Shallowing Is Stupid
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- Опубликовано: 15 мар 2024
- Shallowing is stupid. In this video we take a deep dive on shallowing the golf club. Riley and TJ go over what parts of the body are used to make the golf club shallow naturally without manipulating the golf cub too much.
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Important clarifications here on “shallowing.” We’re happy to answer any questions that you have!
What is the best way to train this motion. lead side bend. still not seeing the move TJ is demonstrating
Message for you both from Germany. I was a 50 year old 12 handicapper. After a severe neurological disease (Guillaume Barre) I am a 55 year old dead man walking again. And after watching every video of you guys my swing looks better than ever before! And I am back on the course. And I like to say: Thank you so much!
Holy smokes! So friggin happy for you! First off congrats on managing your health, happy you’re able to play! And so happy you’re hitting it well while out there! Let us know if we can help you in any way!
100% facts! This is the biggest gap in golf instruction, and the problem that no one wants to talk about is WHY coaches don’t get more specific…it’s because they don’t know themselves! They just regurgitate what has been taught since the beginning of golf. The detail is the reason I hold Elite in very high regard when it comes to golf schools. Keep up the great work, gentlemen.
Thanks so much man!!
RUclips golf “instructors” are like the media. They ALL latch on to a word or phrase and spit it out in unison. Hated shallowing and the thot of dropping my arms to my side lol. Great video guys!!!
Fantastic! Glad you enjoyed! Hit them well ❤️
I was glad to hear TJ say his preference through impact has changed from chest rotation to managing the hit. I think this is an excellent evolution of how you teach your system.
“Managing the hit” I like that!
Another great video lesson ! Would you in your system recommend the rib sway shift after P3 if you stop at P5 so I can slow the swing down ?
You guys give some of the best slowed down and descriptive instruction available to learn from !, thank you and much appreciated !🇨🇦
@@Bradman2623 fantastic! So ideally we see the drop and pressure shift from P3-P4, then rib sway from P4-P5 because of the lead hips movement and the bouncing of the spiral lines.
I scapt retract on purpose and sent Tyler in a video he got me right. I was purposely retracting at the top but it was getting my trail elbow stuck behind my body.. always love y’all’s videos just such a easy way for me personally, to learn.
Fantastic! Love that learning process my man!
Week 7 is going really well. Still continuing to improve every range session. Wiper drill was huge eye opener. Learning how to get the club to fall behind without making a big loop with the hands and arms was huge! My coach for the last year was having me loop to get the club shallow and behind. Working the wiper drill, now I realize I can make the club take that trajectory without getting my hands and arms stuck behind me! Another 3 mph on the driver. Biggest improvement was the contact today.
Very nice man!
Stupid good. Finally, biomechanical info that clarifies all the insane golf coaching clichés and ambiguities. Now this seasoning is making awesome sauce. Rock on!
Thanks so much bro!
You guys are teaching geniuses! You have solved the golf swing! Thank you very much!!!
You’re the best! Thank you for the kind words!
Big respect for calling out the lazy buzz word coaching that's been infecting this game for far to long. Keep killing it boys!
Thanks my friend!
I know you guys are to young to know but Lee had major back issues including surgery the fact that he returned to pro golf after is amazing . To look at his beautiful rhythm ( sequencing )is always a treat
Yes, he had four major back surgery’s but the jury is still out on whether that was from his golf swing or other factors. Always difficult to ascertain… the majority of injuries in the back come from L-spine extension and L-spine side bend based on numerous studies in the game 🙏
I love the slow , descriptive instruction you guys in all your videos!,
Would you in your system teach the rib sway before stopping at top or sway p3 -p5 and stop ?
Thanks again you guys are the best out there !, much appreciate!🇨🇦
Definitely prefer that rib sway between P4-P5 🙏 appreciate the kind words ❤️❤️
Good stuff. Right now, I'm trying to turn off years of arm rotation through impact and turn on body rotation. I now have to learn the proper wrist motion that will provide the energy for the strike.
Fantastic! Always fun to build!
Amazing! Well said. I thought it for years
Right on!
In my mind I think of body swingers (Koepka) and arm swingers (Phil). The difference to me is the stability of the face through the ball on the body swinger. Flat release vs roll release. Less timing of the face.
What you guys are teaching is the body swing, but arms need to be involved, correct?
I like the phrase "stability of the [club] face" . I think "roll release" is sort of confusing, and a better term would be "sweeping release" or "deflected release", wherein "release" is that point at which the golfer frees the club before striking the ball by uncocking or unhinging the wrists. Just my 2C :)
Awesome video guys! Riley made a passing reference there to some of the insights that are now being provided through Hackmotion. It would be great to hear your take on that whole discussion in a future video (for nerds like me at least!!!). Keep up the good work gents
We’re definitely gonna cover this!
