UPDATE: The University of Cambridge has just announced that it has passed three amendments to its free speech policy in a landslide victory. Congratulations to Dr Ahmed and his supporters. Read the accompanying article here: unherd.com/thepost/tutor-speaks-out-on-cambridge-free-speech-battle/
Surely the "these ideas are invalidating my existance" line can still be used by under these rules by those indoctrinated into critical threory. They wont stop trying to silence debates they know they can't win.
@Mike Girard I, for one, would love to block the F bomb forever. It takes the place of true words, if it were banned, people might actually have to think, before they speak.
@Mike Girard but some people label anything they do not agree with as fascist and racist, just to shut their opponent up, and that is why we need free speech. Idiots who will be incited to violence, will be violent no matter what is said. You can't stifle truth because someone might not like what you say.
@Aqua Fyre what socialist darkness is that? Or should i just assume that everyone who speaks in theae ways are simly part of a religious movement extremely opposed to socialism and thus communism and the real 'darkness' - atheism. Seeing it everywhere. Hope ive not got is wrong. And apologise if that is the case.
This professor rightly says that the role of a university is to engender the ability to think.... How can we think if we are prevented from hearing someone elses point of view because we might get ' upset'.... These people do not deserve a place at an institution of higher learning. Perhaps a test of EQ would be a better entrance exam than IQ.
There are no institutions of higher learning any more. Only of indoctrination and suppression. The few spirited and enlightened individuals like Dr. Ahmed who attend them carry a torch for liberty and principle that is heavier than the burden carried by St. Christopher, now.
@Lila Green You haven't been paying attention have you? Obviously not. Because it's right there in front of your eyes for all to see. The truth is there dangling right in front of your eyes. And you still don't see it. BLM are disgusting. Racist, Markist assholes. Why would I support them? They are very clear as to want they want? So yeah, the culture war us very real? BLM are just one example. I could go on...
@Lila Green What? Have you actually seen what's been happening across Europe and the Western world in general? People have had police turn up at their doors to 'check' their thinking. Journalists have been jailed in Sweden for saying the wrong thing. Many, including me, have been banned from Facebook and Twitter. Why? Because we don't agree with someone's opinion. Nothing racist, sexist, facist, or bad or evil was said. And yet banned. Different opinion someone didn't like was all. I could go on and on and on.....You think this is good? Because I know free speech is being eroded....??
Dr. Peterson’s actual objection was being compelled to use the pronouns by force of law. He was very clear that he would use the pronouns that seemed appropriate. He simply wanted, rightfully, to have the choice. Compelled speech is the antithesis of free speech.
Yeah, and in an imaginary world, that works. But not in the real world. I mean, you are aware of the last 4 years in the USA. The 'greatest' place on earth...Hhahahahhahahahahh
David Eldred. Camping Wilder Well in that instance the Parents response to Jordan Peterson would be.....Hmmm there is something not quite right with our son, he does not use that language with us and would then want to discover what is the matter with their son who has always loved and respected them and had never spoken to them in that manner.
@@davideldred.campingwilder6481 there's no end to what can and can't be said, look at today words that were perfectly fine to used 20 years ago is outlawed now, and what you think is perfectly reasonable to be said now, will in 10 years be racist. You either have free speech or it doesn't exist, you can't have both censorship or free speech.
@@thewatcheronthewall85 From my personal exprience. We used to whisper the word (wog) in pubs. And we were the mild ones. Hearing that, someone that over heard us, would have us down as a group of rascists. But, we 'weren't' because there were no Wogs present. Now, getting to your point. We would all sometimes say...'Well, WOG means Western Oriental Gentleman' (and it did) however, it was then turned into a derogatory term because (I think) some designer designed the 'Golly Wog' and it was as Black as Coal and looked like a Southern African from Alabama...Only two years ago a Top Tory Woman in the UK referred to he throwing her Golly Wog out of her pram. She, no doubt was referring to a Toy. Or was she trying in incite racial hatred? I'll wager you this. The 0.000001% of UK's blacks that are rich, affluent, popular or in Politics will have PUBLICALLY shrugged this off as nonsense. BUT the other 99.9999% of Black people (Not Chinese or Indian, Afghan, etc) because NOW a WOG is a Black person and they are just as rasist as British Whites because they don't want to be associated with 'Lazy, Black, dope smoking, etc) So, it's not really that simple I think. And even the word (TORY) is short term and accepted as being a Conservative and in a inherently conservative country in the majority they (LAUGH) at it. So, I still think that you should curtail your language. It's the way it is. You can't offend people. It causes very bad karma...
@@davideldred.campingwilder6481 Speech is an inalienable right and no one has the authority to control the words you do and do not say, else theyd control you!
Crispin Odey kicked the oak door in at No.10 with the loudest of bangs, "Johnson" he boomed "I want my fucking investment in you paying back" he walked over to the desk with a powerful stride, dragging Mark Francois along by the ear, "Make sure that deal fails tomorrow or I'll rip your balls off one at a time with my bare hands and stuff them down this idiots throat" he let go of the quivering Francois, then with an almighty lunge, slapped Francois across the back of his head so hard that his eyeballs popped out and stuck to the inside of his glasses.
Very unfunny one. Universities should be a place where an idea ern its respect through scientific debate and experiments rather then by rules of administration.
But I see no reason to respect or tolerate people who want to promote ideas which are outright wrong Without tolerance and respect for Donald Trumps idiotic utterances the world would not have had all the trouble with it has with him being the President. Nearly 300 thousand Americans may also be alive. He shouldn’t have been given the free publicity he was given prior to his election.
@@paulsmit1482 there are some universal truths that every one knows. You do not set out to deliberately harm someone. It’s not my opinion that that is wrong, it is a universal truth and morally correct. For example When Trump deliberately sets out to deliberately harm others for his own benefit it is right to condemn that. Under no circumstances is it right to not speak out against that or you become complicit by your silence. It is not right if you know Trump is going to deliberately harm someone and not speak out to tolerate the harm he will do. Apply this right across the board , it is not right to tolerate and respect the trainers for suicide bombers. They are intending to deliberately harm someone. You need to condemn them utterly. Or the mother who drove her son with a gun across country intending to kill someone. Her views deserve no respect or tolerance.she must be condemned outright.
This is sort of a riot! I endured years of this abuse as a Christian studying Biology at university in the 90’s. The abuse was by the professors, in front of the class! 😏 Didn’t kill me although it was often unpleasant. They said what they believed, even mockingly. But, I dealt with it and got along with my degree and my faith. I found plenty to admire in these people who deeply disagreed with my beliefs.
These kids are the most privileged group of individuals to have ever lived yet they are determined to be victims. It's embarrassing Edit Some worked very hard to be there and fair play to them.
As a Philosophy undergrad at Cambridge, I promise we are not all determined to be victims. The ones who oppose this motion also aren't doing it on their own behalf, but are hoping to protect actual victims from discrimination. Generally though the philosophy students here are very pro-free speech; one of our set texts is Mill's On Liberty
@Enigma MKProblem is that the trans-activists have illustrated for all to see the violence and negative sanctions for those who don't swallow their argument wholesale. If someone in the shadows is pointing a gun at me it isn't really a matter of how courteous I am...It's more a measure of how willing I am to act honestly in view of the perceived threat.
@Lila Green or perhaps you don't tolerate anyone questioning gender fluidity, which came to the fore after the education of small children, on line pressure groups and art world campaigns. All three of which are social constructs.
@Enigma MK Well, I have listened to JP a lot, and I do recall that he does call people what they request, when they ask him to do so? So when he meets someone who wants to identify as male, regardless of their biology, he does so by calling them the pronoun they desire. He just will not say that just because they call themselves a male , the biology of them is changed. Seems like he has said this multiple times. But I am old so my memory could be faulty. Do you have a particular video where he says he will not do so? Just curious! Thanks!
@Enigma MK Thanks for reply! Yes, that is me too. Totally respect whatever preference a person has to identify themselves as far as pronouns go. But I do not think the biology is trumped by social preferences. Science is science. Funny to me that the left screams 'science' then ignores this very basic science :)
@Lila Green that right there is your problem. You state "oh please we all know" you do realise when you say shit like that, that there will be some people thinking, she thinks she knows everything. Unless you have god like powers, you dont know what everyone knows. You should try and watch more peterson but as we all know, you would only be better informed but non the wiser.
@@andreealautaru7661 Who decides what's best for society? This wasn't arrived at by consensus, no one asked how I feel. I think stifling free speech is a dreadful idea and anyone not brainwashed would agree.
Peterson's views deserve no respect because they tend toward right-wing extremism and furthermore, he is too much the coward to admit his real positions. Extremism, either Left or Right needs to be disavowed. And, as per this segment, it universities role in society is to seek truth, then, by definition, this betters society and hence, is political. As history proves: "The tolerance of intolerance always leads to the triumph of the latter."
It's no failure. It's quite legitimate. The proof of 1 + 1 = 2 in university pure maths takes around 2 pages, if I recall correctly. One of the main functions of university is to make you question very critically what you learned from your parents, church, kindergarten and school.
@@ottosump3356 Russian saying: "laughter without cause, that's a sign of stupidity". That's you, baby! (I'd write the Russian original, but I doubt you can read that language). As I showed above, that critical questioning is not confined to the humanities. General relativity and quantum mechanics, as well as much of probability theory and pure maths, defy and contradict "common" "sense" and "human nature".
