"Poppet valves" are the correct term for *all* engine valves in the familiar shape, not just the ones used in desmodromic engines. (It's more commonly used in British English, but it applies to all valves of that shape).
Dead right! I was wondering when someone would point that out. I'm surprised that someone creating an automotive channel would not know that. There are at least three types of valves- poppet, rotary and sleeve valves.
Yeah, yeah, and if the producers were worried about being technically correct, the discussion would be based upon Oscillation, not "revolutions per minute" and mass. The numbers are half as big and don't impress anyone who measures their life by max rpm, peak HP, or RADAR assisted driver aids. They produce videos for entertainment, not education.
@@GR1M_ they are pretty quick too they're the top of the list of commentators. Someone told me if enough people complain about them RUclips will finally do some action against them. The *'Crypto bots"* are the one that I don't like 🤦
tbh many mechanics do even want to deal with this, is just too much labor and the parts are expensive af. A lot of the time you are better of just buying an used (or new) engine.
Jeremiah is the resident bike guy there I think. I always catch him wearing TransWorld MX shirts and stuff. Gotta think he's the one pushing for including bikes too. I love it. Maybe he should do an episode on why it took so long for 2-stroke MX bikes to get fuel injection?
It would be nice to see something on the 2 cycle fuel injection systems or at least try and bring popularity back to the 2 stroke world. It sucks though especially for Chemifornia with their upcoming ban on small engines which is absolutely PATHETIC not to mention every other ban and law they are putting in place. (But it is fine for certain people to violate the rules at their wishes) But before believing everything you are told about this "climate science" or anything "science" really, learn what the word science means first and do your own research into the climate and what all influences it (such as the sun) and then make your own decisions. You still are free to think regardless of where you live.
"Why doesn't anyone else use desmo valves?" Two reasons. A: It's expensive to service and more complex, nobody wants to work on it and nobody wants to pay for that work And B: The Japanese manufacturers already pulled off 19,000 RPM with standard valvetrains... in the 80's... and those bikes are still running to this day The better question is why Ducati bothers
Yep, i owned a 1990 ZXR250R that had a 19,000 rev limit, it was boringly reliable despite getting the living shit thrashed out of it. The guy i sold it to still owns and rides it, never had a problem. Hondas RC148 125cc five and RC115 50cc twin from the 1960s Gran Prix years revved to 21,000 rpm on standard valve train. But "Doocahtees are Badaasss" :-)
Ducati only still uses is out of tradition. Like why Porsche still uses a flat 6 in the back of the 911, because the fans of the brand would riot if they didn't.
@@sillapopulares Old high capacity 2 strokes and 06' Yamaha R6 does. 16k+ It's mostly low capacity engines for reliability sake. Pushing 1000cc at 16+krpm is less than ideal considering the piston speed.
SlappyValve Merch 100% needs to happen. Fantastic video as always: props to everyone in the animation side. It’s all the details (b-roll, behind the camera snickers/comments, animation, sound effects) heck even the sponsor portion of the video that makes this channel great. The hosts’ and guest appearances are always entertaining and informative. Each host has their own personality that adds the right spice to each of the series on the channel. Keep up the fantastic work Donut Media
I would love to see Jerry on a weekly bike episode. From super bikes to dirt bikes, manufacturer history, races, all things on 2 wheels. There is a lot of content there I think.
Recently watched a thing about Pegaso, in the 50s they built a car with a 32 valve quad cam V8 with desmodromic valves. The whole thing was nuts and 50 years ahead of it's time. All aluminum, dry sump, 5 speed transaxle. And it was one of those cars that had to be finished by a coachbuilder, so each one was unique. Absolutely gorgeous cars.
because they are are a jack of all trades, but master of none. flex fuel is mandatory in here in brazil, the cars can chug anything, but they lose some power/efficiency that they could have if the engine was specialized to a single fuel
Because your Cummins gets 25-40%(year dependant) thermal efficiency on diesel by being specialized, whereas flex fuel engines can vary as wildly as 4-30% depending on what you put in it.
One of the biggest problems as mentioned above is thermal. Ethanol burns with less heat. That means less energy. If you don't mind, you can actually convert most vehicles. It just isn't worth your many. If anything, it's a waste. The biggest issue is gaskets and hoses. Flex fuel vehicles have special rubber that can handle the gas/ethanol mix without being deteriorated.
I can still remember back when jeremiah was the new guy in donut, and ppl cringed about his pumphrey-ish delivery and actuations. You proved ‘em all wrong jerrbear
@@sanderprins3091 Came to say that. One of the greatest projects I've ever seen on YT. It's a shame the "documentation" just stopped. Hope it'll be finished one day.
-The new monster they show- -throughout the vid also doesn't- -have desmodromic valves anymore. Apparently- -someone didn't do their homework at Donut- Edit: I was wrong, the new monster does come with desmo valves & I should do my homework
I was ASE certified in engine performance and engine repair (and a few others.... Not master cert.) I love seeing these types of videos. Brings back Hella cool memories!
