Thanks for watching! Here's some awesome bike stuff I like & you might, too. (It also helps support this channel!) 🚲 PRIORITY BICYCLES (belt-drive bikes with hub gears): twowheelsbetter.net/go/priority 🚲 BROMPTON (reigning champ of folding bikes): twowheelsbetter.net/go/brompton ✅ BROOKS B67 (favorite saddle for upright riding): amzn.to/44JFQ2A ✅ BROOKS B17 (favorite saddle for hybrid & touring posture): amzn.to/3DE2nSc
Very underrated video. Clean easy to follow graphics, concise narration with great sound quality, and great detailed information, summed up at the end in an easy to remember list. Thanks for your work!
I have a Rolloff+belt on my touring/gravel bike. It takes a minute to get the wheel off. It doesn't get bashed about like a derailleur, its not dirty, doesn't get clogged up with mud. It has been mega reliable with just a few simple oil changes. I don't have to keep changing cassettes and chains. Ok, it is a bit heavier, expensive and fractional drag in lower gears. I have derrailleur on my fast road bike and my MTB🙂. Horses for courses.
Nice, I've heard nothing but good stuff about Rohloffs but could never justify the cost for myself. Sounds seriously worth considering for my next all-rounder... Glad it's working well for you!
One additional point in favour of hub gears: they are much less sensitive to tightly packed bicycle parking (hence why hubs are most popular in the Netherlands - also they don't have need for much range).
I grew up in the US in the 60’s and 70’s. Prior to the 70’s most adults didn’t ride bicycles and kids’ bikes here were indestructible steel single speeds with coaster brakes. But… there were these bikes we called “English racers.” Double diamond frame, skinny tires and a 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub. Those bikes were really nice. Sadly, I never owned one, but I rode a few of them. Those three speeds were smooth. Soon after, “10-speeds” took over. We all got derailleur shifters and the 3 speed hubs were pretty much forgotten. I think that’s sad, actually.
I have 5 bicycles all with different gears, the one with the rohloff I like most but is expensive. On different bikes I have used (and still do) a derailleur system. (mtb's) I kind of like these still the most because they have that direct light feel and it kind of looks better in my view. I'm retired now but to my work I mostly used derailleur bicycles and kept the oilcan close by. But if you wanna forget your chain and gear, use a internal gear hub and gates belt. I live in the Netherlands and travel only by bicycle. I know, we have the luxury of a modern sophisticated cycling infrastructure.
Great video with lots of real information. Just one thing. You mentioned derailleurs are a very mature technology because they've been perfected over a period of a hundred years. Just wanted to point out that internal gear hubs have also been around for 100 years, for example Sturmey-Archer, whose first 3-speed hub came out in 1901 or thereabouts. Thanks.
True, but hubs are still much less mature, because they sell 10 x more... For the same reason I probably won't buy a belt + hub bike to replace my 25 years old one, because they are twice the price of their equivalent - being produced in much smaller numbers than derailleurs!
Some things were already mentioned here, but some extra points. For our everyday bikes (we do everything by bicycle) we try to go for hubs as much as possible for all the reasons you mention and more. Good example is kids bikes. They can be rough with their bicycle and because of the smaller wheels, derailers are more exposed and prone to being hit. Similar in thight bycicle parks, having a derailer basically puts your chain out there to catch behind pedals and other things sticking out of other bikes. Another thing is some speciality bikes. We have a folding bicycle and a recumbent. Both vastly superior with hub gear. Folding similar to the previous points, exposed for shunts and messy esp with small wheels. Recumbent often have long chains which puts extra strain on the derailer spring.
More and more concerning bicycles I get convinced that older for the tech, and simpler is better. The road bike I bought new last year is a State brand, with eight in the rear, just one front ring, and has friction shifters and pad brakes. Once I got it into tune, it's been brilliant. Seems like there's less that can go wrong, less to worry about, and most of it (When I got reacquainted with the 1970s type components again.) is easier to deal with. Of course regular notched shifting can be almost trouble free too. The e-bike has been bulletproof for the 800 or so miles on it, and the Marin hybrid I've had for seven years has required very little for adjusting for brakes or gears. I don't think I'll be an easy sell for such a radical change with these internal hub types, especially with more weight of this to the bike mechanics out there.
@@twowheelsbetter_yt True. Before switching to Hub Gears full-time I sometimes made a conscious effort to downshift before stop signs and lights, but I didn't always do that so starting off was slow and hard.
Hub gear is heavier but total weight should be considered - you should substract weight of derailleur rear and possibly front too with two plates. So in total hub gears might weight less.
