November 2023 update: With the first benchmarks for the MacBook Pro M3 Max showing a similar CPU score to the M2 Ultra, it’s worth taking a good look at that option now, as you can have a portable machine with similar power. (Although the RAM maxes out at 128GB)
Thank you very much for the video. Finally a composer doing this, i don't need the 20st comparison for video render speed. I now ordered a MacBook Pro M3 Max 128GB, looking forward to see what this machine is capable of!
@@simonseeberger7019 Would you mind commenting again once you test it for a few days with a big project? I am in the same place, deciding whether to buy Studio or M3MAX Pro but I really worry about MacBook overheating and throttling due to the sustained load. Studio has still much more space there and a bigger fan.
@@danmatousek The 14/16" MacBook Pros don't throttle during DAW usage because the GPU cores sit mostly idle. I've had several variations of the M-chips so far: M1, M1 Pro, M2 Max, and the only times I've had my MBP run warm enough to spin up the fans to an audible level is when doing something that taxes the CPU and GPU simultaneously, like gaming or doing a Blender 3D render, but never during music production. The uneven start/stop nature of DAWs don't push the cores as hard as a synthetic benchmark like Cinebench and without the GPU cores engaged the SoC doesn't get hot enough. They're dead silent for audio, which is one of the reasons why so many musicians use Macs.
Former apple store employee turned TV composer here: my endless thanks goes out to you, this is quite literally some of the best info I've ever seen for music people on how our computers work.
@@notsure1135 Not by default, no. It will only use the performance cores. This can be adjusted, but isn't recommended because the E-cores aren't as powerful and will overload more quickly.
3 Pro Tips: You can clean the ram by opening the terminal and typing sudo purge then type your password (it won't show your password being typed). This cleans up RAM and some of the purgeable space on your SSD. So don't buy some app that cleans RAM because the tool is built into Mac OS. Also if you want to know down to the kilobyte how much ram each app is using just type top into the terminal it will give you a true breakdown of RAM, shared, cached memory, and CPU for each application. To quit top just hit the q key. Also on MacOS the Swap size is based on how much RAM you have. So 32GB and higher will only have a 1 GB swap, 16gb of RAM will have a 4 GB Swap and 8GB of Ram will have up to 10 gb of swap. You can cut down on the swap usage if you use a chrome based browser like Chrome, Opera, or Vivaldi, by going into the browser flags and disabling Swap. 99% of people never use swap from audio or video apps but background browser tasks will use it more than anything else. Great video by the way I just upgraded from a M1 Max Macbook Pro to a M2 Ultra with 128gb of RAM & 2TB drive so your review has been very helpful!!! Cheers!!
@@DavidKudellMusic Love the video I just got my M2 Ultra Mac Pro and I have been setting it up all day. The M2 Ultra is a beast compared to even my M1 Max. I wanted the Mac Studio but the wait time is crazy for those right now if you special order a configuration so I just went with the Mac Pro, I basically got it for the same money after selling my fully loaded M1 Max 16 inch Macbook Pro. But the Mac Pro is REALLY big and I wish I had just waited on the studio for 4 weeks.
@@cbhrcbhr Yes as much as the OS deems necessary to purge but you must do a full restart after running the purge command to clear more purgable space. But just to clear the swap you can quickly log out and log back in after running the purge command. To keep your swap usage from being too high do this and you'll see a dramatic drop in swap usage. The most important thing you can do is turn off the Swap flag in a chrome based web browser since it will run in the background even if you never open the browser. So if you use Chrome, opera, Vivaldi or a chrome derivative you would type into the browser searchbar the name of the browser such as chrome://flags or vivaldi://flags and search for swap and change it to disabled and swap should be used FAR LESS and it will let your ssd last longer. Cheers!!
Finally ! Someone did it!... It’s so hard to find useful infos about tech from artists & composers, most of the time people just play the same midi / audio clip until system overload but that definitely not representative of how our workflow runs. Thank you and good luck with your work 🙏
I switched to a Mac Studio Ultra (2022) toward the end of the "growing pains" season, where everyone was finally starting to become compatible with the M1. It's been working great! I had originally tried the M1 Max and it was not up to the task.
Excellent info David, thank you! I just set up a new M2 Mac Studio Ultra 64GB 4TB and put everything on the internal. I am surprised by Kontakt loading times. For video work though, the internal is great.
I’m not using a lot of sample based orchestral instruments like you do but I’m using a lot of VSTs and I went for a base Mac mini M2 PRO with the ram upgraded to 16M and the internal SSD to 1TB. I have a 2T USB4 external SSD. I’m always amazed how this thing doesn’t break a sweat even with a large project with dozens and dozens of VSTs, with automations and side chains all over the place. I’m only bouncing tracks that are using external instruments now. And even then I’m still running all the signal chain, only the raw audio signal out of the audio interface is bounced.
M2 Pro looks like a decent processor for composing. Surprisingly, M3 pro is not a better choice, as they reduced the performance cores, which affects DAWs.
@@sanaksanandan Yes since the M1 Apple has increased the number of efficiency cores relative to the number of performance cores. It looks like not all DAWs are using the efficiency cores so they run better on machines with more performance cores regardless if they are M1, M2 or M3. However I’m pretty sure that since reaper and other DAWs are capable of using both efficiency and performance cores, other DAWs will follow. Maybe that in the M1 era where a 12 cores chip had 2 efficiency cores and 10 performance cores it was more beneficial to just use the performance cores. But now that M3 chips have about a 50/50 ratio of performance vs efficiency cores it’s no longer a good ideal to just use the performance cores.
@@Pintosonic Hopefully, DAW makers optimise their software soon.There is no need to increase the efficiency cores, when they are so powerful. That too in Pro chips. 2 cores will be plenty for casual use.
Thanks for the info David!! This is perfect in that I'm currently getting by with a 2017 iMac making sacrifices to not overload my system. This week I went into my studio to build on a song to find a black screen with a folder with a "?"!! Can you say panic! 8 new songs built on this computer. I was able to recover but I'm going to upgrade on my terms (while the computer is still working) and have had enough of compromises to save cpu. Lots of videos full of info regarding the need for lots of gpu from video content creators. I've learned that the key for me with audio recording will be cpu, which brought me to the studio ultra. Your info pushed me over the top...I'm going in!! Based on your info I'm not going to upgrade past the standard config of 64GB ram and 1TB HD. THANKS for your effort on these tests!
This is such a great overview and tests for things I work with everyday. Thanks for all this work! Your videos are really aimed at the pros who deal with these issues. I learned some valuable new things. Waiting on new Mac studio now.
Will be interesting to hear what you think about the new ranges (M4), about to be launched soon........ I'm looking to make a purchase soon from my Intel, iMac 2019 with 16GB Ram!
Recently learned that above the M1 Pro, you are basically wasting money on the new chips, unless you need to edit 8k video etc. They simply do not aid music production. At least according to James Zahn on RUclips. Great work! Super helpful video. 🎉🎉
@@thenext9537Well it makes a huge difference because the base and max ram have gone up, and in general having a better gpu is helpful for many people who do other side jobs like graphic design, ai art, or video editing (or the odd video game). But I would always recommend getting last years model at a discount just to get the most lifespan and performance out of your machine.
Really appreciate that you took the time to do this! There’s almost no content out there regarding Macs and composers. I just ordered a M2 Ultra Mac Studio with 192GB RAM and 2TB internal. I’m later going to add a 16TB external RAID from OWC (the 4M2) to host both Dropbox and samples. Currently I have an assortment of 4TB SSDs. It makes me feel better seeing how successful you were with a similar setup!
