Thank you very much, your feedback makes the effort of producing these videos worthwhile. If there's anything I have missed and that you would like to know, just ask.
Good content but I have to disagree with the noise. The x20 is definitely louder than the x35+ and x30. It might be lighter and it comes with some nice features but we haven’t sold some e-bikes cause of the noise.
Thankyou for your input. You are not the only person to tell me the X20 is much noisier than the X35+ system. I can only go by my test experience and I did not notice any significant difference in the noise level. The noise may be bike dependent as it is possible that the sound could resonate in certain frames or others 'damp' it out. Another explanation could be my ageing hearing, my high pitch sound sensitivity is not what it was. However, I have to stick with my own experience, but accept that many other people may not be wrong! 🎂🍰
Sorry but surely one of the main benefits that you mention in the dialogue but not in your summary of the benefits is the connection system of the X20 allowing the rear wheel to be dropped out easily if you get a puncture.
The AMC on the X20 system is certainly an attractive feature. I did think of putting it forward as a major benefit because of this superficial attractiveness. However, I got to thinking, in the last year I've only taken the wheel out three or four times. Although undoing and unplugging the x35 system when changing a wheel can be a bit of a chore, I haven't had to do it that often, and I wouldn't expect others to either. It was for that reason that I put it down as not being a great benefit. I do accept that others have different priorities to me and if it's seen as a benefit to them, who am I to argue?. Some may think the handlebar mounted button changes are a big benefit, others the straight pull spokes, others the reduction in weight ... I could go on. I'm not trying to make a decision for the viewer, just putting my views out there.
Great review Terry. You know Lucy will never see this, being 'too geeky' 😂. My wife's Ribble SLe X35 equipped has been great, and the Mahle head unit was worth it as she couldn't get on with the glowing button. With very light carbon rims and 105 Di2 it has been an excellent choice once minor sizing adjustments were made, but the biggest benefit is ePacing. My FTP is around 250W but I'm bad at hill climbing, being more of a rouleur. My wife isn't an all out cyclist and her FTP is probably
@@calvin1966vintage > you make some great points, particularly about 'leveling the playing field' between partners. Sadly, my partner does not cycle, so not only do I lose out on her company, but I also lose out on the excuses. I dare say if she put her mind to it she would be faster than me 😭. Never mind, I love cycling anyway.
Interesting take, thanks. I have one of each and frankly can't tell much difference at all when RIDING 'em. In my case the larger battery spec'd with X20 kind of cancels it's lighter weight over X35. As to power delivery I wonder if the settings used made the difference? Both of mine are set to provide just 30% of the system power at assist level 1 and unless the climb is steep I ride both of 'em with assist at level 0 that is easily controlled by the Pulsar "brain" unit that works with both. I DO like the X20's simpler rear wheel setup and not having to have a big wrench in my saddlebag just-in-case, but that's a minor + IMHO.
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 > thanks, useful info. It's nice to know that I'm not too far off. Yes, the x35 set at 30% will be pretty much undetectable as an e-bike in normal uphill riding - that is until you turn the motor off 😲.
@@andrewlancefield3730 > I didn't notice any difference in the noise level between the two motors. The x20 bike did have chunkier knobbly tires which made a bit more noise, so maybe this drown out the motor noise a bit. However, compared to other motors that I've used, both of the Mahle ones are very quiet.
I have the desiknio bike with x20 system. It doesn't have a torque sensor tho. And from the app I can only see it giving max of 200W of power, instead of 250W.
To the best of my knowledge, the X20 system must have a bottom bracket based torque sensor. Happy to be proven wrong though. There is a lack of clarity in the ebike laws. The maximum legal (sustained) power is 250W; as I understand it this is 250W of electrical power. As a general rule the electrical to mechanical conversion is about 80% efficient. 80% of 250W is 200W. This could be the explanation for your low power reading or it may not. As I said, the law is not at all clear.
I managed a 10% grade, nothing much steeper where I did the test. On those grades I did not feel any great benefit, although I thought I could detect some, but not a lot. Do you have experience of both motors? In my experience, the hub motor is not so good for steep gradients because the motor cannot be geared down like a mid-motor. For that reason I would not recommend a hub motor for steep stuff.
@@FiveMinuteVelo How steep are you talking about? Rode my X35 bike up 12+% grade a few weeks ago with Level 1 assist at 30%, a climb that was tough for me even a decade ago with a triple crankset. I wonder what people expect, an e-moped or a bit of help going up when you need it?
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 > true, a person's expectations are important. I, like you, like to do most of the work, but with the motor assisting. However, in an emergency, due to my medical condition, I like to have the ability to crank up the power. Other people, with different medical conditions, for instance, heart conditions, may be advised to keep their heart rate down and they may need more assistance. Anyway, irrespective of that, the idea was to compare the two systems, I didn't want to make judgements on how people would use them. Sorry about the copious use of comas.
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 > My maximum climb during the test was about 10%. I did feel a bit of extra mid-range grunt on the motor, but not a lot. I accept that all certain grades, the difference may be more noticeable.
