In my opinion the plan was designed to succeed no matter which path the heroes took. Since he came up with the plan, Mephisto offered to be the first to confront (and likely be defeated by) the pursuing heroes in order to establish the trust of his brothers that his plan was not intended to trick them into an advantageous position over them. Remember that Andariel and Duriel, who had sided against the prime evils during the dark exile, were assisting them much to Cain's surprise, indicating an unexpected change in the schemes of the burning hells. If the heroes pursue Diablo, Baal finds Marius, recovers his soulstone, and goes on to assault Mount Arreat with his personal host of demons. If the heroes pursue Baal, Diablo likely will have enough support from the burning hells to gather their entire forces, march on the portal back to Kurast, and assault Mount Arreat. If the heroes split up and pursue both, they likely are defeated. I imagine canonically that it would've taken the combined forces of the D2 heroes to take down each prime evil, rather than just 1 or 2 heroes. Worldstone was still intact, so no nephalem yet to 1v1 the prime evils. Mephisto staying back to fight off the heroes guaranteed his brothers a head start on their individual paths, thus stopping them from being able to catch both brothers at once. The entire reason the lesser evils rebelled against the prime evils was because the three appeared to have abandoned the eternal conflict in favor of corrupting the mortals of sanctuary. All it would take for Diablo to unite the lesser evils would be for him to say, "Hey, we finally played our hand on this long con, we've got an active portal open waiting to bring us to Sanctuary, and once we get there we can launch a full scale assault on the worldstone chamber because the heavens aren't going to interfere in the affairs of mortals. Let's go do this." Azmodan and Belial would sign up in a heartbeat. Izual was already on board. I have no doubt that Diablo would've been successful. Not only that, but he would have had access to the combined forces of hell with which to assault Arreat, whereas Baal could only summon his personal retinue.
imagen if the player had been given a choice on witch one to fallow and still having losing either way like that! like fallowing diablo the easy path because you have only to deal baal and his army! fallowing baal is the harder ending as you have all of hell to deal with! and the less evil's! before get to Diablo! and givein a second choice... we then either have to go to hell destroy the 2 soul stones we have! know we have to destroy them! give diablo more time to raly his army and march! or if we didn't go to hell with Mafisto's and Baal's soul stones because we had to immediately tack of after Diablo! Giving him a Chace to tack there stone from use during the fight and corrupts to world stone more!
One thing I loved about diablo is how creative he is. Diablo always assumes he's gonna lose and he always plans for his defeat. when you think diablo is defeated, he isn't. diablo's plan always works around the possibility of his defeat.
While the players are trying to keep Diablo from winning, Diablo just kept himself from losing. Diablo's triumph, while it may take millenia, is inevitable.
This is some great storytelling, I never realized that you chasing Diablo was actually part of the Prime Three's plan. The hatred for Diablo may have been placed upon you by Mephisto during that encounter
now i want even more to see the new cinematics in D2R and how they will do Diablo head and his expression at that specific moment! Oh i hope they don't disappoint us..
"Not even death can save you from me!" I've always loved this line he utters right before he annihilates me! 😁 Diablo has always been my favorite boss.
The realization that he ain't talking about your death, but his. Think about it, why would he want anything to do with you after you're dead, or why would he imply that you're "safe" if you're dead, when it's him that will be killing you anyway?
While Tyrael trusting Marius seemingly didn't make sense, I always saw it as a Frodo-Gandalf thing (maybe the devs literally paying tribute to LOTR). Tyrael didn't want to be corrupted by the soulstone and he couldn't tell Marius to give it to a more powerful warrior because he wouldn't intervene to corrupt someone else.
Makes sense, Baal's soulstone was cracked which prevented it from fully containing his essence and allowed him to exert his will on his surroundings even more than the soulstones of his brothers. So I imagine that carrying Baal's soulstone would be even more damaging than carrying Mephisto's or Diablo's. You see in the D3 cinematics how the new horadrim have to carry the black soulstone with long poles, probably to avoid the intense amount of corruption from its presence (and that's a complete soulstone, not a cracked one).
My guess is Tyrael did that on purpose, since if he did get corrupted by the stone he'd be a weakling and pretty much easily disposable. Giving it to someone stronger like what happened to the warrior would've been a double whammy. It was the best possible bet he had considering his options, had he taken it himself he risked corrupting himself, basically giving the prime evils a fallen angel at their disposal.
He had no choice he was locked in combat with diablo who wouldn’t just let him leave and soon to be baal. The only person who could do anything was Marius, so tyrael entered his mind with magic and gave him instructions because whilst Marius wasn’t a shining hope he was his only option he had at that moment.
Awesome take as always! Mephisto probably amplified the hero's hate for Diablo during their encounter, though not that it needs amplifying in the first place considering the stuff the hero has gone through. Using Marius as bait for a weakened Baal makes logical sense. Baal wouldn't be able to prevent Tyrael from interfering like in the fight at the Worldstone Chamber (as per the Barbarian Ancients). I don't think that Diablo would lose to Azmodan+Belial though, because my impression upon seeing his forces in Act 4 is that his army is still formidable (he still has Izual and all his other lieutenants who show up in short notice during Diablo 3). But it'll probably be a stalemate.
@@DarkLOREDash pretty sure Az and Bel would be hesitant to fight Diablo considering, well, he's the *Lord of Terror* and all, and his personal power scale far exceeds that of them both, not just for being a prime evil.
or he could convince them telling them the jig is up the long con is over! and that the world stone was the goal all along and they just need the trick the angels and heavens in to not interring with sanctuary where it at! and now the way to the stone is wide open! the long con is at it end they can finale get and corrupt! in way that cant be undone! im sure Azmodan & Belial would be all over this! as the the big goal of the war is to get the world stone! it what they been fighting for! and the the reson they kicked the 3 out out of hell! was because they believed they lost sight of the war and the goal of the world stone! but now being told it in there grasp and no angels in sight to stop them! they might be all over this plan!
As others have said the "hole" in D2 is the way of the storytelling. We play through the eyes of the hero (who has no knowledge of where Baal goes before we kill Mephisto, and could easily assume he goes with Diablo), but we see the cinematics through the eyes of Marius and he knows only Diablo went to hell.
if you think about it. it's not the hero's fault. it's the people that has little info and Tyrael's fault. why is it his fault? because he made you think going after Diablo was more important rather going after something that's worse. and his fault on letting a weak human to destroy the soul stones. he could've go for the hero for help than two birds well be killed with one stone. I mean both him and the hero would've go back to defeat diablo at anytime after.
I think this also gives new meaning to mephisto cause when you meet him he tells your to late this could have had double meaning not only to diablo had his mission so did baal.
Tyrael explains after you kill duriel that he "is broken and the power that ties him to this world are fading," implying that he fought both Baal and Diablo long enough to allow Marius to escape.
@@DrJohnAZoidberg I wasn't contrasting new vs old. I was merely saying new as in "new to him". My favorite games of all time are Dragon Force, Iron Storm and Guardian Heroes on the Sega Saturn, lol.
What an interesting thought. And also a totally wonderful badass idea for a mod in the future of they ever decide to further the franchise... because let's be honest... diablo 3 was kind of a big let down and we would have loved a deeper dive into act 4 and the stories of the earlier diablo game(s)
Diablo 3 was a let down, at launch. They did improve the game dramatically. Diablo 3 went on to become a staple of the diablo franchise. Diablo 3 is different from diablo 2, no debate there. Still a goid game nonetheless.
@@Comatoast69 I didn't think the plot of the storyline was bad at all. What exactly was bad about it for you? The environment wasn't as "dark" as diablo, so I get that complaint. Of course diablo 3 is about endgame rifts and greater rifts, providing a near endless goal to achieve. Beats just doing Ba'al runs all day.
