Air Suspension vs. Coilovers
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- At Carolina Motorsports Park we loaded up 3 very different cars with 2 different suspensions and one very qualified third party driver. Our mission was to do back to back tests: one run on statically lowered suspension, another on Air Lift Performance suspension.
To test all aspects of the 2 different suspensions we performed three separate tests: a 200 ft skid pad, 100 ft slalom, and a 2.3 mile road course. We gathered all the data and figured up the averages of each run with each vehicle on the different suspensions. All that remains are the cold hard facts.
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I'm a really small channel but I've been thinking about air lift on my 07 mustang GT. Cause I can see a benefit for having it. Set your ride height then if there's a speed bump or steep drive you can air it up do your not dragging.
I was taking this serious until I saw that it's a video made by a company that sells air suspension.
I would have that suspicion if the BRZ results weren't so close, I would even call them a tie. But more importantly, if you look at the fast laps, there's hardly a difference between coils and the airbags. The main difference is that airbags weigh more but don't have to be replaced for better results in different environments (unless they break of course) -- unlike coils. Unless you're extremely competitive, it's not as important to save weight (especially with a daily driver), not that coil overs can't be better than stock suspension.
air bags don't weight more. They weight less than your stock struts/spring combo and less than most coil-overs because of the steel spring in coil-overs vs a small spring in air bags. Dirty secret about coil-overs is they have to be rebuilt every so often, where air bags don't.
Really? -did you factor in the weight of the pump(s) tank(s), solenoids and hard lines?
Anthony Thomas and after 2..3 years bags cracks and it leaks air and even blasts while driving
raheel saleem is that from personal experience or is that ur guess?
You know you'd think if bags actually had an advantage like this race teams would've caught on by now.
+Justin Walters It is! :) facebook.com/NHRA/videos/10154108644091410/
+Air Lift Performance road course though, drag racing is a whole different animal to me especially with suspension setup
+Justin Walters Some are starting to use air suspension in racing as the technology has come a long way in the last few years. When we created this video, we weren't attempting to prove air suspension was superior to coilovers on the track. We simply wanted to show how far air suspension has come in the last few years and that it can perform on par with many coilovers. One of our buddies Cody Miles is actively competing in the Redline Time Attack series (and doing quite well) with his Air Lift Performance-equipped STi: www.airliftperformance.com/blog/track-cody-miles/
+Air Lift Performance I think the best and probably only way to do this test accurately would be to first off, take a baseline run with the cars with all of their respective modifications minus the coilovers and air ride, but also use a third party with no conflict of interest and that doesn't stand to profit from one result over the other, because as much as I'd like to believe this, what company would put out an advertisement with information stating that another company has a superior product? And I also don't believe that the company would've gone to these great lengths to do all of this testing and filming and data measuring not knowing if you were going to actually win. My final thing is I want the coilovers to be comparable to the price of the air ride, and I've looked at the prices of these air rides and you'd be in KW V3 territory, and a third party company would have no problem revealing every bit of information about every suspension setup, whereas this is all very vague.
+Air Lift Performance a fair run would be a third party mediator, you and the respective coilover company can send out your best guys to tune your suspension setups to their maximum capability, and the third party will test each one and find the results.
Which brand of Coilovers were used for this test?
Wow... Just... Wow... What kind of coilovers did you use? Hockey Pucks?! Bullshit
Good coilovers with the right adjustment for racing purposes should not have near that much body roll. Whoever tuned them did a really crappy job probably just to make the air look better.
+Jester Q Both our product and the coil overs were set up per the installation guides and damping adjusted to those specs. No attempt made to make us look better through improper set-up.
I call bs it looks like the coilovers were set all the way soft and the air lift all the way hard maby 5 clicks back or $500 Ebay coilovers vs $3000-$4000 air suspension no comparison Intel you put the same money you can get in both I call a big BS if you put a dule chamber shock with swift springs and edfc and it will still be cheaper then a cheep air lift system then re test the coilovers will always win and you can put cups on the springs for height adjustment btw
@@Airliftperformance I call bs it looks like the coilovers were set all the way soft and the air lift all the way hard maby 5 clicks back or $500 Ebay coilovers vs $3000-$4000 air suspension no comparison Intel you put the same money you can get in both I call a big BS if you put a dule chamber shock with swift springs and edfc and it will still be cheaper then a cheep air lift system then re test the coilovers will always win and you can put cups on the springs for height adjustment btw
And the driver knew what he was driving. Very objective test!
Regardless of the fact that they never disclosed what kind of "coilovers" were used in this video, the body roll of air suspension is pretty remarkable coming around that skid pad.
So what was the coilover setup? If you are comparing $800 coilsovers or factory springs/dampers this is some BS....can you tell us what you were comparing your setup to?
KW Variant 3's.... $2,600. People that make dumb comments never had or experienced air lift performance suspension.
