Reversing a Minecraft Seed from a Single Dungeon
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Seed is -2208670506038581180.
This was a fun project which happened to use some of the most important seedfinding techniques currently known. This is sort of "episode 0" of a seedfinding series I want to make.
Trents tweet announcing it:
44...
KaptainWutax: / @kaptainwutax9026
Something very funny about this project which I should probably mention is that while doing it we discovered that X had actually somewhat faked his reaction to the dungeon. Certain blocks were missing which the game always places 100% of the time, proving X had indeed been there before.
Episode of X's series with the dungeon: • X124 - X's Adventures ...
If you liked this video, you might like this one:
ruclips.net/video/UtNXUMrSIxQ/видео.html
holy shit, you guys are god damn geniuses. this is actual wizzardry
How do we find the seed for MC 1.15.2, if we can currently access the world, but cannot obtain the seed through /seed?
Have you planed on posting a video o how to do this
@@AG17AG Yeah - we actually are 99% done with a pretty idiot proof tool.
Matthew Bolan OMG U are a god also dose it matter what version of Minecraft you use and if it’s modded or not
I recognise that dungeon, see you soon.
a 2b2t memer i see? XD
2b2t lol
I recognize that reference, see you soon.
2b2t?
i recognize all that, see you soon
Will Matthew Bolan be the first to get a phd in minecraft seed finding
That's something that genuinely deserves SOME kind of award
An honorary doctorate is technically possible. Using seed finding as the topic of a thesis paper to get a PhD is also possible. Having it be an actual thing you can get a PhD in seems pretty unlikely though. Yes I overanalyzed that.
@@Noromdiputs At the least, this video would serve as a decent resume for the NSA. There are all sorts of programs that use Java's RNG for things that are "secure".
not "seed finding" but in computer science and mathematics this is definitely something that can be useful. taking this from something mundane like a MC world seed and consider other "random" things in computers like password generators is an important job of those in cyber security. basically there is a whole field of mathematics dedicated to reverse engineering "random" number generation so that the security of things like encryption can be tested. though they aren't really "seeds" the concept of decrypting data with a partial encryption key is much the same concept and has a similar problem solving method to it. so data encryption/decryption IS something one can get a PhD in and reverse engineering a minecraft seed is a form of decryption, albeit not very secure for keeping data safe from cyber attacks (but this is a game's world gen seed so not really NEEDED per say)
You Sir have a fine looking profilpicture!
Some says, it's his best video, in reality, it's only the start. Road to Minecraft Seed finding classes!
neil im in. Where do i have to apply :)
At the moment i'm either understanding everything or understanding nothing.
Or perhaps a mixture of both
2020 is truly the year of the Matthew Bolan videos.
🙌👍
Oh my god, this is actually amazing, the ingenious math behind it is honestly so beautiful that I almost cried at the end of the video. Mathematicians don't get enough credit for what they do, people just assume that they just magically pull working numbers out of thin air (which is definitely not the case), and take discoveries like these for granted. The amount of work and dedication that goes into a project like this is immeasurable. Keep up the great work man, you're actually insane
ikr
Are you planning on making a video on how we can reverse engineer a seed ourselves?
The funny thing is that most people probably still wouldn't understand how to do it, even with an in depth tutorial that explains all of the math. Maybe a few math fanatics would be able to follow along, but it probably isn't as simple as plugging some numbers into a few easy formulas. Maybe I'm wrong, but even finding the coordinates of the dungeon is a challenge in its own right, let alone using precise calculations based off of the one dungeon to find an entire world seed, with no room for mathematical errors. If you make one tiny mistake in the long series of mathematical equations, and the entire seed that you get out of it is completely different. Good luck finding the error.
@@Lyreoz Bullshit. It's not that hard. You can reverse it from any naturally generated block in a world, you just need a few if you use blocks that generate often. This would be a bit more extensive.The reason it's easy with spawners is because they are so seldom to generate. This is nothing new though, reversing seeds have been done for years.
@@letsfail1228 Good luck with translating the different kinds of code.
