As an African american, I thought it was a great movie. I have parents from the south, and heard of the greenbook. My grandmother owned one. So the movie was real to me in so many ways. I want to make two points. First we as family members don't know everything about another family member. There are things that we share with others, that we don't share with family. Some are completely different people around their friends or acquaintances. Two, this movie was never meant to be a history lesson. It is a movie about Tony Lip chauffeuring Don when he was out of work. It is simply telling what transpired at that time. To me they saved each other. Don changed Tony's views on blacks, and Tony got Don to relax a little. To me there's a lesson for everyone in the film.
Great comment. That's what I thought was going on when I saw the film. I live in New Zealand, so we don't have the same cultural history, but films like this are relevant in any country where different cultures come together. It's not one culture saving or being better than another, but learning from each other as individuals.
I also enjoyed the humor. That is the proper way to approach differences. For those who force the lens of white supremacy into the interpretation of this movie, please relax. A good attitude goes a long way vs. picking fights get you nowhere.
You can't spend that kind of time with anyone day after day...night after night and not develop some type of relationship. No matter the culture or differences. There's no shame in that.
There was a scene I wish they could've added that actually happened. One of the times when Don Shirley was served chicken at a dinner his driver Tony was also present. Shirley was reminding him beforehand people would notice to which he casually dismissed and when the food was served he calmly ate his chicken, with his hands. After a woman noticed that she also began to eat with her hands, and over the course of the meal others did as well. We're all the same kind of people deep down. The closer we look the more ground we find (and food we eat :D)
i dont understand why the family members of Don Shirley would say that Don Shirley never viewd Tony Lip as a friend, i mean come on if he did thats great and you guys dont know what happened all of those months they spent together.
As an African America, I enjoyed the movie with my family. I thought it was a movie about Don Shirley teaching a man to be a better person. I mean that literally what it takes to remove racism.
Tony teaches Don to be a better person too. He doesn't see Don as some bumbling pleeb because he isn't upper class and he isn't the only one who has suffered oppression.
Honestly, if Dr. Shirley and his family didn't have a strong relationship anymore they wouldn't admit it. As a fellow pianist/artist, who dedicates much of his time to his craft, I can concur that at times I do not speak to my family, and there was a point for a couple years where we did not speak at all. However, when I began having success my family all the suddenly had much more interest in me and my career. With Dr. Shirley this could have been a very similar case, and his family is now embarrassed that they neglected arguably the greatest, undoubtedly the most underrated, pianist of the 20th century.
Of course his family had a problem with the movie. Dr. Shirley gave his deepest thoughts to a stranger on how he was estranged from his family and only mentioned a brother that he was estranged from. It's like giving your input to a stranger that you will never hear from again and his voice or opinion doesn't matter anymore because he is dead. Unmerited. Doesn't matter what the family says after he is dead. The real story died with him.
Gimp Man he never said he hated his brother. Never not even in the movie. It was probably his gay life style they didn’t like for the times which happens.
@@RONJAE212003 i think this is true...however he did not maintain a relationship ith them in his latr years...it wasnt a great relationship they made him feel like he wasnt "man enough" in his words
@@johnnybatinich7260 It was money that caused Don to fall out with one of his brothers, not his sexuality (which nobody knew about until this movie and it still hasn't been confirmed by anyone besides Tony Lip). Don's family are upset simply because they were not asked to contribute to the movie about their loved one, even though they obviously knew Don much better than Tony or Tony's son did. I think I'd be a little upset if someone made a movie about my brother that took artistic liberties and didn't even consult me first.
@@sammylong3704 he simply did not want them to be involved in his stories. he was literally saying this on tape. Its funny how you cant even find them anymore. i think its cclear as day he didnt like the intentions that way..
The fact that the family used the term “due diligence “ shows exactly what happened here. Only one profession uses that term with any frequency and that’s the profession that promises relatives large cash sums if they sue film makers...
@@bigrealm8156 doc's relatives are sour for not being consulted and that statement ''due diligence explained by Alistair Taylor expresses their desire to eventually sue the filmmaker that is all they really are after.
Jassmine James That sounds like something that my family would do if I ever got notoriety for something. They’d come out of the woodwork and say stuff.
I knew doc shirley for over 15 years . I met tony as well . Doc would of had some interesting things to say about this movie . The fact that the actor who played doc was alot darker then him would gotten a funny cursed filled responce . Doc was definitely a one of a kind.....docs family was a bunch of ego driven assholes who never checked on him or bothered to call. My dad handled docs financial stuff and cooked for him as well. Yes his apartment was a godamn museum of what the hell is this doc? His only “family” was a former student of docs named Michael and his wife and children. Doc would sometimes spend holidays with them. He helped them out in others ways as well. He was very giving . Offered to pay my way through college but at the time I couldn’t commit to school. Doc had his ways and could be crude. He didn’t like being recognized when he was . But if he let you in his circle you were in, prepared to be challenged mentally and prepare to laugh. Doc was a friend and i can honestly say ? I dont think doc would of made a “big shit” over the movie. He was above such things 😁 miss you doc
A person’s family is usually the LAST source of authentic information. Better would be friends. Even wives and girlfriends can be unreliable. When a child is gifted the family is usually clueless and harmful to the child’s development.
Jan Scott That is so true. Handling a gifted child with grace is a true rarity. For better or worse though, those experiences often make them the artist they are.
Two men taught each other valuable life lessons and ultimately respected one another and became more than just employer/employee. Why does it have to have controversy?
@@hastyone9048 It's always fiction, it's a movie. That's why they said "based on a true story". Even if it were a documentary the truth does not exist, at best it is only a point of view.
Its a shame when relatives feel that they own the man, and everything he has done in life, up to a point that anything, even the truth, if dont come out of their mouths is a lie.
I saw a story about a mutually beneficial camaraderie. I believe that's what the filmmakers intended and that's what, for most of us, they achieved. I think both actors did a pristine job of delivering that simple message.
The two men traveled together for a year and a half. Don Shirley spoke about his friendship with Lip. They were friends. The production team didn't know about his Shirley's remaining family members because they weren't around him.
It's worth pointing out that the movie also doesn't stereotype its Italian characters, even while playing off those very stereotypes. Yeah, Tony's a goombah. Yeah, he's tough. Not a lot of formal education. So far, so racist. But, crucially, he avoids violence wherever possible and is actually most valued in his community for his ability to make peace. (That's what his "neighbourhood" name ["Lip"] even means.) He's works around and (tangentially) for gangsters, but steadfastly avoids becoming part of that world. He's a tough guy when necessary, but never a wise guy. His relationship with his family is warm and loving. He doesn't smack around his wife or kids. "Raging Bull", he ain't. He's got the racist reflexes typical of his neighbourhood, but he's neither stupid nor insensitive. Faced with facts and insight, he changes his mind. So I think while we're deriding the film for supposedly being just another racist chop-job, we ought to look at the whole thing. The black character is categorically not the the only victim of racism in 1962. Remember the jackass cop's reaction when Tony says he's Italian? He even uses the same word. That crap was real. The movie could have wallowed in it, too. They could have made Tony a giant cartoon character. But right from the opening scene, they never do. They nod at the stereotypes, but never endorse them. This is a movie about race, but it is not a racist movie.
It’s odd that the family members didn’t see the film and yet state emphatically that it’s not accurate. It’s a great film and it doesn’t whitewash the racism of Mr. Lip. People can change which is the beauty of this story.
I love this movie. Personally I feel the family should be thankful. I learn something from this movie. I haven't had heard of Donald Shirley or the Green Book. It was a history lesson for me. Thank God for Google and RUclips.
Wow. Thank you for this. I didn't know about any of the controversy. Didn't even know it won Best Picture. I came across the movie on Dish and am a fan of both leading actors, so I decided to watch it simply for that reason. So, coming to it without all of the trappings of Hollywood hype & controversy, here is how I perceived it. Tony was a racist and somewhat ignorant man. And thru his friendship with Don, his eyes were opened and he changed. And in the process, Don found the ability to trust others and see that people CAN change, though hard that can be for anyone. It doesn't matter if I was right or wrong in my perceptions. What matters is what each of us take from it. And I found a piece of history that I was oblivious to. Don Shirley was a musical prodigy. I'm so glad I now know about his struggle and his music. How can that be a bad thing?
Like you enjoyed the film and the changes to both characters,Don a modern musical genius with a high set of lifestyle standards had to rub shoulder with Tony Lips basic way of life and doing things.
Loved this movie! I’m glad you did a deep dive to find the truth. It’s easy to get swept away by emotional propaganda especially when dealing with race relations. It seems like the family was not privy to the actual depth of Dr. Donald Shirley and Tony Lip’s relational connection. Probably because like all of us, we make friends at work that family members are not aware of. This was a wonderful movie.
Family perspective is always a weird thing. There is almost always a biased there. Peaple want to remember peaple certain ways especially with that generation where tensions were high or family members feel slighted rightly or wrongly.
