Note: if you’re listening to this on your cell phone or other portable device, check to make sure that your device’s audio setting isn’t switched to MONO... if it is, you won’t hear the effect when the altered reverb is played - because in mono, total phase cancellation occurs, as a result of the phase reversal/flip being used as a part of the demonstrated reverb effect. I was listening to some old ‘50’s mono recordings a few days ago, so I had set my iPhone’s audio for mono... but I forgot to switch it back to stereo, so when the effect here was being AB’d (@3:20), I heard... the sound of silence. LOL Most people never change their device’s default stereo audio settings, but I thought I’d post this hint, just in case someone encountered this. 😊
Thats really cool. Monitoring the reverb only without the vocal track sounds super cool as well. Very eerie. Thank you, I will definitely employ this trick.
BEWARE: The reverb disappears completely if the mix is played in mono. A better trick would be to use HAAS delay plugin to alter the timing of left and right channels..
True, but they transform into something else when they are played back in mono. With this the vocal is left 100% dry. Haas is also not completely mono compatible and it will not give as wide of an effect as this, but when placed in mono, you will still have some kind of a wet signal. I just wanted viewers to be aware, amateurs use these effects then listen to their song on their iPhones and wonder what happened.
This conversation is an interesting one. A video on how to balance mixing techniques between sounding good on a decent stereo setup, and sounding acceptable on a mono sum setup would be a cool theme.
Everything has a use case. I used this trick a couple weeks ago (note first time in 2 years) when a client wanted way too much reverb on his vocals. I added a second reverb and performed this trick because in stereo the extra reverb sounded okay, but in mono it was a mess. By having the extra verb cancel out in mono (leaving the original reverb) and I was able to have the best of both worlds, In other words, I used the con of this method to my advantage. The number one tip I can give to anyone is to learn as many techniques as you can and learn their use cases. There are times for eq before compression and compression before eq, and there are times for this technique as well, my original comment was that its not a technique that should be used for EVERY mix.
ha :D that sounds like when you unplug your headphones just slightly from your audio playback device while having a broken cable. i always found this effect very spooky. it's so wide it seems like speakers shouldn't be able to even sound like that :O
Great I stumbled over your channel yesterday, really amazing videos with finally different kind of mixing tricks on the tube! very helpful, especially for what I am working on at the moment, that upward downward compression tut is a healer! thanks so much for your "helping hands". I was wondering if you may find time to focus more on "offset in depht" in one of your tut´s. There are some producers out there where I always wonder how they are able to build this 3d kinda feeling in their mix. Especially when instruments sound above and underneath each other with good amount of using st. pan and reverb. But I always wonder then, because those instruments or sounds still sound more dry then wet, so to speak...it is really impressive and I don´t know if there´s a farmula to show on your channel, most of it is just a great artistic expression of course. thx!
***** thanks for your fast reply, will check this out! ...still some questions where I am not sure how to use it in the correct way. Especially when it comes to the decision using reverb pre or post fade. When using vocals it makes sense using it pre fade...but what when it comes to f.e. a synth arpeggio (which fills a lot of the spectrum) which is the theme of the track and stays steady, it just changes the dynamic range (for that I use your downwards comp example, thx for that : )....does it make sense to use reverb prefader? sorry for that specific question which doens´t really belong to this topic.
Great vid !! one question if i may: can this technique be applied to stereo sounds?...ex:sending the stereo sound to 2 different aux channels / hard panning one left one right / sending the aux channels to a stereo bus with the reverb on / and then phase flip one of the aux -hard panned channels......(?) thnx
Great vid as usual! Ozone 7 does not have this option for individual channel phase reverse. I tried putting a delay with 0% mix and flip one side and I think it works but the Ozone imaging meter isn't dancing like it is in your example. Plus I cant find the offset option in Ozone 7 either.... Thanks D!
Send the vocal to return track. Just add EQ, Reverb, and the Utility effects. You can flip the phase using the utility effect --- enable either Phz-L or Phz-R.
This was rad! Sounds great! So If I understand correctly, to simplify , I send the track to a stereo aux, i do some hi&lo-passing , then i need a dual-mono plugin where i can flip the phase on one of the mono channels (is this what the trim plugin does, im on cubase so i dont really get what the trim plugin does?), and finally I put a dual-mono reverb on the chain? Cheers!
when you rout a mono signal to a stereo group in cubase it automatically copys the signal to both sides, so that's pretty much a dual mono track isn't it?
low frequencies usually disappear that way, higher frequencies will have texturized sound. And it may not happen at all in full mix, when more stuff playing, more chance in sparse mix.
like stereo shaper in fl studio, then. thanks! so this ghost reverb is pretty much a side reverb from the point of view of reverb plugins thats have a mid/side option?
