00:00 🚪 Polyamory removes stigma around non-monogamy and sex, offering freedom and liberation. 02:22 🗣 Polyamorous relationships demand extensive communication, navigating insecurities and big emotions. 03:18 💔 Cons of polyamory include challenging scheduling, emotional exhaustion, and considering multiple people's feelings. 04:45 ⚖ Polyamory can be intense; when bad, it's really bad, impacting free time and facing societal stigma. 06:39 💬 Despite challenges, the benefits of polyamory include developing communication skills, self-knowledge, and experiencing adventure and variety. 09:03 ⏰ Prioritizing intentional time strengthens relationships, fostering intimacy and communication. 10:58 🔄 Exploring kink alongside polyamory promotes acceptance of diverse desires and removes shame from sexual exploration. 14:18 🔍 In navigating differing relationship structures, it's crucial not to coerce partners into change, but to find mutual understanding and respect boundaries. 16:15 🔄 Understanding different relationship structures: Couples may approach opening up their relationship differently based on their history together and individual preferences. 17:43 💡 Reasons for opening up a relationship: Factors like physical distance, changes in needs, and mental health can prompt the consideration of alternative relationship structures. 18:39 🔄 Addressing past experiences: Previous emotional wounds can influence feelings about opening up, emphasizing the importance of open communication and understanding. 19:37 🔄 Relationship dynamics: Different relationship structures like open and polyamorous require clear communication, boundary setting, and mutual understanding to thrive. 20:59 🔄 Understanding relationship dynamics retrospectively: Reflecting on past experiences can shed light on relationship preferences and communication strategies. 21:58 💭 Overcoming scarcity mindset: Recognizing that fulfilling individual needs doesn't signify a lack in the existing relationship can ease fears and promote personal growth. 22:56 💞 Prioritizing partner happiness: Supporting partners' pursuit of joy and freedom fosters trust and emotional connection in relationships. 24:51 🔄 Boundary vs. Rule: Distinguishing between boundaries (self-imposed restrictions) and rules (imposed on others) promotes healthier communication and mutual respect. 26:19 📝 Relationship agreements: Establishing clear agreements, including boundaries and expectations, helps navigate complex relationship dynamics. 30:39 🔄 Building equity in relationships: Acknowledging and addressing disparities in emotional investment and time allocation fosters balance and mutual understanding. 33:00 💑 Love as an action: Love is demonstrated through actions and efforts to rebuild trust and intimacy, emphasizing the importance of ongoing commitment and communication. 33:30 💡 Love is in action, not just a feeling. Taking actions can reignite feelings of love in a relationship. 34:58 💬 Hierarchical polyamory can involve organic aspects like shared living and family, but it's crucial to consider whether it's based on genuine choice or default assumptions. 37:19 🤔 Questioning the motivation behind engaging in hierarchical polyamory is essential to ensure it's not driven by a desire for control or security. 38:46 ⚖ Veto power in hierarchical relationships can raise ethical concerns as it involves controlling someone else's relationships without consent. 40:15 🔄 Relationship anarchy encourages reevaluation of relationship norms and boundaries, focusing on equitable dynamics rather than strict hierarchies. 42:12 🔍 Explicit communication and mutual consent are vital in hierarchical relationships to avoid assumptions and ensure everyone's needs are considered. 46:03 📜 In ethical hierarchical relationships, all partners should have the space to express boundaries, needs, and desires without one partner exerting undue control. 49:27 🕵♂ "Sneaky Aki" refers to unexamined or undisclosed hierarchies in supposedly non-hierarchical relationships, highlighting the importance of transparent communication. 50:55 🔄 Acknowledge and actively address hierarchical tendencies in polyamorous relationships without judgment. 53:18 🌱 Approach entering existing polyamorous relationships with an open mind and understanding that the relationship existed before you and will continue after you. 55:15 💬 Maintain agency and boundaries when entering new polyamorous relationships, checking in with yourself and communicating openly about your needs. 57:07 🗣 Encourage open and honest communication in polyamorous relationships, avoiding fear of discussing feelings or concerns. 58:02 🔄 When navigating polyamorous dating, be upfront about your desires and boundaries to sift through potential matches effectively. 01:04:16 🛤 Frequenting the same places and engaging in hobbies can facilitate meeting potential partners in real life for polyamorous individuals. 01:06:37 🕵♀ Being upfront about your identity and desires early on in dating can help filter out incompatible matches, though it's essential to balance intensity to avoid scaring off potential matches. 01:08:04 🧪 Experimentation and learning in dating, polyamory, or queer relationships involve trying different types of intimacy and activities consensually, while allowing oneself to make mistakes and learn from them. 01:09:30 🕰 When a partner asks for more time, it's crucial to assess if the issue is genuine lack of time or lack of desire to spend time with them, and communicate transparently and compassionately about the situation. 01:11:24 💚 Navigating jealousy involves understanding the concept of "compersion," finding joy in your partner's happiness even if it doesn't directly involve you, and exploring the root causes and accompanying emotions of jealousy. 01:12:49 🧠 Viewing jealousy as an opportunityfor self-exploration rather than a negative emotion to be managed helps foster a healthier mindset, allowing individuals to delve deeper into their feelings and motivations. 01:17:10 🤝 Building security and trust in relationships is essential for experiencing compersion, with factors such as communication, understanding attachment styles, and gaining more information aiding in fostering feelings of security. 01:20:04 💞 Affirming partners' needs and feelings, such as through quality time, words of affirmation, or gifts, can help alleviate jealousy and strengthen emotional connections, provided both parties communicate openly and genuinely.
@@QueerCollective Indeed. I did enjoy it. There is so little about happiness, and so much about the ”correct” way of fitting in the slave machine. Keep up the good work!
This is my truth, and I 100% respect that it is not y'alls... More than half the time polyamory feels like a cancer in my relationship. It may just not be for me, but it seems like its for my partner. And I want my partner to live their fullest life, but also we committed to being life-long partners and poly does fuck with that. Part of me feels like all the work I'm doing around my jealousy is a kind of gaslighting, where I try to convince myself that all I need is to get that golden secure attachment and everything will be "back to normal." And frankly, there is just more I want to do with my life than agonize over whether or not I'm securely attached to the love of my life as they fall in love with other people, spending thousands of dollars on therapy and hundreds and hundreds of hours talking and processing. The sex is fun. The sex is amazing. And sex is so important. But even more important to me is living an erotically charged life where I can channel that erotic energy into my creativity, justice, community. And honestly polyamory is such a mind fuck that I am spending most of my time in never ending spirals with my loving partner. And all the relational navel gazing feels, to me, solipsistic, especially when I remember what's happening in gaza or that I might be on this planet for other reason than figuring out how to have romantic partnerships with multiple people. Finally, I'll say: it would be easier, I think, if I knew of more couples who have been poly for decades, but the vast majority of poly couples I meet haven't been. And I get that's because of the stigma, and older generations haven't been able to come out in the way ours has but it would be nice to have more elders. This is my truth. I know other people may feel differently, and I completely love and respect that.