I am guilty of chasing "shallowing". My recent (4 years) journey to shallow the club started with more consistent contact and lower scores, but lately (last two years) my contact consistency has gone down and scores have come back up. I have won two out of the last three club championships against players with similar handicaps (5 to 10). This is a two-day tournament which allows me to find my swing, but when I play in one-day tournaments or skins with our group, I struggle. I am guessing you have heard this story with other players. I love the videos, I have watched them all, multiple times. I tried visit you in Gilbert, but our travel plans just didn't allow me time. I welcome any advice. I also hesitate to make lesson plans with you because I love the videos so much That I worry if it isn't with one of the two of you, the teaching might not be the same. On my next trip to Arizona, I will for sure come see you. One more question, if I am also watching other instructional videos, will I get crossed up with different ideas (maps)?
Thanks so much for the kind words and we would LOVE to work with you! And, all of us coaches at Elite Coach under the same umbrella/methodology. We also have a wonderful virtual program if travel is difficult for you. We are also located in three states (CO, AZ, and NC) so whatever state works best for you for in person sessions can also potentially help.
In regard to watching other coaches on RUclips, do it! Just understand what you are looking to do in your golf swing and why. That way you have a filter for movement and sequencing match-ups!
Hit them well and let us know how we can help!
Great tip there. To add on, I noticed that if my sternum passes that point beyond an inch ahead, it usually results in either hitting it phat or toe side.
I wish you guys would come to Dayton, Ohio, and put on a golf clinic. I would love to learn from you, but I don't have the luxury to travel. Love the videos! I've been binge watching them. I'm going to try this in my golf net out back. Wonderful content and channel
We’d love to if the demand was there!
How long is the chest the engine and when do the arms actively hit ?
The chest is the engine the entire swing, the arms “hit” roughly p5.5-8.5
Thanks a lot, I would have thought that the chest drives until the impact situation and then the arms overtake and lead the chest into the finish.
this is great i love it❤
Thank you 🙏
There is a ton of misinterpretation by us mere mortals. They see the necessary body movements you and others describe and do nothing but those movements all the way through the finish. They overdo everything. Now their hands and arms don’t move. It’s a disaster. Every favorite player they see on tour is moving their hands way earlier and way more than us. I can’t wait for more from you guys.
My son tends to have a 4-7 in to out path. He plays to +2 fighting big draws and hooks. Any help to neutralize his path would be greatly appreciated! This video exposed the wrong things we have been chasing! Thanks in advance!
Keep coming back to this video, and have shown it to soo many.
Side bend into P5 creates that swallowing look. It helps to keep the shoulders slightly closed at the start to then allow an explosion of power (for me) as I rotate my lead side lats around and away from target. Also my feel is arms are along for the ride only because I’ve been guilty of pulling them down at the start of transition.
Love all of this and especially love that you are able to play with it dependent upon your own tendencies! High level stuff Matt!! ❤️❤️
@@elitegolfschools 🙏🏻 thanks to all your help gents 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@@elitegolfschools I’ve always been a player suffering from an excessive inside path, hands pull down (fake/false shallowing) leaving me to early extend and flip the hands. Cue wides left and right 🤯
A lot of content out there is about slicers of the ball and mainly deal with over the top patterns. Trust me nothing more destructive then and excessive inside path you can’t catch up to.
I’m a victim of the 2D instruction magazines gave during the 2000’s. When all you see were stills of the great golfers you were trying to copy. Trying always to achieve those positions on the page but not ever actually understanding the dynamics of how to get there.
You fella’s explain things in 3D and demonstrate in a way that my brain can compute and visually understand.
Scratch golf for me isn’t far away for the first time in 20+ years, not since my teens have I been so positive about my future golf.
Exciting, keep doing what you’re doing fella’s it’s helping thousands 👏🏻👏🏻
@@The_sunday_lout so incredibly excited for you!!! Please please PLEASE keep us posted with your game. We’d be honored to help in any way we can
@@The_sunday_lout wonderful! Love hearing it!!