Anthony Thomas soooo I could buy KW V3's, some of the best coilovers in the market, for $2600, or I could pay a almost double that on air lift suspension. I've looked at both options for my car, and people that need air suspension usually aren't looking for a modest drop, they're trying to go for a completely slammed look, and really aren't concerned with taking their car to the track. People in the market for KW V3's aren't looking at air suspension, they are looking for a modest drop and the absolute best handling they can get from their suspension. Air suspension is much too expensive too compare to coilovers. I'm not trying to say the air suspension doesn't have a market, because it obviously does, but the people in the market for $4000 coilovers aren't buying them for the reason that somebody would buy $4000 air suspension, because for $1200 you can get coilovers that will get you as low as you want, while having a quality ride and adjustability, whereas I couldn't even buy an air lift setup for $1200, I'd have to double that price to even get the manually controller suspension, if you start getting into the electronically controlled ride height and everything you're looking at $4000 easily.
Definately not V3s. Based on the body roll on the R, they cannot be V3s. My friend has V3s on his R and he is pretty much flat in corners....
Konstantin Kh exactly.
How do you know which Coilovers they are using? I was waiting for them to mention WHICH coilovers they are putting on the car... For all we know they might be using Racelands.
I will agree, the handling on my BMW F30 335i was improved, in fact the only 2 things I hate about my air lift system is the dang road noise, it is so loud on some roads that I won't drive on those roads anymore and the price to set up is way more $$$$.$$ then other suspension setups just to have a car that goes higher or lower then stock. These are the only 2 things I dislike about my car being bagged other then this that it's an improvement in every aspect and ride height adjustment on the fly is sick as hell so yeah I wish it were less expensive but it looks so good and the shock you get outta people when they see it is priceless.
In a fair and transparent test - the coilover manufacturer(s) would be named --- This test is garbage IMO. The fact that I could amazing handling out of a Bilstein non coil suspension on my MKIV GLI is proof enough for me that spending $3000 is required to get a better feel for the road is just nonsense. If bags were superior, racing teams all over the world would be making the switch.
The fact that you guys didn't mention what coilovers you installed makes this test extremely biased. Im glad you guys had all these different test but there just wasn't enough information about the coilovers to make this a legitimate comparison.
Can't forget that they probably setup the coilovers wrong.
Javier Kano a company cannot compare another companies product without consent or they would sue.
KW Variant 3's...
^^^THIS GUY GETS IT!
Javier Cano
wait for your first airbag to go out doing 100mph on the freeway
ive been a coilover snob for years.....just purchased my first air lift set up and im excited to see what they are about!!
I feel like this was bias to promote air lift systems, the channel is called air lift performance ;/ I could be wrong tho
It did not specify what kind of coilovers not all coilovers are the same you get your cheap Chinese crap vs tein coilovers or bc coilovers with swift springs and adjusting the damping to your specs and on tein coilovers add the edfc system then you reach ruffly the same cost for the cheapest air lift system
Whenever I see the body roll on these hot hatches, I'm so glad I went with a BRZ. I'll take go-kart handling over horsepower anyday.
they used Raceland coilovers!lol
great marketing and that all it is marketing what did you compare your airride to factory coil springs and struts? and it'll work as well if no one calls you out. coil overs are any coil spring over strut combination a true fully adjustable setup tested would be able to dial out nearly if not all the "negetive" things you supposedly exhibited want less body roll add more preload etc i don't believe you used premium or even remotely comparable suspension settings because if the spring rates and preloading (effort required to compress the suspension) were the same i would expect the results to match if not favor the coil overs slightly due to less weight in the vehicle.
Air suspension is the future. In performance, show, and daily driving. I personally own a car with an airlift suspension. Brought it to an auto x event and to the track once. The ride is smooth and you cant even tell you are on air when cutting corners at 50 mph. I dont know why you are trying to hate on air so much. Cant talk crap about it unless you know from personal experience. From past cars , to me coilovers and air handle the same on the track however air has more practicality for ride height and feel.
+Andrew Moreira not trying to hate but you cant take this video as an unbiased test esp if the setting relative spring rates etc arnt shown. sure air is great and this video shows it can handle a performance application but it in no way is unbaised or representative of a traditional performance coil over strut
+kyle “brainbukt” hubner yes i understand where your coming from. For those who dont have personal experience, you would think this video is bs. Supposedly the coilovers they used were indeed not stock but in regards to spring rates dampening etc, i couldnt tell you the specs used in this video. I first was so against air and thought it was a scam and waste of money. I love my air suspension and love the long term big investment i put on my cars suspension. No complaints and car drives super smooth. No problems leaks or blown bags in over 18k miles.
+Andrew Moreira Thanks for adding your "EXPERIENCE" to the discussion! That is the part that most people commenting here lack. They have opinions, but no experience. Your voice is louder than ours because people are skeptical since we are the manufacturer. Thank you for being a customer as well as for sharing!
