Thank you so much for this. My situation is so sticky. I'm a 45 yr old woman (I refer to myself as a they-woman) and while I had glimpses of my sexuality at least 25 years ago, I've never been fully "out" and I've never been in a relationship with a woman. I'm a physically disabled person living far below the poverty line, and in a relationship with a straight cis-man. I've realised our values are vastly different, and it's definitely not a good relationship, but I feel very stuck for financial/logistical reasons. I know they say money can't buy happiness, but I feel like financial freedom would allow me to have my independence and fully embrace and explore my queerness and open myself up to an actually safe and loving relationship.
I’m so sorry to hear that. You are fully deserving of a financially stable life. Money can absolutely but stability. We live in a capitalist society where money is an essential part of survival and meeting basic needs. Without that met we cannot expand to become our fullest selves so yes money does buy you some degree of happiness
Oh hell yeah! I'd love to see some elders breaking out. I'd imagine it's incredibly complicated when your social circles and relationships have that much time to develop. Plus, I bet a lot of us have potentially queer elders who've never had the safety and space to self actualize
The intoxicating power of getting into a relationship where you both thought it might never happen leading to problems later is a real issue. My partner and I were in retrospect BOTH demisexual AND neurodivergent when we met, neither of us ever having had a functional relationship into our 20s. That led to an intensity and desperation of connection that did not help either of us long term but which we both could never quit. We are both doing a lot of therapy years later to try and figure things out.
I’m glad you’re both in therapy and have at least realized what need to happen so you are very much on your way to figuring it out. Sending love and strength 💕
THE BEST episode❤ 50 year old openly bi, non-binary person, who has been het married twice and only experienced their sexuality and identity minimized and overlooked. Realizing that my traumatized witch-wound is OVER.. and I am done with all men within this patriarchy.
Yeah, 6:06 is so real. We so often frame a bisexual person engaged in a relationship with a person of a different gender as 'straight' that I think it's really more of a self-fulfilling prophecy at that point. Your bi-ness doesn't just up and evaporate when you're no longer dating someone of the same gender. The relationship is *bisexual*, not *straight*.
It's so nice to see another polyamorous bisexual with two partners of different genders talking about their experience. I relate to so much that was said, from being attracted to 'essence' to queering other relationships. Thank you for this!
This is amazing. One hundred percent I relate. I always sort of knew I was bisexual. Now I am a leaning towards being gay and lost my attraction to men but I don’t want to think I am a late bloomer. We are all on the journey at our own pace. We have so much to come up against.
Loveee this discussion with the intersections of bisexual+ people! I think this is something that was missing from the pandemic-era comphet/masterdoc discourse (When multiple people online & a few actual friends tried to convince me, an out bi/pan sapphic, that I was a closeted lesbian)
I think unfortunately a lot of people tend to think that bisexuality is a stepping stone to being gay or lesbian but it is absolutely an identity on its own and is more than enough! You are queer enough 💕
At age 53, I think I'm realizing that the reason for 3 unhappy marriages is because I'm gay. I've never had a relationship with a woman, and i always thought i was just bi, but the more I look within, the more I think it's because I am actually queer. It's a disorienting feeling, thinking ive been a fraud either way my entire life. If I'm gay, why did I waste 30 years, married to men? If I'm gay, why did I waste 53 years of my own life? I feel like an imposter, and so alone.
13:19 i never thought of being bisexual until i started developing feelings for an old high school friend i used to talk to (never confessed to about my feelings to her either 😅) back in college. im also a late bloomer but for a long time, even after going through my early 20s hooking up with guys and dating girls, after kinda coming out as bisexual to close friends and loved ones…i always felt like i wasn’t queer enough despite the signs that were shown prior to my self discovery. middle school, high school- but the “boy crazy”, trying to keep the performance of heteronormativity i went through due to being a sheltered teen, still subconsciously affects me in my adult years because i’m still scared of showing off my queerness to the world 🥲
37:00 This just healed some stuff in me. I tied so much of my identity to my first few queer relationships. Now I see why that was damagibg, and why having queer friends first and foremost is probably the way to go from now on till I work on myself a bit 😅
Thank you for this podcast!! I've been binging the episodes and it has been so affirming as a bi/pan nb to have this representation and queer voices being sensitive to biphobia, thank you Emily for making me feel so seen. I feel like i consume so much queer media bc of my tiktok algorithm and 99% of the time when something is being said about bi people its biphobic or on the fringes. I feel like the connotations associated with bi people arent associated with the pan label for whatever reason and I have found myself using it because of that, which makes me sad because I've had to work through so much of my own biphobia it feels regressive. Looking forward to catching up with all of the releases of this show!
