Is There an Optimal Cycling Cadence? The Science
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- Опубликовано: 20 ноя 2022
- Is there a certain cadence that will produce the best cycling performance and will doing cadence intervals in training make you faster and fitter? I dive into the science to try to find out.
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paulogentil.com/pdf/Preferred...
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www.thieme-connect.com/produc...
paulogentil.com/pdf/Effect%20...
europepmc.org/article/med/828...
link.springer.com/article/10....
journals.co.za/doi/abs/10.105...
www.onlinetri.com/sites/romual...
www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...
www.frontiersin.org/articles/...
www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/...
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Backward hat Dylan is pure art. He probably is responsible for more than half of the 137k subscribers this channel has at the moment. And faster than you, for sure.
imho backward hat Dylan is like telling a joke but nobody laughs
Actually his point today at about a minute in was truth.
he's the true entertainer
Vylan rules 🤘
Don't know if you sat on this video for the prime moment but releasing just after another questionable GCN video on cadence was perfect 😁
Love that (for me at least) your videos have become satisfying validation of the (literally) days of research and information I've chosen to take on board and plan my training around.
Keep em coming!
Which video?
The low cadence training one was timed perfectly.
I think that practicing or trying out different cadences may be good to understand how your body responds. For instance, I found that on the flats in a group, I can save energy and quickly catch up to someone if I set my gears heavy and pedal at a lower RPM. Likewise, I spin going up hill because I feel the momentum of my legs provides a rhythm to push myself up the hill. So, if anything, psychological understanding of yourself.
@King Of Crunk Yes, I have also used that strategy. Sometimes I feel that lower cadence can help me relax while maintaining power.
@King Of Crunk Same!
Just discovered this channel a week ago. I was wondering about cadence research right before going on RUclips and bam, top of my recommendations! Good timing :D
Love the video and the channel! Some training topics i've been thinking about lately/dealing with that could make good videos: solving fueling/gastric issues during a race, going to failure during interval days, the nature of recovery and how long it takes based on workout type (like, what actually is recovery, what is recovering?), what is autonomoic stress and how does it recover and or add to performance gains once it does recover, sunburn/sun protection while training (somewhat relevant to performance but still an interesting topic I think), the nature of stagnation and what causes it in the short and long term.
Brilliant stuff from Dylan - as usual. Excellent Channel, excellent presenter.
Disc for dirt rim for road! ❤
My cadence is so low it gives my legs time to recovery between each pedal stroke!
🤣🤣🤣
Wow, this video blow my mind, i raced many times on 110-115rpm avg on more than 3 hours races ( which is natural for me ) and my maximum was 117 for more than 2hours and a half, now i understand why my training cadences never came even close to my race cadence, on training i can do 95rpm if i really go high cadence for 3h but it's a record and i generally ride more at 75-85rpm. The reason is just that i didn't go as fast, same thing for the climbs... I Always tryed to go full cadence on climbs and never achived to do so, now after i saw this video it's like an evidence to me. I think it's like a car, you can't go 5000rpm at 50km/h but at 200km/h you should ! 🤯
Hey Dylan, thanks for all the great content you keep putting out. Any chance you could look into SIT-Sprint Intensity Training?
It's a fascinating topic, especially the study 3:08 to 5 mins .
From my personal anecdotal experience, when racing at my max sustainable output, heart rate does indeed increase with a higher cadence (swapping between two gears multiple times on flat road) and is slightly faster. The higher cadence was more comfortable probably due to lactate being taken away easier with higher blood flow.
I do think the cadence you chose is very much dependent on what you are able to achieve: big power output or big cardiovascular 'output' i.e. are you more aerobic and less muscular or vice versa. I find it interesting that longer cranks and slower cadence is my preference off road.
The best speed is a combination of many factors and I'm sure the next generation of performance testing will give us a better picture (on bike live CDA measurements, live blood tests etc, the first few are out there.)
Cadence, crank length, bike position (in terms of toe- knee- hip torso angles and relative position to vertical), lactate tolerance, FTP etc will all be a big blend of very interesting findings. I also think nerve tiredness will be a factor as spinning at very high cadence is difficult for a prolonged time, I think due to the nervous system rather than the muscular skeletal system.
Great discussion of a complex and confusing subject. Thanks.
My take from this is, to enjoy your rpm comfort zone, but do some training at higher and lower cadence as well.
