Or maybe just your normal riding position so you are fresher at the end, for a bigger sprint. Its scary the difference between hoods and drops and bent arms on the hoods. Caleb Ewan used to be super super aero on his sprinting position, but now he is more upright. I can only assume that its down to control of the back wheel when he was so far over the front.
I started holding the shrug religiously a few years back and had a step change in how good my results were in TTs and duathlons. It is so easy and effective. costs nothing.
as someone who has muscular dystrophy of my upper body the shrug come naturally for me just because my shoulders are too weak to stabilize and hold me so i rely on my tendons stretched out to hold me and the shrug just happens naturally. people always tell me take you shoulders out your ears but I just cant now i see its my secret weapon or super power!!!
You get me through a lot of trainer sessions and inspired me to start racing bikes. Bryan is a great addition to your channel. Best of luck to you reaching your goal. We'll all be watching (or anxiously waiting for the video to upload).
Brian is such an amazing human being that so many of us can learn from and be inspired by. This guy is so proactive and takes responsibility to take on whatever challenge he can find. Thank you for being such an amazing human being!! Ride on! F
I'm going to gain so many watts from the tips in the video that I'll only have to pedal for the first 30 seconds and I'll still win the D grade crit races. I need one of those orange POC helmets.
Those helmets(that are run by Danish team) are double edge sword. Super aero in one position, but gets quite worse if you move a bit from the perfect spot
Greg Lemond taught everyone what the best position was back in 1989. Ulrich and those others who adopted super low positions like at 7:50 just worked way too hard (I mean look at him, he looks like an air scoop!). I bet Greg with his setup would fare pretty well today, but even then a few tweaks would make him even faster.
Well there goes the "slam your stem" crowds argument haha. I imagine the higher stack isn't just faster but also more comfortable, so you will be better able to stay in a good position for an entire race. I do imagine you'd have to look up a little bit every few seconds to see where you're going.
Bryan looks like a Star Wars x-wing fighter. And Specialized is legit for hooking you up knowing this vid is going to be seen by 100k eyeballs. I wonder what the difference would have been on the Shiv!
It was even more than I thought. I guessed it was 65W. That upright bad position looks terrible. Not surprised at what it came out as. Great video, thanks for sharing.
The active, head-on velodrome view showed that he doesn't get his head down nearly as far as the "ideal position" where he's staring at his front hub. There are glasses with a 45° mirror for looking forward while lying on in a supine position. Maybe the opposite would be useful for the prone position.
Really interesting with the suits. No Pinz has tested faster than castelli before. Really does show that its all down to the riders position and the interaction with the kit not just the kit. One cool thing if your based in the uk is that no pinz can make a custom suit for you. They 3D scan you and then create the perfect suit for your dimensions! I'm a brit and wanted to stand up for our smaller brands ;) Also would be interesting to see to see getting something like the wattshop extensions vs the standard ones Bryan had.
this answered my question; using their newest suit i suspect may be better as its designed for higher speeds; annoying/damaging when they say a brand but dont say which suit it is. @@garychambers714
I run all bespoke rings. 61,62, and 63T. I also run an 11/128” (11spd) chain on the track too. Just for a little better aero gain and better drivetrain efficiency
Hi ! Have you tested Aero Calf Sleeves like those form Zoot (Elite Aero Calf Sleeves) or Huub Aero Calf Sleeves. Huub claims that these Claf Sleeves save up 8 Watts, if this is ture i would be a huge gain for only 50 Bucks. I very curious how these aero Calf Sleeves perform vs perfecly shaved legs. I would realy appricate an answer. Best from Germany Eddy
Triathlon, you forgot to mention to take this information to my next triathlon. I have always just ridden my road bike in triathlons, but seeing this I may at least have to buy some aero bars and practice riding like that. I'm all for saving watts. Oh, and of course best of luck Bryan!