Back in like 05 or 06, I didn't know anything about bikes but wanted a R6 just because it revs to the moon. If I actually had the money back then who's to say I would be here today because the guy at the bike told me it didn't matter what you get as a 1st bike because you get used to it fast.
@@sillapopulares In this case it have nothing to do with displacement. It can be a limiting factor, but even on a smaller engine the valves still have to do the same job. In the video it's about valves.
You totally missed the point that Ducati had to stick to the desmo technology because of their adherence to 2 cylinder design (until recently...). A 4 cylinder equivalent has much smaller and more light weight valves and consequently less inertia and doesn't need desmo's to rev the engine sufficiently to squeeze out the desired power.
Everything about this video is fantastic. Interesting, informative, well produced, clearly written and well explained, and as always, great humor that doesn't condescend to the audience. Such great work. Keep it up!
This actually solves a huge problem. Practically a holy grail. I have to say efficiency drops off after 6,000 rpm due to time for the fuel to burn per cycle. I'm amazed I haven't heard of this. Everyone wanted it. Horsepower is multiplied by RPM (lower gear longer).
@@ohanaross-roberts97 It probably has nothing to do with the video, but they are technically patented. It's dumb. Harley Davidson's are the only motorcycle that sounds exactly the way it does because it is patented -as an example.
My buddy Jimmie had several early desmo Ducatis. He would remove the heads to set the valve lash on his work bench. Never seen belt-drive desmo valves set. Ducati brought desmo valving to the street by putting small springs on the valves that allowed it to run at starting speeds unlike the Norton singles that first got desmo valving and had to be pushed quite fast to start.
Interesting definitions of poppet valve and valve float. Poppet refers to the sealing part of the valve, which is the same in both designs shown. As for float, the valve does not always close at the same speed, but rather the spring should keep the system under tension until the valve is fully closed. If the valve cannot close as fast as the lobe retreats, that's float.
The desmodromic was once.maybe needed before 40 years or more ago . Now manufacturers can build really high revving engine with classic valve springs . Ducati is just using the desmo thingy for a selling purpose and marketing nothing more. It's not even their tech so I cannot understand why would they be so proud of it. Pf whatever.
Same reason Mazda ran with the rotary for so long despite no one else wanting to adopt the technology. Just to be able to claim a huge, faceless corporation that is run by committee and focus groups, can still produce something truly unique in the marketplace. Those wankel boys live and die by the dorito engine. Desmo guys are driven by the same distain for valve springs, i guess🤷♂️
@@jimjimmy3131 it does help with giant valves needed for Ducati's huge cc per cylinder.. let's em get away with different cam profiles. But yeah mostly it's pointless complexity.
@@jimjimmy3131 In the 60s Honda was winning GPs on the RC148 125cc five cylinder and RC115 50cc twin that revved to 21,000 RPM on standard valve springs. By the late 80s you could buy production bikes that revved to 19,000 RPM, The time (if there ever was one) of having any benefit over the much simpler spring is long passed. Its like you said, a marketing ploy.
Awesome video as always but just a minor point, desmo valves are poppet valves just like normal valves. A poppet is just a valve actuated via a stem. The lighter valves are down to material and construction advancements.
My questions are: a) Could you get rid of the sliding friction with a roller bearing/roller rocker in that spot? 12:00 b) Could a spring be used to cushion/reduce the closing force of the valve at the last minute? Sure it'd add a small amount of spring tension to the system but surely itd be no more than you lose from the violent slapping of the valve... Elaborating on b) The valve stem could be a small collapsed spring inside the tube - when opening it would act as a solid stem and push the valve down just the same but on pulling up it would stretch the spring. If the spring rate was set just right could it be balanced so that the force required to pull the valve up is low enough that the spring barely gives but when it contacts the seat the slight increase in pressure causes the spring to give resulting in a softer landing. It also wouldnt have the issues of a traditional spring system as the mechanical push/pull would be providing the same function as the spring pulling back so the springs speed would be irrelevant at higher RPM and at lower RPM any lost momentum from pulling on the spring would be regained when the spring pulled back "assisting" the assembly on the next opening event. You could even have the valve be a normal valve but have a second seat inside the valve guide and have it act on that one.
Great video! Just a quick heads up on the spell checking: @7:51 when you talk about the 1956 125cc the technology is actually spelt "Trialbero", which literally translates to triple cams!
Yeah, let’s drop a Ducati engine into our cars so we have to have valve adjustments every 10K miles that you have to pay a Ducati dealership $100 an hour for labor to perform.
The highest revving engines use valve springs, the system, as you say, did help with revs but what it was great for was allowing the use of a radical cam at high revs.
Literally, as you're about to smash the newspapers I thought "damn, he should burn those" and right then you turned to the camera and grabbed the torch...You're hilarious, love watching your b2b
I’m thoroughly impressed by that diy flamethrower used in the ad, 10/10 ad viewing experience; might even look at their website instead of totaling ignoring it just because of that
Before I continue with the video. I have been thinking about doing a Ducati engine swap into small hatchback for quite some time, so you're not entire wrong with your suggestion Jerry!