recently came out as queer. I've been worried about my age like im 28 never been in a relationship straight or otherwise, Ive never done enything not even a first kiss So i guess my biggest fear has been If i tell people that I've never done anything and that ill get rejected by so many, because no one wants to be a first to someone my age.😰 Like i feel like a walking 🚩
Omg no not at all!! Being someone’s first queer experience is such a beautiful moment and opportunity to expand someone’s mind I know so many people that would be honoured to be the one to introduce a baby queer into the community and culture. You are absolutely NOT a red flag! Just be honest and the right person(s) will come into your life I have no doubts
Honsely I am in the same boat, 28, came out as Trans and Lesbian 6 months ago. Never had a relationship or even kissed someone. But I have started talking to someone online, we are due to meet in person in September
I have never had a relationship with a women but I have definately had attractions to non-male people. But since these were not primarily sexual attractions, I convinced myself that I wasn't bi. I didn't really start investigating my sexuality until I was able to indentify myself as non-binary. This didn't happen until I was 49.
Thanks so much for this podcast! I really enjoyed this episode. I was shocked when I learned about this but according to recent studies the health outcomes of bisexual people compared to other sexualities is worse both physically and mentally compared to all other sexualities. I think there is an illusory perception that bi people inherently have privilege- and while bi people in hetero presenting relationships may/can have some privilege specifically from being perceived as straight, that is one small factor in a much larger web of what someone may face/experience as a bisexual.
@@QueerCollective For some reason it seems my replies are not working on my primary account, perhaps because I was including a link. The study I am referencing is titled “Bisexual People Experience Worse Health Outcomes in England: Evidence from a Cross-Sectional Survey in Primary Care”. The Human Rights Campaign also has helpful information about health disparities among bisexual people, and make the important distinction that bi people often also share other marginalized identities (such as being a person of color or a trans person) which may compound experiences of discrimination and therefore poorer health outcomes.
What a great episode! You all brought so many fascinating viewpoints and ideas to the table! Touched on a lot of things I experience as a 23yo pansexual queer. Thank you xx
I would love to hear this conversation with disabled/ neurodivergent/chronically ill/Deaf people. There where quite a few things that I couldn't relate to and things that were missing and I realised I still had to "translate" a lot to my experience and I don't know is because I m not from the USA or because I m disabled and neurodivergent
I’m not a fan of the term “late bloomer” because in a sense, as someone on the A-spectrum (asexual aromantic), I will always fit into the idea of a “late bloomer” because I will never bloom. I’ll never fully know how I’m attracted to people because I hardly feel attraction. And the term feels tied to puberty, suggesting I’m not fully grown yet… and I’ve been treated younger by people my own age all of my growing up. It’s not fun. And I’m never going to talk down to myself like that. Just my thoughts, obviously influenced by my personal experiences. I think if someone wants to think of themself that way, it can be fun and make light of the regret of not having known sooner. But saying it about other people can feel infantilizing for sure, like as a group name it’s fine, but not as a way to label someone else.
