Thanks for taking the time to comment. My x35 and the Bosch e-bike in the video are very different beasts. If I had to boil this down into a general statement, the x35 is a system that helps the rider whereas that Bosch e-bike the rider tends to help the motor system. As somebody that wants to ride a bike (not a motorbike) I think I still still prefer the x35. The x35 is simply smoother and less intrusive. 🍰🧁
Always very informativeTerry. Looks like you are flying along. I found the mid drive so much more efficient on my new bike. I had the D30 (x35) and now have the Scott Solace 50NM (TQ mid drive) which is 12.5 kg and is much more suited to my lower leg issues and weight. Almost down to 100kg from 115kg. Riding 200 miles a week indoors at the mo.
Mid drive all the way for me. TQ is for me a perfect system and unlike the X20 or X35 does not suffer from assist degradation when going up a steep hill and you cannot manage a fast cadence the motor struggles to deliver. He TQ is noticeably stronger on hills but not much difference on the flat.
Please, can you ask me an easier question? I'll do my best though. Feel free to ask follow-up questions if I don't cover everything you need. I'm not sure what you mean by general purpose. I'll assume you mean one bike for everything. A lot of this will depend on the primary use of the bike and the requirements of the rider. If the bike is to be used for riding fast (average>25kph) and not too hilly terrain the hub motors are a good choice. It just gives a little extra help on the hills and into strong headwinds. If you ride a lot of steep hills, carry equipment like touring gear or you want the bike to do more of the work then a mid-motor like the Bosch is a good choice. I should say though the Bosch CX motor gives more 'power' than most people will need for riding on the road. There are exceptions though, like hauling heavy loads. In general though, the mid-mount motor will do most things, whereas the hub motors are more specialised. Hence for general riding the mid-mount motor would be my choice. I probably wouldn't choose a Bosch CX though. Something around the 50-60Nm is ideal. In the Bosch range that would be the newer SX motor. I have also used a bike with a Fazua Ride 50 motor. I think it gives just about the right amount of motive force, although at 250Wh, the battery is a bit small. An important aspect for general purpose riding is also the battery capacity. For me a minimum of 400Wh, preferably 500Wh is a must. Strangely enough, this general purpose bike is something I've been pondering. As such, the Canyon Pathlite:ON SL (www.canyon.com/en-gb/electric-bikes/electric-touring-bikes/pathlite-on/sl/pathlite-on-sl-4/3605.html?dwvar_3605_pv_rahmenfarbe=GY) looks interesting.
@@FiveMinuteVelo Many thanks for your comprehensive reply, just what I wanted to know, I ride a non e gravel bike at home, North East Scotland, hills, tracks, all sorts, we travel in a motorhome, for quite a few months in a year, mostly in Europe, when the motorhome is parked up we use public transport and the bikes for getting around and shopping and the like, which is fine but we are limited in how far we can go and with the shopping carrying the weight, hence the interest in e- assist bikes. I have been looking at a few, including the Fazua based bikes, I like the idea of that system but it does seem to suffer from reliability issues, possibly more than the bosch systems, of course that may be a case of a small number of negative experiences being more vocal than the satisfied ones. I will check out the bosch SX bikes, Thanks again.
Note: Motorcycles are even more fun since you don't have to bother with pedals. My question is how much work do you want the motor/battery to do vs what you contribute? No comments on how the bike felt pedaling with zero assist other than slow and heavy. Do these things feel like you're turning a bunch of gears inside the mid-motor rather than pedaling a bicycle? That was my experience on the single mid-motor MTB I tried - YUCK!
I used to ride motorcycles so I know where you are coming from. For me it is a balancing act, leg:motor power ratio. I like to cycle and hence put in effort. For general riding the X35 is great on low or mid levels. It saves me effort on the uphills which does not tire my brain too much. I keep the highest power output for emergencies when I'm not feeling too great. The motor cutting out at 25 kph is also helpful as most of the time I'm riding without motor assistance. As for that, Bosch CX bike, it was superficially nice to have the high level of assistance, but ultimately unsatisfying. I'm thinking for touring, where the bike is loaded up, the higher rated, mid-drive motors would be more suitable. I am planning a deeper dive comparison between different motor drive systems.
I love 🍰, if you could leave some in the comments that would be great. Also, 🍰 emojis are calorie free 👍.
