Another important reason for heat exchangers working with water based coolant being rubber mounted, it electrically isolates them from the chassis. Electrolysis will corrode the thin aluminium tubes used in heat exchangers quite quickly.
Interesting I think that a proper radiator would be a better choice than a modded air intercooler and I'm not keen on drilling a hole into the water to air cooler. Still good to know.
New subscriber. Your definitely an interesting guy. I gotta buy some of your books. I’m slowly collecting parts for an M122 eaton blower swap into an 03 marauder and I have to build a custom Intercooler setup for it.
At 4:20 you mention that you'd had poor performance from some pumps, in a related video you'd mentioned problems with pump cavitation, particularly at full voltage. Suggestion: 1 Ensure that system is build for the cap pressure relief selected, 2 Ensure that reservoir cap is at least 50 mm higher than the IC and heat exchanger, 4 Ensure that there is at least 25 mm air space in top of reservoir when filling, 4 Add a Schrader valve to top of reservoir and use that to pressurise the system with compressed air in normal use. www.frozenboost.com/liquid-air-adapter/coolant-system-and-head-gasket-pressure-test-valve-p-76.html The addition overpressure provided to the entire system by the air pocket in the sealed reservoir will help suppress pump cavitation. There is still plenty of space for thermal expansion in the system and the pressure cap will vent if pressure builds up greater than the cap rating (0.9 bar 13 psig is typical)
Hi Julian this is by far one of the best descriptions Ive seen on a custom system. I know you said that you had an issue before you made a bleeder valve with the water not filling all the way on the heat exchanger . Im trying to develop a system for my EVO9 were I'm able to keep my stock intercooler and run a custom heat exchanger along the front of my intercooler thats 20"L by 3" H. Do you think I can resolve the issue that way and would it works since its 3"H? What do you think? also did you run a fan on the heat exchange?
Just look at the heat exchangers and see if any air will be trapped above the level of the filling pipe on that heat exchanger. If so, a bleed will be needed. The normal radiator fan helps draw air through my front-mount heat exchanger. I don't use any additional fan. Airflow through heat exchangers is best assessed by measuring aero pressures - covered in my aero book.
This is a great video… I have a system with similar components built for higher HP levels. I’m using a 5 gallon reservoir in the back, a fill reservoir up front with a 1.1 bar cap… I’m controlling it with an autometer Dual temp sensor controller. I’m trying to figure out the most optimal direction to plum the water and where to place the two sensors. I have them currently in the water path. Would you say its better to place the sensors in the air path?
Another excellent and very practical video, thank you. Do you have any thoughts on how to best select the intercooler core dimensions and frontal area available to air flow in particular? I'm looking at a build for a 4A-GZE in an AW11 MR2 and want to change to a water to air intercooler. One core that looks like a sensible size by eye is 2.9 in high x 11 in (or maybe 9 in) wide x 3 in thick. The available frontal area facing the air flow is 2.9 in x 11 in (or maybe 9 in). It feels like 11 in is more than required, but I have no reference to say if that's good or not. Any feedback would be welcome.
Thanks for the praise. Re the intercooling system - need more informationm, even to make a guess. The climate? The power you're expecting? Boost level and supercharger efficiency (or what temps you currently get before/after the intercooler)?
@@JulianEdgar For the Design Point - worst case future state, max boost, max rpm. 1.17 bar boost (17 psig). 0.258 kg/s air mass flow, Compressor Eff 74.6%, Compressor air outlet 121.2C, intercooler outlet 30.1C, IC thermal load 23.6 kW, Tamb 20C. Max bhp at flywheel ~300
@@JulianEdgar In the Crazy Ideas department, I'm thinking that one could build the IC core into a new plenum inlet which would greatly reduce the packaging hassles and create more space in a small engine bay. One obvious downside is having the IC downstream of the throttle, but I don't think that the IC core increases the plenum volume by a large amount as the liquid to air IC's can be quite compact. Does that sound like a bad idea?
@@lindsaydempsey5683 I think that yes, the heat exchanger core could be incorporated in the plenum downstream of the throttle. Honestly, with those numbers, I'd just go for the largest of everything that can be physically fitted in. I assume it's a road car, and that would also help in thermal mass ie there would be more volume of water in the system to absorb the intermittent temp spikes. However then note that especially with the mid-engine, when you've parked on a hot day after driving hard, the water temp in the system will rise a long way, and with the larger water volume, it will stay hot for a while after again driving off - ie in that situation, intake air temps will be relatively high both on and off boost for a while - eg 10-15 min. Re the front radiator and its opening size. You can get away with a small frontal opening if the air is ducted to the intercooler's radiator, and the exit from the radiator is into a low pressure area. My book on aero covers measuring these aero pressures so you can see precisely what is happening.
