replaced the grip module at no cost, even with being an ammo problem. Corbon did nothing. It was an ammo problem.
Glad I watched this..my rock island 1911 with Winchester hollow point the one I rack in and out is a quarter inch set back..now I need to look at all..waste of some expensive ammo.. it happens in just a few load and reloadd with that ammo
I was running a guy during a competition who blew up his gun. It was a stainless Taurus in .40. I know he loaded his own ammo, but he wasn't that bright, either. I assume it was an overcharge or over-seating if the bullet. (He also brought a huge box of reloaded steel and aluminum to range one day)
9 times out of 10, a weapon blowing up has to do with reloaded ammunition.
Self load .40’s + Taurus + dumb ass = 🤦♂️
I reload and I have been completely ignorant of a bullet being set back. I've shot them a few times that have been like that. Thank you for the heads up great video
Thanks for doing these, guys.
Thanks for the great video! I’ve seen billet set backs happen a lot when I’m reloading. That’s why it’s so important to measure the OAL of each round and to make sure that each round has the proper crimp.
Every time I go to the range I start out with my carry ammo to prevent this. I typically carry a single stack so I'm not wasting a bunch of good ammo. When I'm done I load fresh ammo.
@@Jbs6187 I think it's worth the money personally. I carry critical defense. Like I said, it's a single stack so I'm losing 8 rounds at a time. I'll switch to practice ammo after the first mag
@@Jbs6187 it can be expensive but it’s better then having a catastrophic malfunction when you most need the gun!
@@Jbs6187 and like this other comment I seen bullets are cheaper then a new firearm lol
Cycling carry ammo out at the range was regularly drilled into me back in my younger days by older more experienced curmudgeons who took carrying very seriously. It has two purposes, the first is to ensure YOU confirm where your sights are hitting with that carry ammo, and the second was to limit things like set back, possible oil infiltration, and powder degradation from the constant vibration and jostling.
@@striker8paints ya I think it's important to confirm that your carry ammo has the same point of impact too. I've never experienced any severe shifts between ammo in my handguns, but it's something to be aware of.
Good topic. Also another cause a lot of people may do or overlook is if you have factory boxed ammo and put them in cans and the fit is too tight when puzzle pieced in them. To maximize space, you'd be inclined to just go on and squeeze it in there bc they fit just right sometimes but may be too tight. I have a can of 9mm luger I have to check. I left them in boxes to see dates bc was several brands and they fit perfect but had to squeeze the last box in there. I thought of this potential problem afterward but actually forgot til this video. So thanks. It may save me and happened for a reason. Anyway, appreciate the videos ya'll. 🐍🇺🇸
Faster powders as can be common in pistol calibers, hotter weather with some powders, can make this even worse.
Important safety issue. Thanks for the information. Greatly appreciated.
Anything can happen at any point. It's the odds that matter. Most modern day pistols are rated for +P ammunition. If you do get a slightly over pressured standard round in a pistol, I don't see how it's going to be any more pressure than a +P.
Smokeless powder burns at a higher rate with pressure hence it is not a linear curve in increase, but a geometric. Simply put, if the pressure is higher by 10%, the burn rate increases by a magnitude curve, and then MORE pressure is a result, hence a cascade event. As +P loads are typically 10% or so higher in pressure you'll find it is NOT a 10% increase in powder, usually just 2 to 3% to compensate for the increased burning speed at that pressure point. Decreased case volume is a big factor as well.
I had this happen when a box of federal 9bple I ordered got slightly smushed during shipping. 47/50 rounds were fine, but those last 3 were set back maybe 2mm. I wouldn't have worried about it with range ammo, but given that it was +p+ I threw those 3 out. Not worth the risk.
Recently I found a 9mm round that was set back and I was like wtf that round looks short, so I compared it to another round and noticed how much it was set back. I was very curious if it would still fire but I obviously didn’t want to test it lol
Same here lol but in my case, the delivery box was damaged.
After inspection, I’ve found it !
You can still shoot them, it won't actually blow up your firearm.
I tried a new bullet design in my 45 acp for my 1911. I used the same load and OAL I had been using for years. All of a sudden I'm getting blown primers, the primer pockets were so expanded they wouldn't even hold a primer, on the ones with the primer intact it was severely flattened. Nothing was different except the bullet. It took awhile, but I finally figured out the bullet was longer and sitting deeper in the case. I went to a longer than recommended OAL and that cured the overpressure problem. The bullet sitting deeper mimicked a setback,
Were they Hornady XTP ? Due to the larger hollow point making the same weight bullet a bit longer, they usually call for a little less powder.