Arthur Kaletzky You think you are smart , but you are actually dumb ,a lot of you so self proclaimed intellectual types are like that . Your idiotic comment proves that point . Btw why the hell would I waste my time to learn Russian ? .
Being polite to others by letting them voice their opinion is one thing, respecting their wrong opinions is something else. No one should be forced to respect an opinion that is wrong.
Well, you say that, but a lot of people actually don't respond in kind and just feel they can take advantage and make stupid arguments to give the appearance of "winning"
I don’t think this way. For me, personally, you start at 100% and the words, actions, and intent of the other person determines if that mutual respect stays at 100, or it falls from there. Each person should offer respect at first meet.
I'll just state for the record, Jordan Peterson has made it clear he is more than happy to use 'personal pronouns' that Trans people want him to use, his problem is with 'authorities' trying to compel him to use them. His problem is legally compelled speech, not Trans people or their pronouns. They just provided a case example of attempted punative authoritarian control of speech.
He has stated that very publicly and very clearly over and over and over. It's literally beyond belief that educated people can so badly misunderstand him. I use peoples opinion of Jordan Peterson as a shorthand for their personality profile. I don't agree with everything he says, (and frankly it would be weird to agree with 100% of what anybody says all the time) but to say that he is dangerous or an extremist means you either haven't listened to him, so I know you are prone to making emotional judgements that are not based on real evidence, or you are so emotionally crippled that you refuse to see the facts in front of you and choose to pursue your own narrative. Either would mean we would not get along because I'm an extremely objective person and don't handle emotional irrationality very well.
Jordan Peterson is the biggest idiot grifter on the planet. Addicted to drugs and he thinks he can give advice to others. He's off the wall and just says shit for notice. A flake if ever I saw one. His lectures are a laugh a minute - unintentionally.
'respect' to me contours up mafia and ho..r killings. Personally I'd be happy to see the end of the word. Maybe we could use 'courtesy' or 'consideration' instead?
Having respect, from within, and conducting oneself in a respectful manner, are two different things. Another, very familiar word for that latter is, simply, 'courtesy;. That is all that is needed.
For the record, Jordan Peterson has never said anything untoward about transexuals, transexuality, or about the universe of preferred pronouns. He strongly rejected the Canadian law that compells the use of those pronouns. His point is that never before in the history of English law has certain speech been compelled. Certain speech is forbidden by law (slander, fomenting violence, etc.), and Peterson takes no issue with those proscriptions. But, again, his sole position on transexual-preferred pronouns has nothing whatsoever to do with transexuals or preferred pronouns, but rather about state-compelled language. Even within this thoughtful video, which rightly advocates tolerance as being a central virtue in places of learning, we find an example of what can happen to truth when the Victorian Left gets its way.
Here's a bit (some bits, actually) of possible casuistry: no-one prohibited Peterson from avoiding the use of any pronouns. He's obviously a competent speaker and writer, he can do so easily. What he was prohibited from was using pronouns the objects of which would likely have found that usage offensive and even hateful. So one could argue that the prohibition was as valid as that of hate speech.
To reiterate, Peterson was NOT taking issue with prohibited speech. He has made clear that some types of speech have been prohibited throughout western history. His position was and remains in opposition to compelled speech. At no time in the history of English Law has the state ever compelled citizens to use certain words. Compelled speech is not the same thing as forbidden speech
@@SKOLAH It wasn't obvious to me, I'm trying to improve clarity. Once it's clear I can accept it or agrue against it effectively. I'm used to getting accusations like yours, claims of mansplaining or strawman making.
Respect is earned. And it is earned by behaviour, not by the 'identity' (demographic/ religion etc) of any particular person. If I can grasp this, far more intelligent academics at Cambridge can! Which suggests to me there is a political agenda behind this madness. Great guest, thank you for getting him on!
I think much of this debate is that people use the word "respect" for two different things: there is universal respect, which is given unconditionally on the basis that all conscious beings are inherently valuable (this is the "I will defend to the death your right to say it" bit). But there is also conventional respect which is earned, conditional upon one's views and behaviors aligning with argued/agreed upon conventions of morality and truth. The issue with activists' is that they wish us to respect everyone in the latter sense, whether or not their views/behaviors adhere to any standard of truth or ethos, and really this amounts to a respect of low-expectations which is, in fact, deeply insulting and ultimately dehumanizing. For example, not demanding the opinion's of a black person to adhere to a certain standard, I thus demand nothing of him, thus he does not grow for lack of demands upon him, and thus while appearing to respect him in actuality I assure I am always in a position of superiority above him. THIS seems far more racist than simply being "disrespectful" in the short term
I disagree with your political agenda comment, I would say politicians haven't addressed the issue because they are probably scared of being singled out, you only need to look at all the attacks J.K Rowling has been getting on twitter. To me it seems an organised minority is preaching about their ideals and imposing their thoughts and believes in others. Should you disagree, well, get ready to be ganged up by said group and possibly lose your job. Sounds a bit like a cult to be honest. The genders for me are Male and Female, last time I checked, we are not amphibians that change sex depending on climate, temperature, etc, maybe evolution will correct me at some point, happy to wait, until then my point stands. Though I do have sympathy for their struggles, I think that everyone needs to tolerate others way of life and ideals, there are some exceptions but on the whole I think live and let live is a good mantra to go by.
@@diexterdiggs3027 you're basically agreeing with him my dear chap. Not sure why you don't agree with his "politicised" opinion?? It's simply a logical one agreeing with your own.
“I’m sure the intentions behind it were genuinely good, I have no reason to doubt that”. WRONG!!! This is the biggest mistake of the rational. If you understand their postmodern philosophy and beliefs, then you know that they are not good intentions, as we describe “good”. They are anti-freedom and anti-truth. Progressivism by its nature shifts the moral and ethical paradigm further and further to the point of complete insanity, while attempting to declare that what is real is manufactured by man. It’s not only dangerous, it’s evil in the damage that it does. Force is the byproduct of lack of self control, fear and hate and causes division. Choice is the byproduct of love and allows sacrifice. We regressed into animals. “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools”
Considering this is even a discussion within one of the supposed top universities in the country it’s clear common sense is slowly but surely going to be non existent in future generations, perfect for obeying orders and following rules with zero questioning of said order or rule.
Enjoyed this, thank you. The consumer issue of studenthood raised by Dr Ahmed is also a big issue few talk about in academia. It's changed the whole culture of universities in my opinion and not for the better...
@@underscoreellipsesdothyphe1563 I am the person who determines whom I respect. No one else makes that decision for me. I am sorry if that comes as a disappointment to you. Whom others respect is entirely their decision. And I in turn am fully entitled to disrespect those decisions they make.
@@HowardARoark I assure you there's no disappointment here because I don't "respect" you.. so.. have a nice day...? Lol.. might want to leave your ego at the door though lol
@@underscoreellipsesdothyphe1563 Well that's a relief to hear. The last thing I want is the respect of random twits on RUclips who run round making inane comments.
The precise point of tolerance is that it doesn't require anyone to like or respect anyone else for society to function smoothly. Civilized, diverse democracies require tolerance , totalitarian states require and enforce respect.
There is a world of difference between exposing students to different viewpoints and challenging their intellectual, political and moral worldview and condoning the abuse and endangerment of individual students. The first is what is to be expected and universities are not doing their "customers" a service by coddling them and banning any such challenges to their worldview on the basis that such intellectual challenges constitute abuse or danger to them.
-never cared: -I never cared if you were “gay” -until you started shoving it in my face, and the faces of my children. -I never cared what color you were, until you started blaming my race for your problems. -I never cared about your political affiliation until you started to condemn me for mine. -I never cared where you were born until you wanted to erase my history and blame my ancestors for your current problems. -I never cared if you were well-off or poor, until you said you were discriminated against, when I was promoted because I worked harder. -I never cared if your beliefs were different from mine, until you said my beliefs were wrong. -NOW I CARE! -My patience and tolerance are gone. -I’m not alone in feeling this way, there are millions of us who do...... and we have had enough! -Anonymous -copy and paste all over the internet
Can I ask, in what way is "gay" shoved in your face? I see that said a lot, and I genuinely don't understand what is meant by it...? Is the issue visibility?
@@jackward9901 - the issue is flaunting sexuality in pride parades that expose children to overly sexualized idiots with their Wangers dangling humping one another etc etc etc - this is a affront to those who wish to raises their children without being dragged into their sexual preference issue in the public arena. I will accept your decisions in your life but you fuck with children - their minds or anything that causes them damage and the gloves are off - I do not believe in violence - but don’t fuck with the children or there will be consequences you don’t like.
Yes respect is something that has to be earned. Not to say that treating anyone badly is acceptable. I can tolerate certain things but I find othe er things intolerable and should have the right to say so. Some people just want everyone to agree with them and that's totalitarianism.
Two underreported factors behind this trend: 1) Academia self-selects for Left leaning people who are avoiding a market based work culture. Once you have a critical mass of them, they’ll naturally implement silencing tactics against their political opponents. 2) Social media has allowed everyone to voice their opinion. This is the good part. On the negative side, it allows fringe minority elements to noisily shut down the much larger reasonable majority.
@Lila Green why does it matter? If you've watched enough of him you'll know exactly what I mean it happens every time he talks. Or do you mean which topic do I personally believe needs mentioning most? If you haven't then watch some more and actually understand with logic. Or Are you just here to slander peterson and now me aswell?