+kyle “brainbukt” hubner for the price of an airlift for these cars you could buy KW V3's and I want anybody on here to challenge that any of these cars on KW V3's would be slower than if they were on bags.
This is gm level of marketing bullshit
Sorry. But what coilover system did you use? It seems to me that this was a paid advert
Lazaro Carreiro they sell air suspension. garuantee they used cheap ebay coilovers.
It was a European manufacturer, and a reputable company.
Bullshit it was. If that's true they would have no problem saying it or contracting a 3rd party to do the testing...
Hi Mick Stodd, I’m the Marketing Manager for Air Lift Performance. I understand your comment - looking back we thought having the participation from a 3rd party driver would be enough and as long we followed the suggested settings, we’d be fine and that we’d just have integrity in our actions of demonstrating air. Again, the argument that we’re making, and even suggested in the video, that there will be an ongoing debate and questions. But air can perform on the track. And drivers like Cody Miles or the Scofields, or guys running our Dragg bags do everyday. That’s taking the concept that we pitch in our video here in the real world, which I think is more important than an OEM video we can produceOur engineering team that oversaw this initiative are degreed, experiences racers and specialist in suspension dynamics (not just air). The first car to win the Daytona 500 (and confirmed that 6 of the 8 first Daytona 500’s) were all Air Lift equipped vehicles, before today’s technology. The primarily attribute of our product is the ride height adjustability, and that people prefer to go low. But there is and should be an expectation that the suspension be quality engineered for daily driving, and if you want to track it...that it be able to perform. This is brand averse...and the reason why I don’t blatantly call out the product compared is that my brand, and my company isn’t looking to play the name calling game with other companies.
That's understandable and I have respect for you to give that reply. Cody is a great guy. I have personally met him. Absolutely nothing against your company or your sponsorship of him. Having said that I think you guys could have been more effectively in your marketing strategy had you not tried to just disprove coilovers, but shown how they can perform within striking distance of a top level setup AND offer every day usability. I am a marketing specialist, racer of 20 years and have learned from hall of fame drivers and builders. When you market product x being better than y you need to prove without a shadow of a doubt there is no room for interpretation. Unfortunately, Time Attack is in California is a very shallow field without much talent. It is club level racing without a lot of talent. If you want to convince people that Air Lift is superior in terms of performance win a national championship in the SCCA runoffs. I get your message and I see your products value to the people you market to, but don't paint the picture that it's better than coilovers without proving it in a real racing environment. Really appreciate your reply. Hope all is well.
Spring rate of coilovers? Or by 'coilovers' do you mean stock? All coilovers I've used would lift a wheel before they rolled that much.
Naysayers : Show us some numbers and footage or it didn't happen.
Also...
Naysayers: you did as we asked but you filmed it - so we don't believe you.
So, the same, just one can be height adjusted on the fly. cool 👍
i would really like to know what coilovers were used. So i can know which coilovers NOT to buy. Coilovers>most air suspension most likely including this system but, my guess is either Racelands or Godspeeds on full soft dampers and adjusted for max travel to accentuate roll and disconnected sway bars.
+Crusher103 Sorry. No cheap coil overs here. Rather single and double adjustable product made in Europe. And none of the cars was doctored to make us look good either. Both their product and ours was installed and adjusted per factory instructions while keeping ride heights and alignments as close as possible. If you want to understand better how well our system works, we encourage you to find someone with one of our Performance kits on their car and go for a ride! That will tell you way more than this video ever can.
Made in Europe does not tell me anything about the coilovers. If you guys really are concerned about showing us that your system is good put it up against a reputable company. The KWs, H&R, Bilstiens of the world, even a set Tein Basic coilovers. I've been around a lot of cars with coilovers and a few with air suspension. In fact 2 of my cars have BC coilovers which i am content with. But I have never seen a car with coilovers roll as much as in this video, ever. Even the worst coilovers do not roll that much.
+Crusher103 👍
Hey Crusher, one of the brands you mentioned was used. However, it's not like is to go after a brand or try to bash another company. The cars were set to installation guidelines provided for the products.
Watch the sped up videos when they are switching the suspensions. You can clearly see the BRZ and Mustang get aftermarket coil overs. It's a nice test and i understand it may not be legal to reveal the brand but testing the air against a comparable coil over in cost like a KW V3 would have been optimal.
+Maxwell Hughes Oh and I installed your 3H system on a Fiesta ST and hit the back roads with it. Almost no body roll and there is no doubt it handles better.
+Maxwell Hughes I don't know what a KW V3 costs in your country, but here they're still about half the price of an air suspension setup. And for that kinda money I rather go for Bilstein or H&R because KW is overhyped and overpriced imo
Great test, but you don't specify the coilover specs. A bad coilover setup can turn the car into mush with incorrect damping and/or bad spring rates. I'm sorry, but when a pro-test driver says there is "MORE" roll with coilovers, I have to believe the coilovers chosen were not right for the car.