I feel like if a straight person was told they couldn't date or hookup with anyone for a good majority of their life, they too would fall deeply, vulnerably in love with the first person they connected with
Interesting. I personally don’t think that’s the case all the time. I for one did not fall madly in love with the first person I connected with and my sexuality was very suppressed growing up. However, I do think it might have some merit in some cases
I think it’s OK for lesbians to have the sentiment that bisexual women most of the time end up with women because it can be true in your community and what you see. When I identified as bisexual, I only dated men. When I came out as lesbian, even though I find a few men, attractive, my whole whole mindset changed. I saw myself with a woman, getting married, having kids, growing old, doing life together. When I was bisexual, I did not have to do that work because I only looked at it as sexual experiences, other than a lifetime of love and romance.
15:38 This is sort of real for my personal experience? Im trans masc and lesbian, so I'd more be like "man, wish that were me instead" 😅 This makes me laugh, cause when you said that I forgot all about that. Oofles!
I’ve known since I was 6(I had a crush on my neighbor). I am Texan and grew up very “queer is wrong and sinful you’ll go to hell”… I did the married thing and didn’t start living my truth until 34… I’ve never been happier
i’m ngl i felt a little uncomfortable when yall were talking about fem4fem not have any representation or it’s not common in the lesbian community. In reality that is the majority of sapphic and lesbian couples. Especially in older generations since it wasn’t exactly that safe to be masculine or gender non conforming in the past as it is now. the reason masc/fem couples can appear more common is because of how visibly gay we look. honestly we make a lot of people uncomfortable, even those within our own community sometimes. I cannot name a single show where there are butch femme couples or masc femme couples besides A League of Their Own. It is more palatable to society to imagine to feminine lesbians together because they can pretend it’s not real or sexualize it. also masculine and gender non conforming lesbians are a minority within a minority. It doesn’t really make sense to say that sapphic couples are mostly masc/fem when statistically it’s not possible for that to be the majority. Again we are just more visible. people immediately see a masculine lesbian and they know what we are lol or they assume. Even if i am with a more feminine friend 1 on 1 people still assume we are a couple cause of me. I think the problem is that society is not likely to view two feminine women together and think they are a couple at all. Not saying it’s your fault, but this is definitely something that can be internalized and it seems like that statement came from that internalized point of view. Two fem women can literally hold hands and kiss and some people would still think they are friends 😭. Which sucks, but it’s the truth of the world we live in. That may be why it is hard for a lot of feminine lesbians who are interested in other feminine women to know what dynamic to hold. It’s tough, but no two lesbians are the same and it’s all up to the individuals in relationships to discuss their boundaries and preferences in a relationship dynamic. Sorry i just had to express this, i’m a nonbinary butch in a relationship with a femme and i actually wish i met more lesbian couples like my gf and i.
Thank you for sharing 💕 all experiences are valid and perhaps you see certain dynamics more than we do where we’re located. At this point, with being a queer organization and being embedded into the community we’ve seen almost everyone that’s a part of our community and we’re just stating our own personal experiences but you’re right, that’s not how it is everywhere so I appreciate your comment
Thank you so much for this. My situation is so sticky. I'm a 45 yr old woman (I refer to myself as a they-woman) and while I had glimpses of my sexuality at least 25 years ago, I've never been fully "out" and I've never been in a relationship with a woman. I'm a physically disabled person living far below the poverty line, and in a relationship with a straight cis-man. I've realised our values are vastly different, and it's definitely not a good relationship, but I feel very stuck for financial/logistical reasons. I know they say money can't buy happiness, but I feel like financial freedom would allow me to have my independence and fully embrace and explore my queerness and open myself up to an actually safe and loving relationship.
I’m so sorry to hear that. You are fully deserving of a financially stable life. Money can absolutely but stability. We live in a capitalist society where money is an essential part of survival and meeting basic needs. Without that met we cannot expand to become our fullest selves so yes money does buy you some degree of happiness
I’d love chapters or timestamps for different topics!!
Will do moving forward!
@@QueerCollective thank u !!!
Need a part 2 where they talk about late blooming rurally, and something about coming out as a senior
Oooouuuuu new topic idea. Love it
I was 59 and had two grown kids before I figured out I was a lesbian. This would be a great topic!
Oh hell yeah! I'd love to see some elders breaking out. I'd imagine it's incredibly complicated when your social circles and relationships have that much time to develop.