No I'm not. I made a comment that happens all the time. I believe in questioning everything including peterson. But there seems to a big agenda against him and anyone who listens. Like I said I question everything. I never said he's a victim, I also never said he deserves more respect than anyone else including yourself. I can't work out where I've slandered anyone either. I also never said I wouldn't debate it, but as you can see from my 'baseless remark' you might be able to work out I didn't come here for that. So go on then if that's what you'd like to do, you start and finish a debate on petersons observations. And I'm going to assume by the way you've introduced yourself to me that you're replies will be typically full of ad hominems. Hopefully not the case.
@Lila Green so are yours as I haven't fed you any ammo to fire back with. There are things I'd say I disagree with him in aswell if you must know. And like I said in my last message I never said he was victim. So I've literally no idea what you're point in being here is other than to create an argument in which I will not engage. Have a great day!
A few points - Shouldn’t Jordan Peterson have been respected and or tolerated? everyone should be tolerated? -Jordan Peterson was only opposed to the “forced use” of pronoun usage not the pronouns themselves. That distinction is huge. -how and who chooses what should be respected and or tolerated? Anyone can take offense to anything.
This is what happens when you teach people ‘what to think’ instead of ‘how to think’. Give the students challenges and resources and they will have respect, instead of just repeating what they’ve heard without understanding the consequences.
..."so long as it's legal" is these days not much cover, given the prosecutions under the communications act and the push for ever tighter 'hate speech' legislation and interpretations.
Many years ago, when I was hired at the medical center of a large state university in the US as an assistant professor I was presented with a document to sign accepting the position. In the document was a statement that I would never participant, support, or agree to any activity that was directed to the overthrow of the university or government. I crossed it out, initialed my strike, and signed the document. Nothing ever came of that. It seemed very strange to me at the time.
thank you for the well conducted interview and for bringing this to light. Its inspiring to see people thinking ideas and actions through, as best they can.
Hats off to Dr Ahmed! Thank God for your commitment to academic freedom. I am disgusted by the Master of Gonville and Caius, who has shamefully removed the Fisher window after the Gate of Honour was vandalised. Absolutely craven. It feels like we are reliving the demolition of the 'Four Olds' in the Cultural Revolution. We live in dangerous times. Academics like Dr Ahmed are a bulwark of restraint against the contemporary Red Guards.
There was a time when Universities were considered a veritable melting pot of ideas and opinions. A lot of the world's great innovations and breakthroughs have come out of this. Nowadays, sadly, they seem to be like little outposts of North Korea. Jordan Peterson is guilty of nothing more than expressing sound, well considered, professionally based opinions - he is a hero of our times.
I was free from the censorship education when I left university. The workplace is now fully infected in my opinion... my big corporate workplace has now been attempting to re-educate us on this inclusivity and diversity stuff, it’s really depressing and makes working there less enjoyable, and we perform worse in our jobs. They’re “training” has made us less productive, as apparently the most important thing about being a good salesperson, is to recognise your biases, admit that your are inherently racist and bigoted and so on and so forth.... blows my mind that serious people can’t see the danger of what they are peddling. Thank you for your content UnHerd.
It's a blatant anti-white agenda. Those that agree with it either hate white people for their own reasons or they have been indoctrinated to believe that white people are the oppressive upper class that ought to be knocked back down. There is a global ruling class and "priest" class that has become far too powerful, and they believe that regular white folks are their biggest roadblock.
This is useful in explaining the downward spiral of diversity training newdiscourses.com/2020/11/why-your-organization-should-not-do-diversity-training/
The marketization of education is something The Economist also pointed out sometime ago.It produces swathes of diploma holders with no real value for the economy and society which then turns them into disgruntled people blaming the "system" for their own wrong choices.
15:00 Interviewer's language is quite revealing: "Pupils" and university "teaching what is _true_ ". They are called students and universities are places supposed to EXPLORE knowledge. The only hard science is mathematics (and even there ....), there are disagreements in the field of physics, chemistry, biology, never mind the social sciences (like economics). So how are universities are supposed to teach what is "true" ? Part of the package you get at an university is teaching of those who have an advantage in knowledge, but the students (not pupils) are supposed to think for themselves. Ideally an 18 year old should be already able and eager to do that, but the pupuls are usually spoon fed with whatever counts for knowledge and education and there is no time to let them think or develop the reasoning for themselves. Delivering rehearsed facts counts for eduction, part of it is what is idolized as educations (facts over abilities - the latter are much harder to grade, would also be a challenge for future employers to classify them and to discard). and part of it is that it is of course not a desire of those in power (and the part of the population that benefits from the status quo) to have a population that thinks independently.
As a 70yo male, it seems to me, and I talk about it most days with a variety of people and ages, that the vast majority of áverage´people do not support the woke brigade and identitarians, but feel no one wants to listen to them so they say nothing! It must also be said that huge numbers of these same ´everyday folk´ do not follow the debates and discussions on such issues which also makes them feel ill equiped to argue-discuss the issues openly.....the ´silent majority´ certainly does exist in my view.
Agree. In Canada our Prime Minister- who has three ethics violations & numerous lies to his credit- wishes to dictate what is acceptable for citizens to say. Trudeau covers this stance with deceit& circuitous reasoning. He said: "We will always defend freedom of expression, but freedom of expression is not without limits." Anthony Furey in the Toronto Sun responds: 'Free speech that excludes those things deemed by the likes of Trudeau to be arbitrary or unnecessary isn't free speech AT ALL. Trudeau appeared to defend the murder by decapitation of a school teacher in France- and did not support Macron. This is the slippery slope of 'lockdown' speech & restricted thought. *Entire countries are bludgeoned into silence. https;//torontosun.com/opinion/colomnists/furey-macrons-defending-free
How about allowing ALL speech and letting the chips fall where they may. If you are sufficiently detestable in your utterances, you will make yourself and your message a pariah all of your own doing. If your message is backed by wisdom, truth, and merit, it will stand on its own.
"When you tear out a mans tongue you are not proving him a liar; you are only telling the world that you fear what he might say" - Tyrion Lannister There is a massive difference between respect and tolerance. I can tolerate many things but I do not think that I should be forced to respect views I disagree with. I should not be forced to respect white nationalists, for example, but I can be tolerant of them.
Also tired of being told what to do and what to think. It's ridiculous to have swung so far the other way from abuse and racist etc talk being acceptable to every published/expressed thought being policed.
Universities are funded by the oil businesses ie Carnegie and Rockefeller. Klaus Scwabe and Rubenstien et al. Spell it out please anyone watching this will know who
They should have the freedom to spend their time as they see fit and freedom to say what they like, surely? Why are you trying to tell people what to do? Do you only believe in freedom when it's for people who you agree with?
@@amethystlarktree5962 You seem to have missed the point. They are there to give education, not to tell them how to think. Their thought processes are their own, and not to be trained with other peoples opinions.
@@oldunpastit IMO you've contradicted yourself. Education, particularly in an HEI, is about teaching students how to think and it should be capable of changing their culture very radically. That's particularly true of Ahmed's field, philosophy. Education is NOT military or other training. In most ways, it's the exact opposite.
@@oldunpastit One of the first consequences of thinking for themselves will probably be rigorous criticism of cultures, particularly ones they have most experienced: those in which they were brought up and schooled and those which dominate the environs of their HEI. "Minding their own damn business culture-wise" is the very antithesis of that: the first targets are likely to be their nation-state (particularly its military and other organs of state violence) and their family.
As far as I am aware, there is no right to freedom of speech in the U.K. You can’t just say what you want when you want to. And it works both ways. If you voice your opinion you must be open to defend it.
Well said Dr.Arif Ahmed. All this really does matter to society at large. This madness that is #CT, #CRT, #CulturalMarxism, espoused by Robin DiAngelo, KImberle Crenshaw has to be pushed back.
@@billmarsh1971 Touche! I'm a person who rarely gets offended, not because everybody loves me, but because there is but a few people who's opinion I respect. You can only offend me if I take you as an honest, reliable and intelligent person. And I think it is vice-versa, why would somebody be offended by my opinion, if he/she has even no clue who I am.
@@MacakPodSIjemom exactly. I've heard many opinions, beliefs and views that are contrary to my own. Some have given me food for thought and even changed my thinking on a subject due to factual points I hadn't known or considered. We seem to have entered very murky territory with the cancel culture of recent years.
Don't they teach , deontology at universities anymore ? Universities are places for debates , knowledge , challenges and future generations that can leadership . He was wrong in saying that universities is not to place to debates ...
Given the shocking and unacceptable treatment Cambridge (or part of it) accorded Canadian intellectual Jordan Peterson, people should be concerned about speech codes. The speaker is correct and there is reason to be concerned in many countries. In Ontario Canada the Law Society in 2017, tried to bring in forced statements for all lawyers requiring them to support ‘inclusivity’ and ‘equality’ in the abstract and many members of the Law Society pushed back, some 20 Benchers were voted out by a slate opposed to the policy and the policy was reversed. The new speech guardians are a menace who need to be resisted. Their claims for justice and fairness need to be unmasked. Cambridge (One of my alma maters) needs to follow the Ontario Law Society (one of my Law Societies). The language of “comfort” and “safety” is now regularly co~opted to truncate the scope of discussion, analysis , debate and disagreement; as such open education and personal liberty are under direct threat.
It’s all such hoppycock! We shouldn’t even be having these conversations about what we can or cannot say. What a BS society we currently are living 🤦🏽♂️
As a ten year old pupil at a brand new* school in Enniskillen in Co Fermanagh I was given detention over the break when I said "God does not exist". 67 years on, I would be liable to be sacked by some Cambridge academics if I said "Trans women are actually men". * brand new in that I had suddenly moved from a bog standard state primary in grey, bombed out London to a Protestant junior boarding school among the green fields and sparkling lakes of Co Fermanagh. What is 'unsayable' varies in time and geography.