Good summary, graphics etc. Thanks! You forgot something important: a gear hub is like a single speed: you need a special frame that allows for tensioning the chain by sliding the rear wheel back and forth. If you don’t have such a frame, you need to add a chain tensioner, which kind of looks like the bottom part of a derailleur: added complexity, point of failure, and drag. If you break your chain and need to remove a link, it will likely not work any more. Removing the rear wheel to repair a flat is a big headache. Beyond what you want to do out on a trail.. I say that from experience with a Nexus 7.
Amazing video. I would just like to add that you can't exactly shift a derailleur under a full load either. For example going up a hill, you have to shift beforehand because the tensioned chain refuses to move sideways.
Thanks! Great point, glad you mentioned it. Always a bummer to dismount just because I didn't time the shift right. Also very hard to shift at low RPM, in addition to the tension issue.
I was all in for either a gear box, or IGH, but seeing how with a gear box one would have to keep that frame forever, and with a IGH the wheel is attached to it again not allowing one to swap out a tire for the snow, super thin, you name it. You’re stuck with said tire, and they are not the cost of a cup of coffee. I see myself going with a derailleur, either wide narrow, or 1by. I think the wide, narrow may be the better choice. Thanks for your work, and being concise with the information.👍
I got an old barn bike (20 years old) equiped with a Nexus 7. With no prior knowledge of bike mechanics I was able (thanks RUclips) to fully service and delete the coaster brake (that was internally broken), replaced the gear handle and cables. All in all, the handle + cables was 13€ , grease + oil (used automatic gearbox oil) were 20€. Bike had many mile, sat outside for many many years. And with only 35€ is back and works just great ! No rust had formed inside the hub ! This made me what you can call a pro-gearhub kinda guy 😂
What an incredibly informative video! Thanks so much. I am now adequately informed before my next bicycle purchase. I'd have made a choice that is not ideal for my needs otherwise. Subscribed!
The more gears on a derailleur the thinner the chain parts meaning chain stretch is more likely to occur, love to get a NuVinci hub but they’re not common in the UK. Interesting points though 👍
It's not really stretch, it's actually wear on the chain links that translate into the whole chain becoming longer and it doesn't happen by chance, it's mostly because of not cleaning and lubing the chain. If you don't lube and clean it, it will happen to the chain of your internal hub bike too. I also don't like the single derailleur though and use a 3x7 that has a thicker chain and good flexibility to change gears at low speed. Not quite as good as changing it without pedaling like internal hub but has many advantages, including the cost.
You forgot the fact that since Internally geared hubs are completely inside a shell, they are incredibly resistant to mechanical damage from outside forces such as the bike falling over, crashes, scraping by obstacles (rocks, branches or even high curbs, especially on smaller wheels) or even just a drunk person kicking your rear wheel while you bike is parked outside. Derailleurs are easily brought out of alignment, or even bent completely (or at least the piece of metal the hanger itself is bolted on to), while Hub Gears are usually not affected. Also since the chain on internally geared hubs is running in the same exact line you can put a chain case around the chain, vastly reducing the amount of maintenance on the chain, vastly increasing the life of the chain and preventing getting your legs, or your hands if you are lifting your bike, full of chain grime. Personally I only ride internally geared hubs. I can easily stop pedalling for a fraction of a second to shift, but I love the freedom to casually select my starting gear while being stationary. Also on steep uphills with derailleurs you kinda should keep pedalling, but don't do full load, since that wears out your casette or even break your chain if you are unlucky, which kinda becomes impossible. So you have to shift down way before you physically have to when running a derailleur, if you want to shift properly. With a Internally geared hub I can always stop pedalling and the shifting is near instantaneous. Running a Rohloff bike for touring and commuting, a Nexus 8 for city use and a SRAM S7 for my folding bike. I do all my maintenance myself, since once you know what to do it's actually super simple to change the oil on these hubs. I don't expect the Rohloff to break, but if the others eventually develop issues after decades or so that I can't fix myself, I'll just get a new one. They probably lasted such a long time already that I've saved more money on chains, cogs and bent derailleurs that I still come cheaper out on top than a derailleur. So while the upfront cost might be higher, the lifetime cost of hub gears is usually lower.
I think the matter of cost plays a role as well. If you're going for hub gears, buy good ones: that begins with Shimano Nexus 8s and Alfines right up to Rohloffs. A cheap derailleur, on the other hand, will often be fine since the tech is so simple. Typically, though, derailleurs will be cheap tech on expensive bikes, while hub gears are more of less the opposite. For everyday transport, however, nothing beats a good bike with decent hub gears.
