Thanks for watching our video's. The "call out" was really an invitation for the young RUclips reviews to come here, hang out, listen to music and learn all they can from the experience. We are not asking them here to listen to or compare any upgrades that we've designed or review any of our products. The upgrades are a small segment of our business. It is more of a service than any real part of our business. We offer free measuring and testing services and don't even charge for any design work that we do. Most of what you see in the upgrade videos shows a fixing of various problems. That alone is not the upgrade. Improvements in parts quality, wiring, binding posts, and controlling cabinet resonances produce improvements across the board. Also, we are not worried about how a review will turn out. Our products have been reviewed by every major magazine online and in print, and won awards from all of them. We won the industries highest awards including awards given out at shows. This is really nothing more than a giving of my time to help make the next generation of reviewers better.
People are so sensitive to even the slightest bit of criticism. GET A SPINE! Danny is trying to level up listening skills. I would love for you to hear the feedback I first received in my line of work ... but I am a way better professional because of it. Sometimes a swift kick in the ass is what hard headed people need to grow!
Whether his mods or speakers are better or not, you cannot criticize reviewers when you refuse to allow your product to be reviewed. Period. By principle, this is a hypocritical, egotistical stance. Period. He says he wont send his products for review to people who he isnt sure has the proper space to judge them. Well what about the people that he deems worthy? They never got a chance to review any of his products either. In addition, to listen to many lesser speakers in a perfect room, will do wonders. You dont get to acclaim your own products as being top of their class, if they solely perform that way in perfect environments. If you dont believe in your product enough to allow it to be scrutinized, you are not allowed to boast as your product being superior. The measurements he takes are simply nearfield. he doesnt mention that. They are not measured at a listening position. Which is why his klipsch reviews and modifications are flawed. The problems he shows are in the near field, and were also reviewed by James Larsen, showing the problems found by Danny are not present at the listening position. When you dont disclose this in your video, and pretend that you are fixing something that someone would not hear in normal use, is faulty. So he can toss out his opinion. That's his right. But it cant hold weight, when he is just as culpable as the parties he is criticising.
Without going back and listening to every word in the GR research video by Danny, my sense of the gist was essentially that because most reviewers are evaluating in conditions that are largely idiosyncratic -- because they're not in treated rooms -- that their reviews (and their experience as listeners) are also idiosyncratic. In science, we'd call this an experiment tainted by lack of controlled experimentation. His invitation is, in part, an offer for people who want to wear the mantle of "evaluator" to come and hear the impact that controlling conditions can offer. I'm sure there was ego and some boosterism mixed into Danny's pitch, but the element of scientific control is certainly being lost in the blowback.
Yes, but how many homes provide ideal listening conditions? Because these non-idyllic homes are the destination of the components these reviewers are reviewing. Most of us live in the real world. The real world is rarely ideal.
@@howardskeivys4184 Agreed. Homes are practically random as a test basis. In other words, they provide zero good data. Better to have ideal conditions for more consistent comparisons.
Will never forget my younger days in the 70’s when most equipment was judged on measurements and we bought them on this pretext. I also remember that I had to pickup my magazine to convince myself they sounded good when really they sounded awful thank god I got out of that way on buying my equipment.
Until you hear it in your room, with your music, you will never know. Most of us can't swap out $5k speakers and take a 30% loss every time, just to find a pair that work. Obviously if you are rich, it doesn't matter.
Yeah, GR's video on the Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands had me smirking and furrowing my brow because I actually happened to demo them. Maybe they do measure poorly (nothing was obvious or distracting), but GR failed to mention the transparency, projected image, and lifelike resolution that they produce. Those qualities really wowed me and clearly outshone any measurement iffiness. Nice to hear it wasn't just me, great video, man. Can't wait for that LS3/5a comparison :)
To astroporpoise; I had some similar experiences with Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand demo, and with a ProAc tower model (don't recall the model name) demo about two decades ago! Sounded great at first blush, but flawed technically, as I found out later.
I found it odd that Vienna Acoustics models had a different voice between the different model lines of the same production run. My favorite was the Haydn, the smallest of the line. Which one is more accurate? Don't care, I know which one I liked. Most of all I miss being able to audition speakers in a brick and mortar store and hear for myself, and not buy based on what some reviewers ears like.
He failed to mention those things because he doesn't actually listen to any of the speakers he makes mods for. He measures, changes crossovers to try and reach a measurement he prefers and that's it. He has specifically said he doesn't listen to the speakers.
@@davep2945 Danny recently measured and evaluated the parts in the KLH Model 5. He said it measured well, and that it just needed some no-rez and some slight parts upgrading, as I recall. When I commented as to why he didn't also listen to them, he answered that a customer had only brought in the one speaker. But I got the impression he wasn't that interested in listening to them anyway, even if he had the pair. Or, maybe he wouldn't have had the time. I could be wrong.
@@histubeness My guess is that strategy is to reduce shipping costs, but if the upgrades are best heard rather than measured(soundstage, imagine, spatial cues, all those things the tube connectors are suppose to improve), it leads me to believe the methodology is flawed.
Albert Von Schweikert made some very good, very expensive speakers and he would offer upgrades for his loudspeakers because he knew that even his high end loudspeakers suffered from compromises due the cost of production. Most real audiophiles will spend serious money on one tweak or another for often intangible gains. If Danny’s measurements are legitimate then it’s hard to argue that he’s a fraud. Because back in the day, review magazines like Stereophile, Stereo Review, Audio magazine, and others would publish their own in house test measurements to back up their assessments. I find what GR Research is doing to be as credible as any Mod company I’ve seen over the last 40 years.
Furthermore, I've built quite a few of my own crossovers over several decades, and my experience has been that it's the overall design and the synergy between all the components that matter. So, in some of my designs in a tweeter network, a more expensive poly cap actually sounded worse, harsher and more shrill, than a less expensive NPO electrolytic. Peter Comeau talks about this in his interview about the new Mission 770 speaker, and how he designed over 170 crossovers for that speaker, all of which measured very well, but it took him that many until he found one where he was satisfied with the sound.
The room is a much underestimated influence on how speakers will sound . I have a new set of modest price stand mount speaker's ,that sound much better well off axis or listening outside of the room 🙂
I think someone needs to do a double blind test of Walmart verses Costco wire coat hangers. Some of this stuff is ridiculous. Thank you for this honest video. You are spot on with your analysis of budget. That’s the whole point of different lines of speakers from a manufacturer. It truly is one of those duh things in life that GR Research is acting like he has “Golden Ears” with his test equipment, and can improve any budget speaker. Or his brand is truly amazing because of what? It’s just drivers, crossover components, and a veneered mdf box. Does his tweeters come dampened with unicorn piss? Seriously, a person can find flaws in any affordable speaker, and then can improve them. At what cost is it really worth it? Yeah, just buy a better speaker. The chaps at Wilson Audio is having a laugh at all of this.
what gets me is when they push components that are of a "higher quality" than that of which the music was recorded with. I don't doubt tube connectors are a quality upgrade, but if they are that superior, why don't we commonly see them on speakers costing thousands of dollars?
A friend and I bought two pairs of Sony SS CS5 speakers and a pair of GR Research upgrades. We see the imperfections of Danny's delivery. We see the imperfections of other people's presentations and the imperfections of our understanding which changes over time. My friend and I spent a couple of days working on the speakers. We A/B the before and after. We had some beers and some great dinners. We have no idea if the total cost of our speakers measures well against similarly priced speakers. We learned a lot and have a better understanding of our speakers than others speakers. I have started to do other modifications without Danny. It was an awesome experience for us. In the way that emails aren't the best way to communicate, videos aren't either. Respect differences and get together to learn and experience.
I have always believed that loudspeaker design is both an art as well as science. A good designer needs to balance these 2 elements to create a satisfying loudspeaker. As mentioned in this vid, perfect measurements don’t equate to perfect sound. In fact, the reverse is true. For eg, B&W speakers measure very poorly but imho, when they are properly driven & setup, can sound wonderful. I remember watching one of GR research’s vid where he was mulling over why he was not going to modify 3 pairs of speakers on the table. One of it was a Harbeth P3esr. I don’t know about you but Harbeth owners usually love their speakers so much that they are ever ready to diss out any other speakers irregardless of cost or size. I have owned several Harbeth speakers & i really do enjoy what they bring to the table. Tonally accurate, smooth, rich in the midrange & utterly musical. Only drawback is they are not so well versed in handling dynamic transients due to the BBC thin wall cabinet but come on every speaker regardless of cost has a draw back isn’t it? So i guess that vid must have pissed many avid harbeth users or perhaps even Alan Shaw himself. For me i generally prefer the presentation of british speakers. I like that so called BBC dip as they do make the overall sound less fatiguing. I was shocked when danny opened up the P3esr & says it uses cheesy parts in the crossover. To me, every harbeth crossover has been carefully fine tuned by Alan Shaw to perfection. He mainly designed these speakers using software as well as countless hours of fine tuning by ear. In addition, having been in this hobby for 40 over years, i have listened to many modded speakers & none of them sounded good. They measured excellent btw & technically they sound good but musically uninspiring. As the Japanese say, emotional fidelity is what makes listening to music truly satisfying. This i totally agree! I am no speaker designer but i feel that achieving flat frequency response are only a small part in the creation of musically & emotionally satisfying speakers. Peace.
100% agree. Measurements are there to establish a baseline. They confirm or make you doubt what you perceive through auditioning. Perfecting a response curve can be done in less than a day. You can stop there and be proud of the results, knowing you upgraded "super cheezy parts"(!!!). My personal experience with speaker crossover design taught me that it's a time consuming task. The more transparent the drivers are considered to be, the less forgiving your job becomes. I started this hobby hearing what i believed, now what I'm after is just the opposite...
Agreed. I posted my opinion regarding the "Calling out" video of GR Research. In a nut shell, 1. Speakers need to demoed in your room, 2. Your ears will guide you correctly, Measurements are just that, some are important but if you like speakers in your home don't get skewed by measurements. 😉
This whole audiophile subject is a huge can of worms. At the end of the day I don't care what guys like Danny say is good with his graphs, number charts, or fancy gadget measurements on paper. I only care about what is pleasing to my ear. 😁 I'd love to hear him have a discussion with Jonathan Weiss regarding the subject.
Q - is there a better way to bolster (never actually prove) your POV other than "trust me, I know what I'm doing" than with graphs and charts? It seems to always come down to this. This GR Research vid has really stirred things up. Fun times.
You're are the problem, its hard to realize how willfully remaining ignorant can damage a hobby. Measurements are like bread crumbs, no speaker with bad measurements sounds good (especially over time), and a flat frequency response is not necessarily the holy grail. Since you do not take time to learn the technical aspects of your hobby who are you to determine what a good measurement looks like and what is important. GR Research is not controversial and most reviewers are very limited in knowledge and experience...I laugh at almost all of the youtube reviewers at how little they know including Gene...lol So I don't really participate in this dumbass loser hobby anymore and I'm only interested when people like Danny who know stuff can expand my knowledge just by showing measurements of the original manufactured speakers. I took a shot at Gene but Audioholics do have nice live shows with industry experts which often share some of their valuable experiences. So I will crawl back into my hole of negativity and tinker with my system alone. Stay Ignorant Carlos!!! it is a blissful state especially regarding all things audio.
@@JurMalafi thanks 😊 obviously 30 years experience and working for Sony JVC and Celestion count for nothing in your opinion? Speakers which measure bad but sound good.. Celestion SL series all have a torturous impedance curve, they sound awesome for 30 year old speakers..
Actually our ears are our best judge. Guys like Danny use measurements to make choices for change. Guys like Gene at Audioholics say "if it can't be measured, then we can't here it". I'd like to think that we can hear even things that maybe can't be measured. And still everything we hear will be affected by the room in which we listen. For me it's always a pursuit for improvement.
I'm sure reviewers love their craft of reviewing, and are probably well educated in audio.. However, Danny has the heavy gear to precision measurements, and the education to comprehend, adjust...evaluate worth doing or not (first consideration). Everyone remember the old days when good stereo shops were everywhere...nice acoustic rooms set up with tons of gear? yeah, well...those days are gone. Except for some high metro areas...the rest of the country is pretty dry for listening to gear before purchasing. Danny could make speaker evaluations a full time gig...but he doesn't. But he does us all a service for some speakers. Other reviewers have the passion...but probably not the technical analysis gear...so what we get is an educated opinion instead of an actual analysis. Apples and oranges.
I have two pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1. I ordered the upgrades from GR Research, upgraded one set and then tested. My results were nearly identical to Danny's results. My results were measured by an audio engineer, not by myself. The sound difference was very significant. In blind A/B testing with three audiophile friends we all identified the differences and were easily able to identify the upgraded pair.
