I have a turbo hayabusa. The issues that I have had were self inflicted. I have 14000 miles total on the bike and it’s been turbo’d for 8000. When the turbo kicks in and you hear it spoil and feel the power come in it feels insane! It is the most fun on two wheels imo!
I have a buddy with a turbo ZX10 built motor and trans air shifted it’s a street/strip build but more strip then any thing but sees a ton of street miles. I’ve personally seen it make over 460whp on the dyno but I’ve only rode it on what he calls the street tune and still makes 350+hp and it’s the scariest thing with less than 4 wheels I’ve ever drove even at 100+mph on the highway it will do rolling burnouts as long or how dumb you are sometimes it will feel like it’s gonna wheelie and then blow the tire and spin or feel like it’s gonna spin and wheelie it’s a wild bike you couldn’t pay me to take it to the track put it on the the 2 step and make a pass it scares me and I’m hard to scare he doesn’t run it on a slick the class’s he runs you have to run a DOT tire he runs a Shinko or something like that They don’t say drag radial on them but that’s basically what they are he’s been 4.90’s with no bars and a dot tire In the 1/8 it’s got more in he’s made some changes over the winter it’s got some stupid expensive carbon fiber wheels and bearings and a new intercooler and cold side! We will see soon
@@TachySteve parents didnt approve of me and a racing buddy{dirtbikes under honda} doing a day trip to la and back from sacramento on turbo busas. in hs. never looked down passed 220. both were friends drag bikes. around 4 hour ride no traffic at 150+ the whole way. we were god damn idiots
The Honda was very clever & basically showed off their technical prowess at the time, but the Kawasaki was definitely the best of the bunch. But, like 6 cylinders, it was an evolutionary cul de sac for production motorcycles. The Kawasaki H2, being supercharged has re-opened the interest in forced induction.
Super chargers have a more subtle boost spread over the entire power band the turbo has a window it operates in. Too much compression is bad it will kill the engine faster.
@@AKlover centrifugal superchargers raise boost in a linear way compared to rpm but the subtly of the boost curve is dependent on the gear ratio that's running it. Turbo and exhaust technology has come a long way since the bikes of the 80's and with a proper sized turbo a lot of modern bikes could definitely stay within boost throughout most of the usable powerband easily. A simple way to keep a turbo's boost more linear would be different driving modes working together with an electronic wastegate to allow different desired boost levels. As for the longevity of engines under high compression, you gotta pay to play if you want to go fast.
talking about the CBX vs the Z1300 is not the same as forced induction. Had you mentioned the Seca 650 TURBO I would have had at least an oz of respect for ya, but, you talking about oranges when apples are being sold bruh. Wake the Fu*k Up. I do have a ZX11 I installed a turbo on with a 4 lb boost gate limit which is more than enough cause the bike is stoopid fast to begin with. With the turbo and re-jetting I can outrun the H2 Easily, not the H2R with the supercharger on it, but all other super bikes that try and out run me find out just how lame their STOCK bikes really are. Love nothing more than to leave a Ducati, Aprilia, H2 or any other liter bike in my dust. Then they pull up cause the turbo is hidden from view and ask what I did to it. I tell them I used a power commander and increased jet sizes. Then one of em said I coulda swore i heard a turbo kick in. I then told the truth and they all wanted me to boost their bikes. I wished em all the best of luck, but NO was my answer. It takes considerable skill and testing to get it all dialed in just right, and when you hit that sweet spot, well the bike speaks for itself.
It was about a decade before the CX ever found a turbo, here in Southern California you could buy and have the factory install in American turbo pack turbo charger. And some like the KZ1R TC, could be ordered right from the factory. Too bad none of the turbo bikes you can get from the factory, never had an intercooler. The whole reason the supercharged H2 isn't intercool, less plumbing but more importantly it flows so much air it doesn't need one. I had high hopes for the variable vein systems found in a few turbos. Showed a lot of promise, just not the right guys working on the problem. Ooops, never mind, wrote that before I saw the video
Some missing context in this video is why the Japanese started putting turbos on their motorcycles in the first place. At the time Reagan put a huge tariff on larger displacement motorcycles to protect Harley Davidson's sales who were in a very desperate financial situation at the time. The Japanese went to turbos to gt higher horsepower machines on the market with lower displacement engines and dodge the tariffs. Except for the Z1RTC, that's just Kawasaki being insane awesome.
LMAO, so much for Reagan's and US right's "free market". As soon as the free market worked against US companies, such as when more fuel efficient Japanese and European cars became hot hits, they all doubled down.
I just heard about this the other day. Apparently, at some point, Honda put a car motor in the motorcycle, and then they had to change the engine size because of Harley Davidson being afraid of being outsold. So his bike has the smaller displacement 4 cylinder engine because of that.
I can't speak for the other turbobikes but my 85 Kawasaki 750 turbo is a real pleasure to ride. Yes, when it spools up you better have a trajectory planned out. They should never have stopped building them. Crazy fun.
I drove a 750 Turbo for over 100k miles between 1986 and 1993. Such a great bike, but when the turbo kicked in, you'd better be holding on tightly and leaning forward. I'm 6'5" and 210 lbs., and there were a couple of times I got scared, barely able to hold on.
I've ridden motorcycles for years, only recently thought about turbos. From watching this video, if there's so much problem with delivery timing, has anybody ever thought to just have a wastegate that's open all the time and let the turbos spool up how they do.. and then like formula 1 when you're ready for the power you press a button which closes the wastegate delivering the boost exactly when you're ready for it and when you let off the button with your thumb, wastegate goes back to its naturally full open position and dump the boost. Basically boost on demand, not whenever you hit a certain RPM Not sure if this would be effective, but I know they're making superchargers with bypass when you're going 55 on the highway. And it takes like less than one horsepower to turn the unit when you're just blowing off So it seems like you could have a turbo on a bike and just ride the bike as normal and then have 10 psi when you hit a button
@@Bozemanjustin The wastegate is accuated by pressure by a hose. What you say may be possible, especially with modern turbos. As for my 85 Kawi, I would not change anything. You already have a throttle to command the turbo, and the learning curve isn't too steep if you understand how a turbo works. The 84 85 Kawi has a built in second map in the ecu that allows for overboost to keep the turbo spooled up for less lag. It is controlled by fueling only. The timing isn't even variable by boost pressure, only fueling. Putting the ecu in "race mode" allows for fuel pressure changes and makes the thing a real hoot to ride. The throttle is all you need. It is like riding an early 80s 2 stroke motocross bike except much heavier with about 4 times the HP. Mine is currently tuned to about 140 HP and I have no plans for more. That much boost at once is a fantastic sensation that I plan to enjoy until I can no longer ride. Point and shoot. Great fun! Wastegate not actuated lets the turbo make over 35psi for short time, can only maintain about 26psi. They have a low compression ratio (8.5:1) for such conditions. On a dyno the "power banana" gets huge with high boost and low compression ratios.
@@paulrogers6037 kinda Famous, Infamous for trying to Throw Rider off the back, when turbo Engaged. Couriered on a nearly new Kawa. 750 turbo, '84, got chance to Thrash it Daily, Countless times, Lovely.
@@scottlochans4180 I was a courier on mine, too! It was a leftover 1985 and bought it brand new in 1986. $3699! I was looking at the Yamaha Fazer 700, but decided on the turbo. Everyone told me it was a mistake. Nope - just a wonderful, perfect bike. Never needed anything except regular maintenance. And yes, it could easily throw you off when the turbo engaged. Scared the @#% out of me a couple of times.
Wrong. It's widely accepted that a naturally aspirated motorcycle of equal power (larger displacement) will always outperform the turbocharged motorcycle
@@VisioRacer They don't exist purely because there is no need for them to exist. A 1000cc engine provides all the power 99.9% of people ever need in a cheaper less complicated package. But as a proof of concept, it would now be easily possible to create a turbo bike that was so smooth in power delivery, you wouldn't even know it was turbo'd.
@@VisioRacer umm... Kawasaki Ninja H2 is turbocharged production model, available in US and EU since 2015. And it's regarded as fast and agile sportbike.
I had a 750 turbo in the early 90s, it was the best vehicle i have ever experienced. It had a straight through pipe, and it could power wheelie with a pillion at about 80mph and used to power slide exiting roundabouts... And i blew off 2 Gpz1100s on the drag strip... And lost a police BMW bike on twisty roads once. Good times.
Kinda Famous, Infamous for trying to Throw Riders OFF the back, ?, Hang On, for life, when Turbo Engaged. Couriered on a nearly new Kawa.750 GPZ turbo, '84 Thrashed it Daily, Countless times, Lovely bike. Enjoyed my nearly new Kawa. GT750 shaft drive, more all round, than the turbo, GT would sit at a Planted 140 mph. ALL DAY LONG, got the £50 Fine, 3 Months ban, that proves it. March '85 Glasgow to Leeds, Booting it down to England, near Carlisle, Petrol station?, Police come flying in, ' You're Under Arrest ?, We've been chasing you, for 30 miles, God knows what I was doing ?, Dumfries Sheriff Court, Guesstimated 138 mph. ?, Good guess. Match '19, no bike Kawasaki, for 27 years, got a 05 very very healthy Bandit 650 inj., 20, 21 months of Blessed Bandit Time Times, got a PhD Masters Degree in Bandit Torque Enjoyment only, nothing technical, at least 58, 59 times more biking joy, than the turbo. I'm now a HOPEFULLY only, semi retired Crazy Mad Banditateer, FEKKIN Banditless Banditaholic, ruined for any other bike, and I ain't even lying.Yours truly Scott Loch. Na, Professor Bandit B.T.E. Torque Enjoyment only, out.
I've lost track of how many Motorcycles I've owned. My GPZ750 Turbo was to most fun of any of them. Turbo lag was almost no existent, you could actually get full boost at a stoplight in neutral.
One place where it could be interesting would be on a big tourer like a goldwing. Those bikes are already big, complex and expensive. Plus, they would benefit from the torque increase from a turbo, and from the eventual engine downsizing.
There was a guy in Canada several years ago who built a turbo kit for a GL1800, guess it made enough power to annihilate any sportbike in a roll-on up to about 140 mph. No room on that bike to turbo it effectively though.
The point of a turbo on a road bike is to make up for lack of displacement. Those big tour bikes have tons of torgue and displacement. Most are over 1800 cc. They have monster engines in them and the power comes on smoothly and is very linear. A turbo may only upset that kind of bike. I can see why that may seem exciting. I'm afraid that it would make the bike almost unmanageable. When the turbo kicks in on a small displacement bike, it's easy to handle. A turbo on a large displacement bike would be like have a jet pack under you. The front end would begin to float and off the road you would go. I don't know if you remember a bike Honda made. The V65 Honda Magna. A V4 cylinder 1100 cc cruiser. The front end was racked out and the seat sat low and back behind this massive engine. No turbo, just natural aspiration. The most common accident with that bike was due to the excessive acceleration and torque. As the bike accelerated, the front end began to slowly rise. Eventually taking the rider somewhere they didn't intend to go.
I had a 92 Suzuki 1100r with turbo and Intercooler back in the days. It had carburetors so it was a little bit wild. Got 345 horsepower on the backwheel. Best and funniest bike I ever owned 🤣
Ruins Motorcycles? Please. Everyone that's ridden one of my turbo bikes hops off with a stupid grin on their face, saying "I want one!". You can tell by the criticisms in the comments that the critics have never ridden a turbocharged motorcycle.
Please, watch the video carefully. I try my best to say why it is not a good idea and where a turbo bike excels. I have ridden fast bikes, not turbos, but above 1000cc and I am more than happy with my 790. I am a corner guy, not much of a straight roads fan. Anyway, objective statements were mentioned in the video.
Yamaha filed a few patents a couple of years ago, which have similarities to a turbocharged MT-07 and MT-09. I really hope turbocharging will make it one more time before electric bikes will be the only option. Great video showing the history of this topic.
@@axelotl86 yup, I really don't need a shaking or noisy engine to have fun I just want turns lol. The only thing I'd be missing is the technical part of blipping down while breaking, staying in the right rpm range etc. Having to play with the clutch at low speeds is also fun in a way, because it's so satisfying for me in a sense, but a well made gas response wouldn't bother me at low speeds on an electric motorcycle.