Excellent video, just what i was looking for, before considering a (fairly) custom build for my next bike. Hub gears do look very tempting (especially with belt drive), but the price is just way too much for me to justify.
I was looking at the cheapest belt + hub I have found, a Cube Hyde but they are really 500 or 600 euros more expensive than their equivalent... and you lose a few % efficiency. I'll keep my 25 years old bike for now... the derailleur is perfectly fine (I only had to change the chain 1 or 2 times), only the wheels seriously need some balancing, at high speed I can't release my grip on the handlebar, else it goes wild!
When to choose between derailer and hub? Derailer: for the long distance, in the country side. Because the number of stops are limited. Think about red traffic lights, yield signs. These are very low in the country side. Hub: for urban areas with a lot of stops and long distance holiday touring that takes weeks, in not months. Then the reliability of a quality hub comes into play. I recommend either Rohloff or Pinion hubs.
I'd consider a internal transmission for a 500w el-bike conversion, but not for a manually pedalled traditional bike. At least for my hilly and wibe case of cycling conditions, from hilly forests with little weight to fully loaded with groceries up and down hilly paved sidewalks
Derailers can suck watts, but not at a percentage. A dirty system might take out 10 or 15 watts, but the 5-8% you lose with internal gears can be 100 watts if you're pedaling at 1500 watts like me
Can you make a video about ranking the best gear systems - external? With the best quality? I mean including the brand, number of gears. Like you mentioned a one drive chains with a rear deraileur and no front derailleur. Like looks a good choise as somebody who likes simplicity. But its hard to find this kind of bike.
Thanks for the idea; I'll keep that in mind if I ever do more review/round-up videos. 1x drivetrains are super common but it does depend on the type of bike you're looking for. For instance, ubiquitous on MTBs these days, but less universal on road bikes.
Great video, thanks! Just bought an old ebike, which has an old derailleur. After losing the chain a few times, I've bought an old 8 speed Alfine, which might be a better solution especially for a front hub motor ?! We'll see 😊
Update - I bought a carbon fiber rocket with 2x11 speeds. I'm happy for now. I'm in a financial position to get whatever I want in a bike. As I get older I might want something with fatter tires and a more upright riding position, but for now I tearing it up with this 17 pound wonder.
I ride a 50 year old Fuji. I have not adjusted my derailers in the past 10 or 20 years, other than to twist the tension wingnuts on the shift levers on the downtube, something that I do while riding if I happen to bump it off tension while shifting. I'm looking to buy a new ride, probably a CF or titanium frame. I want a ultra light bike, under 18 pounds if that is possible. I love the idea of a Rohloff hub, but I think the weight and loss of efficiency is a deal breaker for me. I really don't care about the cost, I paid $350. for my Fuji which is like over $2K today, and I have a lot more money now than I did back then. Considering I plan on riding this bike for decades I am willing to invest big coin. Any input would be much appreciated! 100% of my riding is on pavement. I really hate my current gearing. My low is not near low enough and the high could be higher. (48-110 inch wheels in the old school).
Wow that's an impressive track record for the old Fuji's drivetrain. Friction shifters definitely prevent a lot of derailleur adjustment headaches. Upper limit, lower limit, and you're good to go! Sub-18 lbs is possible for sure, but you're right, definitely not happening with a Rohloff. I think around $6k from most major brands will buy something sufficiently light, but they'll probably be far "racier" geometry than you're accustomed to. At least gearing will be wider, maybe 30"-120" give or take. If money's essentially no object, then I'd _personally_ go with a custom titanium frame from a smaller builder. It might be worth accepting a couple pounds more for your ideal drivetrain, since that makes a bigger difference in my enjoyment of a bike. Of course, that's just my two cents. Good luck on the search. Hope you post an update back here!
@@twowheelsbetter_yt Thanks for the reply! I live about an hour from TWO titanium frame/bike builders. The Cherohala City by Litespeed is just over 3K, but I have more homework to do.
i had a shwinn bike with a hub and then a single speed bike with a cheap freewheel...well the sibgle speed was much nuch faster and easier to ride, of course you miss the fun of shifting gears...but overall i could go much longer distances much faster less tired than with an internal gear hub
the energy loss is the most important factor. Using those multiple gears at the same time of the internal hub means so much lost energy. 2.5 times more energy loss on an internal hub vs a derailleur system.
liked it but most ig hubs seem to have to be greased which means taking the whole innards out every so often, thats a pain in the butt.and possibly beyond a lot of people
That total disassembly for new grease is only for cheap hubs, like the Shimano Nexus series. I prefer the expensive, yet high quality Rohloff hub. You can change the oil in 30 minutes all by yourself with a seringe.