@Lassi Kinnunen 81 oh I understand your point. I've had a CBR1000RR engine in mind too, just cause I think Busas have been used too much. I've thought about getting with a workshop and design a V8 CBR engine, just like the V8 Busa on the Atom. I don't know, we'll see. But thanks for the input, I appreciate it
I had a teacher in high school that daily rode a beautifully restorded 350 Desmo single. The sound of that thing is what started my love affair with bikes.
Man I'm loving the bike content. Jeremiah has become so much better as a host. loved seeing him talking while on the bike. much more jeremiah motorcycle stuff please!
It's sad but inevitable. Too many consumers that demand constant change/improvements in this modern age. Nobody is interested in challenges. Also, many are financially inept and as a result have no time for solving mechanical issues since they're constantly working.
Many of the "problems" you mention are related to early Desmo engines. Latest Ducati engine have valve service intervals similar to most other sport bikes (12 000 - 15 000 ish miles). DLC coatings and modern metallurgy for the rockers and cams help alot and the keeper springs also reduce the slapping from the return cam. Also, the sliding friction from the return rocker is still much less than the opening friction from a high-rate valvespring. And alsooo... all these engines use poppet valves. That's what they are called. Not just on Desmo engines. On a side note, the 11 000 RPM Cosworth V12 in the Valkyrie has 6 000 mile valve clearance checks, same as Pagani's new 9 000 RPM V12R. I'm guessing the 12 000 RPM Cosworth V12 in the GMA T50 will be similar. They also use geartrains to drive the cams, so NVH is low on the list. I'd love to see Desmo tried on a high-end high-revving NA supercar, just for the hell of it.
There’s a little error at 7:50, it’s “Trialbero” not “Trailbero”: is a word composed by “Tri” which is an Italian technical prefix meaning “Three” and “Albero” that can be translated with “Shaft” so it’s name suggests that the engine has 3 camshafts 👍🏼. ITALY LOVES YOU 🇮🇹
Just a note.... In the 60's Honda had GP engines that revved to 20,000+ rpm......springs and all. The big four Japanese moto makers had street legal production 250cc bikes that revved to 17,000rpm in the 80's....springs and all. I just so happen to be doing a belt change/valve clearance check on my Desmo bike. It's my first time having one apart and it really is a bizarre feeling when you rotate the crank and there is no typical valve spring resistance pushing against you.....gives you an idea of how much power it takes to compress those springs. Braaap !
Poppet valves - just to say that all engines use poppet valves, not only Ducati. The most famous alternative was sleeve valves, the most well-known being the Daimler Knight engine.
"So, as the cam spins faster the valve opens faster, but it will always close at the same speed." No, this statement is false, and displays woefully inadequate understanding. As long as the valvetrain is operating under a speed which valve float would occur the speed of movement of the valves, both opening and closing, is directly proportional to the speed the camshaft is turning. He is jumping the gun, describing what happens during valve float, not what happens during normal operation.
My first time hearing a Ducati 996 I thought it had a V8 from that deep grumbling instead of the normal high pitch sound most sports or superbikes make.
I wanna see Jeremiah do a fullkitted stuntbike for next moneypit🤩 either a kawasaki 636 03-04 or a honda cbr 600 F4i🤩🤩🤩 Please donut! Make this a thing😍🤩😍
Desmo valves aren't at all needed for high RPM, proper engineering is, Italians just like to take shortcuts, even if that means *cough*1grandfordesmovalveadjustments*cough*
I guess when Desmo was introduced valve bonce at high RPMs..(racing).. was a problem. This is negated now by using four valves a cylinder plus metallurgy has moved on.
@Tyler Braden Yea sorry valve adjustment only on my BMW costs 20 bucks if you do all that. That's a bs argument lol. Many people can't take their bikes to a shop half disassembled, and you have to have enough parts on to actually make the bike run, which is still hours of labour at ducati's extortionate prices. That's just not how it works...
Thanks to Morning Brew, we get treated to yet another awesome and hilarious ad. 🙂 I could never skip these, these guys are so freakin' good putting them together.
Not just the valve issues, but typical car engines have bigger pistons and more stroke than any bike - which is why they're not as rev-happy. It's the reciprocating mass that puts more of a limit on things. The fastest revving piston engine cars also use a pneumatic system instead of a mechanical spring too.
Slappy valve gang
Slappy valve gang
Hell yeah baby!!
Man i never saw Ducati bike in real life nor heard it
@@MrFish-rq7so were tf do you live hahaha
@@Jacopo599 Bosnia and Herzegovina why
Shout out to the animation peeps. Great job guys and gals.
“And non-binary pals” - s/o to Kenji Lopez Alt
Knowing a fair amount of graphic animation myself, this is crazy great work this episode. I could never come close haha.
