As a Scouts player, I'm not pleased. It feels like these changes were written by someone who has never played the faction. The lazy changes and the lack of a dev team video reek of "late in the edition" apathy.
I cannot believe the exaction squad's manacles haven't been boosted to work on 8 wound models. They really did give the team a fun, unique mechanic and then say it only works against like 6 teams in the game
It seems like it’s been a theme since launch that the balance sheets mostly ignore non-combat equipment and Tac Ops. Probably a nightmare to balance and playtest something when it’s effect on the game isn’t just changing a number, so I understand why - but it feels bad, seeing teams get boring stat changes when it looks like there are so many other levers they just didn’t touch.
Hearthkyn Salvager player here! I played a game last night with the new dataslate rule and I have to say the new buffs are especially good on Gallowdark. Being able to move up to and alpha objective, securing a room and setting up is an absolute fortress with plasma knives , the Theyn’s weavefield 4+ invuln (which is harder to kill now with that damage negation) and a well placed barrier. The fact that damage can be reduced by 1 helps with survivability massively with the amount of 3/4 weapons in the game Pairing that with the grenadier’s utility grenade making it harder to approach or reducing the distance of enemy weapons to Red (which was especially useful against the pathfinder with a silent weapon, i forget the name), as well as the dozr positioned just inside the door and the full adoption of all the tokens and shenanigans, Fort Knux was real! Can’t wait to keep maining these guys, they aren’t suddenly S tier over night, but they are starting to feel like a tough bastards that I wanted them to be!
@@CanYouRollaCrit For sure, I think mastering getting into the midrange and growing when a grudge is more valuable than a dwarf presents a pretty precarious play style (which can go horribly wrong if you're even slightly too ambitious in moving up the board), but they've always been the team I find most enjoyable to play (that is until I compete my nemesis claw I imagine haha)
Salvagers have had so many extra rules tacked on at this point that gw needs to release their rules in print again. Not always fun starting at old information and having to cross check a pdf
What’s crazy is they were released WITH the Fellgors: one team was clearly underpowered while the other was wildly overpowered. This to me proves KT has no playtesting at all.
I really hope that the new edition doesn't change too much of the (in my opinion) very good core rules. Maybe a few rule simplifications and clarifications. But I hope it won't be a complete overhaul.
Yeah, now scout Marines using Knives strong like a Powersword while the Sergeant has to use a rusty chainsword. And the Primaris units are weaker than the new recruits... Who the hell thinks this Is Logic...
I read this dataslate and instantly called Gellarpox the winner. Glad to see I’m not alone. Also the number of changes some factions are getting is nuts. That said, I’d rather they keep trying to get it right than just leave some teams in the dust.
Legionary roster update is nice. Although i hope next edition they just scrap rosters altogether. Kill team doesn't need them, assuming they don't make some big changes.
Rosters are bad because teams either completely ignore them, or are indirectly nerfed because of them. It's either a neutral or negative experience @@CanYouRollaCrit
I really hope the next edition of Killteam doesn’t change much, just cleans up some messily written rules and maybe adds minor changes. If they try to simplify it like 10th or, god forbid, put it on a damn grid I’m gonna be devastated
@@CanYouRollaCrit yeah that’s what I’m hoping. Also hope the bespoke teams get to keep their rules and the new ones keep a similar style so all the teams I made aren’t immediately invalidated
@@neeeeeeeek9 List of sugested changes to fix kroot / farstalkers while keeping some kind of operative skill restrictions. Essential: The pistolier can move and shoot twice (not charge) Dogs back to GA2 Stalker can do the special charge like now in conceal or at maximum range but in engage Cut-skin can attack two different targets (only if he kills the first one?) Surely necessary: Stalker loses the extra die Cut-skin with damage 3/5 If they continue to struggle: Buf Prey Meat at the beginning or end of activation Warriors with GA1 Triballest 4/5? Not sure but nice to fix: Secondary combo, remove it?
