I completely agree with almost every point you mentioned. ‘It Ends with Us’ ended on such a happy note with such great hope for the future, it totally didn’t need this sequel. I didn’t find Atlas too swoon-worthy either in the first book. He was a great human being - kind and helpful and someone Lily deserves for sure, and she got him. But we didn’t need to know all the nitty-gritty details of them coming together, like you mentioned. I could’ve easily lived without reading this book and been happy that Lily found the love she deserved.
I believe this book yes was about Lily and Atlas but for me it was more about about Josh and Atlas childhood and how he didn’t want his brother to suffer what he did… idk I just loved both!
The ONLY part of this story that I loved was the plot line with Josh. It was traumatic to read about his struggles, yes… but I loved seeing the dynamic develop between him and Atlas. The whole idea behind ‘It Starts with Us’ was also really cute. I feel that if this story did anything, it was allowing CoHo to bring up the story of kids like Josh into the light and depict their strife. I was so overwhelmed while reading about him.
I feel like a chapter from Ryle’s perspective would be an attempt to get the reader on his side, when the whole purpose of the first book was to stop relieving the abusive man of the responsibility and the severity of their actions. Just me
I have recently read this book. I agree he has no right to hit her which was the reason for them to separate. Lily needed help. Atlas left, Atlas wasn't man enough to express his feelings for her, he gets the chance to choose when he is ready to be with her. WTF is that? Lily never hesitated to do anything for Atlas and he couldn't even go and say hi! What I don't get, after the first time, she should of helped him through counseling and so on... Lily has never given her husband 100% of her. I really hate the fact that she met Ryle. He should have never met her. Atlas doesn't even deserve her either.
@@zorishawong7989she didn’t give Ryle her 100%?? He pushed her down the stairs and she still chose to stay with him to help him. If you ask me, she was generous. That pos deserves to be in jail. I can’t believe there are people supporting Ryle. It shows how messed up of a world we live in.
Honestly, I'm not defending Ryle's actions. But I do also agree that Lily never gave her 100% to him because, even after years of being apart, she was still obviously infatuated with Atlas. That can cause alot of strain on a normal relationship let alone one between two already messed up individuals. What I will say is that, I don't think ISWU should have existed, especially when IEWU felt like closure at the end. Some people are just not cut out to being in a relationship and I'd like to think that deep down Ryle already knows that she's going back to Atlas anyways. Plus seeing how happy he is as a father, by the end of the first book, I wanna believe that he would take it upon himself to get therapy if only for Emmy's sake. I know we were purposefully mislead to think of him as this sweet character in the beginning of IEWU for plot reasons, but I'm just also sad that, basically, his mental illness is just downright villainised, like it's the obvious excuse for why he becomes an abuser. It doesn't make it okay, but if this story is about breaking cycles which I believe even Ryle was trying to do by avoiding relationships/children like they're the plague, then I also want to believe that he's also smart enough to realise he needs to change. ISWU just sh*ts all over that.
Completely agree with you! It felt rushed to me. I wanted so much that we didn’t get and I was like “this is it?”. The wedding we barely got any of. We didn’t see a proposal or any of them moving in together. Just really disappointed me! I didn’t enjoy the rehashing of everything. Felt like wasted space! I definitely agree that these aren’t romance books too!
I 100% agree with basically everything you said about the book's narrative shifting over time. I also went into this book blind and absolutely fell in love with Ryle. The new readers are going into this book with the "I'm gonna hate Ryle and love Atlas" mindset which really changes how you perceive the book. I too was not very excited as I was much more invested in Ryle than atlas ngl. That being said I'm glad lily didn't end up with him. Thank you for not making me feel like a weirdo for thinking this way.
You said it! I was rooting for Ryle and Lily (went into the book blind). I even hoped for a magical redemption arc for Ryle *ik ik*. I didn't hate Atlas but necessarily didn't love him either (ellen letter were boringgg). At the time I was reading so many HEAs and It ends with us was so eye-opening to me. I'm sad that most people now wont get that experience and wont get to feel what this book actually means.
I also went into it blind and had this same experience! It definitely made the book so much better in my opinion. At one point (before we knew how bad Ryle was) I couldn’t fathom that she would ever pick Atlas over Ryle 😂
As someone who just read her first Colleen Hoover book and this one being that one, I did not hear or know anything about the books I went in blind. I also read it starts with us blindly. It was great. Not sure how I feel about it yet but the story kept me reading
I read it ends with us when it was getting the hype on booktok. I went into it as a romance because most of the videos contained how awesome Atlas Corrigan is. But this book totally shattered me. It mainly focused on domestic abuse and as someone who has went through her entire life witnessing domestic abuse I was traumatized after finishing it. Like collen hoover totally described the emotions of what a child feels when she witnesses domestic abuse happening to her mother. I literally connected with lily and with collen with notes from the author. The only good thing about the book was Lily standing up for herself and started a new life as a single mother for her daughter. And yes Atlas. And In this book I had hopes that the chapter with ryle will be left in the past or the focus of attention will not be on him. Like it was good he was not redeemed or anything. But it felt more like the book was about how ryle is going to feel about it. I had high expectations from this book. I wanted to know more and more about Atlas. My heart warmed whenever Atlas spoke or whenever there was a chapter from him. I wish someday Collen writes a book just from Atlas POV and his journey. I loved this book though because I felt this book was an epilogue for the beginnig of happily ever after of Atlas and Lily. ❤
I happen to love the book. My opinion is that developing Ryle much more would take away from the fact that most abusers in reality don't change, or change very little. I think it was the messy but more accurate way to portray him when he lost his love and then watched her with the guy he was already jealous of. Ryle, to me, sounds delusional a lot, and he'd already been in therapy since he was a kid and nothing seemed to help. The anger management thing felt like a step in the right direction. He doesn't think he's wrong many times, so how is he going to handle people calling him out on it? Not well. Thankfully I don't know what this is like! And I'm someone who went to the 2016 signing for this book & read it the month it came out, so all I really knew was the synopsis & what Colleen said in the q&a about it being the hardest book she'd written then. I also hate how people try to spoil what it's about and others judge it and say that it sounds bad right off the bat. The REASON the 1st one was written was because it was pulled from CoHo's parents' relationship & Colleen wanted to explore what her mom went through at the same time as making readers understand when a relationship is toxic. THIS is why she's so passionate about no redemption for Ryle. Just my thoughts. Thanks for your honesty!
You made such a good point about 'It ends with us' there are people who loves Lily and Atlas or thinks the stories about Lily or Ryan but for me the stories about Lily and her journey from her mother to her daughter.
Absolutely! It’s all about her mother’s story and her battle with domestic violence at the end of the day and that’s what I think should be focused on.
Couldn't agree more with Ryle's character development - I honestly was expecting to see Ryle getting the help he obviously needed in it starts with us. Not saying that he and Lily should be together, but I felt there were so much more could be done from Lily and Ryle's family to help him get into therapy at least. As much as I did not like Ryle's character since he hurt Lily, I felt bad for him.
Agreed, Ryle was an abuser and by no means did she need to stay with him. But I feel like he could've received more support from the people around him like Lily received to clearly battle through the things he was facing as well. I'm not justifying his actions by any means.
I also didn’t like the fact that the intervention was so short lived. Ryle didn’t say anything at all. He just accepted everything. I feel if it were that easy, Lily should’ve had done that long ago. I expected some retaliation, some explanations on his part, but there were absolutely none. That so didn’t seem like the Ryle I had begun genuinely dreading.
I think everything played out that way because Marshall and Alyssa were there. If it was only Lilly and Ryle having a conversation, he would feel as if he had the upper hand and could explode without any witnesses to his horrid behavior.
I agree!! I read It Ends With Us back when it was first released in 2016 lol, and I was shocked by the story. It helped me view abusive relationships differently and increased my empathy for people in these situations who say they still love their partner. I never judged them, but I simply did not understand. (In 2016, I was also a lot younger obvs with less life experience than I have now.) The "love story" with Atlas always felt like a side thing that I didn't care about. It Ends With Us felt more like women's fiction than romance. I don't plan to read It Starts With Us because I feel like I got what I needed from the story. Thank you for the review!
