I have known Christians who proudly kept themselves pure by completely avoiding such evils as dancing, card playing, and drinking even a drop of alcohol. However, when it came to matters such as justice and mercy and loving their neighbors as themselves, there was little evidence of that.
Yes because they’re checking boxes. I was that person. I could keep all the rules but I had no joy or peace and was miserable until I bowed the knee and rested in HIM. I checked boxes but my intimacy wasn’t there at all. When you’re intimate with God and live in His presence you won’t want to do anything to quench the Spirit not to show you can keep rules but as an outflow of your love for Him. Religious Christians put the cart before the horse.
So well put. It's not about dancing, it's about what kind of dancing/place/music. Card playing? It depends on what type of card playing. Alcohol? It's about what kind and how much. As a retired pastor/chaplain, my wife and I choose the type of dance, place, and music. It's the same with cards: Crazy 8s, Hearts, Fish (with our grandkids), and other more advanced games are mind stimulating. A quiet evening dinner at a Mexican eatery isn't complete without having a Margarita to share with my wife of 39-years. The hypocrites say, "I tithe, fast, pray unlike that piece of scum in the corner!" Christians who know they are saved by God's grace alone, not by works, are often the most loving, giving, and caring of their fellow neighbors. 'nough said.
Not all of today's dancing is "dirty dancing." And I don't. Nor do I have much alcohol in this world. But the first miracle Jesus performed was turning water into wine. The thing is: Consider anything and everything that leads you away from Jesus is not something we want to do. We should ALWAYS be moving toward Jesus, not away.
"water into wine"... 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 yea, great fairy tale story.. and good people still believe the bollocks... amazing.... ever seen the recipe.. 🤣🤣🤣 also.. who is this woke-jesoz-bloke ?
Our Sermon today was about this from Luke 11-37:54... JESUS said to the Pharisees " Woe to You, you Hypocrites! You clean the OUTSIDE of the Cup but on the Inside, meaning in your Heart, you are filled with wickness and Ugliness... basically forgetting Justice and Mercy and Love!!!! REPENT and turn your Heart over to JESUS and stop obsessing about outward appearances and dancing etc.
00:13 🕺 Old Testament mentions dancing before the Lord for joy, but modern-day dances promoting sexual stimulation are discouraged in Christianity. 03:24 🃏 Playing cards isn't inherently wrong, but avoid if it bothers you or affects your testimony. Cultural context and community standards matter in evaluating appropriateness. 04:21 🍷 The Bible acknowledges wine, historically mixed with water, seen as a beverage and medicine. Drinking unmixed wine was viewed negatively. 07:04 💧 Ancient practice of mixing wine with water was seen as a safer way to purify water. The Bible encourages moderation in consumption, distinguishing between wine and strong drink.
drinking in "moderation" means NOT DRINKING ALCOHOL AT ALL. alcohol causes brain damage (DUH) and early onset dementia AT ANY AMOUNT. we don't need wine for water purification anymore, it's a thing of history. don't be stupid, leave it in the past. drink a nice glass of purified water, and try some of that eternal water too.
Hi Paddy! If the water was not that clean, wine would be mixed in to purify it. But, in biblical times, if the water was good, wine was served. On Pentecost, when the believers were being called drunks, they didn't say, "We only drink a bit of wine with water!" or "We're Christians! We don't drink wine!" Rather, they said it wasn't the right time to drink for personal (private) enjoyment. If Jesus made it and drank it, who am I to say he sinned???
@@markwhite116 There is no such thing as "drinking alcohol in moderation". Moderation is not even laying a finger on it and protecting your loved ones from it.
"Then you may spend the money on anything you desire: cattle, sheep, *wine, strong drink, or anything you wish.* You are to feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice with your household." ~ Deuteronomy 14:26 God never forbids us from drinking the best wine, or even strong drink. He even permits it during our feasts as we rejoice and give thanks... *HOWEVER,* we are to do so sparingly, and in moderation. Avoiding drunkenness, and making sure we do not cast stumbling blocks before others.
Exactly the verse I was thinking about, myself. Love MacArthur, but he often has a bad habit of putting his own theology into the Text of Scripture. Still an amazing expositor! But a lot of it commentary suffers from the few points where he (Probably unintentionally) forces his own theology onto the Text. But we all have our faults, and even in this, I think MacArthur is one of the best Pastors of our day.
@@ThePaulKM SO you make your theology from one verse only and not the whole concil of God. WHat about other verses when God forbids it ,like the case he used with Aron.
@@pjetri24 There are other verses in Scripture which condemn drunkenness, but I am not aware of any passage of Scripture which explicitly forbids the drinking of wine in general. If you are aware of such passage/verse, please bring it to light. I do not pick and choose what verses of Scripture I am to obey, and asserting the claim that I am doing such with absolutely no evidence to point to the fact is not only disingenuous, but very much unlike Christ, indeed. I suggest you consider your speech more carefully before making baseless accusations next time.
@@ThePaulKM I am sorry .My comment was directed to @beowulf154.My mistake ..I think is a matter of caution.THere are a lot of doctrines that we may have not have explicit verses for.First of all the wine we use today is not the same . Second : If God told the priests to not drink bcs they would pervert the judment why should we. Proverbs 31:4 “It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:”
Was invited to gather with a couple guys from my church last night. I thought it was going to be with guys my own age (40's/50's). But had guys in their twenties and early thirties, only a few guys from the church a few others from somewhere else. The conversations were not sinful, but also not for encouraging, they were drinking beer and hard liquor, and smoking cigars. Then started playing poker. Not my idea of a good time! Aside from playing poker, the smoking and drinking bothered me. Especially coming home and smelling like smoke. I think this has to do with this younger generation that views Christian liberty very loosely.
That sounds like a great time. John MacArthur is a modern day Pharisee. He condemns things that aren’t even in scripture and push holidays and traditions of men like Christmas Easter and “the lords day “ being Sunday. He’s arrogant and prideful. If he does not like it he tried to make it a sin. David danced naked. Jesus made wine and there is nothing in the Bible about tobacco use anywhere. No one says you have to dance drink smoke play poker use tobacco eat junk food or whatever. If you don’t want to don’t do it but why care if someone else does it. Yes. Modern day Pharisee
Did you all watch a different video? Guys, when the comment section contains nothing more than people fighting for their right to party, its concerning. It’s concerning because clearly we live in our modern day Roman Empire where the good times have kicked up several notches. Why is it wrong to be extra careful? You go around calling people Pharisees because you don’t like people telling you to be careful? Please be careful. Peace to you.
