Beautifully explained. Do not apologize for your Engish, it is probably not your native tongue. The fact that you can speak the English language well enough to convey your explanation is good enough. Some people who speak only English can't speak it as good as you. As a Ducati owner I enjoyed your video.
He missing a critical aspect of the design. There was no discussion of how clearance between the opening and closing cams is handled. The same thing applies to how the valve is held firmly closed by the closing cam. Other videos omit this important detail. From my observation the springs on the shafts are the secret to this functionality. The valves are held closed with these springs that make a (slightly) flexible joint in the closing rocker assembly.
Sorry for his English since he never learns English in a formal institution. However he had strongly tried to pronounce English sentences by himself. Therefore some of his pronounciations were quite strange in our ears. Any way we do apreciate for his hard works and efforts. Go a head Guy !
Was going to say, never apologize for your opinion on your English. You explained it better than many English speakers and with confidence. Thank you for the knowledge
Dude, I'm a fellow Indonesian and i know nothing of how ducati's desmo valves work until i stumbled upon this video. Keep up the good work man. Loved the video!
Very well explained, have heard of desmo valves but no idea how they worked, thanks to this video I now have a basic understanding. Thanks for sharing this video.
Great explanation of how it works. Although I used to own a 2016 Ducati Multistrada 1200S and I had nothing but problems with the bike plus ridiculous maintenance costs (timing belts every 5 years…..are they kidding!!!!) means I would never ever buy another Ducati. I now own a Yamaha and love the fact it starts every time!!!
@@richardmann4006 I treated the Ducati exactly the same way I treat my Yamaha and I have never had a single issue with the Tracer or any other Yamaha or Honda I have owned.
I laugh at comments like yours,these bikes aren't meant for people who have zero mechanical experience,or money,if you buy an exotic you have to be prepared for maintenance,insurance,and rego costs.
Basically this valve system is a perfect definition of timing.... valve open and close so accurate that it makes the engine pick up so fast that it makes you feel it like its wildin ❤ absolute perfect machine
That was a great explanation! I’m looking at a Ducati right now and was interested in learning about their special valve system. Thank you for teaching me!
Very cool. I’m interested because Ducati is introducing a dirt bike to compete in MXGP and American Supermotocross. Lots of 450 riders say the bikes already have too much power, so I’m curious to see how this engine in a dirt bike translates to rideability off road. Thanks for the great explanation!
I used to know the guy who own the 748. According to him, the engine require to have valves adjustment on every oil change. That may be why it is not quite acceptable to be use in many applications other than in italian exotic.
good video, and good explanation. I used to have a duccati 450 desmo... long time ago! Used to spend time for maintenance, but i had a very good time with this bike! Thanks for your time.
Hello, FT-Share! I understand I'm late to comment on this video, but I still want to share something. Excellent video, helped me understand the history behind this system. And like others have said, your English is fine (though you might want to double-check your subtitles in future videos, you said 1896 and the subtitles read 1986.) As to your questions on why Desmo valves didn't catch on with road cars and what the last road car with desmo valves was, I can help somewhat. As I understand, the main reasons desmo valves fell out of favour for road cars despithe their high performance gains was the fact that they were still quite complex and high-maintenance, especially in contrast to the technology that emerged after everyone resumed building cars after the end of WW2: Fuel injection. Fuel injection was far more practical than desmo valves, especially for an everyday road car in the 1950s, when metallurgy tech in the period only allowed desmo valves to really perform best in high-performance applications like race cars and high-end sports cars, which segues into my other answer quite nicely: The last cars with desmo valves. As far as I can tell, the last road car with desmo valves (emphasis on road car, I do not know if race cars had them for a little longer) was the Pegaso Z102, a technologically-advanced, high-performance, coachbuilt luxury sports car made by a Spanish truck and bus manufacturer in the 1950s. With all the performance technology that the Z102 was loaded down with, plus the luxury trappings and coachbuilt bodywork that meant no Z102 was the same as another, I'd personally say this car was the 1950s equivalent to a modern built-to-order Bugatti like the Voiture Noir. Hope this helped, and keep up the good work on your channel! (Edits for grammar)
I think you"re doing an assignment for a mechanical engineering course in a non english speaking university, aye? Its just my 2 cents. Anyhow that was a rather comprehensive, clear explanation from historical overview to the technical aspect of desmo valve. Considering the video was about 9.00 mins.