Hi! Thank you so much for your comment and apologies for the delayed reply. Took us a second to let it soak in. For reference this is Emily replying (the host with the longer brown hair who was sharing feelings of preferring a more "open" dynamic over polyamory. Surprisingly enough, this is actually very close to how I was feeling at the time of recording this episode. I was doing my best to play things off positively but I definitely found myself getting triggered by a few of Yaz's answers throughout the conversation because I just wasn't ready to hear them. Especially their response around rules & what they said about not being able to change someone's preferred relationship style. Those were some hard pills for me to swallow. I also struggle with anxious attachment. At the time of recording this episode, Karbon let me know that she feels like a polyamorous person and cannot just be open or monogamous. and on top of that she admitted to me for the first time that she had developed strong feelings for the person she had been casually seeing. This was terrifying to me, a lot of fears and insecurities came up and Karbon wasn't responding to them in the way I felt I needed her to for me to feel affirmed and secure in our relationship. Since then we've worked a lot on our relationship and on ourselves. The work was and continues to be really emotionally exhausting. If I'm being honest, the two of us are feeling quite burnt out from it all. We're trying to be gentle with ourselves but I truly do feel like these we're problems that silently existed in our relationship when we were monogamous that we kept sweeping under the rug. Both of us agree that if we hadn't done this work now, our relationship in a monogamous dynamic would have been in a really bad place a few years down the road. I understand and relate to your frustrations around feeling like you and your partner committed to being life-long partners and how polyamory is messing with that. I also understand feeling exhausted by the sheer amount of self-work that this is asking you to do and that you would rather focus your energy on areas that feel more important. I felt the same way. Karbon and I feel like soul mates, we live together, work on all our creative passions together & we're each other's best friends. Feeling this fundamental conflict between us and feeling like neither of us were able to budge was super painful to reconcile. At the end of the day, I had to make a decision. I didn't want to lose my best friend and neither did she. So I decided I was going to do the work and so was she. We're communicating A LOT. I decided that I didn't want to just sit in my jealousy and that I not only want to work towards finding a secure attachment for her but I also want to do it for me. It's not easy by any means but the things that have helped me are: 1. Staying calm in our conversations. Not jumping to anxious conclusions like "she wants to give up on our commitment to one another, she doesn't love me, etc, etc". I try my hardest to listen to her with an open heart and open mind and she does the same for me. 2. Going to therapy to explore the roots of my anxious attachment. 3. finding positive examples of polyamory with loving metamore relationships. Going on a group trip to Mexico with Yaz and their partners helped us a lot. It was so beautiful to see how loving and supportive they all are with one another. It made it feel like Polyamory was something I actually wanted to work towards. I recommend trying to find groups in your area and trying to build connections. Maybe check out the dating app Feeld? 4. Allowing myself to explore a romantic connection with another person helped me understand what Karbon was feeling and that it didn't mean that her love for someone else reduced or impacted her love for me. Our connections with others are independent of our connection. 5. Journaling about all the reasons why I love her and why I want to be with her helped affirm that I wanted to keep doing the work. 6. Journaling about what a positive poly future could look like helped me create a more positive mindset. 7. Journaling about what I need from Karbon to start to be comfortable with this helped me navigate the discussions more calmly. I kept rewriting it and editing it until it felt like it was in a voice that she could receive without feeling attacked. 8. Being gentle and patient with each other as difficult emotions come up. We don't set expectations of each other and hold space for the pace we need to go at. While we're aiming to avoid the existence of "rules" in our relationship. Karbon is holding space for the fact that I feel I need them as a temporary crutch as I get comfortable with new milestones. I really hope this helps. There's so much more I could share and this experience is constantly evolving. We're planning on creating more poly episodes and perhaps having our other partners on and maybe even having our therapist! I hope you subscribe so those episodes reach you when they do come out. xo
This resonates with me on a deep level. I have all of the same concerns and hesitations about getting involved in a polyamorous relationship dynamic. I started listening to the Multiamory podcast on Spotify and it has helped me a bit. They have good advice on how to navigate any type of relationship.
Hey ive been poly for seven years and met my wife a few years ago. Its a different type of dynamic since we both were polyamourus before we met. But i sometimes struggle with jealousy too and whats been helping me is asking myself why i feel this way, it's ok to feel this way and how can it be healthy for me to deal with? Ive also been reading polysecure and even though it's very intense with doing tramua work it's pretty good for me. Also maybe you all are life partners but not romantically intwined maybe you both are better off as best friends or queer platonic partners? These are discussions you have to have with yourself and your partner. Ask for more reassurance and be vulnerable with them and your feelings on your relationship. At the end of the day you cant force yourself to like a person or to like a relationship style if it doesn't gel with your being.
I love how you all simply acknowledge that you fucked up and how you've worked to repair that hurt with such grace! I admire that, in a world where many people have a hard time admitting a wrong. including myself many times.
Me and my wife of 16 years just had this conversation. A year ago she expressed interest in being with a woman, which I was totally fine with. I just want her to be happy. Now, after having thought about it for this entire year since and not having found someone for herself because she didn't feel it was fair to me to go out without allowing me to as well, she wants to open the relationship entirely. I'm so happy that during this conversation we naturally hit on 90% of these points and it's looking like a bright journey for us, even though it's certainly scaring me currently, and there is so much to consider.
Fear is a totally normal and valid feeling here. Change isn’t easy and surely trials and tribulation will come with the changes, but you’ve both made it this far with what seems like healthy communication so I’m rooting for you both 💕
I feel you! My partner and I are FRESH to deciding we want to open our marriage. We're both very much in the listen-to-lots-of-pods and read-lots-of-books stage, lol. We've been seeing a sex therapist for a couple months now because frankly we've fixed every other problem in our marriage and now we need a little nudge in the right direction to take our sex lives from amazing to unbelievable. As a couple and as individuals. Same kinda thing though, we've been together for 17 years now, both were very young and very religious when we wed. Now we're not so religious, lol, and we've both had some earnest discussions about our gender identities and sexual orientation. We present as a heteronormative monogamous couple who just kinda stopped going to church. So like half of America, lol. But on the inside, I've long stopped giving a fuck about how I fit into being a man, and discovered that I am pan, and my partner has discovered that they are non binary and more queer than straight. It's had to describe the mix of excited and nervous at even having these discussions with each other. Shit, just admitting poly fantasies to each other is such a crazy erotic mix of nervous and excited energy. I think we're gunna give it a good shot and have a hell of a time doing it, lol. I think you are too!
I've only watched the first session with Yaz and now this one. Karbon feels like they've become a more awesomve version of themselves; I'm loving the energy 🤩
Another great episode! I love the emphasis placed on how no matter what type of relationship you're in, communicating needs, thinking about what you want, all this stuff can only help you be closer and strengthen the relationship. Really interesting questions and conversation!
Personally, while I find these conversations fascinating (I am firmly on the opposite side of the fence). I feel like there's often no room for someone to say that they just, don't want this. Dressed up in a lot of progressive language and therapy for sure but even with love of partner and more communication sometimes something is just not for you. That has to be okay.
I found y'all through your first video on polyamory. I have been exploring in myself if I am poly and I find these discussions super helpful and interesting! Also I really appreciate the quality of these videos, the sound quality is amazing
My lifee my reality is shifting, hearing you guys talk about this so eloquently directly from experience feels like salvation. Polyamory is something my ex weaponised to degrade me. Aggressively trying to convine me that i don’t understand love or have empathy. They slut shamed me tirelessly when i had sex with someone else despite being broken up and receiving their permission while together. The abuse was relentless and completely irrational. It was never truly about cannabis, polyamory or whatever excuse they’d hide behind. The goal wasn’t reconciliation with them. They were habitually on the pursuit to break me so they could feel a sense of relief. Projecting every insecurity onto me, lying with conviction and blaming me for their suffering. Since our last breakup they have become insanely obsessive. It’s unsettling how desperate someone could be for someone they’re comfortable harming. Isolation and financial dependence made it so much worse. It was my first committed relationship. I’m more knowledgeable about partnership, emotional intelligence and wellbeing now. I’m reconnecting with family and healing the trauma that perpetrated that dreadful point of attraction. Everyday my gratitude grows, i did my best to make the best of my situation with them, i’m so excited to see who i become now. Source show me how good it can get. Thank you divine beings for sharing this discussion, you have no idea how much compersion it makes me feel. Your work has a profound impact. Sending you lots of love
I've been exploring the youtube polyamory rabbithole. it's not for me, but i do find the conversations interesting. One of the things about these conversations that I've started to notice, and am a little disturbed by, is that nobody in the community ever discusses power dynamics. There is a great deal of discussion around emotions and actions that are driven by poorly understood factors or emotions that conflict with how they want to feel etc. To me, those are phenomena you should expect to find around manipulation, coercion, and control. You said "Polyamory is something my ex weaponised to degrade me.", I find this fascinating and scary. As a young man in the early 90's who enjoyed a measure of social cachet, my behaviour was, frankly apalling. Were polyamory a thing back then I can easily see how i could've used it to justify and excuse my worst behaviours. If anything, being a bastard was perhaps more honest. When Yaz was talking about her relationship with Pat and the difference in their body counts, and her struggle with that reality, I was starting to wonder about how much of polyamory culture might just be weaponised manipulation, hidden in plain sight. I.m sorry you went through that, but so appreciative of your insight. Thank you.
Really enjoyed your podcast, please keep it going, there’s so little material available that I am so happy every time I find something of a very high quality 🎉🎉
I’m not poly but I love the conversation around kink,sex, queer space and overall communication although what is being discussed is being applied to polyamory I think it can also thrive in monogamous relationships thank you for sharing ❤
Thank you so much. This and the first part of this video have been helpful. However, I still struggle with a niche identity and haven’t found many resources. I identify as a non-binary lesbian but am AMAB. I have no desire to change the way my body looks, and I still deeply feel like that for many years. Listening to three very attractive AFAB people triggers jealousy and sadness in me, but I’ve become better at dealing with it. Thank you all. I wish I had friends like you all. You've got a new fan 😍💕
I watched the last episode with yaz and learned so much, this episode also :) thank you!!! I am a new relationship anarchist and have yet to encounter connections with people who respect my limits, and desire to relate in this way. I hope that learning through reading and listening to others experiences will help me navigate future relationships in a healthy and secure way ❤ thank youuuuu
I feel like the boundaries vs rules debate is really more that unfortunately there are rules... but we don't want there to be rules because we want to be about freedom... but in order to actually make it work in reality there have to be rules... but if we call them boundaries it feels better.