It will depend on wether you're inside a roofed velodrome (somewhat laminar flow) or outside (turbulent flow) and what the wind conditions are (low to high turbulences, angularity of the flow). The 5 spoke front thing here in this video, is only applicable to velodrome conditions and could work as an approximate for outside conditions in low turbulences (desert flat, low wind, colder day) and small wind angles. Back to your questions, your 30mm wheel will never provide any significant "attachment" effect of the flow to the wheel profile at such speeds (30 to 50km/hr). It's only at around 45 to 50mm a section that you will start to see real gains.
@@albr4 yeah that’s what I’d think. Especially in situations where the rider has no obligation to be sponsor correct like Dan Bigham or Alex Dowsett last year.
@@95TegSE literally every track race where they want to go fast; individual pursuit, team pursuit, hour record, they all use double discs and it's basic aero knowledge that a solid object is faster than a hollow object, I'm not sure what this guy was thinking, maybe he was referencing the outdoor velodromes or perhaps he's forgotten that the wind tunnel has laminar flow whereas on the track it's more turbulent. The sole reason we all don't ride around using solid disc wheels on the road is because of the lack of crosswind stability.
@@albr4 funny enough Aerocoach did release a road front disc last year and I was scratching my head. Apparently there’s nothing in the UCI rules that prevents you from running a front disc in a road TT, it’s just generally not practical in most circumstances.
Is a high stack really a high stack, if it’s stacked on top of a really low base bar? The key is, are the pads where they need to be to optimize shrug and head position, and the stack works itself out depending on base bar height. IOW, it’s not stack height, but pad height, that matters.
does this mean a higher stack is also better for crit racing. instead of lowering frontal area with a huge saddle to bar drop you can do it by bending the arms and take away the frontal area of the arms too while opening the hips.
I did this on my training bike and it's worked out quite well actually since I'm almost guided into a naturally elbows bent position in the hoods, mind you my fit isn't relaxed by any means, just a little more relaxed. ;)
did they do a bike fit too? i always thought the arms should be about 90 degrees from the torso, looks like he had alot of adjustment to move the saddle forward.
This is old but I hope you still answer this. I notice your crank is not aero crank, why? You set everything up for aero but crank still the standard shape. Or it is does not have aero benefits as we thought?
How do crosswinds, or just the yaw from the natural weaving of the bike with pedal stroke affect those results? And did you look at the optimum between extreme aero and position you could put max sustainable power out? Plus shrug v actually being able to see ahead? Guess my question is essentially what’s real world gains do you make v. wind tunnel gains?
Sounds like someone doesn't have access to a multimillion dollar wind tunnel. /s I think the reason is that Brian's main velodrome for training is outdoors, at that point testing would have too many variables to be Considered accurate
And I actually have done a bunch of testing outside too. But yes, wind in this region makes it very very hard to get accurate data that would apply while racing on an indoor velodrome.
This bike was really easy to assemble ruclips.net/user/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA and required very few adjustments out of the box. The wheels did not require any truing/adjustments. The frame had some small scratches, but nothing major.I did replace the seat though - the seat it came with was very uncomfortable. The tires need to be re-inflated every 4-5 days, but this appears to be quite common for the narrow 700x25 tires.Overall, in my opinion, this bike looks and rides like a much more expensive bike.
Raising your stack gets your hands in a position to break the air before it hits your body, same concept on ocean ships when they have the bulb on the front of the hull just under the water
@@garychambers714 someone in the TrainerRoad forum TT thread mentioned they tested the newest NoPinz Flowsuit super slow though. Something like 20w slower than Santini or Velotec, while others test them incredibly fast. As with anything TT related, skinsuits are very personal.
@@garychambers714 agreed. I’m still wearing a 2017 NoPinz tripsuit and it seems fast on me compared to other suits, but I haven’t done any real testing yet.
Great video! I am experimenting with different stack heights on my TT bike - can someone recommend an online bikefitting service that specializes on tri/tt?
I would watch out calling other skin suits 'slow'. They might be faster in other situations than the one tested here. This only shows that this skinsuit was fastest for Bryan, with Bryans equipment, at this particular wind tunnel setting (speed etc.).
really like this vid however every bit of test footage was done without looking forward, I assume you are only riding on track if are you looking down the entire time?