Houston…. 100 a modern day Pharisees I not anyone else in here are advocating for drunken orgies pagan idle worship sacrificing kids or pagan idle worship. Drinking whiskey smoking cigars and playing poker is a great time to bond and build your relationships. Do you have to , No. If you don’t want to don’t do it. I don’t know anyone who cares if you don’t. But a lot of people sure want to be in others business about enjoying the things God has given them. When MacArthur can’t back himself with scripture he mocks things. How many forms of dancing are there ? Not all modern dancing is sexual and twerking. If anything. Celebrating Christmas and Easter are more pagan that drinking whiskey smoking cigars and playing poker. MacArthur creates Christian rules that are not in the Bible. That don’t violate Gods laws. That’s exactly what the Pharisees did. You should be careful if that’s what you want. But make sure you don’t. Eat McDonald’s that can lead to obesity. Drive your car , Every time you leave your house you take the risk of injuring yourself or others. Especially since 40000 people die a year in car crashes and God did not say it was ok to drive a car. Definitely don’t watch any sports. Professional sports is pure vanity of highly paid womanizing play boys why as a “Christian” would you support such a thing. And don’t even think about getting a marriage license in todays modern society that marries same s x marriages. How as a Christian can you support a system that contradicts the Bible and goes against “Christian” values. See I can play the Christian hypocrisy game and act like a Pharisee also. The Bible states what is a violation of Gods law. It’s not any of these things MacArthur condemns in this video. He himself plays God by doing this. If God does not care enough to list it as a violation of his commands. Neither should we.
My parents were ballroom dancers. Judaism. has dancing and it can be drunken and sexual. I dont believe this has much connection with Jesus way of life Herodias daughter caused lust from her step father and David allowed his clothing to fall off It was not commendable. The Celts danced in order to make the warriors aggressive Africans do the same thing. The association with houses.and women of ill repute was all.round Jazz and dance was a mode of rebellion from the flappers onward I think its a licence for impurity even in services..but with the flood of modern worship songs inappropriate dancing has come in the back door Why do the gospel.choirs never keep still?
MacArthur is simply wrong about wine mixed with water. The Greeks always mixed wine with water. But when they refer to barbarians taking wine unmixed, they are not simply referring to the Scythians, but to basically everyone else, including the Jews. To be a barbarians is to speak "barbarbar," which is what every other language sounded like to the Greeks. The Jews drank wine unmixed. The custom of mixing wine with water spread from the Greeks to the Jews only after the Hellenization of the Jews (post Alexander the Great). The Old Testament references to wine as "making glad the heart of man" is a reference to straight wine. It's great. And Baptists should drink it in moderation.
Genesis 19:33 says " So they made their father drink wine that night. And the first born went in lay with her father. He did not know when she lay or when she arose." It is therefore clear that the wine referred to in the Bible was intoxicating and not just strong drink as is suggested in this discussion.
Um, the Genesis text and incident happened in the earliest of times, and I would say has very little bearing on the information presented by MacArthur, especially within a NT context. And it's quite possible, I would say quite likely, Noah's sons could have diluted the wine, as was the practice, but didn't. It's all very interesting, that's for sure.
All the giants of our faith made poor choices when controlled by their fleshly desires. Alcohol reduces your inhibitions. Poor choices have consequences. The descendants of this unholy union were the Moabites and the Ammonites which were the enemies of Israel throughout the Bible. God showed his grace when He redeemed Ruth, a Moabite woman, to become the ancestor of King David and Jesus.
It is clear Noah was a righteous man. It is also clear he had too much to drink and became intoxicated, which was out of sync with his normal character. He wasn't at a bar, a disco, at some social event, or stammering like a fool down some dark alley, etc. He got drunk in his own house/tent, and then fell asleep, after which his body was exposed. His son, Ham, encountering the situation, then told his brothers all about it, who then took a blanket and respectfully backed into his father's tent and covered him up. We aren't given all the details, but it is clear that Ham was disrespectful toward his father in some serious manner, warranting the curse that was pronounced upon him. The NT declaration that "no drunkard will enter the kingdom" is totally non-applicable to this event. The point of this NT text is not to say that no legitimate believer could ever get drunk, or that one's salvation would be lost if he got drunk, but rather that people who live sinful lives and are governed by the fallen ways and principles of this corrupt world, are not regenerated individuals, etc. And anyone who lives according to the pattern and practice of this fallen world must not deceive himself into thinking he is bound for eternal glory. The pattern of his life and thinking point to an altogether different conclusion.
To be honest, just because wine was mixed with water. It was probably because it tasted so bad. I’m sure they just drank more. Why would anyone think just because it’s a weaker drink people wouldn’t continue to consume it?
Just because David danced , didn’t mean it was necessarily kosher…we should be silent where the Bible is silent and be led by the spirit. If we live by the letter of the law, the letter kills, the spirit gives life…use Jesus as our guide - he appeared to have numerous contradictions by his words and actions, yet was infinitely wise and perfectly guided by the spirit.
Church dancing usually isn’t. But every prom in the USA is almost inevitably inviting sexual desires to come out. I never understood why so many Christians condone proms
@@jondeik 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?
@@CRHjr Matthew 7:1-5 NKJV “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? I’m not arguing, but mine was a verse too
Deuteronomy 14: 24And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: 25Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: 26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
So keep yourself from the one you deem inappropriate! We were all in chains at one time. Us being elders couldn't do those moves anymore if we wanted to. But we can love them so hard with a fathers love they may dance like David. I will follow the teachings with all my heart, soul and mind! I will pray day and night for wisdom and forgiveness should my choice be wrong. One word to all that know and can hear is "stones". The greatest of these is love.
If drinking alcohol at all was inherently evil, why would Jesus choose turning huge vats of water into wine as his first public miracle?... At a wedding... Where there was absolutely dancing
In that time, it was safer to drink water than water due to the limitations in storing water in a sanitary way. The Bible does not say that drinking wine is wrong, rather drinking to reach drunkenness.
Probably because wine was equated to grape juice that wasn't fermented yet. You can figure that out by when they were telling people to drink wine for stomach issues. I don't believe in alcoholic beverage would help you with stomach issues. But they did use unfermented grape juice aka wine for stomach issues.