@@Lyreoz you could eliminate all the calculation error if you had a computer program do it for you. The hard part is writing the program itself. Not only that, you also have to make it easy enough for some random kid like me to use
Matthew has already done most of the hard work reverse engineering the code
@@Lyreoz i think they could make a program that you input some dungeon coordnates and then it outputs the possible seeds, so you don't have to understand all that math
underrated. The investigation has a lot of work put into it. very underrated video and channel. Hope you grow
*shows a slideshow*
"I have something pretty exciting to share with you today."
For some reason that's amusing to me.
Hey, just wanted to say that I'm very exited for this! I still own my first Minecraft world, generated with alpha 1.0.15. Sadly, due to a bug in Minecraft, all worlds I had from that time had their stored seed corrupted. While I am a Software Engineer, I don't have the mathematical know-how to be doing something like this. Looking forward to the rest of the explanation so that I can get working on implementing it! Thanks!
This is basically my experience as well. Lost the seed for my 1st world. I've got some good technical skills, but not to this depth at all. Hoping for some more videos or tutorials on seed cracking so that more people can get involved in doing it.
Having the world should make it very easy. It' "just" a matter of analysing the game generation code (which you should be capable of) and find enough landmarks (dungeons, biomes, spawn point) and everyone of that will give you more information about the seed
Did you think of making this a software itself? Sounds pretty interesting!
Huge props on finding the seed, you gave us something we were dreaming about for years, to play on X's world. Hope your channel blows up! ;)
Educating the masses like this will either lead to world-wide chaos or a better society- and I can't figure which it'll be tbh...
Dude this is insane! Keep it up! Your videos give me hope to find my first minecraft world seed)
If anyone interesed, this is how I want to reverse that seed.
Sadly I don't have any screenshots of it, the only things I remember is:
1. It was in version 1.8.1 Beta
2. Seed starts with -38 and have a lot of number
3. Spawn point is swamp biome at Y 63 or 64
4. At the north of the spawn is river, and further is big desert, at the south is a rest of swamp biome
5. Spawn looks like small island with sand hill, 2-4 blocks high, to the East from the spawn, and small grass hill, 3-5 blocks high, to the West from spawn
6. Just under a few blocks in that small sand hill was a cave
7. World was created at least after 1.8 beta pre release was released, and before 1.9 beta
The algorithm I want to use, is:
1. Get list of all random seeds within range from 09.09.2011 to 09.18.2011 only in 12 AM to 10 PM time range (I mean, Java Random make seeds based on nano seconds time, and I created this world in that time range so...)
2. Get seeds from that list that starts with -38
3. Generate spawn point chunk and check if it's a swamp biome
4. Check if spawn point Y if 63 or 64
5. Check if spawn point is on grass block
6. Check if spawn point have these sand and grass hills
7. Check if spawn point have river in the north
8. Check if spawn point have desert further to the north
9. ???
But I think this algorithm is very ineffective, and bruteforcing so many seeds is going to take forever.
I haven't looked deeply in world generation code in 1.8.1 beta, so I think this algorithm can change a little bit.
Huge congratulations on this viral powerpoint rant! You deserve all these views! I was hoping for an example showing us the numbers all the way through the process but I guess that’s too complicated to visualise for some reason... incredibly well made video nonetheless!
I'm from AntVenom's channel and I must say that this is absolutely incredible! Thank you for all the hard work you put into this project and thank you for allowing us to play on this seed.
This project really thrills me! I would love to see how it works in more details, waiting for the next video :D
Well, looking forward to the XOR reversal algorithm! :D Good one.
Would it be possible to reverse engineer the seed for the original Yogscast survival series?
Ooh, I like this idea.
I haven't played minecraft in YEARS but this is insanely interesting to me. Saw a video on the farlands and I've been going down a youtube minecraft rabbit hole and it has been amazing
Thank a lot to you a lot because with just a couple dungeon floors and Neil's help I got a seed for my server. That moment I logged on to an untried map i was a bit shocked. Just a little bit, not enough to keep me awake right now..
Please make more videos like this I find seed theory so incredibly interesting
ooooh! that's amazing!