@@mixbustv I guess I mix for both mono and stereo. I would understand that in the case of a short delay, you flip the phase, you have a wonderful wide efx in stereo, but it doesn't conflict when played in mono. I don't agree when it comes to reverb though, because many devices, such as JBL GO, cell phones or countless club systems are completely MONO or they are also MONO in some areas, in the case of a club. It would be wierd to slam a track on the beach on a random BOSE mono speaker to realize that the voice is completely dry. Or using the hass effect without checking it in mono on some rides to end up having some really annoying flangy side effect. Well, I guess it's an option of course, not really a fan of the extreme side of widening I'll have to say.
@@mixbustv Agree and not agree. Making stuff working well in mono also avoids collateral panning damages and make everything more cohesive and better separated when played in stereo. Regarding extreme widening, I agree with you we have to deal with what we like, and decide what we wanna sacrifice, I myself not a fan of extreme widening, and especially on reverb. But yea, it's an option we have
@@mixbustv So engineer Rick Snoman explains the concept very well. The AES gave it a name but I truly don't remember that to be honest. So he says that for example, mixing the drums in mono first, will help enhance the frequency masking problems between instruments, so that when panning we will have more clear separation without any bleedings that could still cause masking problems even when the instruments are panned away from each other. He also pans in Mono first to ensure extreme phase coherence but I don't really do that myself cause I think it's a bit of a limitation. So basically mono compatibility is a huge benefit for a better stereo image. But that type of monitoring is not mandatory of course, I am just saying that for me it helped a looot, and I don't do phantom center but pure mono with an avantone mixcube. That said, I agree with you that to some extent we decide what to sacrifice and what not, but I have never seen any benefits from extreme widening ear candies when it comes to reverb and main elements. My concern was that in the video you start doing the widening efx om the vocals, and when monoed, the vocals sound conpletely dry. I was just saying that for some Efx I maybe wouldn't care myself as well, but having some vocals extremely effected and then hearing them dry in a club it wiould be wierd. But that's just how I see it, I guess everyone has its own point of view, and that's the beauty of it
@@mixbustv I agree with you that some stuff is made just for the stereo mix, I just don't see reverberation as an "accessory", even if it's intended as an effect. I can see small delays widening as an effect, but not reverb, and especially on vocals, too much of a change there. I just don't see the point of 100% cancellation on main elements reverb, that's it. I think a 100% widened reverb made just for stereo ruins the stereo experience, and makes it very wierd in mono systems, but that's just my point of view. I will have a listen to some metal records, but I'll have to say that until now, I didn't really see 100% cancellation on main element reverb. But yea, everyone has a sort of view on this, I've heard top engineers saying completely opposite things on that matter. My concern is just about the reverb though, other effects have another impact when collpased into mono and cancelled. And of course, I am not saying is wrong, let's be clear. I think you are extremely skilled on practically everything on the mixing side, just here didn't see the point, but not saying is wrong.
I am trying to help you, you are PHASE REVERSING one side of stereo audio! I can hear it's out of phase, that's your 3d sound your talking about, that is not good to hear if you're an engineer. Simple test, press your mono button & see what happens! Look up what phase cancellation is all about..comb filtering etc etc. why engineers have a mono button. I won't post any more but I have to tell you this is wrong to advise people to do this. GL
@boomish69 I have to agree with you, by mistake I was listening to the video in mono and when he engages the trim... I could't hear anything but a dry vocal :(... I'll never use this trick...
Love the sound of that effect. Great trick to know to add depth to a mix that needs to be wider. Thank you
Note: if you’re listening to this on your cell phone or other portable device, check to make sure that your device’s audio setting isn’t switched to MONO... if it is, you won’t hear the effect when the altered reverb is played - because in mono, total phase cancellation occurs, as a result of the phase reversal/flip being used as a part of the demonstrated reverb effect.
I was listening to some old ‘50’s mono recordings a few days ago, so I had set my iPhone’s audio for mono... but I forgot to switch it back to stereo, so when the effect here was being AB’d (@3:20), I heard... the sound of silence. LOL
Most people never change their device’s default stereo audio settings, but I thought I’d post this hint, just in case someone encountered this.
😊
This is fye 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
The other day, I asked about mono reverb, but this takes its use to the next level. Exactly what I've been missing!
That sounds more like natural reverb to me. Pretty cool.
any VST reverb plugin for that trick ?
So simple yet so powerful!!!
Thats really cool. Monitoring the reverb only without the vocal track sounds super cool as well. Very eerie. Thank you, I will definitely employ this trick.
