@@MrRiveragato The actor actually died from a heart attack, so even though the casket was empty for filming purposes, they felt the weight of it in remembering their fellow actor.
I imagine there wasn't a whole lot of acting in this scene. John was a member of the West Wing family and everyone from his fellow cast to us fans felt this loss.
It was. It was filmed not long after John Spencer’s funeral. They had a memorial service at the studio (his funeral and burial were in New Jersey) and were filming these scenes within a few weeks.
I remember the very first time I saw this back in the day thinking to myself that even though this was a television show, I was NOT the only one who had a piece of their heart buried with Leo. I allowed this show to become personal because it taught me on so many occasions how to be a better human being. To this day I draw reminders of lessons learned and inspiration to be better. Sounds dopey I'll admit but West Wing has served me well through the years. I'm honored to read the comments of others in here who have their own lessons to teach me too. Peace👋
You're not alone - many times in my working career over the last 20 years I've genuinely asked myself 'what would Leo do' - a better example of a human who's recognised and confronted his flaws you'll be hard pressed to find.
I honestly think that the west wing should be mandatory viewing for anybody considering running for the White House. It's not about what party you are in, or what political positions you hold it's understanding that you are the steward of the democracy… A temporary transient figure there for a short time to carry on the legacy and serve the people, not oneself
I remember watching this when it first aired. This was a beautiful, tatseful and wonderful tribute the show paid to John Spencer. A couple weeks ago, Martin Sheen appeared on a TV show where they showed his and Spencer's last scene together, at the democratic convention where Bartlett spoke and Leo was named the vice president. Sheen literally began to cry and then apologized for it. When asked why, he said that he had never actually seen that scene before and it touched him because he and Spencer were such good friends in real life.
Trump would just rant and rave that he's been unfairly usurped of his place in the center of everything. The only thing he would carry is his deranged combination of paranoia, stupidity, and Nazism.
Toby was pardoned in the end, and Bartlett did speak with him at the beginning of season 7 when they all met at the opening of the Bartlett presidential library
I know this moment is about Leo/John Spencer, but I find no surprise that Charlie placed himself right next to the President. Jed was in no physical condition to do that, and Charlie wouldn't hesitate to carry more of the weight so the President could be there.
Regardless of where one resides on the political spectrum or what religious beliefs any may have, the beauty of this series was the combination of great scripts and a wonderful ensemble cast. As noted above, the many instances where a scene held a deeper meaning beyond the dialogue are plentiful. Even though this is a very sad scene, it offers great insight into the characters. 👍🏻
That's an astute observation and analysis. I didn't notice that because there is so much emphasis on how you feel about the loss of Leo and how everyone reacted to it and the fact that Charlie was right next to Bartlett is subtle, yet powerful....and I bet you that Aaron Sorkin intended just that. I don;t think there will ever be a TV writer better than Sorkin.
@@fishbone3333 Aaron Sorkin was nowhere near this series at the time. Seasons 5 to 7 were written by John Wells and his team. Wells co-wrote this episode with Eli Attie. Other than his being a featured extra in the series finale, Sorkin decidedly had nothing to do with this show after he left at the end of Season 4. So this was a John Wells script under the direction of Christopher Misiano.
For all of us who have been attendees or pall bearers at the weddings of loved ones, there is so much that we identify with when we see such moving scenes. I cried a ton when I first saw this and had wondered how they would memorialize John Spencer's passing. This scene was so moving that I can only think of what was said for the passing of another great person in that he is "now with the Ages" (paraphrased loosely btw). Thank you for this post.
I love how the 6th pallbearer is a complete mystery. They could have easily put another series recurring character there. Most other shows would have done that. But this just gives a touch on what a history Leo had. That before his time as COS, there were other men in his life who he had deep bonds with.
The sixth pallbearer is Leo's son-in-law, Mallory's (Allison Smith) husband, played by an uncredited Gary Patrick Anderson. You can see him sitting next to her at 1:16.