I think the key here is that everyone feels good with the agreement. If something is being imposed on someone it will feel like an unwanted and rigid rule. If it’s a mutual agreement it can still be a rule but it’s going to feel easy to navigate. Boundaries are in place to protect ourselves, not to restrict others.
Thanks youtube for recommending this video! I've never been in a poly relationship and I'm kind of insecure in my current monogamous/open relationship. A lot of the things you discuss here are actually applicable to any relationship, including monogamous I believe. I'm gonna try to communicate more with my partner and also do self reflection. Btw I really like the word compersion, which really aligns with my value to love.
Awwweee thank you! The three of us are not in fact in a polycule together (only Em and Karbon are dating) but the love is still there! Just on a friend level haha
You're back, YAY!! ^_^ Gosh, if only I'd had the communication skills that you guys have, when I was around your ages!!🤯😍 .. Or just now would be fine as well lol I'm in a mono-poly-ish relationship and really need to develop a language for these kinds of topics, so your talks are extremely helpful to me and sososo appreciated!!❤ How do you feel about when people make a "one gender only" boundry in any form of an open relationship? My partner and I have agreed that I only explore sex with other women, but I've since wondered.. What about nonbinary or trans folks? I am really curious, but also a little afraid to open up that conversation as i'm not sure if my cis boyfriend will have some opinions about gender that I am not comfortable with 😕 You're all inspiring me to become more verbal in my relationship so i'll end my ramble with a big Thank You for doing these!!❤❤❤
Thank you so much for watch big and such a thoughtful comment. While we are in no position to give advice, as we are all figuring it out together, something I would get curious about is what sort of opinions do you believe your boyfriend would have on nb and trans folks? Can we challenge those opinions? Is there an opportunity to educate? Are we open to new terms or ways of thinking? And how can we approach that conversation in a way that feels good for everyone? For example, in our own relationship, we find that in order to start the conversation positively and calmly we often first need the dialogue of what we are doing right, or what we appreciate about that person before we ask for a change of something or more of something. So for example, “I love that you are open and willing to work through this dynamic with me, you have been so supportive as my partner in this journey and I would love to chat about some feelings that are coming up for me, while also allowing you the space to ask questions and tell me what comes up for you” Sometimes just setting the stage can be all we need to have a positive conversation on a difficult topic. Again, everyone is different and you know your boyfriend best, but that’s something I might suggest if you feel you resonate with this approach. Hope that helps 💕
Re being upfront and navigating dating (esp Navigating dating poly men). Yes some poly men can be misogynistic and patriarchal so unfortunately if you lead with kink and your sexual self they may split (Madonna/whore) and consider you more of a sexual conquest… which feels terrible bc I am turned on when being treated holistically well and also being objectified in a healthy way. but like Yaz emphasized, have learned to see that those guys who objectify and need to put you in some weird casual sex/objectification box due to their own limitations, aren’t for me… so it weeds them out! I still am upfront on my dating profile about my sexual complexity being incredibly important to me (including kink). It’s a red flag if a potential partner can’t hold your complexities, so yes the dating pool gets smaller and smaller 😮😅
I love this episode!! I’m newly nonmonogamous and wanted to share a resource that’s related and has been helpful for me. Sander T Jones’ book Cultivating Connection has taught me so much in regards to handling the emotions of myself and my partner(s) and how we can avoid conflicts that could come up more often for nonmonogamous people. Would highly recommend it for anyone interested in diving deeper into their relationship dynamics, regardless of if you’re monogamous or not! :))
My last confusion is the difference between agreements and rules. I think that in the end the result are restrictions regardless of how those restrictions where created. And rules are being used to create those restrictions. It's also sometimes questionable whether or not someone is truly agreeing to something, versus feeling like they really have no choice because of unsaid rules that are happening in real time behind the scenes.
Good question. I personally think it comes down to consent and what both partners are comfortable with and agree to rather than one person imposing a strict and unmalleable contract without discussion of desires, boundaries, goals, consent, etc.
I think it's very brave to start a polyamorous relationship when you haven't had one before and I hope things are going well for all of you. I'm very happy for you and hope you can give each other and each others partners lots of love. It's really nice of you to share with everyone and I think listening to you is really good for anyone starting a polyamorous relationship. I was wondering a few things but it might be too rude to ask (rude as in too personal, not the other kind of rude). I wonder if you would do another of these later on about how things are going with your partners partners and talk more about things like if you start being more like a family group or keep as seperate relationships that share partners. I remember the first polyamorous video was the first video of yours I saw because I had so many questions about it. I think I'll have to watch this a few more times because theres a lot in it. I've felt myself that the hardest thing about an open relationship or polyamory is when you think you're the only person in the relationship but that when the expectations are differint you can appreciate multiple partners as being an opportunity for you to have fun and support from each others partners. My main original question was how people are ok with it and I think the original expectations are a big part of the answer, although I agree that knowing you're loved helps.
This is so kind! Thank you so much for your comment and for the well wishes. It definitely has been a challenging journey emotionally, but we've both experienced so much growth along the way. Like Yaz said, despite all the challenges we're all still here because it continues to be worth it for us. Also, no comment is too personal for us aha. Glad you asked. Since we filmed this episode (a month and a half ago) so much has already evolved and changed for us. We're currently in the process of trying to create really nice loving relationships with our metamores but working through complex emotions as we go. We definitely see polyamory being an ongoing segment. We're thinking of bringing both our partners on and also maybe our therapist hehe. Stay tuned.
@QueerCollective @QueerCollective Thank you so much for replying. I'm glad things are going well and hope you deal with the challenges without too much trouble. Also I just looked up what a metamore is. I never heard of it before. I'm sure it will be worth it if you're metamores are as good as you.
I'm also a bit confused by the term Relationship Anarchy. Yaz said it's not that everything goes, there's chaos and no rules. She says anarchy is about who is imposing the rules and can we break those rules down and rebuild ones, etc. But when I look up the definition of anarchy, it specifically says a state of disorder due to absence or authority. People rebuilding new rules is not an absence of authority, it's the creation of new authority. Having rules of any kind is the opposite of anarchy.
Here is my problem. I cannot remember all those birthdays and anniversaries. I live in terror that I will give one woman a better gift than I gave the other and what would they do to me. This i why I am monogamous.
how would y’all recommend coping with the pain of hurting your partner? not intentionally or course, but just in the scenario that one is more poly inclined than the other yk. for reference, i really don’t feel compatible with monogamy.. when i try it i feel so controlled, like i’m not my own person, and i’m not sure why. i feel so bad that i cant just make monogamy work for me. i read the top comment about polyamory feeling like a cancer in their relationship (and emily’s response), and feel the same to be honest - i feel like it’s a cancer in my own mind. i also resonated with what they said about wanting less of their time to be dedicated to dealing with it. adding the pressure of social stigma and the sort of cultural assumption that restrictions are an act of love, i just feel simultaneously like a chained dog and a selfish asshole. my partner of 5 years has never dated anyone but me, and has agreed to polyamory, but is much more comfortable being monogamous. i have another partner of a few months who um. who is also monogamous. both of them knew i wasn’t interested in a monogamous relationship structure but wanted to be with me anyway, somehow, and now it’s like.. i carry their heartaches along with my own, all the time, and it’s so much. i love them deeply but it’s so hard not to just run away and become a hermit, especially living in a conservative texas town yk i feel very abnormal. i wonder if this is a relatable experience. it is, ironically, a very lonely one, and the poly subreddit is kinda super harsh lol
It wasn't called polyamory when I was a young man, we were just called selfish bastards. I think a great deal of polyamory is really about power dynamics, coercion and control, as well as plain old manipuation. "when i try it i feel so controlled, like i’m not my own person, and i’m not sure why" Oh , I can tell you why, it's because you're a cunt. I don't mean that as an insult. But, you know you can have two women at your beck and call, so you want that. If the incels moaning that they haven't kissed a girl in 30 years could do that, they would do it too. That the actual feelings of what these women sacrifice is starting to weigh on your conscience is just growing up. You read everywhere where people say how much they have enjoyed their 60 years of monagomous fidelity, and I'm sure they have, but it has not been my journey, and I don't think it's yours. I think all the "working on themselves" and obsessive contemplation involved in polyamory is just a way for people who enjoy social cachet to justify their selfishness. Your women would rather have all of you, but you are only prepared to offer them shares. You call it polyamory, then like some medievel monk whipping himself in his garret, you sit with your emotions, deal with it etc etc I'm not offering you an easier path, I don't think there is one. All I might suggest is that as you mature, you will probably find that a more brutal honesty about your motivations, your desires, and your advantages, might help you to find a way that lets you like yourself a bit more. There was that african american economist, I cant be bothered lookin him up, just google the quote if you need the source, anyway, he said. "There are no solutions, only trade offs" You get to be a guy who can have two women, good for you. At 25, other men wished they were you, and there was a regular supply of women happy enough to try and make that 3. You get a little older, start thinking about kids, and the example you set them. What happens when you bring a daughter in to the world. (I can tell you this, she has 3 kids, a string of degrees, a loving husband, just bought a new house, successful career, I am unbelievably proud of her, also, she doesn't talk to me.) Only you can decide where to go from here. I'd probably tell you to lose the polyamory, it lacks authenticity, Maybe you can do monagagamy(that was an accident, but i am deliberately embracing that spelling), but I doubt it. You'll probably end up a serial cheater. But ultimately, I think the ethical thing to do is sit these two women down and tell them the truth, the whole truth, be completely open about what you want, and what compromises you are prepared to make. Then ask them what they want, and try to give it to them. Good Luck, I'm not suggesting any ideology, but you might find some of the stuff in this podcast of value chriswillx.com/podcast/
Seems like they are actually unhappy and trying to gaslight themselves that they are okay with that, I’m sorry. If I were you, I would be bigger than my ego and desires and leave them so they could find the relationship they truly want and feel loved, appreciated in. Find someone who’s also poly, don’t traumatise monogamous folks. You don’t need to cope with the pain you’re causing because there must be NO pain for your partners in the first place. Leave them so you all can find your own happiness.