Yep, exactly the same principle. Haven't owned a CVT hub before, but I was impressed after test-riding a few. A bit more friction than regular IGHs (which are already not the most efficient) but the idea is pretty cool.
@@twowheelsbetter_yt Yeah, good concept for people who don't like shifting gears nor want to have to take considerations of the drivetrain with a automatic
I have a recumbent trike with a new Bafang 500w mid drive motor which carries me at speed over a 50 km course but I would like to swap my old, noisy derailleurs for an automatic geared hub which can cope with the 100nm of torque put out by the Bafang. However, there is almost no information available on such CVT's. Bafang recently announced a 3-speed hub which may provide a solution but no info available. The big KARHOONA SHIMANO have announced several such hubs but again, cannot find information on what or where to buy? Half the links advertised by them DO NOT WORK. If you are searching for a local dealer, AUSTRALIA is not even on the list of countries served by them??? Almost as if they do not want your business???
Derailleurs are simply a pain in the ass for daily use. One can talk a lot about complicated maintenance on an internal hub, but for the daily ride to work you can use them for years without encountering problems. Than you just buy a new rear wheel with a new hub.
It seems to me you underestimate the need of derailleurs to be readjusted. With ebikes, derailleurs and chains are not the way to go due to the high couple of motors.
Terrific point about e-bikes, which I wasn't really thinking about. I've never owned one (yet) but can easily see how derailleur + chain would be a headache! Thanks for watching.
@@twowheelsbetter_yt Its the Shimano Alivio RD-M3100 with index shifting. Yeah I mean while pedaling under the 2 highest assistance levels. In lowest assistance you can pedal normally.
Most of your video is miss leading or just wrong. All except the top end hub gears run in oil, Shimano Nexus use a lithium grease which never needs changing. Changing gears under load is not advisable for hub gears or deraliur gears. Hub gears have a 1:1 ratio which does not engage the gears so the efficiency is very high and if you gear your bike to run mostly in this gear efficiency is not an issue. Derailleur gears are not efficient when extreme hi and low gears so an 11 speed cassette really only has about 3 useable constant use gears when the chain is straight. The only reason for derailleur gears is to match the pace of other riders in a group with the same setup and if not racing it's the cost. Derailleurs are dirt cheap. Even the best Di2 is half the price of a Rohlof. At the low end a Nexus 3 is 10x the cost of a cheap derailleur.
Derailleurs are ugly, dirty, complex, fragile, and difficult for ordinary riders to use correctly. They have no place on everyday bicycles. They do not really require any more than three gears. Hub gears are the only answer unless you are an energetic cycling enthusiast.
Thanks for watching! Here's some awesome bike stuff I like & you might, too. (It also helps support this channel!)
🚲 PRIORITY BICYCLES (belt-drive bikes with hub gears): twowheelsbetter.net/go/priority
🚲 BROMPTON (reigning champ of folding bikes): twowheelsbetter.net/go/brompton
✅ BROOKS B67 (favorite saddle for upright riding): amzn.to/44JFQ2A
✅ BROOKS B17 (favorite saddle for hybrid & touring posture): amzn.to/3DE2nSc
Very underrated video. Clean easy to follow graphics, concise narration with great sound quality, and great detailed information, summed up at the end in an easy to remember list. Thanks for your work!
Thanks for watching and for your comment--I'm really glad to hear that! More to come, as I figure out how to produce these a little quicker ;)
I have a Rolloff+belt on my touring/gravel bike. It takes a minute to get the wheel off. It doesn't get bashed about like a derailleur, its not dirty, doesn't get clogged up with mud. It has been mega reliable with just a few simple oil changes. I don't have to keep changing cassettes and chains. Ok, it is a bit heavier, expensive and fractional drag in lower gears. I have derrailleur on my fast road bike and my MTB🙂. Horses for courses.
Nice, I've heard nothing but good stuff about Rohloffs but could never justify the cost for myself. Sounds seriously worth considering for my next all-rounder... Glad it's working well for you!
@mustafahussein5599 You lose a few % efficiency. It's like using a 50 years old race bike... perfectly fine, but who wants to do it?
There were a few points, you missed, but the what you did cover, you covered so well, I honestly can't find a complaint about it.
Thanks for watching and for the kind words. Would also love to hear what else I should've mentioned, for future reference!
One additional point in favour of hub gears: they are much less sensitive to tightly packed bicycle parking (hence why hubs are most popular in the Netherlands - also they don't have need for much range).
Good point! I hadn't thought about that, but I can see how it would be a _huge_ practical benefit.
