@@Jehty_kinda depends on the bike. youd let it go through its normal warm up once cold start and ride normally for a bit to get up to optimal temp and then you can get into it. But the time frame to my knowledge is a bit different for different makes.
All depends on the situation mate. Under high loads, like climbing a hill, absolutely. Under low loads, like cruising along a flat road or slight decline with low throttle opening, lower rpm will put the engine under less stress.
It’s especially crucial in diesel engines. A diesel should never be held on low rpms as the dpf filter clogs and dual mass clutch wears. Every car and motorcycle has an optimal rpm range for travel. As the guy above me mentioned, you need to see what’s happening on the road. One thing i know is that a redline a day keeps the mechanic away.
Low rpm is only more stress if you demanding acceleration at that low rpm... Just down shift first when you want to accelerate. The issues with piston fouling or dpf in diesel cars will be taken care of with an occasional faster drive. The rest of the time just driving at lower rpm saves overall wear and fuel and for sports bikes protects your neighbours hearing.
My dad always drove at a modest pace. He hated too much high revving. I swear he felt more empathy for lubricated rotating engine components than he ever felt for a human. However, periodically, when an open road presented itself, he would open the throttle all the way and do a series of hard accelerations to max speed until he could no longer see any carbon burning in the exhaust smoke. “Gotta clear out some carbon” and off we would go. As a kid in the early 70’s dad cleaning the carbon out of whatever classic v-8 we owned at the time was my favorite thing.
P.s. The engineer in me feels compelled to add, I agree vehemently, don’t lug your engine. However, at revs higher than those considered lugging, component temperatures aren’t proportional to rpm, they are (non-linearly) proportional to power. It’s open throttle that raises temperatures to clear carbon deposits, not necessarily high rpm. For a given power, low rpm increases combustion chamber pressures (bad) and high rpm increases load on things like bearings and crank pins (also bad) where physics is about indisputable truths, engineering is about trade offs. So, my philosophy has always been cruise at middle range rpm’s and periodically drive the snot out of it to keep deposits from building up. Automatic transmissions in a world absent CARB standards would be designed to do exactly that. However, in our real world they tend to bias toward lower rpm to reduce friction losses and improve gas mileage.
I use 4500-6000 rpm on my mt07 for daily use, but I always felt that when I go for faster rides (+6500) when I go home the bike feels smoother, sounds better and even feels more powerful in lows than when I only go for mid rpms. Makes sense when you look at it like this. Good video!
the 4500-6000 rpm is way better for you for just normal riding. the reason it feels better att 6500+ is because that's where most of your power kicks in. you don't need all that power when you are just cruising all you are doing with that high RPM is wasting fuel and premature wear on parts. you want to have as low RPM as your bike can comfortably handle without struggling. my FZ6n is in 6th gear already by 60km/h because it revs to 14k so att 2500-4000rpm the speed is so low that the engine don't need to be in a high powerband to manage it.
@@savagememes873 After reading your comment, especially the "it feels better at 6500+" part, I had an epiphany. The MT-07's max torque is at 6.5k RPM, making all the "X HP at X RPM" sort of stuff finally make sense to my knucklehead. Thank you my brother! So my question to you is (or to anyone who is willing to answer), Is the optimal RPM range for the MT-07, with its 73.7 hp power at 10,000 rpm and 67 Nm torque at 6,500 rpm, between 6,500 and 10,000 rpm? Is that what people call bandwidth? Thank you in advance!
As a 50 year rider I think I've gained a sense of when the engine is happy and I try to keep it in that range. Low load, lower engine speeds. Higher load higher engine speeds. If you know how to listen the engine will speak to you.
I started out on a 250 and the first time I rode 2 up, I immediately understood what you're saying. I wasn't able to rely on the tachometer as much as listening and feeling once the load was increased.
@JoshNewby84 Easy... keep your 1st or 2nd gear on flat and just rev it all the way.... Your engine will have no load (almost) and you revving it to the red line.... If this isn't enough, go downhill first gear full throttle.... Now, you do have situations when you ride 1st at full throttle.... steep climb, sand dunes, passenger, ton of luggage etc....
When I was a kid my father would occasionally take his father’s bike out for a run at high rpm’s. To blow the “cob webs” out. Never new what he actually meant. Now as a 49 year old I’ve been doing the same with his old bikes as I now know it’s for the same reasons as described here. Great video. 👍😎
It doesn't even make sense though. Engineers deal with real world problems while physics is much more theoretical. Isn't actually solving real world problem the grown up thing to do? I think we can all agree the entire argument is philosophical, so we should leave it to the manchildren (menchildren?) in that profession ;)
I used to work for a Porsche dealer and the ex demos that were driven hard from the start very rarely came back with engine problems but the cars that were bought new and only driven carefully on Sundays were quite often troublesome !
The problem I have with running higher revs is keeping the bike with reasonable speed limits. I could run freeway speeds in 3rd and keep the revs up… but while I did pay for the whole tachometer, I also paid for the whole transmission.
I had that song going through my head as I crept through slow traffic last Sunday in several NH and VT small town Main streets! "Damn this traffic jam!"
Me: ‘But Officer, the motorcycle guru Fortnine said that I had to ride the tits off it.’ Cop: ‘Actually he said to rev the tits off it. And he didn’t mean do it in 6th gear.’
might sound a bit silly, but i used to maintain alot of small moped/scooters. all the 4 stroke slow scooters where ALWAYS fouled up, and usually had bigger failures, including main bearing wear. Same with the restricted 2 stroke engines. now the fun part was the high RPM un-restricted 2 strokes. whenever i took those apart, i saw nice shiny metallic pistons, cilinder walls, a afree rotating crank. no fouling at all! even the exhaust looked ''relatively'' clean on the inside. im not saying you must always ride an engine to the max... but even in a car, if you have the chance, every once in a while, just let it rev (when its warm) out a bit, use the engine in its entire capacity to burn away the built up carbon... you wont notice the extra power you get back, but the engine surely appreciates a little love from time to time... its like letting your dog from the leash, to run around in a park... instead of lugging along next to you... where is that dog happier?
Really good analogy sir. I own a old yamaha scooter with 135.000 km on it, and the engine still purr like kitten. Sometimes i do 'italian tune up' right before oil changing and afterwards.
Thats the advantage of living in Germany, I just go on the Autobahn every few months and go full speed for a bit, kept the DPF in my car and the pistons in my bike clean
It applies to many cars as well. I remember Scotty from Haltech mentioned that high load and low RPM is where your connecting rods are under the most stress, especially on a turbo engine. Obviously tons of high RPM for prolonged periods may wear out piston rings and cylinders sooner, but I can attest that many cars NEED to see high RPM driving at least occasionally in order to run properly.
Not only do the higher revs help clean the plugs and injectors and such, catalytic converters love it. I don't know about other platforms but a stock S550 Mustang GT has a very distinctive smell when the cats get hot. I'm usually pretty easy on mine, but I make sure to get them good and hot once a month or so; that equates to holding a few gears at low throttle for a few seconds, 35-4500 rpm or so, or a quick run to redline in at least one gear. Smells kinds sulfur-ey, like spent fireworks.
I drive an older car, but when I try out newer cars, they seem to run at unnaturally low RPMS. I know they are trying to be fuel efficient I guess, but it just feels wrong and it seems like the auto transmissions are set to shift wayyy too early. It just can't be good for those small turbos long term.
Newer cars will burn off deposits in the cat by injecting fuel into the cylinder during the exhaust phase (assuming the cat is already warm enough). It then travels down to the cat where it burns, changing all the nasty stuff in there into what is considered "clean". Use to be it'd catch all the large particulates and burn them to smaller ones. PM10 bad, burn them to
Could you explain that? As far as I can reason a lower rpm would result in a lower boost pressure too because the turbo wouldn't be spinning as quickly?
Great info! I ride a Kawasaki 900 Classic LT and so many owners swap out the pulleys and install taller rear tires to reduce RPMs. Your video has slammed the door on that idea for me. Thank you.
I love this explanation, it makes a lot of sense. The salesman at Ducati Indianapolis told me before a test ride, "These bikes (Multistrada 1200) like to run at 3,000-plus RPM, they're not happy just pooping around at 2,000.' He was so right. Redline on that big L-twin is 10,500, and it loves to scream. Heck yes, I bought the bike!
No modern engine likes to be run under 3k RPM, Ducati or not. Unless you're talking about Harleys with their undersquare diesel tractor ancient engine design.
My Kawasaki C-14 is cruising at 80 MPH at under 4000 rpm. 100 MPH Is soon to follow. I love all the physics but there are so many qualifications. 100 mph in 2nd Gear? Absolutely. You need huge Balls and lots of skill to wrong out Any hyper bike. Good luck 😅
@@sv650nyc7 of course they do.... and if you include car engines then they specially do as the efficient shift point for most cars is att 2000rpm. (before you argue i studied fuel economy and shit in school because it was part of our truck driving training) and my fz6n is so low geared that it's happy att 2500rpm. it's not about RPM but about having the power to efficiently run
@rampage3337 Fuel consumption & thermal efficiency generally live at opposite ends of the spectrum. Meaning: What you're engine likes & operates best at is usually not the same condition that nets highest MPG
A few years ago I was considering buying a small displacement motorcycle like maybe an R3 or an old Ninja 250. I was trying to watch some reviews from RUclipsrs, and they would always shift the bike at around half the RPM that it needs to reach peak horsepower, and then complain that the bike was underpowered.
I love my Suzuki GSF 400, it's powerful enough to be fun, you can rev it to redline for a few gears until the speedlimit, it's light enough for the city, it's just not comfortable over like 120 km/h which is maybe a good thing. I wanted something bigger but got too attached to this one, and I can't justify owning two bikes at once. I still sometimes get a feeling like I want something more. Anyone with similar experiences?
Your explanation is true only in the hypothesis that we always introduce the same amount of fuel for each revolution of the engine. This is not the real case scenario. Low rpm means high internal stress only if you are at full throttle, filling the combustion chamber with more fuel than it can handle. It's hard for your feet to push the bike pedals if you're uphill and pushing hard, but if you're cruising calmly there's no fatigue at low rpm. So, avoid going full throttle at low revs when accelerating, use higher revs instead but the general law is: give as little throttle as possible using the right gear and your engine will thank you.
I mean, your advice makes perfect sense from a technical point of view, but giving as little throttle as possible also kind of defeats the whole point of having a motorcycle.
I think this makes more sense. I personally ride by sound. If the engine sounds like it's stressed, the rpm is too high. If it sounds too choppy, the rpm is too slow. His bicycle analogy didn't sit well with me, but I think you nailed it completely. The whole point of low gearing on a bicycle is that it makes riding _easier_ because it requires less work, work defined by torque applied by your feet over rotations. The whole notion of work isn't force (how hard you push) or torque (how hard you pedal). It's force over distance, or torque over rotation. Who cares if you're applied 50 Joules of torque. You gotta tell me if it's 50 Joules of torque over 1 degree or 50 Joules of torque over 10 rotations. It really makes a difference.
I was about to say exactly this... Avoid sharp throttling from low RPM. Avoid throttling uphill in high gears. If you throttle up and there's no immediate power response from your bike, that's a big tell you're not using it correctly and you should downshift. Also,just because you're in low RPM range, doesn't necessarily mean you're in pre-detonation range, fuel intakes DEPENDS on throttle input, and as long as your throttle input is coherent with your current RPM, low gear trades range of travel (of pistons) for torque, and that ratio varies from engine to engine, depending on the engine's design characteristics aswell as the gearbox ratio, that's why engines have WIDE VARYING dyno graphs. Undersquare and oversquare bores will exhibit different toque and hp characteristics at the same RPM so there's no silver bullet. Carbon deposits on the other hand have no solution other than burning it off as stated, although the RPM needed for reaching the operating temperature WILL VARY from engine to engine. I'd recommend checking your own bike's service manual and looking for the alternator capacity. It'll give you a good estimate for kW/RPM. My CBX250 gets 0,205kW/5000RPM, and that's the RPM I aim for when I'm cruising. A barroque dianostics for how you're running your bike would be -Low charge battery: You are running it like a diesel truck and should run it at a high rpm -You're on a second mortgage to pay for fuel and your neighboors hate you: You're revving it too high -Weird vibrations: You're running it wrong
I remember hearing never to lug an engine, and it made enough sense when the bike sounded like it was struggling, but now I know the science behind it.
@@tomast9034 and? the 4cyl engine of my car does shake a lot when driving low rpm. but doesnt mean it will break that way. i am driving the same car 21 years now and will do so another 21 years. full throttle 900rpm? no problem, since it has an injector, not a carburettor setup. first engine, never opened up, even the waterpump is way older then 21 years. from time to time i go to the racetrack to have some fun.
My motorcycle engine will willingly roll on from 2000rpm in top gear without complaint but it is a long stroke low rpm engine and designed for that kind of riding. (I'm talking roll on and not fast hard full throttle). Try that on something like an R6 and see what happens. 7000rpm on an R6 is just getting into the beginning of the power band. Oh! My motorcycle is not a Harley.
As used to be stated in Yamaha owner’s manuals many decades ago, “The maximum cruising speed is determined by 3/4 throttle or 3/4 of redline, whichever comes first.” I always kept this in mind, with both 2-strokes and 4-strokes, and I was rewarded with clean-running and high-performing engines with long service lives. If that cruising speed is not high enough, get a bigger bike. For this reason, I went from 180 cc to 350 cc to 400 cc to 750 cc, and finally to 1000 cc. A 750 sport bike is fast enough for most riders, so you only need a 1000 if your friend has one, in which case you definitely need that 1000. For other people, a 350 or 400 is fast enough, unless they ride on major highways with a passenger, especially in hilly or mountainous areas, in which case a 600 or 750 may be needed. You decide, based on your needs. And don’t lug your engine! Even Harleys can be lugged, but in their case, the lowest safe rpm is quite a bit lower, as low as 2500-3000 rpm, while redline may be under 5-6000 rpm, indicating that contrary to some opinions, they do not have a wide range of usable rpm, unlike some high-revving brands that may be happy between 5000 and 10,000 rpm.