Plus, I bet a lot of us have potentially queer elders who've never had the safety and space to self actualize
@@QueerCollectiveYes please! Both rural and 40 to 50 years and older.
Yes to part 2.
Coming out at 53 feels ... Monumental and almost futile. My small town isn't very queer friendly.
The intoxicating power of getting into a relationship where you both thought it might never happen leading to problems later is a real issue.
My partner and I were in retrospect BOTH demisexual AND neurodivergent when we met, neither of us ever having had a functional relationship into our 20s. That led to an intensity and desperation of connection that did not help either of us long term but which we both could never quit. We are both doing a lot of therapy years later to try and figure things out.
I’m glad you’re both in therapy and have at least realized what need to happen so you are very much on your way to figuring it out. Sending love and strength 💕
THE BEST episode❤ 50 year old openly bi, non-binary person, who has been het married twice and only experienced their sexuality and identity minimized and overlooked. Realizing that my traumatized witch-wound is OVER.. and I am done with all men within this patriarchy.
Yeah, 6:06 is so real. We so often frame a bisexual person engaged in a relationship with a person of a different gender as 'straight' that I think it's really more of a self-fulfilling prophecy at that point. Your bi-ness doesn't just up and evaporate when you're no longer dating someone of the same gender. The relationship is *bisexual*, not *straight*.
Very true
It's so nice to see another polyamorous bisexual with two partners of different genders talking about their experience. I relate to so much that was said, from being attracted to 'essence' to queering other relationships. Thank you for this!
@@Indigopopify so so glad to hear that💗 thanks for listening 🫶
This is amazing. One hundred percent I relate. I always sort of knew I was bisexual. Now I am a leaning towards being gay and lost my attraction to men but I don’t want to think I am a late bloomer. We are all on the journey at our own pace. We have so much to come up against.
A beautiful take ✨
Loveee this discussion with the intersections of bisexual+ people! I think this is something that was missing from the pandemic-era comphet/masterdoc discourse (When multiple people online & a few actual friends tried to convince me, an out bi/pan sapphic, that I was a closeted lesbian)
I think unfortunately a lot of people tend to think that bisexuality is a stepping stone to being gay or lesbian but it is absolutely an identity on its own and is more than enough! You are queer enough 💕
At age 53, I think I'm realizing that the reason for 3 unhappy marriages is because I'm gay. I've never had a relationship with a woman, and i always thought i was just bi, but the more I look within, the more I think it's because I am actually queer. It's a disorienting feeling, thinking ive been a fraud either way my entire life. If I'm gay, why did I waste 30 years, married to men? If I'm gay, why did I waste 53 years of my own life? I feel like an imposter, and so alone.
❤❤❤
You can’t go back only forward 🤍🩷❤️🧡
13:19 i never thought of being bisexual until i started developing feelings for an old high school friend i used to talk to (never confessed to about my feelings to her either 😅) back in college. im also a late bloomer but for a long time, even after going through my early 20s hooking up with guys and dating girls, after kinda coming out as bisexual to close friends and loved ones…i always felt like i wasn’t queer enough despite the signs that were shown prior to my self discovery. middle school, high school- but the “boy crazy”, trying to keep the performance of heteronormativity i went through due to being a sheltered teen, still subconsciously affects me in my adult years because i’m still scared of showing off my queerness to the world 🥲
@@cececece611 thanks for sharing 💗, hopefully this episode infused plenty of affirmations. You are absolutely queer enough
37:00 This just healed some stuff in me.
I tied so much of my identity to my first few queer relationships.
Now I see why that was damagibg, and why having queer friends first and foremost is probably the way to go from now on till I work on myself a bit 😅
Glad it could provide some healing ❤️🩹
Thank you for this podcast!! I've been binging the episodes and it has been so affirming as a bi/pan nb to have this representation and queer voices being sensitive to biphobia, thank you Emily for making me feel so seen.