I grew up in the US in the 60’s and 70’s. Prior to the 70’s most adults didn’t ride bicycles and kids’ bikes here were indestructible steel single speeds with coaster brakes. But… there were these bikes we called “English racers.” Double diamond frame, skinny tires and a 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub. Those bikes were really nice. Sadly, I never owned one, but I rode a few of them. Those three speeds were smooth. Soon after, “10-speeds” took over. We all got derailleur shifters and the 3 speed hubs were pretty much forgotten. I think that’s sad, actually.
I have 5 bicycles all with different gears, the one with the rohloff I like most but is expensive.
On different bikes I have used (and still do) a derailleur system. (mtb's)
I kind of like these still the most because they have that direct light feel and it kind of looks better in my view.
I'm retired now but to my work I mostly used derailleur bicycles and kept the oilcan close by.
But if you wanna forget your chain and gear, use a internal gear hub and gates belt.
I live in the Netherlands and travel only by bicycle.
I know, we have the luxury of a modern sophisticated cycling infrastructure.
Great video with lots of real information. Just one thing. You mentioned derailleurs are a very mature technology because they've been perfected over a period of a hundred years. Just wanted to point out that internal gear hubs have also been around for 100 years, for example Sturmey-Archer, whose first 3-speed hub came out in 1901 or thereabouts. Thanks.
Absolutely right, my mistake, glad you pointed that out! Thanks for watching.
True, but hubs are still much less mature, because they sell 10 x more...
For the same reason I probably won't buy a belt + hub bike to replace my 25 years old one, because they are twice the price of their equivalent - being produced in much smaller numbers than derailleurs!
Some things were already mentioned here, but some extra points.
For our everyday bikes (we do everything by bicycle) we try to go for hubs as much as possible for all the reasons you mention and more.
Good example is kids bikes. They can be rough with their bicycle and because of the smaller wheels, derailers are more exposed and prone to being hit.
Similar in thight bycicle parks, having a derailer basically puts your chain out there to catch behind pedals and other things sticking out of other bikes.
Another thing is some speciality bikes. We have a folding bicycle and a recumbent. Both vastly superior with hub gear. Folding similar to the previous points, exposed for shunts and messy esp with small wheels. Recumbent often have long chains which puts extra strain on the derailer spring.
More and more concerning bicycles I get convinced that older for the tech, and simpler is better. The road bike I bought new last year is a State brand, with eight in the rear, just one front ring, and has friction shifters and pad brakes. Once I got it into tune, it's been brilliant. Seems like there's less that can go wrong, less to worry about, and most of it (When I got reacquainted with the 1970s type components again.) is easier to deal with. Of course regular notched shifting can be almost trouble free too. The e-bike has been bulletproof for the 800 or so miles on it, and the Marin hybrid I've had for seven years has required very little for adjusting for brakes or gears. I don't think I'll be an easy sell for such a radical change with these internal hub types, especially with more weight of this to the bike mechanics out there.
I prefer hub gears since I can downshift when standing still on the redlight. And I dont need to adjust them every month
Yeah, both huge advantages. I never realized how _nice_ it is to shift at a stop until I finally bought a bike with hub gears.
@@twowheelsbetter_yt True. Before switching to Hub Gears full-time I sometimes made a conscious effort to downshift before stop signs and lights, but I didn't always do that so starting off was slow and hard.
Only an idiot would think that
I’m sorry I was trying to be a troll but then I felt mean I hope you have a nice day I’ll try and be a better person
Hub gear is heavier but total weight should be considered - you should substract weight of derailleur rear and possibly front too with two plates. So in total hub gears might weight less.
thank you, this video answered all of mine questions.. for me, derailleur it is!!
I thought your video was excellent and well produced. It deserves lots more views. Keep up the good work. Subscribed.
Much appreciated, and thanks for watching!
Good summary, graphics etc. Thanks!
You forgot something important: a gear hub is like a single speed: you need a special frame that allows for tensioning the chain by sliding the rear wheel back and forth.
If you don’t have such a frame, you need to add a chain tensioner, which kind of looks like the bottom part of a derailleur: added complexity, point of failure, and drag.
If you break your chain and need to remove a link, it will likely not work any more.
Removing the rear wheel to repair a flat is a big headache. Beyond what you want to do out on a trail.. I say that from experience with a Nexus 7.
Very informative video. I like the simple look of an internal geared hub
Yeah, same here - you get the sleekness of a single-speed, but without the struggle up hills. Thanks for watching!
Amazing video. I would just like to add that you can't exactly shift a derailleur under a full load either. For example going up a hill, you have to shift beforehand because the tensioned chain refuses to move sideways.