Hey Riley/Teej…what are you’re thoughts on internal rotation of the lead arm and its relation to shallowing? In the Arm Action video, Riley references this as an active action in p4-p5. I recently started working on this move, hit the range and video taped myself - it’s the shallowest I’ve ever gotten the club, and my release is the lowest and ‘leftist’ I’ve had. But a bit of a gap between arm and chest, and I hit quite a few more shanks if I improperly timed it. Thanks again
@@tjcurran6041 absolutely happens! And everyone is a bit different here. For each player they must recognize what act balances their body and club out. However, the movement that we prefer in the spiral fascia is what can inevitably produce the desired result out of the arm line leading to internal rotation of the lead humerus in transition 🙏
@@elitegolfschools understood thank you EGS
@@tjcurran6041 yeah man! Keep us posted!
Well done, as everything you come up with. I like the snake move very much!
Feels good too!
It’s exactly why players have to be coached as to their individuality and from a further coaching point of view, we have to elicit and discover a player’s optimum learning state - visual ,physical , auditory etc then tap into that
All about learning and correct application 🙏❤️
Really love the way you proceed! A question; do you use "Hackmotion" in your teaching, and if you do, do you have any preferred shape of the graph(s), or will this just be individual preferences? Thanks again! 😊
We just recently started using Hack Motion and will be using it in one of our next videos 🙏🙏
This was illuminating. I’m definitely guilty of trying to “lower” my arms or let the club head fall backwards while trying to turn through the ball. Just causes shanks.
Yep!!
Is Homer Kelly’s TGM principles antiquated(loading and unloading power accumulators 423 and 4123)?
Have you done a video explaining the positions P#?
We have a couple but P stands for position. P1 address, P4 top of swing and all others explain different levels to ground
when you drop do you drop in the trail hip then move to swing while both hip will move . Or you drop right into the front hip when you feel weight in left thigh then swing?
Pressure will move into the lead foot between P2 and P4. Then rip!
Good stuff boys
In a prior video you mentioned when arms fire they swig level post drop and bend trade…level to what? Ground? Torso?
Perpendicular to torso. Level hit ❤❤
Now it makes sense!
🙏🙏🙏
Your comment about the abduction/adduction motion with the arms through the hit really got me!
Tried to isolate that movement by laying flat with the back on the floor and boy!! Not really a lot of movement before you really have to rotate as well (unless you want to end up really across with your arms witch feels horrible) so I really get that the rotation will follow.
However, I noticed that Im also actively lowering my arms (closer to the body), and I guess as such lowering the hands, in that motion across the body. Probably got that from the drill "extend the trail arm" (not from you guys). But it got me wondering, is there any lowering of the arms going on when they move across the body or should it be purely ab/ad-duction?
Love your stuff, its just an endless series of eye openers! 😍
Wonderful question! For almost all players there is some amount of arm lowering/shoulder extension. However, most overdo that action and thus don’t have the necessary ‘hit’ from the ad and ab-duction movement. This, we look to explain the pelvic drop and across movement of the arms to level most players out
@@elitegolfschools Im definitely in the camp of overdoing it, so that feeling of ab/ad-duction certainly gives me a much more solid feeling of hitting through impact! Really great advice, much thanks (still almost a meter of snow here in northern Sweden so plenty time to learn new maps before the season starts 😅) 🙏
@@JohanNordlund fantastic! And we’re in the same boat here in CO! Just got 26” here! ❄️
@@elitegolfschoolsI feel like a lot of peoples issues come from overdoing things they see or hear. A lot of people either don’t realize or think about why pro players may be working on certain feels in their swings and what they are attempting to accomplish with that feel.
@@jonathonsissom6655 yes! Exactly! That’s the difference between intended and actual movement
Hi
Should the club approaching impact be inline with the right forearm and when club is level with the ground be inside the hands from down the line?
This seems to be very common with almost all top level players.
Are these checkpoints important?
Definitely doesn’t have to be in line with the right forearm. That is based quite a bit on the amount of chest rotation at the strike. Definitely prefer to see the club either dtl or inside the hands at P6 though 👍
Could you guys do a video on why you hook the ball and how to stop it. I cant get rid of these hooks and I am probably one more pull hook away from selling my clubs😞
Well done gents!
Thanks bro!
Shallowing ruined my long game, and I haven’t got I back consistently. If I drive it well, I play well. So frustrating!
I hear you brother!
What is the full video please
@@baptmry3951 this is the full video… ❤️
When I try this and all the spiraling of left ribs, I sh*nk 80%, the other are thin weak fades and tops. What am I doing wrong? Obviously video feeback would help, but what do you think it could be?
I asked about leveling in your video "basic" and watched lifting the arms to understand forces and more of the arm action. Still struggling about leveling as it applies to the ab/aducting motion. Could you detail this leveling action you often mention.
Thank you!
The ‘level hit’ that we discuss is a perpendicular strike to the T-spine through the strike, rather than a vertical strike. Ab and ad-duction compared to shoulder extension through the strike 🙏
THANK YOU!