@@Carl-bd1rf bingo….the upgraded pair probably sounded different only & not subjectively better. I have listened to many modded speakers throughout the past 40 over yrs & none of them have sounded really better than the stock ones. They merely sounded different. The owners of the modded spks will of course initially say they sound better. But after couple more listen, decides to sell the spk. And i pity the buyer who buys the spks becos they are not aware that the said spks have been modded. I for sure will not buy anything that has been modified. No way.
Danny was pushing his upgrade kit for the RP600M speakers. I own a pair so thought I should consider the $250 crossover upgrade kit after listening to his pitch and looking at the spectrum graph he presented. I did some looking around on youtube and found a reviewer who had received one that had been upgraded by Danny himself. The reviewer played music through both unmodified and modified cross over speakers in an A, B comparison test. I realized of course that it would NOT give me the same experience through youtube sound and even my good quality headphones but decided to hear what I could hear anyway. The reviewer didn't appear to mention which speaker was which at the front of his test video, so I went into the test not knowing which was which. I listened over and over to a number of the music samples and came to the conclusion that I could tell very little if any difference. Where I could hear a difference I preferred the A speaker. After playing through the video I found out that the A speaker was the original unmodified version. As a sanity check I next read through the comments and found out that many had the same experience and preferred the A speaker over the modified version. I was glad I didn't waste my money and the time I would have spent, probably a good day of time spent to do an upgrade that might have only made the speaker sound WORSE to my ears.. The only ears I needed to please.
Your commentary is really interesting. There are so many variables in a loudspeaker that can make a difference and lift the performance. They are always a compromise looking for a person who likes that compromise. The old days a speaker buyer was presented with a salesperson with a wall of speaker pairs and a gizmo, called a comparator which they would select another pair suddenly and say… “how about these?” They would discuss the comparison and then select another pair. Each one would be in sharp contrast to the one before. None would sound specifically perfect or accurate and that was what speakers had in common. A good loudspeaker communicates and appears to give a clear window onto a recording, regardless of how they measure because the brain will relate to key information and gets used to the departures from reality in the presentation. The balance between the key variables in a speaker will appeal to a particular buyer. Fixing the speaker and getting it into a better level of objective performance is laudable. The original designer’s brief and the brief of GR Research are automatically different in their goals. Their validities exists in two different spheres of possibility. It would be fun to see how improved an improved speaker is, by comparing it with an original copy. I would bet that the ideal version of the loudspeaker existed until the cost was aligned with the price point of the speaker made it into a more prosaic version that went on sale warts and all. Should we be upset? Probably not…
I watch review videos regularly but I don't really know why. Ultimately it only matters how the component sounds in your own room with your own components. I'm pretty happy with the gear I have. My main system is a pair of speakers that aren't necessarily "audiophile" speakers but for the type of music I listen to they sound great. They're a pair of ZU Audio Omen Def II's. I don't really have audiophile friends...they all think I'm nuts for spending money on stereo equipment. One of them is content with playing background music on his cell phone speaker on his porch while he has a drink/smoke. That being said I've never had anyone come in and say "your system sounds like crap." It's usually "do you have this album on vinyl" or "I have a cd in my car I want you to play." To me that's the ultimate measure of stereo equipment. If it gets you totally engaged in just listening to and enjoying your music isn't that what its all about? Really to truthfully review anything you have to have a reference system and then A/B that component with your reference. So many of these reviews are the reviewer trying to recall how it sounds vs a component that is long gone. I don't think I could ever be a reviewer. I buy gear to enjoy my music. If something doesn't work for me I switch it out. I'm at a good place with my gear right now. Is it perfect? Far from it. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Enjoy the music!
I actually agree with you lol. I got fed up of GR telling us manufacturers were making rubbish speakers. Rather than buying some and then sending them off just buy some better ones! 🤦
What he says (and he is right) is that the amount of $$$ they charge for the given worth of product is sub-par. Being in diy for years I have witnessed such a poor level of thinking and execution from many manufacturers that I am surprised they are still in business...
If it isn't broken, don't fix it... Well said mate.. I like your T shirt BTW. I 'modded' a pair of speakers, made it worse, put them back exactly as the designer intended. Happy days. 🎶 👍 John.
Many have an opinion on DR Work without testing his improvements… I upgraded my Sonus FABER Venere 2.5 with GR kit. And I can say the result is fantastic. The Venere improved drastically in timing, staging, image precision’s. For sure the kit is not free but if you add 2’5k€ and 0,5 k€ you have a 3k€ speaker that easily plays in 5k€ range of speakers. And this is logical in this range of speakers because for pricing strategy the crossover is the weakest point. Designers make nice and expensive cabinets because it is probably one of the first motivation for buying the speakers. You need also nice drivers for the same reason. So the area you can save is the crossover. And it doesn’t mean designers of Venere didn’t make a good job. They did a good job. But there strategy was to make a very good 2,5k€ speaker and not a speaker playing in 5k range because they have other speakers in 5k range. How many speakers manufacturers communicate on their crossover ?
The only upgrade kit I would ever countenance is one endorsed by the original manufacturer/designer. There are plans afoot, for example, for Thiel speaker upgrade kits by Tom Thiel and Rob Gillum, which will of course pay homage to Jim's original designs and voicing. Just taking speakers apart and hot rodding them may suit some people, but not me. There are just too many questionable variables. Apart from that, the recent GR Research video on reviews was just an appallingly inaccurate over-generalisation of how equipment is actually reviewed.
For the most part, Danny was accurate. Review quality is generally pretty bad because of inexperience, lack of a reference standard, poor setup, laziness, or just people who’ve been ‘bought’ in one way or another There’s no real money in reviewing speakers unless you accept it anywhere you can - that’s also why you can’t really trust anyone. RUclips doesn’t pay well unless you have hundreds of thousands of followers. People don’t really buy magazines anymore and those were normally insanely sketchy reviews to begin with. As for original voicing… thats not really how physics works. Speakers reproduce a signal. They do a specific job that can be measured.
@@Cujobob re: your comment on original voicing. As any devotee of Thiel knows, Jim voiced his speakers through extensive listening. You can't measure that.
@@Cujobob thanks for your comment. I’m sorry but voicing is very real. Example. Celestion SL6s vs SL6si Same drivers same cabinet same internal foam, bracing and so on, the only difference is the crossover topography and components, Alcaps in the SL6s Poly caps SL6si. Those two virtually identical speakers have very different sonic characteristics/voiced differently. Actual difference in sound? Si is harder in the midrange.. My point, a kit/upgrades will change the “voicing” from what the original designer intended… The reverse is also possible.. Different components to try and achieve the original design/voicing Derek Hughes used totally different drivers on Chartwell LS3/5a and Stirling LS3/5a than the original (Kef units) BBC designs department LS3/5a’s and yet managed to get the voicing right. Yes he used the act of measurement on the drivers and crossovers but in his own words that’s only going to get you 80% of the way. 😊
I’ve not had any at my house but my local Hifi store holds stock. I’ve heard them many times at theirs and at Hifi shows. Perhaps I’ll try and get a pair to review.
Well said. Perhaps I am a little biased because I love mostly flat response speakers. With that said, I also own a pair of Klipsch RP-160Ms and though they are shouty and V-shaped in their response, they have their use cases too. I wouldn't use my flat speakers at a party, it would be Klipsch all the way. So I see what you mean about poo pooing on products and reviewers because I think they ALL have their worth.
I responded to GR's calling out video with this - Reviews are only opinions, and like a certain part of the anatomy everybody has one which smells bad. No opinion, or reviewer, can be better than another and certainly none can look down on others or "call them out" for differing motivations or styles. Yes, it sticks in my throat that every month there is a new greatest thing. I recently subscribed to a reviewer (you mention the name), only to find in no time at all a huge "treasure trove" of new greatest things. So I unsubscribed. I see each reviewer needs a start-up reference system, along budget lines, then swap out components and describe the changes. This will provide continuity at least and a basis for comparison both between components and reviewers. The market must be the final arbiter, so consumers can rate their experience through buying reviewers recommendations and classify the reviewer accordingly. Certainly reviewers should not rate each other; that is elitism and will only result in flame wars and industry fragmentation. For what it's worth...
The problems with measurements is it doesn't tell the full story. Certainly not in terms of your own subjective "sound quality". Trouble is, too much Hifi now is sold 99% on measurements since covid..
Your commentary is very well-balanced. I would like to offer a philosophical perspective in response to this video. It seems questionable for anyone to claim expertise on all things acoustic, especially when making controversial technical statements that dismiss individual perceptions and imply the ability to speak for every listener. Our psycho-acoustic perceptions are highly individual and change with age. Additionally, all recorded live music uses different types of microphones and recording gear, which greatly affect the sound. As a result, it's impossible to make an "absolute judgement," and a static measurement of speakers without A/B testing with a variety of music is an overstatement. Let's acknowledge the subjectivity of our individual perceptions and the complexity of acoustic phenomena, and approach these topics with humility and open-mindedness.
The fact that he doesn't send his speakers to reviewers, is that arrogance or is it insecurity? Do the customers that blindly buy his speakers have the same perfect room and sound system as GR Research has? Are the buyers perhaps ready? It's that part of his plea that bugs me. It feels to me like Danny is not ready to send his 'children' out into the real world.
Is it arrogance or is it insecurity? You forgot confidence. Danny could have done a better job on the subject and I thought that his argument about reviewers sounded kind of full of himself. If you call him he probably will pick up the call and you can discuss his speakers or kits. I'm sort of interested in the X-over update kit for the ATCs he reviewed and I own. He loved them and found that no changes to the design were required, just some parts swapping. But I refuse to install or pay for his Electra Cable Tube Connectors. Incompatibility issues and his arguments for their superiority over a quality binding post just don't hold up and no proof. A company like Spectral Audio that makes uber exotic components doesn't advertise or give products for review. They don't have to as all of their components runs sell out. Some products you might have to wait over a year to get. Their not arrogant, they are simply not interested in a reviewer's opinion. It's the customers and dealer network that they care about. Jay Iyagi's website ordered a pair of his speakers a few days ago to review. Might seem like something to checkout.
Anybody that wants to review his speakers that knows what he’s doing could ask Danny for a pair and I’m sure he would loan him a pair. Questioning the quality of his speaker design is really ridiculous on your part. Klipsch can afford to send everybody a pair of their slop and get good reviews from guys that don’t know how to listen so what’s the point
Actually my designs have been reviewed by every major magazine out there online and in print and won their highest awards. We have even won the highest awards at the shows. The point was that many of these young RUclips reviewers are not ready to review high end products, and not just mine, any high end products. They lack the experience and just don't have the associated equipment and room needed to make such evaluations. The video was not directed to our customers.
Danny has done a great service to the consumers buying speakers. He has made them more discerning and knowledgeable and therefore more unwilling to just hand over their dollars. The speaker manufacturers and their aides are put on notice.
Hey all, great comments....i guess i am the guy that tries to make things better and save money. I have a set of Kef Q350 and love them...they are crisp, clean and smooth. I also have a set of Sony SSCS5 3 way bookshelf speakers that are good but not great. I purchased GR Research kit for $364. I pray this kit will take the sony's to the next level? BTW the Sony's were $105. I waiting on the kit now. If you can get a Hi Fi speaker for a cheaper price then i guess the journey was worth it. We are all passionate about sound and music that is why we are hear. Keep cranking it!!!!!
In 'la nouvelle revue du son' journalists were publishing phase response of speakers , and apart from kef ref. and celestion sl... the other brands were so bad that the revue stopped publishing them..when i listen today to reference 102 or P60 from kef , they play top , and i can compare because having owned hifishop lots second hand equipment...and even old Ls3/5a's today play imho still in top league...but the bbc monitor kef P60 is able to reproduce realistic undistorted levels of drumkit....contrabass...with peaks of 113db anechoic....very rare are today speakers that can reproduce this ....apart from big wilsons ...etc...top expensif high end...
GR Research only deals with speakers.So when he called out all audio reviewers,what about those reviewers who talk about amps, preamps, DACs, turntables, etc.Who is he to question someone's knowledge.How would he feel if someone said that he only has a YT channel to sell his own products
We’re all picking our favorite crayon from the box. Opinionated audiophiles often lend us to bad reviews. I like both folks, and these systems deserve scrutiny. We should make efforts to remain cordial though.
Best response and response to the response yet!! So well-reasoned and unemotional. Great points across the board, the most significant of which is that David is seizing on the “controversy” to promote his own channel - and that’s a little, as the kids like to say, cringey.
I absolutely love you Kef conclusion and I can't agree more with you. Average speakers + kit + labor = buy better speakers to begin with and enjoy your music.
