I got to play with one of these at a Sig demo day at a local range. When I saw the Rattler I though it looked super cool and had to try it out, it was suppressed for the demo day. After 3 rounds tears were coming down my face from the gas. I thought to myself, man, that is one cool gun but damn do I hate it.
You see, I tell the truth and people call me a basher. But wait, Sig had it silenced when according to them it wasn’t designed to be silenced? OMG! Could Sig be confused? 😂
I run mine with silencerco hybrid and I do 30 rnd mag dumps with binary trigger subs and supers and don’t have any gas in my face. If I do a mag dump on my buddy’s mk18 full auto with his issued yhm can I can’t keep my eyes open before the mag is empty. The rattler in my case is much less gas than d.i. Perhaps because that Sig titanium can looks to be one of the highest volume cans I’ve ever seen, and the omega 9K on bcm is prob the lowest volume can you can run 300 supers with. , Maybe that’s why it’s so gassy for you?
MAC nobody ever said it can’t be run suppressed. It works flawlessly suppressed. It’s main purpose was to by small for certain operators who needed small. When you first tested rattler you compared cheap subsonic 300 to supersonic 9mm and complained how weak the rattler is for its intended role. You seem to believe the whole reason 300 blk out exists is to be quiet. It’s supposed to match 7.62x39 performance in an ar platform as well as be subsonic capable. People tried to inform you on IG and apparently you know All and aren’t interested in learning something new.
03cobratech I guess you didn't read my exchange with the Sig rep. He insisted I run it without the silencer because it wasn't designed to be used that way, which is how he excused the horrible gas in the face with a can.
One thing the Rattler can do for Special Ops is be quiet at the beginning of an ambush with a suppressor and then, when it's no longer necessary to be stealthy, instantly switch mags to SuperSonics and have a thousand foot-pounds of energy. You can't do that with 9 mm.
Long vid but so far I agree: SIG is at the very least pushing the envelope with practical gun innovation. Maybe they just have to dial it down a bit and focus on QC for a year, but they've been on a roll with the MHS and MPX and 365, and now this... Time to polish up the gems and stop digging SIG!
Thanks for this review Tim. Every other review I saw in the Rattler said it was flawless. My home built .300 blk pistol only cost a third of what the Rattler does but runs flawlessly suppressed with the Recce 7 I purchased thru Copper Custom. The “secret sauce” on mine was using the Armageddon Tactical gas buster charging handle with the vent hole feature. Hardly any gas at all and it’s a pistol length di gas system. It’s my favorite gun.
I have a sig sauer mcx rattler and I use a sig sauer 338ti qd can with sig 220 grain ammo with no problems to date and no complaints with gas in my face. Just my experience so far.
One thing I’ve learned about having an SBR and a SOCOM Mini Suppressor, is that trying to have as small of a package as possible doesn’t equal being “quiet”. But rather just at the brink of hearing safe.
I can't afford the Rattler or the MPX pistol, though they're great guns. Nevertheless, I prefer your longer videos; they're on topic and packed with great information. Please make more such videos. Thanks.
Hi MAC, I come from a country that prohibits firearms ownership completely. The only time I shot is when I was in compulsory military service, and when I traveled to United States. I just wanted to thank you for not only the information but also the context behind it, without making your content too long winded. Great job making these videos.
Love my MPX and I've also got a Springfield Saint AR Pistol that I like a lot. Was considering a Rattler, but after watching this, decided I was good with what I already have in that category. This seems to be no better than my MPX, and potentially not as versatile. Plus, the whole "gas in the face" thing is enough to slow my excitement. Thanks for a VERY thorough review.
Great video Tim. You should try the dedicated 300 blackout magazines from Magpul and Lancer. I have tried them both with my Barrett Rec7 and an Aero precision build and with sub sonic‘s or supers they are 100% reliable. And I know the whole point with 300 blackout was to be able to use regular 556 magazines but if you look at the shape of the overall bullet it’s always been a compromise.
Great video. Thanks. I know the military use these suppressed. They probably use OSS baffleless suppressors. Not as quiet and heavier but very likely much less gas in the face. It's also possible to have custom-made ammo that does a complete burn in such a short barrel that may produce less gas. There may modifications and/or differences in military supplied Rattlers. So much we don't know and are never told. I always wanted one of these before watching this video. My mind is completely changed. AR-15 all the way. I can't thank you enough for a great and honest review. Tim, you are number one for doing things like this!
This is the best Rattler video I have seen so far, thank you so much for investing so much time and energy. I Think after having seen this I would rather go with the Virtus in 7,7 inch barrel.
Very nice little platform. I should've picked one of these up years ago when the Scheels where I live used to carry them. Hopefully I'll get one someday.
I'm surprised your radar doesn't have the ability to save bullet weight profiles to make it easier to go from one bullet weight to another. Or maybe it does, I've never played with one before. Cool video though, thanks Tim!
i was on the fence about a 9mm mpx because everyone complained about the gas.. i rented one at the local range when they finally had one available.. had zero gas issues. decided to buy one..
MAC, thanks for touching on the two biggest issues with the MCX and SIG's biggest issue. The MCX could benefit from having all the holes in the receiver closed and from losing about a pound. All of SIG's firearms would benefit from better quality control.
I pointed out the front end being open because no one has ever addressed it that I’ve seen. It’s a glaring issue for any military service weapon, which is who they’re marketing these towards. Sadly, our military doesn’t properly test things anymore....
I have a rattler set up with the Sig suppressor as well. I have had very good luck using Silencerco Harvester 220 grain subsonic ammo and can run on the supersonic side of the valve which greatly reduces the gas blow back. Give it a try, I think you will like it.
I’ve been waiting on a review of the Rattler from you since I first saw it on the cover of G&A Suppressor back in January. I knew I could rely on you to provide a no-nonsense, unbiased opinion before I plunked down $2400. Great looking package BUT, it seemed to good to be true. Sig seems to have changed their position on the issue of whether or not the gun was developed with primarily suppressed usage according to the article in G&A,unless somebody is just taking journalist liberties over there.“ The Rattler isn’t just an SBR with a suppressor attached, it is a suppressed system that had suppression as the primary objective from the outset.” Sounds like the MCX/ MPX all over again.The gas blowback is one of the main reasons I decided against the MPX and went with the Evo thanks to Tim. A quiet gun with very little blowback makes it so much easier to teach people to shoot who are put off by the noise and burning retinas. I love my Sig handguns but will stick to my Aero .300 pistol.