We truly understand that most stories coming out of Hollywood is Hollywood. This is a great movie I don't care for who made it was entertaining it was very informative and the world needs to see it .I never knew of this man until this film. In this day and time with the way racial tensions are between whites and blacks we need a film like this to show that our differences are still not too far away from each other and we still bleed blood ,We are Still Human we have feelings.
@@ker_possible do you have any Latino friends? White freinds? Asian freinds? If your attempt is to dig at someone with a racist trope, please find somewhere else to get your jollies. If your question is sincere, which I find unlikely, I don't see how it relates to the fact that Don Shirley himself contradicts his family's statements. I would trust the statement of someone who was there, rather than people who were not.
Peter Banderas I guess that’s a no. Most people who do have black friends give details about their longtime friendships and add "so what’s your point?" You can’t argue with someone who tells you about their black friends who’s met their whole white family. lol A long winded answer to avoid answering a simple question is usually to cover up some form of shame.
@@ker_possible firstly, please don't insult my intelligence and pretend that someone saying "I have black freinds" isn't used as a way to attack people or imply that they are racist. It's been a common trope since I was a kid. I doubt your that naive. Secondly, you dont know squat about me. You don't know that actually the answer is a yes I do. You would have no idea that besides my latino family, the only other people i spent a large amount of time with were my dad's coworkers who were almost exclusively black. The dirty jokes I learned in spanish from my family I learned the English versions from my dad's black freinds. Hell if it wasn't for the fact that I have a small number of white relatives on my dad's side, nearly every single wedding, birthday, bbq, or other party I went to until I was old enough to drive would have been exclusively brown or black. And until I moved, I spent a lot of time working with my dad's best friend, who is like an uncle to me and he is black as well. Plus there is my niece, who is also black and how she is a major part of one of my last good memories of my mom, because the three of us (mom, niece and me) celebrated our birthdays together shortly before my mom passed away. Please don't think I am foolish enough to believe you were simply asking or you had good intentions with your question. It was bait, you know it and I know it. But I noticed you didn't answer my questions, so maybe if we apply the exact same standards you put on me then maybe you are hiding something shameful.
You have to remember to, if the movie is correct, Don Shirley's family had nothing to do him for many, many year so really, what would they know about Tony Lip and Doc Shirley's relationship?
Werebilby J I was thinking the same thing like I only watched it once but I do remember a bit of him talking about the disconnect from him and his family
That's the point. We don't know if the movie is correct in regards to his family. But even if his relationship with his family was better than how it is portrayed in the movie, it doesn't mean that they know everything about this relationship. I'm close with my family but they couldn't tell you how close I am to anyone at work. However, it is a little disrespectful for the filmmakers not to reach out to his family considering he's a huge part of the film.
We already know the movie is incorrect about his family. In the movie Don claims he doesn't really have a family and only has one estranged brother. However in reality Don had 3 brothers. So straight away we know the movie isn't historically accurate regarding his famiy. How many other artistic liberties the movie took is anyone's guess. For example, my main contention is how the movie portrays Don Shirley as a highly unique and alienated individual who made unique music for a black artist of the time. In reality Don was very much part of the overall (and quite popular) classical Jazz movement of that era and he wasn't particularly isolated or unique in his character or musical style (like the movie goes out of its way to present for some strange reason).
@@dantheman4838 there in lies the controversy. Lol Typical white American revisionist history, and ppl just eat it up without question as they've been conditioned to. Perfect example is all of the ppl (predominantly white) in the comments thinking they know the life of Don Shirley based on a movie about a white guy hired to chauffeur him around for a short time. Lol
Werebilby J i knew doc personally, i worked at Carnegie hall . You are absolutely correct, his family was nonexistent in his life . We at Carnegie Hall were his family . Ive got many tales about doc. He was brilliant but there is a reason doc never became as famous as one of his friends louis armstong “Louie” doc would say when he talked about armstrong. I will keep that reason to myself . Doc was a lonely man but we had his back and he had people if he needed it . He was a solid man who offered to pay my way through any school i chose, unfortunately i didn’t take doc up on his offer . He was a good dude all in all, funny as hell . Would always great me with a “ hey bob” Lol 😂 i would laugh cause nobody but doc i would ever let call me bob!
I am a liberal but it seems some liberals do not want truth unless it conforms to their preconceived notions. A shame that Shirley's own words have been buried.
@@futurestoryteller Burying the truth is an action with no political allegiance. Both sides and every side therein have and will continue to utilize the tactic when the truth is anything less than what they had already perceived it to be.
One side in this country does it as a matter of course and I'm not going to deny that for shallow platitudes and false neutrality. Political ideologues of all stripes may utilize bad faith tactics, but on the whole if one side is the party of lies the other side should strive to be the party of truth
That isn't a "liberal" thing-- although who the hell even knows what "liberals" are now given that both the extreme left and the alt-right are calling themselves "liberals" now. It is anyone who has any sort of political ideology with an agenda. It is why a third of the U.S. are dim-minded, foaming mouthed lunatics who scream "fake news" at every bit of information they dislike hearing regardless of how obvious or well-supported it is. And all of Great Britain is standing on the cliffs-edge, teetering off with a gun to its head because slightly more than half of the country refused to listen to what the consequences of their actions would be-- because that information came from "experts" and if someone has actually studied a subject, anything they have to say about it is therefore somehow wrong. But, yes, when it comes to the agenda of "I want to find people who are being oppressed and fight against those who are oppressing them", far leftists can seemingly find victimization everywhere and go on a crusade against the supposed victimizers before they even have the full story and once they have declared their crusade, they refuse to admit they are wrong no matter what evidence is shown.
I'd find cause to disagree with you but even the neutral Poltifact takes the quotes directly from Dr. Don Shirley holds them up against the family's claim, and all but throws up their hands saying "who knows, he's dead." Washington Post doesn't seem to care if it's true either. I'm not seeing the ambiguity. I would get into the reasons it actually makes sense for both sides of the political aisle to call themselves liberal, but they're varied, complicated, and I agree that it's ultimately confusing anyway. Which is probably more the point, but I suppose this is all a digression
This movie was extremely well made. So moving, showed the racism of the south really well. White director created the black musicians world so realistic and accurate.
@@AKSourGodWatch the movie mate. All attitudes and the encounters with people from the South that Don receives in the movie are all typical attitudes that you will get, if not worse if you're an African-American driving down South
It isn't that white people shouldn't make films about black people. It is that the film should be honest that the film is not about Don Shirley. Its about Tony Lip losing his racism.
Great video!! I have shared this with my theater/FB friends. Nick V in an interview specifically states that Don asked him not to contact his family while writing the screenplay, and the 2 month tour (it was really about 18 months) was the only major "license" he took with the story - meaning some of the events did not happen within the 2 month span either.
Don Shirley and Tony Lip: The True Story Behind Their Friendship. The film 'Green Book' is based on a real-life road trip taken by black pianist Don Shirley and white bouncer Tony Lip and the unlikely friendship that resulted from the journey. Lip and Shirley's families don't see eye to eye on some of the stories Lip's son, Nick, a co-writer on Green Book, taped his father recounting numerous stories, including his road trip with Shirley. These recordings helped create the film- but they also put the focus on Lip and his interpretation of events. The pair remained friends until they died within months of each other. After their trip, Lip visited there, sometimes bringing his family as well. A psychologist, Shirley, was apparently intrigued by Lip's psychological makeup and welcomed the visits. When Nick became interested in turning their story into a movie, Lip insisted his son needed Shirley's permission. And when Shirley requested the film not be made while he was alive, Lip directed his son to adhere to those wishes. Lip and Shirley died within a few months of each other in 2013. BIOGRAPHY Sara Kettler Updated: Jan 29, 2020 Original: Dec 10, 2018
Tony Lip's son is one of the screen writers so I can understand the emphasis on his father's perspective. I however believe they are using the celebrity and shine of Don Shirley to give a bigger spot light to a man nobody would have talked about. This roadtrip didn't add anything valuable to Don, but changed Tony's life.
Thank you for clearing that up. I truly had no desire to see this film origionally, thinking it to be a Driving Miss Daisy with two men. boy was I off! Anyway, what your video did for me was twofold: it opened my mind, and made me want to view this film for all it has to offer! thanks again!
It was a movie from the perspective of Tony Lip. It wasn't a direct biopic of Don Shirley. If not for this film, Don Shirley would have remained forgotten, instead of lovingly remembered.
I think that this movie was missed titled and missed presented. This is the story of Lips perspective on that event in his life. You can replace Don Shirley with a mythical black person and it would still lips story. I guess it is not very well now that black people Had to modify their behavior accordingly when mixing with certain races. So there is a big difference between being someone’s friend and being friendly. And in his own words he said he was friendly not a friend. There is no doubt that both of these men have an impact on each other’s lives. But if black people want to tell the story of Don Shirley from a gay black man’s experience in America back in those days we would have to do it ourselves.I do believe that day is coming when we can tell the stories of who we are from our own words in our own experiences without being stereotyped into criminal,ghetto, or exceptional. Stories of the unique, complex,often muddy experience of being a black person living on this planet in a certain time period. On a lighter note. My grandmother’s grandparents used to have the old green books and the Sears and Roebuck catalog at their house. I love Sears and roebuck because you could buy a complete house a cow and address from the same place. Like today’s Amazon. Also When I looked at the archives of the green books online from 1946to about 1950 there’s a building for my hometown in there that still stands today in my old neighborhood I thought that was awesome..
