The Reformed View on Drinking Alcohol
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- Опубликовано: 29 фев 2024
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I grew up being taught it was a sin to drink. I have actually read the Bible, which most people should do. Now I see that it is indeed not a sin, unless you are drunk. Idk why people feel the need to lie about that to everyone. It’s shocking to me that a lot of Christian’s are taught that it’s a sin.
Man-made rules for man-made traditions. It is legalism.
Yes I think it's wrong to say a Christian doesn't drink. That being said, as a former Catholic I saw much hypocrisy in this church with many Catholics drinking to drunkenness and cussing freely.
John MacArthur has a great study on this topic…
I personally just stick with lemon water. Jesus was not drinking Merlot nor was he drinking Welch grape juice..
Be wise, whatever you do ..
Blessed be Yahweh forever. Amen.
Hey Pastor, I really dig your channel. My name is Mike and I live in Northampton mass. (Where Jonathan Edwards had a church)
Keep the videos coming!. GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. JESUS IS KING!!!
Very well thought out presentation.
I once was a member of a Baptist church that had as a membership vow we would not use alcohol or tobacco. Although one deacon smoked, I kept that vow as long as I was a member.
You may know the old joke about one denomination not “recognizing” another based on doctrinal differences. The punch line being ‘Baptists don’t recognize each other in the liquor store!’
As a now reformed Baptist, I think you have presented the situation brilliantly, brother.
Thank you,
Charlie D.
Was your family in long enough to know when it changed on tobacco?
Tobacco used to be extremely prolific in the South as well as the production, though my family were primitive Baptist so maybe different.
Thats funny, i always love s good baptist joke
@@youngrevival9715 Always take two Baptists fishing. If you take just one he will drink all of your beer. If you take two Baptists with you fishing then you have all the beer to yourself!
@@jdkayak7868 My dad was a Primitive Baptist. If anything they bordered on antinomian. At least the ones around here. So much so they thought there was more than one way to Heaven, such as Muslims. So perhaps not the best example of Baptists.
Very balanced. Thank you!
Your calm, unbiased, objective discussion of this topic is greatly appreciated
Cheers. 😏
Very good video! Good point about the machinery!
Very balanced presentation Pastor. Thank you.
Fair analysis Pastor Matt!
Agree with you 100%😊🙏❤️
Nailed it with a solidly biblical take, as usual. Thanks for this!
The best teaching about alcohol that I have heard. Good job
Thanks!
Thank you for a careful, pastoral exposition of this issue - very helpful.
Great information and wise
Good Biblical info. Thanks!
That was one of and actually the best presentations i have every heard on whether or not a Christian should or should not drink. Well done
Pastor Matt, thanks for this excellent presentation about the important subject of alcohol.
Good discussion Pastor Matt. I always learn something from each of your videos. I stopped consuming alcohol when I got saved, more so for a logistical reason. Work all day, come home , eat dinner, settle in. I usually read the bible, devotionals and watch a few youtube videos. Didn't want to be under the influence during my devotionals. After a few years, it just wasn't a part of my life anymore. My ultimate solution to stopping drinking came by way of a book by Alan Carr called "The Easy Way". Mr. Carr is famous for helping 50 million stop smoking cigarettes and he applied the same principles to drinking. I read through about half the book and never drank again. Powerful stuff.
I appreciate this talk. This has been a divisive issue among my family-in-law. These are nice concise biblical points that may at some time or another help to lower the heat and bring the focus back to the Lord and His creative purposes.
Very informative. Tnx Pastor.
Well done presentation from Scripture and other relative considerations on this topic. And I’m a Southern Baptist in the Deep South these days. Good job. 😀
This was a great video. It reminded me of a video
Mike winger has on alcohol that is really good. As a reformed baptist I don't agree with everything he teaches but his video on alcohol was extremely good and deep and thourough.
🍷🎯Well thought out and balanced. Personally, I stick with grape juice, but hold nothing against the wise and moderate use of alcohol by others. Thanks & Blessings!