You are spot on mate. Danny seems to have made a living out of crapping on everyone else's parade. The man with the Alchemist's Stone - he will breathe new life into your speakers and give them immortality. There were some of us who had a bit of a to and fro with him on his Wharfedale Linton bash - I guess you can take a horse to the water, yeah ??
Actually no, people send their speakers to Danny, he doesn't just pick them himself, and most likely because they're unhappy about their performance or maybe see if he can improve their performance. It's surprising how many companies building even three, four, five thousand dollars and up systems might have $20.00 worth of network parts in them. And while spending $350.00 on an update kit for a pair of Sony's that you might be able to get for around a hundred bucks sounds high, the quality of the parts is high(I really want to hear a set of these) and he did a complete redesign of there networks, his time is worth something and apparently there are enough customers out there warranting an upgrade kit. Plus I think Danny is a straight-up person, talking to him a few times already about maybe upgrading my speakers (a pair he likes and didn't feel a need to redesign, just replace parts; a Danny first?) I get the impression he truly believes in what he says and I believe it even when I disagree with him about one or two things. Interestingly I spoke to the speaker Manufacturer and I told them what i was planning to do to them and they seemed okay with it. Asked why they did not use better parts, the response was every additional dollar spent adds like five dollars to the retail cost. Multiply that by four or five hundred bucks and well, if you're handy enough to do the mods, why not. I'm getting old, maybe old enough to not want to do them myself.
I am perfectly ok with subjective perspectives. In the beginning, that's what RUclips was all about, real people doing home-made reviews etc. In many ways, I prefer it.
I personally have no problem with what Danny was saying and I certainly have no problem understanding David's response either - - I subscribe to both channels - "My Own Devices" is among the most "honest" channels out there, I hope David never changes his approach - - myself, having gone down the road of upgrading crossovers back in the eighties, way before the Internet or You Tube, I get exactly where Danny is coming from as well - and - there's not a shadow of doubt in my mind that he's making improvements. Are the improvements at the level he implies? That's an unknown and at the root of all of the concerns and commenting - - so, as for Danny's assertion that some reviewers may not be ready or up to the task of evaluating his work, my initial reaction was that he's referring to the "associated gear and acoustic surroundings" being employed, not whether said reviewer isn't personally up to the task of hearing the improvements he claims, that is, it's not so much about their personal evaluation skills, rather it's their associated equipment and listening room. On the other hand, he implies that he has a reference listening rig and listening space and that's part of the evaluation of his modifications - - and, yes, that's a subjective argument anyway, like, who's to say what is reference etc. So yes, I do love "My Own Devices", but again, that doesn't mean that I don't understand Danny's concerns albeit it that I don't personally think, reference or not, that a reviewer couldn't evaluate what he does. In the specific case of "My Own Devices" and whichever components David is telling us about, where is the reference? It's not there - but again, that doesn't mean that I don't love his channel, I do, watch every posting and believe every description he offers about the gear he's listening to, none of that gear, as least as far as I remember, being "subjectively" reference, at least by "today's" or modern standards and I doubt that David himself would argue that - With the addition of some reviewers possibly being a bit biased to generally give positive reviews, I believe those types of issues have more to do with Danny's expressed concerns than again, the reviewers actual listening skills. It seemed like many took his posting with New Record Day personally but I highly doubt that was his intention.
Keep in mind that DR is a very experienced audio professional who is able to focus his listening skills on precisely the design changes that he is making. Is he likely to hear "differences" that I cannot, absolutely. I don't doubt that his design changes tend to be "directionally correct" but would I pay $$ expecting to hear these differences for casual listening enjoyment, probably not.
I stopped listening to Danny a year ago. In his unmodest opinion, his speakers are the best despite customers complaining about driver failures. I found some unicorn 3 way speakers at a garage sale with 15" woofers so I'm not looking for more gear now. I have 4 complete systems plus a DIY boombox with a 10" sub in it.
you can't build a speaker on measurements alone he never listens to any of the measurement upgrades I called him out on that. what it charges for upgrade crossovers is ridiculous and I don't believe the parts that good not the inductors for the price . too many good kits out there that are cheaper than what he's charging for some crossover upgrade like Mark audio drivers and a cabinet blueprints. have a go and build a kit make some good videos you're be impressed. I don't believe his own speakers are original either, they are from a Dutch design, in the late 80s early 90s I was getting tons of mail order I recognise those open baffle designs.
Measurements are only 20% of the sound if at best. If measurement are as important Danny Richie makes them out to be, then we’d have great speakers from every one. It’s not difficult to design a good measuring speaker yet still sound like crap.
Most of the best speakers I've ever had the pleasure to listen to are no longer available. My youngest son is 13 and he has never heard a vinyl record. He has never played a CD and nor does he care to, and at the rate things are going he may never drive a car.
This is what I see wrong with Danny's approach to "making speakers better" by modifying the crossover. 1) A speaker is the sum of all it's parts, not just the cross over. Tweeter, woofer and cabinet are equally or even more important. Manufacturers tune everything together, not parts individually. Post GR mod, I have read people claiming that the speaker is dramatically different and others have written that they cannot tell any difference at all. This is probably why Danny does not post any audio of before and after mods. A few people have posted A/B comparisons of his speaker mods on youtube and I personally could not identify any difference via youtube audio format, using my headphones, for those particular speakers. If I want to step up the sound quality of my speakers, I am going to be looking for a speakers that offer a better package on ALL levels, not just the crossover. 2) The customer is doing the modifications. Depending on that person's skills, abilities, experience and tools the end result can vary drastically. The person modifying can actually damage the speakers, scratch up the cabinet, poorly secure parts and compromise the factory seal resulting in new vibrations, noises and cosmetic defects that were not previously there. In that scenario, the result would be a speaker sounding and measuring worse, despite now having $400 worth of crossover components. Me personally, I am not willing to tear apart and dissect a pair of gorgeous and perfectly functional speakers. 3) The average enthusiast, with their average gear and average listening space would not be able to determine the difference nor be able to pinpoint which speaker has what crossover. 4) Flat frequency response is not desired by all users. Especially those people who use their speakers for dual duty home theater and music.
Trouble is, some speakers may benefit more from Danny's work than others, so doing that A-B test with factory vs modified speakers will only tell about his work on those speakers alone. The other consideration, this from one who has built alot of speakers over many decades, is that whereas Danny's work is certainly legit, and he no doubt improves the speakers he modifies, the much larger variable (and he intimates this in his videos) involves the quality of the drivers. So an improved speaker with poor quality drivers will not benefit as much from an improved speaker with high quality drivers. One other point I will make while I'm here, is that whereas Danny chases flat response as his central goal, some speakers that do not have flat response from the factory may have been developed with non-flat response deliberately as a means of voicing them, given the character of the drivers, to give them a desired sound. Since all drivers sound so very different, there is really no such thing as a correct or true sounding speaker.
@@howardskeivys4184 That is an entirely different topic, one that is easily misunderstood. But studio engineers can tell you why they use studio monitors and not hifi speakers, and the sales folks at the high end shops can tell you why customers prefer hifi speakers vs studio monitors. It has to do with application, and doesn't make sense on the surface but is legitimate nonetheless. One other point to make about flat response - and I'll use an example to make the point, which also on the surface seems to defy reason. I can set up two tweeters (I have done this many times) in my active system so no passive crossover parts in the signal path, and in each case balance the output for flat response, and one tweeter will sound MUCH brighter than the other. This is why two speakers each with a flat response profile can sound so very different from each other.
Super interesting!!! to hear you are going to pit the Falcon Acoustics LS3/5a against the Graham LS3/5. Will those be the Falcon Gold Badge, Silver Badge or MoFi Edition? And I would also love to hear your impressions of how the Graham SUB3 works with both the Falcon and Graham speakers while I'm putting my wish list together.
But are measurements a definitive way of Quantifying sound quality? I don't believe that to be the case and I tell you why because the best amplifier I have ever heard bar none and it had the best dynamics ,the best punch ,the best slam and the ability to vividly portray not only the soundstage but make it feel that what you were listening to was real and thats the croft phono integrated amplifier. I think a Polish magazine reviewed it and they tested it and said it had some thing like 1% THD and something like a 70% signal to noise ratio,I think most tube-based amplifiers measure better. I have it hooked up to an older pair of klipsch heresy loudspeakers and as I said it is the most real sounding piece of hi-fi I have ever heard.
True, back in the '70s, when I was in Japan, the base HiFi shop had all the best gear in a separate room hooked up to a Bose something or other 250 wpc beast with .5 thd. (only Bose I would actually maybe buy) They didn't even sell that amp there. It just sounded really good.
It's interesting to hear all the comments back and forth on Danny's video. For me, I get to hear the comments from reviewers like yourself that I didn't know were out there. So for me its a boon. More channels. New reviewers (to me). You could say more opinions to cloud my choices. Or I could say more information is always better. New points of view. This community is much larger than any of us think it is. There will always be, disagreements, arguing and call outs. It's looking more like a family dinner. But I am happy to have an even larger list of go-to reviewers for more information. Thanks and keep doing what is actually a service to our shared interest/ hobby/ passion.
That is not what GR Research does. Their main business is selling their OWN speakers and speaker kits. Their "restoration" kits are per customer requests. I am not so into measurements too. But speaker measurements have a close correlation to the actual sound. If a speaker chassis is "booming" you WILL hear it. If a driver is stressed you WILL hear it. If the bass or the midrange or the tweeter section is prominent you WILL hear it. What Danny said is that you need to have a reference high enough against whom all the others can be judged. And that reference MUST be a superb speaker system in a nicely treated room with top quality components. When that is surpassed you need to upgrade your reference...and that is how the story goes. He said that he understands that not everybody has the means to create such a system...and at least he offered his premises to fill up that void to anyone who is concerned. And that is a good thing. Too bad that certain reviewers egos got hurt. Their bad.
I guess one point is that some mfg actually is cutting the cost of components and build quality more than the price for the customer. Some really are cheaply made, and should really be exposed for it, primarily by reviewing them properly. I guess it comes down to a false economy and products that is subjectively judged, not easy.
I really don't have a dog in that fight. I'm an old retired fart who probably couldn't afford most of the speakers yall are talking about. I bought an old pair of (cheap) jbl bookshelfs. Didn't like them at all. As you say, they are built to a price point. I rebuilt them using better materials for the cabinet and the crossover got air core inductors and film caps (they had electrolitics) . You wouldn't think they are the same speakers now, they sound amazing. I don't know about measurements, but materials do make a difference.
I enjoy ''regular guy'' subjective reviews much more than a bunch of measurements. I also question the integrity of some RUclipsrs whenever financial gain is involved. It's like when I read a hi-fi magazine and see a rave review of a product on page 32 and a paid advertisement for the same product on page 56. I only had one experience with Danny and if I were to judge him based on that one experience I would NOT recommend him. Fortunately it did not cost me too much and IF he has many loyal customers then maybe my experience was the exception and not the rule. As for modding speakers...I have had mixed experiences tinkering with upgrading components with boutique parts. It can be a very deep rabbit hole and you have to ask yourself if there's a real benefit to adding $500 of mods to a $1000 speaker vs buying a $1500 speaker from the same manufacturer. You'd think that these well established companies have the engineering chops to do it better than some guy operating out of his garage. Unless of course all the expenses are going into publicity and marketing. This is a great hobby isn't it?
Thank you for that great reply. After few days to reflect on this, I’ve realised controversy really sells.. Danny’s video probably boosted his hits and subs, I’m sure David loved the attention. Completely by accident, I’ve had the most views and comments in the shortest period of time since I started this channel. Interesting the level of response on a pretty pointless non educational video.. Anyway…. Back to talking about speakers soon 😉
Enjoyed your video. Something else to keep in mind that never seems to get mentioned. Modifying a speaker by taking it all apart can stress the cabinet. In particular, I'm talking about the screws that attach the drivers to the front baffle. Taking the drivers off, and then putting them back on has the side-effect of stressing the MDF material - and if done enough times would certainly weaken the seal between the drivers and the front baffle - perhaps leading to unwanted resonances. You want an omelette - well, you've got to crack some eggs, but the risk is you may find pieces of egg shell in your meal.
Well said sir.....I like Danny's channel, his reviews/research are scientific and very interesting if you are into speakers. BUT......all the big boy manufactures have the same test kit as GRR and could easily make flat response low distortion speakers.... That is what we know as 'studio monitors' which add or take away nothing from the music.... However, if you have ever listened to a great pair of studio monitors, they can become fatiguing.... as the the sound is very 'in your face', they are doing what they should do....give you everything....good and bad. Our ears are not scientific oscilloscopes.........they require emotion which is why pre production HIFI speakers go through factory listening tests where the flat response computer generated crossovers start to get tweaked....so the human ear can enjoy the emotion. Yes the 'cheesy' xover parts as Danny calls them are a pain....but that's where if you wish, you can upgrade them. Vintage Tannoy DC owners have been doing it for years!!!!