@@exisfohdr3904 I didn't say the gameplay loop was bad... you're 100% correct about rifts, greater rifts and bounties being more palatable than baal/andy/meph and lvl 85 area runs. The problem I have is the actual rewards system. Items have no VALUE in d3... when you can be kitted out in a starter set 4 hours into a league. Unique drops are so common they had to add ancient and primal items . Diablo 2 just felt... so much more rewarding to invest your time in to.
@@Comatoast69 I guess that depends on what you consider rewarding. Season play in D3 is meant to be a competitive event with a 3 month duration(typically). If the loot system workrd like D2, then it wouldn't be competitive. The "free" set isn't free, as it requires the player to complete specific tasks to u lock. Even then it is rarely the set/build you likely want. E en further, the stats are not going to be what you are looking for. You are looking for ancient gear so that you can augment. Augments require time investment to level the augment gems. Then theres the push. Pushing your character to the limits in greater rift content. A competitive person can easily find it rewardinh, especially when there is a leaderboard for all to see. It is definitely a different kind of rewarding, but rewarding nonetheless.
Why is this news? Imperius was tricked and taunted into killing Diablo, by Diablo himself, revealing the trap.. and now, same trick again. To hold evil at bay is to keep it in prison.
5:30 technically you failed the task at the end of Act2 when Baal was released; Mephisto released himself by corrupting Zakarum before even Diablo was out. I still don't know why these games aren't about Mephisto instead of Diablo...within the lore, it makes little sense which brother did which thing here - Baal should have stood guard in act 3, Mephisto return to hell to continue leading, and Diablo go to corrupt the stone...however given then dark wanderer aspect, switching Diablo and Mephisto would make sense, but given all we know from other media, Mephisto staying there was probably the most silly move considering how much he's manipulated everything else including Diablo and Baal in the past.
Don't you think it makes sense for Baal to chase for the worldstone given how crucial his soulstone seem to be in the corruption of the world stone? Do we know for a fact that Mephisto or Diablo would be able to corrupt it in the same manner? Since all three brothers are embodiments of different aspects, don't you think it plays into who does what? Is Mephisto's hatred crucial in pushing the heroes through the hell portal?
@@brianfantana2725 I imagine it is titled Diablo due to this creature being the human connection to this demon world and family, and still a main character.
It's not like we could choose not to go to hell. Remember that both Diablo and Mephisto managed to corrupt nearby people even while inside the stone. We couldn't just stay in the normal world while holding Mephisto's soulstone. Ya know what... his hatred probably made us go into the portal!!!
Yeah, and the risk of Diablo uniting the hells against Sanctuary (with an open hell portal just sitting right there for them to exploit for invasion) was a far greater immediate threat than an incomplete Baal running around the world, not really able to do anything of significance without his soulstone. And besides, Tyrael thought that Marius had gone through the hell portal, which would mean that a loose roaming Baal wouldn't even be able to do any real damage before his soulstone got destroyed at the hellforge by the heroes. So sending the heroes to pursue Diablo was the only real choice they had at the time.
I don't remember well, but did we have any indication before stepping into the Hell Portal that Baal wasn't following along with Diablo into Hell? We the players know that Marius saw only Diablo enter, but did any of the characters know that Ball stayed back in Sanctuary and left the Durance of Hate through some back door while we were so close?"
@@roymcdre9180 The portal sent the heroes to the pandemonium fortress, so I assume it would've done the same for Marius. But I don't think Tyrael was very clear on that point when giving him directions. But yeah, he would've had to sneak past Mephisto. Somehow, he was already stealthy enough to make his way through the durance of hate without being noticed, so I do give him points there. He might've pulled it off.
God damn it, dash! Now here i am thinking "i fucked up, i should have thought things through and instead i just danced to their beat! I failed sanctuary! Damn, cool video mate.
I’m surprised you guys went so in depth on this back when I played this game when it first came out followed by its expansion I was thinking in similar mind track that at the time Diablo was the greater threat since without his soul stone Baal was not as strong as he could be. After expansion release and playing it. I wondered if we were just going after Diablo while world stone was the three’s ultimate goal. I’m surprised my guess back then was not far off from the mark
Was Marius, carrying the Shard of Destruction, not expected to go to Hell though? Baal without the shard wasn't as big a threat, therefore the hero followed Diablo on the assumption they'd intercept the stone from Marius there. Instead, Marius kept the stone, failed to go through the portal, and played into Baal's hands as a result?
I remember talking with my brother and some of our friends back in the day, about how if you could go kill Baal first, you'd probably stop them from corrupting the world stone. Good to know we were right in track.
So...Diablo flashes tits while others do actually dangerous things? Yeah, that sounds about right. Tank, DPS and all that, huh! Regardless, I really think that D3 should've focused heavily on Az and Bel and finished the franchise somehow. Not everything needs 12 sequels and 6 prequels.
Eh, we've been killing Diablo since D1... it just wouldn't be a "Diablo" game if you didn't kill him at some point. We know the Prime Evils, especially Diablo, always have some way of eventually returning cooked up somewhere in advance, lol. That's part of the beauty of it.
Frodo: 'It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance.' Gandalf: 'Pity? It's a pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.' Frodo: 'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.' Gandalf: 'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides that of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, in which case you were also meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought.
The parody novel Bored of the Rings does a funny take on this. "He would finished him off, but pity stayed his hand. 'It's a pity I've run out of bullets...' "
Playing D2 back in 2000 after learning about D1's lore extensively, I always believed Mephisto - being the eldest and supposedly most cunning of the Three - was sending Diablo as harbinger of their return to wrest Hell back from Azmodan and Belial's control - and that we would be getting three quests related to this intended to set these two as future antagonists for the 3rd (and final game): 1 about Azmodan, 1 about Belial, 1 about the two linked to Diablo, ending with your arrival at the lake of fire... Sadly it wasn't like that. The way I see it, regarding. Baal. I think the heroes followed Diablo believing he _and Baal_ had escaped together based on Mephisto's words (you're too late, my brothers have escaped you!), and although they didn't know *Tyrael sure as hell DID ...* he likely contacted Natalya's order and used it as proxy to hunt down Baal. Tracking him for months only to caught up with him all too late, right outside the burning assylum we see at the end of act 4 (would've been nice to have this as an act4 map, in fact) Knowing of this, Tyrael bit his ethereal lip and said nothing to prevent internal struggles and diversions among the Heroes - hoping the Barbarians would stall the LoD long enough... they didn't. And while those were 2 somewhat justified mistakes he made, he then made an even bigger one... *he sent us home* (or did he, for some?) Instead of sending us back to Hell to finish off Azmodan and Belial.... boy what an idiot.
Very nice! Amazing how this went so under the radar.. Which makes me wonder how much of Diablo 4 will also be part of their gambit. And that begs the question what the point will be where we, the players break free of the plan.
I had that same thought in my mind for many years Diablo had no reason to go back to Hell. Only the player had to go there because the player had to destroy the soul stone.
and "hell" felled like another fake hell. like what happened with the 1st game. it really doesn't take you long to find him just like the 1st game. the demons there were not a big of a deal. both of those realms looked way to small to even be called hell. really think about that. when was the last time you ever heard of hell as a small place to hunt down a devil that they say is 7 rings down and the place is a size of a large planet or maybe even bigger. this "hell" we keeping walking into in diablo feel like a playground rather the real deal. I get the same feeling from diablo 3. the demons lords seem to like making fake hells to mass with people.
In D2 the Brothers are banished to the Abyss when killed. In Sin War demons respawn in Abyss while angels reborn from Crystal Arch, further fueling the Eternal Conflict.