Especially compared to the graphics on the other Ducati video! If you didn't check it out, the difference is even crazier than you probably think... 😂
Yeah, they finally managed to make animations exceeding 10fps
@@danvenegas6818 there's no such thing as non-binary
“He can fix moving metal,but he can’t fix his broken heart.”
-Jerrbear.
right in the feels
He called me out 😔
@@johnfran3218 A totally irrelevant comment go preach you BS elsewhere.
What is up with bots target this channel?
@@masterplayer5982 its a plague through all of youtube
I think Ducati's most important engineering feat is having the coolest names for their bikes. "Panigale" or "Desmosedici" adds 25hp.
Hodaka had great names too. Combat Wombat, Road Toad.
It also makes you looks smarter and gives +10 to respect. :)
They're cool names unless you speak Italian, and then you realize they are literally just descriptions of the bikes.
Its Just an italian things. Remember, maserati Quattroporte meant maserati four door. 🤷🏾
And they are red! Red makes things go faster.
Desmo is Italian for “You open it, you close it yourself cause this aint no self closing door.”
Desmo valves: great for RPMs bad for wallets
No way I just watched your podcast
The Daytona Slayer himself is upon us....
Heyyyy papa yam is here!
The mighty yam has spoken
Quit subliminally reminding me to buy an R3.
“When a valve and a piston get into a fist fight, you know who wins? Your mechanic”. 😂
Flag on the play: Interference!
We should’ve seen that coming but didn’t. I laughed so hard lol
More bike content please!!!
I need a slappy valve shirt.
hello verified
Slappy
Same
Me too pls make it a thing Donut!
@@weirdbeardgarage me too
"Poppet valves" are the correct term for *all* engine valves in the familiar shape, not just the ones used in desmodromic engines. (It's more commonly used in British English, but it applies to all valves of that shape).
Dead right! I was wondering when someone would point that out. I'm surprised that someone creating an automotive channel would not know that. There are at least three types of valves- poppet, rotary and sleeve valves.
Yeah, yeah, and if the producers were worried about being technically correct, the discussion would be based upon Oscillation, not "revolutions per minute" and mass.
The numbers are half as big and don't impress anyone who measures their life by max rpm, peak HP, or RADAR assisted driver aids.
They produce videos for entertainment, not education.
J-Bones, I love that you’re a bike dude. Thanks for this! I’ve got a 2013 Streetfighter 848 and love seeing you guys talk Ducati.
The tiniest part that make a Ducati fast is my credit card.
So many botss
Bots are Faster than your credit card.
True
Lol. Truffff
@@GR1M_ they are pretty quick too they're the top of the list of commentators.
Someone told me if enough people complain about them RUclips will finally do some action against them.
The *'Crypto bots"* are the one that I don't like 🤦
"When your valve and piston get in a fist fight."
Mechanic: Payday
nice one jeremiah
tbh many mechanics do even want to deal with this, is just too much labor and the parts are expensive af. A lot of the time you are better of just buying an used (or new) engine.
I see Jeremiah holding a Desmo-Valve and immediately know, "Ahhh the Ducati's secret weapon." Love that you guys are incorporating motorcycles!
Jeremiah is the resident bike guy there I think. I always catch him wearing TransWorld MX shirts and stuff. Gotta think he's the one pushing for including bikes too. I love it.
Maybe he should do an episode on why it took so long for 2-stroke MX bikes to get fuel injection?
It would be nice to see something on the 2 cycle fuel injection systems or at least try and bring popularity back to the 2 stroke world. It sucks though especially for Chemifornia with their upcoming ban on small engines which is absolutely PATHETIC not to mention every other ban and law they are putting in place. (But it is fine for certain people to violate the rules at their wishes) But before believing everything you are told about this "climate science" or anything "science" really, learn what the word science means first and do your own research into the climate and what all influences it (such as the sun) and then make your own decisions. You still are free to think regardless of where you live.
Waiting for Forza to add motorcycles
@@TheMX957 weight, money, tradition
"Why doesn't anyone else use desmo valves?"
Two reasons. A: It's expensive to service and more complex, nobody wants to work on it and nobody wants to pay for that work
And B: The Japanese manufacturers already pulled off 19,000 RPM with standard valvetrains... in the 80's... and those bikes are still running to this day
The better question is why Ducati bothers
That’s the perfect answer explained in a few lines. Nothing more to add.
Yep, i owned a 1990 ZXR250R that had a 19,000 rev limit, it was boringly reliable despite getting the living shit thrashed out of it. The guy i sold it to still owns and rides it, never had a problem. Hondas RC148 125cc five and RC115 50cc twin from the 1960s Gran Prix years revved to 21,000 rpm on standard valve train.
But "Doocahtees are Badaasss" :-)
Ducati only still uses is out of tradition. Like why Porsche still uses a flat 6 in the back of the 911, because the fans of the brand would riot if they didn't.