Or try to ride fast, at a cadence that you are comfortable with. You can feel for yourself if you are spinning or grinding inneficiently. Riding at a relatively low effort slow speed, regardless of cadence, will basically make your body used to riding slow.
I try to use the highest gear that i could on flat roads because building speed lets you take advantage of momentum, then spin to win on climbs because forward momentum is mostly reduced by the incline anyway.
Another great video! The conclusions as presented make total sense. However, in my opinion there are two reasons for doing cadence drills on the bike;
1. Break up the boredom.
2. Adapting to pedaling at a cadence we are not comfortable with because sometimes one has to do that. For example, climbing up a muddy gravel road. Or racing on a velodrome with a fixed gear bike.
But for strength, I go to the gym and lift heavy weights.
Bet you enjoyed the rabbit hole you went down this time. I certainly did. I'm an old boy and have been through all this theory and practice a few times and agree that preferred cadence is likely to be the best for the rider in race performance.
What I would add though is that there are benefits to doing high and low speed drills. Not necessarily fitness but performance in situations.
High speed pedalling situations arise during cross and mtb racing .. sprinting off the line in a lower gear at mad revs might get you well up the field but if you don't practice this ( and do a good warm up) you'll explode shortly after but I play this to my advantage being at the wrong end of the grid usually racing against mostly younger guys.
There are situations where you are stuffed and using a lower gear can enable some recovery but you have to have spinning in your capability.
Flexibility and comfort in rpm range must help.
Low rev high power has relevance to me as weight lifting is difficult due to knee issues that are less affected by pedalling than heavy squats.
Great video, cheers, Steve.
Love the video. I personally feel that I cannot put out high(er) cadences when I’m out of shape. When I feel great, I can push a lot more (especially up hill) and keep/produce a higher cadence. Can fully relate to the chicken + egg “problem”
Loved the mauna loa clip!
I think common sense is to ride with your prefered cadence if it’s not extremely odd (belove 70 or above 110). Your prefered cadence is probably where you are most efficient. However adding some high cadence efforts into your training seems wise as it trains your neurological system. Everything what the legs do originates from the brain 😁 If you race you know pace and effort can vary alot, especially in crit-style races so being used to high cadence bursts can be a good thing.
Excellent video
Without trying, 84 is my sweet spot as well. We were told to do thousands of 100 rpm miles back in the day. Fast legs helps when you need to use it, but for cruising and TT, 84 is perfect for me.
Good stuff!
Drizzle! Yo! I've watched you and your racing for quite some time. I think I have found what you need to get to the next level...you need to road race more! Road racing was the biggest eye opener to me as an ultraendurance guy. Maybe learning to road race better will help you not have to time trial Unbound and Leadville? Just some thoughts. Pure road racers are usually super efficient.
My take on it is that if you need to produce lots of power (track), spinning is best, i.e, if you do something more times in the same time = more energy. To limit muscle fatigue, spinning is best, even though it is less efficient. I think when spinning, you need to throw your legs around rather than push or pull. Therefore, all the little muscles in your hips and abdomen are engaged. (I.e. more muscles joining the party) Similar to the difference between throwing a baseball and a dart. The sprinter can push hard and throw hard.
I think if you need to preserve legs on a fast chain gang, it is advisable to up your cadence just a little bit (105 instead of 95) when power is needed. Then at the final competitive push at the end you are a bit fresher.
Similarly with leg destroying hills where you are 99% fit again, just moderately spin up the hills. If you are fully fit on the other hand, and don't need to preserve anything, you go at what's optimal for you. That's just the way I see it; not a scientist or a good cyclist. Strangely, not being good at something provides a better insight to how to preserve one's self ...maybe.
Group or paceline riding is another factor. My observation is that wheel sucking works best at a bit of a higher cadence as one can react & spin up more quickly to match group accelerations.
Interesting vid - especially the way it highlights subjective perception vs objective results. A lot of the findings reflect my empirical experience. On flat road, I personally like to be pedaling at 92-102 rpm. Below 92, it subjectively FEELS like power delivery is less smooth and like too much force through the pedal is required, and above 102 my cardiovascular system seems to get overly taxed as perceived through my breathing and heart rate (and my pedal-stroke also begins to get rougher). When climbing, I like to be between 65 and 75 rpm, primarily to make it smoother getting out of the saddle, and I can’t comfortably pedal above 75 rpm out of the saddle.