Well , it's more interest story if D3 lore was the heaven try to wipe out sanctuary and the new heroes have to summon Diablo and his brothers back to sanctuary while have to kill the D2 heroes who now become tools of the angels . Then we have D4 as MOBA game , endless was between heaven and hell.
The game design and lore is so well crafted that even after 20 years were are still playing it and finding out hiden plot threads. Truly a masterpiece!
The main reason why nobody saw it coming is that the world stone didn't exist in the game's lore BEFORE the extension came out. On the contrary, i think this is a poorly designed lore. It's like a kid saying "No, i didn't lost because some aliens arrive and kill your king ! Check mate ! I won !" yeah, yeah, you won, go play with your legos, blizzard.
It's been many years and I was a young lad when D2 first released But I'm pretty sure act 5 was teased in game upon defeating Diablo, meaning it is possible that the world stone was already in mind when designing the game and story This was during a time when Blizzard did give a damn However I can believe that this announcement, made some 21 years later does seem like a cop out and a bit uneccissary. Even had we known then, the loot drops from Diablo are worth it
I think you have a few elements backwards. We as the nephalem have no idea where baal is by the time we find mephisto. From our point of view we would probably think that he had gone with diablo to hell. They were trying to get there after all. We probably think we got there just before Mephisto went through the portal. And goads us with that line of his. So as soon as we murder mephisto, we jump through the portal after the other 2. But really it was 1. The look back is too mephisto, not baal. As mephisto is being left behind as bait.
While it might have been the correct decision to focus on Baal I don't think it'd ever be possible simply because the Heroes, Cain and Tyrael probably thought that he'd gone with Diablo to Hell. The players obviously know that Baal stayed behind since we're shown that only Diablo enters the portal to Hell in the Act 3 end Cinematic but the Heroes, Cain and Tyrael has no way of knowing this. I believe Cain mentions in the end of act 3 that Baal probably followed Diablo and in act 4 Tyrael hypes it up as being the last battle against the Prime Evils. Also while it might have been a good idea for Tyrael to track down Marius I think he just prioritised defeating the Prime Evils over tracking down the soulstone. Who knows, he might even have started to track Marius down after the battle in Hell but was once again too late since Baal would've had a head start on him.
i think it would have be a loss either way! ball would get his his soul stone sooner get his army sooner! then diablo! rallying hell! but i think if we actually stopped to think about it as said "" wait what About the other brother Baal? wouldn't it be smatter to got after him, kill him, get his soul stone?"... that would have give diablo time to rally hell! lest though who still supported him and his brothers! by the time we get back to the portal he got what he needed! and maybe all ready on the moving and get to him would have been harder! now we have another chose if he has rallied them and made it out of hell! we have to fallow him or go to hell and destroy the 2 soul stone we have! witch would give diablo more time to move and tack the Mountain! Or rush after Diablo assume he made it out of hell! fast enough! witch we asume he did! we go over what would happen if didn't! in moment! so now diablo succeed because we when aft baal! again do go to hell and destroy! the stone give diablo more time! or go after him now with the other 2 stones in hand! possibly stopping him for tacking the Mountain! and possibly giving him the catch to to tack the 2 stone from us! to further corrupt the world stone!! or if diablo's still in hell we no have a chance to get rid of the soul stone in are possession as e head to him! and have bit more! challan getting there! as he slowing us down!! and we have to deal with some lesser evil's maybe! or more daemons he rallied to his Couse! by the time we done that he out of hell and an on the move!! agin in are Chase he has hell rallied behind him slowing us down! and all so a big army then what Baal had to move up the mountain!! now agin we could have when to hell to stop him and when right way! still hell rallied behind him maybe few not so much! but still not so friendly to us either! if diablos di not convince or give them a beat down! after returning to hell! so we are still slowed down possibly just enough that he makes his way out of hell be for us! with a bigger army the baal had! where we face lesser evils or the generals one at a time wither they are his foe or ally! as the game would most likey have us do to slows us down! if diablo was smart knowing we did not yet distoy thje other 2 sous stones he set trap with multiple general's or haven use face 2 less evil's at the same time! and tack them from us both slowing us down and given him 2 more soul stones with witch to corrupts the world stone ! or slowing us down more have to restive them aging! Eather way id chasing baal or diablo we lose! CHASING ONE OVER THE OTHER MEEAN THE OTHER WOULD SUCCED !
The question/statement at the end of the video made me feel like Imperious.... Chasing the enemy and killing him instead of assessing the situation a bit more
@@RyanAKAStreakk What is the meaning of walk the earth? Verb (of a person or species) To continue to live, especially in spite of danger or hardship facetious : adjective fa·ce·tious | \ fə-ˈsē-shəs \ Definition of facetious 1: joking or jesting often inappropriately : WAGGISH just being facetious 2: meant to be humorous or funny : not serious a facetious remark The deeper meaning is he endured hardship and danger to achieve his plan.
double entendre: noun Definition of double entendre 1 linguistics : a word or expression capable of two interpretations 2 literature : ambiguity of meaning arising from language that lends itself to more than one interpretation
I've been watching the act 3 opening cinematic again and I still find it weird people assume it actually was Tyreal that told Marius to take the stone to hell. He had been having visions and dreams that were likely implanted by the evils, it also happened the moment he released baal who was right next to him and started the game talking to Marius as if he knew what exactly was going on. Baal also didn't have to try hard to convince him he was Tyreal and then they were fighting Tyreal was still right by diablo when the discussion was done, I know he's probably got the power do it mid battle but just been my theory that if baal had orchestrated the plan with his brothers makes sense he would just tell Marius to do that knowing he wouldn't follow through or just intercept him at the gate.
Tyreal is practically the god. Based on Tyr. Whose signature is a sword of justice. If not even god can withstand Diablo, why was Tyreal able to to stand against Diablo in first place?
The cinematic model was made by another studio that didn't always follow the recommendations of the game creators, so rationalizing the conflicts with fan theories may be fun, but not rational.
I think that the idea that the Prime Evils wanted to get exiled from Hell and then get catched in the Soulstones, with no assurance of being freed again is too far fetched. That plan is not really in line with the lore that was established in D1. When I first played Diablo 2 over 20 years ago, I did not think much about Izual's reveal and the implications this might have for the story and every since then I skipped his dialogue, but then when I heard of that plan again in Diablo 3, I actually thought that the Prime Evils wanting to get exiled and captured was D3 retconning or re-framing what happened, since that idea seemed so far fetched to me that I thought it was due to D3's bad writing again. So this would be for me the worst part about D2's story.
Game Lore Dash, I have a sugestion for you on your next video. I'm not sure if it has already been covered but here is goes... There seems to be a continuity error in D2. After Act4 it seemed like a loooong time passed after Diablo's defeat since Marius was an old man when Baal found him in an asylum to get his soulstone, marking the begining of Act5 since we can see Baal with his soulstone. And yet, it seemed like it happened yesterday per our character's point of view. Our heroes must have been VERY old when they fought Baal. Maybe time went by fast while we were busy in hell looking for Diablo? Maybe 1 week in hell = 20 years in Sanctuary? Hmmm
The biggest mistake was killing C in the first act lol and introducing a character in the beginning and turning the character into the main villain because of a character who obviously couldn't be trusted
I think you are overanalyzed on the matter, just tell Lil Cain to sing his new rap album to the prime evils and they will give up on corrupting the world stone.
That baal video was amazing, even after 20 years, ive never seen it. It definitely wasnt in the game files. Which reminds me, how many remember that promo where the charecters are grilling or jogging thru the neighborhood? Hah.. -S.H.
you know what would have been a marvellous thing at this very moment? If Game developement would have been far enough advanced at that time to offer the player the choice to either pursue Diablo OR Baal at that time, resulting in different Storylines.