@@uhtred7860 those bikes have a much smaller displacement
@@sillapopulares Old high capacity 2 strokes and 06' Yamaha R6 does. 16k+
It's mostly low capacity engines for reliability sake. Pushing 1000cc at 16+krpm is less than ideal considering the piston speed.
Keep the bike vids coming. Not enough good motorcycle content out there and we need Donut to come through for us!
in case you haven't heard of them, FortNine makes excellent motorcycle content
we want a "money pit" season with Jeremiah
He's big into dirt bikes so that'd be fun as hell
@@DreamingAnonymous he's also into sport bikes iirc
Money pit motorcycle edition would be sick
It should be "money pit bikes" but why take zach's show it could be a collaboration situation
JER PLEASE MAKE MOTORCYCLE CONTENT THX
"He can fix moving metal, but he cant fix his broken heart".... I felt that.
SlappyValve Merch 100% needs to happen. Fantastic video as always: props to everyone in the animation side. It’s all the details (b-roll, behind the camera snickers/comments, animation, sound effects) heck even the sponsor portion of the video that makes this channel great. The hosts’ and guest appearances are always entertaining and informative. Each host has their own personality that adds the right spice to each of the series on the channel. Keep up the fantastic work Donut Media
Yes, yes, yes! Ans add his friend Desmo-Donny!
This comment is pure truth and honestly does not get said enough. @donut media we love you.
I would love to see Jerry on a weekly bike episode. From super bikes to dirt bikes, manufacturer history, races, all things on 2 wheels. There is a lot of content there I think.
Recently watched a thing about Pegaso, in the 50s they built a car with a 32 valve quad cam V8 with desmodromic valves. The whole thing was nuts and 50 years ahead of it's time. All aluminum, dry sump, 5 speed transaxle. And it was one of those cars that had to be finished by a coachbuilder, so each one was unique. Absolutely gorgeous cars.
I'd love to see an up to speed on a multifuel engine. Why can they run on anything that burns but my cummins blows up when I put gas in it?
A b2b would make more sense
because they are are a jack of all trades, but master of none. flex fuel is mandatory in here in brazil, the cars can chug anything, but they lose some power/efficiency that they could have if the engine was specialized to a single fuel
Because your Cummins gets 25-40%(year dependant) thermal efficiency on diesel by being specialized, whereas flex fuel engines can vary as wildly as 4-30% depending on what you put in it.
Because you have to fold your mirrors down first. Pro tip.
One of the biggest problems as mentioned above is thermal. Ethanol burns with less heat. That means less energy. If you don't mind, you can actually convert most vehicles. It just isn't worth your many. If anything, it's a waste. The biggest issue is gaskets and hoses. Flex fuel vehicles have special rubber that can handle the gas/ethanol mix without being deteriorated.
I can still remember back when jeremiah was the new guy in donut, and ppl cringed about his pumphrey-ish delivery and actuations. You proved ‘em all wrong jerrbear
All I know is, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
it's the people that can't even formulate a sentence in front of cameras talking crap lol
The Jerry hate was hardcore on FB lol he really grew into the role though
I literally thought they were two other dudes....
As much as a Ducati swap interests me, I always had more interest in a 2 stroke 6 cyl Johnson boat motor swap. The sound would be spectacular
I work at an Evinrude (now Mercury) dealer… I would love nothing more!!
Rudezon is a drag car made from a volvo amazone with a v8 2stroke evinrude motor
@@sanderprins3091
Came to say that. One of the greatest projects I've ever seen on YT.
It's a shame the "documentation" just stopped. Hope it'll be finished one day.
Let me correct you here, *Mercury 2 stroke V6 😂 (in all seriousness, there’s a guy I saw on Tiktok getting 2stroke Mercs to something like 14k)
I had no idea that this technology even existed.
So, Thank you for educating me.
I always knew ducati's were badass and now I know why. 👍👍
If you take a loot at the ducati clubs, the official ones are called desmo club, because of that system ^^
1991 Honda CBR250RR 19000 RPM had springs but gear driven cams.30 years old and still doing 19000 and around the 45 HP
Today marks the birth of SLAPPY VALVE. This needs to be a thing. The Mr. Hanky-Poo type of voice is perfect. I cannot stress this enough.
If they made shirts or hoodies I'd buy both
That Ducati pictured on the timeline was a 250 Monza and doesn’t have Desmodromic valves. One of very few non-Desmo Ducatis.
-The new monster they show- -throughout the vid also doesn't- -have desmodromic valves anymore. Apparently- -someone didn't do their homework at Donut-
Edit: I was wrong, the new monster does come with desmo valves & I should do my homework
Damn it
@@philipe.9466 i was watching this thinking 'i'm sure the new monster is spring valves now' :-)
@@philipe.9466 you are wrong the multistrada v4 is the only ducati that does not have desmo
@@stevewallace853 nope still desmo
When a valve and a piston get in a fist fight, do you know who wins?
Your mechanic.
Absolute gold!!