Octalogic Smith no you really couldn’t, i knew doc and i met tony . That statement sucks cause even in death people still wanna place doc where they want to. Doc was to smart to famous famous . He knew too much and wouldnt stoop that low
And ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ YES I absolutely believe that these two men made an INCREDIBLE BOND and had an incredible impact on each other. How could they NOT?! ❤️ LOVE ❤️ the film!
All of this discussion is completely pointless. The real issue here is that Don Shirley was a great musician who was largely overlooked by the public. The loss is mostly for the Jazz community. I saw some videos of him playing Jazz, and, by God, the man was a real genius. He even tops Art Tatum, considered the greatest pianist that ever lived.Too bad they did not do the movie while Shirley was still alive.
See this:ruclips.net/video/DtrwLxeM8B4I/видео.htmlN my humble opinion he shows (obviously) a lot of classical influence. If you saw the movie, they tried to include this in the pieces played there.
Well, you really don't get that from the movie, namely, the true size of his talent. What we get in the movie is a watered down, Disney version of someone's idea of a great black pianist. Also, in listening to the actual audio clips of Dr. Shirley and his driver Tony included in the Deadline article, I get the sense that Shirley was far more peppery and profane than the script of the movie portrayed him. No offense to Mahershala Ali, but the real man in only four short clips sounds like a much better story than the stiff, somewhat-frightened-to-be-less-than-dignified man we see in the movie. The movie is about Tony and his road to racial understanding. That is not a bad goal for a movie. But I would love to see a movie featuring a character closer to the forthright Dr. Shirley we hear so briefly on the tapes.
Thelonious2Monk they took his story years ago maybe in 2009 I’ll say . So yeah it took forever to develop and doc wasnt as famous cause as he told me the industry is nothing but “ devils”
If it wasn't for "The Green Book," I never would have known who Dr. Don Shirley was. I have quite a collection of his music on my iPod. and FYI, I'm a "Proud African-American" as well a "New Dr. Shirley fan."
Great beautiful film, Don definitely seemed to help Tony to become a better man. I’d say Tony helped Don too but this article of racism etc is so dumb.
THANK YOU FOR THIS REVIEW. The criticism this beautiful movie got is a shame. It was about 2 people so different that helped each other. Tony wasn't a white saviour. He was doing his job. He took great pride in being a thug. And unfortunately that's what Don needed.
@@splitpitchAn approach more common than not in "historical" movies. Great example: the silly scene in the Churchill movie a couple of years ago when he rides the London Underground. That wowser made me gag.
That audio would be fair use, and cannot be removed without violating the users' rights. It's marginal, educational, newsworthy and historically significant
Here are the audio clips. deadline.com/2019/02/robert-kennedy-family-green-book-response-hear-audio-don-shirley-tony-lip-confirm-film-storyline-1202558236/
here is the link to the audio. deadline.com/2019/02/robert-kennedy-family-green-book-response-hear-audio-don-shirley-tony-lip-confirm-film-storyline-1202558236/
It just speaks Volumes at what Shirley said to the son of Lip. He shouldn’t do the film until he (Shirley) DIES! Now, we Are getting it from Nick, yet there’s a LOT of evidence he’s probably not lying. Nick said he thought Shirley’s family Didn’t exist. Shirley being gay in the 50’s and Shirley’s family being religious . . . IN THE 50’S? Ya, I can guess why he separated himself. And finally, their reactions To the movie. They basically had a hissy fit that Shirley didn’t get enough recognition, when, HE’S THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTER! They hated Shirley being depicted as a lonely man, when, Nick thought you didn’t exist, and you were never invited to meet his friend. Don Shirley had struggles with not being enough, so you’re not supporting him, you’re complaining that his role isn’t good enough. Also, isn’t it funny that “family” doesn’t show up til money’s involved? And all this talk of “THEY COULDN’T BE FRIENDS!!” It seems like someone Else is ethnist! The amount of things that Shirley does to save Lip. And this is a “white savior” film?? When Lip ain’t even white?? Lip is ITALIAN, you ethnists! I love this film. It’s a buddy film, and the best kind. They truly love each other. Like brothers. ♥️
i looked up the article and can confirm the audio files from shirley are there in the archive and the first one does explicily state exactly what was quoted in this video
If Don Shirley's family were in his life up until his death. There would be PHOTOS to prove that Don Shirley was in contact with them. When Don Shirley was kicked out of his Carnegie Apartment (after 50 years) NOT one Blood family member stepped up and took in a 80 old elder who is having his life up rooted. Don Shirley's family didn't have a relationship with Don Shirley after he became a professional pianist. If they had a STRONG BOND the mystery of the biological connection wouldn't be a topic of discussion. Tony Lip knew Don Shirley's inner secrets such as his true sexuality, the biological family didn't. The Biological Family are bitter that they themselves didn't know enough about their Brother/ Uncle to Profit off themselves. Greed and Envy😎💅🏿
The idea that this was racist or a white savior movie is absolute insanity. It's depicting the reality of life at that time, and the person being saved is the white guy. Looking at him as a savior because he was a physical protector is so juvenile and base. Tony was enlightened, and it changed his life for the better. He treated his children and everyone else so much differently because of this experience, elevating even more people with whom he came into contact. He was more refined because of Shirley and more educated. We should be celebrating the enlightenment of a racist and his life being turned around. Should we just hope that those with racial tendencies die miserable deaths or should we hope these people reach some sort of enlightenment? Which is the compassionate, empathetic, PRODUCTIVE, and most of all HUMAN choice? It's a success story where a black man elevates a white man through bonding and understanding while still being subject to the horrors of the racist south at the time. What more can you ask of someone?
Greenbook is an excellent movie and is accurate to the extent a movie about 2 dead people could ever hope to be. Im a non-white immigrant and it was the first time I ever heard the genius of Doc Shirley. Now my life is better for it. I could especially relate to how Doc was a misfit in both communities as “not white” and “not black enough”. Most minorities who navigate insular communities can relate to this. And his goal of taming inhumanity with grace and dignity is something we should all aspire to. No one “owns” a resistance movement and there is no one way for someone to fight injustice. I don’t understand the controversy here because TBH Tony Lip came out looking like an idiot goombah while Shirley was the one teaching him how to be classy. This movie did nothing but show the real and (sometimes subtle) struggles of the doc and Lip in a really nice way. I get upset when I see people turning mountains out of imaginary molehills because that dilutes the conversation about actual mountains - which do exist!!
I realize it's been several years since anyone commented but I just recently "stumbled" upon this article/video. IMHO, the family members attempting to tear down or disparage this excellent movie, are no better than these parents who attempt to capitalize on the misfortune of their children that perished, whom they have allowed the "streets" to raise. They are looking for fame and a payoff. One can only imagine what their input would be. It is sad. As a white American I viewed this movie more in the light of the good doctor rescuing Tony from his bias and ignorance than anything promoting racism. My sincere appreciation to H vs H for being truthful and honest. We need more of this to overcome the divisive narrative. Thank you!
I think the 'white saviour' narrative does a great disservice to the movie. I'm from the Far East and I found a film to be a real eye-opener. I couldn't help but acutely sympathise with the plight of the black community. At the same time, I was moved by how Tony and Don mutually transcended racial boundaries through their friendship. Isn't this ultimately what we should all strive for?
There are a lot of people out there who are very evil and make money and get power by convincing people to hate other people based purely on skin color. We have one of them as President today. This was also how Hitler came to power. What we need to strive for is judging people on their actions not their skin color. Tony and Don were both good people and when you throw good people together in close proximity for a long time they will become friends. That is human nature. But if you throw a bad person together with a good person they will never become friends no matter how much they are prodded to be. When I see a drug addict prowling cars for money for a drug fix I see a scumbag. If that drug addict happens to be homeless I am still going to see a scumbag regardless of how much the PC crowd wants me to not see it. The problem we have today from the ultraleft is they want me to ignore the thieving and homelessness just because the person happens to be a minority, which is just as bad as the ultraright who wants me to ignore the Mexican's actions and just see their skin color. Both sides just want to made decisions on the skin color alone.
Great video, thank you! Well researched and written. (Oh, and one minor note: Viggo's last name is pronounced "MORT-ensen." Not "MorTENsen." Emphasis on "Mort." Thanks again!
Typically, when someone in the family passes away, all the greedy money grabbers come out of the woodwork that were hardly present when the deceased was still alive and kicking. More notably when one is a celebrity and the family members were disinherited can create a stir to re-write history. Then, you just have to consider the source. The only surviving brother was in his eighties. His memory may have alluded him. He may have been coached by the niece. He was not on the tour with his brother. Tthoroughly
Mahershala Ali and Viggo Mortensen were fantastic in this movie. I loved how both men made one another better. It was a great story and I really enjoyed it. It's a true heroes tale and the transformation of both characters was uplifting. A person's entire life cannot be captured in 2 hours, but the production tried to capture the best of these people at certain moment in time.