No, the problem was in real life, Rob Lowe had had a surgery, and couldn't fly to make it for this shoot. I think this was the one of the last episodes shot, which is why Sam showed up in the next episode, but not this one. It's funny, but out of all the regulars from the past 7 seasons, only 3 people didn't show up who weren't dead (in the show): Sam, Mandy (from the 1st season), and whatever Kate Bishop's role was. Hell, even his ex-wife showed up.
@@dee_dee_place Leo's original secretary is CJ's current secretary, Margaret. And you can see her at 2:29. As for Ansley, nobody from the White House Counsel were considered regulars. Her, Oliver Babish, nor Lionel Tribbey appeared more than in guest spots at best. The closest to regulars any of them got was when they were pushing for Ansley to the be the foil to Sam Seaborn, but it had no legs. Regardless, Ansley was there, she's just not in this scene. If you go check a casting list for the episode, you'll see her name listed. I believe where you see her (haven't seen the episode in about 3 years, so my memory is a bit rusty), she's outside the church with everyone else before they heads back to the White House.
I don't know why I didn't watch this show when it originally aired, but when I did see in re-runs years later, this episode especially, was so profound that you almost felt like you were actually there. I am going to come out & ask though, am I the only one who noticed that the casket is supposed to go both in & out feet first, not head first? Yes, of all the times I've watched this over the years, I'm surprised I never noticed it before.
At 2:17, I know it's the illusion created by the two heads behind him, but that plus the downward tilt of his own head making his beard look longer, and Toby looks positively Rabbinical.
I love that so many of the actors from the whole series were back and featured, if only for a second, in the montage of faces. They were there for John Spencer so it must have meant a lot to his loved ones to see them knowing the presence of those actors was about him, not the show.
Great show and superbly acted. Dylan Thomas poem seems appropriate…. Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light. Though wise men at their end know dark is right, Because their words had forked no lightning they Do not go gentle into that good night.
It’s crazy how many people in this scene would appear on NCIS. Toby played a terrorist, Toby’s ex wife played one of Gibbs’s ex wives the current VP bob Russell replaced Gibbs as leader of the team.
Years later, and it still p*sses me off how they treated Toby the last season. Never in a million years would he have betrayed President Bartlett like that. It still makes me angry.
Beautiful scene. But I'm surprised they carried the casket out for a few reasons - 1) They are HEAVY. Usually they're on a roller cart. 2) President has MS and is the oldest guy there. Probably not great at carrying heavy weights. Still - fare thee well Leo/John.
Pretty sure for military, it has to be carried, but not completely sure. I've only been to one real life military funeral, and the casket was carried. But I don't know if it's unusual or not.
@@jasonroberts5746so true. That’s what led to everything??.. Leo wanted to attack and president says or what??.. then Leo realizes his counsel is no longer needed I think.. can’t remember.. then Leo heart attack?? ☹️
@@MatthewKearney69 Leo wanted to not do the middle east meeting after Fit-gerald's death. Bartlet and Leo got into an argument, and Bartlet fired him on the spot. Leo then had a heart attack, which Barlett then felt guilty over. It was not even known to anybody but Leo, Bartlet, and Dr. Barlett (Jed told her on the way to the hospital that he did this) that Leo was even fired.
I am gladdened that they let John Spencer's character (who had an on-screen heart attack previously) die and be remembered in a dignified manner. He was the keystone of the cast. The program would have never worked without him. I have not been to a church funeral in a long time in which the pall bearers actually carried the casket. Usually, it goes on that folding device with the wheels--I suppose to prevent injuries or accidents.BTW: The whole Toby-leak subplot was terrible. Doing a dishonorable act was so out of character for Toby. The writing really went downhill after Sorkin left. The program really belonged to him. They should have given him whatever he wanted.
I know this was just a television show, but I’m pretty sure the Secret Service would never allow the President of the United States to be an active pallbearer at a funeral.