Thank you David, very helpful, 2 years ago I step in the orchestral composition, now I understand why I'm very limited with my macbook pro M1 pro with 16 gb of RAM lol ! thanks mate for the explanation
Currently on a M1 MBP 14", 16gb of RAM and 512gb HD. I'm not a composer that uses tons of VI's, but I record bands and use plug ins like most do. My only regret with this layout on this machine is I wish I got more HD space. The 16gb of RAM for me is more than enough for not only my music, but I tinker around with 3d design and printing as well. This machine handles that effortlessly. My mix sessions are typically somewhere around 30-60 tracks. Reaper's performance meter says I'm using about 1.2gb of RAM, and barely 10% of the CPU at only the most intense peaks.
Interesting. I get amazing performance from a windows 10 i9-10900KF/64gb build I did a couple years ago. No mater how much I throw at it it just asks for more. I rarely hit 50% CPU, and no crashes ever. I've always been curious about apple silicon not as something to buy but rather a very interesting in-house processor. Tempting. But I needed full control of my PC build as well as hardware costs that didn't have an addition 'tax' on top of what the true value should be, like with RAM. I can always add or replace key components with ease, that is very important. But if I had money to burn I would take a M2 for a ride around the block for sure, hopefully getting used to OSX which has always been hard to do for me. Great video. Seems like a real beast, your M2.
I have both a Ryzen 9 PC ( 64gb ) and an M2 Macbook pro ( 32 gig ) I don't compose full orchestral scores but I do pretty large dance based productions ( up to 200-300 tracks ) I've never had a problem with either from a RAM perspective to be honest, they're both fantastic machines. I also use external SSD's for all of my libraries and productions ( never the internal drive ) and have never had issues ( no way am I paying Apple prices for SSD's either ) I also don't need anything like the RAM specs in this video. The bottleneck for me is always the CPU but you need an awful lot going on for that to happen.
@@billB101 Yeah its pretty nice the options we have today. I built my audio PC for $1600. More computer than I'll ever need unless future DAWs and VSTs need quantum computing or something. Now my gaming PC I built for $1400, a 3060ti i7 config. I'm amazed at just how 'mid' it is, the PS5 I have looks and plays just as good as my gaming PC. Seems the gaming demands are way way larger than audio production today. Which makes sense why most producers I know use gaming laptops to make beats today. THey can be had for under $1000 and since they aren't actually gaming on them they handle audio productions really well. I know very few producers with Macs, but the few I do are in 'pro' environments like film and TV (as compared to beats or edm stuff) where they are expected to be used.
Fab tests! Liked and subscribed despite me not using a Mac (yet). But next Laptop/DAW will be Apple Silicon based, so this is very useful. I was always concerned about the (mad) Apple prices for internal SSDs. Based on your tests using external drives seems fine, so this is very encouraging! Question: which external USB drives did you use for the tests? Thx!
Thanks for going through the trouble of doing those tests for Kontakt samples. Exactly the kind of info I was curious about before eventually purchasing one of these!
Grande David! Anecdotally looking at read/write speeds on my external 10Gps USB drives made me suspect such an outcome. Thank you so much for putting this thorough comparison together, it's really helpful. 🙏🏻
Oh David, I'm glad you stepped up to MAKE A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE and DID THIS FOR US COMPOSERS!!! Fellow M2 Ultra'er. YES your hope came true and it's clear your video has been helpful for us, a couple months in. You presented the info in a clear and consistent manner and it was easy to follow along. ( @ 7:50 I like how the Subscribe button lights up when you mention it ) I appreciate the tips 'n' tricks you called out along the way, things I hadn't paid close enough attention to. Now, I'm curious along the dimension of space and not just speed: are you getting close to running out of space on external SSDs, are you eyeing an upgrade to that? Since sample libraries keep getting larger. Have you looked into expanding to enterprise SSDs? Meaning, like the 30.72 TB and 61.44 TB options available from Solidgm and others. StorageReview has some takes on them, but again, it's not in a musician context.
Thanks for making this. I'm still using a 2010 MacPro and it's gotten a bit silly trying to keep it working. I liked having the flexibility to add RAM as I needed so it's a bit frustrating to be locked into a number especially when the Mac Studio is so expensive. Your video and testing helps answer some of the questions I had and will make upgrading my setup a bit easier.
I just maxed out my 2009 Mac Pro (flashed to a 2012 model) 2 weeks ago my video card died, so for a moment I considered getting a new Mac Mini. But decided to get a new video card. (As I might need the cash I have for a window repair) Then saw the price for a set of 2 CPU's (3,46 ones) + 128 Gigs of RAM and decided to get those as well. But that wil be the last upgrades possible (besides storage maybe), as I already have a fast NVME SSD thingy...
@@Henry0870 Hi Henry, two questions for you, please. Did you add the two 3.46 CPUs to the original system, or did you replace the original system with them? How did you integrate an NVME SSD in a 2019 Mac??
@ I took the CPU tray out, took the older CPU’s from the tray, put the new ones on it and put the tray back.🤷🏻♂️ The NVME SSD I put it on a PCI card, not exactly sure which one. I no longer use/have the Mac Pro. I’ve switched to a (used) Mac Studio M1.
Blackmagic Disk Speed Test is measuring sequential performance. Very relevant for large file transfer operations (e.g. video editing), and the figures manufacturers like to publicise, but not so relevant to reading lots of smaller files. A benchmark tool like AmorphousDiskMark or Jazz Disk Bench will show both sequential and random performance. The latter will be much closer across your drives, hence the numbers you are seeing.
I just bought a M2 Pro Macbook pro with 96gb of ram and 8tb of ssd. It has been the best investment of my life. I had a $5,000 custom PC before this and it had so many issues. I know that has more to do with the OS, but on my new mac, everything runs perfectly and my 5tb of sample libraries all run on my internal ssd. I’m embarrassed to say how long I suffered with Windows.
Thank you .I have seen a few videos in that many of the same plugin is inserted to a project to test the mac .How far it can go .I am suspicious of this as a test .I would rather see a variety of demanding plugins . On my slightly dated windows machine I loaded session percussion .A recent Kontakt instrument .The CPU was 40 to 50 percent .Other plugins .Mysteria and Vocalsynth 2 comes to mind .
Mate... this was brilliant! Just what we, composers, needed to tilt over, make the jump and spend money on something that hopefully will stand the test of time for the next 10 years? Here's hoping... ;-) Hope you are well!
Hey Nathan my friend! Glad it was helpful. And hopefully helps deciding what to buy….as I still am paying for my Mac Studio 😅 maybe some folks can skip the 8TB SSD and upgraded GPU to save a bit.
Great video. Thanks a lot. I would just add - just to make sure no one gets the wrong idea - the amount of RAM he’s talking about here is wasted unless you too work with this amount of huge orchestral sample libraries. (After all, most DAW users don’t). If that’s not your use case, 32 GB of RAM is perfectly fine. You might even be happy with 16, but that’s perhaps a risk you don’t want to take with a non-upgradable system.
IF you can afford a Thunderbolt 4 / USB4 external SSD, definitely use that instead of the internal drive, if for no other reason that it will minimize the TBW of the internal SSD.
I know. I am on the fence of moving my DAW to a Mac Studio, but the fact they use subpar flash chips and do not allow you to change change them yourself is really making me second guess going with Mac. Flash chips are a huge gamble. When they fail, it is without warning mostly and is a complete failure. I've had cheap SSDs last a decade, and I've had higher end SSDs crash and burn with very little use. Apple really needs to at least allow consumers to order new and same sized flash for the Studio line in case of failure. It is actually removable in the Studio devices so this makes no sense to me when these devices are thousands of dollars and if the flash fails in a year or two, your only option is buy a whole new machine.
Hi David, thank you actually testing out the RAM question, that info was just not available. Also, regarding the disk speed, you mentioned a USB drive. Was it connected to USB-A or C, and what was the max speed on the SSD inside 3G or 6G or 10G?