My favorite firearms expert and my friend on Robinson XCR Forum. L-rd bless you always. The pistol is a beautiful piece of engineering and machinery. The carbon fiber barrel is expensive to manufacture. It is the ferrari of the pistol industry. Excellent and thorough review, I truly enjoyed.
Silencers enhance accuracy. The gasses leaving the barrel pushing the rear of the bulllet during transitional ballistics are dramatically reduced leading to higher consistency of POI. They also add a few fps as they add to barrel length.
Bradon Higgins, I manage a class three FFL and oss cans are great and I know two of my own but I have noticed that if you want to take advantage of the super quiet report of a suppressed 300 blkout then a traditional baffle stack can is the way to go. Yea gas in the face sucks but it’s just one of the trade offs of shooting a suppressed. But good thinking!
LeftThumbBreak , idk if you have shot a rifle with an oss can but I will do my best to explain. When u shoot with an oss (helix or elite are the two I own) at the shooters ear it is very very pleasant. That’s bc all of the gas and essentially noise and report is leaving out of the front of the can and downrange. So to the shooter or anyone behind the rifle, it’s awesome. You get zero blowback or gas to the face, which after owning and shooting suppressors for the last 20+ years is weird and amazing sensation at the same time. But with the 300 blkout after shooting rifles with conventional suppressors for the last 5 years you get accustomed to getting gas in the face but everything (forward and behind) the gun is muffled,making the report of the firearm very quiet. With the oss can, I personally feel that the report coming out of the can and going down range is louder then a traditional can because all the gas is coming out of the front of the suppressor. So even though at the shooters ear it technically quieter then a normal can, the report at the front of the oss is creating more noise then usual compared to a baffle stack style suppressor. I hope that makes sense or helps explain my experience with subsonic 300 blkout and oss cans. I love my oss cans and would not trade mine for anything but honestly when I shoot 300 aac subsonic ammo I always put either my griffin armament Reece 7 suppressor on or my old aac sdn6 30cal suppressor. When I shoot anything that breaks the sound barrier...it’s oss helix time all day long!!!! Good luck to you
For cleaning the upper part of the upper try using bore brushes of the right size along with the bore swabs to get rid of the dirt after the brushes lossen it all up.
It would have been nice to see the advantage with the longer barrel on your BCM vs the short Rattler. I love my 10.5 in 300 I built a few years back. It's by far my favorite gun to shoot. Although my 9mm pcc is a really close second. The ability to switch from the near silent subs to a 2200 fps super us just awesome. I love the 300 blk.
I think I'd rather have a 9mm PCC like a scorpion or an MPX with cheaper ammo (usually), smaller profile and the same suppressed energy and velocity, as well as being able to share ammo with my handguns.
Morris Smith the developer of the honeybadger, (Kevin Brittingham) used to work for AAC where he made the concept of the honeybadger, he now makes it under his own company “Q”. So Remington and AAC wouldn’t produce it he went and did it himself.
I thought we would have seen a Honey Badger by Q pistol before we saw a Sig MCX Rattler video but my hats off to you bro. Right on. Open minded I like it
You do a great job mate. Just goes to show the MCX virtus does not need the forward assist and wear plate. Hoping the MCX Virtus with no forward assist and wear plate will have a chance at the US militarys new standard issue rifle. If they decide to stick with a fixed barrel for a standard issue rifle Or stick with the removable barrel has yet to be seen. A bayonet with wire cutters would be a must. But they seem to be heading in the right direction thankfully.
@29:35 you can see him loading *sub-sonic* ammunition into a magazine which he then loads & shoots @29:58 and gets a face full of gas. So, your point is moot, this gun is overly gassy to the shooter with a can on it.
@@vincedibona4687 again it depends on the can being used,advancements in design are curving that issue,time to upgrade your can...deadair nomad check it out.
For spending damn-near an hour I would have expected a little more clarity on this issue. This is literally the only review of this pistol I have seen or read that mentions this being an issue, let alone carrying on and on about it. So this video tells me two things: 1) the guy needs to spend more time editing out extraneous trash and more time writing a script; and 2) he should have spent half the time looking into the "issue" that he did complaining about it.
Chandan Kumar get one. I have an mpx, mcx and just got a rattler last week. My MPX is by far my favorite gun to shoot. Had it a few years now and thousands and thousands of rounds suppressed and unsuppressed. Damn. Now I want to go shoot.
I know it's not optimal due to the barrel length but I would like it if it were chambered in 5.56. In the state I "currently" reside in (R.I) we aren't allowed to own any NFA items so I never got into 300blk and I've been told 300blk is a great rnd to run suppressed.....☹
Maximus Joseppi I have plans to make a move to S.C within the next 5-7 years. Once I get there I will surely get into the surpressor game. Other than our no NFA item laws we don't have restrictions such as magazine capacity limits or the "featureless rifle" bullshit. But I want to live in 100% free state
Louis Clemento Someday soon! R.I as everyone must know is a "blue state" and it's loaded with liberal fools. But there is alot of people here that love their firearms. This past winter we had a hearing at the state house because of an introduced "assault weapons" ban so both pro & anti-gun people showed up to be heard, the amount of pro gun people heavily outweighed the gun grabbers.... The way I see it is every time there is a new mass shooting the left will try to push their agendas by spreading fear. We just can't get complacent and gotta keep fighting
Rifle Shooter Channel Comparing bullet weight and velocity mean nothing without accounting for bullet shape. Compare a 5¼ ounce baseball with a 5¼ ounce dart. One will penetrate better, one will maintain velocity down range better. Guess which one.
yea, but the entire point of .300 black isn't just the ability to fire subsonic rounds, it's the ability to _switch_ between full power(well, intermediate cartridge power) rifle rounds, and subsonic rounds with just a mag change. PPCs can't do that(at least nowhere near as effectively as .300blk can.)