Yes, Catholic raised Aussie (Irish heritage here). And what they do not realise is how quickly what they say today, may be what is banned tomorrow. They a poking a very big bear. (Bear = The majority, no politics intended, bear does not mean russia)
I doubt you'd be sacked. You'd be asked what is your denotation of the word "men", and if you tried to revert to what that word denotated 50 years ago, your views would be attacked - and rightly so. What with advances in biology, the words "men" and "women" have become bloody hard to define.
The problem is fundamentally spiritual. Having abandoned God, who offers redemption in Christ, people are looking for a way to assuage their sense of personal guilt. They have created a new religion of political correctness, and a new Pharisee class, the social justice warriors. Not far removed from Mao's red guard.
The Jordan Peterson example is incorrect. The trans issue was an example of how Bill C-16 in Canada could have been applied, in that Peterson argued that it would force him, under law, to use particular pronouns demanded by a trans person. In other words, compelled speech. He took the view that the determination as to what pronouns he would use to address someone is entirely up to him.
The path to evil is pathed in good intentions. An example of this issue with easily hurt snowflakes, my daughter makes a joke at shcool, she is 10, one boy decides it's racist, ( it wasn't) and the shcool know this as well, but the problem with this is that the shcool still decided to educate as they put it, my daughter by saying we know you were not racist or meant any harm, but you have to be careful what you say as it may hurt some people, so rather than teaching this ignorant child what racism really is, they teach good children to just not talk, just incase you hurt someones feelings. This is insane..
@@annatmarshall5133 Exactly! Education is about being exposed to new people, new ideas, new obsessions, new bêtes noires and yes, new angst. You don't get that at home. This has always been my argument against homeschooling, and of course it is also my argument against making universities "feel like home."
who on the right is criticising individual liberty? i see myself on the right but i don't see that. Completely appreciate that i could be living in an echo chamber but i'd genuinely like to challenge people of my own persuasion around why they don't leave people to be themselves.
@@MatthewJohnFaunce I'd agree that's unacceptable behaviour - i'm from the uk and there's been a history here of suppressing Welsh/Scottish/Cornish etc culture, arguably the result of an English colonialist attitude, however i don't see anyone from the right defending that today. I think i'd grant that the culture wars have been won by the left but to my mind that's had the effect of the right being far more robust and precise on it's position and and some on the left going mad and not knowing where to stop.
It is so sad that it has to be explained. Everybody says they are for peace, love and diversity. They forgot to add how they mean it: first, everybody have to think the same way.
I think it is also emotional intelligence. Some people are virtue signaling without understanding what freedom of speech means and when it is not ok to police others to protect your feelings threatened by an other view. They can't recognize that what they are feeling is threat to their ego, challenge to their thinking and they have no right to feeling unchallenged.
There is no reason to adjust anything. The only speech that is criminal in any sense is speech that is directly and clearly part of a criminal act. In my country we have people singing 'kill the boer' on the regular. That's me, I'm the boer. And they do kill us. Nonetheless his speech is protected as it should be (though other forms of less controversial speech is not but that's another issue). Unless it's a direct and specific call to violence or crime and is essential to the execution of this act then you get to say whatever the hell you want, no matter how abhorrent. Man up people of the West, this is our core value. If we let this be compromised we will lose everything. It's a binary issue. There's no middle ground.
Restricted is the opposite of free. If you place your feelings in the hands of others by trying to make them not hurt or offend you then you are also not free.
Jordan Peterson was never disrespectful to any trans people, it was the compelled speech law that the Canadian government were trying to pass that he fought against. I genuinely cant think of any reason why a university would not want him to visit.
UPDATE: The University of Cambridge has just announced that it has passed three amendments to its free speech policy in a landslide victory. Congratulations to Dr Ahmed and his supporters.
Read the accompanying article here: unherd.com/thepost/tutor-speaks-out-on-cambridge-free-speech-battle/
I think you ought to update the article too ;)
Great news anyway!
If you can’t speak freely you’re simply not free!
Surely the "these ideas are invalidating my existance" line can still be used by under these rules by those indoctrinated into critical threory. They wont stop trying to silence debates they know they can't win.
1q
@@humanhusbandry5508 what is husbandry?
One must always ask the question: What do you fear from hearing a viewpoint you don't agree with?
Spontaneous combustion!? ........
@Mike Girard I, for one, would love to block the F bomb forever. It takes the place of true words, if it were banned, people might actually have to think, before they speak.
@Mike Girard and how about being a bit less free with your nasty insults and profanities. They are a real turn off.
@Mike Girard you seem a bit upset.
@Mike Girard but some people label anything they do not agree with as fascist and racist, just to shut their opponent up, and that is why we need free speech. Idiots who will be incited to violence, will be violent no matter what is said. You can't stifle truth because someone might not like what you say.
Make no mistake, this is a fight for our civilization.
What is 'this'?
@@barbthegreat586 'this' is free speech.
@Aqua Fyre what socialist darkness is that?
Or should i just assume that everyone who speaks in theae ways are simly part of a religious movement extremely opposed to socialism and thus communism and the real 'darkness' - atheism.
Seeing it everywhere. Hope ive not got is wrong. And apologise if that is the case.
Agreed. Their will be no victory without a fight.
Ddrt1554 Addh6 Absolutely. Free speech is literally the most important thing in the world. Everything in society, world, changes once this is lost.
This professor rightly says that the role of a university is to engender the ability to think.... How can we think if we are prevented from hearing someone elses point of view because we might get ' upset'.... These people do not deserve a place at an institution of higher learning. Perhaps a test of EQ would be a better entrance exam than IQ.
There are no institutions of higher learning any more. Only of indoctrination and suppression. The few spirited and enlightened individuals like Dr. Ahmed who attend them carry a torch for liberty and principle that is heavier than the burden carried by St. Christopher, now.
Bro....its YOUR JOB to elevate yourself....not someone else's.....
Oh God! The best comment on RUclips I have ever heard.Bravo.Totally agree.
Freedom of speech and opinion must be protected. About time debate was robust again, not PC!
Strong intellectuals don’t need special protection. If you need protection from Jordan Peterson, you are feeble minded. Buck up! Love
@@whatmatters4990 I think you got the wrong end of the stick she was saying it should not be restricted in any way
@Lila Green Many are. And it's only getting worse from what I can see. Not sure you understand the implications or message here?
@Lila Green You haven't been paying attention have you? Obviously not. Because it's right there in front of your eyes for all to see. The truth is there dangling right in front of your eyes. And you still don't see it. BLM are disgusting. Racist, Markist assholes. Why would I support them? They are very clear as to want they want? So yeah, the culture war us very real? BLM are just one example. I could go on...
@Lila Green What? Have you actually seen what's been happening across Europe and the Western world in general? People have had police turn up at their doors to 'check' their thinking. Journalists have been jailed in Sweden for saying the wrong thing. Many, including me, have been banned from Facebook and Twitter. Why? Because we don't agree with someone's opinion. Nothing racist, sexist, facist, or bad or evil was said. And yet banned. Different opinion someone didn't like was all. I could go on and on and on.....You think this is good? Because I know free speech is being eroded....??
Dr. Peterson’s actual objection was being compelled to use the pronouns by force of law. He was very clear that he would use the pronouns that seemed appropriate. He simply wanted, rightfully, to have the choice. Compelled speech is the antithesis of free speech.
Exactly! It was COMPELLED speech that he was against. And had the support of many in the trans community
Yeah, and in an imaginary world, that works. But not in the real world. I mean, you are aware of the last 4 years in the USA. The 'greatest' place on earth...Hhahahahhahahahahh
@Salvatore Gravano
The misrepresentation is always deliberate.
Okay, instead of telling your parents to be quiet. Tell them to Fuck Up. 'See where that gets you?' Jordan Peterson...
David Eldred. Camping Wilder
Well in that instance the Parents response to Jordan Peterson would be.....Hmmm there is something not quite right with our son, he does not use that language with us and would then want to discover what is the matter with their son who has always loved and respected them and had never spoken to them in that manner.
Free Speech is not a privilege it’s a right. Discernment is a gift, don’t waste it. Anyone who says free speech should be governed is fascist.
I think it should be governed, but I'm not a fascist. I don't understand you. Well, I do actually, but please enlighten me...
@@davideldred.campingwilder6481 there's no end to what can and can't be said, look at today words that were perfectly fine to used 20 years ago is outlawed now, and what you think is perfectly reasonable to be said now, will in 10 years be racist. You either have free speech or it doesn't exist, you can't have both censorship or free speech.
@@thewatcheronthewall85 From my personal exprience. We used to whisper the word (wog) in pubs. And we were the mild ones. Hearing that, someone that over heard us, would have us down as a group of rascists. But, we 'weren't' because there were no Wogs present. Now, getting to your point. We would all sometimes say...'Well, WOG means Western Oriental Gentleman' (and it did) however, it was then turned into a derogatory term because (I think) some designer designed the 'Golly Wog' and it was as Black as Coal and looked like a Southern African from Alabama...Only two years ago a Top Tory Woman in the UK referred to he throwing her Golly Wog out of her pram. She, no doubt was referring to a Toy. Or was she trying in incite racial hatred? I'll wager you this. The 0.000001% of UK's blacks that are rich, affluent, popular or in Politics will have PUBLICALLY shrugged this off as nonsense. BUT the other 99.9999% of Black people (Not Chinese or Indian, Afghan, etc) because NOW a WOG is a Black person and they are just as rasist as British Whites because they don't want to be associated with 'Lazy, Black, dope smoking, etc) So, it's not really that simple I think. And even the word (TORY) is short term and accepted as being a Conservative and in a inherently conservative country in the majority they (LAUGH) at it. So, I still think that you should curtail your language. It's the way it is. You can't offend people. It causes very bad karma...