Thanks for the video. Ref your comments on nw power till you reach 8km. I only have a X35 equipped Vibe, and I am pretty sure that the power assist is related to pedal cadence. I dont think the X35 has a pwer torque meter, which you tell us the X20 does. Consequently, when starting off, make sure you in a low gear and get the cadence going, you will soon feel the force!
@@BrentDavidson-z5l > I purchased these bars by AliExpress. Here is a link: I just found this on AliExpress: ￡48.99 | 2019 New EC90 carbon fiber carbon fiber highway bicycle thighed handle carbon handlebar road bike handlebar 400 420 440MM a.aliexpress.com/_EQK7LtR I have also made a review of the bars: ruclips.net/video/XP2QH62zlBc/видео.htmlsi=ovYQbl50j0GJLn46 I hope this helps 🎂🍰🧁
@@b.griffin317 > you are partly correct. Mahle seems to be numbering their products with lower numbers on the higher end (more expensive) products; it's not really about the date of release. For instance, the x30 system has just been released , which as you might expect, fits in between the x20 and the x35. I'll be publishing a video about riding the x20 and x35 systems later today. I'm currently working on an x30 video.
@@NusinkisTV > no, it doesn't. The x35 system does not have torque and cadence sensors and hence rider power cannot be determined. The motor is either on or off, that is giving a percentage of the full power or nothing. You can estimate the power by the percentage level that you set the power to, but it is only an estimate. So for instance, if the level was set at 50%. One could assume that the motor is giving a 125 W when the motor is engaged. There is a no display of the actual motor power.
@@FiveMinuteVelo How come the X20 system was short lived before Mahle moved quickly to the X30? It's pretty difficult to find any bikes for sale with the X20 system installed. Were there some design issues?
@funksoulbrother3620 > no, the X20 remains in the product line. There are now four main products, the x35, the x30, the x20, and the newly introduced XS versions of the x30 and x20 . You can still buy X20 based bikes, but they tend to be in short supply.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
I love 🍰, if you could leave some in the comments that would be great. Also, 🍰 emojis are calorie free 👍.
Best x35 vs x20 content I have seen, thank you for your insights
Thank you very much, your feedback makes the effort of producing these videos worthwhile.
If there's anything I have missed and that you would like to know, just ask.
Great stuff, thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for taking the time to comment.
Good content but I have to disagree with the noise. The x20 is definitely louder than the x35+ and x30. It might be lighter and it comes with some nice features but we haven’t sold some e-bikes cause of the noise.
Thankyou for your input. You are not the only person to tell me the X20 is much noisier than the X35+ system. I can only go by my test experience and I did not notice any significant difference in the noise level. The noise may be bike dependent as it is possible that the sound could resonate in certain frames or others 'damp' it out. Another explanation could be my ageing hearing, my high pitch sound sensitivity is not what it was. However, I have to stick with my own experience, but accept that many other people may not be wrong! 🎂🍰
Sorry but surely one of the main benefits that you mention in the dialogue but not in your summary of the benefits is the connection system of the X20 allowing the rear wheel to be dropped out easily if you get a puncture.
The AMC on the X20 system is certainly an attractive feature. I did think of putting it forward as a major benefit because of this superficial attractiveness. However, I got to thinking, in the last year I've only taken the wheel out three or four times. Although undoing and unplugging the x35 system when changing a wheel can be a bit of a chore, I haven't had to do it that often, and I wouldn't expect others to either. It was for that reason that I put it down as not being a great benefit.
I do accept that others have different priorities to me and if it's seen as a benefit to them, who am I to argue?. Some may think the handlebar mounted button changes are a big benefit, others the straight pull spokes, others the reduction in weight ... I could go on.
I'm not trying to make a decision for the viewer, just putting my views out there.
Great review Terry. You know Lucy will never see this, being 'too geeky' 😂.
My wife's Ribble SLe X35 equipped has been great, and the Mahle head unit was worth it as she couldn't get on with the glowing button.
With very light carbon rims and 105 Di2 it has been an excellent choice once minor sizing adjustments were made, but the biggest benefit is ePacing.
My FTP is around 250W but I'm bad at hill climbing, being more of a rouleur. My wife isn't an all out cyclist and her FTP is probably
@@calvin1966vintage > you make some great points, particularly about 'leveling the playing field' between partners. Sadly, my partner does not cycle, so not only do I lose out on her company, but I also lose out on the excuses. I dare say if she put her mind to it she would be faster than me 😭. Never mind, I love cycling anyway.
@@calvin1966vintage > oh yes I need 🍰, see the pinned comment.
Interesting take, thanks. I have one of each and frankly can't tell much difference at all when RIDING 'em. In my case the larger battery spec'd with X20 kind of cancels it's lighter weight over X35. As to power delivery I wonder if the settings used made the difference? Both of mine are set to provide just 30% of the system power at assist level 1 and unless the climb is steep I ride both of 'em with assist at level 0 that is easily controlled by the Pulsar "brain" unit that works with both. I DO like the X20's simpler rear wheel setup and not having to have a big wrench in my saddlebag just-in-case, but that's a minor + IMHO.