A very useful presentation! Yet another need for awareness. Witnessed one kaboom in a .40 Glock fired in a pistol class I was teaching. Setback was the probable cause. Chamber shattered; mag blown out; frame bowed out; slide frozen. We never found the extractor. (Probably remains in low earth orbit...) Personally, about 40 years ago, I changed the bullet in near max (still, listed in several manuals) 6mm Rem handload. The new bullet, same weight, different ogive, was seated slightly more deeply in the case. First round popped a primer in the Ruger No. 1. Stupid me! I knew better, but didn't have brain housing group engaged...
On a recent armed security position, if carrying the company issued Glock Model 22 .40 caliber, we were required to fully unload the weapon at the end of each shift and reload at the beginning of your next shift. The weapon was assigned solely to you and locked up when you were not on duty. During shift change one evening, the officer I was relieving set the round down that had just been removed from the chamber. I noticed severe set back in that round and moderate setback in the next round in the magazine. All other rounds in the magazine were fine. The rounds were immediately taken out of service when the Security Director examined them.
On the gun i keep loaded, i rarely unload it. When i do, and then re-load it with carry ammo, i ride the slide gently to chamber the round, to avoid it getting any setback, however minor. Of course i make sure the round fully chambered, doing a visual press-check.
That's some of the other issues with autoloaders: keeping loaded all of the time may prevent set back, but it also keeps the magazine under tension for very long periods, wearing them out faster. Riding the slide means the round might not be fully in battery.
I suggest manually chambering the first round if you know how to safely.
My father in law blow up his Taurus 1911 clone gun and it cut his hand pretty bad. We still thank God every day it wasn't worse than that we don't do 9mm reloads too much and when he loaded the rounds they were seated really far down like just perfect on the round parts of the poured lead ball rounds... BOOOOOOOM pretty bad gashing and a lot of gauze later he cleaned up his own hand and told me in shame...
thanks for all that info.. i been reloading 9mm for about 2 years now. and you guys answer some questions i needed answered..
Awesome. I have a whole box of rounds like this and haven’t been sure if setting them aside is necessary or not. Thanks for covering this.
One of my Hornady manuals addresses this. They intentionally set back bullets and fired them in their test fixtures to measure the pressure. As one would expect in large rifle cases it basically made no difference, but the .40 S&W ramped up to 60,000 PSI with very little setback when using 180 grain bullets.
I performed an unscientific test by chambering a Speer 230-grain Gold Dot HP, a Win PDX1 230-grain HP, and a 230-grain LRN reload ten times in my Glock 30. The before & after COL measurements showed the Gold Dot round setback .01 inch, the LRN reload also .01 inch, and the PDX1 only .002-.003 inch. I expected more setback with the reload, the case being fired an unknown number of times and a softer lead bullet, but the Speer factory load surprised me a bit. The PDX1 seemed very non-conducive to setback. All three fired with no discernible difference from untested rounds. Clearly setback occurs, but the amount will vary with firearms and cartridge makes. The question is: How much is too much?
Bought a box of Sig 9mm not too long ago and over half of the rounds were set back way too far. I haven't fired them because I wasn't sure what would happen, so thanks for this informative video.
The last 3 years I’ve noticed 2 brands of popular brass factory 115gr 9mm ammunition that have had a 10 to 20 per 500 rounds like this out of the box. I make sure to really pay attention, also 450 Bushmaster ammo is one to watch.
That’s an issue where I work. We are issued our pistols in the morning and turn them in at the end of the day. So they get loaded and unloaded a lot. With my personal carry guns I do not do this. They stay loaded at all times unless they’re being taken apart for cleaning. There is no need to be unloading and loading a carry gun all the time.
Bullet “set-back” will occur regardless of hand loading or off-the shelf. All my Glocks (G42, G26, G19 and G23) will set-back the round on chambering. As you mentioned, loading and unloading that SAME round. When ever I have to unload my chambered round, I MUST INSPECT that round and when I find it set back, to my tolerance, I place that round into a box specifically for range ONLY discharge. A lot of the time, not always, I’ll carry un-chambered for this reason. I found that chambering a single round, with the slide forcibly slamming the cartridge into the chamber and the bullet into the BORE, any round will have substantial set-back after two to three loadings. GOOD VIDEO esp for those that DO CARRY.