My a3 taught me this in a painful lesson
@@TheDRDUCKY Well, Ducati is owned by Audi as well... coincidence?
If I’m on my ex’s ride…those valves and pistons are fighting with me cheering them on. 👍
I was ASE certified in engine performance and engine repair (and a few others.... Not master cert.) I love seeing these types of videos. Brings back Hella cool memories!
Thanks for not playing any engine noises the whole video. It was great getting to hear how awesome these engines sound without actually hearing them
Man whoever edits these videos. Shout-out going to you for the consistency and creativity.
"He can fix moving metal . But can't fix his broken heart. "
*this hit too hard*
Calm down weirdo
Everyone, we’re in the golden age of Donut
*Enjoy, there’s no time like the present*
Naw. Science Garage days were golden.
@@Azrael138 science garage, up to speed, man.
"17,000 rpms!"
Laughs in Yamaha. The R6 does 16,500 WITHOUT desmo 🤣
Back in like 05 or 06, I didn't know anything about bikes but wanted a R6 just because it revs to the moon. If I actually had the money back then who's to say I would be here today because the guy at the bike told me it didn't matter what you get as a 1st bike because you get used to it fast.
it's still a smaller displacement
In the 90's there were a few I4 250 ccs motorcycles that revved to 20K rpms, like the honda cbr250rr.
@@sillapopulares In this case it have nothing to do with displacement. It can be a limiting factor, but even on a smaller engine the valves still have to do the same job. In the video it's about valves.
Still a mystery how yama can make so many horses so boring.
You totally missed the point that Ducati had to stick to the desmo technology because of their adherence to 2 cylinder design (until recently...).
A 4 cylinder equivalent has much smaller and more light weight valves and consequently less inertia and doesn't need desmo's to rev the engine sufficiently to squeeze out the desired power.
Everything about this video is fantastic. Interesting, informative, well produced, clearly written and well explained, and as always, great humor that doesn't condescend to the audience. Such great work. Keep it up!
More bike content please! Much, much more! It has become a moral imperative!
"Highest revving supercars are only making 11,000 RPM..."
takumi:"hold my tofu"
Honda: hold my gear-driven cams
This actually solves a huge problem.
Practically a holy grail.
I have to say efficiency drops off after 6,000 rpm due to time for the fuel to burn per cycle.
I'm amazed I haven't heard of this. Everyone wanted it. Horsepower is multiplied by RPM (lower gear longer).
"Superbikes are supposed to be driven around 3,000 miles per year" *laughs in 10k miles in 7 months*
That “should’ve hired me” was lowkey personal lol
You talk about the sounds of every engine but don't actually play the sound of any of them?
They're copyrighted
@@cscarlton24 bruh are you actually that dumb? Or your joking?
Great point! Give us the audible "BEANS"!
@@ohanaross-roberts97 It probably has nothing to do with the video, but they are technically patented. It's dumb. Harley Davidson's are the only motorcycle that sounds exactly the way it does because it is patented -as an example.
@@ohanaross-roberts97 got em!
I love it! More motorcycle content! Thank you Donut for your hard work!
My buddy Jimmie had several early desmo Ducatis. He would remove the heads to set the valve lash on his work bench. Never seen belt-drive desmo valves set. Ducati brought desmo valving to the street by putting small springs on the valves that allowed it to run at starting speeds unlike the Norton singles that first got desmo valving and had to be pushed quite fast to start.
Interesting definitions of poppet valve and valve float. Poppet refers to the sealing part of the valve, which is the same in both designs shown. As for float, the valve does not always close at the same speed, but rather the spring should keep the system under tension until the valve is fully closed. If the valve cannot close as fast as the lobe retreats, that's float.
F*** YEAH!!
I want a bike show, or more content about them, cause we Jeremiah and i love them!!
#Bikelife 🏍💨
It's so good that literally nobody else does it.
The desmodromic was once.maybe needed before 40 years or more ago . Now manufacturers can build really high revving engine with classic valve springs . Ducati is just using the desmo thingy for a selling purpose and marketing nothing more. It's not even their tech so I cannot understand why would they be so proud of it. Pf whatever.
Same reason Mazda ran with the rotary for so long despite no one else wanting to adopt the technology. Just to be able to claim a huge, faceless corporation that is run by committee and focus groups, can still produce something truly unique in the marketplace.
Those wankel boys live and die by the dorito engine. Desmo guys are driven by the same distain for valve springs, i guess🤷♂️
@@jimjimmy3131 it does help with giant valves needed for Ducati's huge cc per cylinder.. let's em get away with different cam profiles. But yeah mostly it's pointless complexity.
@@contextualchocolate nvh = big sping. I hate big spring. solenoids for life.
@@jimjimmy3131 In the 60s Honda was winning GPs on the RC148 125cc five cylinder and RC115 50cc twin that revved to 21,000 RPM on standard valve springs. By the late 80s you could buy production bikes that revved to 19,000 RPM, The time (if there ever was one) of having any benefit over the much simpler spring is long passed. Its like you said, a marketing ploy.