I believe USB-C, and I'm not sure about the speed of the SSD. It's a Glyph Atom. I have several of those models, these ones are the older style, they probably max out at 450MB/sec but since I have samples copied to them, they start to slow down a bit the more data they have on them.
Thanks David, that helps. Really great analysis of sample efficiency on different drives vs Kontakt and Sine. I wouldn't have thought to consider that different software instruments work with external drives differently. Well done! @@DavidKudellMusic
Many thanks David! As someone who is still relatively new to composing, this video is super helpful. I'm not even on mac, but it's great to know how little of a difference using an internal vs external drive makes, for samples
THANK YOU for taking the time to make this content. It must have been hair pulling to say the least. What useful info! I have always wondered the difference between internal and external drives on load times. So great to finally know!
I have a late 2013 imac 27" 32gb i5 with 1 tb hdd, it cost me 200$ yeArs ago, and runs like a champ, i can run cracked software to try things out, and its as fast as i need it. If i put a ssd in it itll be perfect but i can run 10 open windows with plug ins, ive had 40 tracks going, only a system overload rarely
This is an incredible benchmark, especially the speed comparisons between the internal and external drives. Definitely earned a new subscribe from me. Kudos, and thank you!
Awesome to get performance breakdowns with composer specifications! I've got the M1 Ultra 128 Gb RAM running a roughly 400 track enable/disable template, but I'm running into more CPU issues than everything else. I have about 35 stems groups in order to expedite the printing process, but in order to use this efficiently, I'm running a reverb send leading into each stem (great that I can do it all in one go, but obviously pretty taxing on any computer). I can also be a bit of a maniac with plugins, using a fair amount of soothe2/gullfoss among other cpu hungry processing..... All a long winded way of asking what your reverb/processing structure is looking like (I saw that you use the liquidsonics reverbs which are obviously notoriously stressful on the cpu - specifically seventh heaven and cinematic rooms). I've been wanting to start implementing some liquidsonics verbs in my template, but I'm afraid 35 of them might set my Mac on fire... I'd also prefer not to have to deal with the latency that goes along with running them in low cpu mode. Super grateful for any insight!!
I have parallel compression on my stem groups, so maybe 20 instances of FabFilter Pro-C, plus a couple instances of Cinematic Rooms and a few instances of Berlin Studio. Ozone on the master bus. That’s all for my starting template. Then add other stuff as needed.
Dude thank you so much for the time you took to make this video! Very helpful and informative as im in the market coming over from PC and these tests are exactly what i needed!! People like you make the world go 'round! I appreciate ya! :)
I am right now super impatiently waiting for them to put the M4 chip in the Mac mini. Can’t believe they skipped the M3. I really want to build a new music recording system. Once in a while, I think about building a PC because I’m just tired of waiting for them to put the for Chip in the Mac mini or update the Mac mini in someway. Advice?
Great video! The key with any Mac is get the right CPU/Memory config and get the smallest storage option for the OS/apps/project files. I keep all of my sample libraries on a USB-C external SSD. Their mark up on storage is ridiculous! A Gen 4 2TB nvme drive for a Windows PC can be had for around $100. Same read/write speeds as the Mac storage too. 1 TB seems to be the sweet spot but if you do video editing, 2 TB might be the better choice.
Thanks for the effort, as someone who is thinking about switching from an Windows machine to Mac Studio, this is quite a help with exactly the informations I wanted to hear! :-D
Thank you so much for the tests & this video! I've been using a huge PC with many MD drives (some on a dedicated PCI card) and my load times for orchestral libraries have become unbearable overtime. I guess a cluttered/old Windows installation does that, I might just make the switch! (and spend 2 weeks installing VSTs...)
Hi Thank you very much for your review I do not use so many tracks for my orchestral template as most of them are VSL VI instruments that I send to MIR PRO 3D One great thing in VSL is the Perf-Leg Patches, it is analysing the length of each note so it saves a lot on the articulation changes I have only 120 tracks in my Master Template but I use articulation changes when needed. Today I am using stereo output but I start to investigate into Dolby Atmos I have a Mac Pro 2019 with 64 GB and internal 4TB, 2 x 48" I have divided my internal so all my samples are in one partition I check from time to time if I am using the swap file, is so I re-boot When I start VSL I was using VE and VE PRO SERVER, this bring more CPU use as you add process for VE. Also having all instruments in Logic it is distributing better the load on the cores. I have used many configuration since 1976 !!! mostly Raid 0 arrays for my Samples A space killer is Final Cut Pro that I use on the project I am on.
Brilliant presentation! If you have a free moment to reply, I'd be so grateful. I'm curious what configuration you might recommend for a Logic Production system in 2024. I don't have a whole lot of plugins, and I would guess that I would never have more than 50 tracks in a project. (Most likely less than 25 for each project). I am currently using a 2015 iMac, i5 with 16gb of ram and a 1TB HDD. Plugins can take 20+ seconds to load at times, and I know it's time for a new system. Thank you, and Godspeed!
This is extremely informative. I'm not a composer (well I pretend to be) but I have been looking at the M2 Studio as an upgrade for my Intel iMac. This helps me a lot to decide how I should configure it. Thanks!!!
My PC desktop is on its way to PC Valhalla and I'm very much set on a Mac Studio. Best I can do atm is M2 Max, 64gb/1tb. I hoped my PC would last until M3 but apparently it's not going to happen :) I just hope the M2 Mac Studio will serve me well for the next 8 years or so. My plan is to connet it to a Dell U2724DE that serves as a hub, so I don't need another Dock and the new OWC 1M2 M2 chasis for some 4tb drive. Either Crucial P3 Plus or something in this price range.
This definately helped me. I have been creating jazz music on a Mid 2017 Mack Book Pro with 8gb of ram and a 256gb hard drive. I have been looking at upgrading to the Studio and was thinking the 64gb with 1tb ssd was a good option with a 2nd level Mac Studio totaling $3,000 USD. After calculating that It will take me 3 months to save up, I realized the M3 version will debut just 30 days after, so I will save another 1k for a $4k expense.