Your eyes only show you scary things so I prefer to use my other senses. The reality is in a solo track event you only need to look slightly ahead of you
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Comment below if you think Specialized should let me in to work on my sprint position on the road bike 🤘
On behalf of the alviso community I reject this request and all subsequent appeals
They definitely should examine your sprint position
So Cal conjoins the request and summarily rejects the request and any and all subsequent appeals - with prejudice. 😆
Also maybe test Caleb Ewan position while in the lab, to compare to?
Or maybe just your normal riding position so you are fresher at the end, for a bigger sprint. Its scary the difference between hoods and drops and bent arms on the hoods. Caleb Ewan used to be super super aero on his sprinting position, but now he is more upright. I can only assume that its down to control of the back wheel when he was so far over the front.
Shrugging your shoulders 25 watts tucking your head in 25 watts, bringing a Felt to Specialized’s private wind tunnel priceless.
That part… 😆
this made me almost spit my coffee out
$$$ Income is income, I doubt they really care 💰
This needs pinning
Specialized doesn't make "world-class" track bikes
I started holding the shrug religiously a few years back and had a step change in how good my results were in TTs and duathlons. It is so easy and effective. costs nothing.
as someone who has muscular dystrophy of my upper body the shrug come naturally for me just because my shoulders are too weak to stabilize and hold me so i rely on my tendons stretched out to hold me and the shrug just happens naturally. people always tell me take you shoulders out your ears but I just cant now i see its my secret weapon or super power!!!
@Jiggity Jay what having a disability?
You get me through a lot of trainer sessions and inspired me to start racing bikes. Bryan is a great addition to your channel. Best of luck to you reaching your goal. We'll all be watching (or anxiously waiting for the video to upload).
15:55 - It's not 'oil' ... and I bought a load of it back in 2018 ... hard to get hold of now, but I still have some!
Brian is such an amazing human being that so many of us can learn from and be inspired by. This guy is so proactive and takes responsibility to take on whatever challenge he can find. Thank you for being such an amazing human being!! Ride on! F
Thank you so much @tito. This means a lot.
Thanks! Super useful and I learned alot. I'm a masters 45+ TTer.
no more likeable dude than Bryan... hope we see a bunch more in the build up to his event
I'm going to gain so many watts from the tips in the video that I'll only have to pedal for the first 30 seconds and I'll still win the D grade crit races. I need one of those orange POC helmets.
I think you can find some leftover from Star Wars: Return of the Jedi cast. Lot of the dudes working in the Death Star had them
Content out of the box, love it Jeff! Keep em coming!
Nice seeing Ingmar!
Dark Helmet orders ludicrous speed!
Very very informative and no gimmick or shenanigans! Nice vid!
hoping this makes my breakaway success increase this season with concentrating on position. Thanks Jeff and good to see Bryan!
Sorry to hear about your accident, i wish you a speedy recovery. Come back even stronger!
Love to see Ingmar and Bryan!
Those helmets(that are run by Danish team) are double edge sword. Super aero in one position, but gets quite worse if you move a bit from the perfect spot
Great video. The kind that I love. I hope more like this in future
Ooh I like the concept of this video
Greg Lemond taught everyone what the best position was back in 1989. Ulrich and those others who adopted super low positions like at 7:50 just worked way too hard (I mean look at him, he looks like an air scoop!). I bet Greg with his setup would fare pretty well today, but even then a few tweaks would make him even faster.
Thanks for sharing this info....you can feel it on the bike...but never knew how much it really adds up to! Wow....85 watts...geez.
Mega Kudos to Specialized. All the best with your upcoming racing
Well there goes the "slam your stem" crowds argument haha. I imagine the higher stack isn't just faster but also more comfortable, so you will be better able to stay in a good position for an entire race. I do imagine you'd have to look up a little bit every few seconds to see where you're going.
1:57 funniest line I’ve heard in awhile…”when it comes to turning left…”
Fantastic and educational!