In the TRI bike world, Dan Empfield invented the first TRI specific frame to position the rider forward to isolate slow twitch muscle on the bike leg to save the fast twitch muscle for the run leg. A happy biproduct was the aerodynamics. So rider position might be a factor in the rpm comfort preference.
This video confirms most of my findings since I got a cadence sensor. Except one, low cadence benefit.
I did two weeks worth of riding strictly at 50×11 in endurance zone, where I live it's hard to find a flat section of road, so it's monstly rolling.
Post this I attempted a PR on a climb that's 2kms @ 4.5% (max reaching to 7%). I could churn lower gear at clocked a time of 5'42", that's 22.5kph... and I was holding back 5-10% - this was a PR. While the power required for this speed may not be a lot for majority of people here, but it's a lot for me.
It's a time I never imagined clocking for atleast another 1 year.
Post that, I got COVID and which lowered my fitness levels by good amount.
So, don't know🤷🏻♂️
One of the big reasons I think you see so much variation in cadence data, is because people have a preferred cadence- particularly when time trialling. When you instruct them to change their cadence, it alters their position and thus downstream power, even if at a higher cadence (because their less aero, or cannot hold the same gearing at the higher cadence).
I’m primarily a runner and the issue is exactly the same. You can go out and try to do kipchoge’s cadence but that ain’t going to get you a sub 2 hour marathon.
Now put down this video and go ride, run, swim, ski, lift or whatever else you want to get good at.
Seriously dylan amazing content as always.
Could you maybe look at the roll of liquids in training, racing, lifestyle? Obviously we need to stay hydrated but does the source matter? I’m guilty right now of doing 20 miles runs on coke rather than water.
Chris Miller just posted a video of a casual ride with Jay Vine. Jay mentions that his new coach has de-emphasized weights - especially heavy weights - and emphasizes high torque, low rev intervals. At around the 2:20 mark in the video, Jay mentions doing 4 min intervals at 400w and 50 rpm. Sounds like this coach is taking Jay back to some aspects of old school training
It works. I'm proving it right now. 60 rpm big gear. VO2 Max now 83.0 up from 56.0 one year ago.
Couldn't agree with you more since nothing replaces old school on the bike specific strength training.
I was told by a well known cycling coach years ago that your cadence should be natural and you shouldn’t force high or low cadence, just let your body do what it does naturally.
This is true. I used to run track, so once I started road cycling, my body naturally had a cadence that it felt comfortable at. I didn't know what cadence I was doing because i didn't have a meter. But my comfortable cruising speed was 25-27 mph. Without much effort. Now I have a meter and I see I'm riding at 95-110 comfortably. Sometimes too much science is a bad thing. Just do what your body naturally wants to do, and then train to go past it.
most of my rides i tend towards 90-110 but on certain bikes grinding at 70-80 while flying along a flattish road feels really good...
Remember that power is basically torque x revs. So of course power will be higher if your cadence is higher as perceived effort is more about how much force (ie. torque) you put into the pedals. We all have a comfortable range of cadence (eg. mine is ~75-115), not just a preferred cadence so within that comfortable range we will put out more power for the higher cadence, with the same perceived effort and change gears to stay within that comfortable range of cadence. Hope that makes sense 😂
Hello, thanks for all your science based cycling videos! I have a question, if a lower cadence results in greater use of glycogen would a faster cadence be more efficient in terms of FTP? I ask this because in one of your videos you mentioned FTP being the threshold where you are depleting glycogen faster than you are producing it, causing eventual fatigue.
20, 30 and 40 years ago we use to do low cadence/big gear drills mostly up moderate to steep climbs (road bike) but I always thought the weight training was more effective. These days I use the weights and mtb on local steep climbs and just use the "optimal" method on the road bike.What I have noticed is the steeper the climb the more glutes, lower back and core muscles are involved especially on the mtb.
I’d like to add that the first 42 are probably the best RUclips video intro of all time.
Love the callout to Durianrider. Funny.
When I'm on the final interval and right near the point of failure, sometimes it's impossible to hit the power at my preferred high cadence and lower cadences magically allow me to get there. At the start of the session when I'm fresh, the opposite is true.
Same for me.
Doesn't that just infer that you have a "preferred cadence" for when fresh and when fatigued? I don't believe the term "preferred cadence" implies only one choice of rpm but the cadence that you self select under whatever conditions you are riding at that moment?