Thank you for making this video! I have been wondering if the people calling Green Book a white savior movie saw the same movie I did. Tony lip is the one who is saved in the movie. It is the story of how he was profoundly changed by witnessing firsthand the indignities Dr. Shirley faced in the Jim Crow south. It is the story of how prejudice can be overcome through getting to know, and understand another person. And that is a message that us very timely for today.
LoL it is not a White savior movie... It is like racism tourism... But it is a movie about the amelioration of an Italian man with his Black Employer as the backdrop.
Fyi: You can find the don shirley clips in this article: deadline.com/2019/02/robert-kennedy-family-green-book-response-hear-audio-don-shirley-tony-lip-confirm-film-storyline-1202558236/amp/
It sounds like the film makers basically got it right...Especially, since if you watch this movie, they didn't have this big dramatic friendship. They were friendly to each other, and, especially by the end, seamed to like each other... However, I don't understand why they didn't show enough respect to the family to interview them.. Maybe, if they did, and the family said they were never friends, the person could have said we have audio saying the opposite, and we never have this controversy... It's all about showing respect...
Dr. Shirley had a distant and even estranged relationship with his family over time. I am not sure if they were aware or disapproved of his sexual orientation, as he was never officially 'out'. He had specified that the story should be told from Tony's perspective alone and not to confer with his family or anyone else who was not present on the tour. When he died, his family was not included in his will.
man, its 00:20 AM in Germany, I couldn't sleep without knowing what's true or false about the stuff the family of Doc said. Thank you for your research. You did a great job! I really listened to the audio of Doc by myself. Its 100% true what you show in this clip. Hands up for your instructions to confirm myself of it. Like & subscribed
PS i sort of can understand the yes and no arguments. But above the title, it states "Inspired by a true friendship". It does not state "Base on a true story". Of course they changed parts, they always do that to better the story for the movie. Also find it hard to read that many people complain about the viewpoint of this story. That they picked the wrong side. What read is that they did it because they simple had more background info and tape recordings of the real Tony. So that already made there work a lot easier. Its alway gonna be an issue it seems.
PS i read 1 of the articles on "Shadow and Act". I found it quite weird how they interview these people and seem all easy going. BUt then when the article was written they full backlash on them. They really destroying there own business that way i guess. This director will probably think a second time doing an interview with them.
Ai you should have saved those links... ps ever heard of the webarchive :) You can visit old websites and pages, its like backup for all websites. If your lucky those audio clips will show there :) EDIT I could resist it :) You can still hear the clips sweet check this link; web.archive.org/web/20190203084536/deadline.com/2019/01/green-book-tapes-doc-shirley-tony-lip-vallelonga-actual-audio-mahershala-ali-viggo-mortensen-1202541392/ I saved them if you need them
Okay it wasn't totally factual.but get real it basically portrayed shirley in a positive light .when the best movie of 2019 is about someone in your family be happy
Very good movie, great lessons on friendship, loyalty, understanding, growth, glad we don't live in that world, we still have to iron out some of problems we still have lurking around, love the speech about dignity made me think about MLK's civil rights message, there is much we can learn from each other, and yes Dr.Shirley (gifted genius) made Tony Lip (street smart) a better man!
Doc's family says they weren't represented accurately, yet Dr. Shirley didn't make any family member an executor of his will rather a friend and another friend as a back up. Says a lot about his family connection. www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/green-book-subject-don-shirleys-heir-speaks-first-time-1187655
Full disclosure, I haven't seen it yet. Not much of a movie goer these days. That said, I'd never heard of 'the green book' before this. I'm talking about the actual guide/survival manual for 'traveling while black' in America (and not just the south). So, for that alone, I appreciate the film. IMO there's no group of people on the planet more ignorant about American history than Americans. It's part of why we're destroying ourselves. If this movie - controversy notwithstanding - gets a few more citizens curious about our real history, then more power to it.
The only ones with racist views of this movie are (black) young racist themselves. My friends black and white born in the early 50's that lived through the changes; thought this was a heart warming beautiful movie experience. Nice to know the audio tapes prove it. A must see. 🤗
I haven't seen the movie but I admit when I heard about the film winning "Best Picture" I was a little upset. Why? Because it was a part of OUR Black history and for years I would tell people that some of these black film makers , Tyler Perry , Ophrah, Spike Lee...etc should make a movie about "The Green Book" eventhough many black people knew nothing about the book unless they were travelers, but I experienced it!!! My father had the 1956 edition which he used for our drive in 1958 from Fort Richardson in Alaska to St. Louis then to Little Rock then Jacksonville then to Hampton Virginia. My father and mother would take turns driving our 56 Mercury almost non stop for 10 days to complete the trip. That Green Book was an absolute necessity to find places to eat , rest and fuel. Thank you Mr. Green.
To me it showed all the levels of society and the false stereotypes each endures and how we're all lumped into one or another despite our defining characteristics, and how its up to us as individuals to put aside stereotypes and see the good in people no matter their ethnicity or social standing. We're all the same and good people should be cherished because they are the true minority.
All of the audio of Tony is still there. It says 0:00 on the counter like the screenshot you showed, but if you click play the time count appears and the audio begins playing. However there are no clips of Dr Shirley, so I will try the way back machine
I also loved the movie. But I find it interesting that Tony's family was substantially involved in the making of the movie (according to Mortensen) but Dr Shirley's family was clearly not approached
Tony's son, who wrote the original screeplay, got permission from his father and Dr. Shirley. It was Dr. Shirley who asked him not to contact his family. He also gave his permission for it to be made, but to wait until after his death, which was honored.
As an African american, I thought it was a great movie. I have parents from the south, and heard of the greenbook. My grandmother owned one. So the movie was real to me in so many ways. I want to make two points. First we as family members don't know everything about another family member. There are things that we share with others, that we don't share with family. Some are completely different people around their friends or acquaintances. Two, this movie was never meant to be a history lesson. It is a movie about Tony Lip chauffeuring Don when he was out of work. It is simply telling what transpired at that time. To me they saved each other. Don changed Tony's views on blacks, and Tony got Don to relax a little. To me there's a lesson for everyone in the film.
Great comment. That's what I thought was going on when I saw the film. I live in New Zealand, so we don't have the same cultural history, but films like this are relevant in any country where different cultures come together. It's not one culture saving or being better than another, but learning from each other as individuals.
Margarita Taylor well said. Thank you.
deep bow of respect
Margarita Taylor : Thank you ; it’s good to see commentary from someone with a good head on their shoulders
I also enjoyed the humor. That is the proper way to approach differences. For those who force the lens of white supremacy into the interpretation of this movie, please relax. A good attitude goes a long way vs. picking fights get you nowhere.
You can't spend that kind of time with anyone day after day...night after night and not develop some type of relationship. No matter the culture or differences. There's no shame in that.
There was a scene I wish they could've added that actually happened. One of the times when Don Shirley was served chicken at a dinner his driver Tony was also present. Shirley was reminding him beforehand people would notice to which he casually dismissed and when the food was served he calmly ate his chicken, with his hands. After a woman noticed that she also began to eat with her hands, and over the course of the meal others did as well. We're all the same kind of people deep down. The closer we look the more ground we find (and food we eat :D)
i dont understand why the family members of Don Shirley would say that Don Shirley never viewd Tony Lip as a friend, i mean come on if he did thats great and you guys dont know what happened all of those months they spent together.
@@codydryer9650 Exactly!!!💯💯❤
@@JOHNKIRBY2077 :) Thank you John Kirby
That's right.. wonderful movie...
As an African America, I enjoyed the movie with my family. I thought it was a movie about Don Shirley teaching a man to be a better person. I mean that literally what it takes to remove racism.
Indigenous aboriginal native copper colored people of Turtle Island the Niigi. African American is a misnomer-@DaneCallowat channel
Matt 24:14,42,44
Tony teaches Don to be a better person too. He doesn't see Don as some bumbling pleeb because he isn't upper class and he isn't the only one who has suffered oppression.
@@TheUnseenPath I was gonna say, tony wasn’t even a racist in the movie
@@Akeboun no but he was racially insensitive without knowledge of it because back then it was seen as "normal"
@@Akeboun He refused to drink from his own cups that black guests drank from.
Honestly, if Dr. Shirley and his family didn't have a strong relationship anymore they wouldn't admit it. As a fellow pianist/artist, who dedicates much of his time to his craft, I can concur that at times I do not speak to my family, and there was a point for a couple years where we did not speak at all. However, when I began having success my family all the suddenly had much more interest in me and my career. With Dr. Shirley this could have been a very similar case, and his family is now embarrassed that they neglected arguably the greatest, undoubtedly the most underrated, pianist of the 20th century.
I thought that it was a movie about Dr Shirley making Lip a better man
Agreed.
I know! I thought that if anyone would complain it would be Tony’s family.🤷🏽♀️ he was so dumb in the movie😂
Lol racism trumps all......the audacity to think this was about a black dude making a white dude better.