Bryan looks like a Star Wars x-wing fighter. And Specialized is legit for hooking you up knowing this vid is going to be seen by 100k eyeballs. I wonder what the difference would have been on the Shiv!
Big fan of Bryan Larsen right here!
It’s a great video. I would have loved to find an answer to different hand possition and low vs high arms configuration
Amazing Video
I am guessing 25%
It was even more than I thought. I guessed it was 65W. That upright bad position looks terrible. Not surprised at what it came out as. Great video, thanks for sharing.
Bryan was real F'ing fast before the wind tunnel, so this is just ain't fair.
so excited to see brian!!
The active, head-on velodrome view showed that he doesn't get his head down nearly as far as the "ideal position" where he's staring at his front hub.
There are glasses with a 45° mirror for looking forward while lying on in a supine position. Maybe the opposite would be useful for the prone position.
Fanstic discussion guys, thanks for the breakdown, learned a bunch.
Nobody tell Ollie at GCN, that his Nopins cost him 20 Watts!
thought the same thing haha
🤣 Probably the difference between his result and beating Merckx hour record
Ollie used a Flow Suit from Nopinz. Not the 2019 suit that they have used here 🤦♂️
@@garychambers714 you got the deep dive! That makes more sense, I imagine GCN would have the latest kits to use
Infact that’s a 2017 Trip Suit from Nopinz. So even older, and not even for sale anymore 🤦♂️.
Really good video, thanks!
This was super interesting! Great video, keep it up!
Really interesting with the suits. No Pinz has tested faster than castelli before. Really does show that its all down to the riders position and the interaction with the kit not just the kit. One cool thing if your based in the uk is that no pinz can make a custom suit for you. They 3D scan you and then create the perfect suit for your dimensions! I'm a brit and wanted to stand up for our smaller brands ;) Also would be interesting to see to see getting something like the wattshop extensions vs the standard ones Bryan had.
Also note that is a 2017 trip suit, not the Flow suit that Ollie used from Nopinz 🤦♂️
this answered my question; using their newest suit i suspect may be better as its designed for higher speeds; annoying/damaging when they say a brand but dont say which suit it is.
@@garychambers714
Super cool video!
awesome enlightening video! great
What??? Very impressive!
Love ur bibset man 🖤
Damn, check out that Bespoke Chainrings chainring. 😍
I run all bespoke rings. 61,62, and 63T. I also run an 11/128” (11spd) chain on the track too. Just for a little better aero gain and better drivetrain efficiency
Hi ! Have you tested Aero Calf Sleeves like those form Zoot (Elite Aero Calf Sleeves) or Huub Aero Calf Sleeves. Huub claims that these Claf Sleeves save up 8 Watts, if this is ture i would be a huge gain for only 50 Bucks. I very curious how these aero Calf Sleeves perform vs perfecly shaved legs. I would realy appricate an answer. Best from Germany Eddy
Triathlon, you forgot to mention to take this information to my next triathlon. I have always just ridden my road bike in triathlons, but seeing this I may at least have to buy some aero bars and practice riding like that. I'm all for saving watts. Oh, and of course best of luck Bryan!
where did you get the aero orange helmet from ?
How fast is a disc/5 spoke compared to a normal 30mm or 60mm wheel?
How many watts do you save?
Does anyone know that?
@Seppe De Vos Tank you! That are some decent numbers...
It will depend on wether you're inside a roofed velodrome (somewhat laminar flow) or outside (turbulent flow) and what the wind conditions are (low to high turbulences, angularity of the flow). The 5 spoke front thing here in this video, is only applicable to velodrome conditions and could work as an approximate for outside conditions in low turbulences (desert flat, low wind, colder day) and small wind angles.
Back to your questions, your 30mm wheel will never provide any significant "attachment" effect of the flow to the wheel profile at such speeds (30 to 50km/hr). It's only at around 45 to 50mm a section that you will start to see real gains.
0:41 Bro lives at Walter White's house
Hahhhahhaha
19 mm tubs @ 210 psi. Yep, that's a track bike.