@@fastasasloth Yeah probably. It doesn't really answer the questions in the video though. If my preferred cadence is in a constant fluctuation, it means there is no one optimal cadence, except there is, but it changes moment to moment. So, yes and no are both valid answers. Depends on how we want to look at the question.
@@philadams9254 true, though i guess one could view it (well i do anyway) that optimal cadence is one's preferred cadence if that cadence is what allows them to finish (or get further into) their workout, as you alluded to in your opening statement...?
@@philadams9254it might imply that you use up certain types of muscle fibers or groups and then swapping to using less fatigued ones makes you be able to keep up the power and your body just intuitively does it.
Some Coaches from my country also said in a way that the pro peloton ride in such speed that it's required high cadence anyway so it's unavoidable if you want to go fast. Hence some high cadence training is needed to be more efficient.
What about a video on how much training you have to do in order to maintain fitness? (if you cannot train much for 2 months, let's say).
Hey Dylan, I have a video suggestion for you. How does body fat percentage affect cycling performance? Maybe you could answer questions like what is the most optimal body fat% range for training and racing, how does being in a negative energy balance affect training and power output, how significant of a difference will it make to cut to lower body fat in the long term, what is the average body fat of Tour de France cyclists and other elite endurance athletes, and what part of the season/year is best to cut to lower body fat so it doesn’t interfere with training and racing, or is it fine to cut during hard training and racing.
Be lean like we are all year long. It’s SO easy bro.
@@durianriders how
If training is about adaptation, does it stand to reason that low cadence/high tension will produce adaptations that high cadence/low tension does not? (not in comparison to strength training in the weight room). If variety keeps you from plateaus (in the same way varying intensity and volume does) it seems that there would be a place for low cadence/high tension.
Could you bias your cadence slightly when training in favour of a particular adaptation?
Higher for VO2 max training, lower for muscle endurance
Marvelous!
I find my legs/body/zone I'm riding in/terrain dictate my cadence. Generally speaking, if I'm going easy (Z1/Z2) my cadence is typically in the low 70's to low/mid 80's. Tempo (Z3) and threshold (Z4) and I'm in the low to mid 80's. VO2 and anaerobic (Z5/Z6) and I'm in the mid to upper 80's, maybe into the low 90's if I'm going really hard. Sprints are over 100. I've tried spinning in the 90's in every zone (although this was long before power meters were commercially available) as 20+ years ago, that was all the rage, but doesn't work for me.....especially at lower power.
The whole spin to win trend came in the early 00s because of Lance Armstrong's TDF dominance. In the early 90s Lance had a much lower cadance in the 70s and didnt win much. He came back from cancer spinning 90+ and started winning so everyone assumed it must be the high cadance that was helping his performance........
The actual idea behind higher cadance at the time was more centered around recovery than power output to win grand tour rides, not really one off performances. The idea is that if you can operate at a higher cadance you will recover ever so slightly quicker after each ride as you should produce less lactic acid in the legs letting the heart do more of the work. Therefore, this gave a big gain over multi day grand tour rides by the second or third week. So unless youre trying to do 5+ day monster endurance racing regularly its probably not going to make much difference to your performance.
I find my freely chosen cadence tends towards higher cadence when doing higher power for the same riding conditions, such as on flat terrain. This makes some sense to me as we know that an extremely low cadence is not efficient and an extremely high cadence is also not efficient. Therefore, there is some optimal cadence between the extremes.
With most power systems, this optimum point moves with changes in power. So, I’m not surprised that my chosen cadence is higher for more power. This is also consistent with Dylan’s comments concerning pro riders and higher cadence with higher power.
Another point about chosen cadence, most bike gearing gives you gear changes in the range of 10-18% from one gear choice to the other. So, when trying to hold a given power (effort), sometimes it isn’t possible to use a preferred cadence. One gear you’re lower than you’d like, the next gear puts your cadence higher.
I do suspect that higher cadence drills might be useful to get better at riding at higher cadence. Not that this is optimal if you have a choice, but sometimes you simply don’t have a choice. For example, a long fast descent or rolling hills with frequent transitions where you want to avoid constant gear changes. Presumably if you have practiced riding at high cadence, you could do it more smoothly and therefore more effectively when needed.