@@davideldred.campingwilder6481 if you govern free speech then how do you know whos good and whos bad?????....free speech lets you speak your mind.
@@davideldred.campingwilder6481 Speech is an inalienable right and no one has the authority to control the words you do and do not say, else theyd control you!
What a joke these universities are becoming.
Crispin Odey kicked the oak door in at No.10 with the loudest of bangs, "Johnson" he boomed "I want my fucking investment in you paying back" he walked over to the desk with a powerful stride, dragging Mark Francois along by the ear, "Make sure that deal fails tomorrow or I'll rip your balls off one at a time with my bare hands and stuff them down this idiots throat" he let go of the quivering Francois, then with an almighty lunge, slapped Francois across the back of his head so hard that his eyeballs popped out and stuck to the inside of his glasses.
Very unfunny one. Universities should be a place where an idea ern its respect through scientific debate and experiments rather then by rules of administration.
Woke joke.
I was taught respect is earned not demanded . Tolerance is not being offended by someone else's opinion .
But I see no reason to respect or tolerate people who want to promote ideas which are outright wrong
Without tolerance and respect for Donald Trumps idiotic utterances the world would not have had all the trouble with it has with him being the President.
Nearly 300 thousand Americans may also be alive. He shouldn’t have been given the free publicity he was given prior to his election.
Diane, you are the pot calling the kettle black.
@@paulsmit1482 there are some universal truths that every one knows. You do not set out to deliberately harm someone.
It’s not my opinion that that is wrong, it is a universal truth and morally correct. For example When Trump deliberately sets out to deliberately harm others for his own benefit it is right to condemn that. Under no circumstances is it right to not speak out against that or you become complicit by your silence. It is not right if you know Trump is going to deliberately harm someone and not speak out to tolerate the harm he will do.
Apply this right across the board , it is not right to tolerate and respect the trainers for suicide bombers. They are intending to deliberately harm someone. You need to condemn them utterly.
Or the mother who drove her son with a gun across country intending to kill someone. Her views deserve no respect or tolerance.she must be condemned outright.
diane shelton Just get your TDS sorted .
Even if they preach paodophilia?
We all have to respect and tolerate until its something the woke don't like then its a hate crime.........
Well said.
@@johnneville403 Don't force me to respect your views bc doing that shows that you don't respect me.
They are the last people to tolerate even though they started out begging for toleration of their habits.
This is sort of a riot! I endured years of this abuse as a Christian studying Biology at university in the 90’s. The abuse was by the professors, in front of the class! 😏 Didn’t kill me although it was often unpleasant. They said what they believed, even mockingly. But, I dealt with it and got along with my degree and my faith. I found plenty to admire in these people who deeply disagreed with my beliefs.
Define abuse.
@@suvariboyShe said they were openly mocking her. So by abuse she meant mocking, being rude, trying to embarrass her, belittling ger beliefs, etc.
These kids are the most privileged group of individuals to have ever lived yet they are determined to be victims. It's embarrassing
Edit
Some worked very hard to be there and fair play to them.
They are what we made them?
They are what the media tells them to be !
Actually, what I have undestood, Cambridge teaching is full of propaganda, grooming the so called elite.
As a Philosophy undergrad at Cambridge, I promise we are not all determined to be victims. The ones who oppose this motion also aren't doing it on their own behalf, but are hoping to protect actual victims from discrimination. Generally though the philosophy students here are very pro-free speech; one of our set texts is Mill's On Liberty
@@joefennell6220 Are you determined to be elite? And tell others they are wrong?
Respect must be earned.
What they want is submission.
Well said!
YES! They don't want to be challenged, don't want to listen and consider other angles. They want what they want, others just have to submit to it.
@Lila Green don't be ridiculous.
Exactly.
@Lila Green are you calling me a 'right wing extremist' now? Hilarious!
Peterson’s issue was compelled speech not Trans people.
@Enigma MKProblem is that the trans-activists have illustrated for all to see the violence and negative sanctions for those who don't swallow their argument wholesale. If someone in the shadows is pointing a gun at me it isn't really a matter of how courteous I am...It's more a measure of how willing I am to act honestly in view of the perceived threat.
@Lila Green or perhaps you don't tolerate anyone questioning gender fluidity, which came to the fore after the education of small children, on line pressure groups and art world campaigns. All three of which are social constructs.
@Enigma MK Well, I have listened to JP a lot, and I do recall that he does call people what they request, when they ask him to do so? So when he meets someone who wants to identify as male, regardless of their biology, he does so by calling them the pronoun they desire. He just will not say that just because they call themselves a male , the biology of them is changed. Seems like he has said this multiple times. But I am old so my memory could be faulty. Do you have a particular video where he says he will not do so? Just curious! Thanks!
@Enigma MK Thanks for reply! Yes, that is me too. Totally respect whatever preference a person has to identify themselves as far as pronouns go. But I do not think the biology is trumped by social preferences. Science is science. Funny to me that the left screams 'science' then ignores this very basic science :)
@Lila Green that right there is your problem. You state "oh please we all know" you do realise when you say shit like that, that there will be some people thinking, she thinks she knows everything. Unless you have god like powers, you dont know what everyone knows. You should try and watch more peterson but as we all know, you would only be better informed but non the wiser.
If it has a code, it is not "free" speech.
One must have in mind that speech is a two way road.
Speech is just speech.
One must have first a mind and no devious intentions for that to happen. This isn t happening because the best for society is being pursued.
@@andreealautaru7661 Who decides what's best for society? This wasn't arrived at by consensus, no one asked how I feel. I think stifling free speech is a dreadful idea and anyone not brainwashed would agree.
@@morgantaylor517I agree with you. As I was saying, the foundation for all this is anything but " good intentions".
@@andreealautaru7661 I agree. Sorry if I seemed snippy I misunderstood your reply.
What about respect for Peterson's views? Oh right, never mind.
Peterson's views deserve no respect because they tend toward right-wing extremism and furthermore, he is too much the coward to admit his real positions. Extremism, either Left or Right needs to be disavowed. And, as per this segment, it universities role in society is to seek truth, then, by definition, this betters society and hence, is political. As history proves: "The tolerance of intolerance always leads to the triumph of the latter."
@@lizsharpe1031 utter BS
@@lizsharpe1031 hogwash
@@lizsharpe1031 What complete and utter nonsense.
@@lizsharpe1031: "Tend to go right-wing extremist" - Dude, you know he is left wing correct????
Shows what a failure our education system is when something that should be learned in kindergarten is an issue in university
It's no failure. It's quite legitimate. The proof of 1 + 1 = 2 in university pure maths takes around 2 pages, if I recall correctly. One of the main functions of university is to make you question very critically what you learned from your parents, church, kindergarten and school.
Arthur Kaletzky Lol , you actually believe that 😊
@@ottosump3356 Russian saying: "laughter without cause, that's a sign of stupidity". That's you, baby! (I'd write the Russian original, but I doubt you can read that language).
As I showed above, that critical questioning is not confined to the humanities. General relativity and quantum mechanics, as well as much of probability theory and pure maths, defy and contradict "common" "sense" and "human nature".
Arthur Kaletzky You think you are smart , but you are actually dumb ,a lot of you so self proclaimed intellectual types are like that .
Your idiotic comment proves that point .
Btw why the hell would I waste my time to learn Russian ? .
@@ArthurKaletzky ....just like you are required to do in every re-education gulag camp.....
Being polite to others by letting them voice their opinion is one thing, respecting their wrong opinions is something else. No one should be forced to respect an opinion that is wrong.
An opinion by definition cannot be ‘wrong’.
@@adamsmith307 Depends on the definition....
@@adamsmith307
Sorry, but I believe your opinion is wrong. Ha ha.
And who gets to decide which opinion is wrong?
@@amethystlarktree5962 anyone with a little common sense.can decide usually.
Absolutely sick of pc if you don't like what I say that's fine I probably won't like all you have to say. But we are free to disagree
Oh! No, no, no, no, no - you are no longer 'free', to do anything very much, any more. Liberty, R.I.P.
Are we?
Too bad people wanna kill ya just for disagreeing with em 😐
If you behave well and in a fair manner you naturally earn respect. Respect is something we earn and can’t be demanded.
Exactly. Respect is something one earns. You start at a basic level of neutral "zero" respect and it goes from there.
Well, you say that, but a lot of people actually don't respond in kind and just feel they can take advantage and make stupid arguments to give the appearance of "winning"
I don’t think this way. For me, personally, you start at 100% and the words, actions, and intent of the other person determines if that mutual respect stays at 100, or it falls from there. Each person should offer respect at first meet.
I'll just state for the record, Jordan Peterson has made it clear he is more than happy to use 'personal pronouns' that Trans people want him to use, his problem is with 'authorities' trying to compel him to use them. His problem is legally compelled speech, not Trans people or their pronouns. They just provided a case example of attempted punative authoritarian control of speech.