Thanks for doing this amazing video David. My MacBook M1 Max just died today (unbelievable) so because of the two week delay for Apple to fix it (luckily I’ve got Apple care) I couldn’t stop my work for that amount of time and Ijust got a new m2 studio maxed out. As far as I know the biggest advantage that I noticed using M1 Max, in terms of having a higher amount of ssd, is the virtualization of the memory on it when we are running low of physical memory. With that in mind, I wonder if the final test you made with 500+ virtual instruments at 1024 buffer size was with the vsts running in the internal ssd or external. I assume there’s a difference on these numbers thanks to this memory virtualization… Thanks buddy. I hope you’re well :)
@@randomhunter8593 the screen out of nowhere, just died. As a matter of fact, I received the machine yesterday and they confirmed the defect. Luckily I had Apple care :/
Only half way through, but firstly - im not a composer, im a dance music producer so our projects are MUCH lighter than what you demo'd here but Kontakt libraries for starts. In audio engineering school it was stressed HEAVILY to put something like Kontakt libraries on an ext drive. I did one better, and its on my NAS in my home (only do this if you have a good NAS with good drives in them). If im not home? I just map my nas to the studio im in (if they dont have Kontakt or the libraries I have, but most do). I make House/Dance music, not so much a "composer" so 2) I think higher RAM for YOUR usage is needed for sure. But I took a risk and bought a base model Mac Mini for producing dance music. I run alot of synths, ALOT of processing, I do my own sound design and I am absolutely AMAZED with an M2 chip and only 8gb of ram...The mac was almost laughing at me because the ram usage was so little. Probably just because of how it works and how fast the ram caches to the CPU that we cant look at ram the way we used to pre-apple silicon. My biggest test actually for seeing if a Mac Mini with only *8* GB of ram was good for me? Was actually video editing as Im both a music producer AND a cinematographer. Working with RED R3D file, ProRes 4444, ProRes RAW files, 4k/6k RAW, 4k/6K XAVC-I files, My 2020 intel i7 macbook Pro with 16GB of ram was just like "nope." But the M2 Mac Mini? Again...laughed at me and had no jitters, stutters, nothing. Even when I add alot of color grading, animated titles, it handled everything i threw at it and i didnt even change the resolutions to like 2k or even 1080p proxies. Ive yet to test anything like After effects (i have no hopes for that honestly) but for good ol music production that i do? You can get away with the base model of a Mac Mini BIG TIME. But composing using Kontakt Libraries with 150+ tracks? I can deff see my mac mini lighting on fire from something like that lol
Thank you for your detailed video! I would like to give a hint for the musicians who are currently looking for a new Mac for music production. Several friends of mine are professional music producers. One produces his music on a Mac Mini M1 with 8 GB of RAM. The other produces on a 2013 Macbook Pro (no joke). A friend from Italy who does big production with rock bands works on a 2010 Mac Pro. What I mean by that. If, like me, you're just upgrading from a 10-year-old Intelmac to the M architecture, you'll experience a quantum leap in speed. And where money plays a role, you can definitely consider whether a used Mac Studio M1 or even a used Mac Mini M1 would be enough. Of course not for people who work with huge orchestral sounds in the style of Hans Zimmer. And everyone here can briefly ask themselves whether music productions from 2014 somehow sounded like garbage, or whether music production ten years ago was already very possible with the tools of the time. My answer: yes, it was actually possible ;) For professional producers, these questions will certainly not arise at all, but for people like me, for whom music production is one of several mainstays, the question certainly does arise. Especially after the price ;) All the best for your future work!
Thanks so much for doing this! Been very happy with my M1 Ultra and had a gut feeling about all this stuff, but now I can give good advice with real world data to friends asking for tips!
I have just gone for an older MacPro 2019. It’s not yet been delivered so fingers crossed it should be amazing. I sat for hours figuring out what best suits my needs, recording hard rock, many virtual instruments and mixing at home using Universal Audio PCie cards. I thought the Studio although cheaper, newer and armed with M1/M2 processors were too restrictive in terms of expandability and inputs. Many thanks for this alternative view. Regards from London 🇬🇧 UK
That's still a beast and the nice thing is you can load it up with tons and tons of RAM, so you can even raise the pre-load buffers which will ease the load on the CPU. So a different approach but one that works the best with your system!
The new Mac Studio is really awesome! However when I drop Kontakt instrument preload size, I get sluggish performance. Not sure why. Thanks for the SINE preload setting tip.
Your SSD might be having trouble keeping up. I haven't seen that issue personally, but you could try putting half of your samples on two different drives.
@@DavidKudellMusic Possibly. My samples are mainly on a super fast thunderbolt case by OWC with 4 NVME m.2 drives in Raid-0. Not sure I can buy anything faster TBH. That box is for Orch samples only the others are on SSDs in another OWC Raid-0 box. I have an obscene 30TB of sample drive space but 4TB is the fastest. I will try a few things, thanks!
@@DavidKudellMusic BTW years ago I did a similar video-- but it was on Kontakt Multi vs One Instance per instrument. However to make it "real" I used a cue from Horner's Glory. Totally important to make these comparisons to music in a film with mockups from a real score with live orchestra not just demos using samples. ruclips.net/video/n4f1orqyZjM/видео.htmlsi=JbjVW3qrn2KiLkQm
Nice Video David, you should add your social media on channel customization in the Basic info tab on that way your social media links will appear under the main banner XD
Great useful video. Can you make a video on hardware compatibility with interfaces like Focusrite,, MOTU, etc. 12:04 Do all these work seamlessly with m2 ultra mac studio
Thank you so much for this. 1 question, for those of us who don’t do orchestral recordings, how much ram is necessary? For instance, smooth jazz or trap production with a max of about 60 tracks. 🎹♥️
It’s hard to say without knowing what instruments you’re using. I would recommend loading one of your most demanding tracks and seeing how much RAM that used, then take that into account when buying a new system, giving yourself some extra RAM to grow into if you need it. You certainly don’t need 192GB for non-Orchestral music. But whether you need 32 or 64 or 96 or 128 is dependent on what you’re using.
Good evaluation. One thing of note for the evenness of CPU utilization is that Cubase seems to be especially good with utilizing both the performance cores and the efficiency cores. For users of other DAWs, such as Logic and Ableton, those DAW make virtually no use of the efficiency cores and so the system runs out of steam earlier than a Cubase user would.
November 2023 update: With the first benchmarks for the MacBook Pro M3 Max showing a similar CPU score to the M2 Ultra, it’s worth taking a good look at that option now, as you can have a portable machine with similar power. (Although the RAM maxes out at 128GB)
Thank you very much for the video. Finally a composer doing this, i don't need the 20st comparison for video render speed. I now ordered a MacBook Pro M3 Max 128GB, looking forward to see what this machine is capable of!
@@simonseeberger7019 Would you mind commenting again once you test it for a few days with a big project? I am in the same place, deciding whether to buy Studio or M3MAX Pro but I really worry about MacBook overheating and throttling due to the sustained load. Studio has still much more space there and a bigger fan.
@@danmatousek The 14/16" MacBook Pros don't throttle during DAW usage because the GPU cores sit mostly idle. I've had several variations of the M-chips so far: M1, M1 Pro, M2 Max, and the only times I've had my MBP run warm enough to spin up the fans to an audible level is when doing something that taxes the CPU and GPU simultaneously, like gaming or doing a Blender 3D render, but never during music production. The uneven start/stop nature of DAWs don't push the cores as hard as a synthetic benchmark like Cinebench and without the GPU cores engaged the SoC doesn't get hot enough. They're dead silent for audio, which is one of the reasons why so many musicians use Macs.
@@tronam good info, thanks!
Thank God, your a composer, instead of a poser. 😂
Thanks for the info. As a composer, I’ve been using 64GB RAM on a 14 year old tower and I need to upgrade past El Capitan, so this was helpful.
Former apple store employee turned TV composer here: my endless thanks goes out to you, this is quite literally some of the best info I've ever seen for music people on how our computers work.
How your computers work? Did you know that Logic doesn’t utilise all the cores? Reaper performs better on silicon! Crazy!
@@notsure1135 Not by default, no. It will only use the performance cores. This can be adjusted, but isn't recommended because the E-cores aren't as powerful and will overload more quickly.
3 Pro Tips: You can clean the ram by opening the terminal and typing sudo purge then type your password (it won't show your password being typed). This cleans up RAM and some of the purgeable space on your SSD. So don't buy some app that cleans RAM because the tool is built into Mac OS. Also if you want to know down to the kilobyte how much ram each app is using just type top into the terminal it will give you a true breakdown of RAM, shared, cached memory, and CPU for each application. To quit top just hit the q key. Also on MacOS the Swap size is based on how much RAM you have. So 32GB and higher will only have a 1 GB swap, 16gb of RAM will have a 4 GB Swap and 8GB of Ram will have up to 10 gb of swap. You can cut down on the swap usage if you use a chrome based browser like Chrome, Opera, or Vivaldi, by going into the browser flags and disabling Swap. 99% of people never use swap from audio or video apps but background browser tasks will use it more than anything else. Great video by the way I just upgraded from a M1 Max Macbook Pro to a M2 Ultra with 128gb of RAM & 2TB drive so your review has been very helpful!!! Cheers!!
Thank you, those are some excellent tips. I knew about sudo purge, but forgot about it when I was doing these tests!