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 > thanks, useful info. It's nice to know that I'm not too far off. Yes, the x35 set at 30% will be pretty much undetectable as an e-bike in normal uphill riding - that is until you turn the motor off 😲.
Agree absolutely can't tell the difference at all, other than x20 louder
@@andrewlancefield3730 > I didn't notice any difference in the noise level between the two motors. The x20 bike did have chunkier knobbly tires which made a bit more noise, so maybe this drown out the motor noise a bit. However, compared to other motors that I've used, both of the Mahle ones are very quiet.
@@andrewlancefield3730 I would say the opposite but it's not much either way.
I have the desiknio bike with x20 system. It doesn't have a torque sensor tho. And from the app I can only see it giving max of 200W of power, instead of 250W.
To the best of my knowledge, the X20 system must have a bottom bracket based torque sensor. Happy to be proven wrong though.
There is a lack of clarity in the ebike laws. The maximum legal (sustained) power is 250W; as I understand it this is 250W of electrical power. As a general rule the electrical to mechanical conversion is about 80% efficient. 80% of 250W is 200W. This could be the explanation for your low power reading or it may not. As I said, the law is not at all clear.
Try going up a steep gradient.
.... Then you see torque differences.
I managed a 10% grade, nothing much steeper where I did the test. On those grades I did not feel any great benefit, although I thought I could detect some, but not a lot.
Do you have experience of both motors?
In my experience, the hub motor is not so good for steep gradients because the motor cannot be geared down like a mid-motor. For that reason I would not recommend a hub motor for steep stuff.
@@FiveMinuteVelo How steep are you talking about? Rode my X35 bike up 12+% grade a few weeks ago with Level 1 assist at 30%, a climb that was tough for me even a decade ago with a triple crankset. I wonder what people expect, an e-moped or a bit of help going up when you need it?
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 > true, a person's expectations are important. I, like you, like to do most of the work, but with the motor assisting. However, in an emergency, due to my medical condition, I like to have the ability to crank up the power. Other people, with different medical conditions, for instance, heart conditions, may be advised to keep their heart rate down and they may need more assistance. Anyway, irrespective of that, the idea was to compare the two systems, I didn't want to make judgements on how people would use them. Sorry about the copious use of comas.
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 > My maximum climb during the test was about 10%. I did feel a bit of extra mid-range grunt on the motor, but not a lot. I accept that all certain grades, the difference may be more noticeable.
Thanks for the video. Ref your comments on nw power till you reach 8km. I only have a X35 equipped Vibe, and I am pretty sure that the power assist is related to pedal cadence. I dont think the X35 has a pwer torque meter, which you tell us the X20 does. Consequently, when starting off, make sure you in a low gear and get the cadence going, you will soon feel the force!
The handlebars you had on the first bike (aero carbon, funky flat section) what brand /model bars are they?
@@BrentDavidson-z5l > I purchased these bars by AliExpress. Here is a link:
I just found this on AliExpress:
￡48.99 | 2019 New EC90 carbon fiber carbon fiber highway bicycle thighed handle carbon handlebar road bike handlebar 400 420 440MM
a.aliexpress.com/_EQK7LtR
I have also made a review of the bars:
ruclips.net/video/XP2QH62zlBc/видео.htmlsi=ovYQbl50j0GJLn46
I hope this helps 🎂🍰🧁
The X35 is the older system in spite of having a higher model number? Or do I misunderstand?
@@b.griffin317 > you are partly correct. Mahle seems to be numbering their products with lower numbers on the higher end (more expensive) products; it's not really about the date of release. For instance, the x30 system has just been released , which as you might expect, fits in between the x20 and the x35.
I'll be publishing a video about riding the x20 and x35 systems later today. I'm currently working on an x30 video.
Does the mysmartbike app with x35 show real time motor power output based on pedal input and assistance level?
@@NusinkisTV > no, it doesn't. The x35 system does not have torque and cadence sensors and hence rider power cannot be determined.
The motor is either on or off, that is giving a percentage of the full power or nothing. You can estimate the power by the percentage level that you set the power to, but it is only an estimate. So for instance, if the level was set at 50%. One could assume that the motor is giving a 125 W when the motor is engaged. There is a no display of the actual motor power.
The X20 system didn't last long. Why was that?
@@funksoulbrother3620 > sorry, I don't understand the ❓. Could you ask it in a different way for my simple little 🧠 to understand?
@@FiveMinuteVelo How come the X20 system was short lived before Mahle moved quickly to the X30? It's pretty difficult to find any bikes for sale with the X20 system installed. Were there some design issues?
@funksoulbrother3620 > no, the X20 remains in the product line. There are now four main products, the x35, the x30, the x20, and the newly introduced XS versions of the x30 and x20 . You can still buy X20 based bikes, but they tend to be in short supply.