I like My Own Devices, but I found that 'call-out' video to be quite odd. It seemed to come out of nowhere, and seemed to me to be somewhat juvenile. Maybe there was some underlying reason for the call-out, but still...
Your points actually support why Danny should not call our reviewers based on the job they do. There really is no room in this hobby for a negative video like Danny published....he may have actually done more damage to himself that anything else. Not a great strategy on his part. Ears are the ultimate tool.
Danny's Call Out, which it really wasn't was more of a self-promotion and sometimes in life if you don't say what is difficult to be said, then you never really get an answer to your question and start the discussion. Danny knew this was going to be controversial, but it did what was intended, it started a conversation, which is really needed with more topics in this great country of ours. This was really about Danny's speakers and his Room; he actually had more praise for the people he called out. Taking Danny's speakers out of the equation, the actual room that we listen to is actually not as much a consideration for some as we would like to believe. I think we would all be surprised at how much performance is actually left on the table with a properly treated room, even with a $500-$2500 system. Danny's speakers were never a consideration for me.
Everyone knows Klipsch for instance measure like shit, and are generally very bright speakers, and audiophile's tend to poopoo them, but they still sell a metric shit load of them, lots of people like that ear piercing sound of the Klipsch horns. Please don't think I'm saying I don't think measurements matter, because I think they do especially when talking about bass, I run a MiniDSP on my subs and it's game changing, the miniDSP blended my subs so well, my bookshelves sound like a full range tower, you won't know a sub was even in the room if you weren't sitting in front of it.
Here's my complaint with Danny and GR - his gig is not designing a new crossover and selling you the plans for that and letting you buy the level of parts you can afford, because a certain value cap or inductor will be that value no matter whether it's an inexpensive one or a costly one, and, so if his improved designs give better measured performance, then the same crossover using cheaper parts will still measure better and ostensibly give better performance. But, that's not what he does- his gig is selling those crossover kits with high priced parts that he sells at a very hefty profit, far more than you would spend on those parts if you bought them yourself, IMO. The question is- is the increased cost he charges too much, taking into account the engineering work he has done designing the improved crossovers, in addition to the cost of the improved parts, and in my opinion, the answer is yes. I think the cost of his kits is far too much for what you get, even accounting for the design work he's done. After all, he's done this so much for so long that he can crank out a workable design very quickly with little effort, IMO. And, as you said, just because something measures better doesn't necessarily mean it will sound better. The few examples online that are available of his before and after work aren't worth the cost to me. In some cases the original sounds better to me, in some cases I hear little to no difference, and in the cases where I do hear a difference and new design sounds better, it's too little of a difference to justify the cost of the kit. That's my opinion on the subject. I also really don't care for his overinflated ego, and the fact that he thinks he's the smartest guy on the planet and knows more than many celebrated designers that have been doing it since he was still in grade school. If he knows so much, then why is he working out of a little small shop selling speaker and crossover kits, and not designing systems for some of the biggest companies in audio? Finally, his measurements of some well known speakers don't reflect what other extremely expert testers measure, like John Atkinson for instance, who has also been doing this for decades longer than Danny has.
Agree 100%. He did a video that trashed 5 small speakers, but if I already have them, it's much cheaper to reuse the cabinets and likely the bass drivers and upgrade the tweeter and crossovers which can be done economically if I go direct to the parts suppliers and upgrade using the same values. THAT'S what he is trying to hide, and it is short-sighted because he loses all credibility with me. That, plus I often get a morning-after hang-over vibe from him.
Danny is not very thorough with measurements. Amirm at ASR is very thorough with measurements. Danny is a snake oil salesman selling tube connectors, wires etc...
I appreciate that all speakers are built to a budget and that sometimes that forces the manufacturers to make compromises with components. I’ve watched many of GR Researches videos. All I hear and see is measurements, measurements, measurements. I’m not saying that Danny does not make improvements to speakers, but in the 35 years that I’ve been into audio, one of the biggest and most important lessons I’ve learned is that measurements and specifications should be used only as a general guideline.Ultimately your purchasing decision should be influenced by 2 things, your wallet and your ears. To be honest, I would not spend £2000 on a pair of speakers I’m not totally happy with and then spend £500 trying to improve them. I would rather spend £2500 on a purchase I was happy with!
I have just watched G R Reasearches latest video. Duration 11 minutes. Danny used the term ‘measure’, ‘measures’, ‘measured’, ‘neasurem’, or ‘measurement’, no less than 17 times and didn’t use the terms ‘sound’, ‘audio pdrforma’, once! What is he trying to achieve? A totally flat response speaker or what the end consumer is looking for, a speaker with character and individuality. If I wanted a speaker with a totally flat response, I’d buy a pair of studio monitors!
@@howardskeivys4184 Fellows, there is a lot more that goes into our upgrades than just correcting the balance of the response to a more accurate level. We spend thousands of hours listening to and comparing every single part down to the wire and connectors. The end goal is and has always been better sound, and that is what we offer.
@@dannyrichie9743 I’ve just passed comment on ‘the boomer consumer’s’ rebuttal to your ‘calling out the reviewers’. Take a look at and let me have your thoughts.
Gr is jus telling what we should know or least suspect, if you can't see it they probably cheaped out on it. It's the same with pc, look at dell pcs, especially their alienware line. That said I think Danny is ocd about measurements but expecting reviewers to be ocd about reviewing them is unrealistic. Picking on critics is always a bad idea, as they can take things personal and i'm sure we will see more vids in response.
I have little doubt that what GR research does will improve speaker performance. Better parts almost always sound better. Having said that, measurements on speakers come pretty close to "Nice to know information". I say that because frequency response will vary in each and every room you put that speaker in. Off axis response will vary based upon side wall distances. Bass response will vary based upon room placement. High frequency response will vary with toe in, toe out. The ONE measurement that NEVER changes from room to room is STEP RESPONSE. It's never mentioned, rarely measured. Any speaker that performs well on a step response, I would argue would also perform well on any musical notes. Apparently RUclips audio reviewers don't understand this simple concept.
John Atkinson often measured step response however yet again some speakers with measured “bad” step response don’t always sound bad. Thanks for commenting
There is a fundamental problem with not making money ton videos or reviews. As you stated, you cant afford to buy speakers and review them. So your channel will just go away. You do it for fun. So with that premise, if all reviewers take the stance not to accept review samples, not to monetize their videos, there would no independent reviewers. Only corporate ones owned by the brands. Any brand, Danny included that takes a stance against reviewers as a whole, damage the idea of independent reviewers with different opinions on the same products. For Danny to call out anyone or the entire You Tube community of reviewers is just a BRAND saying that they "Dont know what they are talking about" Sounds something a big brand like bose would say. or Sony. Or Denon. "Our product measure great in our lab. You must not be setting it up correctly."| Steve Jobs once said "You are holding it wrong"
Harmonic distortion might actually be good to flavour the output sound. A lot of people like variety in flavor, be it food, cars or a lot more, speakers included. So Harbeths are not supposed to sound like Radihos. Buying a speaker means buying that house flavor too. Bringing everything tightly to a set Harman curve defeats exactly that. I am not sure about those speaker kits or the end results as I have no personal experience. But when I saw major brands being faulted on said channel, it was like a blow on the noggin to the engineers who spent years trying to build and perfect a speaker. That wasn't cool.
Way off here. When Danny "fixes" a speaker most of them are flawed, sometimes just by the process of mass production. Your Ferrari requires tuning once you take delivery, Danny is tuning a mass production POS speaker. That is all. If they were so worried about their years of engineering work they would make sure their POS speakers weren't sold to unwitting customers. Seriously if you built a kit, maybe one from SEAS.NO and learned how a speaker actually works. Danny would make much more sense. Keep in mind people send their speakers to him, he doesn't select the speakers to improve. So if your butt hurt because you didn't know Klipsch and B&W sucked....hello McFly!
Regarding this subject and also your shirt...I modified a pair of Levi's with with a pair of scissors and a cup of bleach. They were far more transparent when I finished. Cost was less than $1. I have a kit i sell to do this mod but it's not going so well because the shipping runs more than the parts.
I'm sorry, I don't understand the message here...so forgive me if I missed the oblivious. By this rationale, if someone comes out with a suspension kit for a car, does that suspension company have to provide another car in stock form for you to compare?? The whole point would be to offer something that might improve something and it's ultimately up to the customer to try it correct? I agree that measurements don't tell the whole story, if so then a turntable would sound horrible.
Well said. I like those reviewers who compare speakers by playing some songs and comparing them alternately with the same volume & tone settings. These guys have good gadgets to do the comparison. Speaker comparison by Crutchfield is such an example. First, I look at the spec sheet or info. of the speakers. Then, I use my ears for comparison. I watch reviewers who talks a lot. Each describe a speaker being "laid back" or "warm" etc. all the time. Maybe Danny is talking about these guys. GR research, play some music before and after you are done with the speaker. Man, put some music on and stop the talk! Let me hear how they sound. What is laid back or warm on your ears may not be the same as mine. How many people out there actually buy speakers often (like changing underwear). Do you think they know what is WARM OR LAID BACK?
Measurements are all good and real but, can I hear it? GR does do good content but you have to remember he selling a product. Does upgrading poor components help? I’m sure it does but again, can I hear it or are they just better components? At the end of the day it’s about the music and does the music sound good. GR can have their measurements and I’ll have my ears.
We have never refused to send out products for review. Our products have been reviewed by every magazine online and in print and won every award they offer. My issue is with some of the new generation of reviewers not being ready, and not just not being ready to review our products, I mean not being ready to review any high end product.
Can we all just enjoy this hobby without all the drama. Audio is personal like food or fashion. The business aspects of audio marketing is never ever going to change...Just live and let live and enjoy the music.attacking GR research or any reviewer is just beyond me.
Most of the gr videos I’ve watched, most speaker makers are making poor speakers, cabinets, crossovers, components etc. even high end makers. Not in my opinion though.
95% of speaker design engineers do not know how to design an accurate crossover. ONLY 1st order crossovers can be time coherent. Others (4th order) can be phase coherent, but ever time coherent. Ask any musician if timing is important in music.
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & JOP) [Video Visualizador Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zoc75M8Swhc/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for watching our video's.
The "call out" was really an invitation for the young RUclips reviews to come here, hang out, listen to music and learn all they can from the experience. We are not asking them here to listen to or compare any upgrades that we've designed or review any of our products.
The upgrades are a small segment of our business. It is more of a service than any real part of our business. We offer free measuring and testing services and don't even charge for any design work that we do. Most of what you see in the upgrade videos shows a fixing of various problems. That alone is not the upgrade. Improvements in parts quality, wiring, binding posts, and controlling cabinet resonances produce improvements across the board.
Also, we are not worried about how a review will turn out. Our products have been reviewed by every major magazine online and in print, and won awards from all of them. We won the industries highest awards including awards given out at shows.
This is really nothing more than a giving of my time to help make the next generation of reviewers better.
Hi 👋 thanks for your reply.
People are so sensitive to even the slightest bit of criticism. GET A SPINE! Danny is trying to level up listening skills. I would love for you to hear the feedback I first received in my line of work ... but I am a way better professional because of it. Sometimes a swift kick in the ass is what hard headed people need to grow!
Whether his mods or speakers are better or not, you cannot criticize reviewers when you refuse to allow your product to be reviewed.
Period.
By principle, this is a hypocritical, egotistical stance. Period.
He says he wont send his products for review to people who he isnt sure has the proper space to judge them.
Well what about the people that he deems worthy? They never got a chance to review any of his products either.
In addition, to listen to many lesser speakers in a perfect room, will do wonders.
You dont get to acclaim your own products as being top of their class, if they solely perform that way in perfect environments.
If you dont believe in your product enough to allow it to be scrutinized, you are not allowed to boast as your product being superior.
The measurements he takes are simply nearfield. he doesnt mention that. They are not measured at a listening position.
Which is why his klipsch reviews and modifications are flawed. The problems he shows are in the near field, and were also reviewed by James Larsen, showing the problems found by Danny are not present at the listening position.
When you dont disclose this in your video, and pretend that you are fixing something that someone would not hear in normal use, is faulty.
So he can toss out his opinion. That's his right. But it cant hold weight, when he is just as culpable as the parties he is criticising.
@@rocketmail125 yeah I did. Hence my opinion
@@rocketmail125 uh, yeah, hence my opinion
Without going back and listening to every word in the GR research video by Danny, my sense of the gist was essentially that because most reviewers are evaluating in conditions that are largely idiosyncratic -- because they're not in treated rooms -- that their reviews (and their experience as listeners) are also idiosyncratic. In science, we'd call this an experiment tainted by lack of controlled experimentation. His invitation is, in part, an offer for people who want to wear the mantle of "evaluator" to come and hear the impact that controlling conditions can offer. I'm sure there was ego and some boosterism mixed into Danny's pitch, but the element of scientific control is certainly being lost in the blowback.