The Sig Rattler is pretty simple. With a can, shooting subs, turn the gas to the minus (valve to the left). Shooting without a can and subs loaded to a good pressure, you can still shoot on the minus. Most of my rounds I use the minus gas setting, unless I load really low pressure rounds. As long as you use minus setting, I get barely any gas blowback with a can. Sig defensively made the Rattler for shooting with a can, in 300 BO. That's why they pin and weld the FH with .556 barrel. .556 is a no go with a can, unless you want to sand blast your can. .556 won't burn enough powder in that little barrel, a lot of un burnt powder flying through like a sand blaster.
What 5.56 barrel on the rattler? I have not seen a release of a 5.5" 5.56 barrel Shortest was 9" for the legacy and now 11.5" with the Virtus. I know they spoke and marketed a 5.5" 5.56 and then it seemed thought better of it likely once they tried to do extensive testing with it. Where they made a mistake IMO was not offering the 9" in Virtus as that became very popular in Legacy. People with legacy 11.5 with the nearer to breech gas block have gone so far as to have them cut down to 9". That can not be done with Virtus version as they moved gas port further away from breech; which needed to be done as there was way too advanced timing (early unlocking) with the longer barrels and closer port. They were trying to much early on to stream line everything with part manf duplication. All using the same port location and gas rod length setup etc regardless of barrel length. Simple physics should have told them that was far from ideal. But with so many other manf as well as themselves offering 9" versions it seems silly they did not offer it with the 9" BO version as well as 5.55. Balllistically of course there is good support for why 11.5 is the line but many people are willing to take the hit and plenty of Cans are approved for 9" 5.56 barrels. For my 5.56 I will be using a OSS can anyways. I love the quick change feature and function of the MCX Virtus in terms of its handguard. Makes it so quick to change my config. I can go from 6.75 SRD3338tiQD suppressed with a long HG for extended grip control and then switch in seconds to 6.75 with PWD HG length for maximum compact PDW with KM stock folder is the same OAL as the rattler with 5.5 barrel with its retractable stock fully compressed. That is a nice tight package with a much better cheek weld and solid feel when extended compared to the dual guide rod retractable stock extended. No real down side as both can still be easily fired by a righty in the stored position. It would be cool if Sig would make a right folding stock for lefties but that does not effect me. I will keep a kit in my truck for it. It will have different HG, barrels and QD mounted optics Each HG will have light and stop or FG for its specific setup. So its as quick as slide it on till it clicks and its GTG. Pull a lever swap and lock lever and I have a optic for the scenario. To me now that you can get all the barrel lengths in barrel kits as well as the short PDW, carbine, and rifle HGs for the standard Virtus upper there is no need for the Rattler and its dedicated receiver as it takes a different HG for it to mount flush otherwise there is a gap as the Rattler receiver is shorter by 3/8" IIRC.
Thanks for doing this, MAC! I can't believe that in today's manufacturing capabilities, that SIG would even consider using an "Accu-Wedgie" for covering up pure laziness. Really??? They can't produce something to tighter tolerances than that? LMFAO! And, thanks for pinning Thor odious. What a monumental dumb-ass! :)))
*Assembling. But you can totally buy high quality cheap ARs too. Really, they are fungible components, with the exception of trigger assy, barrel, and the gas block. Gucci bags don't actually do a better job of holding stuff.
@@TinkerTailorSoldier1I bought mine for $700 from armalite with the 1:7 twist barrel, since then I have seen the price of AR-15s go as low as $500 for an M&P one at my local gun shop. AR-15s are reaching the lowest price points I've ever seen. I remember when a pre-ban piece of crap AR-15 with banged up milsurp furniture would run you $1200.
Remmy 220 Sub Ammo actually runs 975fps out the 5" barrel suppressed. I was impressed! S&B 200g Subs ran 912fps for me. The Sig 125HP actually runs 1850fps. Neither is bad for 5". 1650fps from Aguila 150fmj. Good numbers and accurate in mine. Running a Dead Air SandmanS. Running an 180 SST at 1024fps....pretty quiet and less $$$ bullets.
Rifle Shooter Channel Just saw it. Stillbirth is put of their control. A picture is maybe for the memory or the child. I don't think he's a "sick fuck" for it. But, I do agree with you about posting it. I wouldn't do it but, to each is own.
I originally thought the same thing, yet after years of researching suppressor development, I found different manufaturer's used different type baffles, which some would cause more back pressure ( quieter though ) . It has a lot to do with all of the components... Ammunition ( powder and Bullet ) some of the newer baffles are are much steeper 70 degree, which make a quiet can but if not vented along the stack cause a lot more back pressure... and gas back in the face... Your BCM also has a 9mm suppressor, which are usually using a .400 opening in the baffles ( Less back pressure ) for a .308 projectile...
Mac have you tried using "Oakley SI Ballistic M Frame® Alpha Operator Kit" I have them for motorcycle riding and they block out a lot of road dirt. They might work for gas blowback.
Sig is manufactured here in New Hampshire in Exeter. The state motto is "Live free or die" if that explains a thing or two about sig fighting for our rights =]
Great video! Very informative about the Rattler. I'm kind of glad I didn't bother with a 5" barrel in the end for .300blk. I disagree with one point in my opinion, though: that .300blk was really intended to be shot suppressed. While it owes its existence to .300whisper, AAC and other adopters specifically pushed and advertised it's ability to shoot supers along with subs out of the gate, in fact, the Whisper was being pushed to supers before it made the switch. I believe thinking about it like that limits the gun and cartridge in the end. Its similarity to 7.62x39 really gives the gun some legs, and causes it to be worth the effort. I personally love supers out of my DI 6", and barely bother with Subs. Often I refer to it as the "7.62 in the streets, 9mm in the sheets," rifle round. The super loads dominate when they're still suppressed, running hot and consistent. The subs turn the gun into basically a niche 9mm, and really limit the gun if you think about those as your dominant load. They're a backup round that you keep a mag of for niche usage, again, in my opinion. Sure there may be arguably better rounds in super loads your opinion, but none offer the flexibility of the .300 in the end. I just think about my AR pistol like I would a 7.62 Krink, and find it has the same utility. Few claim 7.62x39 as the best rifle round, too, but it excels in some places. "Better to be good at many things than master of one" is a good .300blk motto. Enjoy it your preferred way, though, and happy shooting!