I've used a bullet removal mallet to move the bullet back out. If it came out too far, I use my single stage press to push it in a little. Not ideal for carry ammo, of course.
Same here, but also re-crimp, then into the range can.
Very informative, I like these videos by John Moses Browning and Johnny Cash from brownells. Thanks guys!
For carry purposes I only use factory ammo, when I see bullet set back, I put that round aside, then grab my bullet puller, and tap that bullet back out, then recrimp the case, that usually solves the problem until I rotate ammo.
At over a dollar a round I can't afford to toss a round just because the factory crimp fails.
Edit for clarification: I do this as soon as the first cartridge looks stubbier than the other ones, I don't wait until the casing gets beat out of shape.
I was in the retail store a week or two ago, was disappointed to not see you all behind the counter.
I have a little info that might be useful. As a COP, when we had kids in the house, I used to clear my service pistol every day. It was a .40 S&W Glock. I know you said that Glock pistol weren't as much of a issue but it does occur with them. I would notice the chamber round would have the bullet set back after a month or two of rechambering the same cartridge. I would put that round in a coffee cup in the safe and replace it with a new one. Every so often, I would take a impact bullet puller and use it to pull the bullet back to about the original position and use this ammo for when we requalified. Before I started doing this I had fired a couple of these and noticed a much sharper 'flip' from the pistol. There is definitely a pressure spike on a setback 40.
As far as reloading goes. I reload and have a Lee 'factory crimp die' for nearly every caliber that I reload. I have found that this is a great tool from Lee and I haven't had any noticeable setback on any ammo that I have loaded with that tool. It's an extra step but worth it. I put that die in one of my presses and after I load a batch of ammo I just run them all through that station and it really doesn't take long.
Ya'll Take Care and be safe, John
Thank you for making this video! I've been looking for this info, from a reputable/trusted source, for a couple years
Bullet setback was the reason why I stopped used Winchester Silvertips decades ago. Those bullets were too easily pushed back into the cases, especially in .45 ACP.
I noticed this problem with .380 and 9mm as well, although not quite as bad. It's possible the feed ramps and barrels were throated enough to minimize bullet setback.
It was probably caused by a combination of inadequate barrel throating, Silvertip bullets being slicker than most, and inadequate crimp/bullet pull.
Taper crimps used for semi-auto pistols may demand more caution in choosing bullets and cases. A slight roll crimp might secure the bullet, but at the risk of headspacing problems.
Nowadays many semi-auto pistols are throated more aggressively with better feed ramps. That's good if we use only standard pressure rounds. But it compromises case web support, so it could be a problem with +P and +P+ loadings.
I'd still be okay with Silvertips in revolvers, including .45 ACP and 9mm. They were reliable cartridges otherwise and expanded okay in some test media. And Silvertips are often inexpensive compared with newer hollow point designs.
been reloading rifle and pistol rounds for 20 years and i follow my books, easy on the crimp and know the burn nature of your powder
I had a Kaboom during a IDPA Competition where my Gen 3 Glock 22 with a AccuMatch Barrel and Compensator went BOOM and the Pressure of the 155gr JHP Defensive Round was do HIGH that it SHERRED OFF the Lower Barrel Locking Lug and Caused the Pistol to JAM with a LIVE ROUND in the CHAMBER and a VERY HAND way to get it since I could NOT get the SLIDE to COME BACK! Finally after about 20 minutes of working the Problem I was able to use a small Screw Driver into the Barrel Release and got the Slide to Move Forward! I still have the Pistol that still works fine with the OEM Barrel and the AccuMatch barrel and Comp. The Match was held at my Military Base Weapon Range and I had setup my pistol like a Rowland Special before there was such thing of Optics on Pistols since this happen in 2006.
I used to have a Mac 10 full auto submachinegun and it would often lodge a bullet right into the side of the chamber causing huge bullet setback. I often would fire the setback rounds and they seemed to fire normally. However I heard open bolt submachinegun were designed to fire very hot Ammo that wouldn’t be safe to fire in a normal pistol so I figured that’s why it was okay. 🤷♂️
if its a locked barrel the danger is greater or just a blow back that will open with more speed i think
I have a severely set back .40SW I keep as a souvenir and reminder that not all guns can have a round dropped directly in the chamber for +1
I got a 10mm in my pocket tray from exactly what you said…chambered and rechambered in a dw specialist stainless….love that caspian bobtail boys..who built that one..? Thanks y’all make the best common knowledge vids on here that’s so helpful…matt
You guys have obviously been on Reddit. This question was on either /guns or /reloading just a few days ago.