I simply love The West Wing. Not least because it is so unrelentingly intelligent! To a broader point, however, let me be a thoroughgoing sourpuss and say this. The late, great Christopher Hitchens was right on the money! The primary reason that "We The People" embrace this NONSENSE called religion is because of our FEAR OF DEATH! But the dead are, of course, no less dead just because we invoke the name of Jesus. (Who, I strongly suspect, did NOT even exist in the first place.) When a loved one dies, let's get together and celebrate the life of him or her. But do we really need the rest of the mumbo jumbo? Isn't it time to EVOLVE beyond such foolishness???
I feel it would have been worse if Margaret had been stuck in the middle of the sequence. She was last before the president. I felt that said something.
I suspect the episode's director saved her for (nearly) last on purpose. They obviously couldn't place her first, but still understood she would be one of the people hit hardest by Leo's death, and didn't want her to be just another face in the middle of the sequence (of people in the pews being shown).
Catholic funerals are full of ritual and pageantry (if you can afford the fees) but they are stark and cold. They thump Catholicism pretty hard even knowing many in attendance aren't of the faith. I have never found one of these events to be warm or comforting. And nothing about it would draw me to the faith. Yuck! But it was a great show.
He was, in the show, a religious Irish Catholic. That religious bullshit you so blithely dismiss, is part of the of Rite for the Burial of the Dead. It is how Roman Catholics are buried. You don't like it? Fine. But please don't dismiss it just because you're you.
"It was an empty casket, but it wasn't an empty casket." - Dulé Hill
A very succinct comment, he had been their friend and mentor over the previous 5 years. RIP Johnny.
I hadn't heard that before - thank you for sharing xx❤
Ok you lost me bruh
@@MrRiveragato The actor actually died from a heart attack, so even though the casket was empty for filming purposes, they felt the weight of it in remembering their fellow actor.
Rest in peace John Spencer… This was the most amazing tribute they could have ever given him.
They're all professionals, but I have to imagine this was one of the hardest scenes to film in the entire series
I imagine there wasn't a whole lot of acting in this scene. John was a member of the West Wing family and everyone from his fellow cast to us fans felt this loss.
Those tears were real. May John Spencer RIP
Many of the actors appeared in the show with no dialogue or scenes, but merely to be seen in the pews of the church.
It was. It was filmed not long after John Spencer’s funeral. They had a memorial service at the studio (his funeral and burial were in New Jersey) and were filming these scenes within a few weeks.
I remember the very first time I saw this back in the day thinking to myself that even though this was a television show, I was NOT the only one who had a piece of their heart buried with Leo. I allowed this show to become personal because it taught me on so many occasions how to be a better human being. To this day I draw reminders of lessons learned and inspiration to be better. Sounds dopey I'll admit but West Wing has served me well through the years. I'm honored to read the comments of others in here who have their own lessons to teach me too. Peace👋
You're not alone - many times in my working career over the last 20 years I've genuinely asked myself 'what would Leo do' - a better example of a human who's recognised and confronted his flaws you'll be hard pressed to find.
@@CCISolitude Nailed It! This is what I meant by learning from the words of the viewers of this channel! Thank You! 😊👋
I honestly think that the west wing should be mandatory viewing for anybody considering running for the White House. It's not about what party you are in, or what political positions you hold it's understanding that you are the steward of the democracy… A temporary transient figure there for a short time to carry on the legacy and serve the people, not oneself
@@aigtrader2984 A Steward Of Democracy! Made my Thursday Shine 👋
Grace under pressure, being human and other such lofty qualities personified.
I watched this crying the whole time. Same when Mrs. Landingham died.
I remember watching this when it first aired. This was a beautiful, tatseful and wonderful tribute the show paid to John Spencer.
A couple weeks ago, Martin Sheen appeared on a TV show where they showed his and Spencer's last scene together, at the democratic convention where Bartlett spoke and Leo was named the vice president. Sheen literally began to cry and then apologized for it. When asked why, he said that he had never actually seen that scene before and it touched him because he and Spencer were such good friends in real life.
I remember seeing that too and was moved by Sheen crying. I couldn't possibly love this show more. I think I'm overdue for a re-watch.