Jeremiah must be ecstatic he gets to make more motorcycle content
Awesome video as always but just a minor point, desmo valves are poppet valves just like normal valves. A poppet is just a valve actuated via a stem. The lighter valves are down to material and construction advancements.
My questions are:
a) Could you get rid of the sliding friction with a roller bearing/roller rocker in that spot? 12:00
b) Could a spring be used to cushion/reduce the closing force of the valve at the last minute? Sure it'd add a small amount of spring tension to the system but surely itd be no more than you lose from the violent slapping of the valve...
Elaborating on b) The valve stem could be a small collapsed spring inside the tube - when opening it would act as a solid stem and push the valve down just the same but on pulling up it would stretch the spring. If the spring rate was set just right could it be balanced so that the force required to pull the valve up is low enough that the spring barely gives but when it contacts the seat the slight increase in pressure causes the spring to give resulting in a softer landing. It also wouldnt have the issues of a traditional spring system as the mechanical push/pull would be providing the same function as the spring pulling back so the springs speed would be irrelevant at higher RPM and at lower RPM any lost momentum from pulling on the spring would be regained when the spring pulled back "assisting" the assembly on the next opening event.
You could even have the valve be a normal valve but have a second seat inside the valve guide and have it act on that one.
Most Ducatis built for street use have small torsion springs on each valve to aid in closing at low engine speeds.
Great video! Just a quick heads up on the spell checking: @7:51 when you talk about the 1956 125cc the technology is actually spelt "Trialbero", which literally translates to triple cams!
Yeah, let’s drop a Ducati engine into our cars so we have to have valve adjustments every 10K miles that you have to pay a Ducati dealership $100 an hour for labor to perform.
Day 1 of requesting HiLow supermoto build with JerrBear and Eddie.
Second that
Yes please
The highest revving engines use valve springs, the system, as you say, did help with revs but what it was great for was allowing the use of a radical cam at high revs.
Desmodronic valves, dry cluthes, belt drive, 90 degree V twin, that is why i love Ducati !
"Bless up and down"...... I'm dying here, Badass new shirt!
Literally, as you're about to smash the newspapers I thought "damn, he should burn those" and right then you turned to the camera and grabbed the torch...You're hilarious, love watching your b2b
“If you have an interference engine, you are not going to like this part”
“Kaboom”
“Yes Rico, kaboom”
lol
This is by far the BEST intro for B2B ,
I watched it over and over and laughed ,
Brilliant !
Well, I've had my 748s since 2000, and I still love it. It works perfectly fine and is loud as hell. Sooo, how about a video about the dry clutch? :)
“Do you think I can go 225 on this thing?”
Instantly drives past a 40mph speed limit sign 😂
Better not be speeding there Jeremiah 😂
Day 99 of asking Donut media to do either a Up To Speed or a Wheel house on the oil crisis
I want one about the ww1
🤣🤣
uppppp
me too
boy
me too
Use a tank engine in a car
Here when the title was “This tiny part is what makes Ducatis fast”
So hip.
You should do a vid about the 19-20k RPM Honda and Yamaha from the 80's. Not a serious bike guy but those 250's always sound amazing at full tilt.
I’m thoroughly impressed by that diy flamethrower used in the ad, 10/10 ad viewing experience; might even look at their website instead of totaling ignoring it just because of that
why am i almost crying over pop up and down headlights? James really hitting me in the feels
Ducati with the Desmo and dry clutch sound good but are a real pain in neck to maintain.
Before I continue with the video. I have been thinking about doing a Ducati engine swap into small hatchback for quite some time, so you're not entire wrong with your suggestion Jerry!
@Lassi Kinnunen 81 oh I understand your point. I've had a CBR1000RR engine in mind too, just cause I think Busas have been used too much. I've thought about getting with a workshop and design a V8 CBR engine, just like the V8 Busa on the Atom. I don't know, we'll see. But thanks for the input, I appreciate it
90s geo metro
I had a teacher in high school that daily rode a beautifully restorded 350 Desmo single. The sound of that thing is what started my love affair with bikes.
Man I'm loving the bike content. Jeremiah has become so much better as a host. loved seeing him talking while on the bike. much more jeremiah motorcycle stuff please!
I love unique engine setups. Gonna miss them when all the cars sound like
It's sad but inevitable. Too many consumers that demand constant change/improvements in this modern age. Nobody is interested in challenges. Also, many are financially inept and as a result have no time for solving mechanical issues since they're constantly working.
"Most super bikes only get about 3k miles a year"
Then there's me who put 15k miles on my panigale v4s on the first year 🤣
How is the reliability?
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 honestly? Not bad but it is a bitch and a half to schedule maintenance let me tell you something
When he said "I have seen weirder things" I'm just curious what kind of things........
Same
@@ousqa haha, you know I'm really thinking about a ducati engine swap, it's a great idea
Loveddddd the video man.... your videos are the epitome of automotive content on RUclips!