"If it seats it yeets!"
Chambering and unchambering over and over is likely more an issue with regular dry fire practice.
Interesting, subtle way of recommending a revolver for EDC.
I have a .40 S&W Shield I carry most of the time, and I noticed the round I kept chambering got set back a little, so I retired it until I can pull the bullet and re-seat and crimp it. Factory hollow point, by the way. I rotate different rounds though the mag now so I’m not chambering the same one over and over. Thanks for verifying my concern wasn’t unfounded.
I have a 9mm blowback upper that i put in a multi cal lower, i put the mag adaptor in but forgot to change the buffer to the longer and heavier 9mm buffer. It shot the first round but jams on the second, i inspected the round and it was set back. I didn't know that firing a round like that would increase pressure, good thing i didn't fire it. Thank you.
Just happened to me with my hollow points. Good thing I noticed it.
I`m happy Dapper Dan is back on the store shelf.
Great video fellas. Always love the info from Brownell's
I had a new ar9 build that wasn't feeding well on test fire day. At the end of the set I had a few setback rounds that I was gonna run through 1 by 1. I pulled the mag, loaded my first setback by hand, pulled the trigger, and got peppered by shrapnel. The back of the brass seperated from the rest of the case, leaving a brass cylinder in the chamber. I blew the extractor right out of the bcg too. It still ran fine after that, even without the extractor. Lesson learned!!
Winchester '94 30-30 tube magazine can set back your cheaper 30-30 shells pretty often. Expensive 30-30, not as much, but watch for it. Surprising how many folks don't know about this damage possibility.
Glock 22 in .40 S&W + Bullet setback = Ka-Boom
Nope. A writer for The Daily Caller tested this and couldn't make his .40 SW Glock explode -- or even show damage -- even after smacking the bullets with a hammer. The article is called "Battered Bullets."
@@ToastbackWhale This video gave the qualifier for +P. The Daily Caller "experiment" only used 40 S&W Speer Gold Dot( NOT +P). Testing only one load is *not* exculpatory evidence. Run some Buffalo Bore +P w/ setback in an unsupported .40 chamber; Are you confident enough to *not* use a ransom rest?
@@BlackPhillip666 im not, f that, I'll keep my hands thanks
@@ToastbackWhale As someone else noted outside temperatures could factor in, not too mention there’s always some tolerance differences in every round. Also there’s at least one comment about a Glock that said he had some damage to his firearm after doing this. So an unscientific uncontrolled bubba test vs scientific data that says some degree of set back make a 40 SW equal in pressure to a 7.62 nato do you really wanna risk it or encourage others to not heed warnings?
@@dustyak79 Go read the article. It's not as bubba as you think.
Setback is not an issue for any well made firearm, seeing as +P loads are only 10% over max pressure, while proof loads are 100% over max pressure. And you gun can handle a proofload or six.
I was buying cheap ammo that was doing this. I didn't know wether or not it was bad. I'm still kind of an early shooter and I'm glad to know this
This is especially problematic with 1911's even with polished feed ramps
1911s tend to have higher feed angles than more modern pistols so I definitely noticed the issue, especially with 10mm 1911s. Wasn’t actually too bad with my .45ACP, but 10mm had a tendency to set the bullet back a good deal.
@@gameragodzilla yeah. Especially with those 22lb+ springs for 10mm and 45 super. Not as bad with 9mm with the 13lb-15lb springs.
@@gameragodzilla You also have to remember that the 1911 was designed for .45ACP, not other calibers. So this problem will be more evident in other calibers in the 1911.
@@rbm6184 True, true. I don’t own a 9mm 1911 so I didn’t have that to compare. I did hear that 10mm is more vulnerable in general to this due to being a long but narrower cartridge than .45 ACP, which combined with the feed angle can lead to problems.
Stupidly shot a well set back 180gr gold dot 40 in my p239. Resulted in extremely increased recoil as well as the extractor skipping over the rim causing a double feed( only malfunction ever in that pistol). If you unchamber/ rechamber carry ammo regularly stand the chambered round next to a new one once a month or so…if the OAL is too short chuck the round. I’ve since read that it only takes mms to exponentially increase chamber pressure. They more you know… great post guys!
When hand loading my first 9mm , I set the boolit too deep , did the same with my first .45acp ! I have them on my shelf to remind me of what NOT to do when setting boolit .