Thanks! Great point, glad you mentioned it. Always a bummer to dismount just because I didn't time the shift right. Also very hard to shift at low RPM, in addition to the tension issue.
That is why most holiday touring bikes are fitted with a quality hub like Rohloff or Pinion. You can shift gears even at standstill.
I was all in for either a gear box, or IGH, but seeing how with a gear box one would have to keep that frame forever, and with a IGH the wheel is attached to it again not allowing one to swap out a tire for the snow, super thin, you name it. You’re stuck with said tire, and they are not the cost of a cup of coffee. I see myself going with a derailleur, either wide narrow, or 1by. I think the wide, narrow may be the better choice. Thanks for your work, and being concise with the information.👍
Thanks for watching!
You definitely *can* swap the tires with an IGH, although it can be a real headache...
I got an old barn bike (20 years old) equiped with a Nexus 7.
With no prior knowledge of bike mechanics I was able (thanks RUclips) to fully service and delete the coaster brake (that was internally broken), replaced the gear handle and cables.
All in all, the handle + cables was 13€ , grease + oil (used automatic gearbox oil) were 20€.
Bike had many mile, sat outside for many many years.
And with only 35€ is back and works just great !
No rust had formed inside the hub !
This made me what you can call a pro-gearhub kinda guy 😂
What an incredibly informative video! Thanks so much. I am now adequately informed before my next bicycle purchase. I'd have made a choice that is not ideal for my needs otherwise. Subscribed!
Thanks Dannie, I appreciate it and am really glad it was helpful! Enjoy your new ride!
That is a very cool video pal!
Very well put
Really appreciate it, thanks for watching!
The more gears on a derailleur the thinner the chain parts meaning chain stretch is more likely to occur, love to get a NuVinci hub but they’re not common in the UK. Interesting points though 👍
Thanks, great point about chain stretch, I totally overlooked that. BTW just guessing, but perhaps NuVinci are sold under the Enviolo brand there?
Thanks, great point about chain stretch, I totally overlooked that. BTW just guessing, but perhaps NuVinci are sold under the Enviolo brand there?
It's not really stretch, it's actually wear on the chain links that translate into the whole chain becoming longer and it doesn't happen by chance, it's mostly because of not cleaning and lubing the chain. If you don't lube and clean it, it will happen to the chain of your internal hub bike too. I also don't like the single derailleur though and use a 3x7 that has a thicker chain and good flexibility to change gears at low speed. Not quite as good as changing it without pedaling like internal hub but has many advantages, including the cost.
The answer is more than one bike,73 Raleigh 3 spd and torpado road bike
You forgot the fact that since Internally geared hubs are completely inside a shell, they are incredibly resistant to mechanical damage from outside forces such as the bike falling over, crashes, scraping by obstacles (rocks, branches or even high curbs, especially on smaller wheels) or even just a drunk person kicking your rear wheel while you bike is parked outside. Derailleurs are easily brought out of alignment, or even bent completely (or at least the piece of metal the hanger itself is bolted on to), while Hub Gears are usually not affected.
Also since the chain on internally geared hubs is running in the same exact line you can put a chain case around the chain, vastly reducing the amount of maintenance on the chain, vastly increasing the life of the chain and preventing getting your legs, or your hands if you are lifting your bike, full of chain grime.
Personally I only ride internally geared hubs. I can easily stop pedalling for a fraction of a second to shift, but I love the freedom to casually select my starting gear while being stationary. Also on steep uphills with derailleurs you kinda should keep pedalling, but don't do full load, since that wears out your casette or even break your chain if you are unlucky, which kinda becomes impossible. So you have to shift down way before you physically have to when running a derailleur, if you want to shift properly. With a Internally geared hub I can always stop pedalling and the shifting is near instantaneous.
Running a Rohloff bike for touring and commuting, a Nexus 8 for city use and a SRAM S7 for my folding bike.
I do all my maintenance myself, since once you know what to do it's actually super simple to change the oil on these hubs. I don't expect the Rohloff to break, but if the others eventually develop issues after decades or so that I can't fix myself, I'll just get a new one. They probably lasted such a long time already that I've saved more money on chains, cogs and bent derailleurs that I still come cheaper out on top than a derailleur. So while the upfront cost might be higher, the lifetime cost of hub gears is usually lower.
I think the matter of cost plays a role as well. If you're going for hub gears, buy good ones: that begins with Shimano Nexus 8s and Alfines right up to Rohloffs. A cheap derailleur, on the other hand, will often be fine since the tech is so simple. Typically, though, derailleurs will be cheap tech on expensive bikes, while hub gears are more of less the opposite. For everyday transport, however, nothing beats a good bike with decent hub gears.