The commentary on WINE is interesting and brings to mind Paul's instructions to Timothy: 1 Timothy 5:23 "No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments". This backs up the idea that the water was not always pure and caused illnesses and so the wine mixture was the best solution.
Is this some kind of yoke? Stand fast therefore in the liberty, wherefore Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with a yoke of bondage. I think I'll chew on that for a while.
Let's get one thing straight. The Israelites added wine to their water to kill any germs (they didn't know why it worked, but they did that). So stop twisting that to say that they always drank diluted wine. When Jesus changed water into wine at the wedding in Cana (John chapter 2), He made between 120 and180 gallons! While drunkenness is a sin, drinking wine is not. In fact, wine is listed with the blessings God makes in Psalm 104:15, "And wine that makes glad the heart of man." Jesus drank wine and was called a "winebibber" by the Pharisees (Luke 7:34). Don't be like the Pharisees.
1) I don't think the Israelites knew about germs. 2) I don't believe wine diluted with water can kill germs. 3) Wine back then was not as strong as today because the sugar content of fruit was much less than it is today. 4) If they mixed water with wine, perhaps it was to have a nice-flavored drink without getting drunk. Anyway, this has not much to do with your wonderful post. Keep it up.
A *calvinist* approaching a person to preach *his* “gospel”: "Hi! I have good news for you! I don't know if God loves you, the most probable thing is that He hates you. I also don't know if He died for you in the cross, only a very few were chosen… But Listen!" Sad but true! This is the false gospel that is being preached in many churches. We need urgently to bring back the *powerful, simple* and *true gospel* summarized in *John 3:16.* If God says that he died for everyone, *it means that He died for everyone:* *Isaiah 53:6* ; *John 1:29* ; *John 3:16,17* ; *John 4:42* ; *2 Corinthians 5:14,15* ; *Romans 5:18* ; *1 Timothy 2:6* ; *1 Timothy 4:10,11* ; *1 John 2:2* ; *John 12:47* ; *1 John 4:14* ; *Hebrews 2:9* …etc Let's be very careful, let's not be found liars.
One of the world's best exercise is dancing. A great way to get together with others is by playing games that generate intelligence by thinking. Also wine is very good for the heart.So what is wrong here? Self control begins within the family.
Mr. Morrison as you probably already know that some people have a problem with drinking alcoholic beverages. The scientific community believes that anywhere from 10-15% of the human population may have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism. So if you take a single harmless drink it can actually turn out to be a green light for someone else to go ahead and "stumble" into a lifelong addiction. Please don't be the initial cause of your neighbor falling into this kind of Slavery.
Drinking alcohol is not good for the heart. In the study you're referencing, the only people who experienced boosts in heart health markers were those who drank less than they normally did in their regular lives for the study.
With great respect to the pastor: I can say with 100% certainty that not all dance moves are designed to stimulate sexual desire. The overwhelming majority have nothing to do with it actually.
I sow dance with my wife all the time. It’s a sweet time. I danced with my mom at my wedding… it was a special moment. The sweeping statements made by j Mac here don’t cover the full subject. Context and intent are important. Legalism isn’t impressive. Telling me my dance with my mom was sinful is ridiculous. Careful of legalism that fulfill self-righteousness rather than holiness.
@@deborahparrish2201 you’re proving my point. He didn’t cover the full subject… and as a believer and someone who really respects Pastor John I wanted to give a thought in the conversation that gives a little context. Left just to the sound bite one might thing all dancing (outside of joyfully worshipping the Lord) is wrong, and that’s not true. Nor do I think that was his point. Again, just adding some context to the conversation… you’re welcome
Instead of making someone stumble. Why not explain what the Lord has told us. A Christian is not forbidden from drinking and or gambling. But these things should not control us. A genuine believer can stumble. But not fall away. If they do. They will definitely come back.
@@saxmanjpr5092 Is your point that they should also preach against gluttony? I agree. If your point is they shouldn't preach against drunkenness or gambling, I strongly disagree.
@@tomforsythe7024 Drunkeness is different than having an occasional brewski! And the last church I went to met inside of a BAR! Read the scriptures: Jesus turned water INTO wine and when the multitudes ran out, he made MORE!!! By YOUR standards, if you used any critical thinking, Jesus must have been a stumbling block! Nothing wrong with gambling either IF you know your limitless and BUDGET. You know, The Lord sent me a female missionary to help me in my life that I met in Las Vegas a few years ago. I was DESPERATE for a ladies help since I never knew my mother , so the Lord sent me a female missionary from EUROPE since the America church flat out refused to help me and only shoved me into mens groups against my will.
It is clear that you are emotionally upset, and just lashing out. Drunkenness, gambling, and gluttony are all sins. That's not being judgment, it's what God's Word clearly says.@@saxmanjpr5092
These responses are profitable for those that are in love with Jesus and want to please Him. For those that don't care about Jesus or misunderstand what being a Jesus disciple is and therefore think by obeying you will get any spiritual benefit, these responses will appear oppression and burden. I didn't get married because I wanted to do dishes but instead I do dishes because I love my wife and I'm glad God poured infinite mercy on me so today I have a wife and a house and a family and dishes to do! The very reason why dancing and music and fun and joy exist is because ALL of those things are part of Gods existence (even before man was created) and He decided to share that with us. Wine will be in heaven for Jesus said He will drink it with His bride in the presence of the Father BUT Jesus also shared with us Wisdom (when we ask) and His Word and expect us to use them. I like wine and will be mixing it with water from this point on....
Canterbury Cathedral allowed a secular pop concert people danced and alcohol was sold This is actually against church law. In.my school..first on the list of banned objects smoking materials and playing cards Seniors began playing bridge and flouted this.
_14 _*_David danced before the Lord with all his might,_*_ wearing a priestly garment. 15 So David and all the people of Israel brought up the Ark of the Lord with shouts of joy and the blowing of rams’ horns_ (2 Sam 6) And nothing in scripture condemned David. His dancing was a form of liturgical worship. One shouldn't add to scripture that which is not there.