I literally got traumatised after reading It Ends With Us. Cause I didn’t have any idea about the book, I started to read thinking its all about love and happy thoughts with a little bit of twist and during the first few chapters I started to like Ryle but slowly and gradually I got shocked seeing his bad side which ultimately made me feel terrible. Though Lily did great by divorcing him and moving a step forward with Atlas. But recently I started reading the It Starts With Us which obviously you are right ,the journals are too much and the book tells more about the previous book and honestly deep down I was thinking Ryle was going to be a good person now and like Lily found a perfect man the same way Ryle will find someone who can heal him. After reading those two books , since my friends and everyone told me that they loved the book so so much and posting about it everywhere, even I wanted to feel the same. But I was more traumatised then loving the books . So thank you for opening up your thoughts with us and seeing many of us feel the same. Cause I felt that I am only the Crazy one among all:’)
Omg yes!! I feel the exact same! I wanted Ryle to give us smth to let us know that he at least cares for his daughter and is putting in the effort and can be mature😩 disappointed we took one step forward and a thousand back cuz now I’m concerned about Emmy in the future too
I read ugly love and even though it was one of the most beautiful books I have ever come across, I’ll never read another CoHo book again. I’ve decided that reading is going to be a source of joy only and for me that means hearts starts rainbows and yes, smut. And I’m ok with that. Thank you for sharing the review!!!
that book was like an experience like it gave the stress and anxiety lily probably felt with ryle, not being able to enjoy the good things cause he’s in the back of our head 😭
Agreed with everything. I loved how honest you were and how you explained everything about both books so accurately. and also a very well done job with explaining your experience with the first book BEFORE it was popular. I also read it right as 'It Ends With Us' became 'Popular" I had no idea it was about abuse and I just related to so many of the points you made about people who are just now reading it, knowing its about abuse. I feel bad for the ppl who didn't get to experience It Ends With Us to its full potential. The 1st book brought out so many emotions in me I thought a book could never do. Overall an incredible review.
honestly i'm glad i chose to watch your video on this, including your spoilery thoughts, because i'll be honest, i'm not the biggest fan of It Ends With Us. but i think it's because that book is usually marketed as a romance when that's not even the point. so when i went into it, and you have the journal entries with Atlas being this amazing love interest, i assumed at first Ryle was just going to be a part of a love triangle. and then i realized that's not at all what was going on. i think Colleen Hoover was great when it came to addressing the topic of domestic violence and the book was well written. that being said, though, i went into it expecting a romance, so it wasn't at all what i wanted, and Atlas ended up being the only thing i truly enjoyed about the book, since he was the "romance factor", if you will, and a sweetie. all this to say i was obviously curious about this sequel despite knowing in my heart it probably wouldn't be my thing. but a part of me really wanted to see Atlas' story, and just like you i assumed we would get to know more about his past (not things we already knew). so since that's apparently not even what we got, i'm good with skipping this one. i've never commented on your channel before but i just love the way you express your thoughts so this was once again a great review :)
I totally agree with everything you’ve said!! I would’ve loved to see more of Atlas’s past as well. So sad we didn’t get that. Thank you so much for watching and commenting 🥹💗
I get my copy tomorrow and I can’t wait!! It Ends Us is absolutely one of my favorite books ever it broke my heart and then put it back together again. I fall in love with Lily and fall in love with Ryle and was broken when they were broken. I went completely blind too. I had no idea what the hell was going happen which is the way to go. I 100% agree. And I can’t wait for tomorrow. I have read anything about it starts with us and I refuse too. On that I’ll watch your review tomorrow lol
I think that in order for the author to portray what realistically would happen, she couldn’t give Ryle a redemption arch or development. Unfortunately, the majority of abusers who practice domestic violence DO NOT get punished. In order for Ryle to get redemption, he would have to be arrested. After prision, he’d need psychological support in order to stop blaming his traumatic past on his “temper” aka abusive behavior.
I haven't read It starts with us because I am too afraid to be triggered. I also divorced my husband because he abused me I still have to interact with him because we have a son. I actually read It ends with us without watching any reviews and even after experiencing it myself I never picked up the red flags. But in my experience, in regard to Ryle's development, abusive guys rarely do develop. My ex-husband is still a jerk he literally threatens me about ever moving on with another guy when he has already gone through two serious relationships in the two years we have been divorced. He insulted the hell out of me and threatened to take my kid away because he heard a rumor that I was with someone. Ryle's character development feels quite realistic compared to other abusers, so I think it's a good thing she keeps it real so people don't romanticize an abuser and believe they will change and stay in an abusive relationship that they have convinced themselves as a fairy tale romance. Too much toxic and problematic things are disguised as romance in books and movies
Omg yes this is literally my exact thought and comment I was looking for! Some many ppl are criticizing the storyline but don’t realize that THIS is how abusers mess with your mind even when you escape the relationship and I feel like the point to this book was not about love and romance fully but to bring awareness that not every relationship is butterflies and rainbows. It’s to help ppl see what victims deal with in abusive relationships all the mental and physical abuse you have to put up with scared of every move you make because you don’t want to “poke the bear”. So I have to disagree so much with majority of these comments saying that they disliked the book I felt like it was good. I myself was in a very abusive relationship and I’m just glad I was able to escape alive others aren’t so lucky 😢
Oh my goodness yes! It Ends With Us did exactly what it was supposed to do for me! I feel like the story should have ended with the end of that book. We know lily and Atlas were going to be together and I personally just didn’t feel like it was necessary for a “part two” of how they gradually made that happen. And I felt like while reading it, it was obvious that there was never supposed to be a sequel. Like you could feel the “lack of a book” within the writing somehow. I did like the extra parts of the book on Atlas’ end but just in general I think this book didn’t need to exist lol but the fans kinda pushed it so I understand why she made it happen from a business and opportunity standpoint
I agree with so many of your points about this book and It Ends With Us, but I think there's something to be said for the idea that the audience is rooting for Ryle to become a better person/do better, and he doesn't. It's pretty common in abusive relationships for the victim to see the good in their abuser, and to believe in their ability to be better (which they often encourage, with hollow apologies and things like that), even as they repeatedly refuse to change. I think that making us as the reader feel the same way has the same effect as hooking you in to caring about Ryle before you can see the red flags yourself. (Doesn't make it fun to read though, I agree)
Yeah the whole book was just Atlast and Lily stepping on eggshells finding the right way right time to tell Ryle about there relationship, instead of it being mostly about their relationship. Its a good book, i just feel like it could have been done better, or could have been made bigger. It felt too rushed. It felt like a lot of pages have been wasted. But i do feel that now because of this book we need a book #3 since this one was leaving us with so many left out details and new characters.
I absolutely hated the way CoHo somehow made Ryle even worse in this book, just to get stuff messy and complicated I guess, for the sake of more writing material. At the end of ‘It Ends with Us’ I honestly felt there was hope for him and I was truly hoping we would see him resolve his issues. I didn’t love Ryle to begin with, but I did empathise with him on a level. Lily did things that pissed him off, and his anger felt justifiable to an extent, but his reactions to that anger was totally unacceptable. He was a broken human being and maybe if it was another story, or another woman, she could’ve helped Ryle navigate through this. But Lily already had her fair share of abuse in her life. I was hoping we would see Ryle sober up and deal with his issues in this book, because when he wasn’t angry he was absolutely great. But CoHo made him worse. I get it that she tried to depict the idea that when you separate from a person, it’s the good moments that go away, and you are stuck with dealing with only the bad ones. That’s what she depicted in this story because it wasn’t for one instant that Ryle felt good to me… and I hated that. I started becoming genuinely scared for dear life every time his name popped up on a page. I didn’t want or expect this.
@@Namel3ssgh0ull In first book you can see some redeeming characters of Ryle which makes story complicated, And Now he is just turned into typical as*hole with no character whatsoever.
And lastly, I have to say, I feel we see a completely different side of Atlas than we did in the previous book. In ‘It Ends with Us’ we mostly saw the eighteen year old boy, and we didn’t see much of present day Atlas, but he didn’t seem as witty, snarky, or confident as the Atlas in ‘It Starts with Us’. I like this Atlas, but I don’t think he felt the same as the one in the previous book. I may be wrong, but that’s just my personal opinion. 🤷🏻♂️
Nah, you are right. I also felt atlas in it ends with us was totally different from the one in it starts with us. I really want to understand the evolution behind that?? He was too cheesy for me.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I went into this book blind and did not like Ryle at all. He gave me the creeps in the opening scene but I was just rolling with it because I heard the book was good. Friends to Lover is my favorite trope so I really fell for Atlas.
I finished it last night. I agree with you. I enjoyed it but not storyline I expected. I was expecting a big twist as well. Definitely not romance rather women’s fiction. I read “Too late” after your recommendation before this and I really enjoyed that book.
Actually she is right we used to make decisions by just thinking about one side we should see by seeking both sides bad and good this book filled us so much feeling about atlas and Lily and no doubt after reading i learnt from atlas in neutral way we should see from ryle point of view too as he also went through some trauma in his childhood as shooting his own brother i really think there should be atleast one change should be given to show us his prospect like we see atlas IT STAYS WITH US as learning
Honestly i had no idea what it ends with us was about i took it from one of my teachers classrooms years ago which was when i was in 8th grade back in 2018 but never read it until 2019 because a girl in my biology class said she loved the book and it was a romance novel(which is my favorite genre). So, i went into it blindly so i was fully preparing to walk into a normal childrens love book because the fact i found it in middle school in an English teachers class library which she said it was a good book aswell.. NOT A CHILDRENS BOOK definitely but i had no clue what it was about and i was shocked and it left me traumatized about relationships and honestly i had to step away from the book and set it down for how intense it is. But during the 1st book I really didn’t give to thoughts about atlas other than from her teens and her ellen dairies. when i heard this book came out i re read the it ends with us book and read the new book but I ended up falling in love with atlas harder than i did with ryle in the first few chapters so i did like the it ends with us series if im being honest.