I tend to get really sloppy when I get very much over 100 RPM and I’m literally flailing at over 110 RPM. Better riders do 110+ RPM smoothly. So, there is a skill to be developed there.
the thing is: specificity. if you train low cadence, you will get beter in low cadence. the same with high cadence. training these variations may be important for the different efforts in a race, like in a steep climb and a descent
I've given up on looking at my cadence meter and I'm riding at what feels right for me. I tried riding at 90rpm but for me it felt inefficient and very tiring, for some it probably feels right but not for me, i felt i couldn't maintain such a high cadence for long. Now as long as I'm pedalling in a smooth circle fairly quickly I know I'm doing it right.
I've been occasionally puzzled by cadence since I put the wired cateye computer with cadence on my bike back in the early '90's. Conclusion was always 'whatever.' What I have really observed is that on a TT type effort, if i alternate my cadence, higher until i can't stand it, then low to 'rest' and then back to higher cadence, I definitely cope better with the effort. It's like I'm using slow twitch ( not my strength) to exhaustion and then 'resting' those fibers with fast twitch (always a sprinter). If I look at cadence on my rides it's always spot on 76/77 ave.
I think that a small amount of cadence training is helpful for novice cyclists. If we don’t experience too low and too high, our comfortable rpm might just be what we thought we were supposed to do. I see many recreational cyclists use very low cadences because they’re just puttering around. I’m sure that some just aren’t comfortable with shifting. And some probably think that, because they are slow cyclists, they should pedal slowly. But as we know, if they gain the skills to pedal closer to 80 rpm, their riding will get easier.
For me, when I’ve been off the bike for a while, I’ll tend to pedal more slowly. After a week of renewed training, my comfort zone is faster.
So we might not need hours of training at extreme rpms, but a few minutes high and low can help us rewire our expectations.
Now… regarding strength training… big weights or high reps? Grizzly bear power or jack rabbit explosiveness? How about plyos? In general, it’s fast up and slow down, but I wonder what style is best for cycling.
Yes but those cyclist don't need the training anyway as most of the time they don't want to improve/train and the ones that want to go faster will naturaly just improve their cadence.
@@francisdayon - I don’t think we should generalize. When I first started cycling, 80 rpm seemed ridiculously fast.
I like the idea of pushing the limits. Pedal uncomfortably fast for a while, then see if the comfort zone is a bit faster. And if one can’t do low cadence, they probably can’t do steep hills.
But I wouldn’t spend significant time training for cadence. Just enough to find the real comfort zone.
Recreational cyclists do it for recreation, not sports. So they don't necessarily need specific training.
I consider myself a recreational cyclist, but i do like riding faster so i don't just "putter" around. I don't and won't spend money on power meters, heart rate sensors, high end cycling gear, no Strava subscription. I don't even ride on clipless pedals (flat pedals only). The best that i'll do is free Strava and besting my own segment times for fun.
I only watch this channel out of curiosity.
@@sepg5084 - Again, we shouldn’t generalize. I first shopped for a “fitness bike” with flat bars and I didn’t wear Lycra. But I wanted to get fit and not be too slow. Some commute. Some are riding for who knows what reason.
Clearly, if we’re talking about training, we’re not talking about the most casual rider. We’re at least talking about people riding for fitness, even if they’re in Nike gear with a flat bar bike.
Hey Dylan, we‘ve got a scammer.
Hey, You Tube, the comment above is from an impersonator trying to commit fraud.
I would like you to investicgate whether training at a higher cadence can change your preferred cadence. I can accept that preferred cadence is best in any one event, but is training to change that preference worthwhile?
Low cadence on the flat helped me climb better. I now need lesser gears to climb. Well you did mention that there's a sort correlation between climbing and low cadence.
I “naturally” like to pedal at 90-95 rpm. When I force myself to “slow down” to 85rpm but maintain my speed and relative watts I have a tendency to set new PRs for speed and power.
I’m a sample size of 1 but some times what you’re comfortable doing is not where you perform at your best.
Hey Dylan, what about the impact of high and low cadences on the joints and tendons especially in the knees and feet? Isn’t that equally important than the power output? Bests from Frankfurt/Germany, Volker
I’d be interested in your thoughts on cadence for tactical reasons; ie higher cadence allowing a quicker response to speed changes, whether a surging pace line or an attack. This seems a more important factor for group racing, than efficiency or max power. Whatever power you do have, is applied faster. Also, allowing riders to choose their own, seems like more of an argument for habituation, than an ideal for that person. I know twins, one who does tri, and another road. The tri guy pushes, and is noticeably slower to react to speed changes in a pace line, while the roadie twin is excellent in a paceline, and spins more.