@@Ralai14 great list of suggestions here! i do agree with pistolier and cut skin buffs, cuz right now they feel like they wanna deal damage but just can't GA1 on the dogs really helped them imo. sometimes GA2 can be hardto setup and may require you to waste a turn/sacrifice a model if only one dog was properly setup either way, hoping to get a whole wall of text for kroot in the next balancing 🤞
I run Intercession, Phobos, and Scouts. Unfortunate to see Intercession didn’t get any fixes. Would have loved to see them improve their tactics, or change them up, or be more flexible in switching between them. I think their loadout and equipment is fine. Phobos seems fine enough, like more tricksy Intercession. Scouts going to 10 seems fine to test the waters, but that knife change? That’s broken. Just as a comparison, it hits as hard as a Custodes sentinel blade. Literally ZERO thought went into that. I predict that will be reverted. If I’m playing locals or against buddies, I’m personally not implementing/enforcing that combat blade change.
Very nice looks like my Inquis agents can take some exaction squad support, also the hipster in me can finally play felgor without feeling like a meta slave. Also all the players who stuck with scouts deserved those buffs ^^
I get that intercession is an intro/middle of the road team, but it could be legitimately competitive when introduced. I too was hoping for a small buff, as they are increasingly getting gatekept by new teams.
Thanks, some interesting changes. I guess Scouts couldn't stay worse than Yaeghir... And still no excuse to use a Corsair Heavy Gunner. Oh well, it can proxy a regular one just because it looks cool then.
The knives change for the Scouts is silly. It makes no sense from an in-universe perspective. I’m glad I never built my team because I was considering the option of building a second sgt.
Needed some explosion effects for the intro and outro. Surprised there was nothing for Kroot or Breachers, but I guess they are out of ideas. Also, RIP Intercession.
Great video ^^ Phobos has the same knife... but they forgot how to use it. With the Eldar they matched the rifles of all their kill teams. Will they do the same?
You know what I am going to say about the Scouts... WTH? None of the common sense recommendations (like remove LOS from the Sgt's +1 APL & add Cumbersome for the Hvy Weapons Gunners)... The +1 Warrior operative is just lazy. And the change to the combat knife is just plain weird. Well, at keast you have (once again...) proved that you are not a playtester. 😂
good review! still a bit confused about the necron's reanimation though... so they are not getting healing after being reanimated because it now says "instead"?
Nerfing Pathfinders in ITD makes no sense to me. It's true that they are OP in the other modes, and the nerfs there make sense, but why a further ITD nerf, where they pretty much auto lose anyway?
I’m not sure what you mean by running all shotguns and knives for the scouts? They don’t have knives as equipment just the extra blade that gives a knife balanced. You still have to decided between the super shotgun and the super knife
Hierotek nerf awful. I think the best way is to make it without rolling dice ever (so you gain more control over your reanimations), than its ok that you use reanimation after living metal. And technomancer should be like +2 to reanimation and living metal, instead of +1. So if you pick Chono - you should play more risky, but have nice abilities. And your wounds after reanimation will be like D3+2=3-5, 2 res/round. And if you pick Techno - you become really tanky D3+5=6-8, 3 res/round
@@CanYouRollaCrit maybe, but it looks like if you try to rush with chrono - you will die fast. So your opponent just can play def at first and rush on 2+ round. And if you take Techno - you play constatly aggressive, but almost without your leader. GW change awful cause its not making other crypteks valuable, dont fix problems of team. Just making the whole team worse and less necron'ish
@@CanYouRollaCrit Also its very strange, cause in article about dataslate they said "slight adjustment" and not a "we saw that this team kill everyone, so we made equal changes to them". Its strange and looks like mistake
Dwarf buffs? Love to see it the dozer is still my favorite model in kill team For the love of the emperor GW do something with Kroot. I wish they’d get a proper rework like hierotek got back in the day but damn at this point I’ll take basically anything that actually helps them
@@CanYouRollaCrit the scouts are probably the single least interesting team in the game to me. I simply could not be less interested in them good or bad. But I imagine GW has a contractual obligation to keep space marines high tier and since the others have fallen off I guess it’s this teams turn
@@CanYouRollaCrit The Reckless Determination nerf is fairly huge, can no longer auto retain two saves if getting shot in cover, makes them much more vulnerable to TP1 shooting.