Nothing in the scripture approved of it either. There is a difference between describing something or prescribing something. Also we are followers of the new testament worship, not in a place or in flesh, but in spirit and truth. No where in the new testament do we see dancing as approved forms of spiritual worship...not a single place...yes the healed sick man is not counted as a form of approved worship, it doesn't say peter and John jumped around with him. He just got healed after being paralyzed for such a long time, it's forgiven for him. But as a form of worship we see, singing, praying, and a life given to christ. Thanks Giving with your words, and good deeds as a form of worship by showing that you abide by the teaching of christ. That is true worship. Not moving around like you are possessed.
@@ichernichenko "that is -true- worship. " A great video by Joe Heschmeyer on what is true worship, and not. ruclips.net/video/lg4S1VYac-Y/видео.htmlsi=2iKddhE_l4tladr9 Here's what the Second Council of Nicea said in 787 ad on 2 Sam 6 : *_The children of Israel revered the tabernacle of witness with a suitable honour (II Sam. vi. 13), and yet in no respect sinned nor set at naught this precept, but rather the more glorified God._* "Nothing in the scripture approved of it either. " Note, it's harming text to believe that doing so was offensive to God. What makes you think your interpretation of scripture is better than an ecumenical Church Council 1200+ years ago??
First of all JESUS died for the law. We are no longer under it. We are to live by grace and love and obedience. We all aree going to sin. their is a big difference in sin and living in sin.
The pastor always teach against legalism, but now he is teaching pro-legalism. It is not what you do or eat, but what comes from within your heart that matters. Pharisees tried to behave good before everyone but they had problems from their hearts. Human efforts can never fulfill God's desire unless they are filled with the Spirit of His Son. Those who are Spirit-filled do not need to be taught how to behave because they follow the Spirit.
@@kb12689 and THE BIB E says that David danced before the Lord and those that complained, God KILLED THEM! THE BIBLE also says that Jesu drank wine, which IS a low content alcoholic beverage! So, by YOUR STANDARDS, in ignoring hat passage, Jesus must have been...A SINNER! BTW, "Gods word." Which denominational interpreted is the REAL truth? ;)
David danced before the Lord Drink a little wine for thy stomachs sake I myself have a small portion of guiness each day full of iron JESUS turned the water into wine Card playing is ok if no money Involved!
A distant cousin of mine had a Dad who was a minister who preached no cards & dancing so in rebellion we would sneak around and play “Go Fish” card games as kids.😂😂😂
@@BQ900 Wine is wine. The thing is, it ripes and the alcohol grows. Then it can barely count as new wine anymore😎 Also, I know of no preacher who says cards themselves were a sin aside from poker
Calvanists don't believe in dancing - they dont even dance before the Lord - so what they're saying is don't use a computer because other people use it for sinfull acts - tell me has John Macarthur ever danced before the Lord or with his wife? Hyper critical - sorry to say but calvanists as a rule critisises.....that is all they do..all day long - please your relationship is directly with the Lord and not through John Macarthur - do a study of Arminianism and Calvinism - on your own
I guarantee the Israelites had folk dancing. Every culture does! Sure, avoiding sexualized dancing is very clear, but I see no problem with dancing in general- ballet, ballroom, swing….
Think of the prohibitions that he places on people, all based on self control, which the Bible addresses. So many people “interpret” their own beliefs into the Gospel. Every time I hear someone pontificating about something they perceive in the Bible, I go to Revelation 22:18-19. I am 100% confident the our Father who art in Heaven can clearly convey His message to His children through His Word.
Interesting, the keto diet and carnivore diet both recommend no alcohol at all because it is high in carbohydrates (sugar) and spikes your blood sugar. These diets and others want to promote health and it seems alcohol isn’t deemed healthy, therefore, unnecessary!!!
@@saxmanjpr5092The wine in biblical times was generally mixed with water. Today, there are wine spritzers, etc. The biblical admonition is not to get drunk - ie, be out of control with your behavior.
@@karenschmidt965 Yeah, I know that but if I were to have a relaxing beer at the church summer pool party, do you think that the pastor would tolerate that? So what! - Regarding todays drinks. its called, "personal responsibility" and "knowing your limits!" It s not different than me knowing my limits on soda pop and drinking too much of hot kind of "bubbly" makes my kidneys hurt. Seeing my pastor drinking a cola from the pulpit could be a stumbling block for me too. According to the "rules," shouldn't he know better? BTW, you said, "generally," so what about the other drinks? I bet Jesus didn't leave a drop of water in the jugs when he turned the water into wine!
I'm sorry but 20 to 1 wine.. Is really water with wine flavoring 😅. Personally I don't drink because it's a problem for me.. but even strong wine can be drunk in moderation.. and not to get drunk.
there are many types of dancing, they are not all modern day, how can anyone say they are all wrong. I suppose there was no dancing at the wedding at Cana.
Its funny how guys like this claim to be so scriptural and yet they preach from their opinions. Of course MacArthur preaches against the prosperity doctrine and yet he is worth 15 million, so he is not only marginally scriptural but a hypocrite as well.
@@glenw-xm5zf Loaded and hoaerding...your going to have to make that distinction. Even though I do think it is a sin to hoard money and thus "be loaded." That isn't my issue. My issue is MacArthur and all his buddies calling out proseprity teachers for "being loaded" and lo and behold he is loaded himself, which is hypocrisy...beware of the leven of the Pharasee and Sadducee....And money isnt their only trait.
Having read some of the responses to this thread just on dancing, but you know how perverse people are in their prioritizing of situational comfort over obedience to the word of God. God gave us dance, he didn't give us perversion with our dancing - defining and contrasting the difference, is not legalism, it's clarity... To see it any other way, has revealed your stronghold. We've got a lot of coffee house Christians on this thread that need to go visit John MacArthur's Church for a while... I did 35 plus years ago when I first came to California, before there was even a Master's College. Clear biblical exposition, done in a winsome what authoritative manner. He lets the word speak for itself - Jack Hibbs, and Greg Laurie... so he's a lot more emotional about it, pastor Francis chan, who baptized me as well. Some of you coffee house Christians over here need to make some decisions
He equates "modern" dancing with sexy dancing or partner dancing, but then goes on to acknowledge that ancient people danced sexually as well. At the same time he doesn't seem aware of any of the dozens and dozens, perhaps hundreds, of traditional & modern dance styles which are completely un-sexual. What a disjointed and ignorant train of thought! I expected something much more rational and biblically founded from such a well-respected pastor.