My Yamaha FZR400 redlined at 14k, which means cruise is at 10,500. Yeah it matches quite well, FZR400eds barely run below 4k, and comes alive at 9,500. Definitely not happy at 5k but somewhat driveable, it just loves being above 9,500. Something very important from Yamaha manuals; The idle rpm, never go below! Lotsa gyus think a low idle sounds cool but thats only because they havent experienced a high speed stall with a 4 cyl performance bike, and stall they will if the idle is too low, plus harder to start.
@@pflaffik A too-low idle sounds cool? That’s a new one on me. A lower than normal idle speed results in lower-than-normal oil pressure, in a situation when certain internal forces are relatively high, causing unnecessary wear. Almost forgot: that’s the recommended MAX cruising speed, not the mandatory cruising speed. Also, to quote the Yamaha owner’s manual again: “..., bearing in mind local highway laws.” If a cop stops you for speeding, telling him that you weren’t exceeding the factory recommended maximum cruising speed won’t impress him. He may even think you’re a smartass, which does not help at all.
Indeed a Harley has only a usable rpm from 2000 to 3500. Under 2000 it kicks like a mule. Above 3500 you can visit the dentist 4 times in a year. But the girls like the vibrations above 3500……. My 1984 Honda is happy between 1500 and 10000. Really happy between 6 and 10000
"You paid for the whole tachometer, so use the whole tachometer" Simply brilliant. The outdoor shots are right in my backyard in and around Vancouver for the most part and it's nice to see the local scenery.
0:22 it's really cool how you can see drag in action. Making a low pressure zone behind Ryan, so the smoke from the exhaust can collect back there as it get pulled up in the swirling air currents.
I have been enjoying my single cylinder long stroke bike on slow speeds and really low RPMs, now I realize why the spark plug failed so early and the ignition mistimed all within the first 3000 kms! Thanks for clarifying this - low RPM is not always being good to your bike. Cheers!
I have the same style engine, this vid may not suit, as it doesn't account for a heavier piston travelling at Higher speeds and distance, at the same revs as a revvy bike! The reciprocating/ off-balance forces / frictions will become way higher! Just get a hotter plug.
@@valve0radio This vid also suits that kind of engine. I have a XT600Z and those engines suffer from wearing/breaking big ends if you keep on hammering them at low RPM. And if you ride them in fifth gear at low RPM the gear get's too little oil (for the earlier engines atleast) and the fifth gear will wear.
I'm a new motorcycle owner and the reason I was confident enough to get into motorcycles. It's because of this man here. I appreciate every video you've put out, especially the one on how to break in an engine thank you and keep doing what you're doing!!
Only about half the information he puts out is actually good. I'm never going to forget his video on cornering when he says counterbalancing and better than having your body on the inside of the turn.
@@ayyblyat9450 Right, he did recently make a video about police training where he now corrects himself and admits he was wrong at least. Maybe this video is more applicable to 2-strokes and high revving sport bikes? But he does assume beginners will have that foresight :/
After watching your video, I changed my mindset. My Hayabusa is plenty happy and powerful enough to hum along at 2-3k RPM and still be able to accelerate at will. Now I did my highway commute in 2nd gear to keep RPM at 8k. Could go higher RPM but then I'd lose my license. Conclusion: I can never shift above 2nd on this bike.
En mi parecer. No le hagas caso a estos video porque dejan mucha cosas de lado. 8k rpm para esa moto es una brutalidad. La vas a fundir porque el aceite no va ser capaz de lubricar. Ve la curva de aceleración de tu moto y allli tendrás un referencia. Para evitar la detonación que dice el vídeo, usa buenos combustibles y ponle según dice el manual respetando la relación de compresión. Pero si en alguna ocasión no encuentras el combustible que indica el manual, ponle uno más bajo, no va a afectar el motor por un corto periodo. Saludos desde Chile.
I'd say that the healthiest would be to adjust your driving style once in a while: if you ride calmly most of the time, rev it once in a while. If you drive the bajeezus out of it mostly, give it a rest and do some relaxed cruising for a bit. Your engine will love it.
🤓lmao engines don't need a "rest". You could easily have an engine running 15,000rpm for a week straight only turning it off for oil changes. I gotta say car/bike culture brings together the stupidest people, everybody and their mother thinks that ONLY THEY know how to take care of an engine. God I hate people on the Internet
@@avec-zam7301 It doesn't need rest, it needs a balance in usage. This doesn't apply to all mechanical devices obviously but it does apply to most internal combustion engines.
My God, the writing, delivery, and presentation are off the charts. This channel has no right to have this level of production quality, but here we are. Way to bring shame to much bigger outfits. Well done team.
Presentation top notch. Yet usable information is below par. He didnt show or tell the negatives of constant high reving. And which negative weighes more when you compare them.
I just sold my VStrom 1000 that I had for five years. Rode the damn thing from New York all the way to Ushuaia - 65,000 miles and change. Took me a full year on the road to finally realize the thing was happiest and ran smoothest somewhere in the 4000 to 6000 RMP range.
As a mechanic, trust your oil system. Let it warm up before sending high rpms then let the engine go. Of course different engines have their happy zones but so few are content under 3k for long periods of time.
Also another reminder why most motorcycles have fuel injection, but none whatsoever have Direct-Injection. Just like F1 cars don't either. Because they're high-speed engines(crank speed that is) and modern high pressure injectors just can't keep up adequately. Not because it's not physically possible, but because paying ~$7-500 per injector and ~$1000-500 for high-pressure fuel pumps every couple thousand miles(if even that) isn't desirable to anyone.
@@rogerpratchet cars are very different than motorcycles. Cars are often optimized for low rpm. My jeep sits at 1500 at 70mph in 8th gear just fine. I wouldn't do the same on a bike.
@@BlondeWick Actually the reason why F1 cars didn't use DI pre 2014 was because it was against F1 regulations, since March 2014 all of them can and do use direct injection. The only downside to DI is that the fuel doesn't clean the back of the valves and can result in carbon build up, some modern cars now have an additional injector before the manifold to overcome this problem.
Have you ever seen any Downhill clips? Because they will either get you onto MTB or completely GUARANTEE that you will never get on a bicicle in a mountain XD
@@TrueHelpTV as a cyclist myself, i have to agree. What they did in my country is BULLSHIT, straight up. Car lanes on most city sections are limited to 30Km/h or around 20mph because many lanes are ment to be shared with bikes, but bikes are actually not suposed to surpass 25Km/h by regulation (yes, you can get a speeding ticket on a bycicle here, but it's not really enforced since it's stupid AF). In the end most people drive at whatever speed they want and it's not hard to find an average of one or two assholes each 30 mins in the road. To top it off, there have been added bike paths specifically for bicicles where pedestrians just don't give a shit they're in the way, to the point where they don't even look to cross and get shocked when a bike is in the bike path, WHO WOULD'VE KNOWN?! Also, don't you DARE get on the sidewalk because then you will have to deal with dissrespectfull assholes who don't care how much space you're leaving, if you have a legit reason to be there or how carefull you're being, they're offended about your existence and will let you know either with a respectfull tone or straight up behave like an upset toddler. I literally have been told anything you can and can't imagine with levels of bullshittery that are injustifiable from any half sentient being, like that i cannot go in the road with a bycicle after someone that wasn't payng attention complained that he had to brake because i was there, don't mind the fking yield sing... Sorry for the rant, but i'm really done with this and the comment just went out of control. Cycling is a great sport as long as you don't have to ride in cities, sadly i just can't go to many trails, much less often. I cannot talk about it without ranting because of how absolutely done i am about this stuff, it kinda went off the rails but i think i made my point, traffic flow matters and bicicles unless electric do not belong in the road with cars imo.
All of this depends on how the engine was designed and by whom. I’ve been riding since 1972 and I grew up on Triumphs. My first bike was a 1969 Triumph Trident 750 triple, which, although being a pushrod engine, could be revved to 11500rpm without throwing pushrods. Les Williams, the factory race rider said they would go higher, but that’s where he put the redline. This particular engine was designed with higher revs in mind, but it would pootle along quite happily at anywhere between 1500 to 5000rpm. It was quite different from the parrallel twin Bonnevilles that I rode later, which had 360 degree crankshafts and would rev to 7200rpm max. They produced bags of low down torque, which would allow you to chug along in top gear at 3000rpm, but that would produce far too much lowdown vibration and would thrash out the crankshaft bearings and big end bearing shells in no time. The shocks would be sent through the drivetrain as well, with the primary transmission chain and clutch (not to mention the gearbox and final drive chain and rear sprocket) all suffering as a result. The sweet spot for a Triumph Bonneville was around 4,000-5,000rpm. The BSA’s and Nortons weren’t much different. Hardly any of those bikes needed to be revving any higher and they just weren’t physicaly capable of doing much over the low 7’s, RPM-wise. The gearing on the Bonnevilles was such that at the 7,200rpm redline, the bike was doing 120mph and that is quite fast enough, thank you very much. I was clocked by a Police radar at 131mph on my Trident, but the guy turned out to be the father of a friend of mine and let me go with a stern lecture. Seeing as the few cars out on the Freeway had been doing around the limit of 60mph, to me they appeared to be reversing towards me at 70mph and that was scary enough that I never wanted to experience that again. About this high revs/low revs business, the famed Vincent Black Shadow V-Twins were designed to be travelling at well over 130mph at 6,100rpm in top gear, so again, no need for anything more. The fact that they too ran plain white metal big end bearings meant that revs too much higher than the mid 6,000’s was not an engine friendly idea anyway. In my experience, you can go quite fast enough to get you into serious trouble on many motorcycles without having to go higher than 7k rpm. I chuckle at Harley riders (of which I am one too, so I’m allowed) who chug along at 30mph in top gear, with the revs just over idle speed. Yes, they will do it and it sounds cool, but the bottom ends are not really designed to take such treatment for extended periods of time, but they are also not really designed to rev to the skies either. They aren’t designed that way. To me, the whole traction control on a motorbike thing is like driving a car with an automatic transmission; if you can’t drive a stick-shift, you cain’t drive. Same goies for Motorcyles with traction control. If you can’t ride without that stuff, you can’t really ride. SOme computer is doing that for you and I don’t like any piece of technology deciding things for me. Just look at the ‘success’ of the Tesla auto-pilot feature and how many deaths that has caused. Now, I’m not totally against traction-control on a Bike in certain situations, BUT I AM against people becoming too reliant on the technology to keep them out of trouble, because they lose the ‘feel’ of a motorcycle’s tyres on the road and if the system breaks (please don’t tell me computers don't break, that’s like saying politicians don't lie) then you will be unable to ‘feel’ when those tryes are getting near the limit of their sticking ability. Like someone here said, you need to be able to ‘listen’ to your bike and it will treat you right.
Fifty years later, I finally understand this basic and important fact of life. Thank you sir. I say fifty years because as a cycling teenager, I preferred lower gears, even up-hill - suits my muscle type evidently (ie, low down torque like an under-square engine). I was also constantly replacing the kota pins in the pedal cranks. Now, at last, I see that there was a connection. (Footnote: I solved my problem when friend showed me how to arc weld!)
it's a balance you need to find because, while higher gears are tougher on the pedal side of things, lower gears put stronger forces onto the wheel side, which can lead to equally catastrophic failure. like one time i was going up hill and i shifted down and stood up, i put so much force on the rear wheel that the inside of the wheel was turning, while the outside was not, completely scrunched up the wheel like that and bent the frame in the process, that bike was fubar after that.
This is a real issue in trials. Trials engines are tuned for massive torque and spend much of their time chugging around in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear at relatively low rpm. If you watch experienced riders you'll often see them hold the bike at full throttle with the clutch engaged for several seconds before entering a section, especially if the section involves big splats over rocks or similar. A veteran trials rider once told me that the "cleanest" his bikes ever run is after an event such as the SSDT where travelling between sections requires a lot of road miles using high gears and high rpm. So another vote for the "Italian tune-up" I guess :)
Once in a while we go on a trail ride on our trials bikes. Inevitably there are plumes of smoke coming out our exhausts as the unburned carbon/oil deposits from low speed riding burn off. In fact sometimes the exhaust can catch on fire and keep burning/smoking after shutting the engine off. Another vote for periodically revving the tits off the bike. Though I think Engineering Explained has a video debunking the Italian Tuneup in modern cars.
One more good reason to not lug at really low RPM: lower oil pressure. Lugging at low revs means all that force on the piston is being transferred down the rod and through the big end bearing - but it _should_ be pressing against that thin film of oil that prevents the rod bearing from actually touching the crankshaft. Lower revs, and thus lower oil pressure, means more chance of that oily film being pushed out of the way when that piston fires.
@@k9turrentindeed, this is because of the large operating range of the pump requiring variable output or extremely robust design. Hard to make a pump that works well at both 2k and 16k rpm.
You will still have sufficient oil pressure and flow at low rpm. If you didn't, your engine would be highly unreliable. At higher rpm, large volumes of oil will go through the bypass valve and won't even circulate through the engine; it'll just be dumped right back in the the sump. This is by design, to avoid overpressure of the oiling system.
I guess this is why all of my cars and bikes run like a dream, even though some of them have long since passed the 30 year mark. I meticulously maintain all of them but I also do a fair bit of, lets call it "spirited riding/driving" with them. And I used a borescope on all of them, the inside of their engines looks nice and clean with only very little carbon buildup.