In my experience, I have more problems with Hornaday and experiencing set back
Never had that problem, but had case where the crimp was not sufficient and while cycling in my revolver the bullet moved forward and the cylinder would not rotate. Lesson, make sure your crimp is tight enough to hold the bullet when reloading.
Maybe possible, but not my experience. I’ve reloaded for years and have accidentally set bullets too deep, put em in the range ammo bag and shot just fine. Maybe higher pressure, but make your gun blow up is an extreme case. Maybe an antique gun or something
Good info!
"When in doubt throw it out"
Better safe than sorry
I would only load "that" round if I'm dead if I don't at least try
I bought 2 thirty round 9mm Pmags that absolutely did not feed right, causing the projectiles to slam deep into the brass instead of going into the chanber, this happened with both mags, about 30% of the time. After collecting 10 damaged rounds, I left the course I was trying to qualify on and grabbed a couple factors mags, no more issues at all.
Check for setback rounds in any rifle with a tubular magazine. I found several pushed back bullets in Hornady bulleted 45 Colt reloads after emptying a Uberti 1866 magazine. Factory Hornady 45 Colt uses a short case to be able to get a good crimp. Now I only use the Hornady rounds in SAA revolvers and load with hard cast lead bullets for the rifle.
This happened to me at th hun range. One of the gun guard saw that my Billikens had some rust and told me that this could happen. I was glad he was there because it could have been a very bad situation for me
357 SIG is especially susceptible to bullet setback because the surface area of neck contacting the bullet is so small (relatively). I’ve seen it at least once with a cartridge I was loading and unloading repeatedly - thankfully I noticed it!
While breaking in new mags with a mix of dry cycling and shooting I tend to get a few rounds with minor setback. My experience is 45acp is quite resistant to it, with the copper jacked peening before noticeable setback occurs. Best use for a setback round is dry cycling once you have a few to work with (saves good ammo). This of course shouldnt be done with rifle calibers, as they tend to setback so far powder can sprinkle out (308 is really bad about it).
Thank you, never seen this issue before I owned a 1911 using hollow points not fmj
Some calibers suffer the opposite problem. The chambering of the 44 Auto Mag is especially violent because of the strong springs and heavy bullet. Even with a terrific crimp, the bullet will creep forward in the case slightly when it is stripped from the magazine and chambered. I one tried chambering then ejecting the same round repeatedly. By the fourth cycle, the round was too long to still fit in the magazine. I also measured rounds and how they reacted to the violence of recoil. The bottom round in the magazine got hammered repeatedly by the front of the magazine under recoil, and was measurably shorter than when it was first loaded into the magazine. But then it would grow again slightly when it was chambered.
Nobody ever thinks about that stuff….
I used to have the opposite problem when I carried a Colt Combat Commander XSE .45acp, the bullet would start pulling out of the case over time. Now I"m carrying an HK VP9SK and I get bullet set back in that, that's with Hornady Critical Defense ammo for each.
I noticed this ‘bullet set back’ had occurred on a factory .380ACP defensive round - I too noticed it in time and dumped that round. It caused me to change my behavior regarding the magazine I kept loaded with defensive ammo. It was with my Sig P238 which I usually practiced with ball ammo and then used a magazine which I kept loaded with defensive ammo when it came time to carry. I noticed the bullet set back after having reloaded the top round in the magazine a half dozen times. Needless to say, I stopped that practice!
Yet another reason to finish every range session by pulling out your EDC and discharge the magazine you've been carrying! Cycle out that carry ammo folks! Even the most precious ammo could be a dud or bomb after only a few weeks of vibration, routine cycling, temperature, and humidity changes when going from lockbox to body to lockbox. Out with the old and practice too. Be safe everyone.
This is good advice in general, but a bit excessive.
If you buy high quality self defense ammunition with sealed primers, and you don’t unload it every night and load it every morning (which there really is no reason to do - just leave the gun in the holster and your safe).
This applies in particular to those who go to the range relatively frequently. There is no reason to shoot expensive self defense ammunition once a week, or even once a month. Ammunition is expensive enough. Personally, I shoot carry ammunition roughly once a quarter and have had zero issues, and I know folks who change it out once a year with no issues as well.
Erroring on the side of caution is good though. Happy shooting 🇺🇸
Yeah maybe if you only train once or twice a year......
For someone like me who trains monthly that gets quite pricey quite quickly. Especially considering I don't carry garbage ammo..... I spring for the good stuff.