@@DavidKudellMusic Love the video I just got my M2 Ultra Mac Pro and I have been setting it up all day. The M2 Ultra is a beast compared to even my M1 Max. I wanted the Mac Studio but the wait time is crazy for those right now if you special order a configuration so I just went with the Mac Pro, I basically got it for the same money after selling my fully loaded M1 Max 16 inch Macbook Pro. But the Mac Pro is REALLY big and I wish I had just waited on the studio for 4 weeks.
@@joesalyers congrats! That will be a beast and you’ll be able to load it up with lots of storage!
Does the terminal "purge" is also purging the swap and "purgeable area" on disk ?
@@cbhrcbhr Yes as much as the OS deems necessary to purge but you must do a full restart after running the purge command to clear more purgable space. But just to clear the swap you can quickly log out and log back in after running the purge command. To keep your swap usage from being too high do this and you'll see a dramatic drop in swap usage. The most important thing you can do is turn off the Swap flag in a chrome based web browser since it will run in the background even if you never open the browser. So if you use Chrome, opera, Vivaldi or a chrome derivative you would type into the browser searchbar the name of the browser such as chrome://flags or vivaldi://flags and search for swap and change it to disabled and swap should be used FAR LESS and it will let your ssd last longer. Cheers!!
Did not expect that small of a difference between external and internal SSD times. Thanks for making this video! Truly helpful.
they are both ssd and nand chips almost identical
Finally ! Someone did it!... It’s so hard to find useful infos about tech from artists & composers, most of the time people just play the same midi / audio clip until system overload but that definitely not representative of how our workflow runs. Thank you and good luck with your work 🙏
Dude thank you. You've open my eyes so much. I didn't realize you could optimize the sine player to use less ram. Incredibly helpful video.
I switched to a Mac Studio Ultra (2022) toward the end of the "growing pains" season, where everyone was finally starting to become compatible with the M1. It's been working great! I had originally tried the M1 Max and it was not up to the task.
Excellent info David, thank you! I just set up a new M2 Mac Studio Ultra 64GB 4TB and put everything on the internal. I am surprised by Kontakt loading times. For video work though, the internal is great.
this is the most valuable video on youtube for modern VI composers considering new apple chips
I’m not using a lot of sample based orchestral instruments like you do but I’m using a lot of VSTs and I went for a base Mac mini M2 PRO with the ram upgraded to 16M and the internal SSD to 1TB. I have a 2T USB4 external SSD. I’m always amazed how this thing doesn’t break a sweat even with a large project with dozens and dozens of VSTs, with automations and side chains all over the place. I’m only bouncing tracks that are using external instruments now. And even then I’m still running all the signal chain, only the raw audio signal out of the audio interface is bounced.
M2 Pro looks like a decent processor for composing. Surprisingly, M3 pro is not a better choice, as they reduced the performance cores, which affects DAWs.
@@sanaksanandan Yes since the M1 Apple has increased the number of efficiency cores relative to the number of performance cores. It looks like not all DAWs are using the efficiency cores so they run better on machines with more performance cores regardless if they are M1, M2 or M3. However I’m pretty sure that since reaper and other DAWs are capable of using both efficiency and performance cores, other DAWs will follow. Maybe that in the M1 era where a 12 cores chip had 2 efficiency cores and 10 performance cores it was more beneficial to just use the performance cores. But now that M3 chips have about a 50/50 ratio of performance vs efficiency cores it’s no longer a good ideal to just use the performance cores.
@@Pintosonic Hopefully, DAW makers optimise their software soon.There is no need to increase the efficiency cores, when they are so powerful. That too in Pro chips. 2 cores will be plenty for casual use.
Thank you for making this!
Thanks for the info David!! This is perfect in that I'm currently getting by with a 2017 iMac making sacrifices to not overload my system. This week I went into my studio to build on a song to find a black screen with a folder with a "?"!! Can you say panic! 8 new songs built on this computer. I was able to recover but I'm going to upgrade on my terms (while the computer is still working) and have had enough of compromises to save cpu. Lots of videos full of info regarding the need for lots of gpu from video content creators. I've learned that the key for me with audio recording will be cpu, which brought me to the studio ultra. Your info pushed me over the top...I'm going in!! Based on your info I'm not going to upgrade past the standard config of 64GB ram and 1TB HD. THANKS for your effort on these tests!
This is such a great overview and tests for things I work with everyday. Thanks for all this work! Your videos are really aimed at the pros who deal with these issues. I learned some valuable new things. Waiting on new Mac studio now.
Really appreciate you taking the time to test everything David! I'm really happy with my M2 Ultra so far! Cheers!
Will be interesting to hear what you think about the new ranges (M4), about to be launched soon........ I'm looking to make a purchase soon from my Intel, iMac 2019 with 16GB Ram!
Recently learned that above the M1 Pro, you are basically wasting money on the new chips, unless you need to edit 8k video etc. They simply do not aid music production. At least according to James Zahn on RUclips. Great work! Super helpful video. 🎉🎉
Yep, I was hyped on the m2 and now m3 but I dunno now!
@@thenext9537Well it makes a huge difference because the base and max ram have gone up, and in general having a better gpu is helpful for many people who do other side jobs like graphic design, ai art, or video editing (or the odd video game). But I would always recommend getting last years model at a discount just to get the most lifespan and performance out of your machine.
That's correct. M1 Mac still remains the recommend purchase for musicians.
This is the vdo i been looking for man. Appreciate your time for making such a big advising vids . 🙏🏾❤️
Really appreciate that you took the time to do this! There’s almost no content out there regarding Macs and composers.
I just ordered a M2 Ultra Mac Studio with 192GB RAM and 2TB internal. I’m later going to add a 16TB external RAID from OWC (the 4M2) to host both Dropbox and samples. Currently I have an assortment of 4TB SSDs.
It makes me feel better seeing how successful you were with a similar setup!
Wow, congrats! I hope you love the system as much as I do. I scored a feature film on this system in only 2 weeks and it passed with flying colors.
That’s insane! Sounds like it passed the true test! Haha
Thank you David, very helpful, 2 years ago I step in the orchestral composition, now I understand why I'm very limited with my macbook pro M1 pro with 16 gb of RAM lol ! thanks mate for the explanation
Big thanks to you for going through all of this so other composers like me don't have to. Thinking about an upgrade and this was tremendously helpful!
Really appreciate all the hard work!
Currently on a M1 MBP 14", 16gb of RAM and 512gb HD. I'm not a composer that uses tons of VI's, but I record bands and use plug ins like most do. My only regret with this layout on this machine is I wish I got more HD space. The 16gb of RAM for me is more than enough for not only my music, but I tinker around with 3d design and printing as well. This machine handles that effortlessly. My mix sessions are typically somewhere around 30-60 tracks. Reaper's performance meter says I'm using about 1.2gb of RAM, and barely 10% of the CPU at only the most intense peaks.
Really well done David, thanks for taking the time to put this together!
Glad it was helpful!
Amazing, thanks for the comparison! 👌🙌 Still struggling with a 2015 iMac here. 😅
I cannot imagine how long this took! This is really useful for so many composers! Thanks for the hard work!
You're very welcome!
I'm composing on a Mac Studio M1 Max 32gb ram, and I have not hit any limits yet. I open a good amount of tracks and as many plugins as I want
Interesting. I get amazing performance from a windows 10 i9-10900KF/64gb build I did a couple years ago. No mater how much I throw at it it just asks for more. I rarely hit 50% CPU, and no crashes ever. I've always been curious about apple silicon not as something to buy but rather a very interesting in-house processor. Tempting. But I needed full control of my PC build as well as hardware costs that didn't have an addition 'tax' on top of what the true value should be, like with RAM. I can always add or replace key components with ease, that is very important. But if I had money to burn I would take a M2 for a ride around the block for sure, hopefully getting used to OSX which has always been hard to do for me.