🙏📖
What a balanced, thoughtful and, as far as I know, complete, study on this! For me, the last bit - the clarity of mind and (at my age) metabolic reasons to limit alcohol consumption to special occasions prevail. Still, I appreciate hearing in one take all the key references to alcohol in scripture. Thank you!
Let's put it under Romans 14. I am going through Martyn Lloyd-Jones Exposition of Romans 14 now, and it's a fantastic work
With all the inveighing against drinking by many Christians, I've not heard anyone account for Deuteronomy 14:26, in a passage where God is instructing regarding the tithe (Deuteronomy 14:22-29). You're the first I've come across to do so, and I've just subscribed because of that. I do believe that alcohol (wine) is a personal choice, and that like money or sex, isn't evil inherently but can be used for evil reasons or ends. Excess is always bad, ultimately. Those who can't tolerate alcohol or are uncertain of that should stay away from it. Those who don't have a problem shouldn't drink in the presence of those whose understanding or conscience is weak, for their sake (Romans 14:20-23).
I read the so far 58 comments, mostly agreeable, so won't duplicate.
1) I enjoyed the KJV. I have read at least 7 English versions of the Bible, and use quotes from several more. But the good old KJV is still the most COMFORTING!
2) I have done the same study, and reached the same conclusions. However, I had never thought of your category, "INCIDENTAL". Glad to have gained a new idea!
3) I HATE alcohol. I have seen it "steal, kill, and destroy". In John 10:10, Jesus tells who the author of this ruination would be, in contrast to what HE offers!
3a) Therefore, I have chosen, very close to vowed, to use my liberty, and role model, as a Christian, a pastor, NOT to drink alcohol.
3a1) In this, I consciously follow the PRACTISE of the apostle PAUL:
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
--ROMANS 14:21 (KJV)
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Very good, Matthew. Nicely done. I heard nothing wrong.
As Christians we are to live by a higher moral standard than the world. If non believers see us drinking and we are open about following Jesus and our actions lead them to believe we are a bunch of drunks, did we use our liberty in Christ for good or bad? like Paul said all things are lawful but not all things edify or are helpful (1 Cor. 10:23). Is me drinking helping or edifying in some manner? We each must examine ourselves and use the scriptures as a mirror. Are we being selfish in our actions or are we humbling and taking a role of servants? Sometimes we look to the Bible for justification for our actions or permission to do certain things when we should be looking for what "thus saith the Lord?" May the Lord help us all to fight the internal desires to be selfish and give us strength to do his will and not our own. Great content with biblical references! God bless!
This is a great biblical presentation. I like how you touched on some modern day considerations as well like driving a car versus riding on a donkey. Some other questions that may be interesting to think about are: is buying alcohol a good use of money? Would the Bible consider distilled spirits the same as brewed alcohol like beer and wine (since distillation wasn’t invented yet)?
Hey Pastor! Would you ever do a video-tour of your library/study? I think a lot of people would be interested in that!
Thank you for this topic, could you also discuss the topic of smoking from a reformed point of view?
A well balanced, and Scriptural take on the issue. Much better than the unbiblical IFB stance that I hear almost every Sunday.
No one deserves to be within 1 mile of IFB. That would be unbearable for me. People like that destroyed my faith as a kid. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Baptists are very good at making atheists.
Could you please do a video on the reformed view of smoking cigars too? Or would you essentially extend this same argument towards cigars too?
Yes
@@bigtobacco1098 Haha good answer for Big Tobacco
Charles Spurgeon smoked cigars and drank. He is in heaven.
The story on Spurgeon is that a doctor, supposedly told him cigars were good for his health, and that he later quit smoking. I don’t know which is true, but Spurgeon and his salvation are probably not what should define our standard, anyway.
I smoke 2 or 3 a month... my pipe a little more often
Isaiah 25:6 also can be shown in the most positive light!