@@janjakus3596 ......purely an entitlement narrative on what constitute a biker or motorists in general. I don't see who writes such rule books...maybe the obsolete bunch unwilling to the complexity of changing world dynamics.
Instead of adding turbo, loads of pipes, intercooler, boost controller and other supporting mods, just add 200-400cc to the NA engine. Turboes begin to make sense above 1200cc. I love my 2.0 turbo car, but it looses breath up top and it needs ½ second to react from 0- full throttle (the opposite of what you want on a bike). A 10 year newer turbo would change things, but twin scroll, ball bearing, billet wheel and all that would just increase complexity and cost even more.
Uhhm yeah you can turbo any cc. Your 1200cc comment is rather brainless. You do realise that all the new small cars have 800cc to 1000cc with 3 cilinder motors and turbo charged.... Facepalm
Well the XN had a frame in stiffness comparable to the Katana or even possibly better , hence the superior handling , the drawback was the Nicco Bakker patented rear suspension "Full Floater" which Suzuki had made FAR to progressive , even with a spring from a BIC pen or similar it was stupidly progressive , but one could ride around that once having learned the quirks....just by installing a bleed valve on the boost line to the ECU and a progressive fuel pressure regulator one easily got it up to 130 hp... mine is today 200 hp.with further tweeks....
I would think cruiser bikes could really benefit from having a small turbo setup like VW 1.8T, low end effortless torque. For street bikes the linear rotrex style superchargers are the way to go!
This "bypass" system has existed on cars for decades now too. Some people use this to run something called "boost by gear" where the car makes less boost, and thus less power in lower gears. There's also boost by speed, which is self explanatory.
As a 750turbo owner i can tell from experience these bikes are real fun. Not the easiest to drive, when u get that turbo kicking in man you better hold tight , but when You get the feel for them its hard to drive any other bike ever
@@WildWildWeasel yes, that is a centrifical supercharger, this comment talks about a positive displacement supercharger, wich is a very different design
They were expensive ,heavy (and therefore ill handling) bikes that made no more power than NA models of a similar weight and larger displacement. Newer mid range bikes NA were making more power within 10 years. Americans liked them because they never had the sense to put bends in their roads
@sourand jaded We used to have a lot in NZ,but now, where ever they cross a major road ,the minor road is misaligned (no X intersection) and has stop signs, so locals can't just blast through the intersection (It's always the locals) Now they have to find uncontrolled rail crossings to get themselves killed on.
The H2 is supercharged not turbo charged. Turbos make more power but the power curve is not linear Super chargers have a linear power curve just like naturally aspirated vehicles but are limited by the engine rpm itself. Turbos are just dangerous on motorcycles because if you get that power boost while in a corner you may lose traction.
completely wrong. it is and was an amazing idea but they didnt do a pre break in before new owners got them. new owners went around like a bat outta hll and blw ngins within the first few weeks. kawi removed all warranty on anything but suspension and wiring. this gave them a bad rep and after that the only turbo bikes were insane small company hyperbikes. the turbo kawi was a joy to ride. tame if you kept it a gear high. insanity a gear low. perfect for track and daily. even my hyped up buell 1200 was a bit much for the street and it was miles behind the cbr1000
I put 97,000 KM's on my '82 CX500Turbo, and between it and my '81 Yamaha RD350LC, they were the best, most fun bikes I've ever owned. No one who didn't own both of these at the same time and put many, many miles on them 24/7/365, will ever believe me when I say the CXTurbo was like a giant, soft and comfy version of the RD. Their powerbands were virtually identical, lol. It's a real laugh to listen to people who have never ridden, let alone owned a Turbo bike, to say a single damned bad thing about them.
The Katana was a different beast to the CX 500 turbo though. The Katana turbo came on power like an on off switch catching a few riders out mid corner.
Electric traction motors develop peak torque at zero rpm. It's easy to find small 30 HP electric motors with much more torque than even super sports make.
@@toddnickb A slippery clutch kan deliver the same torque at every rpm thats lower than max torque rpm. It's more the waste of energy in the form of heat that burns the clutch. There enough torque for a bike when you can make a wheelie, so no need to go electric.
History : TURBOs came first on diesel because of exhaust temperature. (950°C in Diesel) Because of material limitations the first Petrol car turbo engines (1150°C) where forced to run very rich at high rpm to cool the turbo, and even like that, where not very reliable if you pushed them a lot. The first lean mixture petrol turbo where tiny due to manufacturing limitations of new materials. (32 35mm). Japanese manufacturers started to use them at this moment because turbo started to become reliable at this moment.
I drove a GPZ 750Turbo which belonged to a friend of mine. I was 20 years old in 91 and thought I am Freddy Spencer or Wayne Rainy. My friend said, if the boost gauge is in the middle it is enaugh. I drove on the nearly empty Autobahn45 and spanned the rope. I thought I was flying. The powerdelivery was verry impressive after a few km I decided to go back on the twisty roads we have here in Hessen. I read signs of towns I never heard of before. I had to admit, that I was driven much more km than I thought. On the country roads it took me all my skills to tame that beast but I made it home without scratches. A few years later Kawa came out with the 16V RAM Air 750 GPZ and a better handling. But that Turbo expirience I made sticks still in my mind.
I really enjoyed my Yamaha XJ turbo ad actually club raced one year against open class bikes. It was a lot of fun and I was never last. I also enjoyed it as a sport tourer. Probably one of the funest bikes that I have owned.
I had purchased a new '82 in '84 and had the Yamaha power up kit (simply tube from wastegate to airbox) that brought boost up to 15lb (if I remember right). Once boosting, just as quick as my buddy's GS1100. Absolute blast. I had made a straight pipe for the turbo & sounded cool as hell. Damn I miss that bike. Perfect sport tourer for here in MI.
So here's my opinion. Turbochargers do not ruin motorcycles, they ruined the motorcycles that were too rudimentary to handle them as well as too unsophisticated. Nowadays, there is all kinds of electrical controls for fast bikes, and it would be very easy to tame the power curve of a turbo by gradually opening the wastegate as the boost increases so that you have a flat curve. You could also have a boost control based off wheelie control as well as lean angle. Very simple, factory turbo bikes were ahead of their time
Your correct, with the modern advances in turbocharging and fuel injection, electronics and so forth. You can pretty much create any power curve you want, low end torque to screaming HP up on top. Even a little of both, it just in the tuning, air flow, fuel delivery, exhaust rate and some mechanical modifications, cam angle/ timing, head porting,etc. VGT's alone with the tuning can almost deliver a linear power through the rpm range. Similar (but not the same)to a supercharger but with out the parasitic load. Basically want it really comes down too is, how much do you want to spend?
@@michaelmurphy6869 it's not even to the point of how much do you want to spend. The changes to 1000cc bikes to make them race bikes for MotoAmerice as well as World Superbike include changing the ECU I believe. And then at that point slapping a turbo somewhere and a boost controller is not much more cost. The cost of the Garrett Club series turbos are pretty low for the gains you could have. And the bikes are built with the best of the best stuff from top to bottom for the 2 race series that I mentioned so money is not an issue
We had that turbo bike here in Brazil and not a lot of people knew how to deal with the turbo spooling up mid RPM, it used to kill it's drivers, reason why it got the nickname of Black Widow.
I had a 1977 Kawasaki Z 1000 A2. I am crying while seeing this... Mine was a i4 with 4 carbs. It was horror so sync them perfectly. BUT if you have done your Job right, this bike was a dream to drive. Comfortable, powerful, easy to repair and modify. I had gas powered shocks and fork. Sporty tyres with good grip. It was my dreambike and last year i had to sell it. The fuel here in germany become so bad, it destroyed all sealings on the tank, fuellines, carbs... When i have fixed all leaks, i had 4 weeks and then do it all again. As i said, sync 4 carbs is horror. I ended in spending more time in fixing than driving.
Was it the ethanol in the fuel that was causing all the damage? If so, that can be removed pretty easily. Just add water and let it settle into separate layers. You end up with less fuel, but at least it's real gasoline.
@@ahobimo732 I owned the bike since mid 90s. Back then i NEVER had problems. Yes i had to clean the carbs once a year, but that was all. I tried the ethanol reducing in 2020 and 2021. In this small scale it was not really a problem. But the reduced fuel had other problems. It has lower octane rates. Instead of 98 octane, it got arround 90. I had to use the choke even in summer when starting. The whole garage smelled like bad fuel and i got this "dirty water" i don't know where to dispose. Tip it in a drain at the road could cause problems. I guess the police would call this environmental pollution and give me penalty. So thanks for the hint. I have done all i could to keep it. The only solution would be to convert from carbs to fuel injection. A later model had a fuel injection, but my local bike shop said, i had to change so much, that i should buy the later model. Its much easier. Now the prices for fuel go up. Here in germany we pay arround 2 € per litre. That is more than 7,5 € per gallon. Or $ 7.9 per gallon.
@@TobiasRieperGER Yeah...I never thought about the octane problem. It makes sense though. I live in eastern Canada where there is FAR less government regulation, so disposing of the water wouldn't be a problem here, but I can see how it would be different for you. Honestly, I don't know if I could handle living in Germany. I have so many freedoms that I take for granted here. But on the other hand, I'm practically living in the middle of the woods, so... 🤷🏼♂️ Fuel had gotten a lot more expensive here in Canada recently as well. It's about $2.25/litre here right now. It'll probably hit $3.00 before the year ends. The transition to electric is being pushed pretty hard. Even though the technology isn't really ready yet (imo). It might work for urban environments, where people only have small distances to travel, but for rural areas, I don't think it's really feasible yet. So us "country folk" are getting kinda screwed.
I think the reasons you express here are wrong. I am a fan of old bikes, mainly late 70 to late 80. The problem at the time was to get more power you need bigger engine. 1000cc engines were seriously heavy. The 6 cylinders approach were successful in power but the engine and frame combination made the bikes impossible to control on the bends, when leaning you will feel a the engine like a passenger that is not holding into nothing. Really scary as it reacts unpredictable. Because aspirated engines did not work, they tried turbos, adding just 5 to 10kg (in theory) to a 600 or 700 bike to reach the power of a 1000. The bad thing that happen you have explained well. Turbo lag, complexity, etc. However with the turbo all the manufacturers gain experience in fueling, cooling, handling and manufacturing. In 85 they knew the solution, the technology was developed. Liquid cooling, fuel injection, better and different frame dressings. The turbo era open the technology for today's motorbikes where turbo were not needed as the path would take the engines further to a power never seen before. (1000cc 200HP), but we are reaching the end of this technology. The H2 is a statement that says that turbo may come back. Maybe the new super tourer bikes world be a 700 or 1000 with a low compression two stage turbo like in many cars today. And today installing a turbo doesn't require much added weight. The new generation of bikes could offer 150HP on a 600cc bike capable of cruising at insane speeds with a torque of a 1500cc bike. Transporting two better than a gold wing.
Turbo lag is no longer an issue. In the early day they were using too big Turbos so the lag was very noticeable. But now they have figured it out and use smaller turbos or sometime Compound Turbos in cars.
@@VisioRacer Yes, but even those are too big. Look at the turbo on the Passat TDI engine and that is for a two liter engine. For a one liter engine you need half the size of that. The Passat has no Turbo lag.
A twin scroll turbo, with diverter to get it to spool faster, and if variable geometry could be fitted, making it make power, without lag, and a boost tank to keep boost after shifting, I could also imaging a u engine, with counter rotating cranks, with 2cylinders each , with 75mm bore , 40mm stroke . 3v per cylinder, or a 2cyl
Having, in my salad days, driven a KZ900 turbo vs a Suzuki 1100, I can definitely say that the turbo bike simply wasn't much fun. It was fast, sure, but it was not quick. The Suzuki on the other hand was like astoundingly quick. It actually reminded me of a 2 stroke the way it pulled through the gears, lifting and carrying the front wheel in a third gear roll on out of a sweeper.
Back n the 80 my mate stuck a turbocharger he got off a ford cortina onto Suzuki Katana a 900cc one. Think of the loudest bike you ever heard. Now double it lol. He ended up becoming a successful engineer. He did the bike while we were still at school.