I Absolutely loved both books but i completely see your point about wanting to see more of ryles development. i kind of want a third book with ryles pov and how he develops
Im so happy i saw your video! I recently just read both books in a matter of 4 days (i was on vacation in my familys cabin)And after reading those 2 books, i did not bring them back with me cuz i did not want to read tham again. And i needed someone to talk to about all this!! I 100% agree with you from begging to end! 100% ! I was also fooled and did not expect these 2 books to be so crazy! But i feel like I need a third book just because i felt the second book was to repetitive from the first one and we missed so much stuff that could have been thrown in there. I want to see Ryle find happiness too, even with all his issues.
I went into "It Ends With Us" completely blind also. I liked that one the most of the 4 I have read so far ("It Ends With Us", "Ugly Love", "Verity" and "It Starts With Us"). "It Starts With Us" was a bit lackluster for me unfortunately. It didn't have the same impact and was just lackluster. It just was not necessary. I would have liked to have Lily get the last POV but oh well. Just felt meh. I also would have liked to learn if Ryle turned himself around and improved with anger management. The ending was rushed too.
thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for this video. i just finished the book and just sat there trying to find the words to process this book that i really enjoyed. i 100% agree with you about how hyped the book got compared to the trauma i went through reading it the first time close minded. you took all my thoughts and put them out there when i didn’t know how 🤣
I just completed this book and my fiest thought before starting it was 'do i want to read this book? Should it exist?' I think it's better to leave some books alone. I felt there should be one or two chapters from Ryle's side. Theo is like to introduce comedy in the story. There should be more of that table discussion with Ryle. I know the story is to make Lily strong but it would be more helpful to have that discussion. I feel everything that you shared Nikki.
I agree with your thoughts before reading the book. I was really on the fence on if I wanted to read it or not. I just finished - but I absolutely loved it! So much. I wasn’t expecting it but I feel like my heart is full. I also agree with that you like to know as little as possible when starting a book. I always look for your recommendations then don’t listen to summaries until after I read the book. I want to know as little as possible but still want good book recommendations. ❤ I totally hear you out for your feelings after. I personally am glad she didn’t wrap the Ryle stuff up in a pretty little bow because for me this felt so much more realistic. I really loved both books and was truly expecting not to. Heart. ❤ Love hearing varying reading experiences! Thanks for sharing!
Omg finally someone’s said what I was thinking. it ends with us made me fall in love with Ryle. And Yes that took a complete turn and he turned out to be really shitty, but Lily and Atlas… I just wasn’t invested with them AT ALL. I found their age difference icky when they initially met. The second book seems like a after thought and just written to appease Lily and Atlas fans. Like you I’ll keep an open mind and read It starts with us.
Honestly, I felt like the whole point of the reason leaving Ryle was so difficult in the first book was because he was a good man. He has ANGER issues due to TRAUMA. That was the whole shock at the end of the book. The second book makes him a narcissist asshole who never loved her. Horrible character development, it ruined the entire first book. The fight he had with Atlas made me wanna vomit cause I cringed so hard. So stupid. 2/5. (Pls don’t take this personally, it’s just my opinion lol)
I TOTALLY 110% AGREE WITH YOU, AND WHEN I TALKED ABOUT "IT ENDS WITH US" WITH MY FRIENDS, THEY WERE LITERALLY LIKE "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, LIKE ITS A REALLY BUTTERFLY WORTHY BOOK" JUST TO BE CLEAR IT'S NOT, AND OMG I'M HAPPY THAT SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME 😭
thank you so much for not making me feel like a weirdo for being more invested in Ryle than Atlas even though I got into it ends with us thinking that am gonna hate Ryle and love Atlas and cause in the end i loved the journey of LILY BLOSSOM BLOOM!!! thank you so much for this review
I think the whole reason there wasn’t a further conversation with Ryle about what Lily needed from his is because it isn’t in Ryles character to sit down and listen it was quick and fast because that’s all his temperament allowed for.
When you started out talking about how everyone knows what This Ends With Us is about…I thought this is why I don’t look at book reviews and I really lucked out. When I read it two months ago, I knew it was popular but I knew almost nothing about it. It was the best reading experience I have had in awhile, and while I can’t say that I saw it coming with Ryle, I can say that I was definitely intrigued by Atlas’s character. First loves are intense and I wanted to know more. I was not thrilled by It Starts With Us; I would like Colleen Hoover to write a book about Atlas’s lost years or a prequel. As far as the intervention and trying to help Ryle understand that he’s got problems-he knows! He just doesn’t care. People like this operate on principles of power and control-which they take from others. They don’t care about others needs or rights
Everything you said is exactly how I felt. :-) I read IEWU back in 12/21 without any knowledge of what it was about and I loved it, but was never wanting Lily to end up with Atlas in that book..just wanted her to be safe and happy. I fell in love with Ryle within the first book way more than I could have ever "swooned" for Atlas in the 2nd book. I was so sad that Ryle/Lily ended up breaking up, although I knew it was for the best. I was not really excited about the 2nd book AT ALL! It took me over a week to even open it. I finished ISWU in one sitting and was kind of...meh, this was really unnecessary.. so much redundancy and blah blah blah-Atlas is the most wonderful human being on the face of the earth. :/ It was eye rolll - after eye roll. I was not really pushing for Atlas and Lily as much as I was for Ryle and Lily in the first one. The second book made Ryle such a villain and so much worse than he really needed to be. How about try to help him through his anger and not just keep pushing onto the reader how bad he was. He has a child, so put him somewhere that he can be better. Maybe he starts going to therapy or parenting classes or even says he is sorry that they did not work out but is going to be a great dad to Emerson...not just make him even more awful.. thumbs down.
YES!!! I'm late to the party, but here I am after finishing reading it last night. I honestly pre-ordered it when the news came out, because of the hype, but when it arrived on my kindle in october I just put it off because with time I started to think it was not necessary. I decided to read it just lately. The problem with me is I do not like fanservice - the same in tv show when they bring back shows ended ages ago just because the fans are missing the characters end they end up ruining completely the show. This book is that, Colleen wrote it because fans asked her that. Too much. And you can see she wasn't sure about this, because in the book there are too many copy-paste from IEWU parts. I do feel the same like you about IEWU and the hype that is around it now, when I read people saying "ugh I hate Ryle, I want her to be with Atlas" I'm like, "no you don't hate him, can't hate him, you hate him because you know what will happen" because Ryle is so likable and charming and amazing in the beginning and then he broke all our hearts and Atlas was always in the back. Hell! When I was reading it - before knowing what would happen - people were saying that they wanted Lily to be with Atlas and not Ryle and I was like "how??? why??? we don't even see Atlas how can you want them together just based on the journal???". I was a convinced Ryle fan and I would have fought everyone on a duel abou that. ISWU is sad because he doesn't have a character development, he's just the same asshole he was, and it honestly broke my heart when the scene of the door happened. I would have loved to see his improvments, the only thing we see of him is at the drop off but is like in the background. I still liked the non-toxic part in ISWS, the parts where Atlas and Lily were falling back in love, and of course I coudn't stop smiling during those parts, because they were cute and yes, they both deserved this ending - but it was already clear in the ending of IEWS. But was it necessary? No.
When talking about Lily having to coparent with the man the abuser her you pointed out that this is something that could happen in real life. Well I just wanted to say that this is something that happened in my life. I was very much harassed and stalked when I started dating again. Colleen did do a good job of showing what is life post separation from an abusive/narcissistic ex. But I think that could have been done better. Overall it was just okay, I didn’t think there was enough drama or tense for a post separation love story I guess.
I 100% agree with you on both books! I went into IEWU blind, also fell in love with Ryle, and I was shocked when that relationship took a dark turn. I thought the book ended perfectly, and I really didn't want a second book. And, I was right. ISWU had its cute moments, but overall, I felt like it was an extended epilogue with no plot.
My friend gave me this book to read. I decided not to search anything about it not even read the back of it!! I felt anger, I felt sadness, I cried and laughed. I’m sooo glad I didn’t search anything which would result im tampering with my POV of this book.
I actually read It Ends With Us for the first time this week. It was my first Hoover book. I truly went in not knowing it was going to take a turn to DA. I wish it had trigger warnings because I probably wouldn't have chosen to read it. I will say from the beginning I did not like Ryle. He didnt respect any of her boundaries from even before he put a hand on her. And Lily romanticized his action during the beginning. That's where the problem lies for me.
I have just read these two and made a video about it as well. I would like to get your input on the "romance" bc i def dont think this should be called romance. And i def agreed with every point you mentioned its kinda crazy haha
yeah, i didn’t want this book in the first place because reading about the last straw was extremely disturbing and seeing lily break the cycle, ryle showing hints that he’s gonna get the help he needs for emerson, and lily trying things out with atlas was enough. and like you said, i wish there was more character development in Ryle, Lily and Atlas bonding (not trauma-bonding) without being scared of Ryle and no more abuse. but the biggest issue is it’s romanticised and labelled as ‘romance’.