Its how you dance Where you dance David dance on to the Lord As for drinking The Bible speaks more against drinking then for drinking I'll give you 1 Proverbs 20:1
So do you want to say guys that Jesus gave more than half a ton of Alcohol to people to drink in John 2? Let's be wise and examine carefully what the Bible says
Do you not believe God's word? YES IS WAS A WINE IT WAS ALCOHOL. IF YOU WERE A DRUNK OR A WEEKEND DRUNK LIKE I WAS YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE HOST MEANT WHEN HE SAID THEY USUALLY SERVE THE BEST WINE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PARTY THEN THE CHEAP JUNK AFTER EVERYONE IS DRUNK AND IT ALL TASTES THE SAME
Didn’t Jesus go to a wedding? He turned water into wine, right? There must have been dancing there. Though I agree one must be modest and not offend. I enjoy dancing w my wife and enjoyed celebrating my nieces quinceañera w my sons and extended family. God, will forgive our family
But I see how you're inserting your view of what dancing is like I saw in the comments if it ain't sexual I don't see nothing wrong with it dancing could be an expression of the how many people do it in different ways not by the way you say because you want the Bible to be interpreted how you feel. I think it's preachers like this that push a lot of people away from being Christians.
Can't we just move to music without it having to be about God or sex? Sometimes people like to do this weird thing called enjoying life. I am not sure that you have ever heard of it before.
Gospel of the legalist: Thou shalt not smile, laugh,make someone laugh, and most of all, Don't be happy when you can worry. I stay away from those joy killers.
I dance once a year at my hubbys company christmas party, not sxl at all, i play cards ie crazy eights with the hubby and fish etc simple games with the kids, nothing else, no gambling etc. I DONT drink alcohol as im holistic and it adds nothing to my health and certainly nothing to my tennis performance regime, why pay for expensive poison, whole idea makes no sense to me.
@jm what you said about cards is the same for dancing, surely. You can’t apply what pagans do with something across the board to Christians as immoral or unacceptable, that’s nonsense.
As for dancing in church , some is just a bunch of flesh. All they're doing is bringing their old disco days to the church. There's a whole bunch foolishness going on these days.
Theres something about cards. He comes with riches of diamond realms and loves with the heart of God but man came for Him armed with clubs and killed and dug His grave. There seems to be some kind of connection between playing cards and disrepect for Jesus..the Devils Picture Book Conversely the song Deck of Cards is a criminal.record. is there any idea who wrote it or who was the stupid soldier?
Married couples can dance together and have a good that isn't the kid dance modestly in front of and dance they are the way they want in private with one another
I’m sorry but, by listening to my brothers and sisters laughing as you speak about dancing in a dark room, with touching and listening to a song with promiscuous words tells me that they are not even ready for this discussion at all. Serious discussions such as this to me, require no giggling at all. We need to raise a generation who cares. It’s really pathetic the normalcy today. What ever happened to the way the people acting in the 1960’s. At least there was clothing on the dance floors.
All good with this, imo.. but I wish someone of his stature and respectability would not reference Christianity Today, (4:24) which, although founded by Billy Graham, has forever now been a very liberal source that is uninterested in true, biblical Christianity, as it relates to culture, politics etc. CT is a friend to the Christian hating Left. Franklin Graham said his father would be embarrassed by what Christianity Today has become.
Drinking is not inherently sin. Getting drunk is. As for dancing, David danced naked and unashamed. Now, should we dance naked? Probably not, but it's obvious that it pleases the Lord to see his people dance out of the joy they feel from Him. Does that mean twerking or lap dancing? Unless it's for your spouse, don't do it. As for playing cards, as long as you don't gamble you are fine. There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing cards in and of themselves, so unless there's a gambling addiction, cards are ok. John is dancing with legalism and always has. Why people love living in that kind of bondage, I will never understand.
@@Stangy04 my bad, he said he was willing to be naked and unashamed when Michal rebuked him. And Psalms 149 also states that we should dance as a part of praising him. The Bible is clear: dancing before the Lord pleases Him. John MacArthur doesn't listen to all of scripture, just the parts that make him feel comfortable. I don't go so far as to call him a heretic, although he should step down, since his interpretation of rules for pastors has been violated. (His son defrauded millions from people).
Um, the crazy antics I see going on in some charismatic churches, with people jumping and dancing all around, while music is playing for 30 minutes straight, is nothing short of foolishness and self-worship. This behavior cannot be condoned by an act of joyous expression on the part of David. @@markwhite116
How would you figure that avoiding any sort of dancing, wine, or cards makes you appear holy? It doesn't. Expressions of joy, drinks, and games aren't unholy. Your intent makes them good or bad, I'd think.
It's NOT the "Christian stance" that I'm interested in. It's the BIBLE "stance" that matters to me. DAVID danced in victory in the streets, and was despised by his wife Mikal for it. Cards are just a game. Wine was the common drink in Bible times...not grape juice which requires refrigeration.
Not only are you adding things that are not there, but you are making these things the focus of what a Christian life should look like. For example, I wonder how often McArthur and others like him preach on John 13:35 -- "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Jesus didn't say everyone will know that you are my disciples because you don't drink alcohol, dance, or play cards. How often do any of these legalists preach on Isaiah 58:9-10 -- "If you do away with the yoke of oppression, with the pointing finger and malicious talk, and if you spend yourselves on behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday?" I would guess never.
No...he added nothing. Beyond a little historical education. Relax. Drink your wine, play your games, and cut a rug when you feel the urge. It won't hurt you.
Shane, I'm still waiting for your apology claiming I said something about bragging that I was drunk...that I DIDN'T say or experience in my personal life. You flat out lied, fess up.
Shane, you can call me a "Dude" if you were in combat (Vietnam) with me. Otherwise, you are being disrespectful of your elders. Also, just who is bragging about being drunk??? That wasn't found in any of my posts.
Yes,Macartur is a false teaching Calvinist. Yet he is RIGHT on this subject. Almost every false teacher teaches SOME truth! That's why God's Word,the Bible,teaches us that we must RIGHTLY divide God's Word.This deceives so many people! Richard from Crimson Tide Country
brother John is a born again Christian who subscribes to a specific Calvinist Christian worldview. Every born again believer is a born again Christian.