@@FortNine If I could add a wee notice too LOL - Holding up a valve and piston while standing over your two-stroke could mislead some greener bikies... LOL
I had an old lady neighbor who only had one car that she bought brand new in the 70s, and when it was time to get a new car, she actually told the salesman to remove the airbags and sunroof because her old car didn't have them and she didn't want to pay for them.
Yep, thanks for the advise. Lately I’ve been pushing my old KLR650 single cylinder engine into a highrer RPM range, and it’s doing very well. The KLR will burn some oil at these higher RPMs, but all you have to do is check the oil level frequently, and top up as necessary. Happy Trails
Also don't forget that 3500rpm-4500 is mid range for our (drive an Xt600) bikes. While those numbers are just Low-Rpm for something like an R6. The Piston displacement also means a lot!
I just bought an xsr900 (my dream bike) so I've been putting a lot of thought on how I need to ride it for "longevity". This video came right on time 😁
I have 2005 GSXR-1000 I commute 60 miles round trip on daily. Bought it new and immediately converted into a race bike. Modded, tuned and aggressively geared. Had about 3K hard miles on it when I retired it and turned it into a streeter. While it spent those first 3K miles banging up against the rev limiter constantly, it's gone another 90K miles of MOSTLY freeway miles and in 6th gear at around 6,000 RPMs. No rebuilds, I think only one valve adjustment, clutch swap, and little things here and there but the thing still runs like a charm. So for me at least, 6K RPMs in 6th gear at 80 MPH freeway is the sweet spot.
for those few of us that don't have traction control, using higher revs in a corner is definitely a healthier proposition. What you don't want is to be just below the peak torque coming out of a bend, because if you lose traction, the rear will spin up real fast, as it is then right in the meat of the torque curve. what you want is to be on the down slope of the torque curve (i.e. for most of us above 8000rpm), so if it starts to spin up, there is less torque available and you have more of a chance of catching it by feathering the throttle SLIGHTLY. Shutting the throttle to zero (=panic reaction) will probably have you out of the saddle anyway, it's something you have to train in. and all the stuff in the video about preserving the oil film, avoiding detonation etc. is spot on.
Got to be really careful with engine breaking at high rpm round a corner though. Easing off the throttle too quickly can have a "handbrake turn" effect.
or you can get an engine that has instances where no cylinder is firing. which is pretty much every four stroke engine with fewer than four cylinders (or one cylinder two stroke), crossplain engines and especially big bang engines.
However in cases of rain and compromised traction. It is better to start/ enter the corner at a lower rpm ( and typically higher gear) and use the torwue of the engine to pull the vehicle through.
As an added bonus riding at speed in higher revs provides better engine breaking, after riding for 20 years I did my first track day, the single best take away was that I'd been riding for 20 years mostly one gear too high. I think it came from the mindset of wanting to "protect" the engine. I should have been thinking more about protecting me, and that meant drop it down a cog in almost every scenario.
A true motorcyclist will ride ALL bikes. It doesn’t matter what displacement, and they’ll never make fun of anyone else for what they ride. Thanks Ryan. 👍
Absolutely agree. I've owned bikes from 250 cc on up to 1500 cc -- every single one of them was an absolute blast to ride. And riders are riders -- I don't care if you're on a "step-through", you're still a rider.
When I got my motorbike license, my practical lessons were all on a Yamaha MT-07. The instructor told me, when it's safe aka when the road is clear and conditions are good, I can shift down and let the engine rip for a little bit under acceleration. And having driven sports cars before, I felt like the 73 or so hp of the MT-07 is plenty fast for the road. After getting my license I bought an SV650 as my first bike which, thanks to an aftermarket exhaust, makes 76hp. I love it, and like the MT-07, I think this is all the power you need on the road. But at work, a lot of my colleagues also ride motorbikes and they're all laughing and calling this a "beginner bike" and they all keep talking about how one of them bought a Super Duke, the other a Kawasaki H2, the other a Ducati Streetfighter V4 etc. None of them regularly ride on a track, by the way. They say these "small bikes" like the SV650 don't have any grunt, so they feel like they need those big engines, and I never understood their point. Now I know why. They're too lazy to shift down a gear or two and wind the engine out in 2nd or 3rd gear. Because once you do that, even with an SV650, you're flying past other traffic.
Ryan your information is correct, well done on the way you have relayed this. I’m an old dude that reviews motorcycles on my channel down in Aus, I have as you’d imagine had many many over the years. One of the things I’ve learnt over this time is baby them and they will eventually give problems as you describe in your video, I’m not saying constantly thrash the hell out of them but let these modern day engines do what they were designed to do. I come from the 2 stroke era and this was especially important, you make very good videos-keep it up mate.👍
I disagree, my '99 CB500 and '06 900 Hornet both have gone round the clock [and the 500 into the side of a car] with no problems as described. Running sub 60% of the red line, and mostly sub 40% has seen the engines perfectly sound, and I have never needed a shim in either.
Absolutely! I grew up riding two stroke dirt bikes and family members would always yell at me to quit riding it easy or I’m going to foul the plugs. The one time I had to pull the plugs and clean them out on the trail was my lesson learned to quit fouling the plugs 😂
Mr. FortNine, I attended a diesel tech school in PA in 1984. (Yes, I'm that old damnit) Then 5 years in the US Army working on EVERYTHING they had with a piston, valves, cranks and cams. You are spot on with your RPM analysis. Worst thing you can do is lug a diesel. They live to work. The same goes for my KTM 690 Enduro. The more I roll into that throttle, the happier we both are! Keep up the good work man. Love your channel.
"As many horses as a six pack of Ikea meat balls" - Ryan just gets better and better. His work should be on the curriculum of all mechanical engineering courses. Thanks for making my ribs ache.
Awesome. This reminds me of the Ford vs Ferrari scene where Bale's character (Ken Miles) says to the customer "too much fuel not enough spark" "try to change it up at 5000 RPM not 2.”! Again, well done as always!
One of my favourite lines, swiftly followed by ‘No, but this isn’t really your car. Your car is more of a Plymouth or a Studebaker’. As Brit I have no idea what either of those cars are, but the meaning was plain
Theres been numerous studies, I think Engineering Explained has a good video about the carbonization. Basically if your engine is water cooled, you reliably cannot alter the cylinder temperatures to actually get high enough temperatures to start burning carbon off. On some old air cooled motorbikes, yes italian tune ups might work. But modern water cooled bikes, it doesnt matter what rpm you use. Ofcourse dont try to run redline or idle speeds as you are cruising around. But, if you have some intake/engine/exhaust mods to your bike, or some EGR on your exhaust, giving full beans from time to time will clear out carbon from the exhaust and EGR systems. But again, you dont need to be at high revs the whole time, only occasionally.
Wilhelm Scream @ 4:21 had me bustin' a gut. Classic! Your videos are full of witticisms that an engineer just cannot compute. I think I'll watch again.
The first time I read about "lugging" an engine was in "How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive" by John Muir. Very bad for air cooled VWs too. Thanks Ryan for reminding me to wind out my bikes too!
This is especially important on my old '74 CB550. I need to ride that bike around 4-5k RPM minimum, otherwise the battery won't even charge. The old Honda CBs would also foul plugs if you let them idle too much due to running rich on the low end.
Every one who has ever met an engineer expected the salary comments the second he said it. Ironic considered with nearly 2m subs Ryan is absolutely blowing whatever your salary is out of the water. @@GalamatiasOne
I am absolutely loving that you're using the Silverwing cluster for your title shot. My father and I each have one, and they are easily our favourite bikes.
Greetings from Japan. I lived in Vancouver (Burnaby actually) for 7 years (2000~2007). I rode a Honda CB250 then a Ducati Pantah 600 when I was very young; looking to get back on two wheels when my wife will allow it. Apart from the (mostly excellent) technical tips, the gift of the gab is what gets me coming back for more; it's like a strange marriage between 'Moto Control' and 'Stephen Fry'. But the kicker is, that is sooo B.C. Love ya Guy.
I learned (from the Internet, per usual) a few years ago that rotary engines in cars need to be revved high regularly for this exact reason. Seems like it is especially true and effective for 2 stroke engines.
Its literally how dpf filter works on diesel powered cars. Literally uses exhaust heat and sometimes a lil diesel to burn off soot deposits. SO dpf regen is literally burning off soot and the engine needs to rev high for a few minutes for this to work and driving a dpf fitted diesel car all day long in traffic at low rpm can actually clog up ur dpf filter
My all time favourite motorcycle RUclips channel. I have been riding motorcycles since 1966 and I am still learning. I do however long for the days of the screaming two strokes, thrashing them all week, fixing them all weekend.
Nice inverted sparkplug in your animation, Ryan. Based upon the ignition, a terminal nut doesn't even require a spark gap. Now, that's physics at its finest...
@@IzharJumadi Thanks! Proudly showed your comment to my wife. Her dry retort was, "Always knew you were the sharpest butter knife in the silver set!"🤣🤣🤣
This was VERY informative. I've telling customers this at my shop for years and I get a lot of pushback. We get so many repair jobs due to these bad riding habits. Good stuff.
He's not completely wrong, but his examples are all wrong. Like when he used the bicycle; its not harder on the parts to use lower RPM, it's harder on you. Your a replacement for gasoline, not necessarily an engine component. So by that example he means your harder on gasoline which is fine by me, I guess it means your getting the most bang for your buck.
@@Damitsall Nothing wrong with his bike example. If you want to reach equal speed with lower RPM you need more torque to compensate. More torque means higher forces. I can break off the pedals or snap the chain of my bike if I want to at low speed in high gear. Impossbile to do at high RPM. And even our muscles have a power/rpm or rather a force/velocity curve so the higher the contraction velocity the lower the amount of force they can deliver.
As an Owner of a '16 Honda CRF250L, I have to agree. Not only was my engine directly taken from the CBR250R(high strung sportbike) but ever since realizing how easy ripping the engine apart can be changing my clutch, I've been beating the crap out of the bike and it's actually happier at highway speeds. Stock everything except for removing judder spring and a drilled out airbox (which w/o an EJK/Fuel Controller means the bike wants to GO, otherwise the ECU is too busy trying to adjust itself) so aside from loss of fuel economy (~67 mpg vs ~75 mpg) it's hands down been eye opening. When I realized that even now I'm rarely hitting the rev limiter when trying to, I stopped worrying and started to embrace the weird LRP for what it was, and enjoying the sound of the factory muffler minus the spark arrestor. The 2-1-3 layout of the exhaust valves-header-baffles in the factory setup is actually kind of a brilliant sound. Makes me want to learn to weld so even if I ever switch the parts out I can mimic the harmonics. Or just fabricate a Y-pipe to run twin mufflers like the R models did back then, for the unique look rather than performance. 2016 was the last model year before Honda entered it's current "no fun allowed" era (i.e. last year the VFR800/Interceptor was produced was 2016)😐
I recently went on a UK 'advanced' rider training course run by Derbyshire Police. We had 4 instructors who were all Police Motorcycle instructors too. They are quick (bloody quick), smooth and extremely good riders. One turned up on a Police BMW f650 GS. The other instructors said he rarely used any gear higher than 3rd, and always got whoever he was chasing. Okay, Derbyshire is perfect bike riding countryside but he kept his engine singing all the way through the day.
Interesting topic. It seems like revving an engine consistently for long periods of time would put more stress on the engine and lead to a shorter life. The closer you get to redline the closer engine components are to their maximum stress limit. It does make sense that revving it occasionally could be beneficial though.
components have a safety factor redlining is not the best in my opinion but he is right about the high RPMs that remove the carbon deposites and keep the valves from failing
As he said, moto engines are designed to go fast. High speed in a lower gear unloads the force that lugging the engine would put on just about every component inside it, from the piston top and cylinder wall through to the gearbox and final drive, especially in a shaft drive. Witness the bicycle analogy. Higher RPMs in a lower gear takes them further from their stress limit rather than closer to it. Ride On!
@@takis8vasI believe he is right rpm is better than lugging. Seen it with the little old lady car every one wants to find. Excellent condition low miles,till a normal person starts driving it NOT lugging around like an old lady,all of a sudden 40k motor is a piece of crap cuz it had never been used as intended. Rpm does not hurt a motor. Lugging does
He just explained that there is more cylinder pressure at low rpm. That’s where the stress comes from not rpm. Motors are designed to run thru their full cycle. Ford coyote can bang the limiter all day and last forever at over 7k rpm and boosted to 600hp. Have one I drag race,for 6 years now. Not scared
OMG finally a video that supports what I have promoted for the past 52 years riding Harley-Davidson, don't lug your engines! FortNine however failed to mention the 'personal' safety aspect - that is, if you are lugging your engine you are also putting yourself in danger on the road. Finding the sweet-spot is where you have ample torque to get yourself out of danger without having to drop a gear! On my Harley, that sweet-spot is 3,200 rpm and that's where I keep my engine running.
True, I have now a little 390cc and has 0 torque from 0 to 5000rpm, riding at 3000rpm makes the bike do funny stuff, can't describe it but is not running smooth at all. . . I'm on my breaking kms so I can't go high rpm (is electronically limited to 7000 at the moment)
Okay first, I'm not at all a metro rider so, I can't answer your question with all honesty but, when I am riding through a speed zone of 30pmh or 50kmph then yes, I still keep my rpm at about 3,000 rpm. It has been my lifelong riding habit - I just do not like to lug my bike - it will knock the crap out of your main bearings. Harley rider for 52 years now. I hope this helps.@@user-bk8db7ud6k
And I thought this was going to be about rev balancing the voltage load of the components vs the recharge of the alternator. A lesson learned on my 2008 FZ06. Too low rpm’s didn’t let the battery recharge.
I had one, Not as easy to rev high all the time, 1st goes to almost 100km/h I recall, that little 600 goes up to 14k rpm and wakes up after 8k rpm, was quite fun, maybe not as a R6, but was enough for me.