I’m back! Loved loved “It’s Starts With Us” it was exactly what the follow up needed to be because “It Ends with Us” that book messed me up! No lie like it was a cute cry! No I sobbed I had to wake my husband up for comfort because I was sobbing a week later spoke to my therapist about the book because of how it emotionally affected me no joke! So this was a breath of fresh air! Light and sappy I cried because of how beautiful and happy they were. And I really wanted them to be happy and they got that. Best I ever read no. Did I really enjoy it and completely devour it within 3 days yes
I hated this book! I like that Lily and Atlas had their happy ending. I enjoyed the relationship between Atlas & Theo but it was just ok. I anticipated so much and I was waiting for something to happen and nothing ever did. It was just boring for me
I really liked the ending of it ends with us when emerson is born and lily tells ryle why they should part away, and when she meets atlas at the end and we get to know that emerson is spending time with both of her parents. But I didn't like it starts with us that much I wanted to see more of ryle, his character development.... And his ending should also have been happy where he has equal rights on emerson as lily has, lily should definitely end up with atlas but her bond with ryle should have been much neutral in which they still share naked truths.
I am also a die hard fan of the chemistry of Ryle and Lily .But things are not goes in that way I was expecting for both of them.Every single page involve Atlas presence in Lily s life burnt my heart. And I really hate that I just mad in love with R🥀L. But at the end,this novel completely Broke me up into pieces.And destroy me from inside.I will never read "it's start with us."Also "it's end with us "never again .what ever is there This heart is always with the star surgeons sweetheart Lily💔💔💔💔
I loved this book because it made me feel so much! Not many books can do it. Is the story wrong? Yes, but loved all the emotions it made me experience. This was actually the first book I've ever pre-ordered, but with all the emotions I went through, I wanted a HEA, and I felt it wasn't over. After a few months, I saw that "It Ends with Us" was written many years ago, and that's where I agree with you that she never planned on writing the second book. (I didn't see her update asking what the readers wanted.) So I totally get if this was mainly done as a cash-in opportunity. (Good for her.) Thennnn it came in the mail day of... and I was frustrated that "It Ends with Us" has a matte cover and "It Starts with Us" is glossy. So both books are different on the cover, which I know is minimum, but I don't know if it made it feel like this new book is more of an afterthought or a rush to get it out the door as quickly as possible to profit from. (I haven't read it yet since this kinda grinds my gears a bit, so I skipped the spoilers section. lol)
You know why Ryle didn't have development? Because he's a filler character. Atlas has no personality, so making Ryle the devil makes it easier to make Atlas look good.
I was really hoping that there would be some character development for Ryle but, lol, i got nothing. Ryle was reduced to that abusive, jealous husband in which everybody hates. We all know that Ryle was madly in love with Lily, they were both in love with each other. (I think I would have prefer if the book said something about all of the three chatacters being fucked up and then they all go to therapy) but no, It starts with us was just a book published for Lily and Atlas fans. I really expected more.
For me, everything besides the Josh plot felt like fanfic. I don’t think this book needed to be written. While I still enjoyed the read, it wasn’t as impactful as the first book.
I hear what your saying, however, like you I had no idea what the book was about back when I picked it up….. and I honestly saw it coming. Just based on her childhood she was inevitably going to fall for someone abusive. I went into it thinking the book was going to be about social issues, racism or sexism, lgbt issues or some kind of social injustice because of the title. I actually hated this book, hate the main characters, sends a terrible message. This wasn’t a poor disadvantaged woman who literally couldn’t escape her abuser, she had money and resources at her disposal and chose to stay and even protect her abuser and show him compassion he didn’t deserve. I just could not get behind it. I’ve had many rants with people about how they could love this book🤣 won’t be reading the sequel! Thanks for sharing.
Exactly I mean ryle’s character development was ONE thing I was soooooo looking forward to cause his words were promising and he did seem like he would change and be better even if little by little but nope. He just became this complete asshole for whom I no longer hold any empathy or concern because neither does he. I thought he would be portrayed as a mature person, ofc his struggle and trauma are valid but he himself ruined his perfect marriage and not taking any responsibility after burning it down like a child was just not it. As much as we all love Atlas for being the standard and- as he rightfully should be. He IS the standard. BUT…Ryle and Atlas being such contrasting characters just made it a little less believable if that makes sense ? Cause one second you see Atlas being the mature, understanding person and making the right decisions…you see Ryle being so unreasonable talking with consideration to his convenience and his only regardless of who he hurts. There really should have been more improvement from his side which ofc we get to see in the last chapter but that’s a very very tiny glimpse of it which wasn’t satisfactory enough considering the amount of damage he’s also done in the very book. It also felt odd how Lily and Atlas NEVER messed up…like ? They’re human and you always ALWAYS make mistakes- big or small ( being specific to relationships ) but these two go together like puzzle pieces without any effort, which is a great thing sure, but it’s either me who’s used to people messing up or it’s actually valid cause I’m not even talking about a happy ending that felt weird, they deserved that 500% but what about small tiny slip ups along the way ? Other than that the new add on Josh was really wholesome, I liked it, in terms of experiencing more into atlas’s life I like this book still simply because of the attachment I have with Lily’s character and how much I adore her, I had always hoped for Ryle’s redemption but nvm…as for Atlas, we all knew he’s endgame cause he’s the perfect human basically But there were still some gaps that are unfilled and a part of me still isn’t satisfied
I have not read it starts with us but I have read it ends with us and that book broke my soul n I been debating on reading this one bc it starts with us I went into that book blind n it was one of my favorite reads and when I heard it starts with us was coming out I was like ima watch reviews first to see if it's worth buying n at this point I'm not sure if im goin to read this book yet but I agree with everything u said like I thought we were gonna get the big gap back story on atles n as far as the Ellen letters I wasn't a fan of thoes
@@nikkisbooknook lol oh God lol like I agree with everything u said in this video n it should have been the gap were atles and lily were apart like wish we got that story instead of a copy n paste like it ends with us broke my soul like that book had mi in tears while reading like that book had mi an emotional reck for a week
Wait sorry to comment again but I GOT IT!! It’s Harry Potter and the Cursed Child!! Is it necessary to the story? absolutely not. Is fan made fun YES! So with that the book is good and unnecessary 😂😂 k bye
It really doesn’t mean anything. Just saying he wants her to be his. It was just supposed to be a silly play on words because of the “just keep swimming” line from the first book.
Ryle in ' it ends with us ' feels like a human being ,a broken human being .But in ' it starts with us ' coho made him like a monster i know he was not the best character but it was so unnecessary.
I completely agree with almost every point you mentioned. ‘It Ends with Us’ ended on such a happy note with such great hope for the future, it totally didn’t need this sequel. I didn’t find Atlas too swoon-worthy either in the first book. He was a great human being - kind and helpful and someone Lily deserves for sure, and she got him. But we didn’t need to know all the nitty-gritty details of them coming together, like you mentioned. I could’ve easily lived without reading this book and been happy that Lily found the love she deserved.
I believe this book yes was about Lily and Atlas but for me it was more about about Josh and Atlas childhood and how he didn’t want his brother to suffer what he did… idk I just loved both!
The ONLY part of this story that I loved was the plot line with Josh. It was traumatic to read about his struggles, yes… but I loved seeing the dynamic develop between him and Atlas. The whole idea behind ‘It Starts with Us’ was also really cute. I feel that if this story did anything, it was allowing CoHo to bring up the story of kids like Josh into the light and depict their strife. I was so overwhelmed while reading about him.
Totally agree the Josh storyline was so sweet
There should have been a chapter or two from Ryle’s perspective too. I was hoping for it since it had atlas’ too.
I feel like a chapter from Ryle’s perspective would be an attempt to get the reader on his side, when the whole purpose of the first book was to stop relieving the abusive man of the responsibility and the severity of their actions. Just me
I have recently read this book. I agree he has no right to hit her which was the reason for them to separate. Lily needed help. Atlas left, Atlas wasn't man enough to express his feelings for her, he gets the chance to choose when he is ready to be with her. WTF is that? Lily never hesitated to do anything for Atlas and he couldn't even go and say hi!
What I don't get, after the first time, she should of helped him through counseling and so on...
Lily has never given her husband 100% of her.
I really hate the fact that she met Ryle. He should have never met her. Atlas doesn't even deserve her either.
@@zorishawong7989she didn’t give Ryle her 100%?? He pushed her down the stairs and she still chose to stay with him to help him. If you ask me, she was generous. That pos deserves to be in jail. I can’t believe there are people supporting Ryle. It shows how messed up of a world we live in.