Seems like they are actually unhappy and trying to gaslight themselves that they are okay with that, I’m sorry. If I were you, I would be bigger than my ego and desires and leave them so they could find the relationship they truly want and feel loved, appreciated in. Find someone who’s also poly, don’t traumatise monogamous folks. You don’t need to cope with the pain you’re causing because there must be NO pain for your partners in the first place. Leave them so you all can find your own happiness.
Hierarchy may be necessary for stability. Let's be honest, people are not always healthy or safe and sometimes it takes a minute to figure that out. Sometimes the wife if 15 years will be able to see serious red flags that the man won't see. If there are children involved, stability should be the thing at the top of the hierarchy.
me and my partner got together with the intention to be Polyam. We talk about it from time to time to just make sure we on the same page but neither of us have other partners yet. We are both new to it, me having begun to explore over a year ago and him just having been not dating at all the last year or go but otherwise not meeting others with the same interest.
It’s good to take it slow and not rush into anything as well as continue to keep that consistent check-in with your partner. I hope it all works out and wish you a long healthy relationship 💕
Does anyone know any good polyamory forums. I’m breaking here and need some advice. Nothing bad is even happening I’m just struggling to trust so much with quite a unique situation my partner is in :((
Hi. I was wondering if polyamory is easier for bi or gay couples because they can share partners where straight couples can't. I'm asking this for couples that are already confident with their emotional relationship to reduce variables and because you already talked about that in your video. If it is easier for bi or gay couples, is there something straight couples could do to get a similar advantage or if it's not, can you tell me what would make the thought of an extra partner harder rather than something to be excited about please? I was also wondering what would be the reason for asking an existing partner to not be around when taking someone home to have sex with rather than ask them to join in and why you would go out with partners separately rather than spend time with multiple partners at the same time assuming they get on ok since the purpose of polyamory is to be with everyone you want. Thanks for reading and sorry that I'm asking so much.
Hi! great questions, thank you for your comment. In general, you and your partner no matter your sexualities may not have the same type and you may not have a sexual attraction or romantic connection to your metamore. Secondly, everyone being attracted to everyone isn't necessarily a requirement to have group sex together either. For example lots of straight m/f couples hookup with other straight m/f couples. So yes, both of you being bi or gay may increase the probability that you're attracted to each other's partners but it doesn't guarantee it. Currently in our relationship (Emily & Karbon) we're both working on forming really loving platonic friendships with our metamores before moving onto anything else. Sometimes your motivation for group sex can be that you want to fulfill the sexual desires of the person you love most. For your second question. There are different relationship structures as Yaz laid out in this video. People who are exploring dating together as a throuple, may be more inclined to only date all together. For many others, they are interested in forming separate relationships independent of their other partners. so they date separately but may often hangout as a group because it's easy to form loving friendships with your partner partners. There's no road map for polyamory. It all comes down to what feels right to you and your partner(s).
@QueerCollective thankyou so much for talking to me. I really appreciate it. I've been wondering a couple of these things for a while since a previous relationship.
Well, back in the day there was a saying, “It’s called polyamory not polyf*ckary.” Back then polyamory referred exclusively to fidelitous loving and romantic relationships that included more than two people. Everything else was called “free love” or swinging or lifestyle, or just an open relationship. Now all of that and more is called poly and there are new terms like anarchy roughly free love, hierarchy roughly lifestyle. Have you ever had a friend group where one person grated on your nerves? How about a friend group with a manipulator? One creating drama? Poisoning friends against each other? Or just that one person who is always denigrating towards you or another friend? Ever had a friend with support needs, but your new friend is an ableist? Ever had a friend that started dating someone toxic, but they just couldn’t see it? Or a friend that kept falling for narcissist love bombing? Now change the word friend to lover or partner. Are you demi, but still need or want emotional intimacy every day? Do you dislike feeling left out? Your mileage may vary.
Trying to make sense of this before a date with someone. A red flag for me and maybe not for ya’ll on the left which is totally fine, however I just feel compelled to say that I personally feel it’s problematic that Carbon’s relationship was opened after a year of Their partner not um, adequately performing bedroom tasks. Was that a conversation going in to possibly amend that before opening? -Hate From Australia ❤
Which part are you referring to? Karbon has never had an open relationship except for the one she is now, and that happened after 6 years together. Nothing to do with being inadequate in the bedroom. All other examples in this video are hypothetical and made up. No need for hate?
I'm a bit confused by the hierarchy aspect of this talk, where Yaz explains it as a social condition the people create, when hierarchy's happen regardless of social conditioning. Like for instance, the hierarchy is happening right now, as Yaz is a guest on the show who speaks with authority. In this situation, Yaz is at the top of the conversational hierarchy. If someone came into the room with far less experience on these subjects, the group would put that person at the bottom of the hierarchy on these topics. They may not call it that, but that wouldn't change the fact that it would be happening in real time.
I think the particular scenario here creates authority over a subject matter based on the guest's knowledge of said subject rather than it being a social hierarchy and an exercise of power. Interesting thought!
Writing a contract seems like a giant red flag to me. Humans are complex and dynamic, and circumstances change. It seems like a recipe for resentment if someone goes outside those agreed rules. It is essentially putting a restriction on freedom and liberty, and doesn’t approach the relationship with unconditional love. I say this as a person in a long-term polyamorous relationship, who has experienced all these bumps in the road you describe.
I think it’s important to know that agreements can/do change as desires and boundaries change. It’s not set in stone (or shouldn’t be) but can be a helpful tool to understand the other person’s parameters
It certainly looks like polyamory is good for your skin cos y'all are GLOWING
BEST. COMMENT. EVER
I was hoping if I rewatched the last ep enough times yall might come thru, AND YOU DID ;)
Feels so good to provide a part 2 💕
00:00 🚪 Polyamory removes stigma around non-monogamy and sex, offering freedom and liberation.
02:22 🗣 Polyamorous relationships demand extensive communication, navigating insecurities and big emotions.
03:18 💔 Cons of polyamory include challenging scheduling, emotional exhaustion, and considering multiple people's feelings.
04:45 ⚖ Polyamory can be intense; when bad, it's really bad, impacting free time and facing societal stigma.
06:39 💬 Despite challenges, the benefits of polyamory include developing communication skills, self-knowledge, and experiencing adventure and variety.
09:03 ⏰ Prioritizing intentional time strengthens relationships, fostering intimacy and communication.
10:58 🔄 Exploring kink alongside polyamory promotes acceptance of diverse desires and removes shame from sexual exploration.
14:18 🔍 In navigating differing relationship structures, it's crucial not to coerce partners into change, but to find mutual understanding and respect boundaries.
16:15 🔄 Understanding different relationship structures: Couples may approach opening up their relationship differently based on their history together and individual preferences.
17:43 💡 Reasons for opening up a relationship: Factors like physical distance, changes in needs, and mental health can prompt the consideration of alternative relationship structures.
18:39 🔄 Addressing past experiences: Previous emotional wounds can influence feelings about opening up, emphasizing the importance of open communication and understanding.
19:37 🔄 Relationship dynamics: Different relationship structures like open and polyamorous require clear communication, boundary setting, and mutual understanding to thrive.
20:59 🔄 Understanding relationship dynamics retrospectively: Reflecting on past experiences can shed light on relationship preferences and communication strategies.
21:58 💭 Overcoming scarcity mindset: Recognizing that fulfilling individual needs doesn't signify a lack in the existing relationship can ease fears and promote personal growth.