I feel like i consume so much queer media bc of my tiktok algorithm and 99% of the time when something is being said about bi people its biphobic or on the fringes. I feel like the connotations associated with bi people arent associated with the pan label for whatever reason and I have found myself using it because of that, which makes me sad because I've had to work through so much of my own biphobia it feels regressive. Looking forward to catching up with all of the releases of this show!
@@snickeysnack5000 this made my day 💗 thank you so much for listening and for this lovely comment it means so much to us. Xo
recently came out as queer.
I've been worried about my age like im 28 never been in a relationship straight or otherwise, Ive never done enything not even a first kiss
So i guess my biggest fear has been
If i tell people that I've never done anything and that ill get rejected by so many, because no one wants to be a first to someone my age.😰
Like i feel like a walking 🚩
Omg no not at all!! Being someone’s first queer experience is such a beautiful moment and opportunity to expand someone’s mind I know so many people that would be honoured to be the one to introduce a baby queer into the community and culture. You are absolutely NOT a red flag! Just be honest and the right person(s) will come into your life I have no doubts
@@QueerCollective 🫶
Honsely I am in the same boat, 28, came out as Trans and Lesbian 6 months ago. Never had a relationship or even kissed someone. But I have started talking to someone online, we are due to meet in person in September
I have never had a relationship with a women but I have definately had attractions to non-male people. But since these were not primarily sexual attractions, I convinced myself that I wasn't bi. I didn't really start investigating my sexuality until I was able to indentify myself as non-binary. This didn't happen until I was 49.
@@omnichrome9784 thank you for listening & sharing 💗. Hope this episode spoke to you 🫶
Thanks so much for this podcast! I really enjoyed this episode. I was shocked when I learned about this but according to recent studies the health outcomes of bisexual people compared to other sexualities is worse both physically and mentally compared to all other sexualities. I think there is an illusory perception that bi people inherently have privilege- and while bi people in hetero presenting relationships may/can have some privilege specifically from being perceived as straight, that is one small factor in a much larger web of what someone may face/experience as a bisexual.
So interesting! Do you happen to have a link to the studies? Thank you for sharing
@@QueerCollective For some reason it seems my replies are not working on my primary account, perhaps because I was including a link. The study I am referencing is titled “Bisexual People Experience Worse Health Outcomes in England: Evidence from a Cross-Sectional Survey in Primary Care”.
The Human Rights Campaign also has helpful information about health disparities among bisexual people, and make the important distinction that bi people often also share other marginalized identities (such as being a person of color or a trans person) which may compound experiences of discrimination and therefore poorer health outcomes.
Thank you I will look them up!
Would love a topic on agender individuals, or the experience of autism and gender/ sexuality
Great topic suggestion
❤ yes, definitely would love this.❤
I'm a fan of Ralph so it's so cool to hear her story about discovering her sexuality. 😄
They were so great to have on!
What a great episode! You all brought so many fascinating viewpoints and ideas to the table! Touched on a lot of things I experience as a 23yo pansexual queer. Thank you xx
Glad you liked the episode! Thank you for watching 💕
Omg the porn thing! I also would only look at the girl and told myself it’s cuz I was pretending I was her. 😂
I would love to hear this conversation with disabled/ neurodivergent/chronically ill/Deaf people.
There where quite a few things that I couldn't relate to and things that were missing and I realised I still had to "translate" a lot to my experience and I don't know is because I m not from the USA or because I m disabled and neurodivergent
Such a good point. That’s definitely a topic(s) that’s in the books
Ditto to this as a fellow neurodivergent non-American😅
I’m not a fan of the term “late bloomer” because in a sense, as someone on the A-spectrum (asexual aromantic), I will always fit into the idea of a “late bloomer” because I will never bloom. I’ll never fully know how I’m attracted to people because I hardly feel attraction. And the term feels tied to puberty, suggesting I’m not fully grown yet… and I’ve been treated younger by people my own age all of my growing up. It’s not fun. And I’m never going to talk down to myself like that. Just my thoughts, obviously influenced by my personal experiences. I think if someone wants to think of themself that way, it can be fun and make light of the regret of not having known sooner. But saying it about other people can feel infantilizing for sure, like as a group name it’s fine, but not as a way to label someone else.