I don't think anyone cares if AirRide loses to a set of race spec coilovers, but it would be nice to know how close they come. Don't compare to some cheesy (made in china) set of coilovers. I would take air ride as long as it can still offer "track like" handling. I wouldn't care if it's slightly slower than race spec coilovers.
+David F i agree with this statement i have no hate for air lift but it would be very nice to know what brand and specs of the coil overs especially when the suspension aftermarket is so saturated, cause honestly i know people would really find that informative i am really considering your brand but it would be nice to see what brand and spec your are comparing that is just basic compare and contrast 101, as i do intend to track my 2004 GOLF R32 once or twice a month and stance it at gtg meets
+David F You are correct in saying that a bad set-up of coils or air ruins a car! In the case of the video, our driver did note more roll on the coil overs because there WAS more roll. It is a common thought that air is somehow softer than coils. This idea comes a lot from the OEM's marketing, but in reality, the stiffness is a matter of part choice and tuning! Our systems are designed to have a nice, sporty ride on the street with enough adjustment available to stiffen it up further and hit the track! And the progressive nature of our air springs means the more you lean on them, the stiffer they get, thus limiting roll.
We never claim to be a "race suspension". Just a great street suspension than can certainly hold it's own when pushed hard on a racetrack. See some of our other videos if you want more proof of that.
+Air Lift Performance nice way to avoid the question at hand. what were the spring rates on the coilovers? what level of dampening? inverted piston or no?
Air is just too fucking expensive - $3000+ after install and taking it all out if you get rid of the car? Ugh
id also like to know what brand of coils was used
The air ride is comparable to what roush suspension did back than. I have an 05 stang and it handles awesome with the roush suspension.
...hmm, I'm skeptical. I need to know the brand of these so-called coilovers you guys used before I'm sold on this idea. the logic of the video is like the old argument that 'wireless is better than a hard wired connection'.
I've a 93 MX-5 that I'm building for trackdays but is still my daily. I currently run a cheap set of Yonakas (8kg front, 6kg rear) and they really brought the car to life. grant it, my suspension was fairly built already prior to the coilovers but still, the car has practically no dive or roll anymore.
I guess, maybe you guys can't mention the name of the brands you compared with but still, it would give us a good basis to compare especially if it's a reputable brand.
I'd really love to have a lift setup so I can conqer speedhumps/dips and car park ramps lol but not if its just going to compromise my cornering ability, brake dive, and accel lift.
+Porsche Duésnburg You are correct, we cannot mention the brand of coil-overs we tested against. I can tell you though, they are a very well known brand of high-end coil-overs. Contrary to popular belief, we did NOT test against a set of junk coil-overs.
A properly set up air suspension can handle just as well as a coil-over suspension with much more adjustability. For more details check out airliftperformance.com
+Air Lift Performance You should atleast give us some specs to sell us on it. Not even specifics, you could give a ballpark. For such an expensive product you could do that at the very least.
There is no legal reason that you can't say which brand coilover you were testing against. there were laws past that allow that. thats why "our brand vs brand A and C laundry detergent" commercials stopped years ago. I flat out don't believe you when you say it was a "highend" coilover, just look at how bouncy that golf is on the skid pad with coilovers, thats the mark of a crap damper. your air system is very well better than most budget coilovers, but any coilover that costs as much as your system (looks like most are over 3k) will easily out perform air.
I don't think they used a high end set of coils. The way the cars handled was really laughable by the amount they would roll around. The air set is about 3500 for the basic set with air management which would get a nice set of KW Variant 3's and they would laugh at a car on bags. I'm gonna go bags though since it is a happy medium between performance and practicality since I live in an area that is mostly okay with lowered cars but has a few really nasty spots I don't wanna risk. Big businesses compare themselves to other's all the time, Chevy lately has really been shooting at Ford's new aluminum bed.
But you did not disclose whether or not you set up to coilovers to their full potential. The way you worded your comment is just a sneaky fucking way to get around that technicality. Until you release some sort of video that actually shows that the coilovers were professionally set up by a third party who doesn't stand to profit from the airlift outperform the coils (like you guys do), than there's a large percentage of the tuning community that you will never win over.
AHHHH this is awesome! Definitely considering airbags instead. Niceee
air suspension better win on a air suspension selling channel, lmao
MAYBE you should let us know what coilovers you are testing them against?
+purplehazenilsp Scroll up to see explanation.
+Air Lift Performance in your description you don't state what coilover setup you're using against your air suspension.
There is a reason why dedicated track/ race cars do not use air suspension. Coilovers are superior; not only is ride heigh adjustable but the spring rates and dampening effects usually are too. The added weight of an air system with the lines, tank and compressor also compromise performance and space.
Bags are cool and work for the track, perhaps better than the oem suspension, but should stick to the car meets and sit pretty.
this gives the possibility of the ultimate sleeper wagon that can not only handle snow but handle well yess.
