Is High or Low Cadence Fastest? - Wind Tunnel
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Simple test with some odd results. 60rpm, 90rpm and 120rpm whilst keeping the same wheelspeed. Results threw up some odd behaviours tat I try and understand.
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I often wondered about this, but now I wonder no more. My knees are crying already.
Yeah ... 60rpm, in the real world, would blow your knees
Finally something good about us low cadence grinders 😂
Bad for sprinting, but great for wearing the group out! 🤣
That was obvious. But with 60 rpm you build up too much lactate early
I have mashed along at 70-74 TTing for twenty years when I am typically 80-82 on my road bike.. Always thought I was an anomaly.
So TTing at 0 RPM would be ideal then?😂
That's what I was thinking as well.
With the caveat that I'm entirely mediocre, my practical cadence range is 75 to 95. I tend to be content at 75-80 and quite unhappy at 90-95. I would bounce like mad at 120. My point being, 60 vs 120, nobody rides at 60, nor at 120, right? Would have liked to see a more applicable range, say 75 vs 90?
I think the conclusion is always going to be to use whatever cadence feels better, for 99.99pc of riders, but data is fun.
Surely the derailleur moving out, closer to the turbulent flow from your ankles could be responsible for part of the gain? At higher yaw, potentially the turbulent flow from your ankle starts hitting the derailleur in the 90rpm position causing reduction to closer to 60rpm result?
I also wonder if in a 0 degree yaw test an increased gap between derailleur and wheel could have a benefit - think about the super wide forks on Hope bike or the Hanzo to ensure no disruption in flow over wheels. Think you really need to rehire the tunnel and try with a hup gear so we know its not the derailleur position...
Dammit, I think you might be right. Time to raid Juliette’s piggy bank again 😂
Thanks for the input nonetheless!
A friend of mine just got a 3w savings from an aero cage. He tested it a few times to make sure it was legitimate. He just used a normal gear and cadence for doing roughly 48kph. My guess is that derailleur location has a smaller effect with that aero cage
My biggest takeaway from that was potentially being very still and smooth on the bike at all levels of power and cadence (while seated) is the lowest hanging fruit here. I’ve found long indoor and outdoor z2 rides have made me smoother over time…also moving from 175 to 170 to 165mm cranks over past few years has changed the smoothness of my pedal stroke a lot.
for the better or worse?
maybe that's why Obree was fast cos he rode a huge gear for the era at a low cadence, and it wasn't so much to do with the position, as has been called into question the supposed benefits of, given his good performances on tri bars etc. maybe the low cadence was a big factor then and you've just solved this debate (or added to it) 😆
It's all about top-down decoupling. Practice high cadence drills people.
Would shorter cranks allow you to keep your body in place when doing high cadence and thus lower the cda? the question here is - is the frequency of legs going up and down impacting the cda or is it the movement of the whole body
The fact that we haven't seen the Huggs boots test result yet can only mean one thing : Alex discovered that they were incredibly aero and is hiding it.
This confirmed my own suspicions. People were saying that it's such low leg speed that it doesn't matter - they stated 1.5mph max speed. But they fail to consider the upper leg as a lever and combined with the speed it is a big change in momentum.
The question is, if low cadence is really faster. If you save 3% with lower cadence but loose 4% in power, then go higher cadence.
Of course it's like that everywhere in terms of power vs aero
Really interesting though, thanks Alex, shame my knees are shot, maybe the long cranks and slow cadence are to blame! 🤣
I remember a local pro years ago saying low cadence was better into a strong headwind. But he was a bigger rider and as strong as an ox, so fine for him!
Invest in tech a bit and upgrade your mic game and make the room dryer (sound wise). The echo is really bad. Great vids though.
More content like this!!!! love it
Pedaling ridge would a very interesting one to do Alex & one I would love to see.
Maybe not super useful, as you say but certainly super interesting. Really enjoying the series, Alex. I guess the question is, even if the physiology of low cadence isn’t as good, is the aero saving still worth it to encourage riders to push that higher gear 🤔 (maybe a few squats in the gym will make it a no brainer?)
With training in S&C from Guru Kate @ Valere
The mid test music gets me going every time
long cranks and low cadence ftw
As a low cadence rider, this makes me very happy 😊
Does it? This means you cant get faster by a simple change... ;)
Sort of logical... if you think about it drag is related to the velocity squared... at higher cadence at the same speed your leg is moving forward through the wind faster than at lower cadence... the savings on the recovery phase would not be linear so not fully offsetting the added losses as your leg comes over the top.
Thx for the tests and the video.
These lab tests are confusing. Can you do the same tests in the real world? outdoors?
Back in the late '80's I was on large chainrings and long cranks 177.5, with slow cadence, shame there was no real thought then re aerodynamics bar a low profile frame, at that time. So much data now, and options, I wonder what my 10 TT PB time of 21.01 would translate to now!
If you added resistance at the higher cadence the bounce would go down. Add power and try the ovals, that would be interesting, don't you think?
Brilliant Alex, thank you for looking @ the nuts and bolts of "optimal cadence". Illuminating for sure!!!!
HI Alex,which saddle you using?thanks
Didn't a guy win the bbar a few years back using a huge chainring and low cadence?
Can't remember his name,was it Nic Bowdler or something similar 🤔
Nik Bowdler, yes.
"No one time trials at 60rpm".............. Serhiy Gonchar has entered the chat
Closely followed by Bert Grabsch
Wouldn't 80-85 rpm have been more realistic than 60? Just curious why you went so low?
Fair question, 80-85 I sometimes TT at on particularly bad days, so I wouldn’t consider it slow, just on the slow end of my range. I’m also not doing repeats for the sake of time so tiny differences could be in the margin of error I think.
@@AlexDowsettOfficial Cheers for the reply. Enjoying the series.