Yes, but how many homes provide ideal listening conditions? Because these non-idyllic homes are the destination of the components these reviewers are reviewing. Most of us live in the real world. The real world is rarely ideal.
@@howardskeivys4184 Agreed. Homes are practically random as a test basis. In other words, they provide zero good data. Better to have ideal conditions for more consistent comparisons.
Thanks, very interesting, well I am ready Danny send me a pair over.
Will never forget my younger days in the 70’s when most equipment was judged on measurements and we bought them on this pretext. I also remember that I had to pickup my magazine to convince myself they sounded good when really they sounded awful thank god I got out of that way on buying my equipment.
You learned better yet these so called 'experts' are still back and forth with this utter Bullshii....
Until you hear it in your room, with your music, you will never know.
Most of us can't swap out $5k speakers and take a 30% loss every time, just to find a pair that work.
Obviously if you are rich, it doesn't matter.
Yeah, GR's video on the Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands had me smirking and furrowing my brow because I actually happened to demo them. Maybe they do measure poorly (nothing was obvious or distracting), but GR failed to mention the transparency, projected image, and lifelike resolution that they produce. Those qualities really wowed me and clearly outshone any measurement iffiness. Nice to hear it wasn't just me, great video, man. Can't wait for that LS3/5a comparison :)
To astroporpoise; I had some similar experiences with Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand demo, and with a ProAc tower model (don't recall the model name) demo about two decades ago! Sounded great at first blush, but flawed technically, as I found out later.
I found it odd that Vienna Acoustics models had a different voice between the different model lines of the same production run. My favorite was the Haydn, the smallest of the line. Which one is more accurate? Don't care, I know which one I liked. Most of all I miss being able to audition speakers in a brick and mortar store and hear for myself, and not buy based on what some reviewers ears like.
He failed to mention those things because he doesn't actually listen to any of the speakers he makes mods for. He measures, changes crossovers to try and reach a measurement he prefers and that's it. He has specifically said he doesn't listen to the speakers.
@@davep2945 Danny recently measured and evaluated the parts in the KLH Model 5. He said it measured well, and that it just needed some no-rez and some slight parts upgrading, as I recall. When I commented as to why he didn't also listen to them, he answered that a customer had only brought in the one speaker. But I got the impression he wasn't that interested in listening to them anyway, even if he had the pair. Or, maybe he wouldn't have had the time. I could be wrong.
@@histubeness My guess is that strategy is to reduce shipping costs, but if the upgrades are best heard rather than measured(soundstage, imagine, spatial cues, all those things the tube connectors are suppose to improve), it leads me to believe the methodology is flawed.
Albert Von Schweikert made some very good, very expensive speakers and he would offer upgrades for his loudspeakers because he knew that even his high end loudspeakers suffered from compromises due the cost of production. Most real audiophiles will spend serious money on one tweak or another for often intangible gains.
If Danny’s measurements are legitimate then it’s hard to argue that he’s a fraud. Because back in the day, review magazines like Stereophile, Stereo Review, Audio magazine, and others would publish their own in house test measurements to back up their assessments.
I find what GR Research is doing to be as credible as any Mod company I’ve seen over the last 40 years.
Furthermore, I've built quite a few of my own crossovers over several decades, and my experience has been that it's the overall design and the synergy between all the components that matter. So, in some of my designs in a tweeter network, a more expensive poly cap actually sounded worse, harsher and more shrill, than a less expensive NPO electrolytic. Peter Comeau talks about this in his interview about the new Mission 770 speaker, and how he designed over 170 crossovers for that speaker, all of which measured very well, but it took him that many until he found one where he was satisfied with the sound.
I’ve discovered much the same, I often find poly caps harden the sound.
The room is a much underestimated influence on how speakers will sound .
I have a new set of modest price stand mount speaker's ,that sound much better well off axis or listening outside of the room 🙂
I think someone needs to do a double blind test of Walmart verses Costco wire coat hangers.
Some of this stuff is ridiculous.
Thank you for this honest video. You are spot on with your analysis of budget. That’s the whole point of different lines of speakers from a manufacturer. It truly is one of those duh things in life that GR Research is acting like he has “Golden Ears” with his test equipment, and can improve any budget speaker. Or his brand is truly amazing because of what? It’s just drivers, crossover components, and a veneered mdf box. Does his tweeters come dampened with unicorn piss?
Seriously, a person can find flaws in any affordable speaker, and then can improve them. At what cost is it really worth it?
Yeah, just buy a better speaker.
The chaps at Wilson Audio is having a laugh at all of this.
“Damped with unicorn piss” lmao 🤣
Thanks for watching 👍
what gets me is when they push components that are of a "higher quality" than that of which the music was recorded with. I don't doubt tube connectors are a quality upgrade, but if they are that superior, why don't we commonly see them on speakers costing thousands of dollars?
A friend and I bought two pairs of Sony SS CS5 speakers and a pair of GR Research upgrades. We see the imperfections of Danny's delivery. We see the imperfections of other people's presentations and the imperfections of our understanding which changes over time. My friend and I spent a couple of days working on the speakers. We A/B the before and after. We had some beers and some great dinners. We have no idea if the total cost of our speakers measures well against similarly priced speakers. We learned a lot and have a better understanding of our speakers than others speakers. I have started to do other modifications without Danny. It was an awesome experience for us. In the way that emails aren't the best way to communicate, videos aren't either. Respect differences and get together to learn and experience.
I have always believed that loudspeaker design is both an art as well as science. A good designer needs to balance these 2 elements to create a satisfying loudspeaker. As mentioned in this vid, perfect measurements don’t equate to perfect sound. In fact, the reverse is true. For eg, B&W speakers measure very poorly but imho, when they are properly driven & setup, can sound wonderful. I remember watching one of GR research’s vid where he was mulling over why he was not going to modify 3 pairs of speakers on the table. One of it was a Harbeth P3esr. I don’t know about you but Harbeth owners usually love their speakers so much that they are ever ready to diss out any other speakers irregardless of cost or size. I have owned several Harbeth speakers & i really do enjoy what they bring to the table. Tonally accurate, smooth, rich in the midrange & utterly musical. Only drawback is they are not so well versed in handling dynamic transients due to the BBC thin wall cabinet but come on every speaker regardless of cost has a draw back isn’t it? So i guess that vid must have pissed many avid harbeth users or perhaps even Alan Shaw himself. For me i generally prefer the presentation of british speakers. I like that so called BBC dip as they do make the overall sound less fatiguing. I was shocked when danny opened up the P3esr & says it uses cheesy parts in the crossover. To me, every harbeth crossover has been carefully fine tuned by Alan Shaw to perfection. He mainly designed these speakers using software as well as countless hours of fine tuning by ear. In addition, having been in this hobby for 40 over years, i have listened to many modded speakers & none of them sounded good. They measured excellent btw & technically they sound good but musically uninspiring. As the Japanese say, emotional fidelity is what makes listening to music truly satisfying. This i totally agree! I am no speaker designer but i feel that achieving flat frequency response are only a small part in the creation of musically & emotionally satisfying speakers. Peace.
100% agree. Measurements are there to establish a baseline. They confirm or make you doubt what you perceive through auditioning. Perfecting a response curve can be done in less than a day. You can stop there and be proud of the results, knowing you upgraded "super cheezy parts"(!!!). My personal experience with speaker crossover design taught me that it's a time consuming task. The more transparent the drivers are considered to be, the less forgiving your job becomes. I started this hobby hearing what i believed, now what I'm after is just the opposite...
Agreed. I posted my opinion regarding the "Calling out" video of GR Research. In a nut shell, 1. Speakers need to demoed in your room, 2. Your ears will guide you correctly, Measurements are just that, some are important but if you like speakers in your home don't get skewed by measurements.
😉
This whole audiophile subject is a huge can of worms. At the end of the day I don't care what guys like Danny say is good with his graphs, number charts, or fancy gadget measurements on paper. I only care about what is pleasing to my ear. 😁 I'd love to hear him have a discussion with Jonathan Weiss regarding the subject.
Q - is there a better way to bolster (never actually prove) your POV other than "trust me, I know what I'm doing" than with graphs and charts? It seems to always come down to this. This GR Research vid has really stirred things up. Fun times.
You're are the problem, its hard to realize how willfully remaining ignorant can damage a hobby. Measurements are like bread crumbs, no speaker with bad measurements sounds good (especially over time), and a flat frequency response is not necessarily the holy grail. Since you do not take time to learn the technical aspects of your hobby who are you to determine what a good measurement looks like and what is important. GR Research is not controversial and most reviewers are very limited in knowledge and experience...I laugh at almost all of the youtube reviewers at how little they know including Gene...lol So I don't really participate in this dumbass loser hobby anymore and I'm only interested when people like Danny who know stuff can expand my knowledge just by showing measurements of the original manufactured speakers. I took a shot at Gene but Audioholics do have nice live shows with industry experts which often share some of their valuable experiences. So I will crawl back into my hole of negativity and tinker with my system alone. Stay Ignorant Carlos!!! it is a blissful state especially regarding all things audio.
@@JurMalafi thanks 😊 obviously 30 years experience and working for Sony JVC and Celestion count for nothing in your opinion?
Speakers which measure bad but sound good..
Celestion SL series all
have a torturous impedance curve, they sound awesome for 30 year old speakers..
Actually our ears are our best judge. Guys like Danny use measurements to make choices for change. Guys like Gene at Audioholics say "if it can't be measured, then we can't here it". I'd like to think that we can hear even things that maybe can't be measured. And still everything we hear will be affected by the room in which we listen. For me it's always a pursuit for improvement.
That guy says he has the most golden ears for hearing 🤣
I'm sure reviewers love their craft of reviewing, and are probably well educated in audio.. However, Danny has the heavy gear to precision measurements, and the education to comprehend, adjust...evaluate worth doing or not (first consideration). Everyone remember the old days when good stereo shops were everywhere...nice acoustic rooms set up with tons of gear? yeah, well...those days are gone. Except for some high metro areas...the rest of the country is pretty dry for listening to gear before purchasing.
Danny could make speaker evaluations a full time gig...but he doesn't. But he does us all a service for some speakers. Other reviewers have the passion...but probably not the technical analysis gear...so what we get is an educated opinion instead of an actual analysis. Apples and oranges.
I have two pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1. I ordered the upgrades from GR Research, upgraded one set and then tested. My results were nearly identical to Danny's results. My results were measured by an audio engineer, not by myself. The sound difference was very significant. In blind A/B testing with three audiophile friends we all identified the differences and were easily able to identify the upgraded pair.
Awesome 👍
Ya, but did the upgraded pair sound better or just different?
Better is subjective. Different is real.
@@Carl-bd1rf bingo….the upgraded pair probably sounded different only & not subjectively better. I have listened to many modded speakers throughout the past 40 over yrs & none of them have sounded really better than the stock ones. They merely sounded different. The owners of the modded spks will of course initially say they sound better. But after couple more listen, decides to sell the spk. And i pity the buyer who buys the spks becos they are not aware that the said spks have been modded. I for sure will not buy anything that has been modified. No way.
@@ganck1147
Agree.
Danny was pushing his upgrade kit for the RP600M speakers. I own a pair so thought I should consider the $250 crossover upgrade kit after listening to his pitch and looking at the spectrum graph he presented.
I did some looking around on youtube and found a reviewer who had received one that had been upgraded by Danny himself.
The reviewer played music through both unmodified and modified cross over speakers in an A, B comparison test. I realized of course that it would NOT give me the same experience through youtube sound and even my good quality headphones but decided to hear what I could hear anyway.
The reviewer didn't appear to mention which speaker was which at the front of his test video, so I went into the test not knowing which was which. I listened over and over to a number of the music samples and came to the conclusion that I could tell very little if any difference. Where I could hear a difference I preferred the A speaker.
After playing through the video I found out that the A speaker was the original unmodified version.
As a sanity check I next read through the comments and found out that many had the same experience and preferred the A speaker over the modified version.
I was glad I didn't waste my money and the time I would have spent, probably a good day of time spent to do an upgrade that might have only made the speaker sound WORSE to my ears.. The only ears I needed to please.