22:56 💞 Prioritizing partner happiness: Supporting partners' pursuit of joy and freedom fosters trust and emotional connection in relationships.
24:51 🔄 Boundary vs. Rule: Distinguishing between boundaries (self-imposed restrictions) and rules (imposed on others) promotes healthier communication and mutual respect.
26:19 📝 Relationship agreements: Establishing clear agreements, including boundaries and expectations, helps navigate complex relationship dynamics.
30:39 🔄 Building equity in relationships: Acknowledging and addressing disparities in emotional investment and time allocation fosters balance and mutual understanding.
33:00 💑 Love as an action: Love is demonstrated through actions and efforts to rebuild trust and intimacy, emphasizing the importance of ongoing commitment and communication.
33:30 💡 Love is in action, not just a feeling. Taking actions can reignite feelings of love in a relationship.
34:58 💬 Hierarchical polyamory can involve organic aspects like shared living and family, but it's crucial to consider whether it's based on genuine choice or default assumptions.
37:19 🤔 Questioning the motivation behind engaging in hierarchical polyamory is essential to ensure it's not driven by a desire for control or security.
38:46 ⚖ Veto power in hierarchical relationships can raise ethical concerns as it involves controlling someone else's relationships without consent.
40:15 🔄 Relationship anarchy encourages reevaluation of relationship norms and boundaries, focusing on equitable dynamics rather than strict hierarchies.
42:12 🔍 Explicit communication and mutual consent are vital in hierarchical relationships to avoid assumptions and ensure everyone's needs are considered.
46:03 📜 In ethical hierarchical relationships, all partners should have the space to express boundaries, needs, and desires without one partner exerting undue control.
49:27 🕵♂ "Sneaky Aki" refers to unexamined or undisclosed hierarchies in supposedly non-hierarchical relationships, highlighting the importance of transparent communication.
50:55 🔄 Acknowledge and actively address hierarchical tendencies in polyamorous relationships without judgment.
53:18 🌱 Approach entering existing polyamorous relationships with an open mind and understanding that the relationship existed before you and will continue after you.
55:15 💬 Maintain agency and boundaries when entering new polyamorous relationships, checking in with yourself and communicating openly about your needs.
57:07 🗣 Encourage open and honest communication in polyamorous relationships, avoiding fear of discussing feelings or concerns.
58:02 🔄 When navigating polyamorous dating, be upfront about your desires and boundaries to sift through potential matches effectively.
01:04:16 🛤 Frequenting the same places and engaging in hobbies can facilitate meeting potential partners in real life for polyamorous individuals.
01:06:37 🕵♀ Being upfront about your identity and desires early on in dating can help filter out incompatible matches, though it's essential to balance intensity to avoid scaring off potential matches.
01:08:04 🧪 Experimentation and learning in dating, polyamory, or queer relationships involve trying different types of intimacy and activities consensually, while allowing oneself to make mistakes and learn from them.
01:09:30 🕰 When a partner asks for more time, it's crucial to assess if the issue is genuine lack of time or lack of desire to spend time with them, and communicate transparently and compassionately about the situation.
01:11:24 💚 Navigating jealousy involves understanding the concept of "compersion," finding joy in your partner's happiness even if it doesn't directly involve you, and exploring the root causes and accompanying emotions of jealousy.
01:12:49 🧠 Viewing jealousy as an opportunityfor self-exploration rather than a negative emotion to be managed helps foster a healthier mindset, allowing individuals to delve deeper into their feelings and motivations.
01:17:10 🤝 Building security and trust in relationships is essential for experiencing compersion, with factors such as communication, understanding attachment styles, and gaining more information aiding in fostering feelings of security.
01:20:04 💞 Affirming partners' needs and feelings, such as through quality time, words of affirmation, or gifts, can help alleviate jealousy and strengthen emotional connections, provided both parties communicate openly and genuinely.
Wow! Thank you for all the time stamps aha. Hope you enjoyed the episode.
@@QueerCollective Indeed. I did enjoy it. There is so little about happiness, and so much about the ”correct” way of fitting in the slave machine. Keep up the good work!
This is my truth, and I 100% respect that it is not y'alls... More than half the time polyamory feels like a cancer in my relationship. It may just not be for me, but it seems like its for my partner. And I want my partner to live their fullest life, but also we committed to being life-long partners and poly does fuck with that.
Part of me feels like all the work I'm doing around my jealousy is a kind of gaslighting, where I try to convince myself that all I need is to get that golden secure attachment and everything will be "back to normal." And frankly, there is just more I want to do with my life than agonize over whether or not I'm securely attached to the love of my life as they fall in love with other people, spending thousands of dollars on therapy and hundreds and hundreds of hours talking and processing.
The sex is fun. The sex is amazing. And sex is so important. But even more important to me is living an erotically charged life where I can channel that erotic energy into my creativity, justice, community. And honestly polyamory is such a mind fuck that I am spending most of my time in never ending spirals with my loving partner. And all the relational navel gazing feels, to me, solipsistic, especially when I remember what's happening in gaza or that I might be on this planet for other reason than figuring out how to have romantic partnerships with multiple people.
Finally, I'll say: it would be easier, I think, if I knew of more couples who have been poly for decades, but the vast majority of poly couples I meet haven't been. And I get that's because of the stigma, and older generations haven't been able to come out in the way ours has but it would be nice to have more elders.
This is my truth. I know other people may feel differently, and I completely love and respect that.
Hi! Thank you so much for your comment and apologies for the delayed reply. Took us a second to let it soak in. For reference this is Emily replying (the host with the longer brown hair who was sharing feelings of preferring a more "open" dynamic over polyamory.
Surprisingly enough, this is actually very close to how I was feeling at the time of recording this episode. I was doing my best to play things off positively but I definitely found myself getting triggered by a few of Yaz's answers throughout the conversation because I just wasn't ready to hear them. Especially their response around rules & what they said about not being able to change someone's preferred relationship style. Those were some hard pills for me to swallow.
I also struggle with anxious attachment. At the time of recording this episode, Karbon let me know that she feels like a polyamorous person and cannot just be open or monogamous. and on top of that she admitted to me for the first time that she had developed strong feelings for the person she had been casually seeing. This was terrifying to me, a lot of fears and insecurities came up and Karbon wasn't responding to them in the way I felt I needed her to for me to feel affirmed and secure in our relationship. Since then we've worked a lot on our relationship and on ourselves. The work was and continues to be really emotionally exhausting. If I'm being honest, the two of us are feeling quite burnt out from it all. We're trying to be gentle with ourselves but I truly do feel like these we're problems that silently existed in our relationship when we were monogamous that we kept sweeping under the rug. Both of us agree that if we hadn't done this work now, our relationship in a monogamous dynamic would have been in a really bad place a few years down the road.
I understand and relate to your frustrations around feeling like you and your partner committed to being life-long partners and how polyamory is messing with that. I also understand feeling exhausted by the sheer amount of self-work that this is asking you to do and that you would rather focus your energy on areas that feel more important. I felt the same way. Karbon and I feel like soul mates, we live together, work on all our creative passions together & we're each other's best friends. Feeling this fundamental conflict between us and feeling like neither of us were able to budge was super painful to reconcile.
At the end of the day, I had to make a decision. I didn't want to lose my best friend and neither did she. So I decided I was going to do the work and so was she. We're communicating A LOT. I decided that I didn't want to just sit in my jealousy and that I not only want to work towards finding a secure attachment for her but I also want to do it for me. It's not easy by any means but the things that have helped me are:
1. Staying calm in our conversations. Not jumping to anxious conclusions like "she wants to give up on our commitment to one another, she doesn't love me, etc, etc". I try my hardest to listen to her with an open heart and open mind and she does the same for me.
2. Going to therapy to explore the roots of my anxious attachment.
3. finding positive examples of polyamory with loving metamore relationships. Going on a group trip to Mexico with Yaz and their partners helped us a lot. It was so beautiful to see how loving and supportive they all are with one another. It made it feel like Polyamory was something I actually wanted to work towards. I recommend trying to find groups in your area and trying to build connections. Maybe check out the dating app Feeld?
4. Allowing myself to explore a romantic connection with another person helped me understand what Karbon was feeling and that it didn't mean that her love for someone else reduced or impacted her love for me. Our connections with others are independent of our connection.
5. Journaling about all the reasons why I love her and why I want to be with her helped affirm that I wanted to keep doing the work.
6. Journaling about what a positive poly future could look like helped me create a more positive mindset.
7. Journaling about what I need from Karbon to start to be comfortable with this helped me navigate the discussions more calmly. I kept rewriting it and editing it until it felt like it was in a voice that she could receive without feeling attacked.