Lol, game development was "advanced" enough to have story choices at that point (plenty of games had story choices in the past prior to D2.) It just wasn't designed to be that type of game. Even D3 far later didn't offer story choices like that either. It just wasn't in the design intentions and game model, for better or worse.
Yeah leaving Mephisto's Soulstone intact by not going through the hell portal is also a terrible idea. We had to go through and follow the other Soulstone we knew of in Diablo, in addition to smashing the one in our possession after killing Mephisto.
Wait, so if we change the storyline so the hero aka us killed Baal first, will then save the world stone thing which will then make Diablo the final boss, which is the way its theoreticaly meant to be... if that makes sense
It could simply be due to variance between in-game and cinematics, or a common occurence of one being made before the other, and using older concept art. But here's a headcanon moment: He wasn't *completely* transformed at the pre-portal moment. It was enough to make a show, and he slowly finished reaching his true-true form while in hell.
diablo has a grand plan, much like god has a plan for all of time. Diablo's plan involved him dying several times until he could come back with the power of the nephalem as the last few went extinct. d4 is just d2 pandemonium event made into a game. lilith revives the brothers with an unholy ritual, lilith dies and at some point diablo will use the last nephalem, who has also been corrupted by diablo's lingering energy released from malthael, consumes lilith's soul and gains the power of the mother of demons. diablo will be in his strongest form and 4 may be the very last diablo game we see as blizzard is just dying.
I do agree that the whole plot was to deceive us and kill Diablo, however the urgency was also heightened as Tyreal stated Hell was about to spill forth like a tidal wave of blood and death if we let Diablo go unchecked. I do adore how much the narrative has been embellished with each subsequent game and the lore books that improved the thought behind D3 like the book of Adria and what she was up to. I hope D4 will expand the world greatly and deliver with more stories to explore. It would be nice to explore the different realms/domains of hell and how the 7 lords of hell impact them as they each had their title/aspect. It would nice to have a Netflix animated series similar to Castlevania which show the influences the evils had on Sanctuary like how Mephisto corrupted the Zakarum faith, Baal wipped out the Barbarian Tribes, Belial took over Caldeum and inflitrated the royal guard changing the city itself, Andarial corrupting and killing of the Sisters of the Sightless Eye, etc. It would make for a good narrative.
I would say that Tyrael's failure by enlisting the aid of Marius isn't necessarily born from stupidity and more like a faith misplaced. With the exception of Marius, Tyrael hasn't been on Sanctuary long enough to meet more humans, aside from two known and very important occasions in human history in the very, very distant past. The first is the end of the Sin War where Tyrael bears witness to Uldyssian's sacrifice, thus cementing his belief that there is an inherent potential for good, courage and self-sacrifice in the Nephalem despite being half-demons. The second is the creation of the Horadrim during the events of the Dark Exile. Tyrael tracked down and formed a coalition of exceptional and gifted humans for the greater purpose of using their arcane arts to stop the Prime Evils running amok on their world. To their credit, they did take up the cause without question-save for Zoltun Kulle, whom Tyrael probably wrote off as the exception, and not the rule. Further, I'd say this faith in humanity is strengthened even more when Tal Rasha volunteered to contain Baal for all eternity despite the cost to his very soul. To sum it up, Tyrael hasn't conceived that humans in the current age (as of Diablo 2) could even be afflicted by cowardice. In his eyes, humans are all like Uldyssian, the Horadrim, and the player character. Tyrael might have wrongly thought of Marius having more potential than he actually did
for me I always kind of suspected Baal was a more serious threat than chasing after Diablo again. Not really anything I could do about it, but it seemed foolhardy to me to follow Diablo into hell, to be removed from the mortal plane for an extended period of time with Baal on the loose. I had the strong feeling that Baal was going to be the ultimate challenge, since diablo 1 even.
Like they say, better the devil you know.
Perfect.
Always.
What?
See! Even the Devs want you to farm Mephisto or Baal instead.
Baal runs all day baby
@@tylerg842 LoL! Hell Yeah!!!
Baal is the type of demon that drinks all your milk, then puts the empty milk jug back in the fridge.
Yeah, but farming often means to hear Baal scream in death and see everyone leaving as soon as I enter the TP.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
In my opinion the plan was designed to succeed no matter which path the heroes took.
Since he came up with the plan, Mephisto offered to be the first to confront (and likely be defeated by) the pursuing heroes in order to establish the trust of his brothers that his plan was not intended to trick them into an advantageous position over them. Remember that Andariel and Duriel, who had sided against the prime evils during the dark exile, were assisting them much to Cain's surprise, indicating an unexpected change in the schemes of the burning hells.
If the heroes pursue Diablo, Baal finds Marius, recovers his soulstone, and goes on to assault Mount Arreat with his personal host of demons.
If the heroes pursue Baal, Diablo likely will have enough support from the burning hells to gather their entire forces, march on the portal back to Kurast, and assault Mount Arreat.
If the heroes split up and pursue both, they likely are defeated. I imagine canonically that it would've taken the combined forces of the D2 heroes to take down each prime evil, rather than just 1 or 2 heroes. Worldstone was still intact, so no nephalem yet to 1v1 the prime evils.
Mephisto staying back to fight off the heroes guaranteed his brothers a head start on their individual paths, thus stopping them from being able to catch both brothers at once.
The entire reason the lesser evils rebelled against the prime evils was because the three appeared to have abandoned the eternal conflict in favor of corrupting the mortals of sanctuary. All it would take for Diablo to unite the lesser evils would be for him to say, "Hey, we finally played our hand on this long con, we've got an active portal open waiting to bring us to Sanctuary, and once we get there we can launch a full scale assault on the worldstone chamber because the heavens aren't going to interfere in the affairs of mortals. Let's go do this." Azmodan and Belial would sign up in a heartbeat. Izual was already on board.
I have no doubt that Diablo would've been successful. Not only that, but he would have had access to the combined forces of hell with which to assault Arreat, whereas Baal could only summon his personal retinue.
Underrated comment
imagen if the player had been given a choice on witch one to fallow and still having losing either way like that! like fallowing diablo the easy path because you have only to deal baal and his army! fallowing baal is the harder ending as you have all of hell to deal with! and the less evil's! before get to Diablo! and givein a second choice... we then either have to go to hell destroy the 2 soul stones we have! know we have to destroy them! give diablo more time to raly his army and march! or if we didn't go to hell with Mafisto's and Baal's soul stones because we had to immediately tack of after Diablo! Giving him a Chace to tack there stone from use during the fight and corrupts to world stone more!
I wonder if Blizzard North's Diablo 3 would've elaborated on this had it been finished.
One thing I loved about diablo is how creative he is. Diablo always assumes he's gonna lose and he always plans for his defeat. when you think diablo is defeated, he isn't. diablo's plan always works around the possibility of his defeat.
You know him being a big muscle daemon I thought he was all brawn but no smart... that's not true in Diablo 1 ending.
While the players are trying to keep Diablo from winning, Diablo just kept himself from losing.
Diablo's triumph, while it may take millenia, is inevitable.
But if War, Death, Fury and strife become the main heroes of Diablo 4 instead of the new characters. Hell will inevitably lose.
This is some great storytelling, I never realized that you chasing Diablo was actually part of the Prime Three's plan. The hatred for Diablo may have been placed upon you by Mephisto during that encounter
When the plan is so good we only realize we fell for it two decades later, and just because someone spilled the beans
8:48 if you turn captions on it says "hi the mountains of Kylo Ren deep within mount aryat"
now i want even more to see the new cinematics in D2R and how they will do Diablo head and his expression at that specific moment! Oh i hope they don't disappoint us..