Your commentary is really interesting. There are so many variables in a loudspeaker that can make a difference and lift the performance. They are always a compromise looking for a person who likes that compromise. The old days a speaker buyer was presented with a salesperson with a wall of speaker pairs and a gizmo, called a comparator which they would select another pair suddenly and say… “how about these?” They would discuss the comparison and then select another pair. Each one would be in sharp contrast to the one before. None would sound specifically perfect or accurate and that was what speakers had in common. A good loudspeaker communicates and appears to give a clear window onto a recording, regardless of how they measure because the brain will relate to key information and gets used to the departures from reality in the presentation. The balance between the key variables in a speaker will appeal to a particular buyer. Fixing the speaker and getting it into a better level of objective performance is laudable. The original designer’s brief and the brief of GR Research are automatically different in their goals. Their validities exists in two different spheres of possibility. It would be fun to see how improved an improved speaker is, by comparing it with an original copy. I would bet that the ideal version of the loudspeaker existed until the cost was aligned with the price point of the speaker made it into a more prosaic version that went on sale warts and all. Should we be upset? Probably not…
Hi 👋 Chris.
Absolutely right, made for interesting reading.
Thank you 😊
I watch review videos regularly but I don't really know why. Ultimately it only matters how the component sounds in your own room with your own components. I'm pretty happy with the gear I have. My main system is a pair of speakers that aren't necessarily "audiophile" speakers but for the type of music I listen to they sound great. They're a pair of ZU Audio Omen Def II's. I don't really have audiophile friends...they all think I'm nuts for spending money on stereo equipment. One of them is content with playing background music on his cell phone speaker on his porch while he has a drink/smoke. That being said I've never had anyone come in and say "your system sounds like crap." It's usually "do you have this album on vinyl" or "I have a cd in my car I want you to play." To me that's the ultimate measure of stereo equipment. If it gets you totally engaged in just listening to and enjoying your music isn't that what its all about?
Really to truthfully review anything you have to have a reference system and then A/B that component with your reference. So many of these reviews are the reviewer trying to recall how it sounds vs a component that is long gone. I don't think I could ever be a reviewer. I buy gear to enjoy my music. If something doesn't work for me I switch it out. I'm at a good place with my gear right now. Is it perfect? Far from it. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Enjoy the music!
I actually agree with you lol. I got fed up of GR telling us manufacturers were making rubbish speakers. Rather than buying some and then sending them off just buy some better ones! 🤦
but apparently none are worthy.
What he says (and he is right) is that the amount of $$$ they charge for the given worth of product is sub-par. Being in diy for years I have witnessed such a poor level of thinking and execution from many manufacturers that I am surprised they are still in business...
If it isn't broken, don't fix it... Well said mate.. I like your T shirt BTW.
I 'modded' a pair of speakers, made it worse, put them back exactly as the designer intended. Happy days. 🎶 👍 John.
I did that too but with a car 🚗 lol.
Many have an opinion on DR Work without testing his improvements…
I upgraded my Sonus FABER Venere 2.5 with GR kit. And I can say the result is fantastic. The Venere improved drastically in timing, staging, image precision’s. For sure the kit is not free but if you add 2’5k€ and 0,5 k€ you have a 3k€ speaker that easily plays in 5k€ range of speakers.
And this is logical in this range of speakers because for pricing strategy the crossover is the weakest point. Designers make nice and expensive cabinets because it is probably one of the first motivation for buying the speakers. You need also nice drivers for the same reason. So the area you can save is the crossover.
And it doesn’t mean designers of Venere didn’t make a good job. They did a good job. But there strategy was to make a very good 2,5k€ speaker and not a speaker playing in 5k range because they have other speakers in 5k range.
How many speakers manufacturers communicate on their crossover ?
I bought the GR Research kit for the Special 40 speakers and the difference is stunning. So much more transparent, fast and enjoyable.
That’s great 👍
The only upgrade kit I would ever countenance is one endorsed by the original manufacturer/designer. There are plans afoot, for example, for Thiel speaker upgrade kits by Tom Thiel and Rob Gillum, which will of course pay homage to Jim's original designs and voicing. Just taking speakers apart and hot rodding them may suit some people, but not me. There are just too many questionable variables. Apart from that, the recent GR Research video on reviews was just an appallingly inaccurate over-generalisation of how equipment is actually reviewed.
100% Chris
For the most part, Danny was accurate. Review quality is generally pretty bad because of inexperience, lack of a reference standard, poor setup, laziness, or just people who’ve been ‘bought’ in one way or another
There’s no real money in reviewing speakers unless you accept it anywhere you can - that’s also why you can’t really trust anyone. RUclips doesn’t pay well unless you have hundreds of thousands of followers. People don’t really buy magazines anymore and those were normally insanely sketchy reviews to begin with.
As for original voicing… thats not really how physics works. Speakers reproduce a signal. They do a specific job that can be measured.
@@Cujobob re: your comment on original voicing. As any devotee of Thiel knows, Jim voiced his speakers through extensive listening. You can't measure that.
@@chriswright5016 yes, you can. Anything can be measured. This is science.
@@Cujobob thanks for your comment.
I’m sorry but voicing is very real.
Example.
Celestion SL6s vs SL6si
Same drivers same cabinet same internal foam, bracing and so on, the only difference is the crossover topography and components, Alcaps in the SL6s Poly caps SL6si.
Those two virtually identical speakers have very different sonic characteristics/voiced differently.
Actual difference in sound? Si is harder in the midrange..
My point, a kit/upgrades will change the “voicing” from what the original designer intended…
The reverse is also possible..
Different components to try and achieve the original design/voicing
Derek Hughes used totally different drivers on Chartwell LS3/5a and Stirling LS3/5a than the original (Kef units) BBC designs department LS3/5a’s and yet managed to get the voicing right.
Yes he used the act of measurement on the drivers and crossovers but in his own words that’s only going to get you 80% of the way. 😊
Great video and looking forward to your upcoming new video. Any experience with Russell K speakers?
I’ve not had any at my house but my local Hifi store holds stock.
I’ve heard them many times at theirs and at Hifi shows.
Perhaps I’ll try and get a pair to review.
@@dittonworks awesome! I wonder how the Russell K Red 50 stack up to the other mini monitors you’ve heard.
@@CulinaryGod I’ve actually listened to them a few times.
Clean sounding and pretty good LF.
I’ll try and borrow a pair of those
Actually Danny's kits are often quite expensive. Sort of negating the entire point. Just spend an additional $300-$600 on "better" speakers.
Well said. Perhaps I am a little biased because I love mostly flat response speakers. With that said, I also own a pair of Klipsch RP-160Ms and though they are shouty and V-shaped in their response, they have their use cases too. I wouldn't use my flat speakers at a party, it would be Klipsch all the way. So I see what you mean about poo pooing on products and reviewers because I think they ALL have their worth.
I responded to GR's calling out video with this -
Reviews are only opinions, and like a certain part of the anatomy everybody has one which smells bad. No opinion, or reviewer, can be better than another and certainly none can look down on others or "call them out" for differing motivations or styles. Yes, it sticks in my throat that every month there is a new greatest thing. I recently subscribed to a reviewer (you mention the name), only to find in no time at all a huge "treasure trove" of new greatest things. So I unsubscribed. I see each reviewer needs a start-up reference system, along budget lines, then swap out components and describe the changes. This will provide continuity at least and a basis for comparison both between components and reviewers. The market must be the final arbiter, so consumers can rate their experience through buying reviewers recommendations and classify the reviewer accordingly. Certainly reviewers should not rate each other; that is elitism and will only result in flame wars and industry fragmentation.
For what it's worth...
The problems with measurements is it doesn't tell the full story. Certainly not in terms of your own subjective "sound quality". Trouble is, too much Hifi now is sold 99% on measurements since covid..
Your commentary is very well-balanced. I would like to offer a philosophical perspective in response to this video. It seems questionable for anyone to claim expertise on all things acoustic, especially when making controversial technical statements that dismiss individual perceptions and imply the ability to speak for every listener. Our psycho-acoustic perceptions are highly individual and change with age. Additionally, all recorded live music uses different types of microphones and recording gear, which greatly affect the sound. As a result, it's impossible to make an "absolute judgement," and a static measurement of speakers without A/B testing with a variety of music is an overstatement. Let's acknowledge the subjectivity of our individual perceptions and the complexity of acoustic phenomena, and approach these topics with humility and open-mindedness.
The fact that he doesn't send his speakers to reviewers, is that arrogance or is it insecurity? Do the customers that blindly buy his speakers have the same perfect room and sound system as GR Research has? Are the buyers perhaps ready? It's that part of his plea that bugs me. It feels to me like Danny is not ready to send his 'children' out into the real world.
Bingo
Is it arrogance or is it insecurity? You forgot confidence. Danny could have done a better job on the subject and I thought that his argument about reviewers sounded kind of full of himself. If you call him he probably will pick up the call and you can discuss his speakers or kits. I'm sort of interested in the X-over update kit for the ATCs he reviewed and I own. He loved them and found that no changes to the design were required, just some parts swapping. But I refuse to install or pay for his Electra Cable Tube Connectors. Incompatibility issues and his arguments for their superiority over a quality binding post just don't hold up and no proof.
A company like Spectral Audio that makes uber exotic components doesn't advertise or give products for review. They don't have to as all of their components runs sell out. Some products you might have to wait over a year to get. Their not arrogant, they are simply not interested in a reviewer's opinion. It's the customers and dealer network that they care about. Jay Iyagi's website ordered a pair of his speakers a few days ago to review. Might seem like something to checkout.
Anybody that wants to review his speakers that knows what he’s doing could ask Danny for a pair and I’m sure he would loan him a pair. Questioning the quality of his speaker design is really ridiculous on your part. Klipsch can afford to send everybody a pair of their slop and get good reviews from guys that don’t know how to listen so what’s the point
@@veroman007
He doesn't send his speakers to reviewers, do you understand this?
Actually my designs have been reviewed by every major magazine out there online and in print and won their highest awards. We have even won the highest awards at the shows.
The point was that many of these young RUclips reviewers are not ready to review high end products, and not just mine, any high end products. They lack the experience and just don't have the associated equipment and room needed to make such evaluations.
The video was not directed to our customers.
Danny has done a great service to the consumers buying speakers. He has made them more discerning and knowledgeable and therefore more unwilling to just hand over their dollars. The speaker manufacturers and their aides are put on notice.
Danny "magic cables & tube sleeves" Ritchie? 🤣🤣
That video having Ron on it was LMAO funny considering the Scandal Ron/New Record Day got caught-up in
Hey all, great comments....i guess i am the guy that tries to make things better and save money. I have a set of Kef Q350 and love them...they are crisp, clean and smooth. I also have a set of Sony SSCS5 3 way bookshelf speakers that are good but not great. I purchased GR Research kit for $364. I pray this kit will take the sony's to the next level? BTW the Sony's were $105. I waiting on the kit now. If you can get a Hi Fi speaker for a cheaper price then i guess the journey was worth it. We are all passionate about sound and music that is why we are hear. Keep cranking it!!!!!
We need more guys like Danny letting us know what’s really inside the stuff we’re paying hard earned money for.
I appreciate the work he’s doing..
In 'la nouvelle revue du son' journalists were publishing phase response of speakers , and apart from kef ref. and celestion sl... the other brands were so bad that the revue stopped publishing them..when i listen today to reference 102 or P60 from kef , they play top , and i can compare because having owned hifishop lots second hand equipment...and even old Ls3/5a's today play imho still in top league...but the bbc monitor kef P60 is able to reproduce realistic undistorted levels of drumkit....contrabass...with peaks of 113db anechoic....very rare are today speakers that can reproduce this ....apart from big wilsons ...etc...top expensif high end...
I never drank his coolaide...
But, many do...
GR Research only deals with speakers.So when he called out all audio reviewers,what about those reviewers who talk about amps, preamps, DACs, turntables, etc.Who is he to question someone's knowledge.How would he feel if someone said that he only has a YT channel to sell his own products
I've got some speakers that are not flat, they have their own personality. Thats why i enjoy changing them from time to time. I will not change them.
We’re all picking our favorite crayon from the box. Opinionated audiophiles often lend us to bad reviews. I like both folks, and these systems deserve scrutiny. We should make efforts to remain cordial though.
Best response and response to the response yet!! So well-reasoned and unemotional. Great points across the board, the most significant of which is that David is seizing on the “controversy” to promote his own channel - and that’s a little, as the kids like to say, cringey.
Thank you.
Back to speakers soon 😉
I would like to see some videos of speakers after a GR Research upgrade
100%
I absolutely love you Kef conclusion and I can't agree more with you. Average speakers + kit + labor = buy better speakers to begin with and enjoy your music.
You are spot on mate. Danny seems to have made a living out of crapping on everyone else's parade. The man with the Alchemist's Stone - he will breathe new life into your speakers and give them immortality. There were some of us who had a bit of a to and fro with him on his Wharfedale Linton bash - I guess you can take a horse to the water, yeah ??