8. Being gentle and patient with each other as difficult emotions come up. We don't set expectations of each other and hold space for the pace we need to go at. While we're aiming to avoid the existence of "rules" in our relationship. Karbon is holding space for the fact that I feel I need them as a temporary crutch as I get comfortable with new milestones.
I really hope this helps. There's so much more I could share and this experience is constantly evolving. We're planning on creating more poly episodes and perhaps having our other partners on and maybe even having our therapist! I hope you subscribe so those episodes reach you when they do come out.
xo
@@cpacoop Just replied !
This resonates with me on a deep level. I have all of the same concerns and hesitations about getting involved in a polyamorous relationship dynamic. I started listening to the Multiamory podcast on Spotify and it has helped me a bit. They have good advice on how to navigate any type of relationship.
Wow, Emily. Thank you so much for this thoughtful reply. I've been holding it with me all week. You're an absolute gem!
Hey ive been poly for seven years and met my wife a few years ago. Its a different type of dynamic since we both were polyamourus before we met. But i sometimes struggle with jealousy too and whats been helping me is asking myself why i feel this way, it's ok to feel this way and how can it be healthy for me to deal with? Ive also been reading polysecure and even though it's very intense with doing tramua work it's pretty good for me. Also maybe you all are life partners but not romantically intwined maybe you both are better off as best friends or queer platonic partners? These are discussions you have to have with yourself and your partner. Ask for more reassurance and be vulnerable with them and your feelings on your relationship.
At the end of the day you cant force yourself to like a person or to like a relationship style if it doesn't gel with your being.
I love how you all simply acknowledge that you fucked up and how you've worked to repair that hurt with such grace! I admire that, in a world where many people have a hard time admitting a wrong. including myself many times.
Thanks so much, we really strive for honesty always 💕
Me and my wife of 16 years just had this conversation. A year ago she expressed interest in being with a woman, which I was totally fine with. I just want her to be happy. Now, after having thought about it for this entire year since and not having found someone for herself because she didn't feel it was fair to me to go out without allowing me to as well, she wants to open the relationship entirely. I'm so happy that during this conversation we naturally hit on 90% of these points and it's looking like a bright journey for us, even though it's certainly scaring me currently, and there is so much to consider.
Fear is a totally normal and valid feeling here. Change isn’t easy and surely trials and tribulation will come with the changes, but you’ve both made it this far with what seems like healthy communication so I’m rooting for you both 💕
I feel you!
My partner and I are FRESH to deciding we want to open our marriage. We're both very much in the listen-to-lots-of-pods and read-lots-of-books stage, lol. We've been seeing a sex therapist for a couple months now because frankly we've fixed every other problem in our marriage and now we need a little nudge in the right direction to take our sex lives from amazing to unbelievable. As a couple and as individuals.
Same kinda thing though, we've been together for 17 years now, both were very young and very religious when we wed. Now we're not so religious, lol, and we've both had some earnest discussions about our gender identities and sexual orientation. We present as a heteronormative monogamous couple who just kinda stopped going to church. So like half of America, lol. But on the inside, I've long stopped giving a fuck about how I fit into being a man, and discovered that I am pan, and my partner has discovered that they are non binary and more queer than straight.
It's had to describe the mix of excited and nervous at even having these discussions with each other. Shit, just admitting poly fantasies to each other is such a crazy erotic mix of nervous and excited energy.
I think we're gunna give it a good shot and have a hell of a time doing it, lol. I think you are too!
@@QueerCollectiveFear is not ever normal in a marriage. You fool yourself.
Your wife is scaring you to give her what she wants. Please tell her no & if she continues to ask for polyamory, do the respectful thing & separate.
straight dude here from austin. Learning tons of useful relationship ideas from this conversation. much appreciation.
So glad to hear it! 💕
I'm so happy you had Yaz back!!! This was so lovely🪷Also...adore the mic quality and you all's voices its like asmr🥰
Thank you so much! We love having Yaz on the pod
I've only watched the first session with Yaz and now this one. Karbon feels like they've become a more awesomve version of themselves; I'm loving the energy 🤩
Oh wow thank you so much! We agree
Another great episode! I love the emphasis placed on how no matter what type of relationship you're in, communicating needs, thinking about what you want, all this stuff can only help you be closer and strengthen the relationship. Really interesting questions and conversation!
Thank you for listening 💕
Personally, while I find these conversations fascinating (I am firmly on the opposite side of the fence). I feel like there's often no room for someone to say that they just, don't want this. Dressed up in a lot of progressive language and therapy for sure but even with love of partner and more communication sometimes something is just not for you. That has to be okay.
Absolutely! Do what is right for you
I found y'all through your first video on polyamory. I have been exploring in myself if I am poly and I find these discussions super helpful and interesting! Also I really appreciate the quality of these videos, the sound quality is amazing
Omg thank you! Glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching ☺️
My lifee my reality is shifting, hearing you guys talk about this so eloquently directly from experience feels like salvation.
Polyamory is something my ex weaponised to degrade me. Aggressively trying to convine me that i don’t understand love or have empathy. They slut shamed me tirelessly when i had sex with someone else despite being broken up and receiving their permission while together. The abuse was relentless and completely irrational. It was never truly about cannabis, polyamory or whatever excuse they’d hide behind. The goal wasn’t reconciliation with them. They were habitually on the pursuit to break me so they could feel a sense of relief. Projecting every insecurity onto me, lying with conviction and blaming me for their suffering. Since our last breakup they have become insanely obsessive. It’s unsettling how desperate someone could be for someone they’re comfortable harming. Isolation and financial dependence made it so much worse. It was my first committed relationship. I’m more knowledgeable about partnership, emotional intelligence and wellbeing now. I’m reconnecting with family and healing the trauma that perpetrated that dreadful point of attraction. Everyday my gratitude grows, i did my best to make the best of my situation with them, i’m so excited to see who i become now. Source show me how good it can get.
Thank you divine beings for sharing this discussion, you have no idea how much compersion it makes me feel. Your work has a profound impact.
Sending you lots of love
Thank you so much for sharing 💕💕
I've been exploring the youtube polyamory rabbithole. it's not for me, but i do find the conversations interesting.
One of the things about these conversations that I've started to notice, and am a little disturbed by, is that nobody in the community ever discusses power dynamics. There is a great deal of discussion around emotions and actions that are driven by poorly understood factors or emotions that conflict with how they want to feel etc. To me, those are phenomena you should expect to find around manipulation, coercion, and control.
You said "Polyamory is something my ex weaponised to degrade me.", I find this fascinating and scary.
As a young man in the early 90's who enjoyed a measure of social cachet, my behaviour was, frankly apalling. Were polyamory a thing back then I can easily see how i could've used it to justify and excuse my worst behaviours. If anything, being a bastard was perhaps more honest. When Yaz was talking about her relationship with Pat and the difference in their body counts, and her struggle with that reality, I was starting to wonder about how much of polyamory culture might just be weaponised manipulation, hidden in plain sight.
I.m sorry you went through that, but so appreciative of your insight.
Thank you.
Really enjoyed your podcast, please keep it going, there’s so little material available that I am so happy every time I find something of a very high quality 🎉🎉
Thank you so much!
I’m not poly but I love the conversation around kink,sex, queer space and overall communication although what is being discussed is being applied to polyamory I think it can also thrive in monogamous relationships thank you for sharing ❤
So glad you liked it! 💕 it truly is applicable to all relationships
Thank you so much. This and the first part of this video have been helpful. However, I still struggle with a niche identity and haven’t found many resources. I identify as a non-binary lesbian but am AMAB. I have no desire to change the way my body looks, and I still deeply feel like that for many years. Listening to three very attractive AFAB people triggers jealousy and sadness in me, but I’ve become better at dealing with it. Thank you all. I wish I had friends like you all. You've got a new fan 😍💕
Thank you so much for sharing. Being vulnerable isn’t easy. We appreciate your honesty and please know you are deserving of love and community 💕
I watched the last episode with yaz and learned so much, this episode also :) thank you!!! I am a new relationship anarchist and have yet to encounter connections with people who respect my limits, and desire to relate in this way. I hope that learning through reading and listening to others experiences will help me navigate future relationships in a healthy and secure way ❤ thank youuuuu
Glad to hear this!
Love a second episode on this topic with Yaz! Thanks! 🎉🌸
Same! This made me so happy!! 😭💜💜💜💜
@@tashi_tv 🙏🙏💖
Thank you for watching! 💕
oh my god !!! i was just watching the first video w yaz and now i check and you guys bought them back
Thank you for watching! Glad you enjoyed 💕
I feel like the boundaries vs rules debate is really more that unfortunately there are rules... but we don't want there to be rules because we want to be about freedom... but in order to actually make it work in reality there have to be rules... but if we call them boundaries it feels better.