It was developed primarily for suppression. It is not a competitor to 7.62x39. If I want a small powerhouse I’m not using .300BLK supers. I’m using 6.5 Grendel or even 6.8SPC that has real potential as greater distance. Yes, it’s nice to be able to jump back and forth and the ability to run supers in special applications is nice, but if your primary goal is to run supers, don’t get .300BLK. That’s a poor decision. Now, with subs it’s a spectacular round that’s without a peer.
Military Arms Channel, thanks for your insight Tim! I agree those calibers definitely are better at longer ranges, and if I want range I wouldn't be taking something ballistically similar to x39 anyways, but I was never looking for range in this round. Despite it "not being a competitor" to x39, it shoots about the same (with a better BC) out of similar barrel lengths (with better bullet construction). Again, I think the subs are what end up being the niche round at the end of the day for the platform, as the performance difference shows (trading DBs for ft-lbs), and works extremely well for eek-ing a lot of performance out of a short barrel. Yes, its ability with subs is impressive, but that's not where its appeal ends for me. I'm excited to see more advances in the round in the future! I think at the end of the day you and I have two completely different mindsets about .300blk and will probably have to agree to disagree because of that! I'm certainly jealous of that Rattler, though!
Also, as evidence to x39 similarity, I would like to note your velocity video with the mini draco with a 7" barrel was only pushing ~10fps more than I got the last time I chrono'd with my 6" .300blk.
I have a question about .300 Blackout subsonic. My agency's ERT is considering moving to .300 Blackout from the 5.56 NATO in their Colt C8 Carbines. What is the benefit of subsonic .300 Blackout over a pistol calibre carbine? Say 9 mm 147 grain or .45 ACP suppressed?
I got to play with one of these at a Sig demo day at a local range. When I saw the Rattler I though it looked super cool and had to try it out, it was suppressed for the demo day. After 3 rounds tears were coming down my face from the gas. I thought to myself, man, that is one cool gun but damn do I hate it.
You see, I tell the truth and people call me a basher. But wait, Sig had it silenced when according to them it wasn’t designed to be silenced? OMG! Could Sig be confused? 😂
It had the same can you had on yours too. Man I wanted to love it.
I run mine with silencerco hybrid and I do 30 rnd mag dumps with binary trigger subs and supers and don’t have any gas in my face. If I do a mag dump on my buddy’s mk18 full auto with his issued yhm can I can’t keep my eyes open before the mag is empty. The rattler in my case is much less gas than d.i. Perhaps because that Sig titanium can looks to be one of the highest volume cans I’ve ever seen, and the omega 9K on bcm is prob the lowest volume can you can run 300 supers with. , Maybe that’s why it’s so gassy for you?
MAC nobody ever said it can’t be run suppressed. It works flawlessly suppressed. It’s main purpose was to by small for certain operators who needed small. When you first tested rattler you compared cheap subsonic 300 to supersonic 9mm and complained how weak the rattler is for its intended role. You seem to believe the whole reason 300 blk out exists is to be quiet. It’s supposed to match 7.62x39 performance in an ar platform as well as be subsonic capable. People tried to inform you on IG and apparently you know All and aren’t interested in learning something new.
03cobratech I guess you didn't read my exchange with the Sig rep. He insisted I run it without the silencer because it wasn't designed to be used that way, which is how he excused the horrible gas in the face with a can.
One thing the Rattler can do for Special Ops is be quiet at the beginning of an ambush with a suppressor and then, when it's no longer necessary to be stealthy, instantly switch mags to SuperSonics and have a thousand foot-pounds of energy. You can't do that with 9 mm.
+1 for the Paul Harrell reference.
I missed it. tag?
The 4:25 mark, he used Paul's phrase "yeah-but" and credits him on the screen.
Long vid but so far I agree: SIG is at the very least pushing the envelope with practical gun innovation. Maybe they just have to dial it down a bit and focus on QC for a year, but they've been on a roll with the MHS and MPX and 365, and now this... Time to polish up the gems and stop digging SIG!
Perfect summation.
Thanks for this review Tim. Every other review I saw in the Rattler said it was flawless. My home built .300 blk pistol only cost a third of what the Rattler does but runs flawlessly suppressed with the Recce 7 I purchased thru Copper Custom. The “secret sauce” on mine was using the Armageddon Tactical gas buster charging handle with the vent hole feature. Hardly any gas at all and it’s a pistol length di gas system. It’s my favorite gun.
Ok seriously...I was in the bathroom for this whole video and now my legs are asleep. Awesome video as always, Tim!
ryeguymac dude really in the bathroom the whole time you need some more bran in your diet eat them Wheaties
Jeremy heintz - more like I was hiding from the wife and kids...but true I do need more lol.
ryeguymac lol yeah I know what thats like lol got 2 kids myself
FINALLY!
Been searching for chrono and ballistic tests for since it came out.
MAC, thanks for coming through, as usual. Keep up the awesome work.
Thanks man.
I have a sig sauer mcx rattler and I use a sig sauer 338ti qd can with sig 220 grain ammo with no problems to date and no complaints with gas in my face. Just my experience so far.
One thing I’ve learned about having an SBR and a SOCOM Mini Suppressor, is that trying to have as small of a package as possible doesn’t equal being “quiet”. But rather just at the brink of hearing safe.
I can't afford the Rattler or the MPX pistol, though they're great guns. Nevertheless, I prefer your longer videos; they're on topic and packed with great information. Please make more such videos. Thanks.
Hi MAC, I come from a country that prohibits firearms ownership completely. The only time I shot is when I was in compulsory military service, and when I traveled to United States. I just wanted to thank you for not only the information but also the context behind it, without making your content too long winded.
Great job making these videos.