Isn't it obvious high cadence would improve speed sensitivity? Surely you don't need to be told this
@@danmartin9086 If you meant me, I mentioned it because I know it, but was surprised Dylan didn’t mention it; he’s pretty thorough.
Great content, is there a video that you have done about heat training? If there is one can someone post the link to it? Thanks
Backward hat Dylan on fire today
Is it actually possible to have super smooth power output or do some power files look different because of smoothing that is applied by different powermeters? When I look at my data from a few years ago (Rotor 2inpower) everything looks extremely smooth and almost like ERG mode when doing intervals outside. Now with a 4iiii an interval looks very spiky with fluctuations from second to second. Would I be chasing an unobtainable smoothness or is it really possible to have close to flat "lines" on the graph in a power file?
I believe the higher power requiring higher RPM otherwise you're putting unnecessary peak forces on your connective tissues/joints.
After being injured for a while , getting on the bike doing 60watts at 55 rpm feels normal and higher rpm than that feels weird although my usual cadence is 80-85 (at 200w for example).
It's like you're wasting more energy to moving your legs up and down when you're not actually pushing down very hard, that makes you subconsciously choose a lower cadance.
I'm wondering about the correct way to position my cleats. I wonder if I should position them towards the front of the shoe or rather towards the middle. I thought I heard that Chris Froome asked that we drill new holes in his shoes, in order to position the cleats towards the middle of the shoe.
I rode my first TT and average 83 rpm, 21.2 mph over a distance of 25 miles on my Trek FX 6 (insane, I know). The later half of the TT I alternated spinning and mashing each mile. It seemed to be a good compromise when lactic acid started setting in.
Impressive Andrew.👍
It would be helpful to add to the empirical evidence a bit of theory (basically, physics). For a given power output, low cadence means more force on the pedal, while higher cadence means less force (work = force X distance, and power is work over time). I think this explains why lots of riders like to spin when they are not working too hard, as you get low forces and good venous return from your leg muscles contracting. Alternately, I bet lots of trained riders have noticed that they tend to run a lower cadence when riding with a friend who is quite a bit slower. When you're not near maximal effort, you can pedal slower without developing too much force, and lower cadences tend to be more (bio)mechanically efficient (mostly because you're not accelerating and decelerating the mass of your legs as often).
The other things to think about are leg length and crank length; as cranks get longer, you get more torque from the longer lever at a given force into the pedal, and can push a bigger gear with the same pedal force. How long a crank you can run scales with leg length, as most riders find that too much knee bend in the top of the stroke means they aren't getting that much force due to leverage in the knee. While there is lots of room there for individual variation, particular riders will likely find that as they drop crank length they need to spin faster (and that they can push bigger gears at a lower cadence as cranks get longer).
fast-twitch rider who prefers high cadence checking in. main reason is once my cadence drops (
Thanks Dylan for the comprehensive video on this topic. As for the conclusion, is their nothing to be said about the effects of low cadence training for improving climbing? Seeing as an average person tends to prefer lower cadence while climbing, it could make sense that training low cadence would benefit climbing?
Versus just training on climbs at one's preferred cadence?
@@oldanslo Yes if you have the hills nearby offcourse. But lets say you are training for an event with lots of climbing but you live in a very flat area (Like I live in the Netherlands), then it could make sense to train the lower cadence intervals right
I thought people climb at low cadence because they run out of gears! I know I do (too quickly).
I bet none of these studies controlled for height/cranklength and the resulting foot speed and that's going to be a huge thing, because ultimately "cadence" and foot speed are not the same, longer cranks =higher foot speed at the same cadence, also longer cranks relative to a person's height requires force through a wider range of motion
I'd like to see a video on saddle setback. Particularly wondering why your is always slammed all the way forward. :)
He’s explained why before
To compensate for a long reach of a longer stem, or just to be biomechanically in the right position relative to the bottom bracket, ergo pedals. Just try it yourself on your bike. Put back your saddle and suddenly your groin is going to hate you. Been there done that. Too far forward and your knees, torso/hands will suffer for having to cope with more weight. But if your knees are ok, that means that you are in the right position relative to the BB and you have to go with longer stem or slamming it. Just my experience. Too lazy and lack of knowledge to explain it like a bike fitter would.