This is good information for the uninitiated or a novice when it comes to manual transmissions. The bicycle gear ratio analogy is a great way to draw a parallel to the stresses on an engine under various load situations. Definitely going to use that analogy when I teach my son how to drive.
@fishjcb As a new rider, work your way up carefully. Focus on throttle control (your inputs) at different revs so you learn what your bike can handle. Abruptness at high RPM can be unforgiving. Be smooth.
@@jonnybrown1717 Right on. Read as much as you can to understand how the chassis behaves, under braking, throttle, cornering dynamics, and so on. Electronic aids are great but awareness is better. ✌️
@@prickly-pear true! I would also say, not buying an overpowered bike for your skill levels is a good idea. There are too many guys on Panigale V4s on trackdays that get overtaken by 300cc bikes :D
My lawnmower has a predetermined RPM zone of operation, where longevity, power and economy meet at peak torque. I learned from that and applied it to all my vehicles, but thanks for the confirmation.
Super helpful topic. I'm a new rider and I know motorcycles rev higher than something like my truck, so I ended up searching this online about a month ago to get an idea of what other riders do. It's almost as if Ryan is keeping track of my internet history. The gist I got was around 5000 - 6000 rpm when at a steady speed on a thumper.
That first part is a little bit of a misguided assumption. A 2012 Street Glide 103ci rev limiter is 5500rpm. I know you ended your statement about single cylinder bikes but regardless of what you ride, grow understanding the large range of variety when the blanket term “motorcycles” is used. Keep two down and enjoy! 👍🏼
For a 4 stroke, long-stroke thumper that is too much for general cruising. Riders on HDs (motorised bath chairs) are often between 2500-3000. Some thumpers max out at 6000, so they should cruise at no more than 4000.
@@csjrogerson2377 Mine seems to have a decently high redline. The shift indicator light comes on at 7000. It seems happy cruising around 4000 - 5000. Any less and it feels like it's lugging.
@csjrogerson2377 Thumpers (single cylinders) are pretty much always oversquare designs and not stokers. They have a balancer shaft and need to be revd a little to make some power. Of all the thumpers I owned or tried none of them liked to be lugged below 3500/4000rpm. Most are happy and make peak power between 5-7000 rpm. For exemple my little klx250s is useless below 4500 rpm but will cruise all day at 7000. My XR650L id say not good below 3500, sweet spot would be around 6000.
Tru, this is why I think cheap Chinese built motorcycles are so reliable because you basically have to run them at max RPM until they eventually die but the entire lifespan they are incredibly reliable
That's an interesting account of them, I'll bear that in mind if I get a chance with one. Thanks for sharing 👍 I've noticed the dealers sell a lot of those in the last few years (won't name names here) so something must have improved otherwise we'd see them all on the roadside 😂 And thanks to Physics Dude for another classic video
@@HeartOfLightning China has been the capital of motorcycles for ages now. They've pretty much perfected the cheap and reliable formula for bikes - even more so than Honda or Royal Enfield. They pretty much had to if they wanted to corner the market. The Southern and central world rides nothing but sturdy Chinese bikes now.
@@shadowgattler I'd say they've found the right balance of cheap and reliable. They're cheap enough that they're replaceable when corrosion starts to affect reliability. You rarely see them broken down, but you also rarely see an old one
As a general rule, ride in the highest gear that gives you the acceleration you need, and do NOT use full throttle below half redline. And yes, an occasional "Italian tuneup" is good, just don't get a speeding ticket.
At low rpm, opening the throttle beyond a certain point has no effect. That's because the flow rate is port-rpm limited instead of throttle limited. IOW, the engine can't take as much air as the throttle can allow, at low rpm (much less than half of redline; usually 1500-2000rpm at most, at which point < wide-open throttle becomes the limiter).
I have a Yamaha YXZ which is basically a bulletbike engine in a side by side. I've worked on these a lot with a past job I had and I know they like revs and that's the way you run them. People never believe me or understand why, this explains it perfectly.
I agree that lugging your engine is never good. But spinning your engine unnecessary revolutions also increase fuel consumption. That's why many modern cars recommend shifting gears very early. But if you want maximum longevity in your motorcycle it's probably a good idea to at least let it spin to high revs once in a while. A mitsubishi car I owned actually stated in the manual that running it about 10 minutes or more above 3000rpm should be done once in a while to clean out carbon deposits. But riding my MT-09 at a constant 7000 rpm (peak torque) makes it sound like an angry wasp and the sound will eat into your helment in no time. It is quite happy cruising along at 3500rpm as long as you don't lug it up a steep hill.
@@sawyersdad5292yes but older engines also have way lower compression ratios and dont knock as easy. Especially if you run them with modern fuels wich have a higher octane rating than the fuel originally intended by the manufacturer.
Well Ryan after years of watching your videos, today I finally got to ride a motorcycle for the first time with the 86 Yamaha Radian I rebuilt. Super fun! Keep up the great videos man you and your editors do awesome work. Without this channel I don't see myself ever to have gotten this interested in the hobby!
To a large degree, it depends on the design of the engine. My CB300R (CRF-based) produced it's torque and power quite high up. Being a typical modern short stroke, it loved being revved. My current Royal Enfield Classic 350 is of an old-school long stroke design. It prefers lower revs and is designed to produce the hp & torque much lower down. Neither bike appreciated being lugged (or laboured). Being of a modern design, using modern materials neither will complain if you occasionally hit the rev limiter. My Classic 350 is sans rev counter, but engine will tell you when it's unhappy.
Ya my RE INT 650 seems to be most at peace in the 3-4k range. There simply isn't much torque after that to be found so riding it any higher than 5k seems pointless.
The Classic 350 is the bike that I always rode at low rpms!! And got SO MANY compliments from strangers on the street. If only it wasn't underpowered AF, I would still have it.
Just bought 2023 CBR1000RR-R sp. it doesn’t wake up until 8500 rpms. Cruise Ca. freeways in 2nd gear. Thought I was being obnoxious, but you’ve put my mind at ease. It just sounds better up there anyways. Thanks my dude.
Disclaimer: always warm up your engine before revving the shit out of it
How long does it take to warm up the engine?
Edit: guys I like your spirit, but 67 answers to one question is more than enough. You can stop now.
@@Jehty_Probably not as long as she’d like…😏
@@Jehty_kinda depends on the bike. youd let it go through its normal warm up once cold start and ride normally for a bit to get up to optimal temp and then you can get into it. But the time frame to my knowledge is a bit different for different makes.
Yes, this is very important. It's a shame this is not included in the video.
@@goldenageofdinosaurs7192😂😂😂
It never occurred to me that low rpm means high internal stress. As someone who also cycles, the bicycle demonstration was perfect.
All depends on the situation mate. Under high loads, like climbing a hill, absolutely. Under low loads, like cruising along a flat road or slight decline with low throttle opening, lower rpm will put the engine under less stress.
It’s especially crucial in diesel engines. A diesel should never be held on low rpms as the dpf filter clogs and dual mass clutch wears. Every car and motorcycle has an optimal rpm range for travel. As the guy above me mentioned, you need to see what’s happening on the road. One thing i know is that a redline a day keeps the mechanic away.
@@LierschTate I thought that was obvious, but you're right.
To be fair, it only means high internal stress at high throttle openings. If you're just pottering alone gently, there's very little load on anything.
Low rpm is only more stress if you demanding acceleration at that low rpm... Just down shift first when you want to accelerate. The issues with piston fouling or dpf in diesel cars will be taken care of with an occasional faster drive. The rest of the time just driving at lower rpm saves overall wear and fuel and for sports bikes protects your neighbours hearing.
My dad always drove at a modest pace. He hated too much high revving. I swear he felt more empathy for lubricated rotating engine components than he ever felt for a human. However, periodically, when an open road presented itself, he would open the throttle all the way and do a series of hard accelerations to max speed until he could no longer see any carbon burning in the exhaust smoke. “Gotta clear out some carbon” and off we would go. As a kid in the early 70’s dad cleaning the carbon out of whatever classic v-8 we owned at the time was my favorite thing.
P.s. The engineer in me feels compelled to add, I agree vehemently, don’t lug your engine. However, at revs higher than those considered lugging, component temperatures aren’t proportional to rpm, they are (non-linearly) proportional to power. It’s open throttle that raises temperatures to clear carbon deposits, not necessarily high rpm.
For a given power, low rpm increases combustion chamber pressures (bad) and high rpm increases load on things like bearings and crank pins (also bad) where physics is about indisputable truths, engineering is about trade offs. So, my philosophy has always been cruise at middle range rpm’s and periodically drive the snot out of it to keep deposits from building up.
Automatic transmissions in a world absent CARB standards would be designed to do exactly that. However, in our real world they tend to bias toward lower rpm to reduce friction losses and improve gas mileage.
Grandpa....."I don't know what you did to that car, but it sure does run better"
16 year old me just ran the piss out of his 64 Ford Galaxie 😊
@@muddywater6856funny you say that. In the 80’s to 90’s this would trigger a check engine light occasionally on older peoples cars 😂
italian maintance....redline a day keeps the mechanic away 🤣
@@tomast9034 Hah, I always said a redline a day keeps the carbon at bay
I use 4500-6000 rpm on my mt07 for daily use, but I always felt that when I go for faster rides (+6500) when I go home the bike feels smoother, sounds better and even feels more powerful in lows than when I only go for mid rpms. Makes sense when you look at it like this. Good video!
Same on my Monster 696! Ill try to run It a bit more revved up from now on
same on my Monster 659. A lower gear with higher revs feels so much better.
the 4500-6000 rpm is way better for you for just normal riding. the reason it feels better att 6500+ is because that's where most of your power kicks in. you don't need all that power when you are just cruising all you are doing with that high RPM is wasting fuel and premature wear on parts. you want to have as low RPM as your bike can comfortably handle without struggling. my FZ6n is in 6th gear already by 60km/h because it revs to 14k so att 2500-4000rpm the speed is so low that the engine don't need to be in a high powerband to manage it.
Idles better after you open it up, same thing with my 02 FZS600
@@savagememes873 After reading your comment, especially the "it feels better at 6500+" part, I had an epiphany. The MT-07's max torque is at 6.5k RPM, making all the "X HP at X RPM" sort of stuff finally make sense to my knucklehead. Thank you my brother!
So my question to you is (or to anyone who is willing to answer), Is the optimal RPM range for the MT-07, with its 73.7 hp power at 10,000 rpm and 67 Nm torque at 6,500 rpm, between 6,500 and 10,000 rpm? Is that what people call bandwidth? Thank you in advance!
As a 50 year rider I think I've gained a sense of when the engine is happy and I try to keep it in that range. Low load, lower engine speeds. Higher load higher engine speeds. If you know how to listen the engine will speak to you.
I started out on a 250 and the first time I rode 2 up, I immediately understood what you're saying. I wasn't able to rely on the tachometer as much as listening and feeling once the load was increased.
Exactly.... there is no point to ride redline with no load.... Load goes up engine rpm go up.
I like to whisper sweet things back when it speaks to me.
@@justlife2129 Please explain how you could even possibly get to redline without loading the engine
@JoshNewby84 Easy... keep your 1st or 2nd gear on flat and just rev it all the way.... Your engine will have no load (almost) and you revving it to the red line.... If this isn't enough, go downhill first gear full throttle.... Now, you do have situations when you ride 1st at full throttle.... steep climb, sand dunes, passenger, ton of luggage etc....
Great line; "You paid for the whole tachometer, so use the whole tachometer." I'd buy the shirt.
I don't buy many shirts but I would buy that one.
It's a famous line from the anime Initial D 😉
Same with the street. I pay taxes on both sides of the road, quit complaining when i use both sides!
It's a commonly used Phrase in Germany, typically in the context of (the lack of) speed limits on the Autobahn.
Yes this would be a great thing to have on a T-shirt for any performance minded individual no matter what type of vehicle it is 👍👍
When I was a kid my father would occasionally take his father’s bike out for a run at high rpm’s. To blow the “cob webs” out. Never new what he actually meant. Now as a 49 year old I’ve been doing the same with his old bikes as I now know it’s for the same reasons as described here. Great video. 👍😎
I do it as well, to get as much air and fuel sucking thru the carb in hopes of keeping jets open and old fuel out of the bowl
I'm not crazy, just because it's amachine it's maintenance is similar to the human body. You don't stick to only one form of movement to maintain it.
@@qwmxUse it or lose it!
Cob webs
I don’t.
Modern oils and fuels doesn’t make it necessary anymore.
"You paid for the whole tachometer, so use the whole tachometer!" Love it.
I don't have a tachometer on my motorcycle, lol :)
sii , the engine is more helty at hi revolutions... good
@@StraightWhiteMan Came for this lol. I'm literally about to buy a bike without a tachometer... sooo I guess we just go with the vibes.
Soooo, this means I also paid for the whole speedometer, didn't I ?
Hehehe.
imma flat out the gas
Ah, yes... FortNine. The best place to go, when your bike is parked.
Well, i wouldn't be watching him if i was riding my bike as that would be dangerous you sillygoose😛
Way more comfortable indoors then out in the sun working on my bike or practicing something somewhere 😅
This should already have more likes.
Or when your crank case is cracked open
Iam watching 👀 this while riding my MT07 😂
“I studied Physics like a grown up” seriously had me rolling.
Some engineers are still trying to figure out an answer to that
I had physics in 9th grade Jr. High .. Not quite a grown up.
@@calholli Yeah it's insane how they managed to fit all of physics into one high school class.
had to rewind and watch this line twice- just awesome
It doesn't even make sense though. Engineers deal with real world problems while physics is much more theoretical. Isn't actually solving real world problem the grown up thing to do?
I think we can all agree the entire argument is philosophical, so we should leave it to the manchildren (menchildren?) in that profession ;)
I've used the "high rpm carbon burn" on numerous vehicles. I'm glad I can now use the proper terminology.