@@CanYouRollaCrit Never on ITD, but depending on an open board's layout (*cough* Dallas Open *cough*) you'd need to be in light cover just to try to score.
I think living metal happen before reanimation is reasonable. When i read living metal happen AFTER reanimation i was like "yo what? Did they mistype it? That doesn't make sense to me"
@@CanYouRollaCrit wait wait wait wait, wording problems here Living metal > reanimation right? Not reanimation > living metal since that means Hierotek got healed TWICE
@hoshi314 the order is now resolve living metal first for operatives in the killzone. Next you then roll for reanimation and roll for the operatives' wounds for d3+2 each
@@CanYouRollaCrit How do you know they revert back to the old wording? If they changed it to where Living Metal happens before Reanimation then it would be written that way in this updated balance sheet. It doesn't specifically say its reverting back to the old wording? Is that confirmed somewhere or are you just assuming?
@@CanYouRollaCrit Balance Dataslate, first page, Hazardous Areas, second bullet point. Core Rules Errata document, second page, Close Quarters, first entry.
I think Hierotek just changed from D3+3 to D3+2. They didn´t include the wording for timing in the Dataslate, so it should still be "In the Ready Operatives step of each Turning Point, before resolving the Living Metal ability, roll one D6 for each of your Reanimation tokens. On a roll of 1, leave that Reanimation token in the killzone. On a 2+, operatives are successfully reanimated:"
That Hierotek Circle nurf is WAY too much. Going down to +2 instead of +3 was okay, but if its true and living metal does not happen after reanimation anymore, that is just dumb.
I take the devs intended to make this change in a thematic way. Like, the opponente smashes a Necron and that android starts to re-assemble itself from pieces. It is logical that the Necron does not come back fully operational, but Injured instead. However, many buffs/nerfs to other teams have been done compleately in a stupid way
I have a question for Hierotek and this is probably because I have poor reading comprehension 🥲 but where is it written than reanimation happens after living metal?
As a Scouts player, I'm not pleased. It feels like these changes were written by someone who has never played the faction. The lazy changes and the lack of a dev team video reek of "late in the edition" apathy.
Yeah it goes against the narrative too
To be fair, a scout doing a backflip would look really sick.
Wicked sick scout bro
I cannot believe the exaction squad's manacles haven't been boosted to work on 8 wound models. They really did give the team a fun, unique mechanic and then say it only works against like 6 teams in the game
Yeah working vs 8w would be fine, no idea why not changed
It seems like it’s been a theme since launch that the balance sheets mostly ignore non-combat equipment and Tac Ops. Probably a nightmare to balance and playtest something when it’s effect on the game isn’t just changing a number, so I understand why - but it feels bad, seeing teams get boring stat changes when it looks like there are so many other levers they just didn’t touch.
Yeah, it really kills the equipment and leaves the Casti and to a lesser extent doggy to do it
Hearthkyn Salvager player here! I played a game last night with the new dataslate rule and I have to say the new buffs are especially good on Gallowdark.
Being able to move up to and alpha objective, securing a room and setting up is an absolute fortress with plasma knives , the Theyn’s weavefield 4+ invuln (which is harder to kill now with that damage negation) and a well placed barrier. The fact that damage can be reduced by 1 helps with survivability massively with the amount of 3/4 weapons in the game
Pairing that with the grenadier’s utility grenade making it harder to approach or reducing the distance of enemy weapons to Red (which was especially useful against the pathfinder with a silent weapon, i forget the name), as well as the dozr positioned just inside the door and the full adoption of all the tokens and shenanigans, Fort Knux was real!
Can’t wait to keep maining these guys, they aren’t suddenly S tier over night, but they are starting to feel like a tough bastards that I wanted them to be!
Oooh sounds amazing! Yeah they're super strong now
@@CanYouRollaCrit For sure, I think mastering getting into the midrange and growing when a grudge is more valuable than a dwarf presents a pretty precarious play style (which can go horribly wrong if you're even slightly too ambitious in moving up the board), but they've always been the team I find most enjoyable to play (that is until I compete my nemesis claw I imagine haha)
Salvagers have had so many extra rules tacked on at this point that gw needs to release their rules in print again. Not always fun starting at old information and having to cross check a pdf
Yeah their rules bloat is kinda crazy now
I mark up my books. It's messy, but better than using two documents!