I think the key here is that everyone feels good with the agreement. If something is being imposed on someone it will feel like an unwanted and rigid rule. If it’s a mutual agreement it can still be a rule but it’s going to feel easy to navigate. Boundaries are in place to protect ourselves, not to restrict others.
@@QueerCollective Rules out of love and respect vs rules for the sake of control
Thanks youtube for recommending this video! I've never been in a poly relationship and I'm kind of insecure in my current monogamous/open relationship. A lot of the things you discuss here are actually applicable to any relationship, including monogamous I believe. I'm gonna try to communicate more with my partner and also do self reflection. Btw I really like the word compersion, which really aligns with my value to love.
Yay so glad to hear it! 💕
Hey I just watched the last one and I could feel the connection between you three. I am so glad to open this and find out the great news.
Awwweee thank you! The three of us are not in fact in a polycule together (only Em and Karbon are dating) but the love is still there! Just on a friend level haha
Really love the poly content!
Thanks for watching! 💕
You're back, YAY!! ^_^
Gosh, if only I'd had the communication skills that you guys have, when I was around your ages!!🤯😍 .. Or just now would be fine as well lol
I'm in a mono-poly-ish relationship and really need to develop a language for these kinds of topics, so your talks are extremely helpful to me and sososo appreciated!!❤
How do you feel about when people make a "one gender only" boundry in any form of an open relationship?
My partner and I have agreed that I only explore sex with other women, but I've since wondered.. What about nonbinary or trans folks?
I am really curious, but also a little afraid to open up that conversation as i'm not sure if my cis boyfriend will have some opinions about gender that I am not comfortable with 😕
You're all inspiring me to become more verbal in my relationship so i'll end my ramble with a big Thank You for doing these!!❤❤❤
Thank you so much for watch big and such a thoughtful comment. While we are in no position to give advice, as we are all figuring it out together, something I would get curious about is what sort of opinions do you believe your boyfriend would have on nb and trans folks? Can we challenge those opinions? Is there an opportunity to educate? Are we open to new terms or ways of thinking? And how can we approach that conversation in a way that feels good for everyone?
For example, in our own relationship, we find that in order to start the conversation positively and calmly we often first need the dialogue of what we are doing right, or what we appreciate about that person before we ask for a change of something or more of something. So for example, “I love that you are open and willing to work through this dynamic with me, you have been so supportive as my partner in this journey and I would love to chat about some feelings that are coming up for me, while also allowing you the space to ask questions and tell me what comes up for you”
Sometimes just setting the stage can be all we need to have a positive conversation on a difficult topic. Again, everyone is different and you know your boyfriend best, but that’s something I might suggest if you feel you resonate with this approach. Hope that helps 💕
This is so logical and healthy I learned so much
This was such a great insightful conversation! It's inspiring to hear more about how to cultivate healthy, queer non-monog relationships
Glad you enjoyed!
Re being upfront and navigating dating (esp Navigating dating poly men). Yes some poly men can be misogynistic and patriarchal so unfortunately if you lead with kink and your sexual self they may split (Madonna/whore) and consider you more of a sexual conquest… which feels terrible bc I am turned on when being treated holistically well and also being objectified in a healthy way. but like Yaz emphasized, have learned to see that those guys who objectify and need to put you in some weird casual sex/objectification box due to their own limitations, aren’t for me… so it weeds them out! I still am upfront on my dating profile about my sexual complexity being incredibly important to me (including kink). It’s a red flag if a potential partner can’t hold your complexities, so yes the dating pool gets smaller and smaller 😮😅
Love to hear reminders that us secure men are out there! Whew. We have a lot of general generational trauma to undo.
This was so amazingly helpful; I’ve been able to get realer with myself about my needs and expectations. Thank you so much 🙌🏾✨✨
So glad it could help 😊
I love this episode!! I’m newly nonmonogamous and wanted to share a resource that’s related and has been helpful for me. Sander T Jones’ book Cultivating Connection has taught me so much in regards to handling the emotions of myself and my partner(s) and how we can avoid conflicts that could come up more often for nonmonogamous people. Would highly recommend it for anyone interested in diving deeper into their relationship dynamics, regardless of if you’re monogamous or not! :))
Thank you so much for sharing!
Oh, my... 1:03:00 That's so mature and it made me relate a lot. Taking this to therapy asap
So glad it helped!
My last confusion is the difference between agreements and rules. I think that in the end the result are restrictions regardless of how those restrictions where created. And rules are being used to create those restrictions. It's also sometimes questionable whether or not someone is truly agreeing to something, versus feeling like they really have no choice because of unsaid rules that are happening in real time behind the scenes.
Good question. I personally think it comes down to consent and what both partners are comfortable with and agree to rather than one person imposing a strict and unmalleable contract without discussion of desires, boundaries, goals, consent, etc.
I think it's very brave to start a polyamorous relationship when you haven't had one before and I hope things are going well for all of you.
I'm very happy for you and hope you can give each other and each others partners lots of love.
It's really nice of you to share with everyone and I think listening to you is really good for anyone starting a polyamorous relationship.
I was wondering a few things but it might be too rude to ask (rude as in too personal, not the other kind of rude).
I wonder if you would do another of these later on about how things are going with your partners partners and talk more about things like if you start being more like a family group or keep as seperate relationships that share partners.
I remember the first polyamorous video was the first video of yours I saw because I had so many questions about it.
I think I'll have to watch this a few more times because theres a lot in it.
I've felt myself that the hardest thing about an open relationship or polyamory is when you think you're the only person in the relationship but that when the expectations are differint you can appreciate multiple partners as being an opportunity for you to have fun and support from each others partners.
My main original question was how people are ok with it and I think the original expectations are a big part of the answer, although I agree that knowing you're loved helps.
This is so kind! Thank you so much for your comment and for the well wishes. It definitely has been a challenging journey emotionally, but we've both experienced so much growth along the way. Like Yaz said, despite all the challenges we're all still here because it continues to be worth it for us. Also, no comment is too personal for us aha. Glad you asked. Since we filmed this episode (a month and a half ago) so much has already evolved and changed for us. We're currently in the process of trying to create really nice loving relationships with our metamores but working through complex emotions as we go. We definitely see polyamory being an ongoing segment. We're thinking of bringing both our partners on and also maybe our therapist hehe. Stay tuned.
@QueerCollective @QueerCollective Thank you so much for replying.
I'm glad things are going well and hope you deal with the challenges without too much trouble.
Also I just looked up what a metamore is.
I never heard of it before.
I'm sure it will be worth it if you're metamores are as good as you.
@@QueerCollective I'll definitely stay tuned
Thank you so much, this video was so informative and educating. I hope you continue to have these conversations
Thanks for watching bc glad it helped! 💕
I'm also a bit confused by the term Relationship Anarchy. Yaz said it's not that everything goes, there's chaos and no rules. She says anarchy is about who is imposing the rules and can we break those rules down and rebuild ones, etc. But when I look up the definition of anarchy, it specifically says a state of disorder due to absence or authority.
People rebuilding new rules is not an absence of authority, it's the creation of new authority. Having rules of any kind is the opposite of anarchy.
an interesting thought and valid point. I suppose relationship anarchy in particular has been redefined over time
@@QueerCollective Ah. Makes sense.
Here is my problem. I cannot remember all those birthdays and anniversaries. I live in terror that I will give one woman a better gift than I gave the other and what would they do to me. This i why I am monogamous.
how would y’all recommend coping with the pain of hurting your partner? not intentionally or course, but just in the scenario that one is more poly inclined than the other yk. for reference, i really don’t feel compatible with monogamy.. when i try it i feel so controlled, like i’m not my own person, and i’m not sure why. i feel so bad that i cant just make monogamy work for me. i read the top comment about polyamory feeling like a cancer in their relationship (and emily’s response), and feel the same to be honest - i feel like it’s a cancer in my own mind. i also resonated with what they said about wanting less of their time to be dedicated to dealing with it. adding the pressure of social stigma and the sort of cultural assumption that restrictions are an act of love, i just feel simultaneously like a chained dog and a selfish asshole. my partner of 5 years has never dated anyone but me, and has agreed to polyamory, but is much more comfortable being monogamous. i have another partner of a few months who um. who is also monogamous. both of them knew i wasn’t interested in a monogamous relationship structure but wanted to be with me anyway, somehow, and now it’s like.. i carry their heartaches along with my own, all the time, and it’s so much. i love them deeply but it’s so hard not to just run away and become a hermit, especially living in a conservative texas town yk i feel very abnormal. i wonder if this is a relatable experience. it is, ironically, a very lonely one, and the poly subreddit is kinda super harsh lol
It wasn't called polyamory when I was a young man, we were just called selfish bastards. I think a great deal of polyamory is really about power dynamics, coercion and control, as well as plain old manipuation.