Honestly, I'm not defending Ryle's actions. But I do also agree that Lily never gave her 100% to him because, even after years of being apart, she was still obviously infatuated with Atlas. That can cause alot of strain on a normal relationship let alone one between two already messed up individuals. What I will say is that, I don't think ISWU should have existed, especially when IEWU felt like closure at the end. Some people are just not cut out to being in a relationship and I'd like to think that deep down Ryle already knows that she's going back to Atlas anyways. Plus seeing how happy he is as a father, by the end of the first book, I wanna believe that he would take it upon himself to get therapy if only for Emmy's sake. I know we were purposefully mislead to think of him as this sweet character in the beginning of IEWU for plot reasons, but I'm just also sad that, basically, his mental illness is just downright villainised, like it's the obvious excuse for why he becomes an abuser. It doesn't make it okay, but if this story is about breaking cycles which I believe even Ryle was trying to do by avoiding relationships/children like they're the plague, then I also want to believe that he's also smart enough to realise he needs to change. ISWU just sh*ts all over that.
Completely agree with you! It felt rushed to me. I wanted so much that we didn’t get and I was like “this is it?”. The wedding we barely got any of. We didn’t see a proposal or any of them moving in together. Just really disappointed me! I didn’t enjoy the rehashing of everything. Felt like wasted space! I definitely agree that these aren’t romance books too!
SO rushed! Ugh.
I 100% agree with basically everything you said about the book's narrative shifting over time. I also went into this book blind and absolutely fell in love with Ryle. The new readers are going into this book with the "I'm gonna hate Ryle and love Atlas" mindset which really changes how you perceive the book. I too was not very excited as I was much more invested in Ryle than atlas ngl. That being said I'm glad lily didn't end up with him. Thank you for not making me feel like a weirdo for thinking this way.
Ugh yes thank you! I promise we’re not the weirdos 😭
You said it! I was rooting for Ryle and Lily (went into the book blind). I even hoped for a magical redemption arc for Ryle *ik ik*. I didn't hate Atlas but necessarily didn't love him either (ellen letter were boringgg). At the time I was reading so many HEAs and It ends with us was so eye-opening to me. I'm sad that most people now wont get that experience and wont get to feel what this book actually means.
@@MoreToSan yup.. I also hoped for ryle to get some kinda good ending... She just threw him off:)
You wanted her to end up with the abuser.
I also went into it blind and had this same experience! It definitely made the book so much better in my opinion. At one point (before we knew how bad Ryle was) I couldn’t fathom that she would ever pick Atlas over Ryle 😂
As someone who just read her first Colleen Hoover book and this one being that one, I did not hear or know anything about the books I went in blind. I also read it starts with us blindly. It was great. Not sure how I feel about it yet but the story kept me reading
I also felt so terrible after “It ends with us” for days or maybe a week after reading. But, I am excited to hear about Atlas and Lily!
I read it ends with us when it was getting the hype on booktok. I went into it as a romance because most of the videos contained how awesome Atlas Corrigan is. But this book totally shattered me. It mainly focused on domestic abuse and as someone who has went through her entire life witnessing domestic abuse I was traumatized after finishing it. Like collen hoover totally described the emotions of what a child feels when she witnesses domestic abuse happening to her mother. I literally connected with lily and with collen with notes from the author. The only good thing about the book was Lily standing up for herself and started a new life as a single mother for her daughter. And yes Atlas.
And In this book I had hopes that the chapter with ryle will be left in the past or the focus of attention will not be on him. Like it was good he was not redeemed or anything. But it felt more like the book was about how ryle is going to feel about it.
I had high expectations from this book. I wanted to know more and more about Atlas. My heart warmed whenever Atlas spoke or whenever there was a chapter from him. I wish someday Collen writes a book just from Atlas POV and his journey.
I loved this book though because I felt this book was an epilogue for the beginnig of happily ever after of Atlas and Lily. ❤
i absolutely agree with everything you said and can relate! this book was amazing and totally worth the read ❤❤
I happen to love the book. My opinion is that developing Ryle much more would take away from the fact that most abusers in reality don't change, or change very little. I think it was the messy but more accurate way to portray him when he lost his love and then watched her with the guy he was already jealous of. Ryle, to me, sounds delusional a lot, and he'd already been in therapy since he was a kid and nothing seemed to help. The anger management thing felt like a step in the right direction. He doesn't think he's wrong many times, so how is he going to handle people calling him out on it? Not well. Thankfully I don't know what this is like!
And I'm someone who went to the 2016 signing for this book & read it the month it came out, so all I really knew was the synopsis & what Colleen said in the q&a about it being the hardest book she'd written then. I also hate how people try to spoil what it's about and others judge it and say that it sounds bad right off the bat. The REASON the 1st one was written was because it was pulled from CoHo's parents' relationship & Colleen wanted to explore what her mom went through at the same time as making readers understand when a relationship is toxic. THIS is why she's so passionate about no redemption for Ryle.
Just my thoughts. Thanks for your honesty!
You made such a good point about 'It ends with us' there are people who loves Lily and Atlas or thinks the stories about Lily or Ryan but for me the stories about Lily and her journey from her mother to her daughter.
Absolutely! It’s all about her mother’s story and her battle with domestic violence at the end of the day and that’s what I think should be focused on.
Couldn't agree more with Ryle's character development - I honestly was expecting to see Ryle getting the help he obviously needed in it starts with us. Not saying that he and Lily should be together, but I felt there were so much more could be done from Lily and Ryle's family to help him get into therapy at least. As much as I did not like Ryle's character since he hurt Lily, I felt bad for him.
Agreed, Ryle was an abuser and by no means did she need to stay with him. But I feel like he could've received more support from the people around him like Lily received to clearly battle through the things he was facing as well. I'm not justifying his actions by any means.
I also didn’t like the fact that the intervention was so short lived. Ryle didn’t say anything at all. He just accepted everything. I feel if it were that easy, Lily should’ve had done that long ago. I expected some retaliation, some explanations on his part, but there were absolutely none. That so didn’t seem like the Ryle I had begun genuinely dreading.
I think everything played out that way because Marshall and Alyssa were there. If it was only Lilly and Ryle having a conversation, he would feel as if he had the upper hand and could explode without any witnesses to his horrid behavior.
I wish she can do a another part of November 9..I just felt it..
I agree!! I read It Ends With Us back when it was first released in 2016 lol, and I was shocked by the story. It helped me view abusive relationships differently and increased my empathy for people in these situations who say they still love their partner. I never judged them, but I simply did not understand. (In 2016, I was also a lot younger obvs with less life experience than I have now.) The "love story" with Atlas always felt like a side thing that I didn't care about. It Ends With Us felt more like women's fiction than romance. I don't plan to read It Starts With Us because I feel like I got what I needed from the story. Thank you for the review!
I literally got traumatised after reading It Ends With Us. Cause I didn’t have any idea about the book, I started to read thinking its all about love and happy thoughts with a little bit of twist and during the first few chapters I started to like Ryle but slowly and gradually I got shocked seeing his bad side which ultimately made me feel terrible. Though Lily did great by divorcing him and moving a step forward with Atlas. But recently I started reading the It Starts With Us which obviously you are right ,the journals are too much and the book tells more about the previous book and honestly deep down I was thinking Ryle was going to be a good person now and like Lily found a perfect man the same way Ryle will find someone who can heal him. After reading those two books , since my friends and everyone told me that they loved the book so so much and posting about it everywhere, even I wanted to feel the same. But I was more traumatised then loving the books . So thank you for opening up your thoughts with us and seeing many of us feel the same. Cause I felt that I am only the Crazy one among all:’)
Omg yes!! I feel the exact same! I wanted Ryle to give us smth to let us know that he at least cares for his daughter and is putting in the effort and can be mature😩 disappointed we took one step forward and a thousand back cuz now I’m concerned about Emmy in the future too
Absolutely! Like that poor girl 😪
I read ugly love and even though it was one of the most beautiful books I have ever come across, I’ll never read another CoHo book again. I’ve decided that reading is going to be a source of joy only and for me that means hearts starts rainbows and yes, smut. And I’m ok with that. Thank you for sharing the review!!!
I totally get that!
that book was like an experience like it gave the stress and anxiety lily probably felt with ryle, not being able to enjoy the good things cause he’s in the back of our head 😭
Agreed with everything. I loved how honest you were and how you explained everything about both books so accurately. and also a very well done job with explaining your experience with the first book BEFORE it was popular. I also read it right as 'It Ends With Us' became 'Popular" I had no idea it was about abuse and I just related to so many of the points you made about people who are just now reading it, knowing its about abuse. I feel bad for the ppl who didn't get to experience It Ends With Us to its full potential. The 1st book brought out so many emotions in me I thought a book could never do. Overall an incredible review.
honestly i'm glad i chose to watch your video on this, including your spoilery thoughts, because i'll be honest, i'm not the biggest fan of It Ends With Us. but i think it's because that book is usually marketed as a romance when that's not even the point. so when i went into it, and you have the journal entries with Atlas being this amazing love interest, i assumed at first Ryle was just going to be a part of a love triangle. and then i realized that's not at all what was going on. i think Colleen Hoover was great when it came to addressing the topic of domestic violence and the book was well written. that being said, though, i went into it expecting a romance, so it wasn't at all what i wanted, and Atlas ended up being the only thing i truly enjoyed about the book, since he was the "romance factor", if you will, and a sweetie. all this to say i was obviously curious about this sequel despite knowing in my heart it probably wouldn't be my thing. but a part of me really wanted to see Atlas' story, and just like you i assumed we would get to know more about his past (not things we already knew). so since that's apparently not even what we got, i'm good with skipping this one. i've never commented on your channel before but i just love the way you express your thoughts so this was once again a great review :)
I totally agree with everything you’ve said!! I would’ve loved to see more of Atlas’s past as well. So sad we didn’t get that. Thank you so much for watching and commenting 🥹💗
Honestly I do agree with whatever you said... It ends with us cannot be said a love story ....