But if you have the money to do so then I guess to each its own.
oh the precious factor and the assumption factor (you think there is a round in the chamber)
can be deadly and is funny in a match, now I can't fine the video of that stage of a gun match
so I won't named names, but he was bitching in the start about the facts that the stage starts with an unloaded chamber, now he is no noob around firearms, stage starts he grabs the gun
an CLICK, no bang, he press the side forward and click again, he pulls the slide little back lets go and click again, with people calling to him that the chamber is empty,
now in the end he pulls the slide all the way back puts a round in the chamber and bang.
so people shoot your precious hyper ammunition and practice clearing a dud out of the chamber
@@bannedbycommieyoutube5time920 I personally keep a magazine set aside specifically for EDC ammo. I even put a blue ink mark on the bottom, so I always know that it has my good ammo.
I dump and refill it annually.
That's beyond excessive.
I had it happen on my 1911 and on my mak90 AK. I do not hand load or buy any hand loads... The 45 acp ammunition was Winchester white box and the 7.62x39 was pricey pmc bronze for an indoor range...
S&W Compact 9 2.0 for EDC. I do like they mentioned in the video, end of day unload weapon, reload mag with same ejected first round and reinsert mag into weapon. I have noticed the round retracting into the casing. I use Hornady Critical Defense 124g. This could become a little expensive replacing rounds that will not be fired due to a chance of over pressuring the weapon.
The American Rifleman did an article on this topic, some years ago. The article detailed that with a little setback, chamber pressures DOUBLE. I forget how much setback.
8 rounds of 9mm in a row, with 120 grain LRN bullet set back touching the powder charge (4 or 5 grains of medium burning rate pistol powder) cracked my Manurhin P38 slide IN HALF.
deal with it
Yes, it has happened to me. Luckily, I noticed this one and took it out. .
Ok so part 2 to the question.
What if the rifle bullet is sticking out too much?
An example would be in a bolt action. Where you gotta lean on the bolt handle to close the action.
Taught my daughter to watch her hunting ammo in her AR for this reason. She had a Winchester 7.62x39 "hog special" a week later come out at the end of the day and was 1/3 inch shorter than factory. Legit half the bullet sunk into the case almost to the curve in the copper jacket. It now sits on my shelf of "lessons learned".
I've had this with 10mm before. The PPU and, to a lesser extent, Remington and Federal brass, just won't hold the projectile where it's supposed to be and the bullets frequently get pushed in when feeding or even through rough handling. I've had very good luck with Armscor brass in 10mm and when weighing them have found them to be the most consistent of every brand I've tried.
It sucks because 10mm brass doesn't grow on trees, especially these days, and I don't want to scrap a bunch of brass but I also don't want brass that causes these kinds of issues.
Took my new AR pistol to the range last night... got my target stapled up, ears and eyes on, loaded a mag, released the bolt catch, flipped the safety off, but the trigger wouldn't pull... Checked my selector again...
As I was reaching for the charging handle was when I noticed the bolt wasn't all the way forward... Racked the handle, round popped out with the bullet pushed way back in the cartridge.
Good opportunity to remind myself that even with as much fun as it is running binary, it should be done sparingly and with full cognition of what CAN happen and that I WON'T be in a position to heed warnings should I encounter a squib or other ammunition error.
I'm also not certain if it was a manufacturing defect, feed failure (full 33-round mag), feed ramp collision, or if it happened when loading the mag with an ETS loader.
I think it was Blazer Brass. ...might have been the last of my Herters, though. 9mm.
Thank you, I have pondered this question many times. SALUTE
Had it happen to me using a pistol caliber carbine several times. The case detonated and sent shards of brass into my face. It happened twice in one mag. Aluminum case blazer ammo if I recall. Always wear eye protection. You can pick brass out of your cheek easy enough but your eye ball is a different story.
Happened to me yesterday morning. Was cycling my carry ammo and one of the rounds was set back. Felt like a 40sw when i shot it.
Blew my extractor, and safety plunger. Ripped the casing at the rim and threw metal and gunpowder into my hand. Did blow the magazine. But the slide needed to be hammered off of the frame.
I had my first experience with push back when I got some aluminum cased ammo given to me. Thankfully I noticed it just by chambering a few rounds to see if my p95 would take it ok. Some rounds would chamber fine and about half of them pushed back and deformed the case. I don't know the brand of the rounds but I hung onto them just as examples.
I personally hate aluminum cased ammo.
I've had feeding problems with it.
The only aluminum cased ammo I will use is revolver ammo.
Just my personal preference.
I like Caleb's shirt in this one.