I’d hazard a guess it’s’thrape’ 😂
@@goldilocks913 fatherless comment
The proper terminology is "Italian Tuneup".
"Blow the cob webbs out" -- is a proper description
"Italian tune up", I do it constantly on my BMW and Mazda.
I used to work for a Porsche dealer and the ex demos that were driven hard from the start very rarely came back with engine problems but the cars that were bought new and only driven carefully on Sundays were quite often troublesome !
Yeah. I hear the same thing on Ford vs Ferrari movie in the ken intro scene.
The problem I have with running higher revs is keeping the bike with reasonable speed limits. I could run freeway speeds in 3rd and keep the revs up… but while I did pay for the whole tachometer, I also paid for the whole transmission.
Hence the 1972 Suzuki RV125. All eight gears, all 9000rpm, zero speeding violations. ~RF9
You don't actually have to do it, all the time..... 🥴
unlike the engine the unused gears in the tranny stay in fine working order
That's why 300 cc are the best bikes
It's ok man.. You paid for the whole speedometer too didnt you?
As James Taylor sings: "It hurts my motor to go so slow" Thanks Ryan and the production team for all the info over the years.
I had that song going through my head as I crept through slow traffic last Sunday in several NH and VT small town Main streets! "Damn this traffic jam!"
Me: ‘But Officer, the motorcycle guru Fortnine said that I had to ride the tits off it.’ Cop: ‘Actually he said to rev the tits off it. And he didn’t mean do it in 6th gear.’
That would probably happen. Especially a moto cop.
That's something i was going to comment: he said use the whole TACHOMETER not SPEEDOMETER Xd
@@Ferrari255GTO If I redline my bike in first gear and get caught, I'm getting arrested.
@@MadAlhazred That reminds of a Katana Top-Speed Video on here. It was "100...120...140...second gear, 160..."
@@MadAlhazred My Busa will get to Jupiter if I Redline it in First :D
best motorcycle channel for info hands down, and i never feel pleben.
always right up to my speed.
might sound a bit silly, but i used to maintain alot of small moped/scooters.
all the 4 stroke slow scooters where ALWAYS fouled up, and usually had bigger failures, including main bearing wear.
Same with the restricted 2 stroke engines.
now the fun part was the high RPM un-restricted 2 strokes. whenever i took those apart, i saw nice shiny metallic pistons, cilinder walls, a afree rotating crank. no fouling at all! even the exhaust looked ''relatively'' clean on the inside.
im not saying you must always ride an engine to the max... but even in a car, if you have the chance, every once in a while, just let it rev (when its warm) out a bit, use the engine in its entire capacity to burn away the built up carbon... you wont notice the extra power you get back, but the engine surely appreciates a little love from time to time... its like letting your dog from the leash, to run around in a park... instead of lugging along next to you... where is that dog happier?
Really good analogy sir. I own a old yamaha scooter with 135.000 km on it, and the engine still purr like kitten. Sometimes i do 'italian tune up' right before oil changing and afterwards.
Thats the advantage of living in Germany, I just go on the Autobahn every few months and go full speed for a bit, kept the DPF in my car and the pistons in my bike clean
@@ajisusetyo3613 a lot of people overlook the importance of getting the oil hot before changing
service dog to blind person ?
@@DarkIzo there always has to be one guy who doesn't understand a simple analogy and ruin it for everyone.
"I'm not an engineer, I studied physics like a grown up" had me on the floor laughing... Why is it that Ryan is always unnecessarily funny 😂
This had me laughing as well 😆
But he told the truth.
Sounded like Sheldon.
This had me crying 😭😭😭😭. Whyyyyyy!!!!
Had me in stitches too. buut!…physics is pure theory. Engineers think talk is cheap and actually do something
It applies to many cars as well. I remember Scotty from Haltech mentioned that high load and low RPM is where your connecting rods are under the most stress, especially on a turbo engine. Obviously tons of high RPM for prolonged periods may wear out piston rings and cylinders sooner, but I can attest that many cars NEED to see high RPM driving at least occasionally in order to run properly.
There is a sweet spot usually and you can kinda feel it with your ass through the seat.
Not only do the higher revs help clean the plugs and injectors and such, catalytic converters love it.
I don't know about other platforms but a stock S550 Mustang GT has a very distinctive smell when the cats get hot. I'm usually pretty easy on mine, but I make sure to get them good and hot once a month or so; that equates to holding a few gears at low throttle for a few seconds, 35-4500 rpm or so, or a quick run to redline in at least one gear.
Smells kinds sulfur-ey, like spent fireworks.
I drive an older car, but when I try out newer cars, they seem to run at unnaturally low RPMS. I know they are trying to be fuel efficient I guess, but it just feels wrong and it seems like the auto transmissions are set to shift wayyy too early. It just can't be good for those small turbos long term.
Newer cars will burn off deposits in the cat by injecting fuel into the cylinder during the exhaust phase (assuming the cat is already warm enough). It then travels down to the cat where it burns, changing all the nasty stuff in there into what is considered "clean". Use to be it'd catch all the large particulates and burn them to smaller ones. PM10 bad, burn them to
Could you explain that? As far as I can reason a lower rpm would result in a lower boost pressure too because the turbo wouldn't be spinning as quickly?
Great info! I ride a Kawasaki 900 Classic LT and so many owners swap out the pulleys and install taller rear tires to reduce RPMs. Your video has slammed the door on that idea for me. Thank you.
I love this explanation, it makes a lot of sense. The salesman at Ducati Indianapolis told me before a test ride, "These bikes (Multistrada 1200) like to run at 3,000-plus RPM, they're not happy just pooping around at 2,000.' He was so right. Redline on that big L-twin is 10,500, and it loves to scream. Heck yes, I bought the bike!
No modern engine likes to be run under 3k RPM, Ducati or not. Unless you're talking about Harleys with their undersquare diesel tractor ancient engine design.
@@sv650nyc7 inline 4 cylinders are still doing way better at this exercise than 2 cylinders like Ducati
My Kawasaki C-14 is cruising at 80
MPH at under 4000 rpm. 100 MPH
Is soon to follow. I love all the physics but there are so many qualifications. 100 mph in 2nd
Gear? Absolutely. You need huge
Balls and lots of skill to wrong out
Any hyper bike. Good luck 😅
@@sv650nyc7 of course they do.... and if you include car engines then they specially do as the efficient shift point for most cars is att 2000rpm. (before you argue i studied fuel economy and shit in school because it was part of our truck driving training) and my fz6n is so low geared that it's happy att 2500rpm. it's not about RPM but about having the power to efficiently run
@rampage3337 Fuel consumption & thermal efficiency generally live at opposite ends of the spectrum. Meaning: What you're engine likes & operates best at is usually not the same condition that nets highest MPG
A few years ago I was considering buying a small displacement motorcycle like maybe an R3 or an old Ninja 250. I was trying to watch some reviews from RUclipsrs, and they would always shift the bike at around half the RPM that it needs to reach peak horsepower, and then complain that the bike was underpowered.
Yes, small displacement bikes are the best kept secret of true riders 💖
My Versys X300 is a joy @ 13000rpm
I love my Suzuki GSF 400, it's powerful enough to be fun, you can rev it to redline for a few gears until the speedlimit, it's light enough for the city, it's just not comfortable over like 120 km/h which is maybe a good thing. I wanted something bigger but got too attached to this one, and I can't justify owning two bikes at once. I still sometimes get a feeling like I want something more. Anyone with similar experiences?
@misamisatv yeah, row through the gears to redline in a 600cc and up and you're well on your way to meeting Jesus.
@@MrJonas7 I own 4 bikes. On the opposite end of my X300 sits a 1700cc Nomad. Who do you need to justify it to?
Your explanation is true only in the hypothesis that we always introduce the same amount of fuel for each revolution of the engine. This is not the real case scenario. Low rpm means high internal stress only if you are at full throttle, filling the combustion chamber with more fuel than it can handle. It's hard for your feet to push the bike pedals if you're uphill and pushing hard, but if you're cruising calmly there's no fatigue at low rpm. So, avoid going full throttle at low revs when accelerating, use higher revs instead but the general law is: give as little throttle as possible using the right gear and your engine will thank you.
I mean, your advice makes perfect sense from a technical point of view, but giving as little throttle as possible also kind of defeats the whole point of having a motorcycle.
I think this makes more sense. I personally ride by sound. If the engine sounds like it's stressed, the rpm is too high. If it sounds too choppy, the rpm is too slow. His bicycle analogy didn't sit well with me, but I think you nailed it completely. The whole point of low gearing on a bicycle is that it makes riding _easier_ because it requires less work, work defined by torque applied by your feet over rotations.
The whole notion of work isn't force (how hard you push) or torque (how hard you pedal). It's force over distance, or torque over rotation. Who cares if you're applied 50 Joules of torque. You gotta tell me if it's 50 Joules of torque over 1 degree or 50 Joules of torque over 10 rotations. It really makes a difference.
I was about to say exactly this... Avoid sharp throttling from low RPM. Avoid throttling uphill in high gears.
If you throttle up and there's no immediate power response from your bike, that's a big tell you're not using it correctly and you should downshift.
Also,just because you're in low RPM range, doesn't necessarily mean you're in pre-detonation range, fuel intakes DEPENDS on throttle input, and as long as your throttle input is coherent with your current RPM, low gear trades range of travel (of pistons) for torque, and that ratio varies from engine to engine, depending on the engine's design characteristics aswell as the gearbox ratio, that's why engines have WIDE VARYING dyno graphs. Undersquare and oversquare bores will exhibit different toque and hp characteristics at the same RPM so there's no silver bullet.
Carbon deposits on the other hand have no solution other than burning it off as stated, although the RPM needed for reaching the operating temperature WILL VARY from engine to engine.
I'd recommend checking your own bike's service manual and looking for the alternator capacity. It'll give you a good estimate for kW/RPM. My CBX250 gets 0,205kW/5000RPM, and that's the RPM I aim for when I'm cruising.
A barroque dianostics for how you're running your bike would be
-Low charge battery: You are running it like a diesel truck and should run it at a high rpm
-You're on a second mortgage to pay for fuel and your neighboors hate you: You're revving it too high
-Weird vibrations: You're running it wrong
I would only be using 1st 2 of 6 gears legally. Italian tune every now and then, sure.
As a engineer developing engine, i would say fortnine said wrong. the rpm to power curve is not flat.
this is one of the best channels on youtube. Production value and writing is like a tv show you'd see on discovery or smth back in the day
I remember hearing never to lug an engine, and it made enough sense when the bike sounded like it was struggling, but now I know the science behind it.
i have a car where the whole body is shaking when the engines is undereved....u notice it even if you deaf.
@@tomast9034 So even deaf people can FEEL the shaking, huh?
@@tomast9034 Isn't this the case with every vehicle, my 500 also stutters like an elephant when I'm trying to accelerate off 2000rpm
@@tomast9034 and? the 4cyl engine of my car does shake a lot when driving low rpm. but doesnt mean it will break that way. i am driving the same car 21 years now and will do so another 21 years. full throttle 900rpm? no problem, since it has an injector, not a carburettor setup. first engine, never opened up, even the waterpump is way older then 21 years. from time to time i go to the racetrack to have some fun.
My motorcycle engine will willingly roll on from 2000rpm in top gear without complaint but it is a long stroke low rpm engine and designed for that kind of riding. (I'm talking roll on and not fast hard full throttle). Try that on something like an R6 and see what happens. 7000rpm on an R6 is just getting into the beginning of the power band. Oh! My motorcycle is not a Harley.
As used to be stated in Yamaha owner’s manuals many decades ago, “The maximum cruising speed is determined by 3/4 throttle or 3/4 of redline, whichever comes first.” I always kept this in mind, with both 2-strokes and 4-strokes, and I was rewarded with clean-running and high-performing engines with long service lives. If that cruising speed is not high enough, get a bigger bike. For this reason, I went from 180 cc to 350 cc to 400 cc to 750 cc, and finally to 1000 cc. A 750 sport bike is fast enough for most riders, so you only need a 1000 if your friend has one, in which case you definitely need that 1000. For other people, a 350 or 400 is fast enough, unless they ride on major highways with a passenger, especially in hilly or mountainous areas, in which case a 600 or 750 may be needed. You decide, based on your needs.
And don’t lug your engine! Even Harleys can be lugged, but in their case, the lowest safe rpm is quite a bit lower, as low as 2500-3000 rpm, while redline may be under 5-6000 rpm, indicating that contrary to some opinions, they do not have a wide range of usable rpm, unlike some high-revving brands that may be happy between 5000 and 10,000 rpm.
My Yamaha FZR400 redlined at 14k, which means cruise is at 10,500. Yeah it matches quite well, FZR400eds barely run below 4k, and comes alive at 9,500. Definitely not happy at 5k but somewhat driveable, it just loves being above 9,500.
Something very important from Yamaha manuals; The idle rpm, never go below! Lotsa gyus think a low idle sounds cool but thats only because they havent experienced a high speed stall with a 4 cyl performance bike, and stall they will if the idle is too low, plus harder to start.
@@pflaffik
A too-low idle sounds cool? That’s a new one on me. A lower than normal idle speed results in lower-than-normal oil pressure, in a situation when certain internal forces are relatively high, causing unnecessary wear.
Almost forgot: that’s the recommended MAX cruising speed, not the mandatory cruising speed. Also, to quote the Yamaha owner’s manual again: “..., bearing in mind local highway laws.” If a cop stops you for speeding, telling him that you weren’t exceeding the factory recommended maximum cruising speed won’t impress him. He may even think you’re a smartass, which does not help at all.
My partner has a 1976 XS500C and I can confirm that this is in the user manual.