I get my copy tomorrow and I can’t wait!! It Ends Us is absolutely one of my favorite books ever it broke my heart and then put it back together again. I fall in love with Lily and fall in love with Ryle and was broken when they were broken. I went completely blind too. I had no idea what the hell was going happen which is the way to go. I 100% agree. And I can’t wait for tomorrow. I have read anything about it starts with us and I refuse too. On that I’ll watch your review tomorrow lol
Haha thank you for checking in! I hope you enjoy it. Come back with your thoughts 💗
I think that in order for the author to portray what realistically would happen, she couldn’t give Ryle a redemption arch or development. Unfortunately, the majority of abusers who practice domestic violence DO NOT get punished. In order for Ryle to get redemption, he would have to be arrested. After prision, he’d need psychological support in order to stop blaming his traumatic past on his “temper” aka abusive behavior.
I haven't read It starts with us because I am too afraid to be triggered. I also divorced my husband because he abused me I still have to interact with him because we have a son. I actually read It ends with us without watching any reviews and even after experiencing it myself I never picked up the red flags. But in my experience, in regard to Ryle's development, abusive guys rarely do develop. My ex-husband is still a jerk he literally threatens me about ever moving on with another guy when he has already gone through two serious relationships in the two years we have been divorced. He insulted the hell out of me and threatened to take my kid away because he heard a rumor that I was with someone. Ryle's character development feels quite realistic compared to other abusers, so I think it's a good thing she keeps it real so people don't romanticize an abuser and believe they will change and stay in an abusive relationship that they have convinced themselves as a fairy tale romance. Too much toxic and problematic things are disguised as romance in books and movies
Omg yes this is literally my exact thought and comment I was looking for! Some many ppl are criticizing the storyline but don’t realize that THIS is how abusers mess with your mind even when you escape the relationship and I feel like the point to this book was not about love and romance fully but to bring awareness that not every relationship is butterflies and rainbows. It’s to help ppl see what victims deal with in abusive relationships all the mental and physical abuse you have to put up with scared of every move you make because you don’t want to “poke the bear”. So I have to disagree so much with majority of these comments saying that they disliked the book I felt like it was good. I myself was in a very abusive relationship and I’m just glad I was able to escape alive others aren’t so lucky 😢
I agree with you ! I read this book without knowing anything about it! I fell in love with Ryle and didn’t really care for atlas
Now in “start with us” I fell in love with atlas
Oh my goodness yes! It Ends With Us did exactly what it was supposed to do for me! I feel like the story should have ended with the end of that book. We know lily and Atlas were going to be together and I personally just didn’t feel like it was necessary for a “part two” of how they gradually made that happen. And I felt like while reading it, it was obvious that there was never supposed to be a sequel. Like you could feel the “lack of a book” within the writing somehow. I did like the extra parts of the book on Atlas’ end but just in general I think this book didn’t need to exist lol but the fans kinda pushed it so I understand why she made it happen from a business and opportunity standpoint
I agree with so many of your points about this book and It Ends With Us, but I think there's something to be said for the idea that the audience is rooting for Ryle to become a better person/do better, and he doesn't. It's pretty common in abusive relationships for the victim to see the good in their abuser, and to believe in their ability to be better (which they often encourage, with hollow apologies and things like that), even as they repeatedly refuse to change. I think that making us as the reader feel the same way has the same effect as hooking you in to caring about Ryle before you can see the red flags yourself. (Doesn't make it fun to read though, I agree)
Yeah the whole book was just Atlast and Lily stepping on eggshells finding the right way right time to tell Ryle about there relationship, instead of it being mostly about their relationship. Its a good book, i just feel like it could have been done better, or could have been made bigger. It felt too rushed. It felt like a lot of pages have been wasted. But i do feel that now because of this book we need a book #3 since this one was leaving us with so many left out details and new characters.
I think you’d have to pay me to read a third book of this world at this point honestly 😅
I absolutely hated the way CoHo somehow made Ryle even worse in this book, just to get stuff messy and complicated I guess, for the sake of more writing material. At the end of ‘It Ends with Us’ I honestly felt there was hope for him and I was truly hoping we would see him resolve his issues. I didn’t love Ryle to begin with, but I did empathise with him on a level. Lily did things that pissed him off, and his anger felt justifiable to an extent, but his reactions to that anger was totally unacceptable. He was a broken human being and maybe if it was another story, or another woman, she could’ve helped Ryle navigate through this. But Lily already had her fair share of abuse in her life. I was hoping we would see Ryle sober up and deal with his issues in this book, because when he wasn’t angry he was absolutely great. But CoHo made him worse. I get it that she tried to depict the idea that when you separate from a person, it’s the good moments that go away, and you are stuck with dealing with only the bad ones. That’s what she depicted in this story because it wasn’t for one instant that Ryle felt good to me… and I hated that. I started becoming genuinely scared for dear life every time his name popped up on a page. I didn’t want or expect this.
Omg! I totally agree with you ❤️
I so much wanted a character development of ryle in this one😔
@@zarawani1387 why would an abuser need character development? who would even write that
@@Namel3ssgh0ull is it bad if someone turns into a good person?
@@Namel3ssgh0ull In first book you can see some redeeming characters of Ryle which makes story complicated, And Now he is just turned into typical as*hole with no character whatsoever.
And lastly, I have to say, I feel we see a completely different side of Atlas than we did in the previous book. In ‘It Ends with Us’ we mostly saw the eighteen year old boy, and we didn’t see much of present day Atlas, but he didn’t seem as witty, snarky, or confident as the Atlas in ‘It Starts with Us’. I like this Atlas, but I don’t think he felt the same as the one in the previous book. I may be wrong, but that’s just my personal opinion. 🤷🏻♂️
Nah, you are right. I also felt atlas in it ends with us was totally different from the one in it starts with us. I really want to understand the evolution behind that?? He was too cheesy for me.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I went into this book blind and did not like Ryle at all. He gave me the creeps in the opening scene but I was just rolling with it because I heard the book was good. Friends to Lover is my favorite trope so I really fell for Atlas.
Same here! Atlas is so dreamy! I fell for him from the very begining!
I finished it last night. I agree with you. I enjoyed it but not storyline I expected. I was expecting a big twist as well. Definitely not romance rather women’s fiction. I read “Too late” after your recommendation before this and I really enjoyed that book.
So glad you enjoyed Too Late!
It feels so good to have someone voice this!
:’)
Actually she is right we used to make decisions by just thinking about one side we should see by seeking both sides bad and good this book filled us so much feeling about atlas and Lily and no doubt after reading i learnt from atlas in neutral way we should see from ryle point of view too as he also went through some trauma in his childhood as shooting his own brother i really think there should be atleast one change should be given to show us his prospect like we see atlas IT STAYS WITH US as learning
DamnYES. I would love to see Ryle life’s prospective and how trauma can impact our lives and behaviors
Honestly i had no idea what it ends with us was about i took it from one of my teachers classrooms years ago which was when i was in 8th grade back in 2018 but never read it until 2019 because a girl in my biology class said she loved the book and it was a romance novel(which is my favorite genre). So, i went into it blindly so i was fully preparing to walk into a normal childrens love book because the fact i found it in middle school in an English teachers class library which she said it was a good book aswell.. NOT A CHILDRENS BOOK definitely but i had no clue what it was about and i was shocked and it left me traumatized about relationships and honestly i had to step away from the book and set it down for how intense it is. But during the 1st book I really didn’t give to thoughts about atlas other than from her teens and her ellen dairies. when i heard this book came out i re read the it ends with us book and read the new book but I ended up falling in love with atlas harder than i did with ryle in the first few chapters so i did like the it ends with us series if im being honest.
I really didn’t like the first one, but loved this second one. I guess it’s because I see a lot of my husband in atlas 🤷🏻♀️
I Absolutely loved both books but i completely see your point about wanting to see more of ryles development. i kind of want a third book with ryles pov and how he develops
I don’t think there’s any way I could read another book in this world :/ but I would love to think that Ryle got some help!
Im so happy i saw your video! I recently just read both books in a matter of 4 days (i was on vacation in my familys cabin)And after reading those 2 books, i did not bring them back with me cuz i did not want to read tham again. And i needed someone to talk to about all this!! I 100% agree with you from begging to end! 100% ! I was also fooled and did not expect these 2 books to be so crazy! But i feel like
I need a third book just because i felt the second book was to repetitive from the first one and we missed so much stuff that could have been thrown in there. I want to see Ryle find happiness too, even with all his issues.
🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼
I went into "It Ends With Us" completely blind also. I liked that one the most of the 4 I have read so far ("It Ends With Us", "Ugly Love", "Verity" and "It Starts With Us"). "It Starts With Us" was a bit lackluster for me unfortunately. It didn't have the same impact and was just lackluster. It just was not necessary. I would have liked to have Lily get the last POV but oh well. Just felt meh. I also would have liked to learn if Ryle turned himself around and improved with anger management. The ending was rushed too.
thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for this video. i just finished the book and just sat there trying to find the words to process this book that i really enjoyed. i 100% agree with you about how hyped the book got compared to the trauma i went through reading it the first time close minded. you took all my thoughts and put them out there when i didn’t know how 🤣
happy to be of service 🫡
I just completed this book and my fiest thought before starting it was 'do i want to read this book? Should it exist?' I think it's better to leave some books alone. I felt there should be one or two chapters from Ryle's side. Theo is like to introduce comedy in the story. There should be more of that table discussion with Ryle. I know the story is to make Lily strong but it would be more helpful to have that discussion. I feel everything that you shared Nikki.
I agree with your thoughts before reading the book. I was really on the fence on if I wanted to read it or not. I just finished - but I absolutely loved it! So much. I wasn’t expecting it but I feel like my heart is full. I also agree with that you like to know as little as possible when starting a book. I always look for your recommendations then don’t listen to summaries until after I read the book. I want to know as little as possible but still want good book recommendations. ❤ I totally hear you out for your feelings after. I personally am glad she didn’t wrap the Ryle stuff up in a pretty little bow because for me this felt so much more realistic. I really loved both books and was truly expecting not to. Heart. ❤ Love hearing varying reading experiences! Thanks for sharing!
Omg finally someone’s said what I was thinking. it ends with us made me fall in love with Ryle. And Yes that took a complete turn and he turned out to be really shitty, but Lily and Atlas… I just wasn’t invested with them AT ALL. I found their age difference icky when they initially met.
The second book seems like a after thought and just written to appease Lily and Atlas fans.
Like you I’ll keep an open mind and read It starts with us.
180*
Honestly, I felt like the whole point of the reason leaving Ryle was so difficult in the first book was because he was a good man. He has ANGER issues due to TRAUMA. That was the whole shock at the end of the book. The second book makes him a narcissist asshole who never loved her. Horrible character development, it ruined the entire first book. The fight he had with Atlas made me wanna vomit cause I cringed so hard. So stupid. 2/5. (Pls don’t take this personally, it’s just my opinion lol)
I totally agree with you!!!
Atlas is the perfect man!
I TOTALLY 110% AGREE WITH YOU, AND WHEN I TALKED ABOUT "IT ENDS WITH US" WITH MY FRIENDS, THEY WERE LITERALLY LIKE "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, LIKE ITS A REALLY BUTTERFLY WORTHY BOOK" JUST TO BE CLEAR IT'S NOT, AND OMG I'M HAPPY THAT SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME 😭
I literally rushed through this book so I could watch this video and hear your spoilery thoughts once you announced it on your Bookstagram 🙈
thank you so much for not making me feel like a weirdo for being more invested in Ryle than Atlas even though I got into it ends with us thinking that am gonna hate Ryle and love Atlas and cause in the end i loved the journey of LILY BLOSSOM BLOOM!!! thank you so much for this review
you’re so welcome 🥹
I think the whole reason there wasn’t a further conversation with Ryle about what Lily needed from his is because it isn’t in Ryles character to sit down and listen it was quick and fast because that’s all his temperament allowed for.
When you started out talking about how everyone knows what This Ends With Us is about…I thought this is why I don’t look at book reviews and I really lucked out. When I read it two months ago, I knew it was popular but I knew almost nothing about it. It was the best reading experience I have had in awhile, and while I can’t say that I saw it coming with Ryle, I can say that I was definitely intrigued by Atlas’s character. First loves are intense and I wanted to know more. I was not thrilled by It Starts With Us; I would like Colleen Hoover to write a book about Atlas’s lost years or a prequel.
As far as the intervention and trying to help Ryle understand that he’s got problems-he knows! He just doesn’t care. People like this operate on principles of power and control-which they take from others. They don’t care about others needs or rights
Everything you said is exactly how I felt. :-) I read IEWU back in 12/21 without any knowledge of what it was about and I loved it, but was never wanting Lily to end up with Atlas in that book..just wanted her to be safe and happy. I fell in love with Ryle within the first book way more than I could have ever "swooned" for Atlas in the 2nd book. I was so sad that Ryle/Lily ended up breaking up, although I knew it was for the best.
I was not really excited about the 2nd book AT ALL! It took me over a week to even open it. I finished ISWU in one sitting and was kind of...meh, this was really unnecessary.. so much redundancy and blah blah blah-Atlas is the most wonderful human being on the face of the earth. :/ It was eye rolll - after eye roll. I was not really pushing for Atlas and Lily as much as I was for Ryle and Lily in the first one. The second book made Ryle such a villain and so much worse than he really needed to be. How about try to help him through his anger and not just keep pushing onto the reader how bad he was. He has a child, so put him somewhere that he can be better. Maybe he starts going to therapy or parenting classes or even says he is sorry that they did not work out but is going to be a great dad to Emerson...not just make him even more awful.. thumbs down.
YES!!! I'm late to the party, but here I am after finishing reading it last night. I honestly pre-ordered it when the news came out, because of the hype, but when it arrived on my kindle in october I just put it off because with time I started to think it was not necessary. I decided to read it just lately. The problem with me is I do not like fanservice - the same in tv show when they bring back shows ended ages ago just because the fans are missing the characters end they end up ruining completely the show. This book is that, Colleen wrote it because fans asked her that. Too much. And you can see she wasn't sure about this, because in the book there are too many copy-paste from IEWU parts.
I do feel the same like you about IEWU and the hype that is around it now, when I read people saying "ugh I hate Ryle, I want her to be with Atlas" I'm like, "no you don't hate him, can't hate him, you hate him because you know what will happen" because Ryle is so likable and charming and amazing in the beginning and then he broke all our hearts and Atlas was always in the back. Hell! When I was reading it - before knowing what would happen - people were saying that they wanted Lily to be with Atlas and not Ryle and I was like "how??? why??? we don't even see Atlas how can you want them together just based on the journal???". I was a convinced Ryle fan and I would have fought everyone on a duel abou that. ISWU is sad because he doesn't have a character development, he's just the same asshole he was, and it honestly broke my heart when the scene of the door happened. I would have loved to see his improvments, the only thing we see of him is at the drop off but is like in the background. I still liked the non-toxic part in ISWS, the parts where Atlas and Lily were falling back in love, and of course I coudn't stop smiling during those parts, because they were cute and yes, they both deserved this ending - but it was already clear in the ending of IEWS. But was it necessary? No.
When talking about Lily having to coparent with the man the abuser her you pointed out that this is something that could happen in real life. Well I just wanted to say that this is something that happened in my life. I was very much harassed and stalked when I started dating again. Colleen did do a good job of showing what is life post separation from an abusive/narcissistic ex. But I think that could have been done better. Overall it was just okay, I didn’t think there was enough drama or tense for a post separation love story I guess.
Bro I so freaking agree with your It ends with us's review ... I don't think I'll read this
I 100% agree with you on both books! I went into IEWU blind, also fell in love with Ryle, and I was shocked when that relationship took a dark turn. I thought the book ended perfectly, and I really didn't want a second book. And, I was right. ISWU had its cute moments, but overall, I felt like it was an extended epilogue with no plot.
🥲
Which one should I read first it starts with us or it ends with us...
My friend gave me this book to read. I decided not to search anything about it not even read the back of it!! I felt anger, I felt sadness, I cried and laughed. I’m sooo glad I didn’t search anything which would result im tampering with my POV of this book.
I havent read it but Preaach 👍🏽 same thoughts
Haha thank you 👏🏼
I actually read It Ends With Us for the first time this week. It was my first Hoover book. I truly went in not knowing it was going to take a turn to DA. I wish it had trigger warnings because I probably wouldn't have chosen to read it.
I will say from the beginning I did not like Ryle. He didnt respect any of her boundaries from even before he put a hand on her. And Lily romanticized his action during the beginning. That's where the problem lies for me.
I have just read these two and made a video about it as well. I would like to get your input on the "romance" bc i def dont think this should be called romance. And i def agreed with every point you mentioned its kinda crazy haha
I do feel like the storyline was rushed a little bit. I really wish she had added a 10 years from now or something. And ok I hated atlas’s vows lol
LOL I hated the vows too omg I’m so thankful I’m not alone 😩
yeah, i didn’t want this book in the first place because reading about the last straw was extremely disturbing and seeing lily break the cycle, ryle showing hints that he’s gonna get the help he needs for emerson, and lily trying things out with atlas was enough.
and like you said, i wish there was more character development in Ryle, Lily and Atlas bonding (not trauma-bonding) without being scared of Ryle and no more abuse.
but the biggest issue is it’s romanticised and labelled as ‘romance’.