Wow...shocking that the 5 spoke was just as fast as a disc on the front.
a disc is faster than a 5 spoke (obviously) look at every hour record.
@@albr4 yeah that’s what I’d think. Especially in situations where the rider has no obligation to be sponsor correct like Dan Bigham or Alex Dowsett last year.
@@95TegSE literally every track race where they want to go fast; individual pursuit, team pursuit, hour record, they all use double discs and it's basic aero knowledge that a solid object is faster than a hollow object, I'm not sure what this guy was thinking, maybe he was referencing the outdoor velodromes or perhaps he's forgotten that the wind tunnel has laminar flow whereas on the track it's more turbulent. The sole reason we all don't ride around using solid disc wheels on the road is because of the lack of crosswind stability.
@@albr4 funny enough Aerocoach did release a road front disc last year and I was scratching my head. Apparently there’s nothing in the UCI rules that prevents you from running a front disc in a road TT, it’s just generally not practical in most circumstances.
lol at 4:00 I happened to sip my coffee at the same time as jeff
Ingmaaaaar!
When you are at that stage where actual training turns to marginal gains😶
Is a high stack really a high stack, if it’s stacked on top of a really low base bar?
The key is, are the pads where they need to be to optimize shrug and head position, and the stack works itself out depending on base bar height. IOW, it’s not stack height, but pad height, that matters.
Can you comment on the No Pins fabric? Did it not have any air tripping qualities?
Texture over your legs, huh? Time your leg shave strategically for the perfect race-day aero 5 o clock shadow!
does this mean a higher stack is also better for crit racing. instead of lowering frontal area with a huge saddle to bar drop you can do it by bending the arms and take away the frontal area of the arms too while opening the hips.
I did this on my training bike and it's worked out quite well actually since I'm almost guided into a naturally elbows bent position in the hoods, mind you my fit isn't relaxed by any means, just a little more relaxed. ;)
Come on. You could have at least used the lastest suit from Nopinz (and spelt the name correct). That suit went out of use in 2017/2018!!!
That's a big chainring jeez 0:28
Bespoke chainring- 63T
I wonder about gloves. They mentioned fabric over cylinder type shapes.
The catch is that many gloves bunch up, gotta get the tightest fitting ones
I'm a MTB rider, and aero positions don't matter when pedaling up technical hills, but that is an amazing power loss from sub-optimal positioning.
Good luck Bryan. Hope that you have some success (unless you're competing against Aussies).
did they do a bike fit too? i always thought the arms should be about 90 degrees from the torso, looks like he had alot of adjustment to move the saddle forward.
I was so surprised at the skinsuits order, good to know.
That’s an old model Nopinz suit. 2017. So not a relevant test at all
What ended up being the fastest solution for shoe covers?
@todd Manley Short Velotoze with tall aero socks. I was using Velotoze aero socks here
This is old but I hope you still answer this. I notice your crank is not aero crank, why? You set everything up for aero but crank still the standard shape. Or it is does not have aero benefits as we thought?
People have died running into the back of parked vehicles with that head position. Be careful!
30 watts is my guess. at the beginning of the video.
NorCal cycling what do you think about wearing aero gloves considering that is the first part of your body the wind touches?
which nopinz skin suit was it; they have several different ones?
How do crosswinds, or just the yaw from the natural weaving of the bike with pedal stroke affect those results? And did you look at the optimum between extreme aero and position you could put max sustainable power out? Plus shrug v actually being able to see ahead? Guess my question is essentially what’s real world gains do you make v. wind tunnel gains?
surely doing track testing would have been more useful than a wind tunnel to go faster on the track ?
Sounds like someone doesn't have access to a multimillion dollar wind tunnel. /s
I think the reason is that Brian's main velodrome for training is outdoors, at that point testing would have too many variables to be Considered accurate
And I actually have done a bunch of testing outside too. But yes, wind in this region makes it very very hard to get accurate data that would apply while racing on an indoor velodrome.
@@bryanlrsn7 fair yh outside testing isn't the one. How did it compare to wind tunnel or was it incomparable / you been velodrome testing indoors?