I absolutely LOVED my CX500 Turbo. I commuted on it, and fell in love with the bike. The turbo didn't really spool up if you were just grannying around, and that was great. All you needed to do for a good boost is downshift. ;)
@@Billswiftgti ....the Japanese seem to be the ones that display creativity on two wheeled machines, both real as well as fiction...like Akira or Final Fantasy.
1:30 For the record - the first ever pruduction car to have a turbo charged engine was the fabulous BMW 2002tii back in 1973 and it was a blast. For competition applications they upgraded them up to 500-600 hp (weighting about 900kg!) which was something hard to imagine at that time for 2litre engines. Unfortunately BMW turned their backs on turbo charging technology for gasoline engines for decades and permitted brands like AUDI, Volvo, Saab, Porsche and most Japanese manufacturers like Mitsubishi, Subaru, Toyota to build real iconic cars, while BMW followed their quest for NA perfection.
I owned a CX-500 Turbo in the 80's, and LOVED IT. Great all rounder cycle single or two-up, rain or shine, and perfect high speed tourer. I NEVER experienced a 2 second turbo lag... ever.
Yea I had one,my friend had one,the only problem was turbo seals and they start smoking,my friend would win racing RDs in the quarter mile and it was funny to hear all that furry from a two stroke and the turbo put put put down the 1/4mile way ahead of the rd
Turbo charging a 50cc GY6 based scooter was a hoot and a half though. Mostly because a moped like that is ridden at wide open throttle anyway, so it's never going to be off boost. Swap out some rollers, change the clutch pack, fiddle around with the final drive ratio, shim the bottom of the cylinder and slap on a turbo. It's the one big loophole in the legal technical requirements on moped here. You can't increase displacement over 50cc and you can't increase top speed over 55kph. But there is nothing on the books that says you can't strangle 7kW from a 50cc moped and launch like a rocket at the lights.
I love the '83 CX650TD I bought in 1998. I still have it and it still tries to pull my arms off. When I was looking for a new car in 2010, I bought a Honda Fit over its competition because I wanted a car built by the company that had the audacity to build that exotic, reliable bike. 12 Year and 180,000 trouble-free miles later, that car is 100% reliable. Honda lost gobs of money developing their turbo but the patents and technology transferred to their autos and gave them a huge edge over the American cars of the malaise era.
Honda has an excellent grasp of airflow....I'm thinking of that rc166 that revved to like 20-22k back in the 60s. All I've seen are videos ,and the comments are funny because every other one is : 2 stroke? 🤣 Nah, just good old revs.
Back in 1982 owned a Honda CBX, inline 6 / 24 valve, 6 carb. sport touring. Installed a turbo kit by American Turbo Pak (aka: Mr. Turbo). Hadn't bothered to swap pistons to a lower comp. ratio but kept a conservative boost. Single carb. Stock was rated at 100hp. After the turbo, lost much of the bottom end torque but on the boost was far more entertaining. Did some cannonballing around the states. Triple digits at length would require refuel every 100 miles, yet was more fuel efficient than stock. No comparison and dogs to today's technology, but back then it was cool and everything from lawn chairs to my 82 ur-quattro coupe was turbo.
The best bike I have ever owned was the Honda CX500T Turbo. That bike was a great highway bike and it also handled well in the corners. A little top heavy with the five gallon fuel tank, but hat weight balanced the bike out nicely for long rides. Turbo lag was an issue if you were only interested in 0 to 60. Once the bike reached 2500 rpm and began to breath. It was a rocket ship. I rarely passed cars one at a time. I passed them in gobs. This bike went from sixty to ninety in a few seconds. It was like being on a catapult. The acceleration was addictive. A friend and owner of the local Honda bike dealership had a CBX. He would have to drop two gears just to keep me in sight. He would catch me eventually. By then we would have run out of road. We were riding back from the MX Nationals that were held in Milville MN. I had my future wife on the back of the bike. A few of the guys were on Gold Wings. One on a 750 Interceptor and one was on a Yamaha 650. He had an older speedometer that went over 130 mph. Mine was the new mandated speedometer that only went up to 85 mph. He said I left him when he was doing 122 and we were two up. That bike was a blast and I wish I had never sold that bike. I later had a CBR1000. It was a nice bike but it did not accelerate like that CX500T.
A riding buddy of mine got a hold of a Bennile 6 around 11,00 cc,s with turbo single carb and water injection, the oil drain line for the turbo dumped oil into the sump thru the oil feed hole (dipstick), nobody ever checked the oil level, the engine seized and one valve some how went thru the turbo and destroyed all six pistons and the head was pure junk
I own a gpz750a1 that i built a turbo setup for and spent time on a factory 750 turbo. Kawaski never called it a gpz750 turbo. Just the 750 turbo. And the chassis was essentially the same bit was braced differently. Mainly because of the turbo position. I did hear the tubing was thicker but no way to confirm that. The structure of the engine was the same but kaw used a sub oil pan and second pump for the turbo drain setup to prevent oiling issues. The 750turbo could have done more but there were issues because the gpz11 at the time made 120hp just like the 750. My 750a1 made 80hp. I think they stopped the factory power there but the bikes has a "race mode" you could unlock with some wiring that made the bikes faster. 750 turbo was very ridable but even my non turbo bike could break the tire loose on lean. My bike now runs gsxr suspension with proper brakes and tires and it made a huge difference. I think the reason these went away was due to the gpz900 and the development of the liquid cooled 4cyl gpz and eventually zx line.
We had a blast on our 85 gpz 750 turbo, my wife would watch the boost gauge over my shoulder she knew when to hang on! I have a yamaha 650 xj turbo thar I restored. I added a boost controler, shimmed the pop off valve, HD clutch springs and a boost gauge. It's fun but no Kawi.
Someone needs to pull a Insight (gen 1) and make the starter part of the the drivetrain, it can add 'boost' when the turbo is lagging and when the turbo kicks in on a litre bike... goodbye. Little heavier but not too much.
Ive had my cx500 turbo since new...Back in the day I cut the heads .050 which gave it about 8 to 1 compression and close to 95hp. Its been a joy to drive for 40 years. Still is like new and is very comfortable...At 65 I don't need another bike..The cx was my 15th bike in 1982. Now I have 2 modified electric sur ron bikes. I go trail riding every day and just plug it in. Can't have more fun...Great video.
Respect, after all these years the CX500 Turbo is still one of the most beautiful motorcycles ever designed. ps. and I,m an Italian motorcycle enthousiast ,)
@@marinjeam It's no wonder you love the styling. Honda had Italian stylist, Giovanni Michelotti, a prolific & influential designer create the innovative and curvaceous fairing and body work.
Hi Found this video a few moments ago. I have a GPz750Turbo from 1985. Bought it second Hand with some issues. My first idea was to provide some stability to the engine. When driving , i found out that after only one trip of about 250 Km's the fresh Engine-oil was done. I put a much bigger Oilcooler on ( which looks disgusting ) and built an Oil-temperature-gauge. Still the temparature of the oil showed 160° C some time, which indicated an oil-change the very next time too. Additionally did i lose/burn a lot of engine-oil. Then i had an accident at quite low speed (~ 50Km/h ) were i broke my back twice. Since then , this beauty is waiting for repair, but my life became turbulent and ugly then. I think, the engine has some design-flaws. The most important is that oil is vaporising when it becomes to hot and sucked into the intake. Therefore i would adopt the windbox with a oil-collector to let the oil off when home. Second, the thing that helped the engine to survive most was the addition of Ceramic-protection to the engine-oil. I would not drive this type of engine without it. Finally : Man , i miss the moments when the Turbo pulled me up mountainroads as if it were flat. Modern bikes have much less weight. But the high weight of about 260Kg's makes this bike unique imho.
I own a turbocharged Honda CBX, excellent platform for forced induction. It has been turbocharged since 1993 with an ATP turbo kit and has a bunch of miles on the chassis, and around 50K on the current engine configuration. I estimate around 170 HP @ the crank @ 9 psi boost, and it is capable of a high 9 second to a 10 flat 1/4 mile ET. If a turbo bike is not tuned properly, it will vomit parts all over the place. Mine has a total of 10 degrees advance and runs @ 32 deg. total advance all in by 3 grand, and mixture is the proper amount of fuel for a suck-through setup. Only disadvantage is the fact that it has a 20 mpg appetite for high octane fuel, and is air-cooled requiring a small radiator-sized oil cooler, but is otherwise reliable as stock. My bike isn't ruined.......it works just fine and will still put the fear of God into you when in boost. Not too shab for a 43 year old motorcycle(bought it new from Honda). Chickenshit insurance companies tubed the factory turbocharged motorcycles in the end. Insurance companies are run by whores and greedy slobs.
Something to think about. My 1954 Ford Meteor got 32 miles per imperial gallon, which is about a quart more than a US gallon. In June of 1958 a barn door of a car, a Rambler got 35.37 mpg per US gallon on a cross-country challenge, from Florida to California. Fuel mileage has only gotten worse since then. Don't believe me, then you check it out. It'll make you want to puke, to see what kind of corruption the gas companies have been doing to the carmakers.
yep, it's the weight component... in a 1400+kg car an extra 20kg of turbo equip is a good trade of for the power added... adding 20kg to a 170+kg bike not so advantageous.... turbo bikes are great, owned one, but n/a bikes have advanced so far that turbo's aren't required.
The 80s were a golden age for motorcycles. Some concepts did well, some did not, but there was always the push to make the bikes do better and better, at a pace that has seemed to slow after those times. All in all, it was a great time to be a motorcycle enthusiast!
Kawasaki is great. They built the Aircraft Carrier Kaga, one of the largest, and most capable Aircraft Carriers of WWII....except they built her in 1920. they built the Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien, which was one of the best Army Fighters of Japan in WWII. (Altough it used a Mercedes engine) They kept they heritage, and they are building great motorcycles. Altough I'm not into Motorcycles, I like Kawasaki's bikes a lot.
What killed the 80's turbo bikes was the cost vs. performance. Boosting a small cc engine to produce LESS peak power than their top superbikes, then charging MORE was suicide. Who'd want an XN85 when a GS1100E was cheaper, and 25+hp more? There wasn't even a real weight advantage... just added complexity.
If only I knew then what I know now, out of all the bikes that I had the one I miss the most is the LTD turbo built by an American turbo pack engineer. This was an 8-second streetbike when ridden by PeeWee Gleason the best I could get was 9.10 that thing love to chase down anything out there and just whip it like a rabid dog. I still believe life begins at 200 mph that is
I remember peewee Gleason! I Been building and dragracing Suzukis and kawasakis for 30 years. These “kids” that make videos based on internet research weren’t alive when the Japanese turbo bikes were out. Probably haven’t ridden one even. So we who have know the truth. I’ve owned a kz turbo but it was terry kizers mr turbo not the ATP kit. I have ridden the z1rtc Molly graphics edition like the black 1 he showed in the video and they were fun too. Only point I will agree with is the turbo bike is really only for those of us with an addiction to straight line acceleration drag race stuff. Even though turbos are fun, I actually prefer naturally asp with nitrous as I’ve learned how to modify these big bore Suzukis from the gs1000 to the gs1100-1150, to the oil cooled gsxr 1100 to the busa and with big block/bores, stroker cranks, massive cylinder head modifications and proper camshafts it’s easy to make 230-250 hp at the tire on the engine and they can still take a 150 hp shot of dope on top with the proper tuning (lots of fuel ie big pump and injector, pull back some timing ). WIth the availability of “relatively” cheap standalone aftermarket ecus we have now, the tuning is practically unlimited and it can control everything that we formerly needed to buy three different “black boxes” to get around the factory ecu. We even taken Banner laser distance sensors that we basically used to control industrial assembly lines and other industrial automation, build a bracket to mount it on your fork legs pointing at the ground. It spits out a 0-5v signal that you can “tell” the ecu to interpret as a wheelie if it shows a rise of too much and start pulling power out. We got bikes running low 6.30s at 230mph in the quarter on true street tires no wheelie bars. The US bike drag racers are seriously into this shit and way ahead of any other country. I’ve seen some of the busa stuff trickle over to Australia and the UK now that it’s been out for 20 years. He must not know what a grudge bike is, 😂 there’s a no time shown race that pays 90k to the winner and more tracks/promoters are jumping onto the grudge race stuff with big payouts.
cos like formula 1 turbos the turbo bikes are tricky to ride,similar to 2 stoke bikes "powerband" especially with yamahas "exup" valve which enhanced the already revvy nature of these engines,all high powered oil based vehilces are going,like it or not,seen many busua's get flipped on the road and track attempting rocket take offs,happens to quick for many riders to control
to appreciate a turbo machine, u gotta own one and ride one. I have never rode a turbo bike, but I own two turbo cars. Once the boost kicks in, all hell break loose and its a lot of fun. Its like MAGIC. Everything has a compromise, but honestly I recommend yall to try anything turbo, its incomparable !
man i hate the internet. every video feels like it's a college essay. everything is so annoying and formulaic. did you seriously have to go back to 1905 and explain the origin of turbos just to talk about why they're not good on bikes? damn.