He has stated that very publicly and very clearly over and over and over. It's literally beyond belief that educated people can so badly misunderstand him. I use peoples opinion of Jordan Peterson as a shorthand for their personality profile. I don't agree with everything he says, (and frankly it would be weird to agree with 100% of what anybody says all the time) but to say that he is dangerous or an extremist means you either haven't listened to him, so I know you are prone to making emotional judgements that are not based on real evidence, or you are so emotionally crippled that you refuse to see the facts in front of you and choose to pursue your own narrative. Either would mean we would not get along because I'm an extremely objective person and don't handle emotional irrationality very well.
Jordan Peterson is the biggest idiot grifter on the planet. Addicted to drugs and he thinks he can give advice to others. He's off the wall and just says shit for notice. A flake if ever I saw one. His lectures are a laugh a minute - unintentionally.
Respect cannot be mandated, it has to be earned.
'respect' to me contours up mafia and ho..r killings. Personally I'd be happy to see the end of the word. Maybe we could use 'courtesy' or 'consideration' instead?
Having respect, from within, and conducting oneself in a respectful manner, are two different things. Another, very familiar word for that latter is, simply, 'courtesy;. That is all that is needed.
@Lila Green Can you at least try to respond to opinions you disagree with without insults?
For the record, Jordan Peterson has never said anything untoward about transexuals, transexuality, or about the universe of preferred pronouns. He strongly rejected the Canadian law that compells the use of those pronouns. His point is that never before in the history of English law has certain speech been compelled. Certain speech is forbidden by law (slander, fomenting violence, etc.), and Peterson takes no issue with those proscriptions. But, again, his sole position on transexual-preferred pronouns has nothing whatsoever to do with transexuals or preferred pronouns, but rather about state-compelled language.
Even within this thoughtful video, which rightly advocates tolerance as being a central virtue in places of learning, we find an example of what can happen to truth when the Victorian Left gets its way.
Here's a bit (some bits, actually) of possible casuistry: no-one prohibited Peterson from avoiding the use of any pronouns. He's obviously a competent speaker and writer, he can do so easily.
What he was prohibited from was using pronouns the objects of which would likely have found that usage offensive and even hateful. So one could argue that the prohibition was as valid as that of hate speech.
To reiterate, Peterson was NOT taking issue with prohibited speech. He has made clear that some types of speech have been prohibited throughout western history. His position was and remains in opposition to compelled speech. At no time in the history of English Law has the state ever compelled citizens to use certain words. Compelled speech is not the same thing as forbidden speech
@@ArthurKaletzky Why are you trying to explain to someone who obviously already more than understands...?
ruclips.net/video/gx0MLwhvWtY/видео.html 😅
@@SKOLAH It wasn't obvious to me, I'm trying to improve clarity. Once it's clear I can accept it or agrue against it effectively. I'm used to getting accusations like yours, claims of mansplaining or strawman making.
A voice of reason. Good luck Dr Ahmed, I'm afraid some people will try to portray you as alt right or LGBT hater...
@Doffy Rob "self-hating gay" then, the far left is quite creative
@@appletree6741 You say that as if it isn't something that exists. Remind me of why so many ardent homophobes end up being gay themselves?
T claims everyone is a hater. LGB not so much...
Gay here.... I think he is bang on! Attack on Free Speech here in Canada is unbelievable. The LEFT is out of Control.
@@timothyj1966 What attack on free speech? Awww is that bill C16 that has prosecuted 0 people 🤡
Respect is earned. And it is earned by behaviour, not by the 'identity' (demographic/ religion etc) of any particular person. If I can grasp this, far more intelligent academics at Cambridge can! Which suggests to me there is a political agenda behind this madness.
Great guest, thank you for getting him on!
I think much of this debate is that people use the word "respect" for two different things: there is universal respect, which is given unconditionally on the basis that all conscious beings are inherently valuable (this is the "I will defend to the death your right to say it" bit). But there is also conventional respect which is earned, conditional upon one's views and behaviors aligning with argued/agreed upon conventions of morality and truth. The issue with activists' is that they wish us to respect everyone in the latter sense, whether or not their views/behaviors adhere to any standard of truth or ethos, and really this amounts to a respect of low-expectations which is, in fact, deeply insulting and ultimately dehumanizing. For example, not demanding the opinion's of a black person to adhere to a certain standard, I thus demand nothing of him, thus he does not grow for lack of demands upon him, and thus while appearing to respect him in actuality I assure I am always in a position of superiority above him. THIS seems far more racist than simply being "disrespectful" in the short term
I disagree with your political agenda comment, I would say politicians haven't addressed the issue because they are probably scared of being singled out, you only need to look at all the attacks J.K Rowling has been getting on twitter. To me it seems an organised minority is preaching about their ideals and imposing their thoughts and believes in others. Should you disagree, well, get ready to be ganged up by said group and possibly lose your job. Sounds a bit like a cult to be honest. The genders for me are Male and Female, last time I checked, we are not amphibians that change sex depending on climate, temperature, etc, maybe evolution will correct me at some point, happy to wait, until then my point stands. Though I do have sympathy for their struggles, I think that everyone needs to tolerate others way of life and ideals, there are some exceptions but on the whole I think live and let live is a good mantra to go by.
@@julianmarx2002 astute comment Julien. I completely agree.
@@diexterdiggs3027 you're basically agreeing with him my dear chap.
Not sure why you don't agree with his "politicised" opinion??
It's simply a logical one agreeing with your own.
@@diexterdiggs3027 I suspect ‘BH’ is interchanging “political” with _ideological_ which, in this bespoke context, is perfectly understandable.
Congratulations to Dr Amed and fellow Professors on a brilliant result for freedom of speech at Cambridge University.
Thank you for defending free speech Dr. Ahmed.
He is? Could have fooled me. Cambridge University is a Marxist recruitment body, telling us how to think.
Hopefully we will see more common sense and resistance. Gives me hope.
Doubt it, the rot has set in and will only get worse.
“I’m sure the intentions behind it were genuinely good, I have no reason to doubt that”. WRONG!!!
This is the biggest mistake of the rational. If you understand their postmodern philosophy and beliefs, then you know that they are not good intentions, as we describe “good”. They are anti-freedom and anti-truth. Progressivism by its nature shifts the moral and ethical paradigm further and further to the point of complete insanity, while attempting to declare that what is real is manufactured by man. It’s not only dangerous, it’s evil in the damage that it does. Force is the byproduct of lack of self control, fear and hate and causes division. Choice is the byproduct of love and allows sacrifice. We regressed into animals. “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools”
@@brianpatrick3351 well said.
@@adrianmercuri8956 Historically an action is followed by a reaction. The situation could well get worse but in time the tables will turn.
Considering this is even a discussion within one of the supposed top universities in the country it’s clear common sense is slowly but surely going to be non existent in future generations, perfect for obeying orders and following rules with zero questioning of said order or rule.
Congratulations to Dr Ahmed and colleagues for persevering. You have given us hope for the argument for freedom of speech.
They’re the new puritans aren’t they? How do they not look back in history and see who they really are.
They're too busy posting vacuous opinions on Twitter to delve into history.
Because all they want is power. They dont care about logic and reason. They care about power alone.
Yep you need to take a good look at your history aswell
Enjoyed this, thank you. The consumer issue of studenthood raised by Dr Ahmed is also a big issue few talk about in academia. It's changed the whole culture of universities in my opinion and not for the better...
There's a lot academics aren't able to talk about :(
'Passive worms' I believe Camile Paglia called them lol. Sad!
The answer. Don’t send your kids to college. Have them learn a valuable trade.
And valuable self critical thinking! 🙌
you right
Introduce them to the works of Edward De Bono. A good start is : Teach Your Child How To Think
The Elites don't want people educated, College & Universities are valuable.
....and continue reading
Respect has to be earned - respect is never a "right".
Don’t tell a women’s studies major that!
Well, I don't respect you, who are "you" to determine who gets respect or not
@@underscoreellipsesdothyphe1563 I am the person who determines whom I respect. No one else makes that decision for me. I am sorry if that comes as a disappointment to you. Whom others respect is entirely their decision. And I in turn am fully entitled to disrespect those decisions they make.
@@HowardARoark I assure you there's no disappointment here because I don't "respect" you.. so.. have a nice day...? Lol.. might want to leave your ego at the door though lol
@@underscoreellipsesdothyphe1563 Well that's a relief to hear. The last thing I want is the respect of random twits on RUclips who run round making inane comments.
Everybody always says "I'm sure the original motivations behind all this are well-intentioned." In fact, the motivations are evil.
The precise point of tolerance is that it doesn't require anyone to like or respect anyone else for society to function smoothly. Civilized, diverse democracies require tolerance , totalitarian states require and enforce respect.
We started with the idea of tolerance long ago. Funny how we now need to reassert it again. It was the best policy then, as it is now.
Well argued.Respect is a tacit endorsement.No one should be forced to do any such thing.
There is a world of difference between exposing students to different viewpoints and challenging their intellectual, political and moral worldview and condoning the abuse and endangerment of individual students. The first is what is to be expected and universities are not doing their "customers" a service by coddling them and banning any such challenges to their worldview on the basis that such intellectual challenges constitute abuse or danger to them.
Well done Dr Arif!
The country has really gone down hill. The term is 'rudeness' ' provocation'.
-never cared:
-I never cared if you were “gay”
-until you started shoving it in my face, and the faces of my children.
-I never cared what color you were, until you started blaming my race
for your problems.
-I never cared about your political affiliation until you started to
condemn me for mine.
-I never cared where you were born until you wanted to erase my history
and blame my ancestors for your current problems.