I m really happy to see your video and thank you for the super honest review video now i m really feel what you say ☺️
It was a good book but nothing compared to it ends with us 💖
Your honesty forces me to give u thousands of likes
I liked this even though i havent read these books but listeneing to u i kinda felt it love uu❤
gonna be honest i haven’t read It ends with us so i had no idea it was about da. I have no idea how i avoided spoilers this long 😅
I’m #TeamAtlas from the very begining and I loved the second book! ❤
I’m back! Loved loved “It’s Starts With Us” it was exactly what the follow up needed to be because “It Ends with Us” that book messed me up! No lie like it was a cute cry! No I sobbed I had to wake my husband up for comfort because I was sobbing a week later spoke to my therapist about the book because of how it emotionally affected me no joke! So this was a breath of fresh air! Light and sappy I cried because of how beautiful and happy they were. And I really wanted them to be happy and they got that. Best I ever read no. Did I really enjoy it and completely devour it within 3 days yes
I’m glad you enjoyed it! 💗
I thought this book was boring. I keep wishing for more
If i wanted to read just "it's ends with us" do i have to read "it's starts with us" at first?
No. It Ends With Us is the first book!
I hated this book! I like that Lily and Atlas had their happy ending. I enjoyed the relationship between Atlas & Theo but it was just ok. I anticipated so much and I was waiting for something to happen and nothing ever did. It was just boring for me
I think it would be nice to see more change with Ryle but I think colleen was being realistic on how people in real life in like Ryle are really like.
After thinking on it for a few days, I think you’re totally right!
I really liked the ending of it ends with us when emerson is born and lily tells ryle why they should part away, and when she meets atlas at the end and we get to know that emerson is spending time with both of her parents.
But I didn't like it starts with us that much
I wanted to see more of ryle, his character development.... And his ending should also have been happy where he has equal rights on emerson as lily has, lily should definitely end up with atlas but her bond with ryle should have been much neutral in which they still share naked truths.
I am also a die hard fan of the chemistry of Ryle and Lily .But things are not goes in that way I was expecting for both of them.Every single page involve Atlas presence in Lily s life burnt my heart.
And I really hate that
I just mad in love with R🥀L.
But at the end,this novel completely
Broke me up into pieces.And destroy me
from inside.I will never read "it's start with us."Also "it's end with us "never again .what ever is there
This heart is always with the star surgeons sweetheart Lily💔💔💔💔
I loved this book because it made me feel so much! Not many books can do it. Is the story wrong? Yes, but loved all the emotions it made me experience. This was actually the first book I've ever pre-ordered, but with all the emotions I went through, I wanted a HEA, and I felt it wasn't over. After a few months, I saw that "It Ends with Us" was written many years ago, and that's where I agree with you that she never planned on writing the second book. (I didn't see her update asking what the readers wanted.) So I totally get if this was mainly done as a cash-in opportunity. (Good for her.) Thennnn it came in the mail day of... and I was frustrated that "It Ends with Us" has a matte cover and "It Starts with Us" is glossy. So both books are different on the cover, which I know is minimum, but I don't know if it made it feel like this new book is more of an afterthought or a rush to get it out the door as quickly as possible to profit from. (I haven't read it yet since this kinda grinds my gears a bit, so I skipped the spoilers section. lol)
Haha ugh yes! Hate the two different covers. Come back once you finish and give me your thoughts! 💗
“Riled up” 😂😂
😅😅😅
I would've liked if this books was released in her blog or something (shorter version). So ppl who want to see HEA can read thrm if they want.
Hello I want to buy one of colleen hoover's books as a gift either it ends with us or it starts with us which one do you guys prefer to get?
It Ends With Us needs to be read first, so I’d say that one!
You know why Ryle didn't have development? Because he's a filler character. Atlas has no personality, so making Ryle the devil makes it easier to make Atlas look good.
I was really hoping that there would be some character development for Ryle but, lol, i got nothing. Ryle was reduced to that abusive, jealous husband in which everybody hates. We all know that Ryle was madly in love with Lily, they were both in love with each other.
(I think I would have prefer if the book said something about all of the three chatacters being fucked up and then they all go to therapy) but no, It starts with us was just a book published for Lily and Atlas fans. I really expected more.
Ugh same
I feel like I’m the only person who didn’t fall in love with Ryle in the beginning😂 so i wasn’t torn when the domestic abuse happened
Its crazy how half of the bookstagram hates every single book from coho now... (I mean i hate her too-)😊
To me the book is like an advocate for domestic violence, letting you know to be on the look out
Yes! I think it’s a super eye opening book in that regard
For me, everything besides the Josh plot felt like fanfic. I don’t think this book needed to be written. While I still enjoyed the read, it wasn’t as impactful as the first book.
I was waiting for this 💯🔥❤️😍.
I thought both books were amazing
I hear what your saying, however, like you I had no idea what the book was about back when I picked it up….. and I honestly saw it coming. Just based on her childhood she was inevitably going to fall for someone abusive. I went into it thinking the book was going to be about social issues, racism or sexism, lgbt issues or some kind of social injustice because of the title. I actually hated this book, hate the main characters, sends a terrible message. This wasn’t a poor disadvantaged woman who literally couldn’t escape her abuser, she had money and resources at her disposal and chose to stay and even protect her abuser and show him compassion he didn’t deserve. I just could not get behind it. I’ve had many rants with people about how they could love this book🤣 won’t be reading the sequel! Thanks for sharing.
Exactly I mean ryle’s character development was ONE thing I was soooooo looking forward to cause his words were promising and he did seem like he would change and be better even if little by little but nope. He just became this complete asshole for whom I no longer hold any empathy or concern because neither does he. I thought he would be portrayed as a mature person, ofc his struggle and trauma are valid but he himself ruined his perfect marriage and not taking any responsibility after burning it down like a child was just not it. As much as we all love Atlas for being the standard and- as he rightfully should be. He IS the standard.
BUT…Ryle and Atlas being such contrasting characters just made it a little less believable if that makes sense ? Cause one second you see Atlas being the mature, understanding person and making the right decisions…you see Ryle being so unreasonable talking with consideration to his convenience and his only regardless of who he hurts. There really should have been more improvement from his side which ofc we get to see in the last chapter but that’s a very very tiny glimpse of it which wasn’t satisfactory enough considering the amount of damage he’s also done in the very book. It also felt odd how Lily and Atlas NEVER messed up…like ? They’re human and you always ALWAYS make mistakes- big or small ( being specific to relationships ) but these two go together like puzzle pieces without any effort, which is a great thing sure, but it’s either me who’s used to people messing up or it’s actually valid cause I’m not even talking about a happy ending that felt weird, they deserved that 500% but what about small tiny slip ups along the way ?
Other than that the new add on Josh was really wholesome, I liked it, in terms of experiencing more into atlas’s life
I like this book still simply because of the attachment I have with Lily’s character and how much I adore her, I had always hoped for Ryle’s redemption but nvm…as for Atlas, we all knew he’s endgame cause he’s the perfect human basically
But there were still some gaps that are unfilled and a part of me still isn’t satisfied
I’m glad I haven’t read any of these 2 books and never planning to read it
Finally someone.
🫡
I have not read it starts with us but I have read it ends with us and that book broke my soul n I been debating on reading this one bc it starts with us I went into that book blind n it was one of my favorite reads and when I heard it starts with us was coming out I was like ima watch reviews first to see if it's worth buying n at this point I'm not sure if im goin to read this book yet but I agree with everything u said like I thought we were gonna get the big gap back story on atles n as far as the Ellen letters I wasn't a fan of thoes
Ugh yep there’s plenty of Ellen in this one as well 😅
@@nikkisbooknook lol oh God lol like I agree with everything u said in this video n it should have been the gap were atles and lily were apart like wish we got that story instead of a copy n paste like it ends with us broke my soul like that book had mi in tears while reading like that book had mi an emotional reck for a week
Wait sorry to comment again but I GOT IT!! It’s Harry Potter and the Cursed Child!! Is it necessary to the story? absolutely not. Is fan made fun YES! So with that the book is good and unnecessary 😂😂 k bye
Can someone interpret "it is my wish for you to be my fish" quote... It will be helpful to me!
It really doesn’t mean anything. Just saying he wants her to be his. It was just supposed to be a silly play on words because of the “just keep swimming” line from the first book.
@@nikkisbooknook oh ohk thank you so much!!
I don't know if I want to read this book because I didn't love the first book 🤔
I had the exact same feelings 🥲
Does anyone else wish the big yellow circle on the front cover was a sticker 🫣😆 - it's so distracting !!
I hate it with everything in me 😤
coho books getting dissapointing day by day
:/
Ryle in ' it ends with us ' feels like a human being ,a broken human being .But in ' it starts with us ' coho made him like a monster i know he was not the best character but it was so unnecessary.
I totally agree!
If it ended with them, so it ended. Fresh start? Oh no thanks
LOL yes
This will be a hard pass for me. I haven’t read the first because of the subject matter. Your review was super helpful!
🫡🫡🫡
CoHo books aren’t for me tbh. I feel like they just don’t make sense 🤦🏻♀️