Indeed a Harley has only a usable rpm from 2000 to 3500. Under 2000 it kicks like a mule. Above 3500 you can visit the dentist 4 times in a year. But the girls like the vibrations above 3500……. My 1984 Honda is happy between 1500 and 10000. Really happy between 6 and 10000
Jokes on you, I don't have any friends. I got my 1000cc because it looks cool and I'm an idiot with money.
Always happy to have Ryan validate my good habits with science 😁
you reckless rider!
@@fidelcatsro6948shh
except he completely fails to mention exponentially worse fuel economy at higher RPM, for some reason.
@@drossinitupI think that is obvious, travelling at higher RPMs means more combustions to travel the same distance
more combustions= more fuel
"You paid for the whole tachometer, so use the whole tachometer" Simply brilliant. The outdoor shots are right in my backyard in and around Vancouver for the most part and it's nice to see the local scenery.
0:22 it's really cool how you can see drag in action. Making a low pressure zone behind Ryan, so the smoke from the exhaust can collect back there as it get pulled up in the swirling air currents.
Whoa what a fuckin trip
Ooh thanks for pointing that out! Looks neat. ~RF9
The sign of a true unit of a man ✊️
Now you understand the mechanics behind the "exhaust smell" of a rider.
It means the pipe is coked up.
I have been enjoying my single cylinder long stroke bike on slow speeds and really low RPMs, now I realize why the spark plug failed so early and the ignition mistimed all within the first 3000 kms! Thanks for clarifying this - low RPM is not always being good to your bike. Cheers!
I have the same style engine, this vid may not suit, as it doesn't account for a heavier piston travelling at Higher speeds and distance, at the same revs as a revvy bike! The reciprocating/ off-balance forces / frictions will become way higher! Just get a hotter plug.
Idk I have a 4 cylinder and I ride in 6th gear alot low rpms for better mpg
@@valve0radio This vid also suits that kind of engine. I have a XT600Z and those engines suffer from wearing/breaking big ends if you keep on hammering them at low RPM. And if you ride them in fifth gear at low RPM the gear get's too little oil (for the earlier engines atleast) and the fifth gear will wear.
I'm a new motorcycle owner and the reason I was confident enough to get into motorcycles. It's because of this man here. I appreciate every video you've put out, especially the one on how to break in an engine thank you and keep doing what you're doing!!
Same here! 470 miles so far, all thanks to him! Invaluable. Maybe even life changing.
Only about half the information he puts out is actually good. I'm never going to forget his video on cornering when he says counterbalancing and better than having your body on the inside of the turn.
@@ayyblyat9450 from memory he was referring to slow tight corners, not full on sending it corners.
@@ayyblyat9450 Right, he did recently make a video about police training where he now corrects himself and admits he was wrong at least. Maybe this video is more applicable to 2-strokes and high revving sport bikes? But he does assume beginners will have that foresight :/
A wonderful piece! Short (but not hurried), intelligent, and with character. You are making some of the best videos on RUclips.
After watching your video, I changed my mindset. My Hayabusa is plenty happy and powerful enough to hum along at 2-3k RPM and still be able to accelerate at will. Now I did my highway commute in 2nd gear to keep RPM at 8k. Could go higher RPM but then I'd lose my license. Conclusion: I can never shift above 2nd on this bike.
En mi parecer. No le hagas caso a estos video porque dejan mucha cosas de lado. 8k rpm para esa moto es una brutalidad. La vas a fundir porque el aceite no va ser capaz de lubricar. Ve la curva de aceleración de tu moto y allli tendrás un referencia. Para evitar la detonación que dice el vídeo, usa buenos combustibles y ponle según dice el manual respetando la relación de compresión. Pero si en alguna ocasión no encuentras el combustible que indica el manual, ponle uno más bajo, no va a afectar el motor por un corto periodo. Saludos desde Chile.
I'd say that the healthiest would be to adjust your driving style once in a while: if you ride calmly most of the time, rev it once in a while. If you drive the bajeezus out of it mostly, give it a rest and do some relaxed cruising for a bit. Your engine will love it.
🤓lmao engines don't need a "rest". You could easily have an engine running 15,000rpm for a week straight only turning it off for oil changes.
I gotta say car/bike culture brings together the stupidest people, everybody and their mother thinks that ONLY THEY know how to take care of an engine. God I hate people on the Internet
Changing your oil often is what an engine loves. As does an engine that is singing at it's optimal rpm.
So a bike need rest?
Weard tought!
its a mecanical devises, it dont need rest mate, you can let it cool down if needed. 😊
@@avec-zam7301 It doesn't need rest, it needs a balance in usage.
This doesn't apply to all mechanical devices obviously but it does apply to most internal combustion engines.
My God, the writing, delivery, and presentation are off the charts. This channel has no right to have this level of production quality, but here we are. Way to bring shame to much bigger outfits. Well done team.
Presentation top notch. Yet usable information is below par.
He didnt show or tell the negatives of constant high reving. And which negative weighes more when you compare them.
Enjoy your laugh and broken bike
I just sold my VStrom 1000 that I had for five years. Rode the damn thing from New York all the way to Ushuaia - 65,000 miles and change.
Took me a full year on the road to finally realize the thing was happiest and ran smoothest somewhere in the 4000 to 6000 RMP range.
As a mechanic, trust your oil system. Let it warm up before sending high rpms then let the engine go. Of course different engines have their happy zones but so few are content under 3k for long periods of time.
What about car engines? Am I wrong that my 1.8 duratec feels better in 2.5-3.2k diapason just by its sound?
Also another reminder why most motorcycles have fuel injection, but none whatsoever have Direct-Injection. Just like F1 cars don't either. Because they're high-speed engines(crank speed that is) and modern high pressure injectors just can't keep up adequately. Not because it's not physically possible, but because paying ~$7-500 per injector and ~$1000-500 for high-pressure fuel pumps every couple thousand miles(if even that) isn't desirable to anyone.
@@rogerpratchet cars are very different than motorcycles. Cars are often optimized for low rpm. My jeep sits at 1500 at 70mph in 8th gear just fine. I wouldn't do the same on a bike.
@@BlondeWick Actually the reason why F1 cars didn't use DI pre 2014 was because it was against F1 regulations, since March 2014 all of them can and do use direct injection.
The only downside to DI is that the fuel doesn't clean the back of the valves and can result in carbon build up, some modern cars now have an additional injector before the manifold to overcome this problem.
How about the Honda 750 twin with only 56hp? It loves low RPMs and has a lot of torque.
Not a cyclist, but your videos are great. A perfect mix of Professor Proton and gearhead. Keep up the great work.
Have you ever seen any Downhill clips? Because they will either get you onto MTB or completely GUARANTEE that you will never get on a bicicle in a mountain XD
None of us are cyclists either.. Bicycles just aren't as fun
@@marcelsadura2114 idk id argue youre at a higher risk on the road because EVERYONE has to overtake you
@@TrueHelpTV as a cyclist myself, i have to agree. What they did in my country is BULLSHIT, straight up. Car lanes on most city sections are limited to 30Km/h or around 20mph because many lanes are ment to be shared with bikes, but bikes are actually not suposed to surpass 25Km/h by regulation (yes, you can get a speeding ticket on a bycicle here, but it's not really enforced since it's stupid AF). In the end most people drive at whatever speed they want and it's not hard to find an average of one or two assholes each 30 mins in the road. To top it off, there have been added bike paths specifically for bicicles where pedestrians just don't give a shit they're in the way, to the point where they don't even look to cross and get shocked when a bike is in the bike path, WHO WOULD'VE KNOWN?! Also, don't you DARE get on the sidewalk because then you will have to deal with dissrespectfull assholes who don't care how much space you're leaving, if you have a legit reason to be there or how carefull you're being, they're offended about your existence and will let you know either with a respectfull tone or straight up behave like an upset toddler. I literally have been told anything you can and can't imagine with levels of bullshittery that are injustifiable from any half sentient being, like that i cannot go in the road with a bycicle after someone that wasn't payng attention complained that he had to brake because i was there, don't mind the fking yield sing...
Sorry for the rant, but i'm really done with this and the comment just went out of control. Cycling is a great sport as long as you don't have to ride in cities, sadly i just can't go to many trails, much less often. I cannot talk about it without ranting because of how absolutely done i am about this stuff, it kinda went off the rails but i think i made my point, traffic flow matters and bicicles unless electric do not belong in the road with cars imo.
@marcelsadura2114 safer? Half the people I know from Vancouver are messed up from petal bike accidents....
It’s always a balancing act, any engineer will tell you that… I’m surprised a Physicist figured this out on his own 😉
Physicist derived the problem from first principles, the engineer looked at a manual. Who's smarter? lol
An engineer *wrote* the manual...
Bro it was a joke…
@@tempestandacomputer6951a true engineer needs no manual dude
No, I think you’ve got the engineer confused with a technician?
All of this depends on how the engine was designed and by whom. I’ve been riding since 1972 and I grew up on Triumphs. My first bike was a 1969 Triumph Trident 750 triple, which, although being a pushrod engine, could be revved to 11500rpm without throwing pushrods. Les Williams, the factory race rider said they would go higher, but that’s where he put the redline. This particular engine was designed with higher revs in mind, but it would pootle along quite happily at anywhere between 1500 to 5000rpm. It was quite different from the parrallel twin Bonnevilles that I rode later, which had 360 degree crankshafts and would rev to 7200rpm max. They produced bags of low down torque, which would allow you to chug along in top gear at 3000rpm, but that would produce far too much lowdown vibration and would thrash out the crankshaft bearings and big end bearing shells in no time. The shocks would be sent through the drivetrain as well, with the primary transmission chain and clutch (not to mention the gearbox and final drive chain and rear sprocket) all suffering as a result. The sweet spot for a Triumph Bonneville was around 4,000-5,000rpm. The BSA’s and Nortons weren’t much different. Hardly any of those bikes needed to be revving any higher and they just weren’t physicaly capable of doing much over the low 7’s, RPM-wise. The gearing on the Bonnevilles was such that at the 7,200rpm redline, the bike was doing 120mph and that is quite fast enough, thank you very much. I was clocked by a Police radar at 131mph on my Trident, but the guy turned out to be the father of a friend of mine and let me go with a stern lecture. Seeing as the few cars out on the Freeway had been doing around the limit of 60mph, to me they appeared to be reversing towards me at 70mph and that was scary enough that I never wanted to experience that again.
About this high revs/low revs business, the famed Vincent Black Shadow V-Twins were designed to be travelling at well over 130mph at 6,100rpm in top gear, so again, no need for anything more. The fact that they too ran plain white metal big end bearings meant that revs too much higher than the mid 6,000’s was not an engine friendly idea anyway.
In my experience, you can go quite fast enough to get you into serious trouble on many motorcycles without having to go higher than 7k rpm. I chuckle at Harley riders (of which I am one too, so I’m allowed) who chug along at 30mph in top gear, with the revs just over idle speed. Yes, they will do it and it sounds cool, but the bottom ends are not really designed to take such treatment for extended periods of time, but they are also not really designed to rev to the skies either. They aren’t designed that way.
To me, the whole traction control on a motorbike thing is like driving a car with an automatic transmission; if you can’t drive a stick-shift, you cain’t drive. Same goies for Motorcyles with traction control. If you can’t ride without that stuff, you can’t really ride. SOme computer is doing that for you and I don’t like any piece of technology deciding things for me. Just look at the ‘success’ of the Tesla auto-pilot feature and how many deaths that has caused.
Now, I’m not totally against traction-control on a Bike in certain situations, BUT I AM against people becoming too reliant on the technology to keep them out of trouble, because they lose the ‘feel’ of a motorcycle’s tyres on the road and if the system breaks (please don’t tell me computers don't break, that’s like saying politicians don't lie) then you will be unable to ‘feel’ when those tryes are getting near the limit of their sticking ability. Like someone here said, you need to be able to ‘listen’ to your bike and it will treat you right.
Fifty years later, I finally understand this basic and important fact of life. Thank you sir.
I say fifty years because as a cycling teenager, I preferred lower gears, even up-hill - suits my muscle type evidently (ie, low down torque like an under-square engine). I was also constantly replacing the kota pins in the pedal cranks. Now, at last, I see that there was a connection. (Footnote: I solved my problem when friend showed me how to arc weld!)
it's a balance you need to find because, while higher gears are tougher on the pedal side of things, lower gears put stronger forces onto the wheel side, which can lead to equally catastrophic failure.
like one time i was going up hill and i shifted down and stood up, i put so much force on the rear wheel that the inside of the wheel was turning, while the outside was not, completely scrunched up the wheel like that and bent the frame in the process, that bike was fubar after that.
Totally agree. Engines don't like to be lugged, they were designed to spin.
This is a real issue in trials. Trials engines are tuned for massive torque and spend much of their time chugging around in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear at relatively low rpm. If you watch experienced riders you'll often see them hold the bike at full throttle with the clutch engaged for several seconds before entering a section, especially if the section involves big splats over rocks or similar. A veteran trials rider once told me that the "cleanest" his bikes ever run is after an event such as the SSDT where travelling between sections requires a lot of road miles using high gears and high rpm. So another vote for the "Italian tune-up" I guess :)
Once in a while we go on a trail ride on our trials bikes. Inevitably there are plumes of smoke coming out our exhausts as the unburned carbon/oil deposits from low speed riding burn off. In fact sometimes the exhaust can catch on fire and keep burning/smoking after shutting the engine off. Another vote for periodically revving the tits off the bike. Though I think Engineering Explained has a video debunking the Italian Tuneup in modern cars.
Better have it in neutral when you have the clutch engaged or else you'll be tearin' across the tulips.
3:47 I knew it!!! I was installing my spark plugs upside down! Thanks FortNine!!!