As a Belgian, seeing Remco Evenepoel in his TT position is crazy. Looks almost painful as a amateur cyclist.
more track content. excellent.
bryan bike check??
As in you want a breakdown on my bike? Not a bad idea…
@@bryanlrsn7 yes!!
Ahh so that’s why I’m slow… cuz I got huge guns!
So jeff in a road bike perspective, slamming the stem is in the past? Shrugging, even if a high stack height, is more aero?
Yes if you are always shrugged but you have to think of the times you’re sitting up or in the drops
This bike was really easy to assemble ruclips.net/user/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA and required very few adjustments out of the box. The wheels did not require any truing/adjustments. The frame had some small scratches, but nothing major.I did replace the seat though - the seat it came with was very uncomfortable. The tires need to be re-inflated every 4-5 days, but this appears to be quite common for the narrow 700x25 tires.Overall, in my opinion, this bike looks and rides like a much more expensive bike.
Jeff, When does CTC start?! have you selected anyone yet?
Is the sale of Mikes Bikes going to affect your racing??
Raising your stack gets your hands in a position to break the air before it hits your body, same concept on ocean ships when they have the bulb on the front of the hull just under the water
surprised to hear one factor at a time testing instead of statistical designed experiments changing multiple factors to find interaction effect too
I'd say 50 watts.
great video, I wasn´t aware of the shrug before, will try that tomorrow, jaja. You didn´t mention socks/shoe covers, any gains there?
10ish watts wearing Velotoze and aero socks
@@bryanlrsn7 not bad for the price of socks
Did you do their noon race too? Tell me that will be in a race breakdown.
@ Lionel Sanders - on his way from 2 to 1
I legit guessed the difference between the two positions to the watt.
which model suit was it that you testet from nopinz?
That’s a trip suit. Went out in 2017/18 So not the lastest Flow suit
@@garychambers714 someone in the TrainerRoad forum TT thread mentioned they tested the newest NoPinz Flowsuit super slow though. Something like 20w slower than Santini or Velotec, while others test them incredibly fast. As with anything TT related, skinsuits are very personal.
@@95TegSE yeah I’ve also seen people test and it’s the quickest. Like you say, super individual to the rider.
@@garychambers714 agreed. I’m still wearing a 2017 NoPinz tripsuit and it seems fast on me compared to other suits, but I haven’t done any real testing yet.
@@95TegSE yeah so rider dependant isn’t it.
You brought a Felt bike to the Specialized wind tunnel? You must be paying them for the wind tunnel time!
11:54 - WHAT!? Is that a typo!? 210psi ??
Not a typo
Great video! I am experimenting with different stack heights on my TT bike - can someone recommend an online bikefitting service that specializes on tri/tt?
where are you located?
@@bryanlrsn7 In Tübingen, southern Germany - actually quite far away from the win-tunnel :)
I would watch out calling other skin suits 'slow'. They might be faster in other situations than the one tested here. This only shows that this skinsuit was fastest for Bryan, with Bryans equipment, at this particular wind tunnel setting (speed etc.).
*dude im fucking feinding fuck winter and snow i need to get on the road, i can t wait, im gonna smash every chaance i get*
I'll take this information into my next wind tunnel race, thanks... not
really like this vid however every bit of test footage was done without looking forward, I assume you are only riding on track if are you looking down the entire time?
No such thing as turning right
@@bryanlrsn7 all you need to see is the line and the wheel in front sometimes
80 watts
If there is no compromise being 4cm higher where you can shrug. why do you want to get lower?
It’s the WIN TUNNEL smh
How can you see in that position?
Your eyes only show you scary things so I prefer to use my other senses.
The reality is in a solo track event you only need to look slightly ahead of you
@@bryanlrsn7 thx for giving me the best response ever haha (just did my 1st hellyer summer season)
generally the track has lines to follow....kind of like a swimming pool...
Its Nopinz, unless Nopins is a knock off brand! :) And which Nopinz suit - there are several.