Proverb 23:32 "... biteth like a serpent, and sting like an adder" is what the boxer Muhammad Ali said he was going to do to his opponent. Eccl. is one of my favorite books.
Pretty sure he said, “move like a butterfly and sting like a bee.” Or something close to that.blessings.
As Christian we are not called by God to seek our own will. Permission to drink is not our purpose, no one enlisted in the army entanglements himself with the affairs of the world, neither should we be looking for opportunity to indulge. Salvation is not about our personal desires, but about the mind of Christ, conversion, transformation, their is no latter tide given for the disciples to seek leisure, we are always about our Father's business, Jesus is our great example. "I came not to do my own will, but the will of Him that sent Him."
We don't need to search the scriptures for relaxation, but to find the will of God, and serve Him only!!
Be blessed, it's not our will but His.
My discussions of this topic with some in the church always ends with their argument that wine wasn't alcoholic back then......... but apparently some of it was.
I have heard that argument too, it does not hold water when you consider the verses referring to Jesus being a wine bibber which would have been a silly accusation where he only drinking grape juice. Likewise the verses referring to new and old wineskins, which would definitely not be applicable with grape juice. I likewise found it interesting when someone suggested once that you go to these regions and tell the historians there that ancient Vineyards in that region were being used to make grape juice. You likely would be laughed out of the room
Yes it obviously was. Without pasteurization any fruit juice immediately begins the process of fermentation.
@@mkshffr4936 It’s a blatant case of man adding to Scripture to fit his own tradition. To be honest, Baptists do this a lot.
Yeah if you even read the verses he shows in this video that is impossible. It was definitely alcoholic. It’s super silly to assume it wasn’t
We attend a Baptist church and the argument goes in the negative passages wine means alcoholic wine and in the positive passages wine means grape juice.
That's nonsense and special pleading, you wouldn't take that approach to anything else in the Bible.
Good video but I’m pretty sure that the alcohol content of the wine in Bible times was a lot lower than it is today. Just something to consider as well. Pretty thorough explanation though.
I heard a man talk about the effects of alcohol on the body and brain, and he believed no one should think period. His talk was not biblically based, just based on health. After viewing the post, most social drinkers said they would quit. It is discouraging to hear a pastor encouraging its use. Anything that can be addictive scares me, even most medical drugs, do apart from my Christian conviction, I would never take a drink of alcohol. Wine does not always mean fermented; it can mean grape juice.
I can see your desire to mean well and be reasonable. My comment would be that grape juice is a modern invention as it’s impossible to not ferment the juice of grapes. The yeast naturally lives on the skin, so to even tread the wine press immediately starts the fermenting process. All wine is alcoholic in nature.
What wasn’t covered was the nature of the substances themselves. Distillation didn’t exist back then. There was no 80 proof whiskey or vodka in view when the scriptures discussed “strong drink.” The fermentation process and alcohol content for “wine” weren’t necessarily the same. The quantities, accessibility and frequency of use then vs now. They probably still don’t rise to a level that would say “no one can ever drink,” but it would likely be instructive about what, how, how often, and how much would be wise or acceptable today.
I see this issue raised a lot, but I've never seen an explanation of why it's seen to be relevant. Let's suppose, for the sake of discussion, that modern American table wines, on average, have a higher alcohol content than the wines that were prevalent in 11th Century BC - 1st Century AD Israel--so what? That would obviously mean that it would take less of it to make a given person drunk, so if drunkenness is an issue (as it is), you shouldn't drink as much of it. OK, well and good. But what does that change? It's no different than today--if it (hypothetically) takes three beers at 12 oz (so, 36 oz) and 5% ABV to get me "drunk" (leaving aside that "drunk" is another word that's notoriously difficult to precisely define), it would take me only 15 oz of wine at 12% ABV to achieve the same result. Or 4.5 oz of 80 proof liquor. Each of these three examples contains the same amount of ethanol.