I think both man learn from each other by the end of the movie both they became better people regardless who or how
I very like this movie
Of course his family had a problem with the movie. Dr. Shirley gave his deepest thoughts to a stranger on how he was estranged from his family and only mentioned a brother that he was estranged from. It's like giving your input to a stranger that you will never hear from again and his voice or opinion doesn't matter anymore because he is dead. Unmerited. Doesn't matter what the family says after he is dead. The real story died with him.
It does sound like the family is just upset that they haven't gotten any money out of it or is resentful for some other reason.
This explains why Dr. Shirley hated his brother.
Gimp Man he never said he hated his brother. Never not even in the movie. It was probably his gay life style they didn’t like for the times which happens.
@@RONJAE212003 i think this is true...however he did not maintain a relationship ith them in his latr years...it wasnt a great relationship they made him feel like he wasnt "man enough" in his words
@@johnnybatinich7260 It was money that caused Don to fall out with one of his brothers, not his sexuality (which nobody knew about until this movie and it still hasn't been confirmed by anyone besides Tony Lip). Don's family are upset simply because they were not asked to contribute to the movie about their loved one, even though they obviously knew Don much better than Tony or Tony's son did. I think I'd be a little upset if someone made a movie about my brother that took artistic liberties and didn't even consult me first.
@@sammylong3704 ok so the recordings were him faking the funk....cmon
@@sammylong3704 he simply did not want them to be involved in his stories. he was literally saying this on tape. Its funny how you cant even find them anymore. i think its cclear as day he didnt like the intentions that way..
The fact that the family used the term “due diligence “ shows exactly what happened here. Only one profession uses that term with any frequency and that’s the profession that promises relatives large cash sums if they sue film makers...
Gonna be honest, i don't know what you're referring to.
Could you please tell me?
@@JR-dh2oq thank you
@@JR-dh2oq now kith
@@bigrealm8156 doc's relatives are sour for not being consulted and that statement ''due diligence explained by Alistair Taylor expresses their desire to eventually sue the filmmaker that is all they really are after.
Oh, wow…Good catch! I wouldn’t have noticed that!
I loved the movie.
I teared up a little at the ending. Great movie.
Same
Because your not a bigot. It was a great movie
@@thunderridge4830 same
Me too!
They had a true friendship and like a lot of family members they feel slighted because they didn’t get any money. They were true friends.
Jassmine James That sounds like something that my family would do if I ever got notoriety for something. They’d come out of the woodwork and say stuff.
I knew doc shirley for over 15 years . I met tony as well . Doc would of had some interesting things to say about this movie . The fact that the actor who played doc was alot darker then him would gotten a funny cursed filled responce . Doc was definitely a one of a kind.....docs family was a bunch of ego driven assholes who never checked on him or bothered to call. My dad handled docs financial stuff and cooked for him as well. Yes his apartment was a godamn museum of what the hell is this doc? His only “family” was a former student of docs named Michael and his wife and children. Doc would sometimes spend holidays with them. He helped them out in others ways as well. He was very giving . Offered to pay my way through college but at the time I couldn’t commit to school. Doc had his ways and could be crude. He didn’t like being recognized when he was . But if he let you in his circle you were in, prepared to be challenged mentally and prepare to laugh. Doc was a friend and i can honestly say ? I dont think doc would of made a “big shit” over the movie. He was above such things 😁 miss you doc
Good info
A person’s family is usually the LAST source of authentic information. Better would be friends. Even wives and girlfriends can be unreliable. When a child is gifted the family is usually clueless and harmful to the child’s development.
Jan Scott
That is so true. Handling a gifted child with grace is a true rarity. For better or worse though, those experiences often make them the artist they are.
Alae that or a Narcissist lol
Yeah but the screenwriter is Tony Lip's son. How does it make it less unauthentic?
Jan Scott 🖕🏾🖕🏾🖕🏾
That's what i told my sister, its the persons you spend the most time with that gives a true view unto a persons life...
Two men taught each other valuable life lessons and ultimately respected one another and became more than just employer/employee. Why does it have to have controversy?
Controversy sells papers
Even if it’s fictional it’s well-made fiction with a lot of respect for reality
@@dancegod1691 ….It’s not fiction. It’s based on a true story.
@@hastyone9048 It's always fiction, it's a movie. That's why they said "based on a true story". Even if it were a documentary the truth does not exist, at best it is only a point of view.
I went to the 'Deadline' page and I did listen to the audios... All of them. And yeah, the movie pretty much shows the true story.
Its a shame when relatives feel that they own the man, and everything he has done in life, up to a point that anything, even the truth, if dont come out of their mouths is a lie.
I saw a story about a mutually beneficial camaraderie. I believe that's what the filmmakers intended and that's what, for most of us, they achieved. I think both actors did a pristine job of delivering that simple message.
The two men traveled together for a year and a half. Don Shirley spoke about his friendship with Lip. They were friends. The production team didn't know about his Shirley's remaining family members because they weren't around him.
This sounds like bitter relatives angry because they didn't profit from a family members story
It's worth pointing out that the movie also doesn't stereotype its Italian characters, even while playing off those very stereotypes. Yeah, Tony's a goombah. Yeah, he's tough. Not a lot of formal education. So far, so racist. But, crucially, he avoids violence wherever possible and is actually most valued in his community for his ability to make peace. (That's what his "neighbourhood" name ["Lip"] even means.)
He's works around and (tangentially) for gangsters, but steadfastly avoids becoming part of that world. He's a tough guy when necessary, but never a wise guy.
His relationship with his family is warm and loving. He doesn't smack around his wife or kids. "Raging Bull", he ain't.
He's got the racist reflexes typical of his neighbourhood, but he's neither stupid nor insensitive. Faced with facts and insight, he changes his mind.
So I think while we're deriding the film for supposedly being just another racist chop-job, we ought to look at the whole thing. The black character is categorically not the the only victim of racism in 1962.
Remember the jackass cop's reaction when Tony says he's Italian? He even uses the same word. That crap was real. The movie could have wallowed in it, too. They could have made Tony a giant cartoon character. But right from the opening scene, they never do. They nod at the stereotypes, but never endorse them.
This is a movie about race, but it is not a racist movie.
This is really good insight.
It’s odd that the family members didn’t see the film and yet state emphatically that it’s not accurate. It’s a great film and it doesn’t whitewash the racism of Mr. Lip. People can change which is the beauty of this story.
I’m guessing Don Shirleys family was upset, because they weren’t included in Dr. Shirleys will...
I love this movie. Personally I feel the family should be thankful. I learn something from this movie. I haven't had heard of Donald Shirley or the Green Book. It was a history lesson for me. Thank God for Google and RUclips.
Wow. Thank you for this. I didn't know about any of the controversy. Didn't even know it won Best Picture. I came across the movie on Dish and am a fan of both leading actors, so I decided to watch it simply for that reason.
So, coming to it without all of the trappings of Hollywood hype & controversy, here is how I perceived it. Tony was a racist and somewhat ignorant man. And thru his friendship with Don, his eyes were opened and he changed. And in the process, Don found the ability to trust others and see that people CAN change, though hard that can be for anyone.
It doesn't matter if I was right or wrong in my perceptions. What matters is what each of us take from it. And I found a piece of history that I was oblivious to. Don Shirley was a musical prodigy. I'm so glad I now know about his struggle and his music.
How can that be a bad thing?
Like you enjoyed the film and the changes to both characters,Don a modern musical genius with a high set of lifestyle standards had to rub shoulder with Tony Lips basic way of life and doing things.
“Reliable Sources like the NYTimes” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Loved this movie! I’m glad you did a deep dive to find the truth. It’s easy to get swept away by emotional propaganda especially when dealing with race relations. It seems like the family was not privy to the actual depth of Dr. Donald Shirley and Tony Lip’s relational connection. Probably because like all of us, we make friends at work that family members are not aware of. This was a wonderful movie.
And don't call me Shirley.
Hahaha "surely" he didn't mean to. 😄
I just want to tell you both good luck - we're all counting on you.
You can't give me an answer for another two hours?
have you ever been to a Turkish prison?
🤣
Family perspective is always a weird thing. There is almost always a biased there. Peaple want to remember peaple certain ways especially with that generation where tensions were high or family members feel slighted rightly or wrongly.
We truly understand that most stories coming out of Hollywood is Hollywood. This is a great movie I don't care for who made it was entertaining it was very informative and the world needs to see it .I never knew of this man until this film. In this day and time with the way racial tensions are between whites and blacks we need a film like this to show that our differences are still not too far away from each other and we still bleed blood ,We are Still Human we have feelings.
People like you, with videos like these, are what make RUclips so great!
Sounds like a greedy, grasping family were angry that they didn't get a slice of the pie and wanted to hurt the film in revenge.
Do you have black friends?
@@ker_possible do you have any Latino friends?
White freinds?
Asian freinds?
If your attempt is to dig at someone with a racist trope, please find somewhere else to get your jollies.
If your question is sincere, which I find unlikely, I don't see how it relates to the fact that Don Shirley himself contradicts his family's statements. I would trust the statement of someone who was there, rather than people who were not.