Great video. Seems like a real beast, your M2.
I have both a Ryzen 9 PC ( 64gb ) and an M2 Macbook pro ( 32 gig ) I don't compose full orchestral scores but I do pretty large dance based productions ( up to 200-300 tracks ) I've never had a problem with either from a RAM perspective to be honest, they're both fantastic machines. I also use external SSD's for all of my libraries and productions ( never the internal drive ) and have never had issues ( no way am I paying Apple prices for SSD's either ) I also don't need anything like the RAM specs in this video. The bottleneck for me is always the CPU but you need an awful lot going on for that to happen.
@@billB101 Yeah its pretty nice the options we have today. I built my audio PC for $1600. More computer than I'll ever need unless future DAWs and VSTs need quantum computing or something. Now my gaming PC I built for $1400, a 3060ti i7 config. I'm amazed at just how 'mid' it is, the PS5 I have looks and plays just as good as my gaming PC. Seems the gaming demands are way way larger than audio production today.
Which makes sense why most producers I know use gaming laptops to make beats today. THey can be had for under $1000 and since they aren't actually gaming on them they handle audio productions really well. I know very few producers with Macs, but the few I do are in 'pro' environments like film and TV (as compared to beats or edm stuff) where they are expected to be used.
Fab tests! Liked and subscribed despite me not using a Mac (yet). But next Laptop/DAW will be Apple Silicon based, so this is very useful. I was always concerned about the (mad) Apple prices for internal SSDs. Based on your tests using external drives seems fine, so this is very encouraging! Question: which external USB drives did you use for the tests? Thx!
Thanks for going through the trouble of doing those tests for Kontakt samples. Exactly the kind of info I was curious about before eventually purchasing one of these!
Grande David! Anecdotally looking at read/write speeds on my external 10Gps USB drives made me suspect such an outcome. Thank you so much for putting this thorough comparison together, it's really helpful. 🙏🏻
Hey Silvio, glad it was helpful!
Appreciate the great amount of work you put into making this video. And it's just what I needed as I'm close to pulling the trigger on the Mac Studio.
Oh David, I'm glad you stepped up to MAKE A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE and DID THIS FOR US COMPOSERS!!! Fellow M2 Ultra'er. YES your hope came true and it's clear your video has been helpful for us, a couple months in. You presented the info in a clear and consistent manner and it was easy to follow along. ( @ 7:50 I like how the Subscribe button lights up when you mention it ) I appreciate the tips 'n' tricks you called out along the way, things I hadn't paid close enough attention to.
Now, I'm curious along the dimension of space and not just speed: are you getting close to running out of space on external SSDs, are you eyeing an upgrade to that? Since sample libraries keep getting larger. Have you looked into expanding to enterprise SSDs? Meaning, like the 30.72 TB and 61.44 TB options available from Solidgm and others. StorageReview has some takes on them, but again, it's not in a musician context.
Thanks for making this. I'm still using a 2010 MacPro and it's gotten a bit silly trying to keep it working. I liked having the flexibility to add RAM as I needed so it's a bit frustrating to be locked into a number especially when the Mac Studio is so expensive. Your video and testing helps answer some of the questions I had and will make upgrading my setup a bit easier.
I just maxed out my 2009 Mac Pro (flashed to a 2012 model)
2 weeks ago my video card died, so for a moment I considered getting a new Mac Mini. But decided to get a new video card. (As I might need the cash I have for a window repair)
Then saw the price for a set of 2 CPU's (3,46 ones) + 128 Gigs of RAM and decided to get those as well.
But that wil be the last upgrades possible (besides storage maybe), as I already have a fast NVME SSD thingy...
@@Henry0870 Hi Henry, two questions for you, please. Did you add the two 3.46 CPUs to the original system, or did you replace the original system with them? How did you integrate an NVME SSD in a 2019 Mac??
@ I took the CPU tray out, took the older CPU’s from the tray, put the new ones on it and put the tray back.🤷🏻♂️
The NVME SSD I put it on a PCI card, not exactly sure which one.
I no longer use/have the Mac Pro. I’ve switched to a (used) Mac Studio M1.
I am getting a macbook pro max3 128gb 2T to run Sibelius Ultimate. I agree. There are no videos regarding music scoring
Blackmagic Disk Speed Test is measuring sequential performance. Very relevant for large file transfer operations (e.g. video editing), and the figures manufacturers like to publicise, but not so relevant to reading lots of smaller files. A benchmark tool like AmorphousDiskMark or Jazz Disk Bench will show both sequential and random performance. The latter will be much closer across your drives, hence the numbers you are seeing.
Thanks that's great info, that explains the real-world performance vs the Blackmagic performance.
I just bought a M2 Pro
Macbook pro with 96gb of ram and 8tb of ssd. It has been the best investment of my life. I had a $5,000 custom PC before this and it had so many issues. I know that has more to do with the OS, but on my new mac, everything runs perfectly and my 5tb of sample libraries all run on my internal ssd. I’m embarrassed to say how long I suffered with Windows.
Thank you .I have seen a few videos in that many of the same plugin is inserted to a project to test the mac .How far it can go .I am suspicious of this as a test .I would rather see a variety of demanding plugins . On my slightly dated windows machine I loaded session percussion .A recent Kontakt instrument .The CPU was 40 to 50 percent .Other plugins .Mysteria and Vocalsynth 2 comes to mind .
Mate... this was brilliant! Just what we, composers, needed to tilt over, make the jump and spend money on something that hopefully will stand the test of time for the next 10 years? Here's hoping... ;-) Hope you are well!
Hey Nathan my friend! Glad it was helpful. And hopefully helps deciding what to buy….as I still am paying for my Mac Studio 😅 maybe some folks can skip the 8TB SSD and upgraded GPU to save a bit.
Incredibly Helpful video , i am really curious to know the formatting of your internal and external drives , is it APFS for external aswell?
I use MacOS Journaled for my external drives
Great video. Thanks a lot. I would just add - just to make sure no one gets the wrong idea - the amount of RAM he’s talking about here is wasted unless you too work with this amount of huge orchestral sample libraries. (After all, most DAW users don’t). If that’s not your use case, 32 GB of RAM is perfectly fine. You might even be happy with 16, but that’s perhaps a risk you don’t want to take with a non-upgradable system.
IF you can afford a Thunderbolt 4 / USB4 external SSD, definitely use that instead of the internal drive, if for no other reason that it will minimize the TBW of the internal SSD.
I know. I am on the fence of moving my DAW to a Mac Studio, but the fact they use subpar flash chips and do not allow you to change change them yourself is really making me second guess going with Mac. Flash chips are a huge gamble. When they fail, it is without warning mostly and is a complete failure. I've had cheap SSDs last a decade, and I've had higher end SSDs crash and burn with very little use. Apple really needs to at least allow consumers to order new and same sized flash for the Studio line in case of failure. It is actually removable in the Studio devices so this makes no sense to me when these devices are thousands of dollars and if the flash fails in a year or two, your only option is buy a whole new machine.
Hi David, thank you actually testing out the RAM question, that info was just not available. Also, regarding the disk speed, you mentioned a USB drive. Was it connected to USB-A or C, and what was the max speed on the SSD inside 3G or 6G or 10G?
I believe USB-C, and I'm not sure about the speed of the SSD. It's a Glyph Atom. I have several of those models, these ones are the older style, they probably max out at 450MB/sec but since I have samples copied to them, they start to slow down a bit the more data they have on them.