-I never cared if you were well-off or poor, until you said you were
discriminated against, when I was promoted because I worked harder.
-I never cared if your beliefs were different from mine, until you said
my beliefs were wrong.
-NOW I CARE!
-My patience and tolerance are gone.
-I’m not alone in feeling this way, there are millions of us who
do...... and we have had enough!
-Anonymous
-copy and paste all over the internet
Can I ask, in what way is "gay" shoved in your face? I see that said a lot, and I genuinely don't understand what is meant by it...? Is the issue visibility?
@@jackward9901 - the issue is flaunting sexuality in pride parades that expose children to overly sexualized idiots with their Wangers dangling humping one another etc etc etc - this is a affront to those who wish to raises their children without being dragged into their sexual preference issue in the public arena. I will accept your decisions in your life but you fuck with children - their minds or anything that causes them damage and the gloves are off - I do not believe in violence - but don’t fuck with the children or there will be consequences you don’t like.
@@nomorewar4189 Totally in agreement.... never seen or heard the need for a straight parade
Should get that out on T shirts, you`ll make a fortune
@@nomorewar4189 That’s not a gay thing... that’s people being overly sexual. The two don’t go hand in hand.
Tollerance is reality, respect is a missuse of the word and should only be applied to something that Merits respect.
Yes respect is something that has to be earned. Not to say that treating anyone badly is acceptable. I can tolerate certain things but I find othe er things intolerable and should have the right to say so. Some people just want everyone to agree with them and that's totalitarianism.
To be respected one has to be respectable . A word not heard much !
Two underreported factors behind this trend:
1) Academia self-selects for Left leaning people who are avoiding a market based work culture. Once you have a critical mass of them, they’ll naturally implement silencing tactics against their political opponents.
2) Social media has allowed everyone to voice their opinion. This is the good part. On the negative side, it allows fringe minority elements to noisily shut down the much larger reasonable majority.
👏👏👏
It's funny how they can say Peterson doesn't respect opinion, yet nobody who disagrees with him respects his educated opinions 🤣
@Lila Green any of them
@Rosen Dale you couldn't be further from the truth. You have been brainwashed
@Lila Green why does it matter? If you've watched enough of him you'll know exactly what I mean it happens every time he talks. Or do you mean which topic do I personally believe needs mentioning most? If you haven't then watch some more and actually understand with logic. Or Are you just here to slander peterson and now me aswell?
No I'm not. I made a comment that happens all the time. I believe in questioning everything including peterson. But there seems to a big agenda against him and anyone who listens. Like I said I question everything. I never said he's a victim, I also never said he deserves more respect than anyone else including yourself. I can't work out where I've slandered anyone either. I also never said I wouldn't debate it, but as you can see from my 'baseless remark' you might be able to work out I didn't come here for that.
So go on then if that's what you'd like to do, you start and finish a debate on petersons observations. And I'm going to assume by the way you've introduced yourself to me that you're replies will be typically full of ad hominems. Hopefully not the case.
@Lila Green so are yours as I haven't fed you any ammo to fire back with. There are things I'd say I disagree with him in aswell if you must know. And like I said in my last message I never said he was victim. So I've literally no idea what you're point in being here is other than to create an argument in which I will not engage. Have a great day!
Respecting a person’s right to a view is not respecting a person’s view.
Did you not watch the video?
A few points
- Shouldn’t Jordan Peterson have been respected and or tolerated? everyone should be tolerated?
-Jordan Peterson was only opposed to the “forced use” of pronoun usage not the pronouns themselves. That distinction is huge.
-how and who chooses what should be respected and or tolerated? Anyone can take offense to anything.
This is what happens when you teach people ‘what to think’ instead of ‘how to think’. Give the students challenges and resources and they will have respect, instead of just repeating what they’ve heard without understanding the consequences.
..."so long as it's legal" is these days not much cover, given the prosecutions under the communications act and the push for ever tighter 'hate speech' legislation and interpretations.
Needs abolishing.
Many years ago, when I was hired at the medical center of a large state university in the US as an assistant professor I was presented with a document to sign accepting the position. In the document was a statement that I would never participant, support, or agree to any activity that was directed to the overthrow of the university or government. I crossed it out, initialed my strike, and signed the document. Nothing ever came of that. It seemed very strange to me at the time.
thank you for the well conducted interview and for bringing this to light. Its inspiring to see people thinking ideas and actions through, as best they can.
Hats off to Dr Ahmed! Thank God for your commitment to academic freedom. I am disgusted by the Master of Gonville and Caius, who has shamefully removed the Fisher window after the Gate of Honour was vandalised. Absolutely craven. It feels like we are reliving the demolition of the 'Four Olds' in the Cultural Revolution. We live in dangerous times. Academics like Dr Ahmed are a bulwark of restraint against the contemporary Red Guards.
There was a time when Universities were considered a veritable melting pot of ideas and opinions. A lot of the world's great innovations and breakthroughs have come out of this. Nowadays, sadly, they seem to be like little outposts of North Korea. Jordan Peterson is guilty of nothing more than expressing sound, well considered, professionally based opinions - he is a hero of our times.
And it alone says volumes about our times, that a single man, a professor, is a hero just for being honest and not afraid to speak his mind.
No, he isn’t. Think (for your self) again.
@@theoduval1408 please explain
bloody cancel culture - you can say and do anything you want, as long as you follow what we say and do bollox
I was free from the censorship education when I left university. The workplace is now fully infected in my opinion... my big corporate workplace has now been attempting to re-educate us on this inclusivity and diversity stuff, it’s really depressing and makes working there less enjoyable, and we perform worse in our jobs. They’re “training” has made us less productive, as apparently the most important thing about being a good salesperson, is to recognise your biases, admit that your are inherently racist and bigoted and so on and so forth.... blows my mind that serious people can’t see the danger of what they are peddling.
Thank you for your content UnHerd.
It's a blatant anti-white agenda. Those that agree with it either hate white people for their own reasons or they have been indoctrinated to believe that white people are the oppressive upper class that ought to be knocked back down. There is a global ruling class and "priest" class that has become far too powerful, and they believe that regular white folks are their biggest roadblock.
The neutering of the white male has been going on for the past 40 years and it's only going to get worse.
This is useful in explaining the downward spiral of diversity training newdiscourses.com/2020/11/why-your-organization-should-not-do-diversity-training/
Kick HR and diversity departments to the kerb.
The marketization of education is something The Economist also pointed out sometime ago.It produces swathes of diploma holders with no real value for the economy and society which then turns them into disgruntled people blaming the "system" for their own wrong choices.
15:00 Interviewer's language is quite revealing: "Pupils" and university "teaching what is _true_ ". They are called students and universities are places supposed to EXPLORE knowledge. The only hard science is mathematics (and even there ....), there are disagreements in the field of physics, chemistry, biology, never mind the social sciences (like economics).
So how are universities are supposed to teach what is "true" ?
Part of the package you get at an university is teaching of those who have an advantage in knowledge, but the students (not pupils) are supposed to think for themselves. Ideally an 18 year old should be already able and eager to do that, but the pupuls are usually spoon fed with whatever counts for knowledge and education and there is no time to let them think or develop the reasoning for themselves.
Delivering rehearsed facts counts for eduction, part of it is what is idolized as educations (facts over abilities - the latter are much harder to grade, would also be a challenge for future employers to classify them and to discard).
and part of it is that it is of course not a desire of those in power (and the part of the population that benefits from the status quo) to have a population that thinks independently.
As a 70yo male, it seems to me, and I talk about it most days with a variety of people and ages, that the vast majority of áverage´people do not support the woke brigade and identitarians, but feel no one wants to listen to them so they say nothing! It must also be said that huge numbers of these same ´everyday folk´ do not follow the debates and discussions on such issues which also makes them feel ill equiped to argue-discuss the issues openly.....the ´silent majority´ certainly does exist in my view.
Agree. In Canada our Prime Minister- who has three ethics violations & numerous lies to his credit- wishes to dictate what is acceptable for citizens to say. Trudeau covers this stance with deceit& circuitous reasoning.
He said: "We will always defend freedom of expression, but freedom of expression is not without limits."
Anthony Furey in the Toronto Sun responds: 'Free speech that excludes those things deemed by the likes of Trudeau to be arbitrary or unnecessary isn't free speech AT ALL.
Trudeau appeared to defend the murder by decapitation of a school teacher in France- and did not support Macron.
This is the slippery slope of 'lockdown' speech & restricted thought. *Entire countries are bludgeoned into silence.
https;//torontosun.com/opinion/colomnists/furey-macrons-defending-free
@@laurieparker-stuart868 the link leads to missing page
How about allowing ALL speech and letting the chips fall where they may. If you are sufficiently detestable in your utterances, you will make yourself and your message a pariah all of your own doing. If your message is backed by wisdom, truth, and merit, it will stand on its own.
"When you tear out a mans tongue you are not proving him a liar; you are only telling the world that you fear what he might say" - Tyrion Lannister
There is a massive difference between respect and tolerance. I can tolerate many things but I do not think that I should be forced to respect views I disagree with. I should not be forced to respect white nationalists, for example, but I can be tolerant of them.
Also tired of being told what to do and what to think. It's ridiculous to have swung so far the other way from abuse and racist etc talk being acceptable to every published/expressed thought being policed.
Universities are funded by the oil businesses ie Carnegie and Rockefeller. Klaus Scwabe and Rubenstien et al. Spell it out please anyone watching this will know who
"I'm fed up with being told what to think."