Having two Presidents of the United States as pallbearers is wild
Trump would just rant and rave that he's been unfairly usurped of his place in the center of everything. The only thing he would carry is his deranged combination of paranoia, stupidity, and Nazism.
There has never been another series as good.
it’s speaks to johns skill as an actor that we felt the pain like we were a member of the cast
I still tear up remembering this episode. I hate the way the writers ended Toby. And bless Charlie..
Toby was pardoned in the end, and Bartlett did speak with him at the beginning of season 7 when they all met at the opening of the Bartlett presidential library
Sorkin wouldn't have done that.
Agree. Toby deserved better.
They should have shown Margaret a bit more in this scene. She was his assistant for such a long time.
I’m so glad that they are willing to show all these people who were on the show for years before John Spencer died all coming to honor Leo/John
a lot of fans including me really cried that day
This one scene where most of the actors didn’t need to act.
I know this moment is about Leo/John Spencer, but I find no surprise that Charlie placed himself right next to the President. Jed was in no physical condition to do that, and Charlie wouldn't hesitate to carry more of the weight so the President could be there.
Regardless of where one resides on the political spectrum or what religious beliefs any may have, the beauty of this series was the combination of great scripts and a wonderful ensemble cast. As noted above, the many instances where a scene held a deeper meaning beyond the dialogue are plentiful. Even though this is a very sad scene, it offers great insight into the characters. 👍🏻
That's an astute observation and analysis. I didn't notice that because there is so much emphasis on how you feel about the loss of Leo and how everyone reacted to it and the fact that Charlie was right next to Bartlett is subtle, yet powerful....and I bet you that Aaron Sorkin intended just that. I don;t think there will ever be a TV writer better than Sorkin.
@@fishbone3333 Aaron Sorkin was nowhere near this series at the time. Seasons 5 to 7 were written by John Wells and his team. Wells co-wrote this episode with Eli Attie. Other than his being a featured extra in the series finale, Sorkin decidedly had nothing to do with this show after he left at the end of Season 4. So this was a John Wells script under the direction of Christopher Misiano.
@@OneLoveRSRLike Leo being here even though the casket was empty, Sorkin is in this scene in spirit. He created the world of West Wing!
For all of us who have been attendees or pall bearers at the weddings of loved ones, there is so much that we identify with when we see such moving scenes. I cried a ton when I first saw this and had wondered how they would memorialize John Spencer's passing. This scene was so moving that I can only think of what was said for the passing of another great person in that he is "now with the Ages" (paraphrased loosely btw). Thank you for this post.
I love how the 6th pallbearer is a complete mystery. They could have easily put another series recurring character there. Most other shows would have done that. But this just gives a touch on what a history Leo had. That before his time as COS, there were other men in his life who he had deep bonds with.
The sixth pallbearer is Leo's son-in-law, Mallory's (Allison Smith) husband, played by an uncredited Gary Patrick Anderson. You can see him sitting next to her at 1:16.
@@AlanSwann actually the actor sitting beside Mallory and the actor playing the pall bearer are not the same person.
I would like to see this back on the air
Those steel heel taps have the finality of the sands of time flowing through an hourglass. -mikenotpaula.
"Johnny it seems we hardly knew you, we love you and we miss you" 💔
Even though they didn't show him I'd like to think Sam Seaborn was somewhere in the crowd.
He had left the series for other opportunities he had been offered, and may not have been able to get away.
He came back the following episode.
No, the problem was in real life, Rob Lowe had had a surgery, and couldn't fly to make it for this shoot. I think this was the one of the last episodes shot, which is why Sam showed up in the next episode, but not this one. It's funny, but out of all the regulars from the past 7 seasons, only 3 people didn't show up who weren't dead (in the show): Sam, Mandy (from the 1st season), and whatever Kate Bishop's role was. Hell, even his ex-wife showed up.
@@stefsmurf His original secretary, the one who could write the POTUS' signature & Ansley weren't there.