@@The_Normalised_Cyclist I went from a 25mm setback seapost with saddle slammed all the way forward until I got myself a straight seatpost. Now my saddle is no longer slammed forward, but nicely centered. I feel like I'm comfortably right over the bike but could use more reach again. Would lowering my stem achieve this? I'm getting fitted on this particular bike soon and I'm looking forward to seeing if my fitter would do it
@@bugabutu sure give it a go. Costs nothing, longer stem even used would be around 10-20 euros. If you are due for a bike fit also you can just wait for it :D Personally I wish bike fitters offered a two time bike fit for a fraction of price compared to one time thing. It’s steh entirely different to ride stationary and then in the real world. Especially for a longer time.
@@The_Normalised_Cyclist I currently run a 120mm stem. My bike fitter actually built the bike but didn't have an appointment to fit me cause he has been booked and travelling. He specced it to the other bike I had fitted by him but I've also been working on my flexibility for around 4 months now so maybe it's time I can finally slam dat stem lol
I will take what Dr Ferrari says over any study.
How about the increased amount of muscle contraptions with higher cadence driving more adaptations to the mitochondria? Let's say 90rpm vs 60rpm zone 2 ride, that's 50% more muscle contraptions. I've been wondering about this for a long time.
I bet if you look at actual power load on the body, not input to the cranks or the rear hub, you'd find that higher cadence means a higher proportion of the power load is just to move the mass of the legs up and down in a gravity field and not to propel the bike forward. In real mechanical motors used in motorcycle and auto racing I think it's the case that overtime speeds have increased correlates with increasing RPMs.
When will you put Big Sugar recap?
Adding to some comments below, everybody should learn to spin smoothly at at least 100 rpm (especially newer riders), just from a technique standpoint. If your personal optimal cadence (based on leg length, crank length, fiber composition, power output, etc.) is higher than you can smoothly pedal, then you're not going to find it. And it does take some neuromuscular practice to get smooth at higher cadences, especially when applying a decent amount of power. I guess you could just take a spin class... ;)
There are circumstances where you have to pedal slow (especially if you are on very steep gradients. I guess the only benefits of low cadence training is that it helps you get used to that sensation.
That said, actual strength training still beats low cadence on that regard. Also, at the end of day, you are trying to pedal hard not necessarily pedal slow. There’s no substitution to strength work in terms of getting you used to pedal hard.
Well yes you need higher cadence with higher output, and this is as simple as if you need yo carry 2 bags is more efficient to carry twice than to carry 2 that you can support, we develop a zones cadence based algorithm based on power
Durianrider part killed me 😂😂
Yeah don’t like Dylan giving that bro any oxygen. If we all ignore him he’ll go away.
I think most people will shift to an easier gear if cadence falls below 70 on a hill because of preference and perceived exertion. Looking at my head unit and power meter, I have a fairly low preferred cadence around 76-78, and I select gears to spend most of my time there because grinding feels unpleasant on old joints. That's what all those gears are there for.
From an physics perspective the higher the cadence with the same weight on the pedals is better, as you are moving the same weight further in the same time, plain fact, it is not a chicken and egg scenario as it is a product of physics: more rpm will produce more power with equal torque approx: 10% power increase per 10% speed increase.
5:52 and on is the real balancing act when dealing with the physics and the physiology of the individual and their goals.
Not possible to only train low cadence only.
1. Train low cadence from time to time in blocks
2. Also during the week you have to ride your preferred cadence like over weekends
3. In recover rides one would also choose a easy cadence as it's recovery.
4. Intensity maters in training subscription
5. Gym work is a must
6. Train like a track and field athlete in all terrains. Hills, flats and TT.
7. Train in a group and train on your own
I love the Durianrider shoutout!! Love that crazy dude.
If you agree with 60% of what he says then he is entertaining enough to watch.
Choosing a self selected cadence does not work for juniors. Juniors have gear restrictions (at least in road racing) My son is a 14 year old competitive cyclist with a max gearing in the U15 category of 46x16 (U17 have 46x14, U19 have 52x14).
His average cadence in his last flat TT was 120, with a max cadence of 160 during the descents. He has to train at ridiculously high cadences, just to keep up with the others…
Gear restriction for Jrs ends in 40 days. No more Jr gear restrictions in 2023.