"when i try it i feel so controlled, like i’m not my own person, and i’m not sure why"
Oh , I can tell you why, it's because you're a cunt. I don't mean that as an insult. But, you know you can have two women at your beck and call, so you want that. If the incels moaning that they haven't kissed a girl in 30 years could do that, they would do it too.
That the actual feelings of what these women sacrifice is starting to weigh on your conscience is just growing up. You read everywhere where people say how much they have enjoyed their 60 years of monagomous fidelity, and I'm sure they have, but it has not been my journey, and I don't think it's yours.
I think all the "working on themselves" and obsessive contemplation involved in polyamory is just a way for people who enjoy social cachet to justify their selfishness. Your women would rather have all of you, but you are only prepared to offer them shares. You call it polyamory, then like some medievel monk whipping himself in his garret, you sit with your emotions, deal with it etc etc
I'm not offering you an easier path, I don't think there is one. All I might suggest is that as you mature, you will probably find that a more brutal honesty about your motivations, your desires, and your advantages, might help you to find a way that lets you like yourself a bit more.
There was that african american economist, I cant be bothered lookin him up, just google the quote if you need the source, anyway, he said.
"There are no solutions, only trade offs"
You get to be a guy who can have two women, good for you. At 25, other men wished they were you, and there was a regular supply of women happy enough to try and make that 3.
You get a little older, start thinking about kids, and the example you set them. What happens when you bring a daughter in to the world. (I can tell you this, she has 3 kids, a string of degrees, a loving husband, just bought a new house, successful career, I am unbelievably proud of her, also, she doesn't talk to me.)
Only you can decide where to go from here.
I'd probably tell you to lose the polyamory, it lacks authenticity,
Maybe you can do monagagamy(that was an accident, but i am deliberately embracing that spelling), but I doubt it.
You'll probably end up a serial cheater.
But ultimately, I think the ethical thing to do is sit these two women down and tell them the truth, the whole truth, be completely open about what you want, and what compromises you are prepared to make. Then ask them what they want, and try to give it to them.
Good Luck,
I'm not suggesting any ideology, but you might find some of the stuff in this podcast of value
chriswillx.com/podcast/
Seems like they are actually unhappy and trying to gaslight themselves that they are okay with that, I’m sorry. If I were you, I would be bigger than my ego and desires and leave them so they could find the relationship they truly want and feel loved, appreciated in. Find someone who’s also poly, don’t traumatise monogamous folks. You don’t need to cope with the pain you’re causing because there must be NO pain for your partners in the first place.
Leave them so you all can find your own happiness.
Seems like they are actually unhappy and trying to gaslight themselves that they are okay with that, I’m sorry. If I were you, I would be bigger than my ego and desires and leave them so they could find the relationship they truly want and feel loved, appreciated in. Find someone who’s also poly, don’t traumatise monogamous folks. You don’t need to cope with the pain you’re causing because there must be NO pain for your partners in the first place.
Leave them so you all can find your own happiness.
Really enjoy this podcast ❤ 🌈
thank you so much! hope you keep following along with our other episodes xo
They are back 🎉 all three of them
Hell yeah 💕
I don't think I'd ever veto anyone, but then I remember my mother has no limits lol that deserves a veto
obviouslyyy you were flirting in the last episode hahahaha
Teehee 🤭
Hierarchy may be necessary for stability. Let's be honest, people are not always healthy or safe and sometimes it takes a minute to figure that out. Sometimes the wife if 15 years will be able to see serious red flags that the man won't see. If there are children involved, stability should be the thing at the top of the hierarchy.
Fair enough. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer but rather what works for the individual(s) involved
me and my partner got together with the intention to be Polyam. We talk about it from time to time to just make sure we on the same page but neither of us have other partners yet. We are both new to it, me having begun to explore over a year ago and him just having been not dating at all the last year or go but otherwise not meeting others with the same interest.
It’s good to take it slow and not rush into anything as well as continue to keep that consistent check-in with your partner. I hope it all works out and wish you a long healthy relationship 💕
Don't do it, samira.
I would love to see you guys make a video on asexuality
@@R4hRAh_ coming this Thursday!
Does anyone know any good polyamory forums. I’m breaking here and need some advice. Nothing bad is even happening I’m just struggling to trust so much with quite a unique situation my partner is in :((
Why is Karbon so nervous being around Yaz the entire episode aarrggghhhhh
You’d feel nervous too 👉🏼👈🏼
I dooooo
WOW! That is all I can say.
Hi.
I was wondering if polyamory is easier for bi or gay couples because they can share partners where straight couples can't.
I'm asking this for couples that are already confident with their emotional relationship to reduce variables and because you already talked about that in your video.
If it is easier for bi or gay couples, is there something straight couples could do to get a similar advantage or if it's not, can you tell me what would make the thought of an extra partner harder rather than something to be excited about please?
I was also wondering what would be the reason for asking an existing partner to not be around when taking someone home to have sex with rather than ask them to join in and why you would go out with partners separately rather than spend time with multiple partners at the same time assuming they get on ok since the purpose of polyamory is to be with everyone you want.
Thanks for reading and sorry that I'm asking so much.
Hi! great questions, thank you for your comment. In general, you and your partner no matter your sexualities may not have the same type and you may not have a sexual attraction or romantic connection to your metamore. Secondly, everyone being attracted to everyone isn't necessarily a requirement to have group sex together either. For example lots of straight m/f couples hookup with other straight m/f couples. So yes, both of you being bi or gay may increase the probability that you're attracted to each other's partners but it doesn't guarantee it. Currently in our relationship (Emily & Karbon) we're both working on forming really loving platonic friendships with our metamores before moving onto anything else. Sometimes your motivation for group sex can be that you want to fulfill the sexual desires of the person you love most.
For your second question. There are different relationship structures as Yaz laid out in this video. People who are exploring dating together as a throuple, may be more inclined to only date all together. For many others, they are interested in forming separate relationships independent of their other partners. so they date separately but may often hangout as a group because it's easy to form loving friendships with your partner partners. There's no road map for polyamory. It all comes down to what feels right to you and your partner(s).
@QueerCollective thankyou so much for talking to me.
I really appreciate it.
I've been wondering a couple of these things for a while since a previous relationship.
Well, back in the day there was a saying, “It’s called polyamory not polyf*ckary.” Back then polyamory referred exclusively to fidelitous loving and romantic relationships that included more than two people. Everything else was called “free love” or swinging or lifestyle, or just an open relationship. Now all of that and more is called poly and there are new terms like anarchy roughly free love, hierarchy roughly lifestyle.
Have you ever had a friend group where one person grated on your nerves? How about a friend group with a manipulator? One creating drama? Poisoning friends against each other? Or just that one person who is always denigrating towards you or another friend? Ever had a friend with support needs, but your new friend is an ableist? Ever had a friend that started dating someone toxic, but they just couldn’t see it? Or a friend that kept falling for narcissist love bombing?
Now change the word friend to lover or partner.
Are you demi, but still need or want emotional intimacy every day? Do you dislike feeling left out?
Your mileage may vary.
so good ty for facilitating this
Thanks for watching 💕
Trying to make sense of this before a date with someone. A red flag for me and maybe not for ya’ll on the left which is totally fine, however I just feel compelled to say that I personally feel it’s problematic that Carbon’s relationship was opened after a year of Their partner not um, adequately performing bedroom tasks. Was that a conversation going in to possibly amend that before opening?
-Hate From Australia ❤
Which part are you referring to? Karbon has never had an open relationship except for the one she is now, and that happened after 6 years together. Nothing to do with being inadequate in the bedroom. All other examples in this video are hypothetical and made up. No need for hate?
I wish I knew how to spell that
I'm a bit confused by the hierarchy aspect of this talk, where Yaz explains it as a social condition the people create, when hierarchy's happen regardless of social conditioning. Like for instance, the hierarchy is happening right now, as Yaz is a guest on the show who speaks with authority. In this situation, Yaz is at the top of the conversational hierarchy. If someone came into the room with far less experience on these subjects, the group would put that person at the bottom of the hierarchy on these topics. They may not call it that, but that wouldn't change the fact that it would be happening in real time.
I think the particular scenario here creates authority over a subject matter based on the guest's knowledge of said subject rather than it being a social hierarchy and an exercise of power. Interesting thought!
Writing a contract seems like a giant red flag to me. Humans are complex and dynamic, and circumstances change. It seems like a recipe for resentment if someone goes outside those agreed rules. It is essentially putting a restriction on freedom and liberty, and doesn’t approach the relationship with unconditional love. I say this as a person in a long-term polyamorous relationship, who has experienced all these bumps in the road you describe.
I think it’s important to know that agreements can/do change as desires and boundaries change. It’s not set in stone (or shouldn’t be) but can be a helpful tool to understand the other person’s parameters
we need more dating and sexy advice 🫦
loved the jealousy part. so important to think about it
Glad you enjoyed it!