Then, Spurgeon, John Bunyan, John Newton, A.W. Pink, Augustus Toplady, George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, the Pilgrims that came to Plymouth colony in 1620, J.P. Boyce & the founders of the SBC were NOT born-again Christians! You need to read some church history! (If you can read, at all.) Your comment SHOWS your low level of education and understanding.
Jesus made wine out of water at a wedding ceremony where they were already a lot of people already drunk. Jesus already drank wine which was fermented. the percentage of alcohol is not clear. i agree drunkeness can lead to sin. you are using a lot of non-biblical sources.
@user-nk8xs7lk3f Let's ask God for wisdom, and an extra dose of good old fashioned common sense. Will I drink a glass of wine? Yes. How often? Maybe4 - 5 times a year. In the last 30 years, have I been anything even close to drunk? NO. have I sinned? oops, yes.
Can you take an action(like drinking) which if done many times in a row leads to drunkedness=sin and say it's "okay" if you don't exaggerate? Let's be honest...
God's Word is abundantly clear: it's called moderation. Jesus made it, drank it, and gave it to others. The sin is being drunk, not in private enjoyment having a glass of wine at dinner.
@@Jesus_is_Lord_316 I have repented and turned from my ways , MacArthur is not the author or the finisher of my faith , Christ is. You MacArthurites worship his every word and statement
Here is the bottom line. the Bible says 'Don't be drunk with wine' (and do be filled with the spirit. No where does it say no red wine..white wine, .. now go and enjoy the presence of the Lord as he is always with you
![KAYTRANADA - Witchy (feat. Childish Gambino) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jGK3YVmGZ3Y/mqdefault.jpg)
I have known Christians who proudly kept themselves pure by completely avoiding such evils as dancing, card playing, and drinking even a drop of alcohol. However, when it came to matters such as justice and mercy and loving their neighbors as themselves, there was little evidence of that.
I've absolutely witnessed the samething and to me love,kindness and mercy is more important.
Yes because they’re checking boxes. I was that person. I could keep all the rules but I had no joy or peace and was miserable until I bowed the knee and rested in HIM. I checked boxes but my intimacy wasn’t there at all. When you’re intimate with God and live in His presence you won’t want to do anything to quench the Spirit not to show you can keep rules but as an outflow of your love for Him. Religious Christians put the cart before the horse.
@@tigercat73 I think that the Bible is pretty clear that they are more important to God as well.
So well put. It's not about dancing, it's about what kind of dancing/place/music. Card playing? It depends on what type of card playing. Alcohol? It's about what kind and how much. As a retired pastor/chaplain, my wife and I choose the type of dance, place, and music. It's the same with cards: Crazy 8s, Hearts, Fish (with our grandkids), and other more advanced games are mind stimulating. A quiet evening dinner at a Mexican eatery isn't complete without having a Margarita to share with my wife of 39-years.
The hypocrites say, "I tithe, fast, pray unlike that piece of scum in the corner!" Christians who know they are saved by God's grace alone, not by works, are often the most loving, giving, and caring of their fellow neighbors. 'nough said.
You are quite right there.
Not all of today's dancing is "dirty dancing." And I don't. Nor do I have much alcohol in this world. But the first miracle Jesus performed was turning water into wine. The thing is: Consider anything and everything that leads you away from Jesus is not something we want to do. We should ALWAYS be moving toward Jesus, not away.
"water into wine"... 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 yea, great fairy tale story.. and good people still believe the bollocks... amazing.... ever seen the recipe.. 🤣🤣🤣 also.. who is this woke-jesoz-bloke ?
Water into wine was not yo get folks drunk.
Wine back then was not alc. like it is today.
DO NOT DRINK because it will poison your life!
My parents met in a ballroom in the early 50s. A lot of trouble comes from alcohol. I haven't had a drop in almost 31 yrs.
Did you just call yourself trouble? Lol
Trouble comes from sin and from the weaknesses of man. Alcohol doesn't make anyone do anything.
Our Sermon today was about this from Luke 11-37:54... JESUS said to the Pharisees " Woe to You, you Hypocrites! You clean the OUTSIDE of the Cup but on the Inside, meaning in your Heart, you are filled with wickness and Ugliness... basically forgetting Justice and Mercy and Love!!!! REPENT and turn your Heart over to JESUS and stop obsessing about outward appearances and dancing etc.
00:13 🕺 Old Testament mentions dancing before the Lord for joy, but modern-day dances promoting sexual stimulation are discouraged in Christianity.
03:24 🃏 Playing cards isn't inherently wrong, but avoid if it bothers you or affects your testimony. Cultural context and community standards matter in evaluating appropriateness.
04:21 🍷 The Bible acknowledges wine, historically mixed with water, seen as a beverage and medicine. Drinking unmixed wine was viewed negatively.
07:04 💧 Ancient practice of mixing wine with water was seen as a safer way to purify water. The Bible encourages moderation in consumption, distinguishing between wine and strong drink.
drinking in "moderation" means NOT DRINKING ALCOHOL AT ALL. alcohol causes brain damage (DUH) and early onset dementia AT ANY AMOUNT. we don't need wine for water purification anymore, it's a thing of history. don't be stupid, leave it in the past. drink a nice glass of purified water, and try some of that eternal water too.
Hi Paddy! If the water was not that clean, wine would be mixed in to purify it. But, in biblical times, if the water was good, wine was served. On Pentecost, when the believers were being called drunks, they didn't say, "We only drink a bit of wine with water!" or "We're Christians! We don't drink wine!" Rather, they said it wasn't the right time to drink for personal (private) enjoyment. If Jesus made it and drank it, who am I to say he sinned???
You can even drink whiskey, just in moderation. And don't get drunk from it. Make sure you have a full belly when you drink 1 shot.
@@markwhite116 There is no such thing as "drinking alcohol in moderation". Moderation is not even laying a finger on it and protecting your loved ones from it.
@@ookydooky8892 so Jesus sinned when he gave the wedding the "best wine of the night?"
"Then you may spend the money on anything you desire: cattle, sheep, *wine, strong drink, or anything you wish.* You are to feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice with your household." ~ Deuteronomy 14:26
God never forbids us from drinking the best wine, or even strong drink. He even permits it during our feasts as we rejoice and give thanks... *HOWEVER,* we are to do so sparingly, and in moderation. Avoiding drunkenness, and making sure we do not cast stumbling blocks before others.