Just use wahapedia ;)@@jonrollason5709
What’s crazy is they were released WITH the Fellgors: one team was clearly underpowered while the other was wildly overpowered. This to me proves KT has no playtesting at all.
I really hope that the new edition doesn't change too much of the (in my opinion) very good core rules. Maybe a few rule simplifications and clarifications. But I hope it won't be a complete overhaul.
Yeah will likely just be a refinement
The scout buff is wild. Every time GW has done a +1 model buff it’s broken the team and this time they felt that wasn’t enough which is crazy.
Yeah totally wrong buffs for scouts
Gonna field my kinband as space marine scouts now.
Assimilation complete
Yeah, now scout Marines using Knives strong like a Powersword while the Sergeant has to use a rusty chainsword. And the Primaris units are weaker than the new recruits...
Who the hell thinks this Is Logic...
Fearsome deadly Scout knives
In space knives fights you commrades!
I read this dataslate and instantly called Gellarpox the winner. Glad to see I’m not alone.
Also the number of changes some factions are getting is nuts. That said, I’d rather they keep trying to get it right than just leave some teams in the dust.
It's just weird who they choose to leave in the dust tho
Legionary roster update is nice. Although i hope next edition they just scrap rosters altogether. Kill team doesn't need them, assuming they don't make some big changes.
Nah rosters are fine
Rosters are bad because teams either completely ignore them, or are indirectly nerfed because of them. It's either a neutral or negative experience @@CanYouRollaCrit
@MsManuales that's completely incorrect and why I did a video on the subject
Oh which one? I'm interested to hear why. Is it "how to use your roster"?@@CanYouRollaCrit
I really hope the next edition of Killteam doesn’t change much, just cleans up some messily written rules and maybe adds minor changes.
If they try to simplify it like 10th or, god forbid, put it on a damn grid I’m gonna be devastated
Likely just a refinement imo
Be carefull what u wish for, edition 10th is a flaming stack of shit.
@@Klierowski I directly said I didn’t want it to get simplified like 10th?
@@CanYouRollaCrit yeah that’s what I’m hoping. Also hope the bespoke teams get to keep their rules and the new ones keep a similar style so all the teams I made aren’t immediately invalidated
I think the only loss will be compendium teams
Farstalkers are in dire need of changes.
No damage buffs allowed unless scouts 😭
that was honestly so weird not seeing any kroot buffs 😢 but to be honest, i wouldn't know exactly what to do with them if i were in the place of GW
@@neeeeeeeek9 List of sugested changes to fix kroot / farstalkers while keeping some kind of operative skill restrictions.
Essential:
The pistolier can move and shoot twice (not charge)
Dogs back to GA2
Stalker can do the special charge like now in conceal or at maximum range but in engage
Cut-skin can attack two different targets (only if he kills the first one?)
Surely necessary:
Stalker loses the extra die
Cut-skin with damage 3/5
If they continue to struggle:
Buf Prey
Meat at the beginning or end of activation
Warriors with GA1
Triballest 4/5?
Not sure but nice to fix:
Secondary combo, remove it?
Dire Avangers also need far sweeping changes
@@Ralai14 great list of suggestions here! i do agree with pistolier and cut skin buffs, cuz right now they feel like they wanna deal damage but just can't
GA1 on the dogs really helped them imo. sometimes GA2 can be hardto setup and may require you to waste a turn/sacrifice a model if only one dog was properly setup
either way, hoping to get a whole wall of text for kroot in the next balancing 🤞
I run Intercession, Phobos, and Scouts.
Unfortunate to see Intercession didn’t get any fixes. Would have loved to see them improve their tactics, or change them up, or be more flexible in switching between them. I think their loadout and equipment is fine.
Phobos seems fine enough, like more tricksy Intercession.
Scouts going to 10 seems fine to test the waters, but that knife change? That’s broken. Just as a comparison, it hits as hard as a Custodes sentinel blade. Literally ZERO thought went into that. I predict that will be reverted. If I’m playing locals or against buddies, I’m personally not implementing/enforcing that combat blade change.