Can you tell us what PSI they were running in their bags?
Also relevant, how quickly does your system respond -- faster enough to level the car left/right in a slalom? Twisty road course? Long sweeping turns?
Iirc, the abc system from mercedes was prepared to deal only with psi adjustents for long sweepers and of course load level
+Overcast Friday Thanks for the excellent question! Air suspension needs to be viewed as a "passive" type because air cannot react fast enough to actively alter ride height and spring rates in a dynamic situation. It is too compressible a medium to make it effective.
If this were a study made by an independent track i would believe it, but because it was made by the manufacturer, it would obviouly profit them to skew the tests in favor of the air suspension. But if the company that did the tests were not going to make any money on this regardless of which one is better, then this would be a trustworthy video
The main problem with air suspension that i have, is that air tank you have to place somewhere in your car. It takes so much place!
Plus the air that is pumped in will contain moisture and this will be collected in the system, especially in coutries as wet as where I live. I do like the characteristics of air springs though, definitely can be a bonus. I would however prefer a closedf system with two tanks to ensure no moisture will enter the system.
It's funny that the American car which is the heaviest, oldest, and has the detriment of a solid axle is the best handling car...
Why all the hate :/ I don't get people, excuse me Mr. Hamilton(S) because your Mercedes AMG F1 car is not equipped with air suspension, while your crappy old corolla is being used as a daily driver for either you alone as a delivery car or it's your mom's car. for the body roll, you CAN use stiffer anti-roll bars, the springs on your car can't be adjusted on the go, but with the height sensor your bags can air up realtime INDIVIDUALLY! so generally speaking, LESS BODY ROLL is achieved, and a smoother ride on rough roads cause (DUH... AIR) and can adjust the stiffness of it on the corners AND while you decide to carry some weight around it sits level in the same height... don't even MENTION RACE CARS like LMP and F1, etc.... with close to 3-4-5G lateral acceleration even most of the "HIGHEST PERFORMING" Lambos and Ferraris and Supercars can't achieve it with Street legal stuff. for the race, you either have a team to set up your car, or at least about a week of setting up your car, and that's more down to your DAMPER! not your SPRINGS. so if there's a high-quality race damper alongside with airbags as the (AIR SPRING) then it's the better choice, I don't know about the cracking of the bags over the year thing since I've never used any Air Lift Performance products or any pneumatic suspension system, that might be true, might not. but it's all down to maintenance, your springs can oxidize too if you don't maintain it or let it rub on something, and it cracks... try to look at pneumatic suspensions more unbiased, gosh!!!
So, what brand of coilovers were used?
BRZ handles WAY better than I ever would have thought
What is the highest you can lift the car? Are you able to lift the car while it's moving or do you need to be fully at stop?
fatcartman Every application is a little different, but on average, you can get back to factory ride height or close to it. Some apps may be able to lift beyond that.
fatcartman Every application is a little different, but on average, you can get back to factory ride height or close to it. Some apps may be able to lift beyond that.
Re: air vs coil, did you use the same approximate comp/rebound shock settings? How did you verify the settings were matched (eg. rebound period of say 2" was timed on both)?
Air spring companies like to point out an inherently progressive spring rate but the fact remains lowering a car to get a low cg results in an exceptionally soft suspension. The wild body lean in the video would be expected in your spring setup, not brand x. You'd have carefully select and adjust the shock damper that gives an unfair advantage; hence the questions.
+Overcast Friday The dampers, in our case and the coil over, were adjusted to the recommended setting for each vehicle in the installation manuals. There was no attempt to make the damping "equal" because that is impossible across different brands. We had range to go stiffer and so did they. Neither was specifically tuned to the track we ran.
As for spring rates being soft when low for air, you do not understand how these work. The air pressure is only one part of the equation that makes up the rates! . If you actually went for a ride in any of our cars and we didn't tell you it was on air, you would have no idea it was! And to give you an example of rate, the Mustang front spring starts at around 600#/in at the ride height shown in the video and gets stiffer the more you lean on it. All the lean you see was real and untouched footage, not some manipulation of the truth. Dampers control the rate or roll, they do not limit it BTW. I encourage you to go for a ride in a car equipped with our Performance product. You might just be surprised!
+Air Lift Performance Okay. If high pressure is only one aspect that firms the rates, what is the second? That's my point. I'm saying you can do it with the shocks. You're saying there is at least one other ingredient. I have yet to talk with an air suspension shop that echo's your claim: going low and firm go hand in hand. Enlighten us.
I have a car on unnamed coilovers and it won't body roll as much as the air did, so if you can just match that maybe I'll believe it. For now, I know the springs and valving can't be a good match. what are the spring rates? you can't name the brand then at least list the actual specs because there is no way this is performance coilover, if it is tighten up the compression and rebound and do it again. let me guess doesn't even have adjustments.
NASCAR has used air suspension in their racing history.
