Sobel vs. Winters: Is the Band of Brothers Feud Real or Fake?
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- Band of Brothers introduces us to Captain Herbert Sobel, a petty tyrant who was the first commanding officer of Easy Company during WWII. In the series, he develops a feud with Dick Winters, who became his executive officer. In this video, we explain how much of the Sobel vs. Winters feud in Band of Brothers is based on the true story. We also reveal additional aspects of Herbert Sobel’s feud with Dick Winters that are not shown in the HBO series about Easy Company. #bandofbrothers #ww2 #dickwinters #herbertsobel #easycompany
When I got promoted, I asked my CO for advice. He told me my job was to know when to put my arms around their shoulders and when to put my foot up their rear. As the boss, you take care of your men like you would your own family. As the boss, you work for them, for your people are the ones that are going to accomplish the mission. You care for your people, you show concern, and they will walk through fire for you.
This goes back to the old saying, You don't fire the team, you fire the coach.
He was the type of guy who would get fragged in combat
Yep
sure would. Even in the Navy in peace time decades later, we would have did stuff it the chance arose.
Nothing welds teams together than having a common object to hate. Sobel died in old age of malnutrition.
If you’re quoting Ambrose, you’re batting.500
Yes. That’s what I hear.
Schwimmer is a true actor to take this role after the popularity of friends.
I'm no Schwimmer fan, but he was amazing on this series
I kind of feel bad for Sobel now. Thanks for humanizing him.
The one thing I noticed that is never discussed….that being 1st SGT Evans. That position has a lot of influence to the CO of any unit. I suspect Evans added fuel to Sobels flawed personality.
My father was also in WW2. He came back different.
Something worth mentioning here, that isn't often covered. When Sobel was training the men in Toccoa, he was a second Lieutenant himself. He had only completed officer training a few months prior to his appointment to Easy Company. Sobel didn't get promoted to Captain until shortly after the company reached the UK. The promotion coming because of command wanting to reward him for his expert training of the men. So when Winters is writing about the "Captain", this dates the letter as having happened in the UK, not in Toccoa as the video presents. Once the men reached the UK, and Sobel was promoted, he delegated the censorship of the mail off to Winters. So, the letter wouldn't have ever been seen by Sobel at that point, as Winters was handling that aspect of duties. Remember, when the court martial happens, Winters notes that he had been censoring the mail as instructed by Sobel, prior to the latrine inspection.
Winters himself, and military historians suggest that the reason that Sobel disliked Winters, is because unlike Sobel, who was enlisted as an officer and went straight to officer training; Winters was given a field promotion by the Colonel, and wasn't required to attend officer training. In that regard, Winters wasn't up to the same "standard" that officers were expected to have, or at least, as was presented in officer training early in the war. Keep in mind, in the early stages of the war, traditions from WW1, and the inter-war period were still in effect; and young officers were trained that they were 'gentlemen', and thus of a higher station and class than their subordinates. Essentially saying they were "better than" the soldiers under their command. So, to have a young soldier suddenly promoted on the spot to an officer, went against everything that Sobel had been taught in officer training.
This is incorrect. In April 1942, four months after the United States entered World War II, Winters was selected to attend Officer Candidate School (OCS) at Fort Benning, Georgia. He met Lewis Nixon there and graduated as a 2nd Lieutenant on July 2, 1942. This was prior to Winters even being assigned to the 101st and the 506th.
Sobel had been in the prewar Army Reserve, promoting to 1st Lieutenant and being reclassified as Active Duty prior to the declaration of the war in December, 1941.
If Sobel wasn't incompetent in combat scenarios, his other undesirable leadership/personality traits probably wouldn't have resulted in his involuntary transfer from Easy Company.
Sad the way Sobel story ended. Regardless of facts presented here, he served our country. He deserves respect.
Sobel was a jerk!
He shot himself soon after I was born and died soon after I went away to college. That’s a long time to languish.
For me, the lesson here is that you have a choice on how you present yourself to the world.
May all members of Easy rest in peace whether they died in the 40’s or more recently.
He languished in a crap-hole VA nursing facility and died of malnutrition. He jumped on D-Day - and took out a German machine-gun nest. He retired a Lt. Col.. Purple Heart, Bronze Star. His family rejected him because he took a Catholic wife. He fought with his children since he objected to their vehement anti-Vietnam War stance. Rest in Peace Lt. Col. Sobel - you were unfairly done very dirty.
After all that we found out about Sobel in the video It broke my heart to hear what happened to him in the end .....
Thanks, great info.
Nice job, thank you.
Very well done.
WOW!!! Winters earned and deserved that respect!!!
Chickenshit officers make horrible leaders. Had a 1st Lieut. like Sobel. A real AH. Fortunately we had a Captain who was real good officer. I wish I could remember his name. I would write his family and tell them it was an honor and privilege to serve under him.
Except sobel did actually fight on dday and got multiple medals. The SA version of events is fake. There are multiple letters from easy company members or officers disagreeing. Or you should read the letters from sobels sister. The man was misrepresented like so many others in BoB. Also it's important to keep in mind that winters is mostly the source ppl use, which is of course biased since they didn't get on. The xo of the company had great things to say about sobel, and that his dedication was to his men
Regardless of your feelings towards Sobel, I find it disturbing that someone could die of malnutrition in a Veterans home.
That was a lesson for life in general. Think hard...