Every Warhammer shop I go into has plenty of scouts on the shelf....
I'm just saying 😊
Already infiltrating
They're already heavily discounted online here in China too
GW to kroot and kasrkin players; "get gud scrub"
"You've reached your buff quota this edition" 😂😭
Very nice looks like my Inquis agents can take some exaction squad support, also the hipster in me can finally play felgor without feeling like a meta slave.
Also all the players who stuck with scouts deserved those buffs ^^
Ah nice, yeah although they got crazy buffs 😅
where is my Intercession buff? Sad day for normal marines.
Yeah sad Ints didn't get a buff ):
I get that intercession is an intro/middle of the road team, but it could be legitimately competitive when introduced. I too was hoping for a small buff, as they are increasingly getting gatekept by new teams.
Thanks, some interesting changes. I guess Scouts couldn't stay worse than Yaeghir... And still no excuse to use a Corsair Heavy Gunner. Oh well, it can proxy a regular one just because it looks cool then.
Scouts went into overdrive
Alright. That's it. I will EXCLUSIVELY play Kinband until they get buffed!
Brave warrior 🫡
If you have built the rest of the team - how would you equip the 4 warriors? 2 Shotguns 2 Knives? Or 4 Knives? (Only one box)
I'd go 2 shotguns and 2 knives
@@CanYouRollaCrit 🙏
That intro 😂 CYRAC is becoming a twitch streamer with that voice
I've been grippin it
The knives change for the Scouts is silly. It makes no sense from an in-universe perspective. I’m glad I never built my team because I was considering the option of building a second sgt.
Yeah it's very weird
Personally i wanted and hoped for scouts getting an extra op. Jamie is pleased :)
Looks like you got a brucey bonus too 😂
Needed some explosion effects for the intro and outro.
Surprised there was nothing for Kroot or Breachers, but I guess they are out of ideas. Also, RIP Intercession.
What does the legionary rule change? The way I'm reading it, it still seems like you can only pick two marks aside from undivided for the team.
You can pick any mark for the roster, better for tournament play
Great video ^^
Phobos has the same knife... but they forgot how to use it.
With the Eldar they matched the rifles of all their kill teams. Will they do the same?
Thanks! Marines are clearly holding back compared to Scouts haha
Maybe?
You know what I am going to say about the Scouts... WTH? None of the common sense recommendations (like remove LOS from the Sgt's +1 APL & add Cumbersome for the Hvy Weapons Gunners)...
The +1 Warrior operative is just lazy.
And the change to the combat knife is just plain weird.
Well, at keast you have (once again...) proved that you are not a playtester. 😂
#NOTAPLAYTESTER
I, for one, welcome our knife lord scout meta 🥲
good review! still a bit confused about the necron's reanimation though... so they are not getting healing after being reanimated because it now says "instead"?
Yeah, reverted to old wording unfortunately
Nerfing Pathfinders in ITD makes no sense to me. It's true that they are OP in the other modes, and the nerfs there make sense, but why a further ITD nerf, where they pretty much auto lose anyway?
They're better in ITD but it's very weird
I’m not sure what you mean by running all shotguns and knives for the scouts? They don’t have knives as equipment just the extra blade that gives a knife balanced. You still have to decided between the super shotgun and the super knife
Yeah so 5 with shotguns and 5 with knives. Ultimate pincer threat
Hierotek nerf awful. I think the best way is to make it without rolling dice ever (so you gain more control over your reanimations), than its ok that you use reanimation after living metal. And technomancer should be like +2 to reanimation and living metal, instead of +1. So if you pick Chono - you should play more risky, but have nice abilities. And your wounds after reanimation will be like D3+2=3-5, 2 res/round. And if you pick Techno - you become really tanky D3+5=6-8, 3 res/round
It wouldn't be enough to prevent Hierotek aggressively rushing people down tho
@@CanYouRollaCrit maybe, but it looks like if you try to rush with chrono - you will die fast. So your opponent just can play def at first and rush on 2+ round. And if you take Techno - you play constatly aggressive, but almost without your leader.