BEWARE: The reverb disappears completely if the mix is played in mono.
A better trick would be to use HAAS delay plugin to alter the timing of left and right channels..
True, but they transform into something else when they are played back in mono. With this the vocal is left 100% dry. Haas is also not completely mono compatible and it will not give as wide of an effect as this, but when placed in mono, you will still have some kind of a wet signal.
I just wanted viewers to be aware, amateurs use these effects then listen to their song on their iPhones and wonder what happened.
This conversation is an interesting one. A video on how to balance mixing techniques between sounding good on a decent stereo setup, and sounding acceptable on a mono sum setup would be a cool theme.
Everything has a use case. I used this trick a couple weeks ago (note first time in 2 years) when a client wanted way too much reverb on his vocals. I added a second reverb and performed this trick because in stereo the extra reverb sounded okay, but in mono it was a mess. By having the extra verb cancel out in mono (leaving the original reverb) and I was able to have the best of both worlds, In other words, I used the con of this method to my advantage.
The number one tip I can give to anyone is to learn as many techniques as you can and learn their use cases. There are times for eq before compression and compression before eq, and there are times for this technique as well, my original comment was that its not a technique that should be used for EVERY mix.
This trick is killer!
I think a lot of people are sleeping on this..appreciate tis dope information
How does this translate back to a mono mix?
Thanks a lot mate cool trick your Tube channel is helping lots of people.
ha :D that sounds like when you unplug your headphones just slightly from your audio playback device while having a broken cable. i always found this effect very spooky. it's so wide it seems like speakers shouldn't be able to even sound like that :O
Cool I'm gonna try this out right now.
amazing!!
I like how it sounds on keys, but on vocal it's 2wide4me, I like then add dry/wetted bx_solo in that case, or narrow with stereo imager.
Yeah very useful thanks! hoping a have access to a dual mono verb in logic
thanks man very interesting also in mono it was coherent
Awesome video, respect!
What is dual mono? How do you open a dual mono
Hi. thanks, Its realy cool trick and i think i hear it all the time in music.
Great I stumbled over your channel yesterday, really amazing videos with finally different kind of mixing tricks on the tube! very helpful, especially for what I am working on at the moment, that upward downward compression tut is a healer! thanks so much for your "helping hands". I was wondering if you may find time to focus more on "offset in depht" in one of your tut´s. There are some producers out there where I always wonder how they are able to build this 3d kinda feeling in their mix. Especially when instruments sound above and underneath each other with good amount of using st. pan and reverb. But I always wonder then, because those instruments or sounds still sound more dry then wet, so to speak...it is really impressive and I don´t know if there´s a farmula to show on your channel, most of it is just a great artistic expression of course. thx!
***** thanks for your fast reply, will check this out! ...still some questions where I am not sure how to use it in the correct way. Especially when it comes to the decision using reverb pre or post fade. When using vocals it makes sense using it pre fade...but what when it comes to f.e. a synth arpeggio (which fills a lot of the spectrum) which is the theme of the track and stays steady, it just changes the dynamic range (for that I use your downwards comp example, thx for that : )....does it make sense to use reverb prefader?
sorry for that specific question which doens´t really belong to this topic.
Thanks for you videos Very helpful (Y)
I subscribe :)
Great vid !! one question if i may: can this technique be applied to stereo sounds?...ex:sending the stereo sound to 2 different aux channels / hard panning one left one right / sending the aux channels to a stereo bus with the reverb on / and then phase flip one of the aux -hard panned channels......(?) thnx
Great vid as usual! Ozone 7 does not have this option for individual channel phase reverse. I tried putting a delay with 0% mix and flip one side and I think it works but the Ozone imaging meter isn't dancing like it is in your example. Plus I cant find the offset option in Ozone 7 either.... Thanks D!
cool fx but it does not work in mono. Thats a problem. There are other ways to do this without sacrificing mono compatibility
@@mixbustv definitely is an issue. Can't hear almost anything in Mono, due to Phase Cancellation.
How would i achieve this effect in Ableton?
Send the vocal to return track. Just add EQ, Reverb, and the Utility effects. You can flip the phase using the utility effect --- enable either Phz-L or Phz-R.
@MARVILTRON
thank you so much i'll try that!
this is great!
This was rad! Sounds great! So If I understand correctly, to simplify , I send the track to a stereo aux, i do some hi&lo-passing , then i need a dual-mono plugin where i can flip the phase on one of the mono channels (is this what the trim plugin does, im on cubase so i dont really get what the trim plugin does?), and finally I put a dual-mono reverb on the chain? Cheers!