But if the biblical principles are (1) it isn't inherently a sin to drink alcohol, (2) there are circumstances under which it's wrong or unwise to drink, and (3) under no circumstances may we get drunk--which I believe they are, and I think this is a fair summary of Pastor Matt's conclusion--then how does alcohol content change any of them?
Drinking wine may not be a sin according to God’s word, but as we know there are other implications that should help us to make the decision not to drink such us: 1) Alcohol, wine, is not a nescesity. 2. By drinking alcohol you can be impeded to drive according to the laws of the state. 3. Drinking alcohol can be a bad testimony and a temptation to others that deal with the sin of drunkenness. Thank you. For the video is very good on the topic.
Let each be convinced in his own mind
Alcohol is not a necessity--true enough. But what does that prove? The computer or other device on which you typed this comment is not a necessity. Meat is not a necessity. The vast majority of things we have and consume aren't necessities. There's no biblical standard by which we're only permitted necessities--asceticism isn't a Christian philosophy.
You can be too impaired to drive legally--again, true enough. But in the large majority of cases you aren't, and/or it's irrelevant. As I type this, I'm home for the evening. I don't care in the least about my ability to drive according to the laws of my state, because I have no intention of driving in the next 12 hours at least. There are other reasons I limit my intake, the biblical injunction against drunkenness being very high on the list, but "I won't be legal to drive" isn't even on the radar.
A bad testimony--I don't think so. To the extent it is, it's because so much of the church have been falsely preaching that drinking is a sin for so long.
Temptation to others--a valid point, and to the extent it applies, it does make drinking a sin according to scripture. If I'm with someone I know to have that concern, I'll abstain as I'm required to--but that's the only case where this applies. It emphatically does not apply when the person is "offended" by my drinking--see RC Sproul's excellent sermon on "The Tyranny of the Weaker Brother" for more on this.
What I meant by alcohol is not a necessity is that it can be replaced by grape juice, or a good cup of tea, or other suttable drink.
Regarding the levels of alcohol to be able to drive. I mean that it will be easily to pass the level of legal drinking. It is illegal for you to drive if you have a BAC of:
0.08% or higher if you are over 21 years old.
And that level can be achieved with one bear in most cases.
My point is not that if a Christian drinks is sining, if you want to drink go ahead. But still alcohol is not something that you need to live and you can live without it.
I personally do not desire and see no need for alcohol. God bless
@@estudiaescriturasNo, 0.08% cannot be achieved with one beer "in most cases." In fact, there's really no case in which one "standard" beer (12 oz, 5% ABV) results in 0.08%. Even assuming a 100-lb adult, it takes two standard beers within one hour to reach that level--and no, the charts aren't perfect, but they're remarkably consistent in this. I guess if you hypothesize a 50-lb adult this would be the case, but that's obviously far from the norm. But again, this is a reason not to drink too much *if you're going to be driving.* If not, then it isn't so much of a reason.
You're right, of course, that it isn't something you need to live. Neither is tea, nor juice, nor any other "suitable drink" you might care to mention (you have to drink *something,* but not any particular thing). Neither, for that matter, is pizza, or steak, or salmon. But all are gifts of God for our nourishment and enjoyment.
@@danbrown586 you are right is two
What was Jesus' first miracle? How many gallons? What was the drink offering in the tabernacle? Etc.
Psalm 104.
I love bubly. I was sad to read they are pepsico but what can you do..
I like the heart rate mention, to consider. What pastoral advise can you offer for the sincere believer who would consider drinking in the right manner with the right motive, not being a drinker, but doesn't want to cross a line into intoxication and grieve the Holy Spirit. I think intoxication is key to the whole construct (which you've addressed), but some would argue, "I'm not drunk" yet they ain't exactly sober in speech or appearance. Is it a consumption standard line... Like only (ever) have one glass... For one person, one drink causes a "warm, flush faced tingling" that occurs (obviously they could build a tolerance and not experience the same from that person, in time) Others don't "feel it" until they drink three or four. Now we all can agree upon what drunk looks and sounds like, save the best "functional" alcoholic. So, is there a difference from the Bible perspective, between intoxication characteristics and drunkenness. Is the tingling sensation (from one drink who's not experienced) a sin - even if the person only drank one drink and wasn't slurring words or stumbling, if the tingling comes from a bottle and not the Holy Spirit? Sincerely asking this question; I have no comeback but want to learn how to discern for myself and my Christian family friends.