@@dee_dee_place Leo's original secretary is CJ's current secretary, Margaret. And you can see her at 2:29. As for Ansley, nobody from the White House Counsel were considered regulars. Her, Oliver Babish, nor Lionel Tribbey appeared more than in guest spots at best. The closest to regulars any of them got was when they were pushing for Ansley to the be the foil to Sam Seaborn, but it had no legs. Regardless, Ansley was there, she's just not in this scene. If you go check a casting list for the episode, you'll see her name listed. I believe where you see her (haven't seen the episode in about 3 years, so my memory is a bit rusty), she's outside the church with everyone else before they heads back to the White House.
Their tears were real as they remember john spencer
Imagine being the guy whose coffin is carried by 2 American presidents!
They are not presidents at that moment. Just people who are mourning a friend and trusted advisor.
One president and one future president, a president elect. Bartlett was still in office
Margaret really should have been included in the opening montage.
She was
I don't know why I didn't watch this show when it originally aired, but when I did see in re-runs years later, this episode especially, was so profound that you almost felt like you were actually there. I am going to come out & ask though, am I the only one who noticed that the casket is supposed to go both in & out feet first, not head first? Yes, of all the times I've watched this over the years, I'm surprised I never noticed it before.
Really loved thid❤and this was so beautiful
Had me all in tears
At 2:17, I know it's the illusion created by the two heads behind him, but that plus the downward tilt of his own head making his beard look longer, and Toby looks positively Rabbinical.
I love that so many of the actors from the whole series were back and featured, if only for a second, in the montage of faces. They were there for John Spencer so it must have meant a lot to his loved ones to see them knowing the presence of those actors was about him, not the show.
The hardest part about this whole scene is that none of them were acting. They were remembering John Spencer. RIP sir.
Great show and superbly acted. Dylan Thomas poem seems appropriate….
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
This one hurt. Leo was such a force
when Josh puts his hand on Jeds shoulder, that doesn't look scripted, i think Martin needed that
It must have been so emotional not least because they were mourning John Spencer as well as Leo McGarry!
People hate on the Toby storyline, but the acting it produced, and the moments between characters...
The scene between Charlie and Toby was lovely.
To this day I don’t really understand the hate for the Toby storyline. It was exactly in character both Toby and the President.
@@DysClaimerrichard schiff was in a difficult situation. The show was coming to and end. He hated this shuttle story. Wb were cutting costs.
Those were real tears
I'm not crying...really
It’s crazy how many people in this scene would appear on NCIS. Toby played a terrorist, Toby’s ex wife played one of Gibbs’s ex wives the current VP bob Russell replaced Gibbs as leader of the team.
Same as, Star Trek, and Outer Limits. Roddenberry, was connected to both
That is how Producers work. Go with who you trust
I wish Sam had been there. This scene tore me up.
For a practicing catholic this was very moving, especially as he really was dead.
John Spencer was Catholic, too.
@@lisasharf1442 thanks did not know that. So basically the funeral mass as shown in the West Wing, could have been the real thing. Cheers!
Where was this filmed? The exterior was the RC cathedral in Baltimore, but the interior manifestly wasn’t that.
Leo's death was ultimate tearjerker moment.
C'mon why you gotta upload this and make me all sad first thing in the morning
Same!😢
See you on the other side, John Spencer.
It must have been a tough shoot that day
This was a very sad scene
Years later, and it still p*sses me off how they treated Toby the last season. Never in a million years would he have betrayed President Bartlett like that. It still makes me angry.
They wanted to stick it to Sorkin.
I didn't like it either. There was no reason to do that to Toby.
He didn’t. He was covering for Andy. I still hated it though.
Why is Leo getting an Anglican funeral
Beautiful scene. But I'm surprised they carried the casket out for a few reasons -
1) They are HEAVY. Usually they're on a roller cart.
2) President has MS and is the oldest guy there. Probably not great at carrying heavy weights.
Still - fare thee well Leo/John.
Pretty sure for military, it has to be carried, but not completely sure. I've only been to one real life military funeral, and the casket was carried. But I don't know if it's unusual or not.