Imagine taking a turn and the sudden turbo torque boost kicks your rear wheel out and you end up sliding into a wall during a 1st place position in a race.
I've had two turbo motorcycles, a Yamaha SECA Turbo 650 and a Honda CX500TC. Both were a lot of fun with their own ideosyncrosies. The Yamaha was actually an "aftermarket" product done for Yamaha but the hot location and distance from the turbo to the intake caused massive turbo-lag and oil change requirements. The best oil I found that could handle the heat was for heavy duty diesel engines from AmsOil. The Honda was actually the ONLY full factory turbo available at the time. ALL the others were aftermarket units built for their respective badges. The Honda was actually the best as far as driveability is concerned in my opinion. The Yamaha had the tendency to accelerate when downshifting on twisting canyon roads which undoubtedly caused many of the infamous crashes. The Honda could be put on boost, driven and shifted on boost and not become an unguidable missile! Honda's use of one pipe for exhaust and the other for wastegate was interesting and you could really hear the difference. It was the refusal by insurance companies to insure them that killed the turbo motorcycle rather than any issues with the bikes themselves. Further developement with intercoolers and blow-off valves would have addressed the remaining issue with turbo-lag had insurance companies not killed them off.
What about the Honda Nighthawk Turbo bike from the Early-2000’s? Its a 4cyl 1200cc turbo motor I believe. Or it never came out, but they did use the motor.. The Honda Aquatrax Turbo (Waverunner/Jet Ski) is based off this Honda engine. It has EFI and has a Honda Turbo engine 1200cc 4cyl motorcycle engine basically.. Its makes 200HP stock for the Turbo model and then they also made a NA model which I believe was a 1400cc and it had 140hp I think.. Its a super fast engine and it sounds like a racing motor with a straight piped exhaust even with the water flowing thru the exhaust after the turbo. Runs like a Honda! It uses an IHI turbo i believe and it’s Oil & Water Cooled. Has an PWG controlled by a solenoid from the engine’s ECU..
Like many engine technologies there can be huge improvement over time with further development incorporating technology that was not available back when something was less of a great idea due to realities. Already certain turbos are surprising many people for not having the awful lag proplems of early set ups. For example there is a CARB legal turbo setup made by a british outfit I want to say BBR? Whatever the name it is working better than it would seem possible on ND1 Miatas I know one key was using big turbos with smaller amount of boost resulting in like 33% increase very torquey they say V8 like power who knew? Yamaha supposedly is about to debut a new 3 cylinder turbo R1 1000cc motorcycle and Im pretty sure they wont do it unless it is amazing
I had an XJ650 Turbo - the boost made the bike excellent - a bike that probably would have been exceedingly dull., otherwise - great fairing too. Plus I had a friend with a GPz750Turbo, who used to regularly run against the (then) new thing - VFR750 Interceptor - the turbo won every contest.... Good Vid tho...
I happy with my Honda CB750 Custom. Dose need a bit of work, like Clutch needs adjusted or rebuild, Starting to slip... and Exhaust Gaskets need replacing... or Heads just rebuilt because the Valves are Adjusted to the max and Rattle to beat hell until warmed upped. Sill Vary Much Ride able. 27,000 on it but previous own treated it like one of his dirt bikes. Bike itself Looks Mint, it just the engine and clutch that need the work.
Don't know if you follow Greg's Airplanes and Autos, but he has some fascinating videos on the issues of implementing turbochargers in aircraft. In anything that you have to be even remotely space and weight conscious, you pretty much have to design the entire aircraft around it. As near as I can tell, the P-47 was the only successful turbocharged single engine fighter of the war, and the design literally started from, "I have an engine, and I have a turbo. How do I wrap the smallest possible plane around this?" You look at the P-47 and you'll think I'm joking. I am not.
Motorcycles with turbochargers are a accident going someplace to happen. That thing called turbocharger has a issue that makes them not that great for a motorcycle, TURBO LAG. rode one quite a few years back and hated it, it was damn fast and powerful but the power delivery simply SUCKED. Basically the boost hit like a sledge hammer after a "SUPPRISE" time delay of it kicking in. Well if you were at the Drag Strip you could somewhat control it, but on the street where you are not going WFO in a straight line for a few seconds it could easily KILL YOU. In a corner it was simply DEADLY, if you rolled the throttle on in a corner as normal suddenly you may or may not have a sudden aggressive power gain. Now just think about that, you are in a corner and roll on the throttle then suddenly you have a huge increase of power the front wheel coming up or the bike wanted to stand up. Many tries were made to minimize this explosive power gain but it still a problem and it cost a small fortune to build. Simply you were robbing Peter to pay Paul.
The video talks about very old motorcycles with carburetor and precarious cooling. From the 90's we had huge improvements in cooling, and the beginning of the use of mass electronic injection in the best motorcycles. With this, it was possible to better control the delivery of the turbo, in addition to new forging techniques for pistons and others. today, we have controllers like "Fueltech" that it is possible to control how much pressure comes by RPM, by RPM+gear, or by other different methods. you can configure a motorcycle with 400hp, which at low revs behaves like a normal motorcycle delivering very little pressure, and as you go up rpm and changing gears, pressure increases, thus keeping the motorcycle controllable for the day to day, and a demon when accelerating! no one will be able to control a bike that delivers 400hp in first gear. There's no traction control that can do that. therefore, today it is indeed possible and very viable to use a turbo, or even a centrifugal supercharger in motorcycles, and in most cases, it is possible to apply 0.8 to 1.2bar with the original engine, depending on the original rate. the dynamic ratio rule for cars is the same as for motorcycles: up to 21:1 for STD engines, and up to 32:1 for full forged.
You should check out Trick-Star's kawasaki zx25r : ruclips.net/video/q2U5u4pGDFc/видео.html 250cc, inline 4 turbo making 100hp and reviving to 18.000 rpm at 1.0bar, reaching 243km/h on gps edit : here is a great test session at Suzuka (+ dyno run) : ruclips.net/video/WdN-reQiRNw/видео.html
turbo is not bad. build the whole system so that you have 2 turbos. one small and one normal. program it so that the small one responds at very low speeds (approx. 2k), when the speeds increase the second one switches dynamically. This way you have performance without bad steering.
I rode a CX650 once, test drove it for a friend who wanted to buy it. He didn't have a license so the dealer wouldn't let him ride it. Did some in town riding to get a feel for it and see how it handled, then went to try some highway time. The onramp had a double curve in it, so I rolled through power on (it did handle nicely). Heading up the ramp I cranked the throttle to about 3/4 so I could merge into traffic. About the time I made a second look back the turbo kicked in, damn near went backwards off the seat! By the time I got my head back forward, the speedo was pegged at 85 and I was still in 2nd gear... Took the next exit and straight back to the dealer, told my friend "No, you'll kill yourself."
Unmanageable other than a straight line? I find it hard to believe they're more difficult than the 3,4,or 5 cylinder 500cc 2 strokes. Esp if those early ones were only pushing 100hp even with the turbo. I believe the gp bikes were well above the 100hp mark. But I've never ridden an old turbo bike (or gp for that matter) so I might not know what I'm talking about
the turbo lag is just like the 1970s kawi H2...... (which is the best sounding engine ever made.... tied with the 900/1200cc triple 2 stroke in kawi's 90 jet skis) . and now... kawi did it again, the crazy buggers...... but this time its a supercharger..... so you get a more "smooth" boost and power
I have a turbo hayabusa. The issues that I have had were self inflicted. I have 14000 miles total on the bike and it’s been turbo’d for 8000. When the turbo kicks in and you hear it spoil and feel the power come in it feels insane! It is the most fun on two wheels imo!
I have a buddy with a turbo ZX10 built motor and trans air shifted it’s a street/strip build but more strip then any thing but sees a ton of street miles. I’ve personally seen it make over 460whp on the dyno but I’ve only rode it on what he calls the street tune and still makes 350+hp and it’s the scariest thing with less than 4 wheels I’ve ever drove even at 100+mph on the highway it will do rolling burnouts as long or how dumb you are sometimes it will feel like it’s gonna wheelie and then blow the tire and spin or feel like it’s gonna spin and wheelie it’s a wild bike you couldn’t pay me to take it to the track put it on the the 2 step and make a pass it scares me and I’m hard to scare he doesn’t run it on a slick the class’s he runs you have to run a DOT tire he runs a Shinko or something like that They don’t say drag radial on them but that’s basically what they are he’s been 4.90’s with no bars and a dot tire In the 1/8 it’s got more in he’s made some changes over the winter it’s got some stupid expensive carbon fiber wheels and bearings and a new intercooler and cold side! We will see soon
@@woodgrain18 I run a shinko hook-up pro. I can dump the clutch and start a rolling burnout at 80-90 😅 on the street.
@@TachySteve parents didnt approve of me and a racing buddy{dirtbikes under honda} doing a day trip to la and back from sacramento on turbo busas. in hs. never looked down passed 220. both were friends drag bikes. around 4 hour ride no traffic at 150+ the whole way. we were god damn idiots
@@rattyratstuff7125 how dare you! I would never go over the speed limit 🫢
And how many manufacturers are going to sell 300-400 horsepower motorcycles to the common person?
Turbos don't ruin anything. Bad tuning and lack of effective boost control ruin things. Turbos do exactly what you tell them to do.
@Edward Elizabeth Hitler Amennn :-)
A turbo raped and murdered my wife and kids. Turbos have ruined my life. #standuptoturbos
The delay in response and power is a turn off for some people
@@MegaAsdlf I like turbos ,,,
@Edward Elizabeth Hitler it's really not. Trust me. You will never get a turbo engine to respond like a well done n/a or pdsc engine
The Honda was very clever & basically showed off their technical prowess at the time, but the Kawasaki was definitely the best of the bunch. But, like 6 cylinders, it was an evolutionary cul de sac for production motorcycles. The Kawasaki H2, being supercharged has re-opened the interest in forced induction.
Super chargers have a more subtle boost spread over the entire power band the turbo has a window it operates in. Too much compression is bad it will kill the engine faster.
@@AKlover centrifugal superchargers raise boost in a linear way compared to rpm but the subtly of the boost curve is dependent on the gear ratio that's running it. Turbo and exhaust technology has come a long way since the bikes of the 80's and with a proper sized turbo a lot of modern bikes could definitely stay within boost throughout most of the usable powerband easily. A simple way to keep a turbo's boost more linear would be different driving modes working together with an electronic wastegate to allow different desired boost levels. As for the longevity of engines under high compression, you gotta pay to play if you want to go fast.
talking about the CBX vs the Z1300 is not the same as forced induction. Had you mentioned the Seca 650 TURBO I would have had at least an oz of respect for ya, but, you talking about oranges when apples are being sold bruh. Wake the Fu*k Up. I do have a ZX11 I installed a turbo on with a 4 lb boost gate limit which is more than enough cause the bike is stoopid fast to begin with. With the turbo and re-jetting I can outrun the H2 Easily, not the H2R with the supercharger on it, but all other super bikes that try and out run me find out just how lame their STOCK bikes really are. Love nothing more than to leave a Ducati, Aprilia, H2 or any other liter bike in my dust. Then they pull up cause the turbo is hidden from view and ask what I did to it. I tell them I used a power commander and increased jet sizes. Then one of em said I coulda swore i heard a turbo kick in. I then told the truth and they all wanted me to boost their bikes. I wished em all the best of luck, but NO was my answer. It takes considerable skill and testing to get it all dialed in just right, and when you hit that sweet spot, well the bike speaks for itself.