That’s u19, not younger categories.
Which produces more lactic acid? Spin or grind at eg ftp?
Durian Rider dig had me legit laugh out loud
You can easily see how cadence affects your heart rate by going in ERG mode on your trainer. For me I find my HR is the lowest at the rpm that is most comfortable to me most of the time... 75-80 rpm
Thanks for writing this. I thought I was crazy having an average cadence of around 75 indoors and 80 outdoors. When I've tried to ride at higher cadences it feels awful.
@@LucasCanDrumfor me 80+ is fast indoors😂 average always around 70
I haven't figured out how to put my kickr in erg mode. It does it automatically in works, but not just riding.
@@stevek8829 For me I use a Wahoo Kickr and the Wahoo app. I think it may depend on the type of workout you're doing in the app. For me I choose "indoor cycling". Then its available in one of the "screens". For me it's on the third screen labeled Kickr Target Power. That screen has about 5 tabs in it. The 3rd tab is ERG. If you don't see this screen then somewhere in settings you can customize what screens to show in each workout type. Hope this helps!
@@JBuchmann thank you. I guess I went to the Zwift app in two days. The Wahoo app, RGT, crashed a couple times.
No one seems to compare pedal torque. I suspect there is a ceiling on seated torque, after which increasing power would require increasing cadence.
Let's say you get your body used to grind a high gear during training at 60 rpms for 3 hrs. When it comes to the speed of a race you would need to use a 68 x 12 to go at 27.3 mph at 60 rpms. It only makes sense to adapt the body to high cadences that later will translate into gears that are realistic and corresponding power outputs while in the pack, a solo break and a sprint.
Do both. Train on a big gear, slow rpm. Then gear down and up the cadence for competition.
Grind to glory
I would like to thank Backward Hat Dylan for reminding me about Doucherider. Forgot all about that waste of oxygen and will hopefully forget about him again by the end of the day
When I grind at 60 rpm, the wind is faster in my ears. When I spin at 90 rpm, the wind is slower in my ears. Science. I’ve always muscled my way through everything I do (and have no speed in anything I do) so maybe that’s part of it.
Hi, thinking about high cadence=high power output. Even in this video You say, that going uphill the cadence lowers, but we all know that going uphill more power is needed... So these two statements don't match. I constantly observe my cadence going lower when doing high power intervals 🤔🤔
I think the problem with most cycling studies is controlling confounding variables, humans are much harder to study than mice. The protocols need to be rigid, but endurance athletics can be influenced by a myriad of factors. Good video, keep spinning.
are the garmin training plans good???
Preferred cadence or should it be preferred torque........??
I´m 60 and been riding my whole life. On really long rides (120-300km) I´m getting knee pain if the cadence drops. I ´m trying to hold 90rpm but when i´m tired the cadence drops so I need to stay alert.
I also find it easier to stay with faster riders if my cadence is high. Riding fast gives high cadence automatically??? And not vice versa…
If I do slow cadence for a very long time, I end up having cramps.... if I use fast cadence, I finish my water bottle quickly.... Best to alternate... fast when ascending, slow when descending or on flats
Just a thought... there is mechanical loss in the drive train.... if you lose a fraction of a Watt for every revolution of the pedals... then less revelations could mean less loss. (I know that is way over simplified... but it is interesting)
IMHO, Higher cadence easier gear less muscle fatigue and cardio recovery can be done on the bike, lower cadence harder gear more muscle use, muscle fatigue recovery is done while sleeping.
On a fixed gear, a higher cadence forces the legs to be more relaxed and supple, one needs to let the pedal come up to keep from getting bucked off, training the off leg to lift the pedal. The up stroke leg doesn't add resistance to the down stroke leg.
After many conversations with other riders, the comfortable rpm is arbitrarily personal preference. What about rider weight? The heavy guys seem to have low cadence, light guys seem to have a faster cadence. Hilly or flat I tend to average 93 rpm, less taxing on the knees. I weigh 140lbs.
Last ride had a cadence of FIVE. I call it "coasting" training and it is a very specific skill.
I love the Hoodie.
I'm new to road cycling and played around with cadence and my personal opinion is everyone is different so stick to your strengths.
Euro racer once told me that when you are tired you lose leg speed but not power. Slower cadence when tired.
It is spin to win vs. smash for cash. Although the second only works for pros