Complexity and wear problems cannot be overcome, so this system will always be for specialized purposes, mainly used by Ducati's determination to not change. Freevalve is the future for all IC engines.
I thought the same when I saw it in video. Imagine the friction with the closing lobe...my guess to work it's just to guarantee that stays closed because it's natural position of the valve or it'll have a great loss to fiction. Or maybe in motorcycle is viable while in cars it isn't. And with FreeValve you can make a different map at each rotation and the driver selection (eco, sport, etc) eliminating timing chain, friction losses, etc.
Lol, "mainly used by Ducati's determination to not change" what a dummy comment... Who won motogp plz ? Freevalve is the future... if you have the money. Desmo is and is gonna be always less expensive. You don't really know for sure
freevalve is great, but the components being highly pricy and consists of parts hard to obtain, soo nope, not gonna happen, on sports it could but in daily drive i doubt it
Not a chance. Internal combustion engines simply can't compete with electric motors when it comes to peak power. They are not even close. However, internal combustion engines paired with a fuel tank can beat the HELL out of lithium ion batteries. And in that application high revving is counterproductive. Standard valves in a 60+% efficient 10-stroke simultaneous combined cycle engine that allows for a teensy tiny battery in a series hybrid is the future.
Variable valve timing is complicated for desmodromic. 4-12 piston engine(car) is never reving higher than 12000 rpm. Desmodromic is to solve 19000+ rpm engine where no spring is feasible to follow that speed. That why ducaty bike is using this relics.
Great video, thank you for taking the time and trouble to make it and publish it. Not sure how you did all these 3D Desmo drawings but they are awesome!
has anyone ever tried to do research by combining the roller rocker arm +desmodromic valve system? as far as I know from various articles on the internet that desmodromic often has problems in the rocker arm, the friction between the rocker arm and the camshaft makes the rocker arm not last long,
Will changing your oil more often, say every 2000 miles prevent the Desmo valve system last longer before needing to service or lets say, when serviced not needing much adjustment ??
i think the reason why the dont use it in automobiles these days is because of the friction caused from the rocker pushing the against the lob. Its a reliability thing I don't know anything by the way lol so take that with a grain of salt
They are harsher mechanically requiring expensive valve service rates at more than double those of a spring system. This is why Ducati just abandoned them after decades of Desmo being iconic part of their brand. Changing to springs increased the valve servicing interval by 60,000 kilometers.
the 1st ones besides the desmo valve train they did not use a cam chain either but had a drive shaft to drive the over head cam ..there for nothing to break at all..rev it to the moon and it would stay together ..but not anymore cause now you got cam chains that break and valve spring that get very weak very quickly and cause the valves to become slow to close and now and then come in contact with the piston and it's game over revved out at about 14,000 when it happens does not leave much at all to nothing worth rebuilding
@tonyfrancisco370 no there is no heat issues, just quite a tappy valve train but Ducati engines are so Rattley it doesn't really matter lol my ducati xdiavel s has the testastretta dvt engine and has amazing low end power and the Desmo gives it another kick high up.
No, pneumatic valve actuating is equal , or better for high revs other 16000 rpm ( valve springs limit to day in motorcycle technology due to size of the engines and of the the size valves).@@endurofan9854
TL:DR cars don’t need deso-valves. Too expensive and too complicated. Not enough rpm’s to warrant use. Here’s how I see it: motorcycle production has always been way less than car production. So it makes sense for cars to be more cheaply made and not built for the enthusiast. For example, Ford sold 15 million model T’s in just a handful of years. During that same time frame, Harley Davidson sold a grand total of maybe 400,000 units? Motorcycles are for the enthusiast and cars are for the working man. A valve spring is cheap and easy to make and the spring itself never needs to be adjusted. The deso-valve is a more complicated system and requires finer tuning compared to a traditional camshaft and valve system. It’s great for performance! But it’s expensive and complicated. And for the average commuter that just doesn’t make sense. But even for a performance car it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense as the bigger engines usually dont achieve the rpm’s necessary to warrant the use of the fancy valve.
This overlitre engine is more like an engine to succeed in a race. If you drive slowly, this engine will definitely lose its vitality. Ducati hopes to apply the system to motorcycles with low CC.