John Amos couldn't make it? Had he preceded John Spencer in death?
If I recall correctly, his character had previously been killed in a terrorist attack overseas?
His character was killed while in the middle east in the attack that also injured Donna.
@@jasonroberts5746so true. That’s what led to everything??.. Leo wanted to attack and president says or what??.. then Leo realizes his counsel is no longer needed I think.. can’t remember.. then Leo heart attack?? ☹️
@@MatthewKearney69 Leo wanted to not do the middle east meeting after Fit-gerald's death. Bartlet and Leo got into an argument, and Bartlet fired him on the spot. Leo then had a heart attack, which Barlett then felt guilty over. It was not even known to anybody but Leo, Bartlet, and Dr. Barlett (Jed told her on the way to the hospital that he did this) that Leo was even fired.
@@ZekeUlreyyes. Fitzwallace was killed in the car bombing during the codel in Gaza (when Donna was injured).
I am gladdened that they let John Spencer's character (who had an on-screen heart attack previously) die and be remembered in a dignified manner. He was the keystone of the cast. The program would have never worked without him. I have not been to a church funeral in a long time in which the pall bearers actually carried the casket. Usually, it goes on that folding device with the wheels--I suppose to prevent injuries or accidents.BTW: The whole Toby-leak subplot was terrible. Doing a dishonorable act was so out of character for Toby. The writing really went downhill after Sorkin left. The program really belonged to him. They should have given him whatever he wanted.
I know this was just a television show, but I’m pretty sure the Secret Service would never allow the President of the United States to be an active pallbearer at a funeral.
Let alone the standing president and president elect
I’d pay money to see them try to stop him.
I don't know about now, but according to the NYT's archives, William Howard Taft served as a pallbearer at his father-in-law's funeral.
I simply love The West Wing. Not least because it is so unrelentingly intelligent! To a broader point, however, let me be a thoroughgoing sourpuss and say this. The late, great Christopher Hitchens was right on the money! The primary reason that "We The People" embrace this NONSENSE called religion is because of our FEAR OF DEATH! But the dead are, of course, no less dead just because we invoke the name of Jesus. (Who, I strongly suspect, did NOT even exist in the first place.) When a loved one dies, let's get together and celebrate the life of him or her. But do we really need the rest of the mumbo jumbo? Isn't it time to EVOLVE beyond such foolishness???
Had he no family to lift his coffin? Just work colleagues
Why was Margaret Last? Those two bounced off each other for Years. Such A Disservice.😢
I feel it would have been worse if Margaret had been stuck in the middle of the sequence. She was last before the president. I felt that said something.
I suspect the episode's director saved her for (nearly) last on purpose. They obviously couldn't place her first, but still understood she would be one of the people hit hardest by Leo's death, and didn't want her to be just another face in the middle of the sequence (of people in the pews being shown).
They are carrying the coffin wrong. It is always feet first. And even though Leo was chief of staff it should had been air force carrying the coffin.
He was more than former CoS. By then, he was Vice President-elect.
Catholic funerals are full of ritual and pageantry (if you can afford the fees) but they are stark and cold. They thump Catholicism pretty hard even knowing many in attendance aren't of the faith. I have never found one of these events to be warm or comforting. And nothing about it would draw me to the faith. Yuck!
But it was a great show.
This pastor's sermon is getting under my skin. It's all a bunch of crap. EGAD!
I think you’ll find the “sermon” to be extracts from the Burial of the Dead, Rite One in the Book of Common Prayer (1979).
John Spencer acted superbly on the show, too bad the writers covered his farewell in ever so much religious bullshit propaganda.
He was, in the show, a religious Irish Catholic. That religious bullshit you so blithely dismiss, is part of the of Rite for the Burial of the Dead. It is how Roman Catholics are buried. You don't like it? Fine. But please don't dismiss it just because you're you.
BS propaganda? How ignorant. Compared to what? Party on, the dude is gone? Whatever. 🥶