Love my MPX and I've also got a Springfield Saint AR Pistol that I like a lot. Was considering a Rattler, but after watching this, decided I was good with what I already have in that category. This seems to be no better than my MPX, and potentially not as versatile. Plus, the whole "gas in the face" thing is enough to slow my excitement. Thanks for a VERY thorough review.
26:18 "My eyes are open and my arms are flapping!" THAT brings back memories!
Great video guys. You answered questions I didn't even think of ! $2300 ? Just another one I'll have to admire from afar.
Glad to see you carrying the PPQ. You can’t find a better pistol IMO. The trigger and ergos are amazing.
I thought only Navy guys took big hot blasts to the face, not Marines
Alan Day lmao.
They're stuck on the same boat a lot of times, you can only fight off so many sailors
why does the Navy have Marines on their ship? Sheep would be too obvious.
ROFLMAO
Hahahaha that's why Alan the marines have thier name tape on thier back pockets for the naval officer fucking from behind
Tim, once again you explained things very clearly and prove it out in the "lab." Great video. You and Jason keep up the great work.
Great video Tim. You should try the dedicated 300 blackout magazines from Magpul and Lancer. I have tried them both with my Barrett Rec7 and an Aero precision build and with sub sonic‘s or supers they are 100% reliable. And I know the whole point with 300 blackout was to be able to use regular 556 magazines but if you look at the shape of the overall bullet it’s always been a compromise.
Great video. Thanks. I know the military use these suppressed. They probably use OSS baffleless suppressors. Not as quiet and heavier but very likely much less gas in the face.
It's also possible to have custom-made ammo that does a complete burn in such a short barrel that may produce less gas.
There may modifications and/or differences in military supplied Rattlers. So much we don't know and are never told.
I always wanted one of these before watching this video. My mind is completely changed. AR-15 all the way.
I can't thank you enough for a great and honest review.
Tim, you are number one for doing things like this!
A close to 1 hour video? Instant like
This is the best Rattler video I have seen so far, thank you so much for investing so much time and energy. I Think after having seen this I would rather go with the Virtus in 7,7 inch barrel.
Magpul has a pmag designed specifically for that
Very nice little platform. I should've picked one of these up years ago when the Scheels where I live used to carry them. Hopefully I'll get one someday.
The new 45 vs 9mm debate is whether Rattler is 2 syllables or 3.
You pronounce the "t" twice?
Ra ttl er 3!! I am firmly in my camp. More syllables = mo stop ping po wer.
It’s rad ler here in Texas.
Clap it out, it's two syllables
Bryan Biltoft it's 2. Rat. Ler. / Not rat. T.ler.
So much passion-aggression in this video. Don't think I've seen MAC this agitated about people's malarkey in a long while.
Great video as always.
Will wait for the 6th or 7th generation when they eventually finalize it
Thanks for the detailed analysis of this platform. Really enjoyed it and good info to make buying decision.
Finally someone else that thinks the Accu-wedge is complete and utter junk!
Super solid video. Yes, it was longer; but I appreciated the thoroughness. Great work!
I'm surprised your radar doesn't have the ability to save bullet weight profiles to make it easier to go from one bullet weight to another.
Or maybe it does, I've never played with one before.
Cool video though, thanks Tim!
i was on the fence about a 9mm mpx because everyone complained about the gas.. i rented one at the local range when they finally had one available.. had zero gas issues. decided to buy one..
Great info as always 🇺🇸
Mrgunsngear are you going to test the Rattler in 300 BLK? If so, please use your Sandman S and see how the gas is.
Love the attention to detail in this video.
I’ve been excited for this!
Hobson Family me too
Love that Paul Harrell Shoutout at 4:30!!!!
My pocket snake is rattling with excitement.
Buddha23Fett ha! Lol
Ew.
Parkinson's boner?
Some women pay extra for that.
Most important part of this video 48:26 when I was comparing vs Daniel Defense DDM4 PDW
MAC, thanks for touching on the two biggest issues with the MCX and SIG's biggest issue. The MCX could benefit from having all the holes in the receiver closed and from losing about a pound. All of SIG's firearms would benefit from better quality control.
I pointed out the front end being open because no one has ever addressed it that I’ve seen. It’s a glaring issue for any military service weapon, which is who they’re marketing these towards. Sadly, our military doesn’t properly test things anymore....
@@Militaryarmschannel Does the front part of the recoil spring assembly plug the opening or is it still open to mud, etc.?
Thanks for the review Tim! I’ve had my eye on that thing for a while!
Last time I was this early you still had to cheek your pistol brace when on video
I have a rattler set up with the Sig suppressor as well. I have had very good luck using Silencerco Harvester 220 grain subsonic ammo and can run on the supersonic side of the valve which greatly reduces the gas blow back. Give it a try, I think you will like it.
Does the Virtus 300 Blk also have the same issue with gas being blown directly in your face?
I’ve been waiting on a review of the Rattler from you since I first saw it on the cover of G&A Suppressor back in January. I knew I could rely on you to provide a no-nonsense, unbiased opinion before I plunked down $2400. Great looking package BUT, it seemed to good to be true. Sig seems to have changed their position on the issue of whether or not the gun was developed with primarily suppressed usage according to the article in G&A,unless somebody is just taking journalist liberties over there.“ The Rattler isn’t just an SBR with a suppressor attached, it is a suppressed system that had suppression as the primary objective from the outset.” Sounds like the MCX/ MPX all over again.The gas blowback is one of the main reasons I decided against the MPX and went with the Evo thanks to Tim. A quiet gun with very little blowback makes it so much easier to teach people to shoot who are put off by the noise and burning retinas. I love my Sig handguns but will stick to my Aero .300 pistol.
I’d love to see him compare this with the cmmg.300
My favorite firearms expert and my friend on Robinson XCR Forum. L-rd bless you always. The pistol is a beautiful piece of engineering and machinery. The carbon fiber barrel is expensive to manufacture. It is the ferrari of the pistol industry. Excellent and thorough review, I truly enjoyed.
Would it be any less gassy with the OSS suppressors with less back pressure?