Tube head for the win
@@DarkLOREDash lol.... nóooooooooo
"We were hot for Diablo..."
Hell yeah! You see that THICCNESS?!
"Not even death can save you from me!" I've always loved this line he utters right before he annihilates me! 😁 Diablo has always been my favorite boss.
The realization that he ain't talking about your death, but his.
Think about it, why would he want anything to do with you after you're dead, or why would he imply that you're "safe" if you're dead, when it's him that will be killing you anyway?
While Tyrael trusting Marius seemingly didn't make sense, I always saw it as a Frodo-Gandalf thing (maybe the devs literally paying tribute to LOTR). Tyrael didn't want to be corrupted by the soulstone and he couldn't tell Marius to give it to a more powerful warrior because he wouldn't intervene to corrupt someone else.
Makes sense, Baal's soulstone was cracked which prevented it from fully containing his essence and allowed him to exert his will on his surroundings even more than the soulstones of his brothers. So I imagine that carrying Baal's soulstone would be even more damaging than carrying Mephisto's or Diablo's.
You see in the D3 cinematics how the new horadrim have to carry the black soulstone with long poles, probably to avoid the intense amount of corruption from its presence (and that's a complete soulstone, not a cracked one).
My guess is Tyrael did that on purpose, since if he did get corrupted by the stone he'd be a weakling and pretty much easily disposable. Giving it to someone stronger like what happened to the warrior would've been a double whammy.
It was the best possible bet he had considering his options, had he taken it himself he risked corrupting himself, basically giving the prime evils a fallen angel at their disposal.
He had no choice he was locked in combat with diablo who wouldn’t just let him leave and soon to be baal. The only person who could do anything was Marius, so tyrael entered his mind with magic and gave him instructions because whilst Marius wasn’t a shining hope he was his only option he had at that moment.
@@makishae9811 Exactly, people seem to forget Marius was literally the only one there who wasn't trying to fight Tyrael.
@@-Keith- Oddly enough, the soulstone in the Ressurected cinematic doesn't look cracked at all.
Who else thinks Blizzard needs to hire Dash for some voice acting in D4?
be still my beating heart.
@@DarkLOREDash For real. Every time you say "Staff", I get Horadrim vibes haha.
Awesome take as always!
Mephisto probably amplified the hero's hate for Diablo during their encounter, though not that it needs amplifying in the first place considering the stuff the hero has gone through.
Using Marius as bait for a weakened Baal makes logical sense. Baal wouldn't be able to prevent Tyrael from interfering like in the fight at the Worldstone Chamber (as per the Barbarian Ancients).
I don't think that Diablo would lose to Azmodan+Belial though, because my impression upon seeing his forces in Act 4 is that his army is still formidable (he still has Izual and all his other lieutenants who show up in short notice during Diablo 3). But it'll probably be a stalemate.
Thats so subtle & clever!!!!
@@DarkLOREDash pretty sure Az and Bel would be hesitant to fight Diablo considering, well, he's the *Lord of Terror* and all, and his personal power scale far exceeds that of them both, not just for being a prime evil.
or he could convince them telling them the jig is up the long con is over! and that the world stone was the goal all along and they just need the trick the angels and heavens in to not interring with sanctuary where it at! and now the way to the stone is wide open! the long con is at it end they can finale get and corrupt! in way that cant be undone! im sure Azmodan & Belial would be all over this! as the the big goal of the war is to get the world stone! it what they been fighting for! and the the reson they kicked the 3 out out of hell! was because they believed they lost sight of the war and the goal of the world stone! but now being told it in there grasp and no angels in sight to stop them! they might be all over this plan!
As others have said the "hole" in D2 is the way of the storytelling. We play through the eyes of the hero (who has no knowledge of where Baal goes before we kill Mephisto, and could easily assume he goes with Diablo), but we see the cinematics through the eyes of Marius and he knows only Diablo went to hell.
if you think about it. it's not the hero's fault. it's the people that has little info and Tyrael's fault. why is it his fault? because he made you think going after Diablo was more important rather going after something that's worse. and his fault on letting a weak human to destroy the soul stones. he could've go for the hero for help than two birds well be killed with one stone. I mean both him and the hero would've go back to defeat diablo at anytime after.
Dont tell My boss coz im watching this at work
don't worry... he is doing the same
This game series has a never ending story and i love it i have been playing since diablo 1 and diablo 2 is my favorite game of all time.
I don't want the Worldstone to be saved. Humanity must not be shackled!!!
POWER TO THE NEPHILEM
Game LORE Dash ; KILLING DIABLO WAS A MISTAKE!
Me ; IDK just kill him for Rareloots . . .
I think this also gives new meaning to mephisto cause when you meet him he tells your to late this could have had double meaning not only to diablo had his mission so did baal.
I thought Diablo was just looking back because Mephisto was talking to him
Lol love it
Same, to me it looked like “What? Oh, ok” crossed the portal*
Well he was getting a pep talk from his elder brother lolol
same thought lol
Yeah, he didn't turn until Mephisto started talking to him, politely pausing to listen to the words of his older brother
Tyrael explains after you kill duriel that he "is broken and the power that ties him to this world are fading," implying that he fought both Baal and Diablo long enough to allow Marius to escape.
I always just thought they couldn't do his model properly in the different mediums or maybe ran out of time or something.
Diablo 2 is still, to this day, my favorite game.
Then I suggest you play some new games, LOL.
@@SeanUCF I’ve played more games than I like to admit. Clowning on someone because their personal favorite is old is pretty silly.
@@DrJohnAZoidberg
I wasn't contrasting new vs old. I was merely saying new as in "new to him". My favorite games of all time are Dragon Force, Iron Storm and Guardian Heroes on the Sega Saturn, lol.
@@SeanUCF Dragon Force is tits
Just imagine if game developers made as good games now as they made back in the day :(
What an interesting thought. And also a totally wonderful badass idea for a mod in the future of they ever decide to further the franchise... because let's be honest... diablo 3 was kind of a big let down and we would have loved a deeper dive into act 4 and the stories of the earlier diablo game(s)
Diablo 3 was a let down, at launch. They did improve the game dramatically. Diablo 3 went on to become a staple of the diablo franchise. Diablo 3 is different from diablo 2, no debate there. Still a goid game nonetheless.
@@exisfohdr3904 To each their own. Diablo 3's atmosphere, plot and reward system are beyond terrible.
@@Comatoast69 I didn't think the plot of the storyline was bad at all. What exactly was bad about it for you? The environment wasn't as "dark" as diablo, so I get that complaint. Of course diablo 3 is about endgame rifts and greater rifts, providing a near endless goal to achieve. Beats just doing Ba'al runs all day.
@@exisfohdr3904 I didn't say the gameplay loop was bad... you're 100% correct about rifts, greater rifts and bounties being more palatable than baal/andy/meph and lvl 85 area runs. The problem I have is the actual rewards system. Items have no VALUE in d3... when you can be kitted out in a starter set 4 hours into a league. Unique drops are so common they had to add ancient and primal items . Diablo 2 just felt... so much more rewarding to invest your time in to.
@@Comatoast69 I guess that depends on what you consider rewarding. Season play in D3 is meant to be a competitive event with a 3 month duration(typically). If the loot system workrd like D2, then it wouldn't be competitive. The "free" set isn't free, as it requires the player to complete specific tasks to u lock. Even then it is rarely the set/build you likely want. E en further, the stats are not going to be what you are looking for. You are looking for ancient gear so that you can augment. Augments require time investment to level the augment gems. Then theres the push. Pushing your character to the limits in greater rift content. A competitive person can easily find it rewardinh, especially when there is a leaderboard for all to see. It is definitely a different kind of rewarding, but rewarding nonetheless.