Thanks David, that helps. Really great analysis of sample efficiency on different drives vs Kontakt and Sine. I wouldn't have thought to consider that different software instruments work with external drives differently. Well done! @@DavidKudellMusic
7:32 yup, that's hard work! thank you so much
Thanks David. This is just what every composer shopping for a new Mac needs. Legend.
Thanks for a clear overview for composers. Wonderful!!!
Many thanks David! As someone who is still relatively new to composing, this video is super helpful. I'm not even on mac, but it's great to know how little of a difference using an internal vs external drive makes, for samples
Glad it was helpful!
Very useful comparison. Thanks.
THANK YOU for taking the time to make this content. It must have been hair pulling to say the least. What useful info! I have always wondered the difference between internal and external drives on load times. So great to finally know!
Finally the tests I've been waiting for my whole life! Lol. Super valuable information! Thank you so much!
I have a late 2013 imac 27" 32gb i5 with 1 tb hdd, it cost me 200$ yeArs ago, and runs like a champ, i can run cracked software to try things out, and its as fast as i need it. If i put a ssd in it itll be perfect but i can run 10 open windows with plug ins, ive had 40 tracks going, only a system overload rarely
4:09 hoo boy I’ve worked with a few Macs in my day and I can’t say I have ever seen memory pressure so low even with so much memory is in use
This is an incredible benchmark, especially the speed comparisons between the internal and external drives. Definitely earned a new subscribe from me. Kudos, and thank you!
Thank you so much, this is so helpful.
Titanic work, man! Thank you ❤
Thank you for making this video possible.. Literally no one in the RUclips community have been able to do this.. 🔥
Awesome to get performance breakdowns with composer specifications! I've got the M1 Ultra 128 Gb RAM running a roughly 400 track enable/disable template, but I'm running into more CPU issues than everything else. I have about 35 stems groups in order to expedite the printing process, but in order to use this efficiently, I'm running a reverb send leading into each stem (great that I can do it all in one go, but obviously pretty taxing on any computer). I can also be a bit of a maniac with plugins, using a fair amount of soothe2/gullfoss among other cpu hungry processing..... All a long winded way of asking what your reverb/processing structure is looking like (I saw that you use the liquidsonics reverbs which are obviously notoriously stressful on the cpu - specifically seventh heaven and cinematic rooms). I've been wanting to start implementing some liquidsonics verbs in my template, but I'm afraid 35 of them might set my Mac on fire... I'd also prefer not to have to deal with the latency that goes along with running them in low cpu mode. Super grateful for any insight!!
I just have 1 reverb send. Cubase lets you apply reverb to all your stems when you render so you don't need a reverb for every send group!
Thank you David, very interesting. This must have been a lot of work ❤.
Over 300 tracks running midi data? Seems quite a lot to me. Then again I don't do orchestral composing quite yet.
Good on you for making this video. Like you said, there is nearly no information on hardware for composers.
That was a ton of work. Many thanks!
Finally a useful video 🙏🙏🙏
Great job 👏
Wondering about your use of plugins (eq, compression ect.) and the way they affect the cpu
I have parallel compression on my stem groups, so maybe 20 instances of FabFilter Pro-C, plus a couple instances of Cinematic Rooms and a few instances of Berlin Studio. Ozone on the master bus. That’s all for my starting template. Then add other stuff as needed.
In Cubase, you can easily save your preferences as a preset ! And then you can load it on your other computers. 2:35
Dude thank you so much for the time you took to make this video! Very helpful and informative as im in the market coming over from PC and these tests are exactly what i needed!! People like you make the world go 'round! I appreciate ya! :)
I am right now super impatiently waiting for them to put the M4 chip in the Mac mini. Can’t believe they skipped the M3. I really want to build a new music recording system. Once in a while, I think about building a PC because I’m just tired of waiting for them to put the for Chip in the Mac mini or update the Mac mini in someway. Advice?
Great video! The key with any Mac is get the right CPU/Memory config and get the smallest storage option for the OS/apps/project files. I keep all of my sample libraries on a USB-C external SSD. Their mark up on storage is ridiculous! A Gen 4 2TB nvme drive for a Windows PC can be had for around $100. Same read/write speeds as the Mac storage too. 1 TB seems to be the sweet spot but if you do video editing, 2 TB might be the better choice.
Thanks for the effort, as someone who is thinking about switching from an Windows machine to Mac Studio, this is quite a help with exactly the informations I wanted to hear! :-D
Thank you so much for the tests & this video! I've been using a huge PC with many MD drives (some on a dedicated PCI card) and my load times for orchestral libraries have become unbearable overtime. I guess a cluttered/old Windows installation does that, I might just make the switch! (and spend 2 weeks installing VSTs...)
Hi
Thank you very much for your review
I do not use so many tracks for my orchestral template as most of them are VSL VI instruments that I send to MIR PRO 3D
One great thing in VSL is the Perf-Leg Patches, it is analysing the length of each note so it saves a lot on the articulation changes
I have only 120 tracks in my Master Template but I use articulation changes when needed.
Today I am using stereo output but I start to investigate into Dolby Atmos
I have a Mac Pro 2019 with 64 GB and internal 4TB, 2 x 48"
I have divided my internal so all my samples are in one partition
I check from time to time if I am using the swap file, is so I re-boot
When I start VSL I was using VE and VE PRO SERVER, this bring more CPU use as you add process for VE.
Also having all instruments in Logic it is distributing better the load on the cores.
I have used many configuration since 1976 !!! mostly Raid 0 arrays for my Samples
A space killer is Final Cut Pro that I use on the project I am on.
Thank you for this complete and honest test , What a surprise for the USB SSD !! It Saves me a lot of money
Brilliant presentation! If you have a free moment to reply, I'd be so grateful. I'm curious what configuration you might recommend for a Logic Production system in 2024. I don't have a whole lot of plugins, and I would guess that I would never have more than 50 tracks in a project. (Most likely less than 25 for each project). I am currently using a 2015 iMac, i5 with 16gb of ram and a 1TB HDD. Plugins can take 20+ seconds to load at times, and I know it's time for a new system. Thank you, and Godspeed!
This is extremely informative. I'm not a composer (well I pretend to be) but I have been looking at the M2 Studio as an upgrade for my Intel iMac. This helps me a lot to decide how I should configure it. Thanks!!!
Thanks David! Great information and exposition.
A recommendation for external drives are Thunderbolt SSD’s. OWC has a whole host of options.
My PC desktop is on its way to PC Valhalla and I'm very much set on a Mac Studio. Best I can do atm is M2 Max, 64gb/1tb. I hoped my PC would last until M3 but apparently it's not going to happen :)
I just hope the M2 Mac Studio will serve me well for the next 8 years or so.
My plan is to connet it to a Dell U2724DE that serves as a hub, so I don't need another Dock and the new OWC 1M2 M2 chasis for some 4tb drive. Either Crucial P3 Plus or something in this price range.
This definately helped me. I have been creating jazz music on a Mid 2017 Mack Book Pro with 8gb of ram and a 256gb hard drive. I have been looking at upgrading to the Studio and was thinking the 64gb with 1tb ssd was a good option with a 2nd level Mac Studio totaling $3,000 USD. After calculating that It will take me 3 months to save up, I realized the M3 version will debut just 30 days after, so I will save another 1k for a $4k expense.
Thanks for doing this amazing video David.
My MacBook M1 Max just died today (unbelievable) so because of the two week delay for Apple to fix it (luckily I’ve got Apple care) I couldn’t stop my work for that amount of time and Ijust got a new m2 studio maxed out.
As far as I know the biggest advantage that I noticed using M1 Max, in terms of having a higher amount of ssd, is the virtualization of the memory on it when we are running low of physical memory.