+ken anderson i mean NASCAR race on oval...........
Lol I had air lift with v3 controller on my old car but come on guys they’re not a shade on a coil over setup handling wise. I feel like your pissing on us and telling us it’s raining. What coilovers you use for this .. some eBay specials ?
i dont understand why there is heavy metal playing the WHOLE TIME
Didn't imagine that back in 2014 marketing teams for suspension manufacturers were really that dumb!!
Do you remember what pressure settings you had for the Golf R? I have the Performance series on mine with AutopilotV2. Looking to get a benchmark to somewhat follow in my tweaking process.
Was considering this at first, but the cost is way more than coil overs & possibly weighs more.
I'm guessing they tested against factory coil overs. so better then factory is OK especially for a sports car. but a high end set of coils would probably be a better option. although if your car is mostly on the street, the versatility of being able to raise and lower may be worth it. but if it's a track car, probably a bad idea.
At the end of the day bags are still for groceries
Pornógrafos
probably ebay coilovers
i know it can slamed the car down but can it be also heighten the car against speedbump?
Oh god the body roll on the gti tho. what'd you put in it a set of rally coilovers?
I mean this test looked biased as fuck but if i had the money id still go air because it's comfy... Do a rally comparison next XD
Very interesting, keen to know more.
Do you need an APAC distributor, if not who can we speak to in Australia?
Also wonder, aside from cost... if Air suspension is better than coil-over, I wonder why more racing teams aren't using them?
It all depends on the quality of coilovers and air suspension if you use a premium air strut vs a cheap Chinese coilovers the air will always win but if you use a premium coilover with the same price as air it will be extremely close for example using eather bc coilovers with swift springs helper springs and geting the shocks dialed in on stiffness it will still be cheaper then air and perform extremely close same goes with tein coilovers but put a edfc system on it and it will always out preform air but if you put a edfc system on air and get the air hight sensers to react with body roll that is King it will never be beat but nobody offer's that combination the auto stiffness control with body roll control now that's cool
yeah you might want to increase the dampening on them coilovers...
From my experience with bike air suspensions (that are telescopic type, NOT BAGS!!) I am hesitant with systems using bags, especially in our climate due to external air (containing moisture) being pumped in all the time, which will collect in the system rotting it out inside out. I would rather trust a telescopic system, where air is only circled round by the pump(s) So using a negative and a positive pressure tank. Also I am convinced the progressiveness (or even the characteristic) is a lot more controllable with telescopic versus bags. I DEFINITELY know this kind of a system will be able to outperform even the most expensive coilovers, especially when you pair it to modern day G sensors and modern day analysis software running and controlling the system live. You could even go as far as adding sensor tech that can add prediction to an actively running set-up.
Hi Vincenzo, we use water traps to keep moisture out of the system.
need a kit for my 2016 charger scat pak rt
The comments say it all.
I declare shenanigans
i love all the negative comments, but know one has made any counter video with statistics showing that their coilover setup of choice beats out Air Lift Performance's air set up.
all these opinions from Psudo-engineers
+Michael Zarate The one on top never has to prove itself. It's the one who wants the throne, that has to show why it's better than the king!
id they put butter tyres on that Toyota?
For those that are skeptical watch this ruclips.net/video/BkZl5e2kEQc/видео.html
Air Lift has been around for years and were one of the first companies to be introduced into NASCAR
love the music :)
What official air suspension chanel will say about their product? xD xD xD
I have seen a few people autocross on bags but never ever seen a vehicle on bags win a podium position .
I really really want air ride for the ride quality but I just don't trust its durability under regular track events vs even a cheaper performance coilover like bc racing. .... Hopefully in a few years we will see some real third party non bias reviews on how they hold up and if they are constantly having to tweak and replace stuff
Hey Mr. Lewis. A few years ago we started to see a driver by the name of Cody Miles take his 2007 Subaru STi to the track. He was winning at events and tagging us. He runs the Performance Series kit for his car, and the Air Lift Performance 3H air management, after updating from his V2. He has one his class in both Global and Redline Time Attack, and had a new track record at Road Atlanta. Cody continues to do very well.
what brand of coilovers did you compare against and were they aligned and tuned by someone that knows what they are doing??? I am seeing too lower spring rate and the damping rate is so low it's not funny... original factory suspension would outperform those coilovers! do the test again. but against Ohlins with Eibach springs and have them dialed in by a Race engineer!
Was it a full set of coil overs? Did you guys use stiffer shocks?
AHHF005 Yes, the coilovers were a complete front/rear setup from a very popular premium suspension brand. We set the shock damping to the factory-recommended settings.
How would the kit work during the winter?
We’re a Michigan company :-) it gets cold here. There’s some winter considerations for sure, but does just fine!
Illinois 🔥🔥🔥
I think air lift is super biased because it is a air lift video in my outher comment it tells my experience with both
Neat video... However, I'm sorry to say that there are some GLARING problems with this test.