@@anonimous2451 cool story bro 🙄
It was about a decade before the CX ever found a turbo, here in Southern California you could buy and have the factory install in American turbo pack turbo charger. And some like the KZ1R TC, could be ordered right from the factory.
Too bad none of the turbo bikes you can get from the factory, never had an intercooler. The whole reason the supercharged H2 isn't intercool, less plumbing but more importantly it flows so much air it doesn't need one. I had high hopes for the variable vein systems found in a few turbos. Showed a lot of promise, just not the right guys working on the problem.
Ooops, never mind, wrote that before I saw the video
Some missing context in this video is why the Japanese started putting turbos on their motorcycles in the first place. At the time Reagan put a huge tariff on larger displacement motorcycles to protect Harley Davidson's sales who were in a very desperate financial situation at the time. The Japanese went to turbos to gt higher horsepower machines on the market with lower displacement engines and dodge the tariffs. Except for the Z1RTC, that's just Kawasaki being insane awesome.
LMAO, so much for Reagan's and US right's "free market". As soon as the free market worked against US companies, such as when more fuel efficient Japanese and European cars became hot hits, they all doubled down.
I just heard about this the other day. Apparently, at some point, Honda put a car motor in the motorcycle, and then they had to change the engine size because of Harley Davidson being afraid of being outsold. So his bike has the smaller displacement 4 cylinder engine because of that.
I can't speak for the other turbobikes but my 85 Kawasaki 750 turbo is a real pleasure to ride. Yes, when it spools up you better have a trajectory planned out. They should never have stopped building them. Crazy fun.
I drove a 750 Turbo for over 100k miles between 1986 and 1993. Such a great bike, but when the turbo kicked in, you'd better be holding on tightly and leaning forward. I'm 6'5" and 210 lbs., and there were a couple of times I got scared, barely able to hold on.
I've ridden motorcycles for years, only recently thought about turbos.
From watching this video, if there's so much problem with delivery timing, has anybody ever thought to just have a wastegate that's open all the time and let the turbos spool up how they do.. and then like formula 1 when you're ready for the power you press a button which closes the wastegate delivering the boost exactly when you're ready for it and when you let off the button with your thumb, wastegate goes back to its naturally full open position and dump the boost.
Basically boost on demand, not whenever you hit a certain RPM
Not sure if this would be effective, but I know they're making superchargers with bypass when you're going 55 on the highway. And it takes like less than one horsepower to turn the unit when you're just blowing off
So it seems like you could have a turbo on a bike and just ride the bike as normal and then have 10 psi when you hit a button
@@Bozemanjustin
The wastegate is accuated by pressure by a hose. What you say may be possible, especially with modern turbos. As for my 85 Kawi, I would not change anything. You already have a throttle to command the turbo, and the learning curve isn't too steep if you understand how a turbo works. The 84 85 Kawi has a built in second map in the ecu that allows for overboost to keep the turbo spooled up for less lag. It is controlled by fueling only. The timing isn't even variable by boost pressure, only fueling. Putting the ecu in "race mode" allows for fuel pressure changes and makes the thing a real hoot to ride. The throttle is all you need. It is like riding an early 80s 2 stroke motocross bike except much heavier with about 4 times the HP. Mine is currently tuned to about 140 HP and I have no plans for more. That much boost at once is a fantastic sensation that I plan to enjoy until I can no longer ride. Point and shoot. Great fun! Wastegate not actuated lets the turbo make over 35psi for short time, can only maintain about 26psi. They have a low compression ratio (8.5:1) for such conditions. On a dyno the "power banana" gets huge with high boost and low compression ratios.
@@paulrogers6037 kinda Famous, Infamous for trying to Throw Rider off the back, when turbo Engaged. Couriered on a nearly new Kawa. 750 turbo, '84, got chance to Thrash it Daily, Countless times, Lovely.
@@scottlochans4180 I was a courier on mine, too! It was a leftover 1985 and bought it brand new in 1986. $3699! I was looking at the Yamaha Fazer 700, but decided on the turbo. Everyone told me it was a mistake. Nope - just a wonderful, perfect bike. Never needed anything except regular maintenance. And yes, it could easily throw you off when the turbo engaged. Scared the @#% out of me a couple of times.
Modern turbos are better now with less lag. The higher insurance cost is what may have killed them.
Obviously the visio ricer is not educated enough about the new turbines .
@@kopronko someones sounds mad
@James Wheeler Only idiots are satisfyed with useless rumbling around, combined with a lack of power.
@@Original_Major wasn't me ...
Wrong. It's widely accepted that a naturally aspirated motorcycle of equal power (larger displacement) will always outperform the turbocharged motorcycle
My mates got a bmw bike with a wrx turbo on it. It's really fast but spends most of its life in a garage being fixed cus its always breaking
My mate's got an old Jaguar XJS12 that's similar except it's slow on top of always being in the shop.
😄 of course 👍 Nice hobby though.
Imagine getting low reliability BMW with premium price parts😂 LOL
Its kind of a trade off, want power... Things are going to break. Ride it on the weekends, fix it during the week.
Because of bmw lol
A modern turbo bike would be an entirely different animal compared to factory and homemade 80s turbos 🤦
Yet, they do not exist even in 2022. There are rumours and concept, but without a production model we can only speculate if ever something…
@@VisioRacer not much speculation to be done when you see how well a properly tuned home built system runs.
@@VisioRacer They don't exist purely because there is no need for them to exist. A 1000cc engine provides all the power 99.9% of people ever need in a cheaper less complicated package. But as a proof of concept, it would now be easily possible to create a turbo bike that was so smooth in power delivery, you wouldn't even know it was turbo'd.
@@VisioRacer umm... Kawasaki Ninja H2 is turbocharged production model, available in US and EU since 2015. And it's regarded as fast and agile sportbike.
@@michawesoy2728 It is supercharged, not turbocharged
I had a 750 turbo in the early 90s, it was the best vehicle i have ever experienced. It had a straight through pipe, and it could power wheelie with a pillion at about 80mph and used to power slide exiting roundabouts... And i blew off 2 Gpz1100s on the drag strip... And lost a police BMW bike on twisty roads once. Good times.
Makes me wanna gpz swap my kz650
Kinda Famous, Infamous for trying to Throw Riders OFF the back, ?, Hang On, for life, when Turbo Engaged. Couriered on a nearly new Kawa.750 GPZ turbo, '84 Thrashed it Daily, Countless times, Lovely bike. Enjoyed my nearly new Kawa. GT750 shaft drive, more all round, than the turbo, GT would sit at a Planted 140 mph. ALL DAY LONG, got the £50 Fine, 3 Months ban, that proves it. March '85 Glasgow to Leeds, Booting it down to England, near Carlisle, Petrol station?, Police come flying in, ' You're Under Arrest ?, We've been chasing you, for 30 miles, God knows what I was doing ?, Dumfries Sheriff Court, Guesstimated 138 mph. ?, Good guess. Match '19, no bike Kawasaki, for 27 years, got a 05 very very healthy Bandit 650 inj., 20, 21 months of Blessed Bandit Time Times, got a PhD Masters Degree in Bandit Torque Enjoyment only, nothing technical, at least 58, 59 times more biking joy, than the turbo. I'm now a HOPEFULLY only, semi retired Crazy Mad Banditateer, FEKKIN Banditless Banditaholic, ruined for any other bike, and I ain't even lying.Yours truly Scott Loch. Na, Professor Bandit B.T.E. Torque Enjoyment only, out.
I've lost track of how many Motorcycles I've owned. My GPZ750 Turbo was to most fun of any of them. Turbo lag was almost no existent, you could actually get full boost at a stoplight in neutral.
Obviously you get no turbo lag when you already start in high RPM thus the turbo is spooled up.
One place where it could be interesting would be on a big tourer like a goldwing. Those bikes are already big, complex and expensive. Plus, they would benefit from the torque increase from a turbo, and from the eventual engine downsizing.
There was a guy in Canada several years ago who built a turbo kit for a GL1800, guess it made enough power to annihilate any sportbike in a roll-on up to about 140 mph. No room on that bike to turbo it effectively though.
They don't make those engines large for power. They want i6 for smoothness. Power is a byproduct of making an i6 efficient.
I think a supercharger may be better as the power should be able to be deliver smother power
The point of a turbo on a road bike is to make up for lack of displacement. Those big tour bikes have tons of torgue and displacement. Most are over 1800 cc.
They have monster engines in them and the power comes on smoothly and is very linear. A turbo may only upset that kind of bike. I can see why that may seem
exciting. I'm afraid that it would make the bike almost unmanageable. When the turbo kicks in on a small displacement bike, it's easy to handle. A turbo on a
large displacement bike would be like have a jet pack under you. The front end would begin to float and off the road you would go.
I don't know if you remember a bike Honda made. The V65 Honda Magna. A V4 cylinder 1100 cc cruiser. The front end was racked out and the seat sat low
and back behind this massive engine. No turbo, just natural aspiration. The most common accident with that bike was due to the excessive acceleration and
torque. As the bike accelerated, the front end began to slowly rise. Eventually taking the rider somewhere they didn't intend to go.
Very true. S/C would be probably be better and smoother though..
I had a 92 Suzuki 1100r with turbo and Intercooler back in the days. It had carburetors so it was a little bit wild. Got 345 horsepower on the backwheel. Best and funniest bike I ever owned 🤣
Best Bike ever!
345hp, holy heck. Must have been quite the handful when you gave it the beans.
Beeg turbo on a car: Sane human in need of mo' powah baby.
Beeg turbo on a motorcycle: Literal pshycopath.
MO POWAH BABY ✌🏻😂
-someone in donut media
@@chokycoki17 🙌 Ramchargers 🙌
MO POWAH BABEH
Ruins Motorcycles? Please. Everyone that's ridden one of my turbo bikes hops off with a stupid grin on their face, saying "I want one!".
You can tell by the criticisms in the comments that the critics have never ridden a turbocharged motorcycle.
Please, watch the video carefully. I try my best to say why it is not a good idea and where a turbo bike excels. I have ridden fast bikes, not turbos, but above 1000cc and I am more than happy with my 790. I am a corner guy, not much of a straight roads fan. Anyway, objective statements were mentioned in the video.
@Bo Oliver Learn to be nice
Yamaha filed a few patents a couple of years ago, which have similarities to a turbocharged MT-07 and MT-09. I really hope turbocharging will make it one more time before electric bikes will be the only option. Great video showing the history of this topic.
Real biker would never buy an electric motorcycle
I think Honda also did a turbo patent for the Africa twin.
I think If turbos come back it will be to reduce emissions like thay have on cars.
@@janjakus3596 real inner love to ride and don’t care where the power comes from.
@@axelotl86 yup, I really don't need a shaking or noisy engine to have fun I just want turns lol. The only thing I'd be missing is the technical part of blipping down while breaking, staying in the right rpm range etc. Having to play with the clutch at low speeds is also fun in a way, because it's so satisfying for me in a sense, but a well made gas response wouldn't bother me at low speeds on an electric motorcycle.
@@janjakus3596 ......purely an entitlement narrative on what constitute a biker or motorists in general. I don't see who writes such rule books...maybe the obsolete bunch unwilling to the complexity of changing world dynamics.
Instead of adding turbo, loads of pipes, intercooler, boost controller and other supporting mods, just add 200-400cc to the NA engine.
Turboes begin to make sense above 1200cc.
I love my 2.0 turbo car, but it looses breath up top and it needs ½ second to react from 0- full throttle (the opposite of what you want on a bike).
A 10 year newer turbo would change things, but twin scroll, ball bearing, billet wheel and all that would just increase complexity and cost even more.
Saab?
@@youtubeisinconsistent9169 yes
@@larsjrgensen5975 I had a 9-3 lol, the way you described it I just knew. 🤣
Uhhm yeah you can turbo any cc. Your 1200cc comment is rather brainless.