Excellent video, just what i was looking for, before considering a (fairly) custom build for my next bike. Hub gears do look very tempting (especially with belt drive), but the price is just way too much for me to justify.
Thanks for watching. Yeah the price can be hard to swallow, for sure. Have fun with the bike build!
The purchase price of a hub is high, yet derailers wear out quickly and the combined parts are higher then a quality hub over time.
I was looking at the cheapest belt + hub I have found, a Cube Hyde but they are really 500 or 600 euros more expensive than their equivalent... and you lose a few % efficiency.
I'll keep my 25 years old bike for now... the derailleur is perfectly fine (I only had to change the chain 1 or 2 times), only the wheels seriously need some balancing, at high speed I can't release my grip on the handlebar, else it goes wild!
i would love to see a build that incorporates derailleur + hub gear in one bike, instead off vs.
When to choose between derailer and hub?
Derailer: for the long distance, in the country side. Because the number of stops are limited. Think about red traffic lights, yield signs. These are very low in the country side.
Hub: for urban areas with a lot of stops and long distance holiday touring that takes weeks, in not months. Then the reliability of a quality hub comes into play. I recommend either Rohloff or Pinion hubs.
Nice comparison! Thanks.
Much appreciated, thanks for watching!
I'd consider a internal transmission for a 500w el-bike conversion, but not for a manually pedalled traditional bike. At least for my hilly and wibe case of cycling conditions, from hilly forests with little weight to fully loaded with groceries up and down hilly paved sidewalks
Derailers can suck watts, but not at a percentage. A dirty system might take out 10 or 15 watts, but the 5-8% you lose with internal gears can be 100 watts if you're pedaling at 1500 watts like me
Can you make a video about ranking the best gear systems - external? With the best quality? I mean including the brand, number of gears. Like you mentioned a one drive chains with a rear deraileur and no front derailleur. Like looks a good choise as somebody who likes simplicity. But its hard to find this kind of bike.
Thanks for the idea; I'll keep that in mind if I ever do more review/round-up videos.
1x drivetrains are super common but it does depend on the type of bike you're looking for. For instance, ubiquitous on MTBs these days, but less universal on road bikes.
Great video, thanks! Just bought an old ebike, which has an old derailleur. After losing the chain a few times, I've bought an old 8 speed Alfine, which might be a better solution especially for a front hub motor ?! We'll see 😊
The only thing I disagree with is that I find removing and replacing a hub geared wheel is often easier than replacing a derailleur gear wheel.
Update - I bought a carbon fiber rocket with 2x11 speeds. I'm happy for now. I'm in a financial position to get whatever I want in a bike. As I get older I might want something with fatter tires and a more upright riding position, but for now I tearing it up with this 17 pound wonder.
Helpful video !
Glad to hear, thank you!
I ride a 50 year old Fuji. I have not adjusted my derailers in the past 10 or 20 years, other than to twist the tension wingnuts on the shift levers on the downtube, something that I do while riding if I happen to bump it off tension while shifting. I'm looking to buy a new ride, probably a CF or titanium frame. I want a ultra light bike, under 18 pounds if that is possible. I love the idea of a Rohloff hub, but I think the weight and loss of efficiency is a deal breaker for me. I really don't care about the cost, I paid $350. for my Fuji which is like over $2K today, and I have a lot more money now than I did back then. Considering I plan on riding this bike for decades I am willing to invest big coin. Any input would be much appreciated! 100% of my riding is on pavement. I really hate my current gearing. My low is not near low enough and the high could be higher. (48-110 inch wheels in the old school).
Wow that's an impressive track record for the old Fuji's drivetrain. Friction shifters definitely prevent a lot of derailleur adjustment headaches. Upper limit, lower limit, and you're good to go!
Sub-18 lbs is possible for sure, but you're right, definitely not happening with a Rohloff. I think around $6k from most major brands will buy something sufficiently light, but they'll probably be far "racier" geometry than you're accustomed to. At least gearing will be wider, maybe 30"-120" give or take.
If money's essentially no object, then I'd _personally_ go with a custom titanium frame from a smaller builder. It might be worth accepting a couple pounds more for your ideal drivetrain, since that makes a bigger difference in my enjoyment of a bike. Of course, that's just my two cents.
Good luck on the search. Hope you post an update back here!
@@twowheelsbetter_yt Thanks for the reply! I live about an hour from TWO titanium frame/bike builders. The Cherohala City by Litespeed is just over 3K, but I have more homework to do.
Awesome & Thanks :)
Thanks for watching!
I was thinking about going for a belt drive with hub gears but I think I will just stick with deraileurs. Maybe get those electronic ones.