One more good reason to not lug at really low RPM: lower oil pressure. Lugging at low revs means all that force on the piston is being transferred down the rod and through the big end bearing - but it _should_ be pressing against that thin film of oil that prevents the rod bearing from actually touching the crankshaft. Lower revs, and thus lower oil pressure, means more chance of that oily film being pushed out of the way when that piston fires.
Also another point is oil delivery is often lacking at low rpms. The 80s Honda magnas were notorious for poorly oiling the cams when running below 3k.
@@k9turrentindeed, this is because of the large operating range of the pump requiring variable output or extremely robust design. Hard to make a pump that works well at both 2k and 16k rpm.
@@k9turrentmy 86 Honda concurs
@@k9turrentSame on my 99 Shadow. It's like nails on a chalkboard when I hear a Shadow loping like a Harley for that reason.
You will still have sufficient oil pressure and flow at low rpm. If you didn't, your engine would be highly unreliable. At higher rpm, large volumes of oil will go through the bypass valve and won't even circulate through the engine; it'll just be dumped right back in the the sump. This is by design, to avoid overpressure of the oiling system.
I guess this is why all of my cars and bikes run like a dream, even though some of them have long since passed the 30 year mark. I meticulously maintain all of them but I also do a fair bit of, lets call it "spirited riding/driving" with them. And I used a borescope on all of them, the inside of their engines looks nice and clean with only very little carbon buildup.
yeah me too. I just can't help but pushing it a bit when i see a clear road or even street
I love at 3:41 the spark plug is upside down😂 great video nonetheless
GREAT CATCH!
🤣🤣🤣
Had to scroll way to far to see this comment.
Ooooh sharp eye! I'm ashamed to say I watched several cuts of this edit and never saw that. ~RF9
@@FortNine If I could add a wee notice too LOL - Holding up a valve and piston while standing over your two-stroke could mislead some greener bikies... LOL
Love the way you explain, bringing the right balance of real-life mechanics, physics & some good humour to back up.
I agree to use what you paid for. I paid for the tach, I'll use it. Similarly, I paid for the airbags in my car, and I plan on using them.
Yes, but only one of those 2 needs replacement after the "use".
You paid for insurance, now use it!
@@dougrobinson8602 who says I paid for insurance?
Kek
I had an old lady neighbor who only had one car that she bought brand new in the 70s, and when it was time to get a new car, she actually told the salesman to remove the airbags and sunroof because her old car didn't have them and she didn't want to pay for them.
Yep, thanks for the advise.
Lately I’ve been pushing my old KLR650 single cylinder engine into a highrer RPM range, and it’s doing very well.
The KLR will burn some oil at these higher RPMs, but all you have to do is check the oil level frequently, and top up as necessary.
Happy Trails
Also don't forget that 3500rpm-4500 is mid range for our (drive an Xt600) bikes. While those numbers are just Low-Rpm for something like an R6. The Piston displacement also means a lot!
I just bought an xsr900 (my dream bike) so I've been putting a lot of thought on how I need to ride it for "longevity". This video came right on time 😁
Good luck reving it hard and avoiding the cops :D I love that engine
you've been dreaming for that one for a while!
Flog the bejeeziss out of it.
Ride the beans out of it! Engines can be replaced
And also be safe while you do it brother, have fun
I have 2005 GSXR-1000 I commute 60 miles round trip on daily. Bought it new and immediately converted into a race bike. Modded, tuned and aggressively geared. Had about 3K hard miles on it when I retired it and turned it into a streeter. While it spent those first 3K miles banging up against the rev limiter constantly, it's gone another 90K miles of MOSTLY freeway miles and in 6th gear at around 6,000 RPMs. No rebuilds, I think only one valve adjustment, clutch swap, and little things here and there but the thing still runs like a charm. So for me at least, 6K RPMs in 6th gear at 80 MPH freeway is the sweet spot.
for those few of us that don't have traction control, using higher revs in a corner is definitely a healthier proposition. What you don't want is to be just below the peak torque coming out of a bend, because if you lose traction, the rear will spin up real fast, as it is then right in the meat of the torque curve. what you want is to be on the down slope of the torque curve (i.e. for most of us above 8000rpm), so if it starts to spin up, there is less torque available and you have more of a chance of catching it by feathering the throttle SLIGHTLY. Shutting the throttle to zero (=panic reaction) will probably have you out of the saddle anyway, it's something you have to train in.
and all the stuff in the video about preserving the oil film, avoiding detonation etc. is spot on.
Got to be really careful with engine breaking at high rpm round a corner though. Easing off the throttle too quickly can have a "handbrake turn" effect.
or you can get an engine that has instances where no cylinder is firing.
which is pretty much every four stroke engine with fewer than four cylinders (or one cylinder two stroke), crossplain engines and especially big bang engines.
However in cases of rain and compromised traction. It is better to start/ enter the corner at a lower rpm ( and typically higher gear) and use the torwue of the engine to pull the vehicle through.
Can you simplify this? I don't understand
As an added bonus riding at speed in higher revs provides better engine breaking, after riding for 20 years I did my first track day, the single best take away was that I'd been riding for 20 years mostly one gear too high. I think it came from the mindset of wanting to "protect" the engine. I should have been thinking more about protecting me, and that meant drop it down a cog in almost every scenario.
YES! With the added bonus of always being in the fat part of the power/torque curve!
A true motorcyclist will ride ALL bikes. It doesn’t matter what displacement, and they’ll never make fun of anyone else for what they ride. Thanks Ryan. 👍
Absolutely agree. I've owned bikes from 250 cc on up to 1500 cc -- every single one of them was an absolute blast to ride.
And riders are riders -- I don't care if you're on a "step-through", you're still a rider.
Love my big-ass Bonneville, love my shitty-ass Vespa.
Not true, always make fun of HD riders.
There are plenty of bikes I won't ride
@Damitsall The overweight bikes aren't even the worst part, it's the shorts and sandals.
When I got my motorbike license, my practical lessons were all on a Yamaha MT-07. The instructor told me, when it's safe aka when the road is clear and conditions are good, I can shift down and let the engine rip for a little bit under acceleration. And having driven sports cars before, I felt like the 73 or so hp of the MT-07 is plenty fast for the road. After getting my license I bought an SV650 as my first bike which, thanks to an aftermarket exhaust, makes 76hp. I love it, and like the MT-07, I think this is all the power you need on the road. But at work, a lot of my colleagues also ride motorbikes and they're all laughing and calling this a "beginner bike" and they all keep talking about how one of them bought a Super Duke, the other a Kawasaki H2, the other a Ducati Streetfighter V4 etc. None of them regularly ride on a track, by the way. They say these "small bikes" like the SV650 don't have any grunt, so they feel like they need those big engines, and I never understood their point. Now I know why. They're too lazy to shift down a gear or two and wind the engine out in 2nd or 3rd gear. Because once you do that, even with an SV650, you're flying past other traffic.
I actually needed this lesson. thank you
Ryan your information is correct, well done on the way you have relayed this. I’m an old dude that reviews motorcycles on my channel down in Aus, I have as you’d imagine had many many over the years. One of the things I’ve learnt over this time is baby them and they will eventually give problems as you describe in your video, I’m not saying constantly thrash the hell out of them but let these modern day engines do what they were designed to do. I come from the 2 stroke era and this was especially important, you make very good videos-keep it up mate.👍
I disagree, my '99 CB500 and '06 900 Hornet both have gone round the clock [and the 500 into the side of a car] with no problems as described. Running sub 60% of the red line, and mostly sub 40% has seen the engines perfectly sound, and I have never needed a shim in either.
Absolutely! I grew up riding two stroke dirt bikes and family members would always yell at me to quit riding it easy or I’m going to foul the plugs. The one time I had to pull the plugs and clean them out on the trail was my lesson learned to quit fouling the plugs 😂
Mr. FortNine,
I attended a diesel tech school in PA in 1984. (Yes, I'm that old damnit) Then 5 years in the US Army working on EVERYTHING they had with a piston, valves, cranks and cams.
You are spot on with your RPM analysis. Worst thing you can do is lug a diesel. They live to work. The same goes for my KTM 690 Enduro. The more I roll into that throttle, the happier we both are! Keep up the good work man. Love your channel.
Same for a 2stroke KTM 250xcw. Lugging it around technical trails for a weekend resulted in plugs caked with carbon.
This guy and his unique sense of humour and sarcasm, I enjoy these videos whlist learning about motorcycles
"As many horses as a six pack of Ikea meat balls" - Ryan just gets better and better. His work should be on the curriculum of all mechanical engineering courses. Thanks for making my ribs ache.
I can't believe THIS is how I found out about the decade-old Ikea Meatball horse meat scandal.
He got a sub for the "horse laugh" that quote elicited from me alone. Great sense of humor.
Got me going too
Classic line! My fave of the entire video.
Awesome. This reminds me of the Ford vs Ferrari scene where Bale's character (Ken Miles) says to the customer "too much fuel not enough spark" "try to change it up at
5000 RPM not 2.”!
Again, well done as always!
One of my favourite lines, swiftly followed by ‘No, but this isn’t really your car. Your car is more of a Plymouth or a Studebaker’. As Brit I have no idea what either of those cars are, but the meaning was plain
Theres been numerous studies, I think Engineering Explained has a good video about the carbonization. Basically if your engine is water cooled, you reliably cannot alter the cylinder temperatures to actually get high enough temperatures to start burning carbon off. On some old air cooled motorbikes, yes italian tune ups might work. But modern water cooled bikes, it doesnt matter what rpm you use. Ofcourse dont try to run redline or idle speeds as you are cruising around.
But, if you have some intake/engine/exhaust mods to your bike, or some EGR on your exhaust, giving full beans from time to time will clear out carbon from the exhaust and EGR systems. But again, you dont need to be at high revs the whole time, only occasionally.
add a turbo, you will get high enough temperatures to burn the carbon of your pistons ;p
The answer I've been searching for decades since when I started driving my first motorcycle. Perfect explanation.
Wilhelm Scream @ 4:21 had me bustin' a gut. Classic!
Your videos are full of witticisms that an engineer just cannot compute. I think I'll watch again.
Always a good day when FortNine uploads
🤓
@@YouYou-tg7qe🤓
Damm right!!!
The first time I read about "lugging" an engine was in "How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive" by John Muir. Very bad for air cooled VWs too. Thanks Ryan for reminding me to wind out my bikes too!
Same on my old 911 air cooled. Drive it like I stole it after a day of slow traffic, good as new.
Really great book! A must have for every air-cool VW owner
I had the book and I red0lined the crap off of my Beetles, but can't recall it actually said it!
I think I literally just commented this on another FortNine video, but man the scripts on these are phenomenal.
This is especially important on my old '74 CB550. I need to ride that bike around 4-5k RPM minimum, otherwise the battery won't even charge. The old Honda CBs would also foul plugs if you let them idle too much due to running rich on the low end.
"I'm no engineer, I studied physics like a grown-up." As a fellow physicist this is accurate
As a engineer, I chuckled.
@@alexantonie1144As an engineer, I have a decent paying job without still paying off loans on an advanced degree...so I chuckled, too
Every one who has ever met an engineer expected the salary comments the second he said it. Ironic considered with nearly 2m subs Ryan is absolutely blowing whatever your salary is out of the water. @@GalamatiasOne
π = e = sqrt(g) = 3 you know its true really 😉
@@jonnovak6856
I don't think being a youtuber requires a degree in physics, but OK.
I am absolutely loving that you're using the Silverwing cluster for your title shot. My father and I each have one, and they are easily our favourite bikes.
Greetings from Japan. I lived in Vancouver (Burnaby actually) for 7 years (2000~2007). I rode a Honda CB250 then a Ducati Pantah 600 when I was very young; looking to get back on two wheels when my wife will allow it. Apart from the (mostly excellent) technical tips, the gift of the gab is what gets me coming back for more; it's like a strange marriage between 'Moto Control' and 'Stephen Fry'. But the kicker is, that is sooo B.C. Love ya Guy.
I always thought the "Burn off the carbon" thing was just an excuse to drive fast, didn't know it was actually true haha.
Same here, I would tell my wife "ah, just cleaning the engine" and no complains. I thought to myself its just bro science
I learned (from the Internet, per usual) a few years ago that rotary engines in cars need to be revved high regularly for this exact reason. Seems like it is especially true and effective for 2 stroke engines.
Its literally how dpf filter works on diesel powered cars. Literally uses exhaust heat and sometimes a lil diesel to burn off soot deposits. SO dpf regen is literally burning off soot and the engine needs to rev high for a few minutes for this to work and driving a dpf fitted diesel car all day long in traffic at low rpm can actually clog up ur dpf filter
@@shira_yoneit’s similar with diesel engines as well. I mean while they don’t rev as high as doritos but using the entire tach from time to time helps
It is!
I don't even ride motorcycles but this channel is insanely entertaining. I may have a new hobby in my near future.
Just be warned... Motorcycling is addictive. But I cannot think of a better addiction!
Do it! You won't regret it!
Best fun and addiction ever! You won't regret! Make sure to ride safe!
riding is great experience, you must try it
It's a fantastic hobby, but I would strongly recommend an MSF course before getting a bike.
Just be careful do not become attached to your motorcycle. Do other things aswell because its a sin.
The quality content this channel is pushing out is klinda amazing. Thankyou RyanF9, froma fellow Ryan.
Indeed. I don't really care about motorcycles and I don't even have a car license, but this content is just too good to resist.
My all time favourite motorcycle RUclips channel. I have been riding motorcycles since 1966 and I am still learning. I do however long for the days of the screaming two strokes, thrashing them all week, fixing them all weekend.
My favorite thing you've ever said. Use that tachometer. Enjoy your insights keep them coming.
Nice inverted sparkplug in your animation, Ryan. Based upon the ignition, a terminal nut doesn't even require a spark gap. Now, that's physics at its finest...