You do realise that all the new small cars have 800cc to 1000cc with 3 cilinder motors and turbo charged.... Facepalm
@@omgwtflmaololrotfl2368 reread his last sentence. 🤫
Well the XN had a frame in stiffness comparable to the Katana or even possibly better , hence the superior handling , the drawback was the Nicco Bakker patented rear suspension "Full Floater" which Suzuki had made FAR to progressive , even with a spring from a BIC pen or similar it was stupidly progressive , but one could ride around that once having learned the quirks....just by installing a bleed valve on the boost line to the ECU and a progressive fuel pressure regulator one easily got it up to 130 hp... mine is today 200 hp.with further tweeks....
I still want one anyway though.... 😅 - Taz.
I think about one thing for now a very long time and I want to build it at some point in my life
A 1.6 liter turbocharged diesel bike
I would think cruiser bikes could really benefit from having a small turbo setup like VW 1.8T, low end effortless torque.
For street bikes the linear rotrex style superchargers are the way to go!
Smiles per gallon indeed, wonder if there could be a way to implement a bypass system to use boost when it's needed instead of all the time
maybe you could set up an exhaust that directs the gases based of a switch?
So like a sport mode of sorts
you can run without boost yes
So like a wastegate
This "bypass" system has existed on cars for decades now too. Some people use this to run something called "boost by gear" where the car makes less boost, and thus less power in lower gears. There's also boost by speed, which is self explanatory.
@@yummyhershey5902 Boost by gears can work well on car but on bike???
My Kawasaki 750 turbo did big miles, and was as near enough as fast as the several 900r’s were , so you missed out on a very special bike 😉
As a 750turbo owner i can tell from experience these bikes are real fun. Not the easiest to drive, when u get that turbo kicking in man you better hold tight , but when You get the feel for them its hard to drive any other bike ever
Superchargers are the only way to go. I’d like to see a positive displacement super for the smoothest power delivery.
N/A Forever!
on an inline it's kinda difficult tho
@@davonmulder8458 You have the Ninja H2 though, basically running a belt-driven turbo.
@@WildWildWeasel yes, that is a centrifical supercharger, this comment talks about a positive displacement supercharger, wich is a very different design
@@davonmulder8458 twin screw ones are a whole nother animal though cus of space constraints, that's why Kawasaki didn't go with one.
They were expensive ,heavy (and therefore ill handling) bikes that made no more power than NA models of a similar weight and larger displacement.
Newer mid range bikes NA were making more power within 10 years.
Americans liked them because they never had the sense to put bends in their roads
@sourand jaded We used to have a lot in NZ,but now, where ever they cross a major road ,the minor road is misaligned (no X intersection) and has stop signs, so locals can't just blast through the intersection (It's always the locals)
Now they have to find uncontrolled rail crossings to get themselves killed on.
Kawasaki's GPZ 750 what's the best of the turbos fastest and best looking.
h2r sweating in the corner while reading the thumbnail
The H2 is supercharged not turbo charged.
Turbos make more power but the power curve is not linear
Super chargers have a linear power curve just like naturally aspirated vehicles but are limited by the engine rpm itself.
Turbos are just dangerous on motorcycles because if you get that power boost while in a corner you may lose traction.
@@kitsachie. oh yeah i forgot, i just wanted to make a funny comment tbh😅 anyways thanks for correcting me nicely mostly people are mean
Been watching you for 6 years now love your content 💪
my cat loves u too🐱♥️♥️♥️
Appreciate it!
completely wrong. it is and was an amazing idea but they didnt do a pre break in before new owners got them. new owners went around like a bat outta hll and blw ngins within the first few weeks. kawi removed all warranty on anything but suspension and wiring. this gave them a bad rep and after that the only turbo bikes were insane small company hyperbikes. the turbo kawi was a joy to ride. tame if you kept it a gear high. insanity a gear low. perfect for track and daily. even my hyped up buell 1200 was a bit much for the street and it was miles behind the cbr1000
I put 97,000 KM's on my '82 CX500Turbo, and between it and my '81 Yamaha RD350LC, they were the best, most fun bikes I've ever owned. No one who didn't own both of these at the same time and put many, many miles on them 24/7/365, will ever believe me when I say the CXTurbo was like a giant, soft and comfy version of the RD. Their powerbands were virtually identical, lol. It's a real laugh to listen to people who have never ridden, let alone owned a Turbo bike, to say a single damned bad thing about them.
The Katana was a different beast to the CX 500 turbo though. The Katana turbo came on power like an on off switch catching a few riders out mid corner.
The problem was the turbo lag, today we have ways to fix it, like in the f1 cars. Maybe we will see the idea coming back in the future.
Now they're focused on emissions, so next step is hybrid motorcycles. Honda already has a hybrid scooter. Not sure about the "fun" aspect in those...
Electric traction motors develop peak torque at zero rpm. It's easy to find small 30 HP electric motors with much more torque than even super sports make.
@@toddnickb A slippery clutch kan deliver the same torque at every rpm thats lower than max torque rpm. It's more the waste of energy in the form of heat that burns the clutch.
There enough torque for a bike when you can make a wheelie, so no need to go electric.
Most of the problems with turbos have been solved. The problem in the aftermarket is people throwing the wrong sized turbos on and also poor tuning.
What do you mean? Should I reconsider putting an 80mm turbo on the Grom I am looking to buy?
@@gmailisaretard no that’s a great idea take a video
@@gmailisaretard this is an amazing idea, put it up here when you do
@@lewis8325 If there was any chance that a Grom would be able to spin that bad boi up.
History : TURBOs came first on diesel because of exhaust temperature. (950°C in Diesel) Because of material limitations the first Petrol car turbo engines (1150°C) where forced to run very rich at high rpm to cool the turbo, and even like that, where not very reliable if you pushed them a lot. The first lean mixture petrol turbo where tiny due to manufacturing limitations of new materials. (32 35mm). Japanese manufacturers started to use them at this moment because turbo started to become reliable at this moment.
WWII P-38 lightning uses gasoline. If you run rich, you can also crank up the compression => even cooler exhaust
I want an H2🤤 love the chirp from it’s supercharger!
I have an h2 sx se and i love it!
The sound is awesome the chirping sound is hard to hear while riding it on the track
I drove a GPZ 750Turbo which belonged to a friend of mine. I was 20 years old in 91 and thought I am Freddy Spencer or Wayne Rainy. My friend said, if the boost gauge is in the middle it is enaugh.
I drove on the nearly empty Autobahn45 and spanned the rope. I thought I was flying. The powerdelivery was verry impressive after a few km I decided to go back on the twisty roads we have here in Hessen. I read signs of towns I never heard of before. I had to admit, that I was driven much more km than I thought. On the country roads it took me all my skills to tame that beast but I made it home without scratches.
A few years later Kawa came out with the 16V RAM Air 750 GPZ and a better handling. But that Turbo expirience I made sticks still in my mind.
I really enjoyed my Yamaha XJ turbo ad actually club raced one year against open class bikes. It was a lot of fun and I was never last. I also enjoyed it as a sport tourer. Probably one of the funest bikes that I have owned.
i have the NA xj750 maxim, its amazing, just did 1k miles yesterday on it, amazing bike. will take me anywhere
I had purchased a new '82 in '84 and had the Yamaha power up kit (simply tube from wastegate to airbox) that brought boost up to 15lb (if I remember right). Once boosting, just as quick as my buddy's GS1100. Absolute blast. I had made a straight pipe for the turbo & sounded cool as hell. Damn I miss that bike. Perfect sport tourer for here in MI.
@@cohocarl Yes the power up kit added a lot. I sure miss it.
So here's my opinion. Turbochargers do not ruin motorcycles, they ruined the motorcycles that were too rudimentary to handle them as well as too unsophisticated. Nowadays, there is all kinds of electrical controls for fast bikes, and it would be very easy to tame the power curve of a turbo by gradually opening the wastegate as the boost increases so that you have a flat curve. You could also have a boost control based off wheelie control as well as lean angle. Very simple, factory turbo bikes were ahead of their time
Your correct, with the modern advances in turbocharging and fuel injection, electronics and so forth. You can pretty much create any power curve you want, low end torque to screaming HP up on top. Even a little of both, it just in the tuning, air flow, fuel delivery, exhaust rate and some mechanical modifications, cam angle/ timing, head porting,etc. VGT's alone with the tuning can almost deliver a linear power through the rpm range. Similar (but not the same)to a supercharger but with out the parasitic load. Basically want it really comes down too is, how much do you want to spend?
@@michaelmurphy6869 it's not even to the point of how much do you want to spend. The changes to 1000cc bikes to make them race bikes for MotoAmerice as well as World Superbike include changing the ECU I believe. And then at that point slapping a turbo somewhere and a boost controller is not much more cost. The cost of the Garrett Club series turbos are pretty low for the gains you could have. And the bikes are built with the best of the best stuff from top to bottom for the 2 race series that I mentioned so money is not an issue
We had that turbo bike here in Brazil and not a lot of people knew how to deal with the turbo spooling up mid RPM, it used to kill it's drivers, reason why it got the nickname of Black Widow.
é nao, a rd350 era 2t.
I had a 1977 Kawasaki Z 1000 A2. I am crying while seeing this...
Mine was a i4 with 4 carbs. It was horror so sync them perfectly. BUT if you have done your Job right, this bike was a dream to drive. Comfortable, powerful, easy to repair and modify. I had gas powered shocks and fork. Sporty tyres with good grip.
It was my dreambike and last year i had to sell it. The fuel here in germany become so bad, it destroyed all sealings on the tank, fuellines, carbs... When i have fixed all leaks, i had 4 weeks and then do it all again.
As i said, sync 4 carbs is horror.
I ended in spending more time in fixing than driving.
Was it the ethanol in the fuel that was causing all the damage? If so, that can be removed pretty easily. Just add water and let it settle into separate layers. You end up with less fuel, but at least it's real gasoline.
@@ahobimo732 I owned the bike since mid 90s. Back then i NEVER had problems. Yes i had to clean the carbs once a year, but that was all.
I tried the ethanol reducing in 2020 and 2021. In this small scale it was not really a problem. But the reduced fuel had other problems. It has lower octane rates. Instead of 98 octane, it got arround 90. I had to use the choke even in summer when starting.
The whole garage smelled like bad fuel and i got this "dirty water" i don't know where to dispose. Tip it in a drain at the road could cause problems. I guess the police would call this environmental pollution and give me penalty.
So thanks for the hint. I have done all i could to keep it. The only solution would be to convert from carbs to fuel injection. A later model had a fuel injection, but my local bike shop said, i had to change so much, that i should buy the later model. Its much easier.
Now the prices for fuel go up. Here in germany we pay arround 2 € per litre. That is more than 7,5 € per gallon. Or $ 7.9 per gallon.
@@TobiasRieperGER Yeah...I never thought about the octane problem. It makes sense though. I live in eastern Canada where there is FAR less government regulation, so disposing of the water wouldn't be a problem here, but I can see how it would be different for you. Honestly, I don't know if I could handle living in Germany. I have so many freedoms that I take for granted here. But on the other hand, I'm practically living in the middle of the woods, so... 🤷🏼♂️
Fuel had gotten a lot more expensive here in Canada recently as well. It's about $2.25/litre here right now. It'll probably hit $3.00 before the year ends. The transition to electric is being pushed pretty hard. Even though the technology isn't really ready yet (imo). It might work for urban environments, where people only have small distances to travel, but for rural areas, I don't think it's really feasible yet. So us "country folk" are getting kinda screwed.
I think the reasons you express here are wrong. I am a fan of old bikes, mainly late 70 to late 80. The problem at the time was to get more power you need bigger engine. 1000cc engines were seriously heavy. The 6 cylinders approach were successful in power but the engine and frame combination made the bikes impossible to control on the bends, when leaning you will feel a the engine like a passenger that is not holding into nothing. Really scary as it reacts unpredictable. Because aspirated engines did not work, they tried turbos, adding just 5 to 10kg (in theory) to a 600 or 700 bike to reach the power of a 1000. The bad thing that happen you have explained well. Turbo lag, complexity, etc. However with the turbo all the manufacturers gain experience in fueling, cooling, handling and manufacturing. In 85 they knew the solution, the technology was developed. Liquid cooling, fuel injection, better and different frame dressings. The turbo era open the technology for today's motorbikes where turbo were not needed as the path would take the engines further to a power never seen before. (1000cc 200HP), but we are reaching the end of this technology. The H2 is a statement that says that turbo may come back. Maybe the new super tourer bikes world be a 700 or 1000 with a low compression two stage turbo like in many cars today. And today installing a turbo doesn't require much added weight. The new generation of bikes could offer 150HP on a 600cc bike capable of cruising at insane speeds with a torque of a 1500cc bike. Transporting two better than a gold wing.