@@JulianEdgar Thanks again. Manon Racing Products do a very nice inlet plenum for this engine www.mrpltd.co.nz/product/16v-intake-plenum/ I looked at adapting their design by inserting a 3" x 3" cross-section liquid to air core (11" long) and estimated the change in internal volume (as that may affect throttle response). Assuming 70% of the core volume is air, the volume of the completed plenum only increases by ~43%, much better than I first thought. In answer to your points, this is a road car, the thermal inertia will be doing most of the work, it will only be on high boost for very short periods. I appreciate the heat soak comment, but my style of driving limits the right foot until engine and oil temperatures are in the right range and have evened out (delayed gratification in exchange for improved reliability :))
Hi Julian, i m trying to understend what size have to be the water air intercooler for my old discovery 2.5td .. i have several problem with space i unfortunately i cannot put anything that is very big. Can you give me some advice about the corse size should i look for?
@@JulianEdgar not much, original it has around 120hp, with the ecu mapp will be more. I need to improve efficiency for afford the Australian out back with 38°c or more :)
Great video Julian. Can you list the sequence of the water line connections between the various components, please? I assume hot water exits the intercooler and then runs to the heat exchanger prior to the pump. How does your water reservoir tie into the rest of the water line system? Thanks, Mark
Underhood heat exchanger - pump - front radiator - underhood heat exchanger. The reservoir is Tee'd into position between the underhood heat exchanger and the pump.
@@JulianEdgar Thanks Julian, I guess the pump is fine with the elevated water temp coming from the underhood heat exchanger. I was able to purchase the ebook of Car Electrical and Electronic Systems for work I'm going to begin adding a standalone fuel injection ECU and air-water intercooler on my 1952 VW Beetle turbo, but can't find anywhere to purchase Modifying the Electronics of Modern Classic Cars. Any suggestions where I can get it? Thanks, Mark
Hi Julian, I've ordered 3 of your books to help in building and setting up my intercooler system through my ECU. Finding an old Legacy intercooler water pump is near impossible in the US. Can I get your opinion on the following pump for a 350hp, 4-cyl, 2165cc, air cooled VW, fuel-injected, A/W intercooled, turbo motor, maximum 15psi boost, operating in 90 deg F ambient temp. Car is street driven (not raced). Here's the pump (www.jegs.com/i/Meziere/680/WP136S/10002/-1). Scroll down and look through the "Overview" section and the interior pump photos there. It seems like a similar internal design to the Legacy pump. Do you think this would be good, available alternative? Thanks, Mark
@@JulianEdgar According to your experience what is the expected IAT at 20psi boost and 20 C ambient T of my system which is: Large ebay Intecooler (core 250 X 220 X 115MM); personally adapted to my Mitsubishi 3000gt 780 X 330 X 45 mm Heat exchanger; Total system antifreeze volume aroun 4,5 - 5 litre ?
@@JulianEdgar Of course I'm doing it, but I'm not happy with the result...With my ex air to air cooler I was getting 49C (120F) wich is now the same with the much more complicated water to air stuff...
An intercooler is an example of a heat exchanger. So is a radiator, an oil cooler, and air con condenser, and air con evaporator.... etc. And what does "way far" mean?
Sure, I got your point. But one of the first things an auto journalist learns is to use (as much as possible) the vernacular of typical readers. And most people refer to them as 'water/air' intercooling systems. I don't think it conceptually changes the application of the videos.
Авто/Мото
Another important reason for heat exchangers working with water based coolant being rubber mounted, it electrically isolates them from the chassis.
Electrolysis will corrode the thin aluminium tubes used in heat exchangers quite quickly.
Good point.
use pure water :)
use antifreeze, it has anti rust ingredients
@@tartus4916you could, but depending on your location if it gets cold the water will freeze. So
Coolant is a safe option for cold places.
Interesting I think that a proper radiator would be a better choice than a modded air intercooler and I'm not keen on drilling a hole into the water to air cooler. Still good to know.
Great video! Very informative. I’m looking at making something very similar to my fiancé’s Nissan Figaro which is non- inter cooled from factory.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the informative video, subscribed
I like the use of riv-nuts as bleeder screws. Creative solution.
Thank you Carport. It was a real problem, because the items had already been powder-coated and so I couldn't weld fittings to them.
New subscriber. Your definitely an interesting guy. I gotta buy some of your books. I’m slowly collecting parts for an M122 eaton blower swap into an 03 marauder and I have to build a custom Intercooler setup for it.
Welcome aboard!
gday mate
nice craftmanship and done well !!!