Why is this news? Imperius was tricked and taunted into killing Diablo, by Diablo himself, revealing the trap.. and now, same trick again. To hold evil at bay is to keep it in prison.
5:30 technically you failed the task at the end of Act2 when Baal was released; Mephisto released himself by corrupting Zakarum before even Diablo was out. I still don't know why these games aren't about Mephisto instead of Diablo...within the lore, it makes little sense which brother did which thing here - Baal should have stood guard in act 3, Mephisto return to hell to continue leading, and Diablo go to corrupt the stone...however given then dark wanderer aspect, switching Diablo and Mephisto would make sense, but given all we know from other media, Mephisto staying there was probably the most silly move considering how much he's manipulated everything else including Diablo and Baal in the past.
Finally someone that gets it.
so it would be called Mephisto II lol
Don't you think it makes sense for Baal to chase for the worldstone given how crucial his soulstone seem to be in the corruption of the world stone? Do we know for a fact that Mephisto or Diablo would be able to corrupt it in the same manner?
Since all three brothers are embodiments of different aspects, don't you think it plays into who does what? Is Mephisto's hatred crucial in pushing the heroes through the hell portal?
@@brianfantana2725 I imagine it is titled Diablo due to this creature being the human connection to this demon world and family, and still a main character.
They want to destroy Sanctuary. When Terror and Hatred walk the world, Destruction soon follows.
It's not like we could choose not to go to hell. Remember that both Diablo and Mephisto managed to corrupt nearby people even while inside the stone.
We couldn't just stay in the normal world while holding Mephisto's soulstone.
Ya know what... his hatred probably made us go into the portal!!!
Yeah, and the risk of Diablo uniting the hells against Sanctuary (with an open hell portal just sitting right there for them to exploit for invasion) was a far greater immediate threat than an incomplete Baal running around the world, not really able to do anything of significance without his soulstone.
And besides, Tyrael thought that Marius had gone through the hell portal, which would mean that a loose roaming Baal wouldn't even be able to do any real damage before his soulstone got destroyed at the hellforge by the heroes. So sending the heroes to pursue Diablo was the only real choice they had at the time.
I don't remember well, but did we have any indication before stepping into the Hell Portal that Baal wasn't following along with Diablo into Hell? We the players know that Marius saw only Diablo enter, but did any of the characters know that Ball stayed back in Sanctuary and left the Durance of Hate through some back door while we were so close?"
It was due to Deckard Cain's assumption that Baal followed Diablo to Hell. He'll tell you this once you talked to him after killing Mephisto.
True but surely Tyrael would know Marius didn't follow. Or I guess that's the major plot hole.
What was he supposed to do? Use bilbos ring and slip past the prime evils to hell, and fight the smiths brother for the hammer of destruction?
@@roymcdre9180 Farm runes in lower kurast))
@@roymcdre9180 The portal sent the heroes to the pandemonium fortress, so I assume it would've done the same for Marius. But I don't think Tyrael was very clear on that point when giving him directions. But yeah, he would've had to sneak past Mephisto. Somehow, he was already stealthy enough to make his way through the durance of hate without being noticed, so I do give him points there. He might've pulled it off.
God damn it, dash! Now here i am thinking "i fucked up, i should have thought things through and instead i just danced to their beat! I failed sanctuary! Damn, cool video mate.
I’m surprised you guys went so in depth on this back when I played this game when it first came out followed by its expansion I was thinking in similar mind track that at the time Diablo was the greater threat since without his soul stone Baal was not as strong as he could be. After expansion release and playing it. I wondered if we were just going after Diablo while world stone was the three’s ultimate goal. I’m surprised my guess back then was not far off from the mark
D2 is perfection and I'll hear NOTHING ELSE
It’s better than relations with your SO
Facts on facts on facts
Only if they remove the obsolete and unnecessary stamina bar.
@@SeanUCF spam stamina potions
LoD was just perfection with act 5
Was Marius, carrying the Shard of Destruction, not expected to go to Hell though? Baal without the shard wasn't as big a threat, therefore the hero followed Diablo on the assumption they'd intercept the stone from Marius there. Instead, Marius kept the stone, failed to go through the portal, and played into Baal's hands as a result?
1:50 Ummmm I did not see Baal in Act3 or Act4. When was this???
I remember talking with my brother and some of our friends back in the day, about how if you could go kill Baal first, you'd probably stop them from corrupting the world stone. Good to know we were right in track.
I always thought he looked back to acknowledge Mar. Just to inspire terror in him and maybe in a strange way thank him
i say it everytime i see it.. man these cinematics hold up... 20 years old and still better than most of the shit today
So...Diablo flashes tits while others do actually dangerous things? Yeah, that sounds about right. Tank, DPS and all that, huh!
Regardless, I really think that D3 should've focused heavily on Az and Bel and finished the franchise somehow. Not everything needs 12 sequels and 6 prequels.
Eh, we've been killing Diablo since D1... it just wouldn't be a "Diablo" game if you didn't kill him at some point. We know the Prime Evils, especially Diablo, always have some way of eventually returning cooked up somewhere in advance, lol. That's part of the beauty of it.
Frodo: 'It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance.'
Gandalf: 'Pity? It's a pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.'
Frodo: 'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'
Gandalf: 'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides that of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, in which case you were also meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought.
The parody novel Bored of the Rings does a funny take on this. "He would finished him off, but pity stayed his hand. 'It's a pity I've run out of bullets...' "
Yeah, I mean, Baal was off looking for Marius since before or during the time you as the player experience Act 3.
Playing D2 back in 2000 after learning about D1's lore extensively, I always believed Mephisto - being the eldest and supposedly most cunning of the Three - was sending Diablo as harbinger of their return to wrest Hell back from Azmodan and Belial's control - and that we would be getting three quests related to this intended to set these two as future antagonists for the 3rd (and final game): 1 about Azmodan, 1 about Belial, 1 about the two linked to Diablo, ending with your arrival at the lake of fire... Sadly it wasn't like that.
The way I see it, regarding. Baal. I think the heroes followed Diablo believing he _and Baal_ had escaped together based on Mephisto's words (you're too late, my brothers have escaped you!), and although they didn't know *Tyrael sure as hell DID ...* he likely contacted Natalya's order and used it as proxy to hunt down Baal. Tracking him for months only to caught up with him all too late, right outside the burning assylum we see at the end of act 4 (would've been nice to have this as an act4 map, in fact)
Knowing of this, Tyrael bit his ethereal lip and said nothing to prevent internal struggles and diversions among the Heroes - hoping the Barbarians would stall the LoD long enough... they didn't.
And while those were 2 somewhat justified mistakes he made, he then made an even bigger one... *he sent us home* (or did he, for some?) Instead of sending us back to Hell to finish off Azmodan and Belial.... boy what an idiot.
Very nice! Amazing how this went so under the radar..
Which makes me wonder how much of Diablo 4 will also be part of their gambit. And that begs the question what the point will be where we, the players break free of the plan.
Mephisto: Diablo, go to Hell and start building our army. Baal, go corrupt the Worldstone.
*I'll take care of these guys.*
-RIP Mephisto
His sole purpose was to delay the heroes from pursuing Mr. D and Baal.
Good guy Mephisto
I had that same thought in my mind for many years Diablo had no reason to go back to Hell. Only the player had to go there because the player had to destroy the soul stone.
and "hell" felled like another fake hell. like what happened with the 1st game. it really doesn't take you long to find him just like the 1st game. the demons there were not a big of a deal. both of those realms looked way to small to even be called hell. really think about that. when was the last time you ever heard of hell as a small place to hunt down a devil that they say is 7 rings down and the place is a size of a large planet or maybe even bigger. this "hell" we keeping walking into in diablo feel like a playground rather the real deal. I get the same feeling from diablo 3. the demons lords seem to like making fake hells to mass with people.