Turbo lag is no longer an issue.
In the early day they were using too big Turbos so the lag was very noticeable.
But now they have figured it out and use smaller turbos or sometime Compound Turbos in cars.
Those turbos are pretty small 🤷🏻♂️
@@VisioRacer Yes, but even those are too big.
Look at the turbo on the Passat TDI engine and that is for a two liter engine.
For a one liter engine you need half the size of that.
The Passat has no Turbo lag.
A twin scroll turbo, with diverter to get it to spool faster, and if variable geometry could be fitted, making it make power, without lag, and a boost tank to keep boost after shifting,
I could also imaging a u engine, with counter rotating cranks, with 2cylinders each , with 75mm bore , 40mm
stroke . 3v per cylinder, or a 2cyl
Having, in my salad days, driven a KZ900 turbo vs a Suzuki 1100, I can definitely say that the turbo bike simply wasn't much fun. It was fast, sure, but it was not quick. The Suzuki on the other hand was like astoundingly quick. It actually reminded me of a 2 stroke the way it pulled through the gears, lifting and carrying the front wheel in a third gear roll on out of a sweeper.
Back n the 80 my mate stuck a turbocharger he got off a ford cortina onto Suzuki Katana a 900cc one. Think of the loudest bike you ever heard. Now double it lol. He ended up becoming a successful engineer. He did the bike while we were still at school.
I had a GPZ750 turbo. Apart from the turbo being a bit fragile having only phosphor bronze bearings it was a great fun bike.
Motorcycle Tires were pushed past their limits in the 80s. On modern Tires these are fine Bikes.
I absolutely LOVED my CX500 Turbo. I commuted on it, and fell in love with the bike. The turbo didn't really spool up if you were just grannying around, and that was great. All you needed to do for a good boost is downshift. ;)
Even though I am not part of the generation, I greatly appreciate the time when motorcycle manufacturers were adventurous.
You mean, the Japanese.
@@Billswiftgti ....the Japanese seem to be the ones that display creativity on two wheeled machines, both real as well as fiction...like Akira or Final Fantasy.
You have the Ninja H2 now though, basically running a belt-driven turbo.
It's basically a belt-drive chain-drive turbo.
1:30 For the record - the first ever pruduction car to have a turbo charged engine was the fabulous BMW 2002tii back in 1973 and it was a blast. For competition applications they upgraded them up to 500-600 hp (weighting about 900kg!) which was something hard to imagine at that time for 2litre engines. Unfortunately BMW turned their backs on turbo charging technology for gasoline engines for decades and permitted brands like AUDI, Volvo, Saab, Porsche and most Japanese manufacturers like Mitsubishi, Subaru, Toyota to build real iconic cars, while BMW followed their quest for NA perfection.
I owned a CX-500 Turbo in the 80's, and LOVED IT. Great all rounder cycle single or two-up, rain or shine, and perfect high speed tourer. I NEVER experienced a 2 second turbo lag... ever.
Yea I had one,my friend had one,the only problem was turbo seals and they start smoking,my friend would win racing RDs in the quarter mile and it was funny to hear all that furry from a two stroke and the turbo put put put down the 1/4mile way ahead of the rd
Is it possible to turbocharged a much smaller engine like 100cc engine?
I really love how you and your chanel evolved. Your english now is really good and you still make really good content
Thank you, Hans!
Great content, but his pronunciation is extremely rough
A surge in power while cornering is a recipe for disaster. Supercharged is the way to go.
Turbo charging a 50cc GY6 based scooter was a hoot and a half though. Mostly because a moped like that is ridden at wide open throttle anyway, so it's never going to be off boost.
Swap out some rollers, change the clutch pack, fiddle around with the final drive ratio, shim the bottom of the cylinder and slap on a turbo.
It's the one big loophole in the legal technical requirements on moped here. You can't increase displacement over 50cc and you can't increase top speed over 55kph. But there is nothing on the books that says you can't strangle 7kW from a 50cc moped and launch like a rocket at the lights.
I love the '83 CX650TD I bought in 1998. I still have it and it still tries to pull my arms off. When I was looking for a new car in 2010, I bought a Honda Fit over its competition because I wanted a car built by the company that had the audacity to build that exotic, reliable bike. 12 Year and 180,000 trouble-free miles later, that car is 100% reliable. Honda lost gobs of money developing their turbo but the patents and technology transferred to their autos and gave them a huge edge over the American cars of the malaise era.
Honda has an excellent grasp of airflow....I'm thinking of that rc166 that revved to like 20-22k back in the 60s.
All I've seen are videos ,and the comments are funny because every other one is : 2 stroke? 🤣
Nah, just good old revs.
Back in 1982 owned a Honda CBX, inline 6 / 24 valve, 6 carb. sport touring. Installed a turbo kit by American Turbo Pak (aka: Mr. Turbo). Hadn't bothered to swap pistons to a lower comp. ratio but kept a conservative boost. Single carb. Stock was rated at 100hp. After the turbo, lost much of the bottom end torque but on the boost was far more entertaining. Did some cannonballing around the states. Triple digits at length would require refuel every 100 miles, yet was more fuel efficient than stock. No comparison and dogs to today's technology, but back then it was cool and everything from lawn chairs to my 82 ur-quattro coupe was turbo.
This vid should be renamed "Why a Turbo Makes For The Most Exciting Motorcycle You'll EVER Ride!" Take it from someone who's owned several of them 😁
So does making a bike turbo like installing it afyer market is that good?
I have a honda cb150r and i want to turbo it
you sound like a vampire lol, what is this accent?
The best bike I have ever owned was the Honda CX500T Turbo. That bike was a great highway bike and it also handled well in the corners. A little top heavy with the five
gallon fuel tank, but hat weight balanced the bike out nicely for long rides. Turbo lag was an issue if you were only interested in 0 to 60. Once the bike reached
2500 rpm and began to breath. It was a rocket ship. I rarely passed cars one at a time. I passed them in gobs. This bike went from sixty to ninety in a few seconds.
It was like being on a catapult. The acceleration was addictive. A friend and owner of the local Honda bike dealership had a CBX. He would have to drop two gears
just to keep me in sight. He would catch me eventually. By then we would have run out of road. We were riding back from the MX Nationals that were held in Milville MN.
I had my future wife on the back of the bike. A few of the guys were on Gold Wings. One on a 750 Interceptor and one was on a Yamaha 650. He had an older speedometer
that went over 130 mph. Mine was the new mandated speedometer that only went up to 85 mph. He said I left him when he was doing 122 and we were two up.
That bike was a blast and I wish I had never sold that bike. I later had a CBR1000. It was a nice bike but it did not accelerate like that CX500T.
next video we find out why turbo lawn mowers dont work
A riding buddy of mine got a hold of a Bennile 6 around 11,00 cc,s with turbo single carb and water injection, the oil drain line for the turbo dumped oil into the sump thru the oil feed hole (dipstick), nobody ever checked the oil level, the engine seized and one valve some how went thru the turbo and destroyed all six pistons and the head was pure junk
I own a gpz750a1 that i built a turbo setup for and spent time on a factory 750 turbo. Kawaski never called it a gpz750 turbo. Just the 750 turbo. And the chassis was essentially the same bit was braced differently. Mainly because of the turbo position. I did hear the tubing was thicker but no way to confirm that. The structure of the engine was the same but kaw used a sub oil pan and second pump for the turbo drain setup to prevent oiling issues. The 750turbo could have done more but there were issues because the gpz11 at the time made 120hp just like the 750. My 750a1 made 80hp. I think they stopped the factory power there but the bikes has a "race mode" you could unlock with some wiring that made the bikes faster.
750 turbo was very ridable but even my non turbo bike could break the tire loose on lean. My bike now runs gsxr suspension with proper brakes and tires and it made a huge difference. I think the reason these went away was due to the gpz900 and the development of the liquid cooled 4cyl gpz and eventually zx line.
We had a blast on our 85 gpz 750 turbo, my wife would watch the boost gauge over my shoulder she knew when to hang on!
I have a yamaha 650 xj turbo thar I restored. I added a boost controler, shimmed the pop off valve, HD clutch springs and a boost gauge. It's fun but no Kawi.
Someone needs to pull a Insight (gen 1) and make the starter part of the the drivetrain, it can add 'boost' when the turbo is lagging and when the turbo kicks in on a litre bike... goodbye. Little heavier but not too much.
With modern variable vane turbos with near to sod all lag I'm surprised you don't at least see big tourers with downsized turbos. 1.0 turbo Goldwing?
Ive had my cx500 turbo since new...Back in the day I cut the heads .050 which gave it about 8 to 1 compression and close to 95hp. Its been a joy to drive for 40 years. Still is like new and is very comfortable...At 65 I don't need another bike..The cx was my 15th bike in 1982. Now I have 2 modified electric sur ron bikes. I go trail riding every day and just plug it in. Can't have more fun...Great video.
Respect, after all these years the CX500 Turbo is still one of the most beautiful motorcycles ever designed. ps. and I,m an Italian motorcycle enthousiast ,)
@@marinjeam We need more Moto Guzzi Turbo :-) ruclips.net/video/ZgWf821iy0E/видео.html
@@marinjeam It's no wonder you love the styling. Honda had Italian stylist, Giovanni Michelotti, a prolific & influential designer create the innovative and curvaceous fairing and body work.
Hi
Found this video a few moments ago.
I have a GPz750Turbo from 1985.
Bought it second Hand with some issues.
My first idea was to provide some stability to the engine. When driving , i found out that after only one trip of about 250 Km's the fresh Engine-oil was done. I put a much bigger Oilcooler on ( which looks disgusting ) and built an Oil-temperature-gauge. Still the temparature of the oil showed 160° C some time, which indicated an oil-change the very next time too. Additionally did i lose/burn a lot of engine-oil.
Then i had an accident at quite low speed (~ 50Km/h ) were i broke my back twice. Since then , this beauty is waiting for repair, but my life became turbulent and ugly then.
I think, the engine has some design-flaws. The most important is that oil is vaporising when it becomes to hot and sucked into the intake. Therefore i would adopt the windbox with a oil-collector to let the oil off when home. Second, the thing that helped the engine to survive most was the addition of Ceramic-protection to the engine-oil. I would not drive this type of engine without it.
Finally :
Man , i miss the moments when the Turbo pulled me up mountainroads as if it were flat.
Modern bikes have much less weight. But the high weight of about 260Kg's makes this bike unique imho.
i left wheels through time as soon as this got uploaded !!
I own a turbocharged Honda CBX, excellent platform for forced induction. It has been turbocharged since 1993 with an ATP turbo kit and has a bunch of miles on the chassis, and around 50K on the current engine configuration. I estimate around 170 HP @ the crank @ 9 psi boost, and it is capable of a high 9 second to a 10 flat 1/4 mile ET.
If a turbo bike is not tuned properly, it will vomit parts all over the place. Mine has a total of 10 degrees advance and runs @ 32 deg. total advance all in by 3 grand, and mixture is the proper amount of fuel for a suck-through setup.
Only disadvantage is the fact that it has a 20 mpg appetite for high octane fuel, and is air-cooled requiring a small radiator-sized oil cooler, but is otherwise reliable as stock. My bike isn't ruined.......it works just fine and will still put the fear of God into you when in boost. Not too shab for a 43 year old motorcycle(bought it new from Honda).
Chickenshit insurance companies tubed the factory turbocharged motorcycles in the end. Insurance companies are run by whores and greedy slobs.
Aka usually run by that protected religion above criticism
Something to think about. My 1954 Ford Meteor got 32 miles per imperial gallon, which is about a quart more than a US gallon. In June of 1958 a barn door of a car, a Rambler got 35.37 mpg per US gallon on a cross-country challenge, from Florida to California. Fuel mileage has only gotten worse since then. Don't believe me, then you check it out. It'll make you want to puke, to see what kind of corruption the gas companies have been doing to the carmakers.