Thank you
I made sure pump is loswest part of system as well
At 4:20 you mention that you'd had poor performance from some pumps, in a related video you'd mentioned problems with pump cavitation, particularly at full voltage. Suggestion:
1 Ensure that system is build for the cap pressure relief selected, 2 Ensure that reservoir cap is at least 50 mm higher than the IC and heat exchanger, 4 Ensure that there is at least 25 mm air space in top of reservoir when filling, 4 Add a Schrader valve to top of reservoir and use that to pressurise the system with compressed air in normal use.
www.frozenboost.com/liquid-air-adapter/coolant-system-and-head-gasket-pressure-test-valve-p-76.html
The addition overpressure provided to the entire system by the air pocket in the sealed reservoir will help suppress pump cavitation. There is still plenty of space for thermal expansion in the system and the pressure cap will vent if pressure builds up greater than the cap rating (0.9 bar 13 psig is typical)
That's a really interesting idea - and those valve fittings are also widely used in air suspension systems, so are commonly available.
Thanx. For the knowledge...
Tq.
You should add part numbers. Good video.
Hi Julian this is by far one of the best descriptions Ive seen on a custom system. I know you said that you had an issue before you made a bleeder valve with the water not filling all the way on the heat exchanger . Im trying to develop a system for my EVO9 were I'm able to keep my stock intercooler and run a custom heat exchanger along the front of my intercooler thats 20"L by 3" H. Do you think I can resolve the issue that way and would it works since its 3"H? What do you think? also did you run a fan on the heat exchange?
Just look at the heat exchangers and see if any air will be trapped above the level of the filling pipe on that heat exchanger. If so, a bleed will be needed. The normal radiator fan helps draw air through my front-mount heat exchanger. I don't use any additional fan. Airflow through heat exchangers is best assessed by measuring aero pressures - covered in my aero book.
Vacuum filing would also fill it without bleeder screw use.
Yes, that's a good idea
This is a great video… I have a system with similar components built for higher HP levels. I’m using a 5 gallon reservoir in the back, a fill reservoir up front with a 1.1 bar cap… I’m controlling it with an autometer Dual temp sensor controller. I’m trying to figure out the most optimal direction to plum the water and where to place the two sensors. I have them currently in the water path. Would you say its better to place the sensors in the air path?
ruclips.net/video/MqSwyKRNgEM/видео.html
I run a cwa 100 pump for my C32amg with a single by pass IC and front heat exchanger instead of stock duel bypass IC but my iat temps are not good
If you want a useful reply you need to give much more detailed information. ie what you have written means nothing much to me.
Anyone need help I do have a reservoir tank cmg that will be highest point of system
Do you have a part# for the Subaru legacy gt pump? I tried looking online dint find one. Thanks
No I am sorry I don't.
Another excellent and very practical video, thank you. Do you have any thoughts on how to best select the intercooler core dimensions and frontal area available to air flow in particular?
I'm looking at a build for a 4A-GZE in an AW11 MR2 and want to change to a water to air intercooler. One core that looks like a sensible size by eye is 2.9 in high x 11 in (or maybe 9 in) wide x 3 in thick. The available frontal area facing the air flow is 2.9 in x 11 in (or maybe 9 in). It feels like 11 in is more than required, but I have no reference to say if that's good or not. Any feedback would be welcome.
Thanks for the praise. Re the intercooling system - need more informationm, even to make a guess. The climate? The power you're expecting? Boost level and supercharger efficiency (or what temps you currently get before/after the intercooler)?
@@JulianEdgar For the Design Point - worst case future state, max boost, max rpm. 1.17 bar boost (17 psig). 0.258 kg/s air mass flow, Compressor Eff 74.6%, Compressor air outlet 121.2C, intercooler outlet 30.1C, IC thermal load 23.6 kW, Tamb 20C. Max bhp at flywheel ~300
@@JulianEdgar In the Crazy Ideas department, I'm thinking that one could build the IC core into a new plenum inlet which would greatly reduce the packaging hassles and create more space in a small engine bay. One obvious downside is having the IC downstream of the throttle, but I don't think that the IC core increases the plenum volume by a large amount as the liquid to air IC's can be quite compact. Does that sound like a bad idea?
@@lindsaydempsey5683 I think that yes, the heat exchanger core could be incorporated in the plenum downstream of the throttle. Honestly, with those numbers, I'd just go for the largest of everything that can be physically fitted in. I assume it's a road car, and that would also help in thermal mass ie there would be more volume of water in the system to absorb the intermittent temp spikes. However then note that especially with the mid-engine, when you've parked on a hot day after driving hard, the water temp in the system will rise a long way, and with the larger water volume, it will stay hot for a while after again driving off - ie in that situation, intake air temps will be relatively high both on and off boost for a while - eg 10-15 min. Re the front radiator and its opening size. You can get away with a small frontal opening if the air is ducted to the intercooler's radiator, and the exit from the radiator is into a low pressure area. My book on aero covers measuring these aero pressures so you can see precisely what is happening.