Did the concept of devils/demons eventually being reborn after death and angels being reborn via song/prayer exist in D2 or was this a D3 retcon?
In D2 the Brothers are banished to the Abyss when killed. In Sin War demons respawn in Abyss while angels reborn from Crystal Arch, further fueling the Eternal Conflict.
Well , it's more interest story if D3 lore was the heaven try to wipe out sanctuary and the new heroes have to summon Diablo and his brothers back to sanctuary while have to kill the D2 heroes who now become tools of the angels .
Then we have D4 as MOBA game , endless was between heaven and hell.
I'm not trying to be mean here. Do you really think that's a good story?
The game design and lore is so well crafted that even after 20 years were are still playing it and finding out hiden plot threads. Truly a masterpiece!
The main reason why nobody saw it coming is that the world stone didn't exist in the game's lore BEFORE the extension came out. On the contrary, i think this is a poorly designed lore. It's like a kid saying "No, i didn't lost because some aliens arrive and kill your king ! Check mate ! I won !" yeah, yeah, you won, go play with your legos, blizzard.
It's been many years and I was a young lad when D2 first released
But I'm pretty sure act 5 was teased in game upon defeating Diablo, meaning it is possible that the world stone was already in mind when designing the game and story
This was during a time when Blizzard did give a damn
However I can believe that this announcement, made some 21 years later does seem like a cop out and a bit uneccissary. Even had we known then, the loot drops from Diablo are worth it
I too recall act 5 already being a thing at the release of diablo 2. You have a baal just running lose. That wasn't tied up by the end of act 4.
We dont have to kill the prime evils, we have to capture them and keep'em alive
So interesting, I was so clue to the story
Thanks lore Dash
I think you have a few elements backwards. We as the nephalem have no idea where baal is by the time we find mephisto. From our point of view we would probably think that he had gone with diablo to hell. They were trying to get there after all. We probably think we got there just before Mephisto went through the portal. And goads us with that line of his. So as soon as we murder mephisto, we jump through the portal after the other 2. But really it was 1. The look back is too mephisto, not baal. As mephisto is being left behind as bait.
Now there has to be a d2 mod where we do that instead...
This is the best Diablo theory I've ever watched. Four thumbs up!
While it might have been the correct decision to focus on Baal I don't think it'd ever be possible simply because the Heroes, Cain and Tyrael probably thought that he'd gone with Diablo to Hell. The players obviously know that Baal stayed behind since we're shown that only Diablo enters the portal to Hell in the Act 3 end Cinematic but the Heroes, Cain and Tyrael has no way of knowing this. I believe Cain mentions in the end of act 3 that Baal probably followed Diablo and in act 4 Tyrael hypes it up as being the last battle against the Prime Evils.
Also while it might have been a good idea for Tyrael to track down Marius I think he just prioritised defeating the Prime Evils over tracking down the soulstone. Who knows, he might even have started to track Marius down after the battle in Hell but was once again too late since Baal would've had a head start on him.
i think it would have be a loss either way! ball would get his his soul stone sooner get his army sooner! then diablo! rallying hell! but i think if we actually stopped to think about it as said "" wait what About the other brother Baal? wouldn't it be smatter to got after him, kill him, get his soul stone?"...
that would have give diablo time to rally hell! lest though who still supported him and his brothers! by the time we get back to the portal he got what he needed! and maybe all ready on the moving and get to him would have been harder! now we have another chose if he has rallied them and made it out of hell! we have to fallow him or go to hell and destroy the 2 soul stone we have! witch would give diablo more time to move and tack the Mountain! Or rush after Diablo assume he made it out of hell! fast enough! witch we asume he did! we go over what would happen if didn't! in moment! so now diablo succeed because we when aft baal! again do go to hell and destroy! the stone give diablo more time! or go after him now with the other 2 stones in hand! possibly stopping him for tacking the Mountain! and possibly giving him the catch to to tack the 2 stone from us! to further corrupt the world stone!!
or if diablo's still in hell we no have a chance to get rid of the soul stone in are possession as e head to him! and have bit more! challan getting there! as he slowing us down!! and we have to deal with some lesser evil's maybe! or more daemons he rallied to his Couse! by the time we done that he out of hell and an on the move!! agin in are Chase he has hell rallied behind him slowing us down! and all so a big army then what Baal had to move up the mountain!!
now agin we could have when to hell to stop him and when right way! still hell rallied behind him maybe few not so much! but still not so friendly to us either! if diablos di not convince or give them a beat down! after returning to hell! so we are still slowed down possibly just enough that he makes his way out of hell be for us! with a bigger army the baal had! where we face lesser evils or the generals one at a time wither they are his foe or ally! as the game would most likey have us do to slows us down! if diablo was smart knowing we did not yet distoy thje other 2 sous stones he set trap with multiple general's or haven use face 2 less evil's at the same time! and tack them from us both slowing us down and given him 2 more soul stones with witch to corrupts the world stone ! or slowing us down more have to restive them aging!
Eather way id chasing baal or diablo we lose! CHASING ONE OVER THE OTHER MEEAN THE OTHER WOULD SUCCED !
Imagine eventually we find out Prime Evils and demons were actually normal guys terrorized and purged by nephalems.
The question/statement at the end of the video made me feel like Imperious.... Chasing the enemy and killing him instead of assessing the situation a bit more
Dashy, it's not Justice that's blind, only people I'm afraid, and in this case - Tyrael.
uhh
Forgetting Tyrael is still the aspect of justice in D2?
@@Jiggerjaw, archangel, not aspect. And no, I'm not forgetting.
There is a mistake in the cinematic. Baal says he has walked "the Earth", but he is on Sanctuary not Earth.
The earth lower case E as in ground
@@RyanAKAStreakk What is the meaning of walk the earth?
Verb (of a person or species) To continue to live, especially in spite of danger or hardship
facetious : adjective
fa·ce·tious | \ fə-ˈsē-shəs \
Definition of facetious
1: joking or jesting often inappropriately : WAGGISH
just being facetious
2: meant to be humorous or funny : not serious
a facetious remark
The deeper meaning is he endured hardship and danger to achieve his plan.
double entendre: noun
Definition of double entendre
1 linguistics : a word or expression capable of two interpretations
2 literature : ambiguity of meaning arising from language that lends itself to more than one interpretation
How tf did i end up in English class
@@NOAK53 This was not about you. Please seek proper guildanes concerning your situation.
Why is Marius so old when Baal finds him? isn't it just like a short amount of time since we saw him flee from the hell portal?
And there are any way to pass to act5 without killing him?
I killed Diablo for the loot 😂
I hope blizzard stays afloat long enough that the remaster will release after that it does not matter anymore if they sink or not
I've been watching the act 3 opening cinematic again and I still find it weird people assume it actually was Tyreal that told Marius to take the stone to hell. He had been having visions and dreams that were likely implanted by the evils, it also happened the moment he released baal who was right next to him and started the game talking to Marius as if he knew what exactly was going on. Baal also didn't have to try hard to convince him he was Tyreal and then they were fighting Tyreal was still right by diablo when the discussion was done, I know he's probably got the power do it mid battle but just been my theory that if baal had orchestrated the plan with his brothers makes sense he would just tell Marius to do that knowing he wouldn't follow through or just intercept him at the gate.
Tyreal is practically the god. Based on Tyr. Whose signature is a sword of justice. If not even god can withstand Diablo, why was Tyreal able to to stand against Diablo in first place?