Everyone needs to be more like this man. Don't be silent, fight back!
I have an idea: no more grading at schools as it might be perceived discriminatory and racist.
Tell them to get back to education, and stop trying to change culture. Mind you own damned business culture wise.
They should have the freedom to spend their time as they see fit and freedom to say what they like, surely? Why are you trying to tell people what to do? Do you only believe in freedom when it's for people who you agree with?
@@amethystlarktree5962 You seem to have missed the point. They are there to give education, not to tell them how to think. Their thought processes are their own, and not to be trained with other peoples opinions.
@@oldunpastit IMO you've contradicted yourself. Education, particularly in an HEI, is about teaching students how to think and it should be capable of changing their culture very radically. That's particularly true of Ahmed's field, philosophy.
Education is NOT military or other training. In most ways, it's the exact opposite.
@@ArthurKaletzky It's about giving them the knowledge, TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES.
@@oldunpastit One of the first consequences of thinking for themselves will probably be rigorous criticism of cultures, particularly ones they have most experienced: those in which they were brought up and schooled and those which dominate the environs of their HEI. "Minding their own damn business culture-wise" is the very antithesis of that: the first targets are likely to be their nation-state (particularly its military and other organs of state violence) and their family.
The new normal is to call people who disagree with you names, So get used to it
Thank you, Dr Ahmed! Good interview, Unherd! Thank you!
Great listen. Thank you Dr. Arif Ahmed!
Pointless sending kids to Universities when it’s pick and mix teachings..... soul destroying !!! Instead why not learn valuable self critical thinking!!
As far as I am aware, there is no right to freedom of speech in the U.K. You can’t just say what you want when you want to. And it works both ways. If you voice your opinion you must be open to defend it.
Well said Dr.Arif Ahmed. All this really does matter to society at large. This madness that is #CT, #CRT, #CulturalMarxism, espoused by Robin DiAngelo, KImberle Crenshaw has to be pushed back.
In essence, respect the school bullies.
“Or whatever it was”. No, dude. That’s exactly the problem with the criticism against Peterson’s take against C16.
Universities becoming Corporations selling philosophies.Hmmm.Well there goes civil society...
We should be free to speak, even to offend, or it’s not free speech.
You don't give offence, its taken.
@@billmarsh1971 Touche! I'm a person who rarely gets offended, not because everybody loves me, but because there is but a few people who's opinion I respect. You can only offend me if I take you as an honest, reliable and intelligent person. And I think it is vice-versa, why would somebody be offended by my opinion, if he/she has even no clue who I am.
@@MacakPodSIjemom exactly. I've heard many opinions, beliefs and views that are contrary to my own. Some have given me food for thought and even changed my thinking on a subject due to factual points I hadn't known or considered. We seem to have entered very murky territory with the cancel culture of recent years.
Let's expose what's really being said i.e. we should tolerate/respect everything EXCEPT Judo/Christian views.
Read the accompanying article on UnHerd here:
unherd.com/thepost/tutor-speaks-out-on-cambridge-free-speech-battle/?ftc
Since you've come online, you've become one of my favorite channels. Get your butt on bitchute and odysee....PLEASE! odysee.com
Consider adding Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash addresses to the bottom of the videos. It costs you nothing and you may get donations from time to time. 😉
Yes! It's not 'freedom of speech'. It's the more important 'freedom of thought' that is under threat.
Don't they teach , deontology at universities anymore ?
Universities are places for debates , knowledge , challenges and future generations that can leadership .
He was wrong in saying that universities is not to place to debates ...
Given the shocking and unacceptable treatment Cambridge (or part of it) accorded Canadian intellectual Jordan Peterson, people should be concerned about speech codes. The speaker is correct and there is reason to be concerned in many countries. In Ontario Canada the Law Society in 2017, tried to bring in forced statements for all lawyers requiring them to support ‘inclusivity’ and ‘equality’ in the abstract and many members of the Law Society pushed back, some 20 Benchers were voted out by a slate opposed to the policy and the policy was reversed. The new speech guardians are a menace who need to be resisted. Their claims for justice and fairness need to be unmasked.
Cambridge (One of my alma maters) needs to follow the Ontario Law Society (one of my Law Societies). The language of “comfort” and “safety” is now regularly co~opted to truncate the scope of discussion, analysis , debate and disagreement; as such open education and personal liberty are under direct threat.
It’s all such hoppycock! We shouldn’t even be having these conversations about what we can or cannot say. What a BS society we currently are living 🤦🏽♂️
If you invite professors that are openly socialist to universities you can invite ones who are somewhat centre right
As a ten year old pupil at a brand new* school in Enniskillen in Co Fermanagh I was given detention over the break when I said "God does not exist". 67 years on, I would be liable to be sacked by some Cambridge academics if I said "Trans women are actually men".
* brand new in that I had suddenly moved from a bog standard state primary in grey, bombed out London to a Protestant junior boarding school among the green fields and sparkling lakes of Co Fermanagh.
What is 'unsayable' varies in time and geography.
Yes, Catholic raised Aussie (Irish heritage here). And what they do not realise is how quickly what they say today, may be what is banned tomorrow. They a poking a very big bear. (Bear = The majority, no politics intended, bear does not mean russia)
I doubt you'd be sacked. You'd be asked what is your denotation of the word "men", and if you tried to revert to what that word denotated 50 years ago, your views would be attacked - and rightly so. What with advances in biology, the words "men" and "women" have become bloody hard to define.
The problem is fundamentally spiritual. Having abandoned God, who offers redemption in Christ, people are looking for a way to assuage their sense of personal guilt. They have created a new religion of political correctness, and a new Pharisee class, the social justice warriors. Not far removed from Mao's red guard.
What an incredibly sensible chap Dr Ahmed is. Nice to know his opinion has prevailed.
Help please🤔 All tutors that ALL think the same way, will be employed in our universities? Is that the aim?
Very much so. The point is to be as mediocre and silent as possible. This is the golden route to a 'career' which is all most care about.
The Jordan Peterson example is incorrect. The trans issue was an example of how Bill C-16 in Canada could have been applied, in that Peterson argued that it would force him, under law, to use particular pronouns demanded by a trans person. In other words, compelled speech. He took the view that the determination as to what pronouns he would use to address someone is entirely up to him.
The path to evil is pathed in good intentions. An example of this issue with easily hurt snowflakes, my daughter makes a joke at shcool, she is 10, one boy decides it's racist, ( it wasn't) and the shcool know this as well, but the problem with this is that the shcool still decided to educate as they put it, my daughter by saying we know you were not racist or meant any harm, but you have to be careful what you say as it may hurt some people, so rather than teaching this ignorant child what racism really is, they teach good children to just not talk, just incase you hurt someones feelings. This is insane..
What was the joke?
13:42 leads to a very enlightening exchange of observations: universities no longer have students but customers, who have to "feel at home".
I thought a person learns more outside of their comfort zone? Arent universities places of learning?
@@annatmarshall5133 Exactly! Education is about being exposed to new people, new ideas, new obsessions, new bêtes noires and yes, new angst. You don't get that at home. This has always been my argument against homeschooling, and of course it is also my argument against making universities "feel like home."
Respect: another word watered down to meaninglessness.
The expression "taking the Mickey" believe it or not can be viewed as racist towards Irish in some quarters.
Tolerance requires resilience which appears to be the lacking quality in those who seek to stifle free speech
who on the right is criticising individual liberty? i see myself on the right but i don't see that. Completely appreciate that i could be living in an echo chamber but i'd genuinely like to challenge people of my own persuasion around why they don't leave people to be themselves.
@@MatthewJohnFaunce I'd agree that's unacceptable behaviour - i'm from the uk and there's been a history here of suppressing Welsh/Scottish/Cornish etc culture, arguably the result of an English colonialist attitude, however i don't see anyone from the right defending that today. I think i'd grant that the culture wars have been won by the left but to my mind that's had the effect of the right being far more robust and precise on it's position and and some on the left going mad and not knowing where to stop.
It is so sad that it has to be explained. Everybody says they are for peace, love and diversity. They forgot to add how they mean it: first, everybody have to think the same way.
I think it is also emotional intelligence. Some people are virtue signaling without understanding what freedom of speech means and when it is not ok to police others to protect your feelings threatened by an other view. They can't recognize that what they are feeling is threat to their ego, challenge to their thinking and they have no right to feeling unchallenged.
There is no reason to adjust anything. The only speech that is criminal in any sense is speech that is directly and clearly part of a criminal act. In my country we have people singing 'kill the boer' on the regular. That's me, I'm the boer. And they do kill us. Nonetheless his speech is protected as it should be (though other forms of less controversial speech is not but that's another issue). Unless it's a direct and specific call to violence or crime and is essential to the execution of this act then you get to say whatever the hell you want, no matter how abhorrent. Man up people of the West, this is our core value. If we let this be compromised we will lose everything. It's a binary issue. There's no middle ground.
Restricted is the opposite of free. If you place your feelings in the hands of others by trying to make them not hurt or offend you then you are also not free.
I like this man and I don’t respect anything that doesn’t deserve respect
But, then, based on that rule, if you are disrespectful to someone, wouldn’t they have to respect you for your disrespect?
I reserve the right to say whatever crazy thing I like.
Jordan Peterson was never disrespectful to any trans people, it was the compelled speech law that the Canadian government were trying to pass that he fought against. I genuinely cant think of any reason why a university would not want him to visit.
Good thing Dr Arif Ahmed outsmarts the pernicious attempts to silence dissidents through regulations.