Peter Banderas I guess that’s a no. Most people who do have black friends give details about their longtime friendships and add "so what’s your point?" You can’t argue with someone who tells you about their black friends who’s met their whole white family. lol A long winded answer to avoid answering a simple question is usually to cover up some form of shame.
@@ker_possible firstly, please don't insult my intelligence and pretend that someone saying "I have black freinds" isn't used as a way to attack people or imply that they are racist. It's been a common trope since I was a kid. I doubt your that naive.
Secondly, you dont know squat about me. You don't know that actually the answer is a yes I do. You would have no idea that besides my latino family, the only other people i spent a large amount of time with were my dad's coworkers who were almost exclusively black. The dirty jokes I learned in spanish from my family I learned the English versions from my dad's black freinds. Hell if it wasn't for the fact that I have a small number of white relatives on my dad's side, nearly every single wedding, birthday, bbq, or other party I went to until I was old enough to drive would have been exclusively brown or black. And until I moved, I spent a lot of time working with my dad's best friend, who is like an uncle to me and he is black as well. Plus there is my niece, who is also black and how she is a major part of one of my last good memories of my mom, because the three of us (mom, niece and me) celebrated our birthdays together shortly before my mom passed away.
Please don't think I am foolish enough to believe you were simply asking or you had good intentions with your question. It was bait, you know it and I know it.
But I noticed you didn't answer my questions, so maybe if we apply the exact same standards you put on me then maybe you are hiding something shameful.
You have to remember to, if the movie is correct, Don Shirley's family had nothing to do him for many, many year so really, what would they know about Tony Lip and Doc Shirley's relationship?
Werebilby J I was thinking the same thing like I only watched it once but I do remember a bit of him talking about the disconnect from him and his family
That's the point. We don't know if the movie is correct in regards to his family. But even if his relationship with his family was better than how it is portrayed in the movie, it doesn't mean that they know everything about this relationship. I'm close with my family but they couldn't tell you how close I am to anyone at work. However, it is a little disrespectful for the filmmakers not to reach out to his family considering he's a huge part of the film.
We already know the movie is incorrect about his family. In the movie Don claims he doesn't really have a family and only has one estranged brother. However in reality Don had 3 brothers. So straight away we know the movie isn't historically accurate regarding his famiy. How many other artistic liberties the movie took is anyone's guess.
For example, my main contention is how the movie portrays Don Shirley as a highly unique and alienated individual who made unique music for a black artist of the time. In reality Don was very much part of the overall (and quite popular) classical Jazz movement of that era and he wasn't particularly isolated or unique in his character or musical style (like the movie goes out of its way to present for some strange reason).
@@dantheman4838 there in lies the controversy. Lol Typical white American revisionist history, and ppl just eat it up without question as they've been conditioned to. Perfect example is all of the ppl (predominantly white) in the comments thinking they know the life of Don Shirley based on a movie about a white guy hired to chauffeur him around for a short time. Lol
Werebilby J i knew doc personally, i worked at Carnegie hall . You are absolutely correct, his family was nonexistent in his life . We at Carnegie Hall were his family . Ive got many tales about doc. He was brilliant but there is a reason doc never became as famous as one of his friends louis armstong “Louie” doc would say when he talked about armstrong. I will keep that reason to myself . Doc was a lonely man but we had his back and he had people if he needed it . He was a solid man who offered to pay my way through any school i chose, unfortunately i didn’t take doc up on his offer . He was a good dude all in all, funny as hell . Would always great me with a “ hey bob” Lol 😂 i would laugh cause nobody but doc i would ever let call me bob!
Thank you for making this video, sad to see this movie bashed for something its not.
I am a liberal but it seems some liberals do not want truth unless it conforms to their preconceived notions. A shame that Shirley's own words have been buried.
I don't think burying the truth is a liberal ideology.
@@futurestoryteller Burying the truth is an action with no political allegiance. Both sides and every side therein have and will continue to utilize the tactic when the truth is anything less than what they had already perceived it to be.
One side in this country does it as a matter of course and I'm not going to deny that for shallow platitudes and false neutrality. Political ideologues of all stripes may utilize bad faith tactics, but on the whole if one side is the party of lies the other side should strive to be the party of truth
That isn't a "liberal" thing-- although who the hell even knows what "liberals" are now given that both the extreme left and the alt-right are calling themselves "liberals" now. It is anyone who has any sort of political ideology with an agenda. It is why a third of the U.S. are dim-minded, foaming mouthed lunatics who scream "fake news" at every bit of information they dislike hearing regardless of how obvious or well-supported it is.
And all of Great Britain is standing on the cliffs-edge, teetering off with a gun to its head because slightly more than half of the country refused to listen to what the consequences of their actions would be-- because that information came from "experts" and if someone has actually studied a subject, anything they have to say about it is therefore somehow wrong.
But, yes, when it comes to the agenda of "I want to find people who are being oppressed and fight against those who are oppressing them", far leftists can seemingly find victimization everywhere and go on a crusade against the supposed victimizers before they even have the full story and once they have declared their crusade, they refuse to admit they are wrong no matter what evidence is shown.
I'd find cause to disagree with you but even the neutral Poltifact takes the quotes directly from Dr. Don Shirley holds them up against the family's claim, and all but throws up their hands saying "who knows, he's dead." Washington Post doesn't seem to care if it's true either. I'm not seeing the ambiguity.
I would get into the reasons it actually makes sense for both sides of the political aisle to call themselves liberal, but they're varied, complicated, and I agree that it's ultimately confusing anyway. Which is probably more the point, but I suppose this is all a digression
This movie was extremely well made. So moving, showed the racism of the south really well. White director created the black musicians world so realistic and accurate.
“Showed the racism of the south really well.” WTF?
@@AKSourGodWatch the movie mate. All attitudes and the encounters with people from the South that Don receives in the movie are all typical attitudes that you will get, if not worse if you're an African-American driving down South
Thanks for your thorough work and sticking with Don Shirley.
It isn't that white people shouldn't make films about black people. It is that the film should be honest that the film is not about Don Shirley. Its about Tony Lip losing his racism.
Great video!! I have shared this with my theater/FB friends. Nick V in an interview specifically states that Don asked him not to contact his family while writing the screenplay, and the 2 month tour (it was really about 18 months) was the only major "license" he took with the story - meaning some of the events did not happen within the 2 month span either.
The Shirley family were just upset because they didn't make money off of it! He was not close with his family during this period of time.
Don Shirley and Tony Lip: The True Story Behind Their Friendship.
The film 'Green Book' is based on a real-life road trip taken by black pianist Don Shirley and white bouncer Tony Lip and the unlikely friendship that resulted from the journey.
Lip and Shirley's families don't see eye to eye on some of the stories
Lip's son, Nick, a co-writer on Green Book, taped his father recounting numerous stories, including his road trip with Shirley. These recordings helped create the film- but they also put the focus on Lip and his interpretation of events.
The pair remained friends until they died within months of each other.
After their trip, Lip visited there, sometimes bringing his family as well. A psychologist, Shirley, was apparently intrigued by Lip's psychological makeup and welcomed the visits.
When Nick became interested in turning their story into a movie, Lip insisted his son needed Shirley's permission. And when Shirley requested the film not be made while he was alive, Lip directed his son to adhere to those wishes. Lip and Shirley died within a few months of each other in 2013.
BIOGRAPHY
Sara Kettler
Updated: Jan 29, 2020
Original: Dec 10, 2018
Tony Lip's son is one of the screen writers so I can understand the emphasis on his father's perspective. I however believe they are using the celebrity and shine of Don Shirley to give a bigger spot light to a man nobody would have talked about. This roadtrip didn't add anything valuable to Don, but changed Tony's life.
Facts!
web.archive.org/web/20190126043823/deadline.com/2019/01/green-book-tapes-doc-shirley-tony-lip-vallelonga-actual-audio-mahershala-ali-viggo-mortensen-1202541392/
Thank you for clearing that up. I truly had no desire to see this film origionally, thinking it to be a Driving Miss Daisy with two men. boy was I off! Anyway, what your video did for me was twofold: it opened my mind, and made me want to view this film for all it has to offer! thanks again!
I love this movie so much!! I’ve seen it about 5 times and I laugh..feel love..empathy and cry every time!!
It was a movie from the perspective of Tony Lip. It wasn't a direct biopic of Don Shirley. If not for this film, Don Shirley would have remained forgotten, instead of lovingly remembered.
I think that this movie was missed titled and missed presented. This is the story of Lips perspective on that event in his life. You can replace Don Shirley with a mythical black person and it would still lips story. I guess it is not very well now that black people Had to modify their behavior accordingly when mixing with certain races. So there is a big difference between being someone’s friend and being friendly. And in his own words he said he was friendly not a friend. There is no doubt that both of these men have an impact on each other’s lives. But if black people want to tell the story of Don Shirley from a gay black man’s experience in America back in those days we would have to do it ourselves.I do believe that day is coming when we can tell the stories of who we are from our own words in our own experiences without being stereotyped into criminal,ghetto, or exceptional. Stories of the unique, complex,often muddy experience of being a black person living on this planet in a certain time period.