I have the mcx virtus and have both barrels and love my gun its one by far my favorite. Zero issues
Do you still have one of the OSS Suppressor ? that might help with eating all that gas.
Silencers enhance accuracy. The gasses leaving the barrel pushing the rear of the bulllet during transitional ballistics are dramatically reduced leading to higher consistency of POI. They also add a few fps as they add to barrel length.
Loved this long video, it's reminiscent of your older stuff.
I wonder if the OSS suppressor would help with gas
Bradon Higgins, I manage a class three FFL and oss cans are great and I know two of my own but I have noticed that if you want to take advantage of the super quiet report of a suppressed 300 blkout then a traditional baffle stack can is the way to go. Yea gas in the face sucks but it’s just one of the trade offs of shooting a suppressed. But good thinking!
What actually happened with the OSS cans on the blackout?
LeftThumbBreak , idk if you have shot a rifle with an oss can but I will do my best to explain. When u shoot with an oss (helix or elite are the two I own) at the shooters ear it is very very pleasant. That’s bc all of the gas and essentially noise and report is leaving out of the front of the can and downrange. So to the shooter or anyone behind the rifle, it’s awesome. You get zero blowback or gas to the face, which after owning and shooting suppressors for the last 20+ years is weird and amazing sensation at the same time. But with the 300 blkout after shooting rifles with conventional suppressors for the last 5 years you get accustomed to getting gas in the face but everything (forward and behind) the gun is muffled,making the report of the firearm very quiet. With the oss can, I personally feel that the report coming out of the can and going down range is louder then a traditional can because all the gas is coming out of the front of the suppressor. So even though at the shooters ear it technically quieter then a normal can, the report at the front of the oss is creating more noise then usual compared to a baffle stack style suppressor. I hope that makes sense or helps explain my experience with subsonic 300 blkout and oss cans. I love my oss cans and would not trade mine for anything but honestly when I shoot 300 aac subsonic ammo I always put either my griffin armament Reece 7 suppressor on or my old aac sdn6 30cal suppressor. When I shoot anything that breaks the sound barrier...it’s oss helix time all day long!!!! Good luck to you
Great gouge man! I got a SIG Rattler in NFA hell and an OSS Helix QD-Titanium on order. Looking forward to trying the combo out
@@thesoundofsilence1860 can you do a video? I am thinking of getting the oss and rattler.
Really enjoyed your ballistic comparison between 300 sub and 9mm.
Wait... A SIG video from MAC that doesn't end in an abysmal failure? Tim, you must've sold out... Haha just kidding, great video as always
They finally offered me ONE MILLION DOLLARS! (pinky in the side of my mouth). 😂
They probably did. Lol
They were tossing German hookers through his bedrooom window.
That Gatorade placement, though... *evil laugh*
For cleaning the upper part of the upper try using bore brushes of the right size along with the bore swabs to get rid of the dirt after the brushes lossen it all up.
Wow..........Nutn style full length videos.........
And less rambling too lol
It would have been nice to see the advantage with the longer barrel on your BCM vs the short Rattler. I love my 10.5 in 300 I built a few years back. It's by far my favorite gun to shoot. Although my 9mm pcc is a really close second. The ability to switch from the near silent subs to a 2200 fps super us just awesome. I love the 300 blk.
I think I'd rather have a 9mm PCC like a scorpion or an MPX with cheaper ammo (usually), smaller profile and the same suppressed energy and velocity, as well as being able to share ammo with my handguns.
Same
Top notch review. Glad I found MAC
we need a honeybadger comparison video.
Well except it never made it to production
Morris Smith q is currently producing the honey badger in multiple configurations.
Thanks I did not know that they picked it up from AAC
Morris Smith the developer of the honeybadger, (Kevin Brittingham) used to work for AAC where he made the concept of the honeybadger, he now makes it under his own company “Q”. So Remington and AAC wouldn’t produce it he went and did it himself.
I thought we would have seen a Honey Badger by Q pistol before we saw a Sig MCX Rattler video but my hats off to you bro. Right on. Open minded I like it
If you started with the 2300 bucks I would still have watched but wouldn't have been thinking about buying one.
Brian Wood I assembled a VERY nice 300 blk pistol for 1500$ buy ing all the cool stuff. It’s hard to pay 2300$ when top of its field is like ~1200
K Bob I did as well built a 300 with a 6” barrel DI not gassy, light weight and I love it!!
Wait 3-5 years. They'll come out with a newer model and then you can get this one for like $1500 or some shit haha
You do a great job mate.
Just goes to show the MCX virtus does not need the forward assist and wear plate.
Hoping the MCX Virtus with no forward assist and wear plate will have a chance at the US militarys new standard issue rifle.
If they decide to stick with a fixed barrel for a standard issue rifle
Or stick with the removable barrel has yet to be seen.
A bayonet with wire cutters would be a must.
But they seem to be heading in the right direction thankfully.
@38:50 NO TIM, NO ALUMINUM IN THE ULTRASONIC CLEANER!
Now we need a Rattler LT version of this to see how it compares!
Maybe it’s gassy with supers because you left it on subsonic gas setting??? 🤷🏻♂️
Yep, I caught that too!
@29:35 you can see him loading *sub-sonic* ammunition into a magazine which he then loads & shoots @29:58 and gets a face full of gas. So, your point is moot, this gun is overly gassy to the shooter with a can on it.
@@vincedibona4687 again it depends on the can being used,advancements in design are curving that issue,time to upgrade your can...deadair nomad check it out.
For spending damn-near an hour I would have expected a little more clarity on this issue. This is literally the only review of this pistol I have seen or read that mentions this being an issue, let alone carrying on and on about it.
So this video tells me two things:
1) the guy needs to spend more time editing out extraneous trash and more time writing a script; and
2) he should have spent half the time looking into the "issue" that he did complaining about it.
@ hikeskool
yup, I am wondering if this rattler upper is worth picking up? I got a 10.5" LMT
when i use the GI metal mags i don't have the feed issues i do with the polymer mags even with a full 30 round load . 220gr subs or 110gr supers
oh man, this is a g i r t h y video
thicc
I have waited for this for a long time. Thank you :)
Never heard of OpticsPlant 1:28
Love your channel MAC....always excellent level of detail.