As of 2023, Desmodromic valve system is rather outdated...Honda's Vtech was far superior - but now that is outdated as well. We have cam technology that as surpassed the efficiency and output of desmo. And yet, Ducati is still using this desmo valve on...Desert X!!!! WHY?!?!?!
@@LooxJJ I keep trying to talk myself into buying one, I really want one but I'm one of these idiots who when I get something really sweet something bad happens. My 64 Impala was stolen, my shaved dropped in the weeds with a 351 Windsor with Cleveland 2 barrel heads and custom sheet aluminum intake got hit by a little old lady that ran a stop sign. My 71 Cheyenne with a 402 and turbo 400 was crunched when a tornado came through and a large limb fell across the cab front left to right. And my 62 chevy pickup was caught by the same tree limb. My 550 Honda got caught in a garage fire at the in-laws. It always seems to happen to my nice rides. My POS always seems to come out of everything a-okay. Heck my 72 mustang I tried to blow the motor up and drove it until it was out of oil and still drove it ten miles home had to add four quarts of oil to it and drove it for another two months before selling it for 3500. But I keep thinking if I get a Ducati what would happen to it. So far my 85 Maserati quattroporte is spending most of it's time in my buddys climate controlled shop and i take it out once a week and drive it about 70 miles or so to the neighboring town and go to the hardware store and the auto parts store for odds and ends that I include when I ship parts out. I recycle Alfa Romeo and Maseratis with an occasional Ferrari, Lamborghini and Fiat Dino thrown in. And one Canadian Citroen SM. It's ugly as sin but it's got a Maserati engine and hydraulic suspension and includes a jack stand in place of the jack. But it had a heated front and rear windshields and molded glass headlight covers that you can't find in the US sold car's. The front windshield has a bronze colored tint that heats up to defrost it. Well I'd better stop rambling and do something productive for the day.
DeSmos not Demos. You said Demos instead of the correct Desmos. Demos does not mean "relationship or bound" as you say. Demos means "the everyday people of an ancient Greek state OR the populace of a '''''Demo-cracy''''' as a political unit" Desmos means "relationship or bond" and is the word you are looking for. As far as the poor english pronunciation part is concerned, just keep practicing. In the meantime, please get someone with a much better pronunciation to do the narration!
Beautifully explained. Do not apologize for your Engish, it is probably not your native tongue. The fact that you can speak the English language well enough to convey your explanation is good enough. Some people who speak only English can't speak it as good as you. As a Ducati owner I enjoyed your video.
I agree, I wish I could speak Italian
He missing a critical aspect of the design. There was no discussion of how clearance between the opening and closing cams is handled. The same thing applies to how the valve is held firmly closed by the closing cam. Other videos omit this important detail. From my observation the springs on the shafts are the secret to this functionality. The valves are held closed with these springs that make a (slightly) flexible joint in the closing rocker assembly.
Sorry for his English since he never learns English in a formal institution. However he had strongly tried to pronounce English sentences by himself. Therefore some of his pronounciations were quite strange in our ears. Any way we do apreciate for his hard works and efforts. Go a head Guy !
Was going to say, never apologize for your opinion on your English. You explained it better than many English speakers and with confidence. Thank you for the knowledge
Dude, I'm a fellow Indonesian and i know nothing of how ducati's desmo valves work until i stumbled upon this video. Keep up the good work man. Loved the video!
Very well explained, have heard of desmo valves but no idea how they worked, thanks to this video I now have a basic understanding. Thanks for sharing this video.
Thanks so much for creating this video! REcently bought a Ducati Streetfighter 848 and this was very helpful
Great explanation of how it works. Although I used to own a 2016 Ducati Multistrada 1200S and I had nothing but problems with the bike plus ridiculous maintenance costs (timing belts every 5 years…..are they kidding!!!!) means I would never ever buy another Ducati. I now own a Yamaha and love the fact it starts every time!!!
I’ve had zero issues with mine. Maybe you just didn’t take good care of it.
@@richardmann4006 I treated the Ducati exactly the same way I treat my Yamaha and I have never had a single issue with the Tracer or any other Yamaha or Honda I have owned.
My 2008 gt 1000 I changed the timing belts every 15k, 43k & no valve adjustment needed, changed oil every 5k.