Actually no, people send their speakers to Danny, he doesn't just pick them himself, and most likely because they're unhappy about their performance or maybe see if he can improve their performance. It's surprising how many companies building even three, four, five thousand dollars and up systems might have $20.00 worth of network parts in them. And while spending $350.00 on an update kit for a pair of Sony's that you might be able to get for around a hundred bucks sounds high, the quality of the parts is high(I really want to hear a set of these) and he did a complete redesign of there networks, his time is worth something and apparently there are enough customers out there warranting an upgrade kit. Plus I think Danny is a straight-up person, talking to him a few times already about maybe upgrading my speakers (a pair he likes and didn't feel a need to redesign, just replace parts; a Danny first?) I get the impression he truly believes in what he says and I believe it even when I disagree with him about one or two things. Interestingly I spoke to the speaker Manufacturer and I told them what i was planning to do to them and they seemed okay with it. Asked why they did not use better parts, the response was every additional dollar spent adds like five dollars to the retail cost. Multiply that by four or five hundred bucks and well, if you're handy enough to do the mods, why not. I'm getting old, maybe old enough to not want to do them myself.
I am perfectly ok with subjective perspectives. In the beginning, that's what RUclips was all about, real people doing home-made reviews etc. In many ways, I prefer it.
I personally have no problem with what Danny was saying and I certainly have no problem understanding David's response either - - I subscribe to both channels - "My Own Devices" is among the most "honest" channels out there, I hope David never changes his approach - - myself, having gone down the road of upgrading crossovers back in the eighties, way before the Internet or You Tube, I get exactly where Danny is coming from as well - and - there's not a shadow of doubt in my mind that he's making improvements. Are the improvements at the level he implies? That's an unknown and at the root of all of the concerns and commenting - - so, as for Danny's assertion that some reviewers may not be ready or up to the task of evaluating his work, my initial reaction was that he's referring to the "associated gear and acoustic surroundings" being employed, not whether said reviewer isn't personally up to the task of hearing the improvements he claims, that is, it's not so much about their personal evaluation skills, rather it's their associated equipment and listening room. On the other hand, he implies that he has a reference listening rig and listening space and that's part of the evaluation of his modifications - - and, yes, that's a subjective argument anyway, like, who's to say what is reference etc. So yes, I do love "My Own Devices", but again, that doesn't mean that I don't understand Danny's concerns albeit it that I don't personally think, reference or not, that a reviewer couldn't evaluate what he does. In the specific case of "My Own Devices" and whichever components David is telling us about, where is the reference? It's not there - but again, that doesn't mean that I don't love his channel, I do, watch every posting and believe every description he offers about the gear he's listening to, none of that gear, as least as far as I remember, being "subjectively" reference, at least by "today's" or modern standards and I doubt that David himself would argue that - With the addition of some reviewers possibly being a bit biased to generally give positive reviews, I believe those types of issues have more to do with Danny's expressed concerns than again, the reviewers actual listening skills. It seemed like many took his posting with New Record Day personally but I highly doubt that was his intention.
Thanks for your detailed reply.
Keep in mind that DR is a very experienced audio professional who is able to focus his listening skills on precisely the design changes that he is making. Is he likely to hear "differences" that I cannot, absolutely. I don't doubt that his design changes tend to be "directionally correct" but would I pay $$ expecting to hear these differences for casual listening enjoyment, probably not.
Good job David for calling him out!
I stopped listening to Danny a year ago. In his unmodest opinion, his speakers are the best despite customers complaining about driver failures. I found some unicorn 3 way speakers at a garage sale with 15" woofers so I'm not looking for more gear now. I have 4 complete systems plus a DIY boombox with a 10" sub in it.
you can't build a speaker on measurements alone he never listens to any of the measurement upgrades I called him out on that.
what it charges for upgrade crossovers is ridiculous and I don't believe the parts that good not the inductors for the price .
too many good kits out there that are cheaper than what he's charging for some crossover upgrade like Mark audio drivers and a cabinet blueprints.
have a go and build a kit make some good videos you're be impressed.
I don't believe his own speakers are original either, they are from a Dutch design, in the late 80s early 90s I was getting tons of mail order I recognise those open baffle designs.
Measurements are only 20% of the sound if at best. If measurement are as important Danny Richie makes them out to be, then we’d have great speakers from every one. It’s not difficult to design a good measuring speaker yet still sound like crap.
Most of the best speakers I've ever had the pleasure to listen to are no longer available. My youngest son is 13 and he has never heard a vinyl record. He has never played a CD and nor does he care to, and at the rate things are going he may never drive a car.
That’s very true..
Some spares are no longer available for some amazing speakers.
I take it your son is just using his phone for music?
@@dittonworks :Yep
Many people around the world have heard Danny's flag ship speakers at high end audio shows and claim that his speakers are world class speakers.
I’ve never disputed that.
If you watched the video? I’m talking about his upgrade kits.
Thank you, well said. I would say, just listen (to it).
This is what I see wrong with Danny's approach to "making speakers better" by modifying the crossover.
1) A speaker is the sum of all it's parts, not just the cross over. Tweeter, woofer and cabinet are equally or even more important. Manufacturers tune everything together, not parts individually. Post GR mod, I have read people claiming that the speaker is dramatically different and others have written that they cannot tell any difference at all. This is probably why Danny does not post any audio of before and after mods. A few people have posted A/B comparisons of his speaker mods on youtube and I personally could not identify any difference via youtube audio format, using my headphones, for those particular speakers. If I want to step up the sound quality of my speakers, I am going to be looking for a speakers that offer a better package on ALL levels, not just the crossover.
2) The customer is doing the modifications. Depending on that person's skills, abilities, experience and tools the end result can vary drastically. The person modifying can actually damage the speakers, scratch up the cabinet, poorly secure parts and compromise the factory seal resulting in new vibrations, noises and cosmetic defects that were not previously there. In that scenario, the result would be a speaker sounding and measuring worse, despite now having $400 worth of crossover components. Me personally, I am not willing to tear apart and dissect a pair of gorgeous and perfectly functional speakers.
3) The average enthusiast, with their average gear and average listening space would not be able to determine the difference nor be able to pinpoint which speaker has what crossover.
4) Flat frequency response is not desired by all users. Especially those people who use their speakers for dual duty home theater and music.
Trouble is, some speakers may benefit more from Danny's work than others, so doing that A-B test with factory vs modified speakers will only tell about his work on those speakers alone. The other consideration, this from one who has built alot of speakers over many decades, is that whereas Danny's work is certainly legit, and he no doubt improves the speakers he modifies, the much larger variable (and he intimates this in his videos) involves the quality of the drivers. So an improved speaker with poor quality drivers will not benefit as much from an improved speaker with high quality drivers. One other point I will make while I'm here, is that whereas Danny chases flat response as his central goal, some speakers that do not have flat response from the factory may have been developed with non-flat response deliberately as a means of voicing them, given the character of the drivers, to give them a desired sound. Since all drivers sound so very different, there is really no such thing as a correct or true sounding speaker.
Completely correct.
If people wanted speakers with a flat response, there would be a much larger market for studio monitors!
@@howardskeivys4184 That is an entirely different topic, one that is easily misunderstood. But studio engineers can tell you why they use studio monitors and not hifi speakers, and the sales folks at the high end shops can tell you why customers prefer hifi speakers vs studio monitors. It has to do with application, and doesn't make sense on the surface but is legitimate nonetheless. One other point to make about flat response - and I'll use an example to make the point, which also on the surface seems to defy reason. I can set up two tweeters (I have done this many times) in my active system so no passive crossover parts in the signal path, and in each case balance the output for flat response, and one tweeter will sound MUCH brighter than the other. This is why two speakers each with a flat response profile can sound so very different from each other.
Super interesting!!! to hear you are going to pit the Falcon Acoustics LS3/5a against the Graham LS3/5. Will those be the Falcon Gold Badge, Silver Badge or MoFi Edition? And I would also love to hear your impressions of how the Graham SUB3 works with both the Falcon and Graham speakers while I'm putting my wish list together.
My Silver LS3/5a vs My Chartwell LS3/5
I don’t have the SUB3 to review, sorry.
I’ve not felt the need for the sub with the Falcon’s
@@dittonworks Cool!!! Thanks!!! Can’t wait to hear your observations.
But are measurements a definitive way of Quantifying sound quality?
I don't believe that to be the case and I tell you why because the best amplifier I have ever heard bar none and it had the best dynamics ,the best punch ,the best slam and the ability to vividly portray not only the soundstage but make it feel that what you were listening to was real and thats the croft phono integrated amplifier. I think a Polish magazine reviewed it and they tested it and said it had some thing like 1% THD and something like a 70% signal to noise ratio,I think most tube-based amplifiers measure better. I have it hooked up to an older pair of klipsch heresy loudspeakers and as I said it is the most real sounding piece of hi-fi I have ever heard.
True, back in the '70s, when I was in Japan, the base HiFi shop had all the best gear in a separate room hooked up to a Bose something or other 250 wpc beast with .5 thd. (only Bose I would actually maybe buy) They didn't even sell that amp there. It just sounded really good.
It's interesting to hear all the comments back and forth on Danny's video. For me, I get to hear the comments from reviewers like yourself that I didn't know were out there. So for me its a boon. More channels. New reviewers (to me). You could say more opinions to cloud my choices. Or I could say more information is always better. New points of view. This community is much larger than any of us think it is. There will always be, disagreements, arguing and call outs. It's looking more like a family dinner. But I am happy to have an even larger list of go-to reviewers for more information. Thanks and keep doing what is actually a service to our shared interest/ hobby/ passion.
Thanks for watching.
@Ditton Works Actually the pleasure is mine and all viewers of audiophile aspiration.
That is not what GR Research does. Their main business is selling their OWN speakers and speaker kits. Their "restoration" kits are per customer requests. I am not so into measurements too. But speaker measurements have a close correlation to the actual sound. If a speaker chassis is "booming" you WILL hear it. If a driver is stressed you WILL hear it. If the bass or the midrange or the tweeter section is prominent you WILL hear it. What Danny said is that you need to have a reference high enough against whom all the others can be judged. And that reference MUST be a superb speaker system in a nicely treated room with top quality components. When that is surpassed you need to upgrade your reference...and that is how the story goes. He said that he understands that not everybody has the means to create such a system...and at least he offered his premises to fill up that void to anyone who is concerned. And that is a good thing. Too bad that certain reviewers egos got hurt. Their bad.
Well said Kevin i don't actually know either of the channels which you mention however what you explain, contrast and compare makes eminent sense.
Thanks Tim.
My Own Devices is a pretty good channel. David did a great video on Celestion SL6s vs si
I guess one point is that some mfg actually is cutting the cost of components and build quality more than the price for the customer. Some really are cheaply made, and should really be exposed for it, primarily by reviewing them properly.
I guess it comes down to a false economy and products that is subjectively judged, not easy.
I really don't have a dog in that fight. I'm an old retired fart who probably couldn't afford most of the speakers yall are talking about. I bought an old pair of (cheap) jbl bookshelfs. Didn't like them at all. As you say, they are built to a price point. I rebuilt them using better materials for the cabinet and the crossover got air core inductors and film caps (they had electrolitics) . You wouldn't think they are the same speakers now, they sound amazing. I don't know about measurements, but materials do make a difference.
Never pooh pooh a pooh pooh. General Melchet
Well done darling you beat me to it sorry Martin your not my darling it’s all pooh pooh
What hoo and carry on
I enjoy ''regular guy'' subjective reviews much more than a bunch of measurements. I also question the integrity of some RUclipsrs whenever financial gain is involved. It's like when I read a hi-fi magazine and see a rave review of a product on page 32 and a paid advertisement for the same product on page 56.
I only had one experience with Danny and if I were to judge him based on that one experience I would NOT recommend him. Fortunately it did not cost me too much and IF he has many loyal customers then maybe my experience was the exception and not the rule.
As for modding speakers...I have had mixed experiences tinkering with upgrading components with boutique parts. It can be a very deep rabbit hole and you have to ask yourself if there's a real benefit to adding $500 of mods to a $1000 speaker vs buying a $1500 speaker from the same manufacturer. You'd think that these well established companies have the engineering chops to do it better than some guy operating out of his garage. Unless of course all the expenses are going into publicity and marketing. This is a great hobby isn't it?
Thank you for that great reply.
After few days to reflect on this, I’ve realised controversy really sells..
Danny’s video probably boosted his hits and subs, I’m sure David loved the attention.
Completely by accident, I’ve had the most views and comments in the shortest period of time since I started this channel.
Interesting the level of response on a pretty pointless non educational video..
Anyway….