GW change awful cause its not making other crypteks valuable, dont fix problems of team. Just making the whole team worse and less necron'ish
@@CanYouRollaCrit Also its very strange, cause in article about dataslate they said "slight adjustment" and not a "we saw that this team kill everyone, so we made equal changes to them". Its strange and looks like mistake
Agreed with scouts....
Scout meta is here
Where does it say that Hierotek reanimates now after living metal?
Because they reverted to old wording. Prior wording specially changed reanimation to happen before living metal
Dwarf buffs? Love to see it the dozer is still my favorite model in kill team
For the love of the emperor GW do something with Kroot. I wish they’d get a proper rework like hierotek got back in the day but damn at this point I’ll take basically anything that actually helps them
Yeah love dorf buffs but poor scouts
@@CanYouRollaCrit the scouts are probably the single least interesting team in the game to me. I simply could not be less interested in them good or bad. But I imagine GW has a contractual obligation to keep space marines high tier and since the others have fallen off I guess it’s this teams turn
unusual nerfs for fellgor. not sure why they touched everything else but the problem itself, which is the frenzy ability 😅
Frenzy is fine, apparently
@@CanYouRollaCrit The Reckless Determination nerf is fairly huge, can no longer auto retain two saves if getting shot in cover, makes them much more vulnerable to TP1 shooting.
@BigTexJ I don't know many who played that ploy as usually you're moving into positions where you cannot be shot TP1
@@CanYouRollaCrit Never on ITD, but depending on an open board's layout (*cough* Dallas Open *cough*) you'd need to be in light cover just to try to score.
I think living metal happen before reanimation is reasonable. When i read living metal happen AFTER reanimation i was like "yo what? Did they mistype it? That doesn't make sense to me"
Nah it's back to happening after reanimation now sadly
@@CanYouRollaCrit wait wait wait wait, wording problems here
Living metal > reanimation right?
Not reanimation > living metal since that means Hierotek got healed TWICE
@hoshi314 the order is now resolve living metal first for operatives in the killzone. Next you then roll for reanimation and roll for the operatives' wounds for d3+2 each
@@CanYouRollaCrit How do you know they revert back to the old wording? If they changed it to where Living Metal happens before Reanimation then it would be written that way in this updated balance sheet. It doesn't specifically say its reverting back to the old wording? Is that confirmed somewhere or are you just assuming?
Ha - laughed out loud at the intro. Super helpful as always
I'm always with the times while informative dudeeee 😎
Just wait till he learns that every other forward deploy in the game also works 3 different ways ;)
They don't?
@@CanYouRollaCrit
Balance Dataslate, first page, Hazardous Areas, second bullet point.
Core Rules Errata document, second page, Close Quarters, first entry.
I think Hierotek just changed from D3+3 to D3+2. They didn´t include the wording for timing in the Dataslate, so it should still be "In the Ready Operatives step of each Turning Point, before resolving the Living Metal ability, roll one D6 for each of your Reanimation tokens. On a roll of 1, leave that Reanimation token in the killzone. On a 2+, operatives are successfully reanimated:"
No, the original change clarified it happening after Living metal, as that is removed, Reanimation now happens after Living Metal healing again
@@CanYouRollaCrit Uff, that´s harsh. Pretty punishing nerf.
YO YO YO YO, great as always!
YOYOYO THANKS FOR WATCHING DUDEEE
Gangsta opening
Representing the London massive!
That Hierotek Circle nurf is WAY too much. Going down to +2 instead of +3 was okay, but if its true and living metal does not happen after reanimation anymore, that is just dumb.
I think they could have found a middle ground but the change stops Crons rushing forwards
I take the devs intended to make this change in a thematic way. Like, the opponente smashes a Necron and that android starts to re-assemble itself from pieces. It is logical that the Necron does not come back fully operational, but Injured instead. However, many buffs/nerfs to other teams have been done compleately in a stupid way
I have a question for Hierotek and this is probably because I have poor reading comprehension 🥲 but where is it written than reanimation happens after living metal?
Original wording from the book they came in
@@CanYouRollaCrit Oh! Thank you very much 🙇