I laugh at comments like yours,these bikes aren't meant for people who have zero mechanical experience,or money,if you buy an exotic you have to be prepared for maintenance,insurance,and rego costs.
Basically this valve system is a perfect definition of timing.... valve open and close so accurate that it makes the engine pick up so fast that it makes you feel it like its wildin ❤ absolute perfect machine
I had never seen this system before as I am not into bikes much. I love the way it is done.
That was a great explanation! I’m looking at a Ducati right now and was interested in learning about their special valve system. Thank you for teaching me!
Very cool. I’m interested because Ducati is introducing a dirt bike to compete in MXGP and American Supermotocross. Lots of 450 riders say the bikes already have too much power, so I’m curious to see how this engine in a dirt bike translates to rideability off road. Thanks for the great explanation!
Absolutely- for those of us hypnotized by the sound of these engines,
It’s music.
T. (2005 800SS Desomdue)
I used to know the guy who own the 748. According to him, the engine require to have valves adjustment on every oil change. That may be why it is not quite acceptable to be use in many applications other than in italian exotic.
Yeah that doesn't make sense,I think he told you that to discourage you from buying one 🤣😉
good video, and good explanation.
I used to have a duccati 450 desmo... long time ago!
Used to spend time for maintenance, but i had a very good time with this bike!
Thanks for your time.
Hello, FT-Share! I understand I'm late to comment on this video, but I still want to share something. Excellent video, helped me understand the history behind this system. And like others have said, your English is fine (though you might want to double-check your subtitles in future videos, you said 1896 and the subtitles read 1986.)
As to your questions on why Desmo valves didn't catch on with road cars and what the last road car with desmo valves was, I can help somewhat. As I understand, the main reasons desmo valves fell out of favour for road cars despithe their high performance gains was the fact that they were still quite complex and high-maintenance, especially in contrast to the technology that emerged after everyone resumed building cars after the end of WW2: Fuel injection. Fuel injection was far more practical than desmo valves, especially for an everyday road car in the 1950s, when metallurgy tech in the period only allowed desmo valves to really perform best in high-performance applications like race cars and high-end sports cars, which segues into my other answer quite nicely: The last cars with desmo valves.
As far as I can tell, the last road car with desmo valves (emphasis on road car, I do not know if race cars had them for a little longer) was the Pegaso Z102, a technologically-advanced, high-performance, coachbuilt luxury sports car made by a Spanish truck and bus manufacturer in the 1950s. With all the performance technology that the Z102 was loaded down with, plus the luxury trappings and coachbuilt bodywork that meant no Z102 was the same as another, I'd personally say this car was the 1950s equivalent to a modern built-to-order Bugatti like the Voiture Noir.
Hope this helped, and keep up the good work on your channel!
(Edits for grammar)
I needed to watch this with subtitles.
Excellent explanation and only 1 tip for English, slow down. Very well spoken and interesting to watch.
Good video easy to understand and informative, even though i know a lot about this engine i still liked your version and content.
I think you"re doing an assignment for a mechanical engineering course in a non english speaking university, aye?
Its just my 2 cents. Anyhow that was a rather comprehensive, clear explanation from historical overview to the technical aspect of desmo valve. Considering the video was about 9.00 mins.
He explained it far better than native tongue English speakers......
with this presentation you've got me revved up sir,
new sub here 😄
gotta love this kind of enfo sharing
Another great video! My ears are still ringing from the last video, from the bells :(
Complexity and wear problems cannot be overcome, so this system will always be for specialized purposes, mainly used by Ducati's determination to not change. Freevalve is the future for all IC engines.
I thought the same when I saw it in video. Imagine the friction with the closing lobe...my guess to work it's just to guarantee that stays closed because it's natural position of the valve or it'll have a great loss to fiction. Or maybe in motorcycle is viable while in cars it isn't. And with FreeValve you can make a different map at each rotation and the driver selection (eco, sport, etc) eliminating timing chain, friction losses, etc.
Lol, "mainly used by Ducati's determination to not change" what a dummy comment... Who won motogp plz ? Freevalve is the future... if you have the money. Desmo is and is gonna be always less expensive. You don't really know for sure
freevalve is great,
but the components being highly pricy and consists of parts hard to obtain,
soo nope,
not gonna happen,
on sports it could but in daily drive i doubt it
@@kermitahnenerbe3722 You ever price out a desmo service on a ducati? And you wanna talk money? Weird flex, but alright.