Many of the "problems" you mention are related to early Desmo engines. Latest Ducati engine have valve service intervals similar to most other sport bikes (12 000 - 15 000 ish miles). DLC coatings and modern metallurgy for the rockers and cams help alot and the keeper springs also reduce the slapping from the return cam.
Also, the sliding friction from the return rocker is still much less than the opening friction from a high-rate valvespring.
And alsooo... all these engines use poppet valves. That's what they are called. Not just on Desmo engines.
On a side note, the 11 000 RPM Cosworth V12 in the Valkyrie has 6 000 mile valve clearance checks, same as Pagani's new 9 000 RPM V12R. I'm guessing the 12 000 RPM Cosworth V12 in the GMA T50 will be similar. They also use geartrains to drive the cams, so NVH is low on the list.
I'd love to see Desmo tried on a high-end high-revving NA supercar, just for the hell of it.
Thrilled to see some awesome bike content, please give us some more!
There’s a little error at 7:50, it’s “Trialbero” not “Trailbero”: is a word composed by “Tri” which is an Italian technical prefix meaning “Three” and “Albero” that can be translated with “Shaft” so it’s name suggests that the engine has 3 camshafts 👍🏼. ITALY LOVES YOU 🇮🇹
Stavo per scriverlo pure io. 👍
I love the motorcycle content!!!
Just a note.... In the 60's Honda had GP engines that revved to 20,000+ rpm......springs and all. The big four Japanese moto makers had street legal production 250cc bikes that revved to 17,000rpm in the 80's....springs and all. I just so happen to be doing a belt change/valve clearance check on my Desmo bike. It's my first time having one apart and it really is a bizarre feeling when you rotate the crank and there is no typical valve spring resistance pushing against you.....gives you an idea of how much power it takes to compress those springs. Braaap !
Thanks, dudes! Always good and hilarious videos! From Brazil!
Poppet valves - just to say that all engines use poppet valves, not only Ducati.
The most famous alternative was sleeve valves, the most well-known being the Daimler Knight engine.
Honestly if they had a show on the “what if’s” of the automotive would, I’d totally watch it.
I’ll watch more “Jerry Mulaney” bits 😆 thanks for teaching me about bikes, coz I have no idea. I know they rev higher, but I never got why. Or how.
Finally something that is about cars and it's not Top Gear like and still slaps. Like slappy valve. Keep 'em coming donut boys.
Your ads are way better than most channels' content
It would be interesting to see a money pit season with a "unexperienced" car enthusiasts
"So, as the cam spins faster the valve opens faster, but it will always close at the same speed."
No, this statement is false, and displays woefully inadequate understanding. As long as the valvetrain is operating under a speed which valve float would occur the speed of movement of the valves, both opening and closing, is directly proportional to the speed the camshaft is turning. He is jumping the gun, describing what happens during valve float, not what happens during normal operation.
True. Cam profile determines how fast the valve closes just as it determines how fast it opens. Normally.
The sound of an open exhaust 600rr at 16k is otherworldly.
the 250rr goes up to just under 20k
Poppet valves are used on desmo and standard engines. Same name.
Great job! Love the techy shtuff!
Subbed.
More bikes again!!! :--) Love it !!
My first time hearing a Ducati 996 I thought it had a V8 from that deep grumbling instead of the normal high pitch sound most sports or superbikes make.
I wanna see Jeremiah do a fullkitted stuntbike for next moneypit🤩 either a kawasaki 636 03-04 or a honda cbr 600 F4i🤩🤩🤩
Please donut! Make this a thing😍🤩😍
I 2nd this. Cmon JerrBear make it happen
Just wana say that this intro was one of the best i can think of. Didn't feel like any humor was forced, which was nice
this was a really well done video, today i learned i want a DUC motorcycle.
Desmo valves aren't at all needed for high RPM, proper engineering is, Italians just like to take shortcuts, even if that means *cough*1grandfordesmovalveadjustments*cough*
Plus another for labour.
I guess when Desmo was introduced valve bonce at high RPMs..(racing).. was a problem. This is negated now by using four valves a cylinder plus metallurgy has moved on.
@Tyler Braden Yea sorry valve adjustment only on my BMW costs 20 bucks if you do all that. That's a bs argument lol. Many people can't take their bikes to a shop half disassembled, and you have to have enough parts on to actually make the bike run, which is still hours of labour at ducati's extortionate prices. That's just not how it works...
I live for Jeremiah's ad reads. That is all.
C'mon we all slap our valves.
Thanks to Morning Brew, we get treated to yet another awesome and hilarious ad. 🙂
I could never skip these, these guys are so freakin' good putting them together.
Not just the valve issues, but typical car engines have bigger pistons and more stroke than any bike - which is why they're not as rev-happy. It's the reciprocating mass that puts more of a limit on things. The fastest revving piston engine cars also use a pneumatic system instead of a mechanical spring too.