At what point are we sinfully drunk? There does seem to be an aspect that the effects of alcohol are what’s the blessing and makes glad the heart. So if I can freely get a little buzz, what do you think the limitations are to that?
Many say that getting drunk is a sin, but then that begs the question at what point of inebriation are you "drunk"? I would say that there is a distinction between being inebriated and living a life of drunkenness. If drinking prevents you from worship, causes you to sin, or has been brought up to you by others as a problem, it probably is. If it is something that brings about enjoyment and enhances fellowship then I would discern it as a good thing that can be done to God's glory.
I am Pentecostal. Growing up I heard many sermons condemning the use of alcohol. These days it seems to be 50/50. Fortunately the prohibition seems to be dying. I predict that this will probably be a non-issue pretty soon.
Fahrenheit 451, the temperature at which books burn...
The heart rate thing has nothing to do with propensity to alcoholism. Alcohol is always a central nervous system depressant.
1. I’m wondering what your answer would be to those who bring up the point that there isn’t a clear line of what drunkness is. How would you answer that.
2. I think, especially in the western culture, people cling to these arguments (which are solid) to defend their abuse or addiction.
I would say that drunkenness is a lifestyle, not an event.
This is very much an American discussion. In Europe christians just have wine and beer when having their meals. The wives of Martin Luther and Count Zinzendorf brewed beer. The first building the pilgrims built when they reached America was a brewery and not a church building. Of course alcohol consumption must be done in moderation. Greetings from a German brother
"Presbyterians have a reputation of drinking a little bit more freely than baptistic friends etc."
Sounds very Scottish 😂
Those that try to find correspondence between wine in the Bible and modern consumption of alcohol are fishing in empty waters.
Yes, it is a sin to drink alcohol.
When the references are positive is this new wine? When negative old wine? It’s not like there was soda in those days. It should be well noted the the negatives obviously refer to a high alcohol content. The worst things that most people do in their lives they do under the influence.
I have a similar problem with ice cream. 😁
🍦
It’s called spirits for a reason
Is gluttony ever addressed in a church?
Only when it’s convenient with things like alcohol. The same people that condemn alcohol have no problem buying 4 Big Macs and a 20 piece McNugget.
It should be …
Being a glutton is a definite sign that one is walking in the flesh.
Don't forget water drunk 2000yrs ago was dodgy, added wine helped to kill bad bacteria
What about 1 Corinthians 8:13 and Romans 14:21. It seems Paul would totally abstain as. long as the world stands. Since there are weak brothers and sisters all around us how can we indulge in alcohol at all. Wouldn't it be the loving thing to do for the sake those around us to abstain seeing we don't know who is weak and who isn't. Why take the chance. A brother or sister may not see you drink, but if they simply here that you do it could as Paul says in 1 Cor. 8:10, "Embolden" the conscience of the weaker brother, vs 11 "And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died."
Pastor Matt, I think there's a biblical case for the conscience here that you overlooked, and that's Romans 14:14, and more directly in 14:23. If we take as given (which I do, and it seems you do) that it is not inherently sinful to drink, it's nonetheless sinful for me to do so if I believe it is. We're bound both by scripture and by our consciences--whichever is more restrictive.
What more do we need but that Jesus in the Lord's supper, a Seder meal, blessed the cup of wine, the 3rd, I think, drank it and commanded us to do the same?
Further He said "I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom." You can hardly get more positive than that. If Christians want to abstain from alcohol for various reasons, fine, but if they say it's a sin to drink wine, they're contradicting their Lord and Saviour!
Please note what Jesus called it. "FRUIT OF THE VINE". He left it open to us to choose wine OR grape juice.