Not a chance. Internal combustion engines simply can't compete with electric motors when it comes to peak power. They are not even close.
However, internal combustion engines paired with a fuel tank can beat the HELL out of lithium ion batteries. And in that application high revving is counterproductive. Standard valves in a 60+% efficient 10-stroke simultaneous combined cycle engine that allows for a teensy tiny battery in a series hybrid is the future.
Variable valve timing is complicated for desmodromic. 4-12 piston engine(car) is never reving higher than 12000 rpm. Desmodromic is to solve 19000+ rpm engine where no spring is feasible to follow that speed. That why ducaty bike is using this relics.
Excellent video. I'm from oxford and your english is fine. Thank you for the knowledge.
Thank You ! Great video though i would like to add that I think that ( 1986 ) came quite a while after ( 1886 ).
Great video, thank you for taking the time and trouble to make it and publish it. Not sure how you did all these 3D Desmo drawings but they are awesome!
Great video, very informative! Congrats from Portugal 🙂👍🇵🇹
4:11 - Valve spring tech and metallurgy has advanced to such a degree that the additional complications of desmo isn't seen as worth it.
has anyone ever tried to do research by combining the roller rocker arm +desmodromic valve system? as far as I know from various articles on the internet that desmodromic often has problems in the rocker arm, the friction between the rocker arm and the camshaft makes the rocker arm not last long,
I was thinking the same thing when I watched this video
Very reliable, 43k on my 2008 gt1000 & valves stayed within tolerance. Changed oil every 5k.
Nice work bung
Excellent animations and video, thank you.
Great video, thank you for the breakdown.
Will changing your oil more often, say every 2000 miles prevent the Desmo valve system last longer before needing to service or lets say, when serviced not needing much adjustment ??
i think the reason why the dont use it in automobiles these days is because of the friction caused from the rocker pushing the against the lob. Its a reliability thing I don't know anything by the way lol so take that with a grain of salt
Why are Ducatis not popular in Isle of Man TT racing? Reliability?
Nice work
1986 is different from 1896
gas bang mantappp
了解，謝謝分享！
They are harsher mechanically requiring expensive valve service rates at more than double those of a spring system. This is why Ducati just abandoned them after decades of Desmo being iconic part of their brand. Changing to springs increased the valve servicing interval by 60,000 kilometers.
Excellent 😊
nice video
why the don't used roller rocker arm ? i guest it cant improve durability isue
ok deh mas
Wear, longevity have to be a serious issue...
Longevity the pro point of this thing... In pneumatic valve there is lot of stress on springs at that high RPM...
the 1st ones besides the desmo valve train they did not use a cam chain either but had a drive shaft to drive the over head cam ..there for nothing to break at all..rev it to the moon and it would stay together ..but not anymore cause now you got cam chains that break and valve spring that get very weak very quickly and cause the valves to become slow to close and now and then come in contact with the piston and it's game over revved out at about 14,000 when it happens does not leave much at all to nothing worth rebuilding
Meh di jai Indonesia isrsel hahaaaaaaa
Very reliable valve train, problem is they are too noisy
Does it tend to overheat?
@tonyfrancisco370 no there is no heat issues, just quite a tappy valve train but Ducati engines are so Rattley it doesn't really matter lol my ducati xdiavel s has the testastretta dvt engine and has amazing low end power and the Desmo gives it another kick high up.
desmo actualy is an all in all rev range advantage
No, pneumatic valve actuating is equal , or better for high revs other 16000 rpm ( valve springs limit to day in motorcycle technology due to size of the engines and of the the size valves).@@endurofan9854
Not any worse than a 60's muscle car with solid lifters. You either love the sound or you don't. But it's part and parcel of loving a Ducati.
TL:DR cars don’t need deso-valves. Too expensive and too complicated. Not enough rpm’s to warrant use.