I am thinking about the mpx
Chandan Kumar get one. I have an mpx, mcx and just got a rattler last week. My MPX is by far my favorite gun to shoot. Had it a few years now and thousands and thousands of rounds suppressed and unsuppressed. Damn. Now I want to go shoot.
I was too but, I settled with the CZ Scorpion.
MPX costs about $6k++ in my country.
The Patriot holy shit where are you from
its really a matter of pistol caliber VS rifle caliber and which you want
Possibly a very great home defense weapon. Compact, great ballistics, suppressor friendly..I think I just sold myself on it.
The Gas looks horrendous.
o_o i was just planning on purchasing a rattler for weeks and now MAC covers it #feelsgoodman
I know it's not optimal due to the barrel length but I would like it if it were chambered in 5.56. In the state I "currently" reside in (R.I) we aren't allowed to own any NFA items so I never got into 300blk and I've been told 300blk is a great rnd to run suppressed.....☹
Maximus Joseppi I have plans to make a move to S.C within the next 5-7 years. Once I get there I will surely get into the surpressor game. Other than our no NFA item laws we don't have restrictions such as magazine capacity limits or the "featureless rifle" bullshit. But I want to live in 100% free state
Good luck brother, I escaped from RI 40 years ago, never going back.
Louis Clemento Someday soon! R.I as everyone must know is a "blue state" and it's loaded with liberal fools. But there is alot of people here that love their firearms. This past winter we had a hearing at the state house because of an introduced "assault weapons" ban so both pro & anti-gun people showed up to be heard, the amount of pro gun people heavily outweighed the gun grabbers.... The way I see it is every time there is a new mass shooting the left will try to push their agendas by spreading fear. We just can't get complacent and gotta keep fighting
Rifle Shooter Channel Comparing bullet weight and velocity mean nothing without accounting for bullet shape. Compare a 5¼ ounce baseball with a 5¼ ounce dart. One will penetrate better, one will maintain velocity down range better. Guess which one.
yea, but the entire point of .300 black isn't just the ability to fire subsonic rounds, it's the ability to _switch_ between full power(well, intermediate cartridge power) rifle rounds, and subsonic rounds with just a mag change.
PPCs can't do that(at least nowhere near as effectively as .300blk can.)
The Sig Rattler is pretty simple. With a can, shooting subs, turn the gas to the minus (valve to the left). Shooting without a can and subs loaded to a good pressure, you can still shoot on the minus. Most of my rounds I use the minus gas setting, unless I load really low pressure rounds. As long as you use minus setting, I get barely any gas blowback with a can.
Sig defensively made the Rattler for shooting with a can, in 300 BO. That's why they pin and weld the FH with .556 barrel. .556 is a no go with a can, unless you want to sand blast your can. .556 won't burn enough powder in that little barrel, a lot of un burnt powder flying through like a sand blaster.
I agree , I don't have that problem with my Rattler, I will put up a video when I get around to it .
What 5.56 barrel on the rattler? I have not seen a release of a 5.5" 5.56 barrel Shortest was 9" for the legacy and now 11.5" with the Virtus. I know they spoke and marketed a 5.5" 5.56 and then it seemed thought better of it likely once they tried to do extensive testing with it.
Where they made a mistake IMO was not offering the 9" in Virtus as that became very popular in Legacy. People with legacy 11.5 with the nearer to breech gas block have gone so far as to have them cut down to 9". That can not be done with Virtus version as they moved gas port further away from breech; which needed to be done as there was way too advanced timing (early unlocking) with the longer barrels and closer port. They were trying to much early on to stream line everything with part manf duplication. All using the same port location and gas rod length setup etc regardless of barrel length. Simple physics should have told them that was far from ideal.
But with so many other manf as well as themselves offering 9" versions it seems silly they did not offer it with the 9" BO version as well as 5.55. Balllistically of course there is good support for why 11.5 is the line but many people are willing to take the hit and plenty of Cans are approved for 9" 5.56 barrels.
For my 5.56 I will be using a OSS can anyways.
I love the quick change feature and function of the MCX Virtus in terms of its handguard. Makes it so quick to change my config. I can go from 6.75 SRD3338tiQD suppressed with a long HG for extended grip control and then switch in seconds to 6.75 with PWD HG length for maximum compact PDW with KM stock folder is the same OAL as the rattler with 5.5 barrel with its retractable stock fully compressed. That is a nice tight package with a much better cheek weld and solid feel when extended compared to the dual guide rod retractable stock extended. No real down side as both can still be easily fired by a righty in the stored position.
It would be cool if Sig would make a right folding stock for lefties but that does not effect me. I will keep a kit in my truck for it. It will have different HG, barrels and QD mounted optics Each HG will have light and stop or FG for its specific setup. So its as quick as slide it on till it clicks and its GTG. Pull a lever swap and lock lever and I have a optic for the scenario.
To me now that you can get all the barrel lengths in barrel kits as well as the short PDW, carbine, and rifle HGs for the standard Virtus upper there is no need for the Rattler and its dedicated receiver as it takes a different HG for it to mount flush otherwise there is a gap as the Rattler receiver is shorter by 3/8" IIRC.
Thanks for doing this, MAC!
I can't believe that in today's manufacturing capabilities, that SIG would even consider using an "Accu-Wedgie" for covering up pure laziness. Really??? They can't produce something to tighter tolerances than that? LMFAO!
And, thanks for pinning Thor odious. What a monumental dumb-ass! :)))
I'm curious about the spitzer projectile handgun calibers (5.7mm and 4.6mm) and stack up to 9mm, 10mm, and 45 ACP.
Sooooo an undersized ar15 for 3 times the price
And a nightmare to shoot due to the gas in the face, yeah kinda sucks for like 90% of use.
* ~4.6 times the price.
GunFun ZS you’re buying some cheap ARs
*Assembling. But you can totally buy high quality cheap ARs too. Really, they are fungible components, with the exception of trigger assy, barrel, and the gas block. Gucci bags don't actually do a better job of holding stuff.