With that in mind, I wonder if the final test you made with 500+ virtual instruments at 1024 buffer size was with the vsts running in the internal ssd or external. I assume there’s a difference on these numbers thanks to this memory virtualization…
Thanks buddy. I hope you’re well :)
How or Why your M1 Max died? I deeply interested in to know how or why could such machine die!! Please!
@@randomhunter8593 the screen out of nowhere, just died. As a matter of fact, I received the machine yesterday and they confirmed the defect. Luckily I had Apple care :/
@@AntonioTeoli Thanks for the response!. Good to know you are with your M1 Max back. They changed the screen? or changed the entire Laptop?
Only half way through, but firstly - im not a composer, im a dance music producer so our projects are MUCH lighter than what you demo'd here but Kontakt libraries for starts. In audio engineering school it was stressed HEAVILY to put something like Kontakt libraries on an ext drive. I did one better, and its on my NAS in my home (only do this if you have a good NAS with good drives in them). If im not home? I just map my nas to the studio im in (if they dont have Kontakt or the libraries I have, but most do). I make House/Dance music, not so much a "composer" so 2) I think higher RAM for YOUR usage is needed for sure. But I took a risk and bought a base model Mac Mini for producing dance music. I run alot of synths, ALOT of processing, I do my own sound design and I am absolutely AMAZED with an M2 chip and only 8gb of ram...The mac was almost laughing at me because the ram usage was so little. Probably just because of how it works and how fast the ram caches to the CPU that we cant look at ram the way we used to pre-apple silicon. My biggest test actually for seeing if a Mac Mini with only *8* GB of ram was good for me? Was actually video editing as Im both a music producer AND a cinematographer. Working with RED R3D file, ProRes 4444, ProRes RAW files, 4k/6k RAW, 4k/6K XAVC-I files, My 2020 intel i7 macbook Pro with 16GB of ram was just like "nope." But the M2 Mac Mini? Again...laughed at me and had no jitters, stutters, nothing. Even when I add alot of color grading, animated titles, it handled everything i threw at it and i didnt even change the resolutions to like 2k or even 1080p proxies. Ive yet to test anything like After effects (i have no hopes for that honestly) but for good ol music production that i do? You can get away with the base model of a Mac Mini BIG TIME. But composing using Kontakt Libraries with 150+ tracks? I can deff see my mac mini lighting on fire from something like that lol
Thanks, that's great to hear! Yes, soft synths don't use nearly the amount of orchestral RAM as sample libraries do.
Thank you for your detailed video! I would like to give a hint for the musicians who are currently looking for a new Mac for music production.
Several friends of mine are professional music producers.
One produces his music on a Mac Mini M1 with 8 GB of RAM. The other produces on a 2013 Macbook Pro (no joke). A friend from Italy who does big production with rock bands works on a 2010 Mac Pro.
What I mean by that. If, like me, you're just upgrading from a 10-year-old Intelmac to the M architecture, you'll experience a quantum leap in speed.
And where money plays a role, you can definitely consider whether a used Mac Studio M1 or even a used Mac Mini M1 would be enough. Of course not for people who work with huge orchestral sounds in the style of Hans Zimmer.
And everyone here can briefly ask themselves whether music productions from 2014 somehow sounded like garbage, or whether music production ten years ago was already very possible with the tools of the time.
My answer: yes, it was actually possible ;)
For professional producers, these questions will certainly not arise at all, but for people like me, for whom music production is one of several mainstays, the question certainly does arise. Especially after the price ;)
All the best for your future work!
Thanks so much for doing this! Been very happy with my M1 Ultra and had a gut feeling about all this stuff, but now I can give good advice with real world data to friends asking for tips!
The video I've been waiting for more than three years! Thank you so much! Subscribed!
Most helpful! Resolved my external SSD uncertainties. Thank you.
Glad it helped!
I have just gone for an older MacPro 2019. It’s not yet been delivered so fingers crossed it should be amazing. I sat for hours figuring out what best suits my needs, recording hard rock, many virtual instruments and mixing at home using Universal Audio PCie cards. I thought the Studio although cheaper, newer and armed with M1/M2 processors were too restrictive in terms of expandability and inputs. Many thanks for this alternative view. Regards from London 🇬🇧 UK
That's still a beast and the nice thing is you can load it up with tons and tons of RAM, so you can even raise the pre-load buffers which will ease the load on the CPU. So a different approach but one that works the best with your system!
I believe Intel is the way to go
where can i learn the composing like you, can u guide
The new Mac Studio is really awesome! However when I drop Kontakt instrument preload size, I get sluggish performance. Not sure why. Thanks for the SINE preload setting tip.
Your SSD might be having trouble keeping up. I haven't seen that issue personally, but you could try putting half of your samples on two different drives.
@@DavidKudellMusic Possibly. My samples are mainly on a super fast thunderbolt case by OWC with 4 NVME m.2 drives in Raid-0. Not sure I can buy anything faster TBH. That box is for Orch samples only the others are on SSDs in another OWC Raid-0 box. I have an obscene 30TB of sample drive space but 4TB is the fastest. I will try a few things, thanks!
@@DavidKudellMusic BTW years ago I did a similar video-- but it was on Kontakt Multi vs One Instance per instrument. However to make it "real" I used a cue from Horner's Glory. Totally important to make these comparisons to music in a film with mockups from a real score with live orchestra not just demos using samples.
ruclips.net/video/n4f1orqyZjM/видео.htmlsi=JbjVW3qrn2KiLkQm
Nice Video David, you should add your social media on channel customization in the Basic info tab on that way your social media links will appear under the main banner XD
Good tip, I need to do that!
Fantastic dedication to excellence in doing all of this, David!
Hey Rolf! Thanks! Wish I was in Helsinki!
Huge thanks for your effort David! This video is extremely helpful. Looking forward to the second one. :) All the best!
2 days to get a Mac setup?
Great useful video. Can you make a video on hardware compatibility with interfaces like Focusrite,, MOTU, etc. 12:04 Do all these work seamlessly with m2 ultra mac studio
Thank you so much for this. 1 question, for those of us who don’t do orchestral recordings, how much ram is necessary? For instance, smooth jazz or trap production with a max of about 60 tracks. 🎹♥️
It’s hard to say without knowing what instruments you’re using. I would recommend loading one of your most demanding tracks and seeing how much RAM that used, then take that into account when buying a new system, giving yourself some extra RAM to grow into if you need it. You certainly don’t need 192GB for non-Orchestral music. But whether you need 32 or 64 or 96 or 128 is dependent on what you’re using.
@@DavidKudellMusic Thank you. Komplete ultimate stuff, (mostly the synth plugins, not the orchestral), maschine expansions inside battery 4, omnisphere, captain plugins, ez bass, cubase 13 pro, soundtoys fx rack, melody sauce. That’s pretty much it. 🎹♥️
Excellent job, man!!! Thank you for your sharing.
excellent tests and results. Thorough!
Thanks David for making this comparison.
Thank you so much for a real world video thats not just 150 omnisphere track. This is much more informative 👌
amazing video! this is what I wished was out when I bought my last mac. Thanks David!
Thanks @samplelibraryreviews after all of the helpful videos of yours I’ve watched, I’m glad one of mine was helpful for you!
My Scarlett 4i4 (3rd Gen) and my Yamaha E463 crash multiple times a day on both Windows and Mac. Why choose the expensive Mac then?
Back in the day we used to use Atari ST’s. They were amazing!!!
David thanks. This information helps resolve a few reservations about my future purchase.
Good evaluation. One thing of note for the evenness of CPU utilization is that Cubase seems to be especially good with utilizing both the performance cores and the efficiency cores. For users of other DAWs, such as Logic and Ableton, those DAW make virtually no use of the efficiency cores and so the system runs out of steam earlier than a Cubase user would.
THANK YOU!!!!!!! FINALLY A REAL TEST!!!!