@@JulianEdgar Thanks again. Manon Racing Products do a very nice inlet plenum for this engine www.mrpltd.co.nz/product/16v-intake-plenum/ I looked at adapting their design by inserting a 3" x 3" cross-section liquid to air core (11" long) and estimated the change in internal volume (as that may affect throttle response). Assuming 70% of the core volume is air, the volume of the completed plenum only increases by ~43%, much better than I first thought.
In answer to your points, this is a road car, the thermal inertia will be doing most of the work, it will only be on high boost for very short periods. I appreciate the heat soak comment, but my style of driving limits the right foot until engine and oil temperatures are in the right range and have evened out (delayed gratification in exchange for improved reliability :))
Hi Julian, i m trying to understend what size have to be the water air intercooler for my old discovery 2.5td .. i have several problem with space i unfortunately i cannot put anything that is very big. Can you give me some advice about the corse size should i look for?
I guess the obvious reply is 'as big as can be fitted'. But it probably doesn't need to be very big - not a lot of power, is there?
@@JulianEdgar not much, original it has around 120hp, with the ecu mapp will be more. I need to improve efficiency for afford the Australian out back with 38°c or more :)
@@JulianEdgar anyway I love your video!
Great video Julian. Can you list the sequence of the water line connections between the various components, please? I assume hot water exits the intercooler and then runs to the heat exchanger prior to the pump. How does your water reservoir tie into the rest of the water line system? Thanks, Mark
Underhood heat exchanger - pump - front radiator - underhood heat exchanger. The reservoir is Tee'd into position between the underhood heat exchanger and the pump.
@@JulianEdgar Thanks Julian, I guess the pump is fine with the elevated water temp coming from the underhood heat exchanger. I was able to purchase the ebook of Car Electrical and Electronic Systems for work I'm going to begin adding a standalone fuel injection ECU and air-water intercooler on my 1952 VW Beetle turbo, but can't find anywhere to purchase Modifying the Electronics of Modern Classic Cars. Any suggestions where I can get it? Thanks, Mark
@@markberry5530 Amazon - www.amazon.com/gp/product/1787113930
@@JulianEdgar Bought it - thanks! :) Mark
Hi Julian,
I've ordered 3 of your books to help in building and setting up my intercooler system through my ECU. Finding an old Legacy intercooler water pump is near impossible in the US. Can I get your opinion on the following pump for a 350hp, 4-cyl, 2165cc, air cooled VW, fuel-injected, A/W intercooled, turbo motor, maximum 15psi boost, operating in 90 deg F ambient temp. Car is street driven (not raced). Here's the pump (www.jegs.com/i/Meziere/680/WP136S/10002/-1). Scroll down and look through the "Overview" section and the interior pump photos there. It seems like a similar internal design to the Legacy pump. Do you think this would be good, available alternative?
Thanks,
Mark
the water in my air to water system if foamy. I am thinking air gets in it somehow somewhere, am I correct or is it normal for these kind of systems?
Shouldn't be foamy.
I welded radiator cap on the highest point of the intercooler.Without an additional reservoir what issues I can expect?
No issues I would expect
@@JulianEdgar According to your experience what is the expected IAT at 20psi boost and 20 C ambient T of my system which is:
Large ebay Intecooler (core 250 X 220 X 115MM); personally adapted to my Mitsubishi 3000gt 780 X 330 X 45 mm Heat exchanger; Total system antifreeze volume aroun 4,5 - 5 litre ?
@@raponraponov4676 Why don't you just measure it?
@@JulianEdgar Of course I'm doing it, but I'm not happy with the result...With my ex air to air cooler I was getting 49C (120F) wich is now the same with the much more complicated water to air stuff...
Under what conditions are you now getting 49 degrees C, precisely? (Load, ambient temp.)
Do you sell the intercoolers
No.
Julian Edgar exactly
You arent starting out with water. Your starting out with air. To cool the air
Yes, I understand your point.
Good video BUT why are you calling the intercooler a heat exchanger? A heat exchanger is way far NOT the same thing as the intercooler itself .
An intercooler is an example of a heat exchanger. So is a radiator, an oil cooler, and air con condenser, and air con evaporator.... etc. And what does "way far" mean?
Air to water. Not water to air. Lmao 🤦🏻♂️
Air to water to air :)
Julian Edgar exactly
You arent starting out with water. Your starting out with air. To cool the air
Sure, I got your point. But one of the first things an auto journalist learns is to use (as much as possible) the vernacular of typical readers. And most people refer to them as 'water/air' intercooling systems. I don't think it conceptually changes the application of the videos.
No, this is what is known as a Water to Air intercooler.