Here’s how I see it: motorcycle production has always been way less than car production. So it makes sense for cars to be more cheaply made and not built for the enthusiast. For example, Ford sold 15 million model T’s in just a handful of years. During that same time frame, Harley Davidson sold a grand total of maybe 400,000 units? Motorcycles are for the enthusiast and cars are for the working man. A valve spring is cheap and easy to make and the spring itself never needs to be adjusted. The deso-valve is a more complicated system and requires finer tuning compared to a traditional camshaft and valve system. It’s great for performance! But it’s expensive and complicated. And for the average commuter that just doesn’t make sense. But even for a performance car it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense as the bigger engines usually dont achieve the rpm’s necessary to warrant the use of the fancy valve.
Anjay,, becomes english channel
rugi cuy bikin animasi tapi kontennya cm bhs indo
You talk too fast, but @ .75 speed, your voice is not shrill, and I can follow.
Slow down, it will be so much easier to understand.
This overlitre engine is more like an engine to succeed in a race. If you drive slowly, this engine will definitely lose its vitality. Ducati hopes to apply the system to motorcycles with low CC.
Riders are crashing because the motor is too wild?? WTF? All Motogp riders without a Duc would want this “problem”!
How it works.. bukan its
Come Zapped 😂
How the hell do they machine all this stuff to work perfectly????
Voodoo witchcraft
road to the heaven
Norton used Desmo in 1924-25
I know of an experimental Norton desmodromic project in 1959, but not 1924-5. That would have been at the end of James Norton's life. Any information?
5:48 5:53 6:02
As of 2023, Desmodromic valve system is rather outdated...Honda's Vtech was far superior - but now that is outdated as well. We have cam technology that as surpassed the efficiency and output of desmo. And yet, Ducati is still using this desmo valve on...Desert X!!!! WHY?!?!?!
Why it's Ducati if you need more explanation then you will never understand. It's Ducati it's Ducati it's Ducati.
@@theEVILone0130 and I keep buying them because I'm addicted. ;) Safe riding
@@LooxJJ I keep trying to talk myself into buying one, I really want one but I'm one of these idiots who when I get something really sweet something bad happens. My 64 Impala was stolen, my shaved dropped in the weeds with a 351 Windsor with Cleveland 2 barrel heads and custom sheet aluminum intake got hit by a little old lady that ran a stop sign. My 71 Cheyenne with a 402 and turbo 400 was crunched when a tornado came through and a large limb fell across the cab front left to right. And my 62 chevy pickup was caught by the same tree limb. My 550 Honda got caught in a garage fire at the in-laws. It always seems to happen to my nice rides. My POS always seems to come out of everything a-okay. Heck my 72 mustang I tried to blow the motor up and drove it until it was out of oil and still drove it ten miles home had to add four quarts of oil to it and drove it for another two months before selling it for 3500. But I keep thinking if I get a Ducati what would happen to it. So far my 85 Maserati quattroporte is spending most of it's time in my buddys climate controlled shop and i take it out once a week and drive it about 70 miles or so to the neighboring town and go to the hardware store and the auto parts store for odds and ends that I include when I ship parts out. I recycle Alfa Romeo and Maseratis with an occasional Ferrari, Lamborghini and Fiat Dino thrown in. And one Canadian Citroen SM. It's ugly as sin but it's got a Maserati engine and hydraulic suspension and includes a jack stand in place of the jack. But it had a heated front and rear windshields and molded glass headlight covers that you can't find in the US sold car's. The front windshield has a bronze colored tint that heats up to defrost it. Well I'd better stop rambling and do something productive for the day.
If it was all that great, everyone would be doing it.
yep by performance and responsiveness it is great,
but then the costs and cons are great too so thats why
Valve spring makers hate him..
Yeah no tango chico echo
Sorry but I could not understand most of what you were trying to say.
DeSmos not Demos.
You said Demos instead of the correct Desmos.
Demos does not mean "relationship or bound" as you say.
Demos means "the everyday people of an ancient Greek state OR the populace of a '''''Demo-cracy''''' as a political unit"
Desmos means "relationship or bond" and is the word you are looking for.
As far as the poor english pronunciation part is concerned, just keep practicing. In the meantime, please get someone with a much better pronunciation to do the narration!
Nice explanation but your accent... uhh it's so hard to listen
wont work
yes, it failed, thats why no company uses it like Ducati, they think it won't work.
How its works
3:15 Holy Pha King Honk 👃🏽Honk 👃🏽 🤣
Ahspeak a creer Eng reesh!