- The air-ride suspension was run first with EACH.AND.EVERY.VEHICLE. Now, unless the tires were replaced when the suspension was swapped, then it's possible that the tires themselves could've been suffering from reduced grip after the heat-cycle(s) of the air-ride suspension testing. As an autocrosser, I've seen this happen all the time.
- Track conditions can change within even a short couple of hours, even if it's just track temperature. This again suggests to me that at least ONE of the vehicles should've been driven with the coilovers first.
- The coilovers themselves could be cheap ebay knockoffs, as they are not actually ever explained as to what they are, what their spring-rates are, or even if they're remotely good quality units at all. Chances are that these were NOT high-quality competition dampers with carefully-researched spring-rates.
video should be called stock suspension vs air suspension
what crappy coilovers have you used? those cars are cornering like boats when on coils
If this is legit, it is quite exciting. Can you tell me what makes an air ride kit more tuned toward sport handling rather than just dropping a car. Seriously reconsidering bags over coilovers now.
Tim Herda Our Performance Series air suspension kits are designed just like a set of premium coilovers with features like 30 levels of damping adjustment, monotube shock/strut construction, camber plates, and threaded shock/strut bodies. These features, mated with our progressive rate air springs, make our air suspension kits comparable to a nice set of coilovers. The primary benefit of going with bags is the versatility. Sure you can slam a car with air, but you can also track it with similar results as coilovers. Here's a link with a little more info on our Performance Series air suspension kits: www.airliftperformance.com/product-lines/performance-air-suspension/
+Tim Herda i would do further reasearch this is a video produced by the company responsible for selling these units of course they're going to do well the "coil overs" they used could very well be factory units. what your likely to find is true premium coil overs properly setup will either match or exceed the results here. what airbag will however offer you over coil overs is a softer ride for the daily commute.
if the coil overs compared were true adjustable units the body roll could be dialed out completely by adjusting spring preloads. this is the main reason i am dubious of the results here.
people forget that a coil over is and spring and strut combination where the coiled spring is wraped around the strut and therefore a coil spring over strut. no where in this video did they supply suspension settings spring rates or equivalent spring rate damper settings etc. in this sort of blind unaccountable testing it's far to easy to skew result in favour of the system your trying to sell and that is ok it's called MARKETING!
Air Lift Performance can you enlighten us what where the bag pressures used on these cars setups? I'm keen to know at least the FRS because I have one, but others might want to know the other two cars as well? I would appreciate very much if you can!
lol, 'coilovers'. Riiiight. This does not pass the smell test.
I'm sure a company called air lift isn't bias at all.
Lol.
as expected the heavier car benefited the most. what's the lifetime of this system anyway? better than conventional suspension?worse?
The nextinline That's a great question! We validate our suspension systems using a durability cycle that simulates 100k miles. We have thousands of customers out there driving every day logging miles totaling in the millions. Suffice to say durability is certainly as good as premium coil overs. And we have a 1 year warranty on all components (no mileage limit) just in case.
+Air Lift Performance only 1 year that a pretty poor warranty. I've seen suspension units with warranties into the 3-4 year range
I have had coilovers and bags coilovers are way better to figure out because you have a set spring rate but bags dont so when you set your bags to a height the spring rate is unknown and trying to figure out the damping is a nightmare but if thair was a way to get the spring rate on a display and have edfc on each corner that would be epic but unfortunately nobody's going to do that the bags I ran were bc racing coilovers conversion bags on BR series it is extremely stiff and harsh I spent 200 hours on all 30 levels of soft and hard and all psi from 5 psi to 100 the only thing moving was my tires making it almost undrivable I even cought air on some small bumps with coilovers with swift springs still cheaper then air it was ed extremly smooth on the same set of BR series coilovers it felt like a progressive stut and a degresive strut all together so smooth not bouncing all around and my presets on the dampers were 13 clicks from soft to the middle on the rear and 16 clicks from soft to the hard side I for height control my suggestion would be air cups this is my personal opinion and experience with both I put my old oem suspension on and it still was better then both with small bumps and big ones I drive a 2004 acura RL it has a degresive shock design to fix the small amount of body roll I went back to the basics I just put a stiffer anti roll bar and it fixed the problem with out suffering the extra smooth ride the 1996-2004 RL was ahead of its time in suspension it can be compared to a modern 2021 Mercedes s580 in ride quality I have a black one with black interior yes the Mercedes has better insulation and is a little smoother but the feal is the same surprisingly
What coilovers where they using?
A well know brand in the same class as our suspension. We didn’t publish, out of respect to other brands. We’re not going to bash any companies - just want to demonstrate that air can do what you need it to do with some flexibility.
I don't like the fact that they installed the stock suspension AFTER the air suspension. that's just a waste of time.
I want to buy bags for looks, not for track
You can certainly do that too, and most do. However, they also want the suspension to be quality enough to handle daily driving duties and track duties if you wanted.