@@TinkerTailorSoldier1I bought mine for $700 from armalite with the 1:7 twist barrel, since then I have seen the price of AR-15s go as low as $500 for an M&P one at my local gun shop. AR-15s are reaching the lowest price points I've ever seen. I remember when a pre-ban piece of crap AR-15 with banged up milsurp furniture would run you $1200.
Remmy 220 Sub Ammo actually runs 975fps out the 5" barrel suppressed. I was impressed! S&B 200g Subs ran 912fps for me. The Sig 125HP actually runs 1850fps. Neither is bad for 5". 1650fps from Aguila 150fmj. Good numbers and accurate in mine. Running a Dead Air SandmanS. Running an 180 SST at 1024fps....pretty quiet and less $$$ bullets.
Is this nutnfancy?
Imran Escobar 😂
Imran Escobar it can't be. No stupid stickers and knives and kid's toys being reviewed. Actual a lot of useful content.
Rifle Shooter Channel Why would his wife be holding a dead baby? Did I miss something?
Rifle Shooter Channel Just saw it. Stillbirth is put of their control. A picture is maybe for the memory or the child. I don't think he's a "sick fuck" for it. But, I do agree with you about posting it. I wouldn't do it but, to each is own.
Lol
I love long video format!
It's really informative. I would be grateful, if you continued this way!
Outstanding information and demonstration. I will be buying the BCM.
I love you're referencing Paul Harrell. I would do many, many things to see you two do a video together
I originally thought the same thing, yet after years of researching suppressor development, I found different manufaturer's used different type baffles, which some would cause more back pressure ( quieter though ) . It has a lot to do with all of the components... Ammunition ( powder and Bullet ) some of the newer baffles are are much steeper 70 degree, which make a quiet can but if not vented along the stack cause a lot more back pressure... and gas back in the face...
Your BCM also has a 9mm suppressor, which are usually using a .400 opening in the baffles ( Less back pressure ) for a .308 projectile...
Mac have you tried using "Oakley SI Ballistic M Frame® Alpha Operator Kit" I have them for motorcycle riding and they block out a lot of road dirt. They might work for gas blowback.
Yesssssss! I've been debating between rattler and the regular mpx. Being only 30 minutes from their HQ. Sigs are big deal here. Thanks for this video
Great video of love 300 blk out you guys should make some more cheap guns videos
I love my rattler and use it unsuppressed. The rifle has very little muscle blast, and I have no problem using it at night.
Sig is manufactured here in New Hampshire in Exeter. The state motto is "Live free or die" if that explains a thing or two about sig fighting for our rights =]
Very comprehensive and well done
23:15 - is your magazine specifically for 300black out? I haven’t yet loaded mine with 30 rounds of sub. Thanks for the GREAT review!!!!
A most thorough and excellent review. Greatly appreciated. T.Y..
MAC saves Monday again!
Great video! Very informative about the Rattler. I'm kind of glad I didn't bother with a 5" barrel in the end for .300blk. I disagree with one point in my opinion, though: that .300blk was really intended to be shot suppressed. While it owes its existence to .300whisper, AAC and other adopters specifically pushed and advertised it's ability to shoot supers along with subs out of the gate, in fact, the Whisper was being pushed to supers before it made the switch. I believe thinking about it like that limits the gun and cartridge in the end. Its similarity to 7.62x39 really gives the gun some legs, and causes it to be worth the effort. I personally love supers out of my DI 6", and barely bother with Subs. Often I refer to it as the "7.62 in the streets, 9mm in the sheets," rifle round. The super loads dominate when they're still suppressed, running hot and consistent. The subs turn the gun into basically a niche 9mm, and really limit the gun if you think about those as your dominant load. They're a backup round that you keep a mag of for niche usage, again, in my opinion. Sure there may be arguably better rounds in super loads your opinion, but none offer the flexibility of the .300 in the end. I just think about my AR pistol like I would a 7.62 Krink, and find it has the same utility. Few claim 7.62x39 as the best rifle round, too, but it excels in some places. "Better to be good at many things than master of one" is a good .300blk motto. Enjoy it your preferred way, though, and happy shooting!
It was developed primarily for suppression. It is not a competitor to 7.62x39. If I want a small powerhouse I’m not using .300BLK supers. I’m using 6.5 Grendel or even 6.8SPC that has real potential as greater distance. Yes, it’s nice to be able to jump back and forth and the ability to run supers in special applications is nice, but if your primary goal is to run supers, don’t get .300BLK. That’s a poor decision. Now, with subs it’s a spectacular round that’s without a peer.
Military Arms Channel, thanks for your insight Tim! I agree those calibers definitely are better at longer ranges, and if I want range I wouldn't be taking something ballistically similar to x39 anyways, but I was never looking for range in this round. Despite it "not being a competitor" to x39, it shoots about the same (with a better BC) out of similar barrel lengths (with better bullet construction). Again, I think the subs are what end up being the niche round at the end of the day for the platform, as the performance difference shows (trading DBs for ft-lbs), and works extremely well for eek-ing a lot of performance out of a short barrel. Yes, its ability with subs is impressive, but that's not where its appeal ends for me. I'm excited to see more advances in the round in the future! I think at the end of the day you and I have two completely different mindsets about .300blk and will probably have to agree to disagree because of that! I'm certainly jealous of that Rattler, though!
Also, as evidence to x39 similarity, I would like to note your velocity video with the mini draco with a 7" barrel was only pushing ~10fps more than I got the last time I chrono'd with my 6" .300blk.
That video was great!!! TX Tim!
I’m glad you enjoyed it.
Keep up the good work mac
To run 220 or 230 gr 300 BLK suppressed in my P mags, I filed the rib at the front of the mag and eliminated the feeding problems.
I have a question about .300 Blackout subsonic. My agency's ERT is considering moving to .300 Blackout from the 5.56 NATO in their Colt C8 Carbines. What is the benefit of subsonic .300 Blackout over a pistol calibre carbine? Say 9 mm 147 grain or .45 ACP suppressed?
I find the 30rd GI mags work best for .300 sub loads. Obviously depending on the bullet shape.