***** Sweet! It was perfectly explained! :) I was wondering do you happen to do online private lessons?
хахахах и ти ли си тука бе : D
Can you help me how to do this in cubase? Would be awesome!
when you rout a mono signal to a stereo group in cubase it automatically copys the signal to both sides, so that's pretty much a dual mono track isn't it?
the reverb disappears in mono ???
No it's simply lower in level like every stereo effects, to some extent. That's why they're stereo. ruclips.net/video/ZZ7LjBfZxwk/видео.html
low frequencies usually disappear that way, higher frequencies will have texturized sound. And it may not happen at all in full mix, when more stuff playing, more chance in sparse mix.
it is Bobby Owsinski's trick
really like the result but i dont really understand what that "duo mono trim" plugin is. can u explain pls? or just name a vst alternative?
like stereo shaper in fl studio, then. thanks!
so this ghost reverb is pretty much a side reverb from the point of view of reverb plugins thats have a mid/side option?
cool great video
amazinggg...
It completely disappears in mono. Completely. What's the point then?...just asking, no hate
@@mixbustv I guess I mix for both mono and stereo. I would understand that in the case of a short delay, you flip the phase, you have a wonderful wide efx in stereo, but it doesn't conflict when played in mono. I don't agree when it comes to reverb though, because many devices, such as JBL GO, cell phones or countless club systems are completely MONO or they are also MONO in some areas, in the case of a club. It would be wierd to slam a track on the beach on a random BOSE mono speaker to realize that the voice is completely dry. Or using the hass effect without checking it in mono on some rides to end up having some really annoying flangy side effect. Well, I guess it's an option of course, not really a fan of the extreme side of widening I'll have to say.
@@mixbustv Agree and not agree. Making stuff working well in mono also avoids collateral panning damages and make everything more cohesive and better separated when played in stereo. Regarding extreme widening, I agree with you we have to deal with what we like, and decide what we wanna sacrifice, I myself not a fan of extreme widening, and especially on reverb. But yea, it's an option we have
@@mixbustv So engineer Rick Snoman explains the concept very well. The AES gave it a name but I truly don't remember that to be honest. So he says that for example, mixing the drums in mono first, will help enhance the frequency masking problems between instruments, so that when panning we will have more clear separation without any bleedings that could still cause masking problems even when the instruments are panned away from each other. He also pans in Mono first to ensure extreme phase coherence but I don't really do that myself cause I think it's a bit of a limitation. So basically mono compatibility is a huge benefit for a better stereo image. But that type of monitoring is not mandatory of course, I am just saying that for me it helped a looot, and I don't do phantom center but pure mono with an avantone mixcube. That said, I agree with you that to some extent we decide what to sacrifice and what not, but I have never seen any benefits from extreme widening ear candies when it comes to reverb and main elements. My concern was that in the video you start doing the widening efx om the vocals, and when monoed, the vocals sound conpletely dry. I was just saying that for some Efx I maybe wouldn't care myself as well, but having some vocals extremely effected and then hearing them dry in a club it wiould be wierd. But that's just how I see it, I guess everyone has its own point of view, and that's the beauty of it
@@mixbustv I agree with you that some stuff is made just for the stereo mix, I just don't see reverberation as an "accessory", even if it's intended as an effect. I can see small delays widening as an effect, but not reverb, and especially on vocals, too much of a change there. I just don't see the point of 100% cancellation on main elements reverb, that's it. I think a 100% widened reverb made just for stereo ruins the stereo experience, and makes it very wierd in mono systems, but that's just my point of view. I will have a listen to some metal records, but I'll have to say that until now, I didn't really see 100% cancellation on main element reverb. But yea, everyone has a sort of view on this, I've heard top engineers saying completely opposite things on that matter. My concern is just about the reverb though, other effects have another impact when collpased into mono and cancelled. And of course, I am not saying is wrong, let's be clear. I think you are extremely skilled on practically everything on the mixing side, just here didn't see the point, but not saying is wrong.
add bx_solo after it, choose L or R and dry/wet it. It may unbalance panning a little, look at vectroscope, you can pan or leave like that.
very cool? not if it's played in mono!
I am trying to help you, you are PHASE REVERSING one side of stereo audio! I can hear it's out of phase, that's your 3d sound your talking about, that is not good to hear if you're an engineer. Simple test, press your mono button & see what happens! Look up what phase cancellation is all about..comb filtering etc etc. why engineers have a mono button. I won't post any more but I have to tell you this is wrong to advise people to do this. GL
@boomish69 I have to agree with you, by mistake I was listening to the video in mono and when he engages the trim... I could't hear anything but a dry vocal :(... I'll never use this trick...