Dang youre sharp. Had to rewatch to realise i missed that 😂
I came here to say this but you already did.
I was saying the same when it showed. I don't know if he was trying to be funny, or the artist knows nothing about engines. :)
@@Apollo-ComputersGotta screw things up to boost engagement!
@@IzharJumadi Thanks! Proudly showed your comment to my wife. Her dry retort was, "Always knew you were the sharpest butter knife in the silver set!"🤣🤣🤣
@4:14 here's your problem, lady. Your spark plug is upside down!
This was VERY informative. I've telling customers this at my shop for years and I get a lot of pushback. We get so many repair jobs due to these bad riding habits. Good stuff.
Well, your job is secured because of those habits...
Hello, I've seen holed pistons at my local shop. Now I have a clue as to how they became holed.
He's not completely wrong, but his examples are all wrong. Like when he used the bicycle; its not harder on the parts to use lower RPM, it's harder on you. Your a replacement for gasoline, not necessarily an engine component. So by that example he means your harder on gasoline which is fine by me, I guess it means your getting the most bang for your buck.
@@Damitsall Nothing wrong with his bike example. If you want to reach equal speed with lower RPM you need more torque to compensate. More torque means higher forces. I can break off the pedals or snap the chain of my bike if I want to at low speed in high gear. Impossbile to do at high RPM. And even our muscles have a power/rpm or rather a force/velocity curve so the higher the contraction velocity the lower the amount of force they can deliver.
@@DamitsallHis example isn’t wrong, you just didn’t get it. Lower rpm at the same speed is harder on engine components.
As an Owner of a '16 Honda CRF250L, I have to agree. Not only was my engine directly taken from the CBR250R(high strung sportbike) but ever since realizing how easy ripping the engine apart can be changing my clutch, I've been beating the crap out of the bike and it's actually happier at highway speeds. Stock everything except for removing judder spring and a drilled out airbox (which w/o an EJK/Fuel Controller means the bike wants to GO, otherwise the ECU is too busy trying to adjust itself) so aside from loss of fuel economy (~67 mpg vs ~75 mpg) it's hands down been eye opening. When I realized that even now I'm rarely hitting the rev limiter when trying to, I stopped worrying and started to embrace the weird LRP for what it was, and enjoying the sound of the factory muffler minus the spark arrestor. The 2-1-3 layout of the exhaust valves-header-baffles in the factory setup is actually kind of a brilliant sound. Makes me want to learn to weld so even if I ever switch the parts out I can mimic the harmonics. Or just fabricate a Y-pipe to run twin mufflers like the R models did back then, for the unique look rather than performance. 2016 was the last model year before Honda entered it's current "no fun allowed" era (i.e. last year the VFR800/Interceptor was produced was 2016)😐
I recently went on a UK 'advanced' rider training course run by Derbyshire Police. We had 4 instructors who were all Police Motorcycle instructors too. They are quick (bloody quick), smooth and extremely good riders. One turned up on a Police BMW f650 GS. The other instructors said he rarely used any gear higher than 3rd, and always got whoever he was chasing. Okay, Derbyshire is perfect bike riding countryside but he kept his engine singing all the way through the day.
The 650 Rotax single(well, mine) is a complete dog at anything under 4K rpm, and pulls hardest at around 6K.
Interesting topic. It seems like revving an engine consistently for long periods of time would put more stress on the engine and lead to a shorter life. The closer you get to redline the closer engine components are to their maximum stress limit. It does make sense that revving it occasionally could be beneficial though.
components have a safety factor redlining is not the best in my opinion but he is right about the high RPMs that remove the carbon deposites and keep the valves from failing
@@takis8vas italian tuneups are useful
As he said, moto engines are designed to go fast. High speed in a lower gear unloads the force that lugging the engine would put on just about every component inside it, from the piston top and cylinder wall through to the gearbox and final drive, especially in a shaft drive. Witness the bicycle analogy. Higher RPMs in a lower gear takes them further from their stress limit rather than closer to it. Ride On!
@@takis8vasI believe he is right rpm is better than lugging. Seen it with the little old lady car every one wants to find. Excellent condition low miles,till a normal person starts driving it NOT lugging around like an old lady,all of a sudden 40k motor is a piece of crap cuz it had never been used as intended. Rpm does not hurt a motor. Lugging does
He just explained that there is more cylinder pressure at low rpm. That’s where the stress comes from not rpm. Motors are designed to run thru their full cycle. Ford coyote can bang the limiter all day and last forever at over 7k rpm and boosted to 600hp. Have one I drag race,for 6 years now.
Not scared
OMG finally a video that supports what I have promoted for the past 52 years riding Harley-Davidson, don't lug your engines! FortNine however failed to mention the 'personal' safety aspect - that is, if you are lugging your engine you are also putting yourself in danger on the road. Finding the sweet-spot is where you have ample torque to get yourself out of danger without having to drop a gear! On my Harley, that sweet-spot is 3,200 rpm and that's where I keep my engine running.
True, I have now a little 390cc and has 0 torque from 0 to 5000rpm, riding at 3000rpm makes the bike do funny stuff, can't describe it but is not running smooth at all. . . I'm on my breaking kms so I can't go high rpm (is electronically limited to 7000 at the moment)
@@JP-xd6fm break in is a myth fyi
So, on your Harley if you are cruising through town in 3rd gear, you are at 3,200 and you won't shift to 4th? Just want to clarify what you are sayin.
Okay first, I'm not at all a metro rider so, I can't answer your question with all honesty but, when I am riding through a speed zone of 30pmh or 50kmph then yes, I still keep my rpm at about 3,000 rpm. It has been my lifelong riding habit - I just do not like to lug my bike - it will knock the crap out of your main bearings. Harley rider for 52 years now. I hope this helps.@@user-bk8db7ud6k
Fort9ine is my fav motorcycle creator here on youtube. I’ve learnt a a lot through his videos. It’s very informative.
My 2stroke moped do be liking it when it cruises at 10k rpm in that little 50cc cilinder.
My Neighbours however..
And I thought this was going to be about rev balancing the voltage load of the components vs the recharge of the alternator. A lesson learned on my 2008 FZ06. Too low rpm’s didn’t let the battery recharge.
thats another good point
I had one, Not as easy to rev high all the time, 1st goes to almost 100km/h I recall, that little 600 goes up to 14k rpm and wakes up after 8k rpm, was quite fun, maybe not as a R6, but was enough for me.
had an '05 FZ6 Fazer with the same issue BUT it stopped being an issue when I unplugged the second headlight, restoring stock lighting setup
REally? My old (very old) XS650 had the same peculiarity. It literally wouldn't charge the battery under 2000 revs if my memory serves me correct.
You obviously need a new stator
This is good information for the uninitiated or a novice when it comes to manual transmissions. The bicycle gear ratio analogy is a great way to draw a parallel to the stresses on an engine under various load situations.
Definitely going to use that analogy when I teach my son how to drive.
Glad I found this. I'm one of the ones who intuitively feels lower RPM is easier on the machine
This was very useful! I’m new to riding and I’ve been keeping the revs lower to cut down on engine wear. I’ve definitely lugged more than I wanted to.
@fishjcb As a new rider, work your way up carefully. Focus on throttle control (your inputs) at different revs so you learn what your bike can handle. Abruptness at high RPM can be unforgiving. Be smooth.
@prickly-pear great advice! As a new rider as well, and smoothness is the number one thing I’ve been practicing. 🫡
@@jonnybrown1717 Right on. Read as much as you can to understand how the chassis behaves, under braking, throttle, cornering dynamics, and so on. Electronic aids are great but awareness is better. ✌️
pro tip, you'll hear and feel if you're riding at too low revs
@@prickly-pear true! I would also say, not buying an overpowered bike for your skill levels is a good idea. There are too many guys on Panigale V4s on trackdays that get overtaken by 300cc bikes :D
My lawnmower has a predetermined RPM zone of operation, where longevity, power and economy meet at peak torque.
I learned from that and applied it to all my vehicles, but thanks for the confirmation.
That sounds like a lot of fun........LOL
Operating at peak torque, not horsepower, distributes the load all over engine parts.
Super helpful topic. I'm a new rider and I know motorcycles rev higher than something like my truck, so I ended up searching this online about a month ago to get an idea of what other riders do. It's almost as if Ryan is keeping track of my internet history. The gist I got was around 5000 - 6000 rpm when at a steady speed on a thumper.
That first part is a little bit of a misguided assumption. A 2012 Street Glide 103ci rev limiter is 5500rpm. I know you ended your statement about single cylinder bikes but regardless of what you ride, grow understanding the large range of variety when the blanket term “motorcycles” is used. Keep two down and enjoy! 👍🏼
For a 4 stroke, long-stroke thumper that is too much for general cruising. Riders on HDs (motorised bath chairs) are often between 2500-3000. Some thumpers max out at 6000, so they should cruise at no more than 4000.
@@csjrogerson2377 Mine seems to have a decently high redline. The shift indicator light comes on at 7000. It seems happy cruising around 4000 - 5000. Any less and it feels like it's lugging.
@csjrogerson2377 Thumpers (single cylinders) are pretty much always oversquare designs and not stokers. They have a balancer shaft and need to be revd a little to make some power. Of all the thumpers I owned or tried none of them liked to be lugged below 3500/4000rpm. Most are happy and make peak power between 5-7000 rpm. For exemple my little klx250s is useless below 4500 rpm but will cruise all day at 7000. My XR650L id say not good below 3500, sweet spot would be around 6000.
Wilhelm scream has made me clean my desk. Your channel is the best youtube discovery of my 2024 so far. Cheers!
Tru, this is why I think cheap Chinese built motorcycles are so reliable because you basically have to run them at max RPM until they eventually die but the entire lifespan they are incredibly reliable
That's an interesting account of them, I'll bear that in mind if I get a chance with one. Thanks for sharing 👍
I've noticed the dealers sell a lot of those in the last few years (won't name names here) so something must have improved otherwise we'd see them all on the roadside 😂
And thanks to Physics Dude for another classic video
@@HeartOfLightning China has been the capital of motorcycles for ages now. They've pretty much perfected the cheap and reliable formula for bikes - even more so than Honda or Royal Enfield. They pretty much had to if they wanted to corner the market. The Southern and central world rides nothing but sturdy Chinese bikes now.
Every bike is absolutely reliable until it breaks down... Some will recover, some are better thrown away immediately.
@@shadowgattler I'd say they've found the right balance of cheap and reliable. They're cheap enough that they're replaceable when corrosion starts to affect reliability. You rarely see them broken down, but you also rarely see an old one
Love the way Ryan breaks it down, an explanation, not a lecture. Best MC content on the web.
As a general rule, ride in the highest gear that gives you the acceleration you need, and do NOT use full throttle below half redline. And yes, an occasional "Italian tuneup" is good, just don't get a speeding ticket.
At low rpm, opening the throttle beyond a certain point has no effect. That's because the flow rate is port-rpm limited instead of throttle limited. IOW, the engine can't take as much air as the throttle can allow, at low rpm (much less than half of redline; usually 1500-2000rpm at most, at which point < wide-open throttle becomes the limiter).
I have a Yamaha YXZ which is basically a bulletbike engine in a side by side. I've worked on these a lot with a past job I had and I know they like revs and that's the way you run them. People never believe me or understand why, this explains it perfectly.
I agree that lugging your engine is never good. But spinning your engine unnecessary revolutions also increase fuel consumption. That's why many modern cars recommend shifting gears very early. But if you want maximum longevity in your motorcycle it's probably a good idea to at least let it spin to high revs once in a while. A mitsubishi car I owned actually stated in the manual that running it about 10 minutes or more above 3000rpm should be done once in a while to clean out carbon deposits. But riding my MT-09 at a constant 7000 rpm (peak torque) makes it sound like an angry wasp and the sound will eat into your helment in no time. It is quite happy cruising along at 3500rpm as long as you don't lug it up a steep hill.
modern cars have knock sensors... that monitor the detonation and will change the timing to avoid blowing up the engine.
I ride the same bike. That drone at 3500 to 4000 is an ear drum ringer
@@sawyersdad5292yes but older engines also have way lower compression ratios and dont knock as easy. Especially if you run them with modern fuels wich have a higher octane rating than the fuel originally intended by the manufacturer.
Ear plugs
I had a Honda CRX Si.
My friend: “That thing sees redline every day.”
Me: “And…?”
Well Ryan after years of watching your videos, today I finally got to ride a motorcycle for the first time with the 86 Yamaha Radian I rebuilt. Super fun! Keep up the great videos man you and your editors do awesome work. Without this channel I don't see myself ever to have gotten this interested in the hobby!
The Yamaha Radian was a great bike. Yamaha should have kept making them.
To a large degree, it depends on the design of the engine. My CB300R (CRF-based) produced it's torque and power quite high up. Being a typical modern short stroke, it loved being revved. My current Royal Enfield Classic 350 is of an old-school long stroke design. It prefers lower revs and is designed to produce the hp & torque much lower down. Neither bike appreciated being lugged (or laboured). Being of a modern design, using modern materials neither will complain if you occasionally hit the rev limiter. My Classic 350 is sans rev counter, but engine will tell you when it's unhappy.
Ya my RE INT 650 seems to be most at peace in the 3-4k range. There simply isn't much torque after that to be found so riding it any higher than 5k seems pointless.
The Classic 350 is the bike that I always rode at low rpms!! And got SO MANY compliments from strangers on the street. If only it wasn't underpowered AF, I would still have it.
You're right, engines are best driven around peak torque, not max power. Eg T120 3100 rpm.
Just bought 2023 CBR1000RR-R sp. it doesn’t wake up until 8500 rpms. Cruise Ca. freeways in 2nd gear. Thought I was being obnoxious, but you’ve put my mind at ease. It just sounds better up there anyways. Thanks my dude.