And BTW, some scholars say they did have a grape juice concentrate in those days. I do not know a primary source on that, however.
But they did normally mix wine with water. It was not full strength booze!
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Good tip at 24:09 about checking heart rate.
If people don't want to drink that's fine accept when it comes to the Lord's supper the use of wine is required.
It is not, the important element is the fruit of the vine. Being acohol or juice is circumstancial.
I completely agree. Please don’t change the Lord’s Supper to fit your man-made rules.
I just stopped to wonder…
If Timothy had been adamantly avoiding wine for his frequent ailments, then was grape juice rather than wine being served at the Lord’s Supper?
I don’t recall that Timothy *avoided* wine ….
Then why did Paul tell him to drink a little wine?
Martin Luther...a German
Do you realise that in the reformed view God makes you drink.. Come on guys
There is an issue in Young Reformed and Trad Cath with excessive drinking at conferences.
While I agree that moderation in food and drink is the Biblical mandate , I do not see any reason for any religious body to promote or wink at alcohol in our culture.
I just don’t drink because it tastes like 💩
None of you tead your bibles. The biblical view is to abstain from poison...
He just went through the Bible. Are you trying to be obstinate?
Question:... why do liquor stores have back doors?
Answer.... for Baptist 😅😅😅😅
This video could have been about 5 minutes long. Too much bla bla bla.
No one should be getting drunk or forcing booze down someone else's throat. This is evil.
And I haven't seen anyone advocating that.
Good to see you didn't watch the video but felt the need to comment anyways.
Drivel... I've never seen any of that nor did the video condone it... grow up
I would agree with the other replies, it's obvious you did not watch the video; therefore, it was inappropriate for you to comment, especially to refer to the video our brother presented as evil as he simply exegeted scripture!
Jesus drank wine, was that evil? Unless of course you’re one of those people that thinks it was grape juice. In that case I’d ask how they had access to fresh grapes year round?
Wow. I’ve followed you a long time and would never guess you took this position. If you are human you have a propensity to become a drunk. I’m a retired state trooper of over 30 years and have dealt with suspect side and the victim side on a grand scale. I have never met some one that “responsibly “ drinks. You just have no experience with dealing with the hurt and destruction that comes from alcohol. Fermentation is a degradation process. Why would CHRIST even replicate that? There is a Japan proverb”man takes the first drink drink takes the drink drink takes the man”. That sir comes from a heathern society CHRIST did all things good and that does not include alcohol. The CHRIST I follow did not sit around social gatherings high on ethanol laughing and acting foolish. You need to study this further. I have followed you from the beginning but will pray about what is next Highly disagree with you
Western societies tend to view alcohol as something to get you drunk, other cultures don't have this same problem. Check out how France, Italy, Israel etc drink with meals but don't get drunk.
Also we could argue McDonald's is more destructive and ruins more lives today, but few people would claim it's also inheritantly sinful.
Sorry my friend but you are dead wrong. I have known many who are responsible in their drinking. It is very presumptuous of you to assume that Pastor Matt has no experience with this. As an active minister I would say that it is highly likely that he does have experience.
In the final analysis his exegesis is right on the money.
Sex, money, and worship are also highly destructive when used outside of their God ordained purpose. Yet when used wisely and in accordance with the word of God they bring glory to him.
With respect, nothing in your post actually refuted any of the textual arguments he presented, and your opinions seem to be driven more by emotion than sound interpretation of the Bible. Obviously with your background the reason you view alcohol negatively is understandable, but we have to be careful not to let our own personal experiences affect the interpretation of Scripture.
Can you offer any counter exegesis on the specific passages he presented that speak favorably towards alcohol? Why were his interpretations wrong?
Also, I would be very careful about accusing a minister like Matt of having "no experience" helping people whose lives have been destroyed by alcohol. As a pastor myself, I can assure you that this is a common area of concern and pastoral care in most churches.
I have never met any police that use authority without becoming drunk on authority