With e-bikes becoming more common the internal gear hub is a practical solution instead of derailleurs.
For sure. Don't know if you've seen Shimano's new auto-shifting drivetrain for e-bikes, but I think that sort of thing is going to get very popular.
@@twowheelsbetter_yt I'll look into it. Thanks!
i had a shwinn bike with a hub and then a single speed bike with a cheap freewheel...well the sibgle speed was much nuch faster and easier to ride, of course you miss the fun of shifting gears...but overall i could go much longer distances much faster less tired than with an internal gear hub
Every choice in engineering has trade offs.
the energy loss is the most important factor. Using those multiple gears at the same time of the internal hub means so much lost energy. 2.5 times more energy loss on an internal hub vs a derailleur system.
liked it but most ig hubs seem to have to be greased which means taking the whole innards out every so often, thats a pain in the butt.and possibly beyond a lot of people
That total disassembly for new grease is only for cheap hubs, like the Shimano Nexus series. I prefer the expensive, yet high quality Rohloff hub. You can change the oil in 30 minutes all by yourself with a seringe.
None of this matters. I think all of this is to be expected. What we really want to know is which one is faster?
Faster as in the speed you can achieve?
Derailers, lighter and much more efficient if properly maintained.
Various continouse gearing? Like Toyota's CVT?
I do hope they will be more reliable in the lower power applications of bikes than in cars, hehe
Yep, exactly the same principle. Haven't owned a CVT hub before, but I was impressed after test-riding a few. A bit more friction than regular IGHs (which are already not the most efficient) but the idea is pretty cool.
@@twowheelsbetter_yt Yeah, good concept for people who don't like shifting gears nor want to have to take considerations of the drivetrain with a automatic
Derailleur more cost efficient then a rohloff with proved to last more then 200.000km? How many derailleur drive train would that be??
I prefer derailleur for the efficiency 👍
I have a recumbent trike with a new Bafang 500w mid drive motor which carries me at speed over a 50 km course but I would like to swap my old, noisy derailleurs for an automatic geared hub which can cope with the 100nm of torque put out by the Bafang. However, there is almost no information available on such CVT's. Bafang recently announced a 3-speed hub which may provide a solution but no info available. The big KARHOONA SHIMANO have announced several such hubs but again, cannot find information on what or where to buy? Half the links advertised by them DO NOT WORK. If you are searching for a local dealer, AUSTRALIA is not even on the list of countries served by them??? Almost as if they do not want your business???
Derailleurs are simply a pain in the ass for daily use. One can talk a lot about complicated maintenance on an internal hub, but for the daily ride to work you can use them for years without encountering problems. Than you just buy a new rear wheel with a new hub.
It depends where a person lives, tbh
It seems to me you underestimate the need of derailleurs to be readjusted. With ebikes, derailleurs and chains are not the way to go due to the high couple of motors.
Terrific point about e-bikes, which I wasn't really thinking about. I've never owned one (yet) but can easily see how derailleur + chain would be a headache! Thanks for watching.
I own an ebike with derailleur. It doesn't require more readjusting but shifting under load is a big no no and the cassette worn out faster.
@@frafra224 Interesting, what kind of derailleur is it? And by "shifting under load," do you mean while pedaling, or something else?
@@twowheelsbetter_yt Its the Shimano Alivio RD-M3100 with index shifting. Yeah I mean while pedaling under the 2 highest assistance levels. In lowest assistance you can pedal normally.
Most of your video is miss leading or just wrong. All except the top end hub gears run in oil, Shimano Nexus use a lithium grease which never needs changing.
Changing gears under load is not advisable for hub gears or deraliur gears.
Hub gears have a 1:1 ratio which does not engage the gears so the efficiency is very high and if you gear your bike to run mostly in this gear efficiency is not an issue. Derailleur gears are not efficient when extreme hi and low gears so an 11 speed cassette really only has about 3 useable constant use gears when the chain is straight. The only reason for derailleur gears is to match the pace of other riders in a group with the same setup and if not racing it's the cost. Derailleurs are dirt cheap. Even the best Di2 is half the price of a Rohlof. At the low end a Nexus 3 is 10x the cost of a cheap derailleur.
Derailleur is a pain in the ass.
Haha they sure can be. Index shifting makes them easier to deal with...but that causes other inconveniences.
you should fire your script-writer! There is a dislike for him!
Huh? Always open to constructive feedback.
Derailleurs are ugly, dirty, complex, fragile, and difficult for ordinary riders to use correctly. They have no place on everyday bicycles. They do not really require any more than three gears. Hub gears are the only answer unless you are an energetic cycling enthusiast.