Because cars got heavier and more emissions control killed efficiency
yep, it's the weight component... in a 1400+kg car an extra 20kg of turbo equip is a good trade of for the power added... adding 20kg to a 170+kg bike not so advantageous.... turbo bikes are great, owned one, but n/a bikes have advanced so far that turbo's aren't required.
The 80s were a golden age for motorcycles. Some concepts did well, some did not, but there was always the push to make the bikes do better and better, at a pace that has seemed to slow after those times. All in all, it was a great time to be a motorcycle enthusiast!
Kawasaki is great. They built the Aircraft Carrier Kaga, one of the largest, and most capable Aircraft Carriers of WWII....except they built her in 1920. they built the Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien, which was one of the best Army Fighters of Japan in WWII. (Altough it used a Mercedes engine) They kept they heritage, and they are building great motorcycles. Altough I'm not into Motorcycles, I like Kawasaki's bikes a lot.
What killed the 80's turbo bikes was the cost vs. performance. Boosting a small cc engine to produce LESS peak power than their top superbikes, then charging MORE was suicide. Who'd want an XN85 when a GS1100E was cheaper, and 25+hp more? There wasn't even a real weight advantage... just added complexity.
If only I knew then what I know now, out of all the bikes that I had the one I miss the most is the LTD turbo built by an American turbo pack engineer. This was an 8-second streetbike when ridden by PeeWee Gleason the best I could get was 9.10 that thing love to chase down anything out there and just whip it like a rabid dog.
I still believe life begins at 200 mph that is
I remember peewee Gleason! I Been building and dragracing Suzukis and kawasakis for 30 years. These “kids” that make videos based on internet research weren’t alive when the Japanese turbo bikes were out. Probably haven’t ridden one even. So we who have know the truth. I’ve owned a kz turbo but it was terry kizers mr turbo not the ATP kit. I have ridden the z1rtc Molly graphics edition like the black 1 he showed in the video and they were fun too. Only point I will agree with is the turbo bike is really only for those of us with an addiction to straight line acceleration drag race stuff. Even though turbos are fun, I actually prefer naturally asp with nitrous as I’ve learned how to modify these big bore Suzukis from the gs1000 to the gs1100-1150, to the oil cooled gsxr 1100 to the busa and with big block/bores, stroker cranks, massive cylinder head modifications and proper camshafts it’s easy to make 230-250 hp at the tire on the engine and they can still take a 150 hp shot of dope on top with the proper tuning (lots of fuel ie big pump and injector, pull back some timing ).
WIth the availability of “relatively” cheap standalone aftermarket ecus we have now, the tuning is practically unlimited and it can control everything that we formerly needed to buy three different “black boxes” to get around the factory ecu. We even taken Banner laser distance sensors that we basically used to control industrial assembly lines and other industrial automation, build a bracket to mount it on your fork legs pointing at the ground. It spits out a 0-5v signal that you can “tell” the ecu to interpret as a wheelie if it shows a rise of too much and start pulling power out. We got bikes running low 6.30s at 230mph in the quarter on true street tires no wheelie bars. The US bike drag racers are seriously into this shit and way ahead of any other country. I’ve seen some of the busa stuff trickle over to Australia and the UK now that it’s been out for 20 years. He must not know what a grudge bike is, 😂 there’s a no time shown race that pays 90k to the winner and more tracks/promoters are jumping onto the grudge race stuff with big payouts.
cos like formula 1 turbos the turbo bikes are tricky to ride,similar to 2 stoke bikes "powerband" especially with yamahas "exup" valve which enhanced the already revvy nature of these engines,all high powered oil based vehilces are going,like it or not,seen many busua's get flipped on the road and track attempting rocket take offs,happens to quick for many riders to control
to appreciate a turbo machine, u gotta own one and ride one. I have never rode a turbo bike, but I own two turbo cars. Once the boost kicks in, all hell break loose and its a lot of fun. Its like MAGIC. Everything has a compromise, but honestly I recommend yall to try anything turbo, its incomparable !
I was waiting for sututututu... 😆
man i hate the internet. every video feels like it's a college essay. everything is so annoying and formulaic. did you seriously have to go back to 1905 and explain the origin of turbos just to talk about why they're not good on bikes? damn.
Turbos are major fun, but it has to be done right.....
Compound Turbos are the best for low end Torque and fuel Efficiency and no lag.
Imagine taking a turn and the sudden turbo torque boost kicks your rear wheel out and you end up sliding into a wall during a 1st place position in a race.
Now I have the urge to find one of the old powerplants and bolt it to a quad or a go cart. Is that wrong? LOL @1.34 in, thas our channel
Elon Musk at 3:00?
Turbo and superchargers will return. Not for power. To meet emission regulations. Same reason cars are moving to small engine turbo with hybrid.
I've had two turbo motorcycles, a Yamaha SECA Turbo 650 and a Honda CX500TC. Both were a lot of fun with their own ideosyncrosies. The Yamaha was actually an "aftermarket" product done for Yamaha but the hot location and distance from the turbo to the intake caused massive turbo-lag and oil change requirements. The best oil I found that could handle the heat was for heavy duty diesel engines from AmsOil. The Honda was actually the ONLY full factory turbo available at the time. ALL the others were aftermarket units built for their respective badges. The Honda was actually the best as far as driveability is concerned in my opinion. The Yamaha had the tendency to accelerate when downshifting on twisting canyon roads which undoubtedly caused many of the infamous crashes. The Honda could be put on boost, driven and shifted on boost and not become an unguidable missile! Honda's use of one pipe for exhaust and the other for wastegate was interesting and you could really hear the difference. It was the refusal by insurance companies to insure them that killed the turbo motorcycle rather than any issues with the bikes themselves. Further developement with intercoolers and blow-off valves would have addressed the remaining issue with turbo-lag had insurance companies not killed them off.
I built a turbo CRF250L and it was awesome/hilarious until the cheap turbo died.
What about the Honda Nighthawk Turbo bike from the Early-2000’s? Its a 4cyl 1200cc turbo motor I believe. Or it never came out, but they did use the motor..
The Honda Aquatrax Turbo (Waverunner/Jet Ski) is based off this Honda engine.
It has EFI and has a Honda Turbo engine 1200cc 4cyl motorcycle engine basically..
Its makes 200HP stock for the Turbo model and then they also made a NA model which I believe was a 1400cc and it had 140hp I think..
Its a super fast engine and it sounds like a racing motor with a straight piped exhaust even with the water flowing thru the exhaust after the turbo. Runs like a Honda!
It uses an IHI turbo i believe and it’s Oil & Water Cooled. Has an PWG controlled by a solenoid from the engine’s ECU..
Like many engine technologies there can be huge improvement over time with further development incorporating technology that was not available back when something was less of a great idea due to realities. Already certain turbos are surprising many people for not having the awful lag proplems of early set ups. For example there is a CARB legal turbo setup made by a british outfit I want to say BBR? Whatever the name it is working better than it would seem possible on ND1 Miatas I know one key was using big turbos with smaller amount of boost resulting in like 33% increase very torquey they say V8 like power who knew? Yamaha supposedly is about to debut a new 3 cylinder turbo R1 1000cc motorcycle and Im pretty sure they wont do it unless it is amazing
I had an XJ650 Turbo - the boost made the bike excellent - a bike that probably would have been exceedingly dull., otherwise - great fairing too. Plus I had a friend with a GPz750Turbo, who used to regularly run against the (then) new thing - VFR750 Interceptor - the turbo won every contest.... Good Vid tho...
I happy with my Honda CB750 Custom. Dose need a bit of work, like Clutch needs adjusted or rebuild, Starting to slip... and Exhaust Gaskets need replacing... or Heads just rebuilt because the Valves are Adjusted to the max and Rattle to beat hell until warmed upped. Sill Vary Much Ride able. 27,000 on it but previous own treated it like one of his dirt bikes. Bike itself Looks Mint, it just the engine and clutch that need the work.
Don't know if you follow Greg's Airplanes and Autos, but he has some fascinating videos on the issues of implementing turbochargers in aircraft. In anything that you have to be even remotely space and weight conscious, you pretty much have to design the entire aircraft around it.
As near as I can tell, the P-47 was the only successful turbocharged single engine fighter of the war, and the design literally started from, "I have an engine, and I have a turbo. How do I wrap the smallest possible plane around this?"
You look at the P-47 and you'll think I'm joking. I am not.
Motorcycles with turbochargers are a accident going someplace to happen. That thing called turbocharger has a issue that makes them not that great for a motorcycle, TURBO LAG. rode one quite a few years back and hated it, it was damn fast and powerful but the power delivery simply SUCKED. Basically the boost hit like a sledge hammer after a "SUPPRISE" time delay of it kicking in. Well if you were at the Drag Strip you could somewhat control it, but on the street where you are not going WFO in a straight line for a few seconds it could easily KILL YOU. In a corner it was simply DEADLY, if you rolled the throttle on in a corner as normal suddenly you may or may not have a sudden aggressive power gain. Now just think about that, you are in a corner and roll on the throttle then suddenly you have a huge increase of power the front wheel coming up or the bike wanted to stand up. Many tries were made to minimize this explosive power gain but it still a problem and it cost a small fortune to build. Simply you were robbing Peter to pay Paul.
The video talks about very old motorcycles with carburetor and precarious cooling.
From the 90's we had huge improvements in cooling, and the beginning of the use of mass electronic injection in the best motorcycles.
With this, it was possible to better control the delivery of the turbo, in addition to new forging techniques for pistons and others. today, we have controllers like "Fueltech" that it is possible to control how much pressure comes by RPM, by RPM+gear, or by other different methods. you can configure a motorcycle with 400hp, which at low revs behaves like a normal motorcycle delivering very little pressure, and as you go up rpm and changing gears, pressure increases, thus keeping the motorcycle controllable for the day to day, and a demon when accelerating! no one will be able to control a bike that delivers 400hp in first gear. There's no traction control that can do that. therefore, today it is indeed possible and very viable to use a turbo, or even a centrifugal supercharger in motorcycles, and in most cases, it is possible to apply 0.8 to 1.2bar with the original engine, depending on the original rate. the dynamic ratio rule for cars is the same as for motorcycles: up to 21:1 for STD engines, and up to 32:1 for full forged.
You should check out Trick-Star's kawasaki zx25r : ruclips.net/video/q2U5u4pGDFc/видео.html
250cc, inline 4 turbo making 100hp and reviving to 18.000 rpm at 1.0bar, reaching 243km/h on gps
edit : here is a great test session at Suzuka (+ dyno run) : ruclips.net/video/WdN-reQiRNw/видео.html
turbo is not bad. build the whole system so that you have 2 turbos. one small and one normal. program it so that the small one responds at very low speeds (approx. 2k), when the speeds increase the second one switches dynamically. This way you have performance without bad steering.
I rode a CX650 once, test drove it for a friend who wanted to buy it. He didn't have a license so the dealer wouldn't let him ride it. Did some in town riding to get a feel for it and see how it handled, then went to try some highway time. The onramp had a double curve in it, so I rolled through power on (it did handle nicely). Heading up the ramp I cranked the throttle to about 3/4 so I could merge into traffic. About the time I made a second look back the turbo kicked in, damn near went backwards off the seat! By the time I got my head back forward, the speedo was pegged at 85 and I was still in 2nd gear... Took the next exit and straight back to the dealer, told my friend "No, you'll kill yourself."
Unmanageable other than a straight line? I find it hard to believe they're more difficult than the 3,4,or 5 cylinder 500cc 2 strokes. Esp if those early ones were only pushing 100hp even with the turbo. I believe the gp bikes were well above the 100hp mark. But I've never ridden an old turbo bike (or gp for that matter) so I might not know what I'm talking about
the turbo lag is just like the 1970s kawi H2...... (which is the best sounding engine ever made.... tied with the 900/1200cc triple 2 stroke in kawi's 90 jet skis)
.
and now... kawi did it again, the crazy buggers......
but this time its a supercharger..... so you get a more "smooth" boost and power