Mahle x35 gravelbike rider here. very interesting to see a comparison! will check the other Videos 👍
Thanks for taking the time to comment. My x35 and the Bosch e-bike in the video are very different beasts. If I had to boil this down into a general statement, the x35 is a system that helps the rider whereas that Bosch e-bike the rider tends to help the motor system. As somebody that wants to ride a bike (not a motorbike) I think I still still prefer the x35. The x35 is simply smoother and less intrusive. 🍰🧁
Great explanation of the difference between the two types of motor 👍
Thank you very much. In the future I'll be publishing a video with a lot more detail.
@@FiveMinuteVelo I look forward to it
Always very informativeTerry. Looks like you are flying along. I found the mid drive so much more efficient on my new bike. I had the D30 (x35) and now have the Scott Solace 50NM (TQ mid drive) which is 12.5 kg and is much more suited to my lower leg issues and weight. Almost down to 100kg from 115kg. Riding 200 miles a week indoors at the mo.
I’m debating between an x20 bike and a bike with the same TQ. Do you feel the jump in torque? The x20 has even less torque than the x35.
Mid drive all the way for me. TQ is for me a perfect system and unlike the X20 or X35 does not suffer from assist degradation when going up a steep hill and you cannot manage a fast cadence the motor struggles to deliver. He TQ is noticeably stronger on hills but not much difference on the flat.
Great vid I really enjoyed it. I am looking forward to the next one.
Can I ask you Terry if you had to choose one bike for general use would it be the bosch motor or the X35.
Please, can you ask me an easier question? I'll do my best though. Feel free to ask follow-up questions if I don't cover everything you need.
I'm not sure what you mean by general purpose. I'll assume you mean one bike for everything. A lot of this will depend on the primary use of the bike and the requirements of the rider.
If the bike is to be used for riding fast (average>25kph) and not too hilly terrain the hub motors are a good choice. It just gives a little extra help on the hills and into strong headwinds.
If you ride a lot of steep hills, carry equipment like touring gear or you want the bike to do more of the work then a mid-motor like the Bosch is a good choice. I should say though the Bosch CX motor gives more 'power' than most people will need for riding on the road. There are exceptions though, like hauling heavy loads.
In general though, the mid-mount motor will do most things, whereas the hub motors are more specialised. Hence for general riding the mid-mount motor would be my choice. I probably wouldn't choose a Bosch CX though. Something around the 50-60Nm is ideal. In the Bosch range that would be the newer SX motor.
I have also used a bike with a Fazua Ride 50 motor. I think it gives just about the right amount of motive force, although at 250Wh, the battery is a bit small.
An important aspect for general purpose riding is also the battery capacity. For me a minimum of 400Wh, preferably 500Wh is a must.
Strangely enough, this general purpose bike is something I've been pondering. As such, the Canyon Pathlite:ON SL (www.canyon.com/en-gb/electric-bikes/electric-touring-bikes/pathlite-on/sl/pathlite-on-sl-4/3605.html?dwvar_3605_pv_rahmenfarbe=GY) looks interesting.
@@FiveMinuteVelo Many thanks for your comprehensive reply, just what I wanted to know, I ride a non e gravel bike at home, North East Scotland, hills, tracks, all sorts, we travel in a motorhome, for quite a few months in a year, mostly in Europe, when the motorhome is parked up we use public transport and the bikes for getting around and shopping and the like, which is fine but we are limited in how far we can go and with the shopping carrying the weight, hence the interest in e- assist bikes. I have been looking at a few, including the Fazua based bikes, I like the idea of that system but it does seem to suffer from reliability issues, possibly more than the bosch systems, of course that may be a case of a small number of negative experiences being more vocal than the satisfied ones. I will check out the bosch SX bikes, Thanks again.
Note: Motorcycles are even more fun since you don't have to bother with pedals. My question is how much work do you want the motor/battery to do vs what you contribute? No comments on how the bike felt pedaling with zero assist other than slow and heavy. Do these things feel like you're turning a bunch of gears inside the mid-motor rather than pedaling a bicycle? That was my experience on the single mid-motor MTB I tried - YUCK!
I used to ride motorcycles so I know where you are coming from.
For me it is a balancing act, leg:motor power ratio. I like to cycle and hence put in effort. For general riding the X35 is great on low or mid levels. It saves me effort on the uphills which does not tire my brain too much. I keep the highest power output for emergencies when I'm not feeling too great. The motor cutting out at 25 kph is also helpful as most of the time I'm riding without motor assistance.
As for that, Bosch CX bike, it was superficially nice to have the high level of assistance, but ultimately unsatisfying.
I'm thinking for touring, where the bike is loaded up, the higher rated, mid-drive motors would be more suitable.
I am planning a deeper dive comparison between different motor drive systems.