Ty for sharing, I hadn't put much thought on how ace weathering would happen & I appreciate you putting it on my radar ♥️
I feel like if a straight person was told they couldn't date or hookup with anyone for a good majority of their life, they too would fall deeply, vulnerably in love with the first person they connected with
Interesting. I personally don’t think that’s the case all the time. I for one did not fall madly in love with the first person I connected with and my sexuality was very suppressed growing up. However, I do think it might have some merit in some cases
🎉🎉🎉🎉 Happy Pride Month 🌈 😊
Happy pride 🥰
15:54 Oh no, I feel called out by was Eva said here 😂😂
Eva says it like it is 😂
I think it’s OK for lesbians to have the sentiment that bisexual women most of the time end up with women because it can be true in your community and what you see. When I identified as bisexual, I only dated men. When I came out as lesbian, even though I find a few men, attractive, my whole whole mindset changed. I saw myself with a woman, getting married, having kids, growing old, doing life together. When I was bisexual, I did not have to do that work because I only looked at it as sexual experiences, other than a lifetime of love and romance.
15:38 This is sort of real for my personal experience?
Im trans masc and lesbian, so I'd more be like "man, wish that were me instead" 😅
This makes me laugh, cause when you said that I forgot all about that. Oofles!
Great episode!
Thank you! 💕
12:05 swoon
I’ve known since I was 6(I had a crush on my neighbor). I am Texan and grew up very “queer is wrong and sinful you’ll go to hell”… I did the married thing and didn’t start living my truth until 34… I’ve never been happier
I’m so glad you could find yourself and find happiness!!! It’s truly never too late to live your truth 💕
i love u guys :3
We love you back ☺️
i’m ngl i felt a little uncomfortable when yall were talking about fem4fem not have any representation or it’s not common in the lesbian community. In reality that is the majority of sapphic and lesbian couples. Especially in older generations since it wasn’t exactly that safe to be masculine or gender non conforming in the past as it is now. the reason masc/fem couples can appear more common is because of how visibly gay we look. honestly we make a lot of people uncomfortable, even those within our own community sometimes. I cannot name a single show where there are butch femme couples or masc femme couples besides A League of Their Own. It is more palatable to society to imagine to feminine lesbians together because they can pretend it’s not real or sexualize it. also masculine and gender non conforming lesbians are a minority within a minority. It doesn’t really make sense to say that sapphic couples are mostly masc/fem when statistically it’s not possible for that to be the majority. Again we are just more visible. people immediately see a masculine lesbian and they know what we are lol or they assume. Even if i am with a more feminine friend 1 on 1 people still assume we are a couple cause of me.
I think the problem is that society is not likely to view two feminine women together and think they are a couple at all. Not saying it’s your fault, but this is definitely something that can be internalized and it seems like that statement came from that internalized point of view. Two fem women can literally hold hands and kiss and some people would still think they are friends 😭. Which sucks, but it’s the truth of the world we live in. That may be why it is hard for a lot of feminine lesbians who are interested in other feminine women to know what dynamic to hold. It’s tough, but no two lesbians are the same and it’s all up to the individuals in relationships to discuss their boundaries and preferences in a relationship dynamic.
Sorry i just had to express this, i’m a nonbinary butch in a relationship with a femme and i actually wish i met more lesbian couples like my gf and i.
Thank you for sharing 💕 all experiences are valid and perhaps you see certain dynamics more than we do where we’re located. At this point, with being a queer organization and being embedded into the community we’ve seen almost everyone that’s a part of our community and we’re just stating our own personal experiences but you’re right, that’s not how it is everywhere so I appreciate your comment
❤❤❤❤
💕💕
I have never had a good pride. Maybe once.
So sorry to hear that
Yes it does meen a women a lesbian angvwomen if she hooks up with women and as girlfriends and wife
100 % prefer not to be bi. I do not feel i belong anywhere.