Bagged
Wow those coil settings are trash. Nobody sets up there coils all loosey goosey like that
saw it was made by an air suspension company, thats the first red flag, then the disgustingly set up coilovers really drove the nail home. Holy damn, like what did they do to make them worse than the stock suspension? for this test they should have used 3K coilovers (same cost as air), such as some properly set up Ohlins, they would have killed the sloppy air suspension.
I'm guessing the spring rates were lowered and the valving was softened with linear internal valving.
most bias test ever
Air suspension company make test of their suspension versus other.. Verdict? I didnt need to watch to know it
Air lift please tell as golf r setting pressure and high...? Everybody want's to know! I ask you to email! May be is that secret?
lol 3000 dollars worth of air suspension vs 700 dollar coils, ide put money that a 2100 dollar coil setup will destroy a 3000 dollar air suspension set up
I don't know what kind of crap coilovers were used here, but I cannot call this a fair test. The amount of roll, and dive the car was giving in the slalom and corners looks comparable to the stock suspension on lowering springs. With true Coilover suspension, the car could be stiffened up via dampening force as well as preload (thats on a basic 3 way adjustable coilover). Now break out some 2 piece full adjustable coilovers (seperate tank for oil and dampening adjustment) made for racing applications, this car would handle like a dream. Im sorry but there are too many uncontrollable variables that air involves, that you can't ever really compare it to a true race bred coilover. Air is coming up, and its improved immensely over the years but its not ready to take the title of being better than a static setup. apologies.
+BedlamScrape Thanks for your feedback. We tested against a very high end set of coil-overs. We did the tests back to back and tried to keep all conditions as close as possible between the comparisons. We were not trying to test against full blown coil-overs, because our suspension is not a full blown race set up. Our suspension is designed to give you excellent handling, ride quality and the adjustability to get over obstacles at the push of a button.
true true. you guys make any bags for a 2006 hyundai sonata? :)
We do not offer a bolt on Sonata kit at this time, but there could possibly be one offered in the future.
+BedlamScrape This was a plug for there product, otherwise we'd have seen what coil over suspension they were using.
What brand of coilovers where used on the cars?
fat420cracker We're not going to publish the brand of the manufacturer, but let's just say they were from a very popular German brand.
Lol. That narrows it down a little. Thx
***** So not KW V3's or KW Clubsports, most likely ST? haha
Kype All 3 cars had adjustable dampers, the BRZ's were doubles. ST's are non-adjustable... and the retail price of the coilovers was comparable to our system. All competitor's set-ups were set to the manufacture's settings as were ours. No ebay junk was used in the making of this video.
+ Air Lift Performance what brand though?
Do race cars use air suspension? If air suspension is great, why doesn't car manufacturers put them on their sports cars?
Charles Lin Air suspension has a long history in racing, and though it's been under the radar for awhile - it's making a huge comeback. Check these out: www.speedhunters.com/2014/05/know-real-history-air-suspension/ www.airliftperformance.com/blog/lifeonair-cody-miles-drives-it-shows-it-tracks-it-wins/ www.speedhunters.com/2015/07/no-compromise-a-modern-history-of-performance-air-suspension/ the Tesla Model S even has a flavor: www.teslamotors.com/models
Luke Zimbelman Thank you for sharing! I did my own web search earlier, and now I have a better idea about air suspensions.
+Charles Lin you can't use this as an accurate comparison between coil overs (could very very likly) be factory suspension units they do not specify. theres a common misunderstanding of adjustable suspension being called coil overs when in fact any suspension unit that incorporates a coil spring around the strut is a "coil over"
This comparison is useless when you look at it from a neutral point of view because it's been done by the manufacturer of the air suspension thus making the whole thing worthless. (trust me, I'm a marketeer and it doesn't work like that!)
If the TÜV or ADAC in Germany would publish these kinda results, I might look into it.
Another big mistake, there's no information whatsoever about the so called coilovers that got beaten by the air suspension? A bit weird taking all these glorious wins and not once mentioning which/who they have beaten? There are huge differences in prices and quality of coilovers. You better compare them to the best performance coilovers there are since they'd still be half the price of the air suspension.
+RespectYouNeed I mean, did anyone really think that the air suspension in this video would lose?
Put fcking ohlins on it and you'll see the difference
Appreciate the feedback DigitalV3. The system used was comparably priced. Again, we're not saying put this up against a top of the line coilover, but that the suspension can performance and that it can provide you with ride height adjustability at the touch of a button. The point to be made is that you can have height adjustability from a suspension, without loss in vehicle in ride quality and handling.
This is such a biased review. They must be comparing airbags to stock coil overs. I know for a fact coilovers handle way better than air bags. If airbags were superior F1 cars would be running them.
hydropneumatic suspension
pretty sure that u can buy any suspension an be happy but i think bags have an edge