I'll actually try to crack another Alpha series' seed (it's a very old series popular and iconic in Poland)
( JJayJoker ? On opublikował swój save. Mnie interesuje seed Dzuniora i zahy )
Can't wait for other videos about Reversing seeds! ; )
This is fascinating, great job
This is truly revolutionary
Honestly, I think it's worth acknowleding that Java random doesn't completely suck - if I wanted to do as many calls to next() as Minecraft, I'd probably want something fast as fuck rather than having something which can't be reversed and jumped around in easily
Agreed.
Hello from AntVenom
I recognize that patch of air see you aoon
So... I have this habit of playing with F3 always on, and i make A LOT of screenshots. I used to have this server that me, my boyfriend and like 5 other friends used to play on, however one time I wanted to change the server to play pixelmon with my boyfriend, but didn't download the files of the world correctly (really just me being a dumbass here) And I would love to recover it. It was genuinely the best world I've ever played on and just looking back at those screenshots gives me chills..
You could use this to get the seed of the world, but not any of the changes you made to it.
@@haph2087 stating obvious ?
_ Beferrr So what’s the question then?
@@haph2087 I can't tell if you're being serious or just can't read
_ Beferrr Serious.
I feel like this is going to start provoking minecraft hacked client creators to implement this into their clients automatically and then recover stronghold locations, dungeon locations, ore locations (even with anti-xray plugins) and pretty much everything else that you might want to know about a minecraft world
Honestly, that would be really cool.
@@sightninja It would be a nightmare for server owners, considering it's pretty much unpatchable.
@@jakecrowley6IIRC, there are now server mods that detect when people are effectively mining directly to diamonds in a pattern that suggests x-ray of some sort.
This gives a whole new meaning to "Minecraft Dungeons".
Antvenom
*Im gonna make this whole mans career*
have you guys ever thought about reverse engineering the shadow of israphel seed? the seed has been released before but when the seed is put into an old alpha version it just doesn't work. there are dungeons shown within the episodes but i was wondering if that could be reverse engineered!
Very interesting watch. Thanks!
why have i wasted my time looking for slime chunk coords and going to structures finding their location and inputting into seed crackers which take about 10 days
when what my eyes are seeing right now, a seed among zillions, cracked by 1 teeny weeny structure
let me have my crying time also i hope you get the youtube play button award tomorrow
here from xcom. wait but this is not antvenom lmao.
i really appreciate that you are going to teach us everything about seed cracking, i was about to look into it myself. i'm really hyped for the next videos!
So these guys just saw the blocks on the floor of a randomly generated structure and found nine possible seeds out of the trillions of different seeds, then found the right one.
sucks to be those guys that hacked to get the world seed and got banned
Wow!
This has gone completely over my head!
This looks excactly like the ppt from my linear algebra professor, i guess you both used the same layout. I was really struggeling with motivation for learning but now i want to mass comsume those presentations!
Yeah - LaTeX Beamer is popular among math folk.
If all goes well you'll see some linear algebra in a future video of mine - a lot of minecraft seedfinding reduces to it.
I don't think I would ever be happier than now about the fact that java random sucks, man it should! if not so it would be nearly impossible to reverse engineer that seed, take that awesome experience and make such an interesting story video, you guys are crazy thankyousomuch.
After 8 years, I was finally able to get the original seed of my Beta Minecraft World, Thank you so much for this video!
oh thats epic dude
An excellent presentation. Subscribed.
Great video full of awesome information.
subscribed. Waiting for next part
We need a free and easy to use multi edition,multiplatform calculator that takes the minimum or maximum information to try and find the seed
this channel in a nutshell, well at least the first three video's I've seen:"Java RNG is bad!"
If you are making a game, and you don't want people to do this and reverse engineer the seeds of random happenings (for some reason - cheating would be a good one), and you are using Java, don't use Java RNG.
I happen to fall perfectly in that definition. I might not have ended up using it anyway though, because I didn't know of it's existence until said three videos.
Vex's adventures in minecraft
I can't wait to see the collaboration with X that could result from it ;)
so in theory, using a similar method on other WG things (villages, ores, starter chest loot), one could in theory "engineer" a seed for something like a speedrun for example?
Well Explained! Hopefully, the explanations in the future are shorter.
In the sense that details are more compact/concise. I like the 'going deeper' into the explanation.
Long videos are common in technical videos.
Was hoping to get EP1 in the same week
Yeah turns out explaining is hard. Been hoping to record it sometime today or tomorrow but schoolwork has been a burden.