On a lighter note. My grandmother’s grandparents used to have the old green books and the Sears and Roebuck catalog at their house. I love Sears and roebuck because you could buy a complete house a cow and address from the same place. Like today’s Amazon.
Also When I looked at the archives of the green books online from 1946to about 1950 there’s a building for my hometown in there that still stands today in my old neighborhood I thought that was awesome..
Great analysis
Octalogic Smith no you really couldn’t, i knew doc and i met tony . That statement sucks cause even in death people still wanna place doc where they want to. Doc was to smart to famous famous . He knew too much and wouldnt stoop that low
And ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ YES I absolutely believe that these two men made an INCREDIBLE BOND and had an incredible impact on each other. How could they NOT?! ❤️ LOVE ❤️ the film!
All of this discussion is completely pointless. The real issue here is that Don Shirley was a great musician who was largely overlooked by the public. The loss is mostly for the Jazz community. I saw some videos of him playing Jazz, and, by God, the man was a real genius. He even tops Art Tatum, considered the greatest pianist that ever lived.Too bad they did not do the movie while Shirley was still alive.
Can you direct me to the audio that tops Art Tatum?
See this:ruclips.net/video/DtrwLxeM8B4I/видео.htmlN my humble opinion he shows (obviously) a lot of classical influence. If you saw the movie, they tried to include this in the pieces played there.
Well, you really don't get that from the movie, namely, the true size of his talent. What we get in the movie is a watered down, Disney version of someone's idea of a great black pianist.
Also, in listening to the actual audio clips of Dr. Shirley and his driver Tony included in the Deadline article, I get the sense that Shirley was far more peppery and profane than the script of the movie portrayed him. No offense to Mahershala Ali, but the real man in only four short clips sounds like a much better story than the stiff, somewhat-frightened-to-be-less-than-dignified man we see in the movie. The movie is about Tony and his road to racial understanding. That is not a bad goal for a movie. But I would love to see a movie featuring a character closer to the forthright Dr. Shirley we hear so briefly on the tapes.
Never heard him as a jazz player....he had great chops but didn't play jazz rythmically
Thelonious2Monk they took his story years ago maybe in 2009 I’ll say . So yeah it took forever to develop and doc wasnt as famous cause as he told me the industry is nothing but “ devils”
The movie Lost Bohemia seems to have been buried, hard to find any reference to it, let alone watch it.
If it wasn't for "The Green Book," I never would have known who Dr. Don Shirley was. I have quite a collection of his music on my iPod. and FYI, I'm a "Proud African-American" as well a "New Dr. Shirley fan."
It was a good "people" movie..doesn't need to be analyzed to death!
Great beautiful film, Don definitely seemed to help Tony to become a better man. I’d say Tony helped Don too but this article of racism etc is so dumb.
THANK YOU FOR THIS REVIEW. The criticism this beautiful movie got is a shame. It was about 2 people so different that helped each other. Tony wasn't a white saviour. He was doing his job. He took great pride in being a thug. And unfortunately that's what Don needed.
It is always imprudent to get one's history education from the movies.
You will not stop tards from searching for truth in movies.
i find it best just to make stuff up.
@@splitpitchAn approach more common than not in "historical" movies. Great example: the silly scene in the Churchill movie a couple of years ago when he rides the London Underground. That wowser made me gag.
Thank you very much for dedicating so much time and energy in discerning fact from the fiction.
"It's getting to the point where a black girl can't even stab her friends anymore... " Lebron James 2021
One of the best films I’ve seen in years.
I guess you haven't seen many films, huh?
Audinos Good how?
Audinos I watched it 8 times😊
That audio would be fair use, and cannot be removed without violating the users' rights. It's marginal, educational, newsworthy and historically significant
Here are the audio clips. deadline.com/2019/02/robert-kennedy-family-green-book-response-hear-audio-don-shirley-tony-lip-confirm-film-storyline-1202558236/
johnboycanuck , thank you so much . You made it so practical !
Lmfao
RUclips violates users' rights all the time and don't care.
Did you call Deadline to ask them why they took down the Shirley audio?
here is the link to the audio.
deadline.com/2019/02/robert-kennedy-family-green-book-response-hear-audio-don-shirley-tony-lip-confirm-film-storyline-1202558236/
It just speaks Volumes at what Shirley said to the son of Lip. He shouldn’t do the film until he (Shirley) DIES!
Now, we Are getting it from Nick, yet there’s a LOT of evidence he’s probably not lying. Nick said he thought Shirley’s family Didn’t exist. Shirley being gay in the 50’s and Shirley’s family being religious . . . IN THE 50’S? Ya, I can guess why he separated himself.
And finally, their reactions To the movie. They basically had a hissy fit that Shirley didn’t get enough recognition, when, HE’S THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTER! They hated Shirley being depicted as a lonely man, when, Nick thought you didn’t exist, and you were never invited to meet his friend. Don Shirley had struggles with not being enough, so you’re not supporting him, you’re complaining that his role isn’t good enough.
Also, isn’t it funny that “family” doesn’t show up til money’s involved? And all this talk of “THEY COULDN’T BE FRIENDS!!” It seems like someone Else is ethnist!
The amount of things that Shirley does to save Lip. And this is a “white savior” film?? When Lip ain’t even white?? Lip is ITALIAN, you ethnists! I love this film. It’s a buddy film, and the best kind. They truly love each other. Like brothers. ♥️
i looked up the article and can confirm the audio files from shirley are there in the archive and the first one does explicily state exactly what was quoted in this video
“I haven’t seen the film. It’s full of lies.”
Exactly
@@joesepulveda3155 you are an idiot
If you never saw the movie, how would you know or assume it was "full of lies"?
Were u there ? I guess not so you full of shit
😂 So ridiculous.
If Don Shirley's family were in his life up until his death. There would be PHOTOS to prove that Don Shirley was in contact with them. When Don Shirley was kicked out of his Carnegie Apartment (after 50 years) NOT one Blood family member stepped up and took in a 80 old elder who is having his life up rooted.
Don Shirley's family didn't have a relationship with Don Shirley after he became a professional pianist. If they had a STRONG BOND the mystery of the biological connection wouldn't be a topic of discussion. Tony Lip knew Don Shirley's inner secrets such as his true sexuality, the biological family didn't.
The Biological Family are bitter that they themselves didn't know enough about their Brother/ Uncle to Profit off themselves. Greed and Envy😎💅🏿
My only problem is that whites were not permitted in all black bars either. In the movie, it was seen as no big deal
The idea that this was racist or a white savior movie is absolute insanity. It's depicting the reality of life at that time, and the person being saved is the white guy. Looking at him as a savior because he was a physical protector is so juvenile and base. Tony was enlightened, and it changed his life for the better. He treated his children and everyone else so much differently because of this experience, elevating even more people with whom he came into contact. He was more refined because of Shirley and more educated.
We should be celebrating the enlightenment of a racist and his life being turned around. Should we just hope that those with racial tendencies die miserable deaths or should we hope these people reach some sort of enlightenment? Which is the compassionate, empathetic, PRODUCTIVE, and most of all HUMAN choice? It's a success story where a black man elevates a white man through bonding and understanding while still being subject to the horrors of the racist south at the time. What more can you ask of someone?
The movie wasn't just about a Black man but rather how a friendship changed two men, one white and one black.
Good job! Really good job! Especially for the web-archive search.
I agree. It was a great video and archive.org is now a bookmark for me.
Greenbook is an excellent movie and is accurate to the extent a movie about 2 dead people could ever hope to be. Im a non-white immigrant and it was the first time I ever heard the genius of Doc Shirley. Now my life is better for it. I could especially relate to how Doc was a misfit in both communities as “not white” and “not black enough”. Most minorities who navigate insular communities can relate to this. And his goal of taming inhumanity with grace and dignity is something we should all aspire to. No one “owns” a resistance movement and there is no one way for someone to fight injustice. I don’t understand the controversy here because TBH Tony Lip came out looking like an idiot goombah while Shirley was the one teaching him how to be classy. This movie did nothing but show the real and (sometimes subtle) struggles of the doc and Lip in a really nice way.
I get upset when I see people turning mountains out of imaginary molehills because that dilutes the conversation about actual mountains - which do exist!!
KD Well said!
This movie I can watch 1000 times and not get old
It always amazed me how family members talk out afterwards just like into the wild
Thank you for playing the clips as well, that was really nice of you! Prick!
I realize it's been several years since anyone commented but I just recently "stumbled" upon this article/video. IMHO, the family members attempting to tear down or disparage this excellent movie, are no better than these parents who attempt to capitalize on the misfortune of their children that perished, whom they have allowed the "streets" to raise. They are looking for fame and a payoff. One can only imagine what their input would be. It is sad. As a white American I viewed this movie more in the light of the good doctor rescuing Tony from his bias and ignorance than anything promoting racism. My sincere appreciation to H vs H for being truthful and honest. We need more of this to overcome the divisive narrative. Thank you!
I think the 'white saviour' narrative does a great disservice to the movie. I'm from the Far East and I found a film to be a real eye-opener. I couldn't help but acutely sympathise with the plight of the black community. At the same time, I was moved by how Tony and Don mutually transcended racial boundaries through their friendship. Isn't this ultimately what we should all strive for?