The cinematic model was made by another studio that didn't always follow the recommendations of the game creators, so rationalizing the conflicts with fan theories may be fun, but not rational.
i want to say first.... but i will not.... nope... I will resist the temptation.
Tbh, I really thought Mephisto was gonna be the final boss since he is the eldest among the 3 prime evils. Its a good thing they went to Baal instead.
He's the planner & just was released from his soulstone when we get to him
Man, your videos are superb!
Love your videos !
Fantastic video! :)
I think that the idea that the Prime Evils wanted to get exiled from Hell and then get catched in the Soulstones, with no assurance of being freed again is too far fetched.
That plan is not really in line with the lore that was established in D1.
When I first played Diablo 2 over 20 years ago, I did not think much about Izual's reveal and the implications this might have for the story and every since then I skipped his dialogue, but then when I heard of that plan again in Diablo 3, I actually thought that the Prime Evils wanting to get exiled and captured was D3 retconning or re-framing what happened, since that idea seemed so far fetched to me that I thought it was due to D3's bad writing again.
So this would be for me the worst part about D2's story.
Skip to 1:30 skip the noise
Daaaaamn good vid Dash
Game Lore Dash, I have a sugestion for you on your next video. I'm not sure if it has already been covered but here is goes...
There seems to be a continuity error in D2. After Act4 it seemed like a loooong time passed after Diablo's defeat since Marius was an old man when Baal found him in an asylum to get his soulstone, marking the begining of Act5 since we can see Baal with his soulstone. And yet, it seemed like it happened yesterday per our character's point of view. Our heroes must have been VERY old when they fought Baal. Maybe time went by fast while we were busy in hell looking for Diablo? Maybe 1 week in hell = 20 years in Sanctuary? Hmmm
IIRC, the hero is a Nephalem, essentially a demigod, or top-tier human. They might've lived pretty long.
The biggest mistake was killing C in the first act lol and introducing a character in the beginning and turning the character into the main villain because of a character who obviously couldn't be trusted
I cant wait for the new cinematics there going to look awesome!!!!!!
I think you are overanalyzed on the matter, just tell Lil Cain to sing his new rap album to the prime evils and they will give up on corrupting the world stone.
Oh Baal, How this cinematic build you up, and the the ingame model you got made you look like a chubby crab.
That baal video was amazing, even after 20 years, ive never seen it. It definitely wasnt in the game files. Which reminds me, how many remember that promo where the charecters are grilling or jogging thru the neighborhood? Hah.. -S.H.
That vid definitely plays every time you load up lod
It’s one of the main cinematics lol
Ok dude, I respect you holding out on turning the game on for 20 years. It's enough. You can play it now.
Thats not the cinematic video thats the e3 trailer
5:04 - 5:09 whats that from? Obv smashing meph and diablos soul stones but sauce
Act 4 cinematic end
@@DarkLOREDash yea, i figured it was classic ending video or something
And after choosing Marius, Tyreal became the angel of wisdom...
you know what would have been a marvellous thing at this very moment? If Game developement would have been far enough advanced at that time to offer the player the choice to either pursue Diablo OR Baal at that time, resulting in different Storylines.
Lol, game development was "advanced" enough to have story choices at that point (plenty of games had story choices in the past prior to D2.) It just wasn't designed to be that type of game. Even D3 far later didn't offer story choices like that either. It just wasn't in the design intentions and game model, for better or worse.
Lol, I have that poster somewhere in the basement.
I still have PDDD (post Duriel death disorder)
So .... how well did this age now that D2R is out?
Yeah leaving Mephisto's Soulstone intact by not going through the hell portal is also a terrible idea. We had to go through and follow the other Soulstone we knew of in Diablo, in addition to smashing the one in our possession after killing Mephisto.
Wait, so if we change the storyline so the hero aka us killed Baal first, will then save the world stone thing which will then make Diablo the final boss, which is the way its theoreticaly meant to be... if that makes sense
This is pretty damn good concept for ttrpg campaign. I think ill steal it ;)
Can't believe I just started d2 two weeks ago. The story blows my mind I love it
I wonder if the ultimate goal of the prime evil is "resurrect" Tathamet?
i really dont like new tyrael voice.....he is arthanis from starcraft 2.... x(
It could simply be due to variance between in-game and cinematics, or a common occurence of one being made before the other, and using older concept art.
But here's a headcanon moment: He wasn't *completely* transformed at the pre-portal moment. It was enough to make a show, and he slowly finished reaching his true-true form while in hell.
best video yet bro
So we can call D2 Lord of Shenanigans
"...and his brothers tagteaming him."
Do you mean that the Evils are all siblings due to having spawned from the heads of Tatamet?
Tathamet wasn't a thing when Diablo and his brothers in D2 were written.
diablo has a grand plan, much like god has a plan for all of time. Diablo's plan involved him dying several times until he could come back with the power of the nephalem as the last few went extinct. d4 is just d2 pandemonium event made into a game. lilith revives the brothers with an unholy ritual, lilith dies and at some point diablo will use the last nephalem, who has also been corrupted by diablo's lingering energy released from malthael, consumes lilith's soul and gains the power of the mother of demons. diablo will be in his strongest form and 4 may be the very last diablo game we see as blizzard is just dying.
I do agree that the whole plot was to deceive us and kill Diablo, however the urgency was also heightened as Tyreal stated Hell was about to spill forth like a tidal wave of blood and death if we let Diablo go unchecked. I do adore how much the narrative has been embellished with each subsequent game and the lore books that improved the thought behind D3 like the book of Adria and what she was up to. I hope D4 will expand the world greatly and deliver with more stories to explore. It would be nice to explore the different realms/domains of hell and how the 7 lords of hell impact them as they each had their title/aspect. It would nice to have a Netflix animated series similar to Castlevania which show the influences the evils had on Sanctuary like how Mephisto corrupted the Zakarum faith, Baal wipped out the Barbarian Tribes, Belial took over Caldeum and inflitrated the royal guard changing the city itself, Andarial corrupting and killing of the Sisters of the Sightless Eye, etc. It would make for a good narrative.
I would say that Tyrael's failure by enlisting the aid of Marius isn't necessarily born from stupidity and more like a faith misplaced. With the exception of Marius, Tyrael hasn't been on Sanctuary long enough to meet more humans, aside from two known and very important occasions in human history in the very, very distant past.
The first is the end of the Sin War where Tyrael bears witness to Uldyssian's sacrifice, thus cementing his belief that there is an inherent potential for good, courage and self-sacrifice in the Nephalem despite being half-demons.
The second is the creation of the Horadrim during the events of the Dark Exile. Tyrael tracked down and formed a coalition of exceptional and gifted humans for the greater purpose of using their arcane arts to stop the Prime Evils running amok on their world.
To their credit, they did take up the cause without question-save for Zoltun Kulle, whom Tyrael probably wrote off as the exception, and not the rule. Further, I'd say this faith in humanity is strengthened even more when Tal Rasha volunteered to contain Baal for all eternity despite the cost to his very soul.
To sum it up, Tyrael hasn't conceived that humans in the current age (as of Diablo 2) could even be afflicted by cowardice. In his eyes, humans are all like Uldyssian, the Horadrim, and the player character. Tyrael might have wrongly thought of Marius having more potential than he actually did
To quote Frodo: How could we ever know?
Always wondered how Marius was supposed to manage to not get curbed stomped by demons, even if he managed to go through the portal to hell.
for me I always kind of suspected Baal was a more serious threat than chasing after Diablo again. Not really anything I could do about it, but it seemed foolhardy to me to follow Diablo into hell, to be removed from the mortal plane for an extended period of time with Baal on the loose. I had the strong feeling that Baal was going to be the ultimate challenge, since diablo 1 even.