Exactly the verse I was thinking about, myself. Love MacArthur, but he often has a bad habit of putting his own theology into the Text of Scripture. Still an amazing expositor! But a lot of it commentary suffers from the few points where he (Probably unintentionally) forces his own theology onto the Text. But we all have our faults, and even in this, I think MacArthur is one of the best Pastors of our day.
@@ThePaulKM SO you make your theology from one verse only and not the whole concil of God. WHat about other verses when God forbids it ,like the case he used with Aron.
@@pjetri24 There are other verses in Scripture which condemn drunkenness, but I am not aware of any passage of Scripture which explicitly forbids the drinking of wine in general. If you are aware of such passage/verse, please bring it to light.
I do not pick and choose what verses of Scripture I am to obey, and asserting the claim that I am doing such with absolutely no evidence to point to the fact is not only disingenuous, but very much unlike Christ, indeed. I suggest you consider your speech more carefully before making baseless accusations next time.
@@ThePaulKM I am sorry .My comment was directed to @beowulf154.My mistake ..I think is a matter of caution.THere are a lot of doctrines that we may have not have explicit verses for.First of all the wine we use today is not the same . Second : If God told the priests to not drink bcs they would pervert the judment why should we. Proverbs 31:4
“It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:”
= refrain from it lol
If it's not wise, don't do it. That's my filter.
Of course, but how do we know what is wise? It's the same "wisdom" as Dwight from the Office
ruclips.net/video/z2eZC40GdnI/видео.html
@@nickhall6265 Good plan.
@@patrickmccarthy7877 I agree with ya Rick.
@@holzmann- Pat and rick. That's us. If my name was Richard, I would be rich in name only.
Amen, amen, amen.
Was invited to gather with a couple guys from my church last night. I thought it was going to be with guys my own age (40's/50's). But had guys in their twenties and early thirties, only a few guys from the church a few others from somewhere else. The conversations were not sinful, but also not for encouraging, they were drinking beer and hard liquor, and smoking cigars. Then started playing poker. Not my idea of a good time! Aside from playing poker, the smoking and drinking bothered me. Especially coming home and smelling like smoke. I think this has to do with this younger generation that views Christian liberty very loosely.
Sadly you are right!
That sounds like a great time.
John MacArthur is a modern day Pharisee. He condemns things that aren’t even in scripture and push holidays and traditions of men like Christmas Easter and “the lords day “ being Sunday.
He’s arrogant and prideful. If he does not like it he tried to make it a sin. David danced naked. Jesus made wine and there is nothing in the Bible about tobacco use anywhere.
No one says you have to dance drink smoke play poker use tobacco eat junk food or whatever. If you don’t want to don’t do it but why care if someone else does it. Yes. Modern day Pharisee
@@Jericho-xs3ju Plus, John MacArthur uses a new age Bible translation.
Did you all watch a different video? Guys, when the comment section contains nothing more than people fighting for their right to party, its concerning. It’s concerning because clearly we live in our modern day Roman Empire where the good times have kicked up several notches. Why is it wrong to be extra careful? You go around calling people Pharisees because you don’t like people telling you to be careful? Please be careful. Peace to you.
Houston….
100 a modern day Pharisees I not anyone else in here are advocating for drunken orgies pagan idle worship sacrificing kids or pagan idle worship. Drinking whiskey smoking cigars and playing poker is a great time to bond and build your relationships. Do you have to , No. If you don’t want to don’t do it. I don’t know anyone who cares if you don’t. But a lot of people sure want to be in others business about enjoying the things God has given them. When MacArthur can’t back himself with scripture he mocks things. How many forms of dancing are there ? Not all modern dancing is sexual and twerking.
If anything. Celebrating Christmas and Easter are more pagan that drinking whiskey smoking cigars and playing poker.
MacArthur creates Christian rules that are not in the Bible. That don’t violate Gods laws. That’s exactly what the Pharisees did.
You should be careful if that’s what you want. But make sure you don’t. Eat McDonald’s that can lead to obesity. Drive your car , Every time you leave your house you take the risk of injuring yourself or others. Especially since 40000 people die a year in car crashes and God did not say it was ok to drive a car. Definitely don’t watch any sports. Professional sports is pure vanity of highly paid womanizing play boys why as a “Christian” would you support such a thing. And don’t even think about getting a marriage license in todays modern society that marries same s x marriages. How as a Christian can you support a system that contradicts the Bible and goes against “Christian” values.
See I can play the Christian hypocrisy game and act like a Pharisee also. The Bible states what is a violation of Gods law. It’s not any of these things MacArthur condemns in this video. He himself plays God by doing this. If God does not care enough to list it as a violation of his commands. Neither should we.
Thank you MacArthur. Gods grace and knowledge has blessed you so that we may be blessed also.
My parents were ballroom dancers. Judaism. has dancing and it can be drunken and sexual. I dont believe this has much connection with Jesus way of life Herodias daughter caused lust from her step father and David allowed his clothing to fall off It was not commendable. The Celts danced in order to make the warriors aggressive Africans do the same thing. The association with houses.and women of ill repute was all.round Jazz and dance was a mode of rebellion from the flappers onward
I think its a licence for impurity even in services..but with the flood of modern worship songs inappropriate dancing has come in the back door
Why do the gospel.choirs never keep still?
MacArthur is simply wrong about wine mixed with water. The Greeks always mixed wine with water. But when they refer to barbarians taking wine unmixed, they are not simply referring to the Scythians, but to basically everyone else, including the Jews. To be a barbarians is to speak "barbarbar," which is what every other language sounded like to the Greeks. The Jews drank wine unmixed. The custom of mixing wine with water spread from the Greeks to the Jews only after the Hellenization of the Jews (post Alexander the Great). The Old Testament references to wine as "making glad the heart of man" is a reference to straight wine. It's great. And Baptists should drink it in moderation.
I don't think playing gin rummy or Go fish or Uno is a bad thing
Genesis 19:33 says " So they made their father drink wine that night. And the first born went in lay with her father. He did not know when she lay or when she arose." It is therefore clear that the wine referred to in the Bible was intoxicating and not just strong drink as is suggested in this discussion.
If you read further in the new testament even Jesus drank wine. He stated not to do so in order to get drunk.
Um, the Genesis text and incident happened in the earliest of times, and I would say has very little bearing on the information presented by MacArthur, especially within a NT context. And it's quite possible, I would say quite likely, Noah's sons could have diluted the wine, as was the practice, but didn't. It's all very interesting, that's for sure.