There are a lot of people out there who are very evil and make money and get power by convincing people to hate other people based purely on skin color. We have one of them as President today. This was also how Hitler came to power. What we need to strive for is judging people on their actions not their skin color. Tony and Don were both good people and when you throw good people together in close proximity for a long time they will become friends. That is human nature. But if you throw a bad person together with a good person they will never become friends no matter how much they are prodded to be. When I see a drug addict prowling cars for money for a drug fix I see a scumbag. If that drug addict happens to be homeless I am still going to see a scumbag regardless of how much the PC crowd wants me to not see it. The problem we have today from the ultraleft is they want me to ignore the thieving and homelessness just because the person happens to be a minority, which is just as bad as the ultraright who wants me to ignore the Mexican's actions and just see their skin color. Both sides just want to made decisions on the skin color alone.
I am not a fan of Trump, but comparing Hitler to Trump's rise to power is highly ignorant.
Great video, thank you! Well researched and written. (Oh, and one minor note: Viggo's last name is pronounced "MORT-ensen." Not "MorTENsen." Emphasis on "Mort." Thanks again!
I thought the movie was a sensitive masterpiece.....outstanding acting , directing , editing , script , cinematography , soundtrack , etc.
Typically, when someone in the family passes away, all the greedy money grabbers come out of the woodwork that were hardly present when the deceased was still alive and kicking. More notably when one is a celebrity and the family members were disinherited can create a stir to re-write history. Then, you just have to consider the source. The only surviving brother was in his eighties. His memory may have alluded him. He may have been coached by the niece. He was not on the tour with his brother. Tthoroughly
The link in the description only include audio recordings of Tony Lip’s version....I want to hear Don Shirley’s version of the events...
Mahershala Ali and Viggo Mortensen were fantastic in this movie. I loved how both men made one another better. It was a great story and I really enjoyed it. It's a true heroes tale and the transformation of both characters was uplifting. A person's entire life cannot be captured in 2 hours, but the production tried to capture the best of these people at certain moment in time.
All the Don Shirley Audio has been removed from that article! Anyone know what's up? I assume his estate sued or something.
You can find the audio clips here: ruclips.net/video/0O5fuVJxLig/видео.html. (Please excuse the jumpy title boxes).
Thank you for making this video! I have been wondering if the people calling Green Book a white savior movie saw the same movie I did. Tony lip is the one who is saved in the movie. It is the story of how he was profoundly changed by witnessing firsthand the indignities Dr. Shirley faced in the Jim Crow south. It is the story of how prejudice can be overcome through getting to know, and understand another person. And that is a message that us very timely for today.
LoL it is not a White savior movie... It is like racism tourism... But it is a movie about the amelioration of an Italian man with his Black Employer as the backdrop.
Fyi: You can find the don shirley clips in this article: deadline.com/2019/02/robert-kennedy-family-green-book-response-hear-audio-don-shirley-tony-lip-confirm-film-storyline-1202558236/amp/
It sounds like the film makers basically got it right...Especially, since if you watch this movie, they didn't have this big dramatic friendship. They were friendly to each other, and, especially by the end, seamed to like each other... However, I don't understand why they didn't show enough respect to the family to interview them.. Maybe, if they did, and the family said they were never friends, the person could have said we have audio saying the opposite, and we never have this controversy... It's all about showing respect...
Dr. Shirley had a distant and even estranged relationship with his family over time. I am not sure if they were aware or disapproved of his sexual orientation, as he was never officially 'out'. He had specified that the story should be told from Tony's perspective alone and not to confer with his family or anyone else who was not present on the tour. When he died, his family was not included in his will.
well done. thx for setting the record straight
I liked this movie I thought both men played there characters beautifully. I had never heard of either man until after I watched this movie.
man, its 00:20 AM in Germany, I couldn't sleep without knowing what's true or false about the stuff the family of Doc said. Thank you for your research. You did a great job! I really listened to the audio of Doc by myself. Its 100% true what you show in this clip. Hands up for your instructions to confirm myself of it. Like & subscribed
Pretty bizar they both died the same year in the same month. Stunning movie and loved the story
PS i sort of can understand the yes and no arguments. But above the title, it states "Inspired by a true friendship". It does not state "Base on a true story". Of course they changed parts, they always do that to better the story for the movie. Also find it hard to read that many people complain about the viewpoint of this story. That they picked the wrong side. What read is that they did it because they simple had more background info and tape recordings of the real Tony. So that already made there work a lot easier. Its alway gonna be an issue it seems.
PS i read 1 of the articles on "Shadow and Act". I found it quite weird how they interview these people and seem all easy going. BUt then when the article was written they full backlash on them. They really destroying there own business that way i guess. This director will probably think a second time doing an interview with them.
Ai you should have saved those links... ps ever heard of the webarchive :) You can visit old websites and pages, its like backup for all websites. If your lucky those audio clips will show there :)
EDIT
I could resist it :) You can still hear the clips sweet
check this link; web.archive.org/web/20190203084536/deadline.com/2019/01/green-book-tapes-doc-shirley-tony-lip-vallelonga-actual-audio-mahershala-ali-viggo-mortensen-1202541392/
I saved them if you need them
Okay it wasn't totally factual.but get real it basically portrayed shirley in a positive light .when the best movie of 2019 is about someone in your family be happy
Very good movie, great lessons on friendship, loyalty, understanding, growth, glad we don't live in that world, we still have to iron out some of problems we still have lurking around, love the speech about dignity made me think about MLK's civil rights message, there is much we can learn from each other, and yes Dr.Shirley (gifted genius) made Tony Lip (street smart) a better man!
Doc's family says they weren't represented accurately, yet Dr. Shirley didn't make any family member an executor of his will rather a friend and another friend as a back up. Says a lot about his family connection.
www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/green-book-subject-don-shirleys-heir-speaks-first-time-1187655
The 4 audio clips are back on the original site, along with many more
Friendly doesn't always mean friends. It could be they were on the road and had to get along!
DeeNice681 yes but why can’t we just have the truth we had the audio and they removed it ?? Why ??
Exactly we can be polite or decent to someone who is just a colleague and not necessarily a friend...
@@DiceB we have the audio...it said they were friendly. Lol Tf
DeeNice681 they were friends , tony came by docs apt to add to this story the day the film writers came .
Full disclosure, I haven't seen it yet. Not much of a movie goer these days. That said, I'd never heard of 'the green book' before this. I'm talking about the actual guide/survival manual for 'traveling while black' in America (and not just the south). So, for that alone, I appreciate the film.
IMO there's no group of people on the planet more ignorant about American history than Americans. It's part of why we're destroying ourselves. If this movie - controversy notwithstanding - gets a few more citizens curious about our real history, then more power to it.
The only ones with racist views of this movie are (black) young racist themselves. My friends black and white born in the early 50's that lived through the changes; thought this was a heart warming beautiful movie experience. Nice to know the audio tapes prove it. A must see. 🤗
I haven't seen the movie but I admit when I heard about the film winning "Best Picture" I was a little upset. Why? Because it was a part of OUR Black history and for years I would tell people that some of these black film makers , Tyler Perry , Ophrah, Spike Lee...etc should make a movie about "The Green Book" eventhough many black people knew nothing about the book unless they were travelers, but I experienced it!!! My father had the 1956 edition which he used for our drive in 1958 from Fort Richardson in Alaska to St. Louis then to Little Rock then Jacksonville then to Hampton Virginia. My father and mother would take turns driving our 56 Mercury almost non stop for 10 days to complete the trip. That Green Book was an absolute necessity to find places to eat , rest and fuel. Thank you Mr. Green.
To me it showed all the levels of society and the false stereotypes each endures and how we're all lumped into one or another despite our defining characteristics, and how its up to us as individuals to put aside stereotypes and see the good in people no matter their ethnicity or social standing. We're all the same and good people should be cherished because they are the true minority.
All of the audio of Tony is still there. It says 0:00 on the counter like the screenshot you showed, but if you click play the time count appears and the audio begins playing. However there are no clips of Dr Shirley, so I will try the way back machine
Fuck all the bullshit, I simply loveeeeeeeeeeeed this movie. Watched it six times. The human aspect is what I adored about Green Book!
I also loved the movie. But I find it interesting that Tony's family was substantially involved in the making of the movie (according to Mortensen) but Dr Shirley's family was clearly not approached
Tony's son, who wrote the original screeplay, got permission from his father and Dr. Shirley. It was Dr. Shirley who asked him not to contact his family. He also gave his permission for it to be made, but to wait until after his death, which was honored.
Wait he is using newspapers as research material? What kind of researcher is he?
I haven't seen such an EXCELLENT👏👍👏👍 MOVIE in a very very long long time. 💚💙💗
Thank you. Excellent analysis of this GREAT FILM!!! ✌👍
Im embarrassed to tell You how many times i saw this film, but i agree with You, this was an excellent movie, luved it...
I'm writing a paper on this as a Chinese student. And your information is nothing but great help, just wanted to say a thank you🤝🙏
Well researched...Well done my friend.. Thank You...