It was rough on the men having Ross Geller as their company commander ... but at least he saw to it they were well trained . They would have been all ate up if they were led by Joey or Chandler . " My God ! Could this training manual BE any more tedious . " " Aye - oh ... This spaghetti ain't nothin' like what my mudder makes . We gotta stop everything and fix the chow hall right now. "
Sobel isn't the antagonist of Band of Brothers. There are a whole bunch of Germans in those positions.
Herbert Sobel lived a tragic life, much of it his own doing.
Much of it not his own doing. His family rejected his Catholic wife, and his children took a vehemently anti-Vietnam War stance - which he objected to. BoB did him very dirty. He retired a Lt. Col. - jumped on D-Day, and was heroic in combat, taking out a German machine gun nest with grenades. Was severely neglected in some crap-hole V. A. nursing home.
Ross as a mean guy.
Couple of things: Most of what is in the BoB series comes from Ambrose book. That book is based, to a large extent, on what Winters told Ambrose. Some of the other Easy Company guys would have nothing to do with Ambrose...Spears comes to mind. Ambrose has been found to have done shoddy work in some of his other books, I would think BoB is no different. That needs to be taken into consideration with anything coming either out of the book or the TV series.
Sobel may have been a tyrant, but you have to give the guy credit. He was older...30...than any of the rest of the guys in the company...who were 18 to 24 or so. By all accounts he was not a great physical specimen. Look at some of the pics of Winters, for example, and see how fit/athletic he was. Yet Sobel never asked anything of his men, at least from a physical aspect, that he himself wasn't willing to do. He would make them run Currahee, and be with them step for step.
On the other hand Sobel was obviously petty and jealous of Winters. The court martial was very nit picky and unjust. The facts behind it are verified by sources independent of Winters accounts. I can't blame Winters for even a second if he despised Sobel. A court martial, even if you are absolved of guilt, can wreck an officers career...which I'm sure was part of Sobel's intent.
You're 100% correct. The historical record is distorted because of it. Dike, Cobb, Sobel, Blithe, and others were libelously misrepresented. Joseph Liebgott's character is so far away from reality it's amazing. Ambrose wasn't a paragon of writers integrity either. A shame that such a well produced series has so many historical flaws in it, and that so many viewers look at it as fact.
such a sad story
We all can acknowledge that Sobel’s strict trainings of EZ-Co helped them better prepared on battlefield, but his type could never be a trusted battlefield commander because fearful insecure type of people would either get killed with their subordinates or possibly face friendly fires at some point.
Helpful? No not really. Very informative and tremendously interesting though.
I doubt the salute incident happened at all. When researching a copy of The Army Register of Officers from the 1950s, I discovered that Winters and Sobel had the same date of rank to major (IIRC it was 9 APR 45). If it did happen it was a total dick move due Winters having the pinning ceremony earlier.
Sobel made Major? From what I’ve gathered is Sobel was a Capt. and Winters was a Major at the time of the incident. Is that not correct?
@@DanoMo1 Sobel finished the war as a major, and then was promoted to LTC in the reserves in the early 1950s.
I'll see if I can find a copy of the Army register showing their ranks.
I have the utmost respect for Sobel he was a trainer of soldiers, not a combat leader. He shaped Easy Company into one of the elite fighting companies of the ETO.
As an officer, Sobel was not an officer. He was k no it a leader and that’s not how you get the best out of your men
@louisdemarco7417 he was a drill SGT at best. I get what you're saying, but he did.
Sobel takeout a machinegun with grenades with 4 man well if he was the leader in that moment he did a good job i must say,
Holy bad grammar, Batman.
Not a fan of Sobel or Winters, I found Sobel a Martinet and Winters self serving. Based solely on the BOB series the two best leaders for me were in combat was Ronald Spiers and day to day activities Carwood Lipton.
There's always one.
When you actually research and read letters from other members of e company you realize that BoB, and ambrose are trash. There are so many inaccuracies furthermore no mention of the fact that sobel saw action and received medals for his actions. Sure he wasn't the best combat leader but he created easy company into what they became. Further more he was a vet who fought in ww2 honorably, he deserves our respect
I've done the research and read hordes of letters. Dramatizations are absolutely necessary in a series, which is not a documentary. Labeling the series and Ambrose trash is ridiculous precisely _because_ of reading those letters and _doing_ that research. The man almost _universally_ credited Sobel with training them. They also said he would've gotten them killed if they followed him into actual combat. That's why the mutiny of the non-comms actually happened.
@@SECRETARIATguy224 well many members of easy company criticized the book and wanted nothing to do with the series because of the lies that were told about some of the vets.
@@ermining1 That's all well and good; I've read extensively about the 501st, not just E company, and have researched non-Ambrose sources about the events. Most of the men felt that the portrayal of Sobel and Winters in the series was done very well, and the pettiness of Sobel's vendetta against Winters doesn't require Ambrose.
General McAuliffe responded to a surrender demand with "NUTS", not Dick Winters.
dick winters responded to sobel's request for the map back or pay for it with NUTS
I don't think you get the joke. 😅
Winters did too
So, it's not possible that the word can be used more than once? It was a direct reference to Bastogne.
@DonBair Sobel wanted Winters to 'Surrender' his silk map. Winters replied 'NUTS'
7:59 Holy shit look at that guy! When real life is way more Hollywood than Hollywood could ever manage.