Back to talking about speakers soon 😉
Enjoyed your video. Something else to keep in mind that never seems to get mentioned. Modifying a speaker by taking it all apart can stress the cabinet. In particular, I'm talking about the screws that attach the drivers to the front baffle. Taking the drivers off, and then putting them back on has the side-effect of stressing the MDF material - and if done enough times would certainly weaken the seal between the drivers and the front baffle - perhaps leading to unwanted resonances. You want an omelette - well, you've got to crack some eggs, but the risk is you may find pieces of egg shell in your meal.
Which speakers measure poorly that sound really good and likewise which speakers that measure really well that sound dead or bad?
Well said sir.....I like Danny's channel, his reviews/research are scientific and very interesting if you are into speakers.
BUT......all the big boy manufactures have the same test kit as GRR and could easily make flat response low distortion speakers....
That is what we know as 'studio monitors' which add or take away nothing from the music....
However, if you have ever listened to a great pair of studio monitors, they can become fatiguing.... as the the sound is very 'in your face', they are doing what they should do....give you everything....good and bad.
Our ears are not scientific oscilloscopes.........they require emotion which is why pre production HIFI speakers go through factory listening tests where the flat response computer generated crossovers start to get tweaked....so the human ear can enjoy the emotion.
Yes the 'cheesy' xover parts as Danny calls them are a pain....but that's where if you wish, you can upgrade them.
Vintage Tannoy DC owners have been doing it for years!!!!
Fantastic reply and quite correct.
I like My Own Devices, but I found that 'call-out' video to be quite odd. It seemed to come out of nowhere, and seemed to me to be somewhat juvenile. Maybe there was some underlying reason for the call-out, but still...
Your points actually support why Danny should not call our reviewers based on the job they do. There really is no room in this hobby for a negative video like Danny published....he may have actually done more damage to himself that anything else. Not a great strategy on his part. Ears are the ultimate tool.
Danny's Call Out, which it really wasn't was more of a self-promotion and sometimes in life if you don't say what is difficult to be said, then you never really get an answer to your question and start the discussion. Danny knew this was going to be controversial, but it did what was intended, it started a conversation, which is really needed with more topics in this great country of ours.
This was really about Danny's speakers and his Room; he actually had more praise for the people he called out. Taking Danny's speakers out of the equation, the actual room that we listen to is actually not as much a consideration for some as we would like to believe. I think we would all be surprised at how much performance is actually left on the table with a properly treated room, even with a $500-$2500 system. Danny's speakers were never a consideration for me.
Anyone who's been into HiFi for an extended period knows gear can be modded out for the better or worse. Depends on the pair of ears.
Everyone knows Klipsch for instance measure like shit, and are generally very bright speakers, and audiophile's tend to poopoo them, but they still sell a metric shit load of them, lots of people like that ear piercing sound of the Klipsch horns. Please don't think I'm saying I don't think measurements matter, because I think they do especially when talking about bass, I run a MiniDSP on my subs and it's game changing, the miniDSP blended my subs so well, my bookshelves sound like a full range tower, you won't know a sub was even in the room if you weren't sitting in front of it.
I would be curious to ear what the companys have to say about these uogrates : Focal , Sonus Faber , Paradigm , etc.
Here's my complaint with Danny and GR - his gig is not designing a new crossover and selling you the plans for that and letting you buy the level of parts you can afford, because a certain value cap or inductor will be that value no matter whether it's an inexpensive one or a costly one, and, so if his improved designs give better measured performance, then the same crossover using cheaper parts will still measure better and ostensibly give better performance. But, that's not what he does- his gig is selling those crossover kits with high priced parts that he sells at a very hefty profit, far more than you would spend on those parts if you bought them yourself, IMO. The question is- is the increased cost he charges too much, taking into account the engineering work he has done designing the improved crossovers, in addition to the cost of the improved parts, and in my opinion, the answer is yes. I think the cost of his kits is far too much for what you get, even accounting for the design work he's done. After all, he's done this so much for so long that he can crank out a workable design very quickly with little effort, IMO. And, as you said, just because something measures better doesn't necessarily mean it will sound better. The few examples online that are available of his before and after work aren't worth the cost to me. In some cases the original sounds better to me, in some cases I hear little to no difference, and in the cases where I do hear a difference and new design sounds better, it's too little of a difference to justify the cost of the kit. That's my opinion on the subject. I also really don't care for his overinflated ego, and the fact that he thinks he's the smartest guy on the planet and knows more than many celebrated designers that have been doing it since he was still in grade school. If he knows so much, then why is he working out of a little small shop selling speaker and crossover kits, and not designing systems for some of the biggest companies in audio? Finally, his measurements of some well known speakers don't reflect what other extremely expert testers measure, like John Atkinson for instance, who has also been doing this for decades longer than Danny has.
All very true DM.
Thank you for reply..
Agree 100%. He did a video that trashed 5 small speakers, but if I already have them, it's much cheaper to reuse the cabinets and likely the bass drivers and upgrade the tweeter and crossovers which can be done economically if I go direct to the parts suppliers and upgrade using the same values. THAT'S what he is trying to hide, and it is short-sighted because he loses all credibility with me. That, plus I often get a morning-after hang-over vibe from him.
Danny is not very thorough with measurements. Amirm at ASR is very thorough with measurements. Danny is a snake oil salesman selling tube connectors, wires etc...
Love your honesty and realistic approach to the whole Hi-Fi subject
👍
Thanks Mikey B
Nice response to OwnDevices.
By the way are you on any other Social media platforms like Insta, FB?
Yep Ditton Works FB
Very fair assessment. I’ve also spoken w Danny and he crapped on my speakers and admittedly said he’d never heard them. But Danny is a nice guy.
You nailed it.
I appreciate that all speakers are built to a budget and that sometimes that forces the manufacturers to make compromises with components. I’ve watched many of GR Researches videos. All I hear and see is measurements, measurements, measurements. I’m not saying that Danny does not make improvements to speakers, but in the 35 years that I’ve been into audio, one of the biggest and most important lessons I’ve learned is that measurements and specifications should be used only as a general guideline.Ultimately your purchasing decision should be influenced by 2 things, your wallet and your ears.
To be honest, I would not spend £2000 on a pair of speakers I’m not totally happy with and then spend £500 trying to improve them. I would rather spend £2500 on a purchase I was happy with!
I have just watched G R Reasearches latest video. Duration 11 minutes. Danny used the term ‘measure’, ‘measures’, ‘measured’, ‘neasurem’, or ‘measurement’, no less than 17 times and didn’t use the terms ‘sound’, ‘audio pdrforma’, once! What is he trying to achieve? A totally flat response speaker or what the end consumer is looking for, a speaker with character and individuality. If I wanted a speaker with a totally flat response, I’d buy a pair of studio monitors!
@@howardskeivys4184 Fellows, there is a lot more that goes into our upgrades than just correcting the balance of the response to a more accurate level. We spend thousands of hours listening to and comparing every single part down to the wire and connectors. The end goal is and has always been better sound, and that is what we offer.
@@dannyrichie9743 I’ve just passed comment on ‘the boomer consumer’s’ rebuttal to your ‘calling out the reviewers’. Take a look at and let me have your thoughts.
@@howardskeivys4184 Where?
@@dannyrichie9743 the Boomer Consumer!
Gr is jus telling what we should know or least suspect, if you can't see it they probably cheaped out on it. It's the same with pc, look at dell pcs, especially their alienware line. That said I think Danny is ocd about measurements but expecting reviewers to be ocd about reviewing them is unrealistic. Picking on critics is always a bad idea, as they can take things personal and i'm sure we will see more vids in response.
I have little doubt that what GR research does will improve speaker performance. Better parts almost always sound better. Having said that, measurements on speakers come pretty close to "Nice to know information". I say that because frequency response will vary in each and every room you put that speaker in. Off axis response will vary based upon side wall distances. Bass response will vary based upon room placement. High frequency response will vary with toe in, toe out. The ONE measurement that NEVER changes from room to room is STEP RESPONSE. It's never mentioned, rarely measured. Any speaker that performs well on a step response, I would argue would also perform well on any musical notes. Apparently RUclips audio reviewers don't understand this simple concept.
John Atkinson often measured step response however yet again some speakers with measured “bad” step response don’t always sound bad.
Thanks for commenting
There is a fundamental problem with not making money ton videos or reviews. As you stated, you cant afford to buy speakers and review them. So your channel will just go away. You do it for fun.
So with that premise, if all reviewers take the stance not to accept review samples, not to monetize their videos, there would no independent reviewers.
Only corporate ones owned by the brands.
Any brand, Danny included that takes a stance against reviewers as a whole, damage the idea of independent reviewers with different opinions on the same products.
For Danny to call out anyone or the entire You Tube community of reviewers is just a BRAND saying that they "Dont know what they are talking about"
Sounds something a big brand like bose would say. or Sony. Or Denon.
"Our product measure great in our lab. You must not be setting it up correctly."|
Steve Jobs once said "You are holding it wrong"
Harmonic distortion might actually be good to flavour the output sound. A lot of people like variety in flavor, be it food, cars or a lot more, speakers included. So Harbeths are not supposed to sound like Radihos. Buying a speaker means buying that house flavor too. Bringing everything tightly to a set Harman curve defeats exactly that. I am not sure about those speaker kits or the end results as I have no personal experience. But when I saw major brands being faulted on said channel, it was like a blow on the noggin to the engineers who spent years trying to build and perfect a speaker. That wasn't cool.
Exactly, voicing is being completely ignored..
Way off here. When Danny "fixes" a speaker most of them are flawed, sometimes just by the process of mass production. Your Ferrari requires tuning once you take delivery, Danny is tuning a mass production POS speaker. That is all. If they were so worried about their years of engineering work they would make sure their POS speakers weren't sold to unwitting customers. Seriously if you built a kit, maybe one from SEAS.NO and learned how a speaker actually works. Danny would make much more sense. Keep in mind people send their speakers to him, he doesn't select the speakers to improve. So if your butt hurt because you didn't know Klipsch and B&W sucked....hello McFly!
@@JurMalafi learned how a speaker works!?
Regarding this subject and also your shirt...I modified a pair of Levi's with with a pair of scissors and a cup of bleach. They were far more transparent when I finished. Cost was less than $1. I have a kit i sell to do this mod but it's not going so well because the shipping runs more than the parts.
I'm sorry, I don't understand the message here...so forgive me if I missed the oblivious.
By this rationale, if someone comes out with a suspension kit for a car, does that suspension company have to provide another car in stock form for you to compare??
The whole point would be to offer something that might improve something and it's ultimately up to the customer to try it correct?
I agree that measurements don't tell the whole story, if so then a turntable would sound horrible.
Gr research gives a fair evalution of cost and benefits...and fair pricing...
Well said****
Well said. I like those reviewers who compare speakers by playing some songs and comparing them alternately with the same volume & tone settings. These guys have good gadgets to do the comparison. Speaker comparison by Crutchfield is such an example. First, I look at the spec sheet or info. of the speakers. Then, I use my ears for comparison. I watch reviewers who talks a lot. Each describe a speaker being "laid back" or "warm" etc. all the time. Maybe Danny is talking about these guys. GR research, play some music before and after you are done with the speaker. Man, put some music on and stop the talk! Let me hear how they sound. What is laid back or warm on your ears may not be the same as mine. How many people out there actually buy speakers often (like changing underwear). Do you think they know what is WARM OR LAID BACK?
you make some good points. Thanks
Measurements are all good and real but, can I hear it? GR does do good content but you have to remember he selling a product. Does upgrading poor components help? I’m sure it does but again, can I hear it or are they just better components? At the end of the day it’s about the music and does the music sound good. GR can have their measurements and I’ll have my ears.
FYI. GR sells their own line of speakers. THAT is what the issue is about not upgrade packages. And he refuses to send them to reviewers.
We have never refused to send out products for review. Our products have been reviewed by every magazine online and in print and won every award they offer. My issue is with some of the new generation of reviewers not being ready, and not just not being ready to review our products, I mean not being ready to review any high end product.
"I am not really bothered. I don't care." And yet you ramble on and on about the issue. You do care or you wouldn't have posted the video. Carry on.
Can we all just enjoy this hobby without all the drama. Audio is personal like food or fashion. The business aspects of audio marketing is never ever going to change...Just live and let live and enjoy the music.attacking GR research or any reviewer is just beyond me.
Danny often describes the said "improvements" in flowery subjective hifi terms nearing silly jibberish anyway...
Well-made points. Thanks!
Most of the gr videos I’ve watched, most speaker makers are making poor speakers, cabinets, crossovers, components etc. even high end makers. Not in my opinion though.
I agree with you and don't , Only thing i object to what Danny was saying is he didn't call you out on your hat 😁
95% of speaker design engineers do not know how to design an accurate crossover. ONLY 1st order crossovers can be time coherent. Others (4th order) can be phase coherent, but ever time coherent. Ask any musician if timing is important in music.
Luckily I’ve had, heard and worked with the 5% who do. 😊