In your system is that a must to try achieve between P5.5 and P8.5?
Cheers
@@user-gh6uj3vb1t just want to limit that lowering. If you lose, chances are you will tumble. Not always true like with Scottie but mostly the ruke
@@elitegolfschools I'm hearing (shaft perpendicular to spine) is generally a limit for as low the hands should go .
thank you !
So good to hear from you.
@@user-gh6uj3vb1t love it!
Never gave a damn about shallowing, just trying to fix my hip rotation. 😂
Meanwhile, I just watched your “Never Slice Your Driver Again” video which states the exact opposite: “Actively shallow the shaft during transition.”
So confusing. It would help a great deal if you clarified between the two motions.
@@gnikrehposolihp main item in organizing the club is the structure of the arms. In this particular video you’ll hear us talk about how and why the COM of the club should fall back on the plane but the handle should not drastically fall under the plane due to improper arm movement. The two videos come from the same space, just two different ways to get there ❤️❤️
To actively hit with the arms , how much tension do you have in arms and hand grip ? This is what I struggle with . My tendency is out to in path .
Sometimes more tension than you might think! Just at the right time. Relax, stretch, release 🌀
I think the missing piece for me that this video addressed is the act of shallowing naturally happens in the mini squat at the transition stage. Getting to the top of the backswing may not get the club on plane ("shallow) yet, but squatting down and letting the club head weight move naturally down gets you "shallow." From that point, you're ready to rotate the hips/shoulders and release the arms and swing. I think this allows me to release the club earlier and not cause me to hold the awkward shoulder rotation for too long before releasing. I need to try this when I get home after work. Thanks for another great video.
Fantastic! It’s all about the right match ups to feel right in your action 🙏
I just played a terrible round because I felt like I overcooked the shallowing idea; I was intent on pelvic drop and shallowing; just too much!!!
@@brucefrancis2301 all the right amount!
Great vid as always. I think shallowing is the worst buzzword in teaching.
Definitely a buzzword! Catches the attention
Oh well
👍
I’ve always felt that shallowing was a natural result of body movements. Over doing it will just be a recipe for bad golf
100% agree
Ah man I've been trying to shallow the wrong way this whole time.
How long to rebuild a new swing from the ground up? 😂
Definitely don’t need to do that! Often times one simple pattern altercation can make all the difference!
First off, love these videos I have learned a lot in a short amount of time using this method! Second, as someone who comes over the top a lot in the golf swing and doesn't get the club under plane consistently. Is that over the top action caused by early chest rotation and not enough drop to start the downswing? Should I be focused on dropping the pelvis more to start the downswing so I can try and come more from the inside?
bow left and shallow right happens naturally
In the right map, it should!
Good video, but Lee Trevino had at least 3 back operations
Four, lots out there on whether it was due to his action or other factors 🤷♂️
@@elitegolfschools
Appreciate the reply! I've heard him say getting struck by lightning was a big factor in his bad back. Just interesting choice of swing model given he has had massive well documented back issues. I really enjoy your videos though. The concepts you explain around directing the mass of the club in relation to the backswing and through swing are really helpful. Thanks.
@@richardblankley8943 thank you so much and yes, definitely a difficult talking point because athletes to have to deal with injury… just want to prevent as much of that from happening because of the actual golf swing lol 😂 However, guys that have had back problems traditionally create that issue from one main issue: L-spine extension and L-spine bend. Stay away from extension to help prevent injury 🙏
A better term is shaft lean
Even that can be misinterpreted at times
It is a stupid term for sure! It should be flattening or flatten.
U talk to much with pseudo medical terms . Boring. I am a doctor.
Right on Doc! Appreciate the wonderful message. What exactly are the pseudo medical terms that you’re referring to??
This is so disappointing, after the countless videos you guys have done, TJ is changing his swing. It's now not an emphasis on the body turning hit but now an arms hit.
What next?
lol, so sorry you are disappointed! The fact is that the arms do fire and the body does support that act. However if you just drag on the arms in the forward action there is little chance for speed or precision! Also, our preferred pattern hasn’t changed. We are simply explaining the arms and hands in the swing in these videos, when they fire, and the movements they make ❤️❤️🙏
I'm lol right back. You can't go on stroking his you know what after each shot for ages and then come out and he comes out and says : he's changed his swing.
And you're back stroking it!
@@OfCourseICan my man, swing it any way you want brother! All the power to you. Hope you hit it well ❤️🙏
Respect: I hope you get my point.
@@johnlyons3607 is this the same person as OfCourseICan?