Matthew Bolan sorry didn’t know
God bless u
Fascinating. Will this type of seed cracking work in modern Minecraft worlds, do you think? I understand that the way worlds generate has received quite a few changes throughout the years.
Yeah it does. An experimental version implemented in KaptainWutax's seedcracker mod is able to crack most world seeds in seconds.
@@matthewbolan8154 Huh. What a concept.
Yogscast tekkit seed will actually be obtainable in a few months in stead of never
You have no idea what X's adventures in Minecraft means to me, thank you.
Just loaded the seed up and navigated to death mountain from memory while listening to the Wind Waker music. Hell yeah.
@@sadface its also AntVenom Favourite Series
I have a world from beta that got corrupted from updating through the years. Using spectator mode I was able to find some untouched dungeons. I would love to know how to reverse engineer my seed on this world too! Can you share the algorithm?
omg these slides are just like my math lectures
I tricked ya! Test on tuesday - better study boi
Matthew Bolan a real bruh moment
i legit have a test on wednesday and this entire escapade has inspired the hell out of me to take this studying wayyyy more seriously.
would take this over university maths any day
hey i found a pretty cool seed that makes pink sheep spawn constantly was wondering if u wanted to take a look?
> uses latex and beamer for presentations
must be good
You are amazing!
if you dont have access to a kaptain wutax, write your GPU code yourself, it really isnt that hard. :P great that you are finally doing explanations of all this
Did you know that kap is actually cheating when gpuing and he could cpu it since he only do a 2^40 range ;)
At the time I watchey this video you had 1530 subs but after it you had 1.7k! Btw I found you from AntVenom
I would like to reverse a seed from on streamer (Ph1lza or Philza). Please be honest. Do you think I will be able to do it?
Just asking.
Modern version of the game.
i don't really know much about minecraft but this is really fascinating to me, so I'm going to subscribe. I may unsubscribe in the future, so apologies in advanced.
I just really dont want to miss out on any of this reverse-engineering adventure.
AntVenom ♥️
cool video ! subbed
Im a noob in all this but this heck my brain out and I'm very interested in learning this method to reverse a seed I like, but I still have a question that would probably make me look dumb, but I still don't get the meaning of 'bit' in this context. I understood everything else, the 'bottom bits', and all that, but I don't know what a bit is?
Computers represent numbers in binary, or base 2. When I say "bit" I mean a base two digit, that is 0 or 1.
I should also mention "bits" has an information theoretic meaning which I use in this video as well - a bit is more fundamentally a measure of information - the precise amount of information conveyed by a single binary digit. By considering it just a measure of information we can talk about fractional values of bits and use it to get ahold of this idea that dungeons give us a lot of information about the seed, where other structures might not, without needing to worry about if we can recover any individual binary bits at the moment.
@@matthewbolan8154 I get some of the things you say 🤤😵 and I know I will understand all this one day in a few years. I'm pinning this comment. Thanks for your help, by the way!! Underrated channel, hope it grows up a lot more! 👍💙
if your one of the seed finders, could u find popularmmos challenge games seed
More math info dumps please.
I see how all this research helps the general field of minecraftseeds, but doesnt the game only suggest 32bit seeds? Since we can assume that, at least in x,s case a normal, presuggested seed was chosen, the amount of worldseeds we would have to bruteforce through is quite low.
No the game does not only suggest 32 bit seeds. That is true in bedrock edition, and if you type text into the seed box though, but for java edition theres about 2^48 which the game can suggest and 2^64 which can be generated.
Great. Now reverse a seed from a sigle Block!
Hey Matthew, are you guys sharing the code used to find X's seed? I'd be interested in using it myself. :)
I wonder if you can reverse engineer the seed to 8-BitRyan's Minecraft world. It will be difficult, but I still think it’s possible.
Here from antvenom
Or you could have me just look for a nice world to play in
So basically, you can find any world seed if you have coordinates of any dungeon in it, with information about mossy cobblestone pattern?
I bet you have a degree in minecraft seed finding
Nice LaTeX beamer presentation :)
It's gonna be more relevant when I need to explain some of lattice reduction stuff
@@matthewbolan8154 I can imagine. LaTeX is great for formatting math.
All this time, I have read your name as "Bolean".
What is a better random number generator? I need one for my battleship AI.
Awesome video!!
the real MVPs
Well that’s just impressive
Nobel Prize right here
Will this ever be available as a standalone program that can input information?
Currently it seems that only people who are experienced in the coding itself are able to use any of these techniques
Is the seed paulsoaresjr used for his famous first serious known? Or could we find the one from Minecraft Multiplayer Fun? There also might be an old video of a world with a monolith in it which either didn't provide a world download or the download itself expired, so that could be a challenge as well.
Is you can reverse engineer your Minecraft world, you pass algebra during Covid-19.
This video needs more views and like :D
I really need someone to find a seed for me. Any volunteers??
If you set your Minecraft version to an older version, does Java go with it? Im pretty sure the implementation of the next() methods in Java's Random class has changed a bit sense Minecraft was first developed... I would imagine this would complicate things for you? Most people hate using util.Random tbh...
Minecraft was first developed in Java 1.6. There have been no major changes to Random since that time asides messing about with how exactly the SeedUniqueifier is used (and a typo where one of their magic numbers was wrong).
If you had the dungeon floor pattern and the world seed, do you think you could use it to retrieve the coordinates, similar to how it can be done with bedrock patterns?
Yeah that's quite trivial.
Have you tried finding Bananapielord's original seed?
That's incredible.
But there is one burning question I want to ask: Could one get the seed by knowing the vague time frame of first generation (+-2 hours) and the 2 starting bioms? (the nearest ones?)
Because when I generated my first world in May 2014, I still remember the biom (dark oak forest) and the day of the Generation.
Could I get a list of all possible seeds with that distinction and then just go through them manually?
thats pretty unlikely - its generated with nanoseconds since pc startup on most operating systems and there's some extra scrambling if you did basically anything besides directly open the world after booting up minecraft. There is a problem in ancient versions which might make it possible, bu since you said it was a dark oak forest I'm afraid its likely lost.
If you have screenshots of the world you might have more information than that, which would bs very helpful. Basically the idea with seed cracking is that you use data about the world to calculate which world out of the complete list of possible worlds you had. Some data is more useful than others as it can be reverse calculated rather than brute forced.
But how can I actually do that?
X faked his reaction and were finding that out like 10 years later? Lol
The giant tree tiaga uses lots of mossy stone and therefore has LOTS more information correct? Would this make it easier to bruteforce a newer seed???
Not quite - information isn't something just attached to certain blocks - rather it is the context of how the game decided to place that block which is important. In dungeon floors the game makes a TON of choices between whether to place cobble or mossy cobblestone, while in the mega taiga the game is really only making one choice - whether to put a boulder down at all. Of course, information also isn't only decided by the number of choices made - but how rare they are. Something like a desert well is a 1/1000 chance of being in a given chunk. The game only makes one choice there, but the fact it is so rare means that we can extract much more information from it than we could other things.
@@matthewbolan8154 is there somewhere that explains how and where to find all the code for each of these things that are generated. Ie how the world is generated? I've been looking through the game code myself but I can't discern where to start.
Last Seen: 2 months ago
Great video but do you think seed cracking is something that can be done for new seeds? For example I play on a small survival multiplayer. ik where lots of dungeons, strongholds are and exact coords a bit more than you had to find “x’s” world. I would want to know the world seed to find slime chunks and new biomes.
Yeah if you have access to the world both KaptainWutax and Neil (hube12 on github) have seed cracking programs that will probably work for your purposes.
@@matthewbolan8154 thanks for the reply. i tried neil's but his only goes up to 1.14 and the world i play on is 1.15.2 i assumed there would be a chance it worked since 1.15 was bee update but it didn't produce a seed in the program and the "seed file txt" it produced was empty. can you confirm that it won't work with 1.15+? thanks
@@lukerobinson6720 1.15 had minor changes to the world generation across the board, I'd say its pretty unlikely neils works in 1.15, but IIRC KaptainWutax's seed cracker mod should. More general tools are being developed, but its gonna be a while before anything really user friendly is public.
@@matthewbolan8154 just use kaptainwutaxsa and it works! tysm