All the giants of our faith made poor choices when controlled by their fleshly desires. Alcohol reduces your inhibitions. Poor choices have consequences. The descendants of this unholy union were the Moabites and the Ammonites which were the enemies of Israel throughout the Bible. God showed his grace when He redeemed Ruth, a Moabite woman, to become the ancestor of King David and Jesus.
And Jesus drank wine, so I guess Jesus was a sinner after all! SMH
It is clear Noah was a righteous man. It is also clear he had too much to drink and became intoxicated, which was out of sync with his normal character. He wasn't at a bar, a disco, at some social event, or stammering like a fool down some dark alley, etc. He got drunk in his own house/tent, and then fell asleep, after which his body was exposed. His son, Ham, encountering the situation, then told his brothers all about it, who then took a blanket and respectfully backed into his father's tent and covered him up. We aren't given all the details, but it is clear that Ham was disrespectful toward his father in some serious manner, warranting the curse that was pronounced upon him. The NT declaration that "no drunkard will enter the kingdom" is totally non-applicable to this event. The point of this NT text is not to say that no legitimate believer could ever get drunk, or that one's salvation would be lost if he got drunk, but rather that people who live sinful lives and are governed by the fallen ways and principles of this corrupt world, are not regenerated individuals, etc. And anyone who lives according to the pattern and practice of this fallen world must not deceive himself into thinking he is bound for eternal glory. The pattern of his life and thinking point to an altogether different conclusion.
Moderation is the key. I'd like to hear his stance on gluttony, and overeating. This is a bigger problem than the three of these that he mentioned.
It's so funny, as John MacArthur is sitting there he looks like Ric Flair. That was my immediate thought when I looked at the picture.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I did too
A little.
To be honest, just because wine was mixed with water. It was probably because it tasted so bad. I’m sure they just drank more. Why would anyone think just because it’s a weaker drink people wouldn’t continue to consume it?
Exactly, the Romans mixed it with spices and honey, I’m sure it was nasty.
Just because David danced , didn’t mean it was necessarily kosher…we should be silent where the Bible is silent and be led by the spirit. If we live by the letter of the law, the letter kills, the spirit gives life…use Jesus as our guide - he appeared to have numerous contradictions by his words and actions, yet was infinitely wise and perfectly guided by the spirit.
As long as the dancing isn’t sexual I see nothing wrong with it, in church too.
Church dancing usually isn’t. But every prom in the USA is almost inevitably inviting sexual desires to come out. I never understood why so many Christians condone proms
@seanteague2530 judge not lest ye be judged. You are judging this individual. Be careful!
@@jondeik 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?
@@CRHjr Matthew 7:1-5 NKJV
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
I’m not arguing, but mine was a verse too
@seanteague2530Dumb comment.
Deuteronomy 14: 24And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: 25Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: 26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
So true but what's with 1611 English? Hello, it's 2024. Please speaketh common English, okayeth?
Amen! Christ is LORD!
So keep yourself from the one you deem inappropriate! We were all in chains at one time. Us being elders couldn't do those moves anymore if we wanted to. But we can love them so hard with a fathers love they may dance like David. I will follow the teachings with all my heart, soul and mind! I will pray day and night for wisdom and forgiveness should my choice be wrong. One word to all that know and can hear is "stones". The greatest of these is love.
If drinking alcohol at all was inherently evil, why would Jesus choose turning huge vats of water into wine as his first public miracle?... At a wedding... Where there was absolutely dancing
In that time, it was safer to drink water than water due to the limitations in storing water in a sanitary way. The Bible does not say that drinking wine is wrong, rather drinking to reach drunkenness.
Probably because wine was equated to grape juice that wasn't fermented yet. You can figure that out by when they were telling people to drink wine for stomach issues. I don't believe in alcoholic beverage would help you with stomach issues. But they did use unfermented grape juice aka wine for stomach issues.
Right on bro old testament God gave us wine to gladden our hearts, Not grape juice it was fermented grape juice.
I'm inclined to think that you didnt hear what John McArthur just said
@@chadengels2625 i disagree
The commentary on WINE is interesting and brings to mind Paul's instructions to Timothy: 1 Timothy 5:23 "No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments". This backs up the idea that the water was not always pure and caused illnesses and so the wine mixture was the best solution.
Is this some kind of yoke? Stand fast therefore in the liberty, wherefore Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with a yoke of bondage. I think I'll chew on that for a while.
Let's get one thing straight. The Israelites added wine to their water to kill any germs (they didn't know why it worked, but they did that). So stop twisting that to say that they always drank diluted wine. When Jesus changed water into wine at the wedding in Cana (John chapter 2), He made between 120 and180 gallons! While drunkenness is a sin, drinking wine is not. In fact, wine is listed with the blessings God makes in Psalm 104:15, "And wine that makes glad the heart of man." Jesus drank wine and was called a "winebibber" by the Pharisees (Luke 7:34). Don't be like the Pharisees.
1) I don't think the Israelites knew about germs. 2) I don't believe wine diluted with water can kill germs. 3) Wine back then was not as strong as today because the sugar content of fruit was much less than it is today. 4) If they mixed water with wine, perhaps it was to have a nice-flavored drink without getting drunk.
Anyway, this has not much to do with your wonderful post. Keep it up.
A *calvinist* approaching a person to preach *his* “gospel”:
"Hi! I have good news for you! I don't know if God loves you, the most probable thing is that He hates you.
I also don't know if He died for you in the cross, only a very few were chosen… But Listen!"
Sad but true! This is the false gospel that is being preached in many churches.
We need urgently to bring back the *powerful, simple* and *true gospel* summarized in *John 3:16.*
If God says that he died for everyone, *it means that He died for everyone:*
*Isaiah 53:6* ; *John 1:29* ; *John 3:16,17* ; *John 4:42* ; *2 Corinthians 5:14,15* ; *Romans 5:18* ;
*1 Timothy 2:6* ; *1 Timothy 4:10,11* ; *1 John 2:2* ; *John 12:47* ; *1 John 4:14* ; *Hebrews 2:9* …etc
Let's be very careful, let's not be found liars.
One of the world's best exercise is dancing. A great way to get together with others is by playing games that generate intelligence by thinking. Also wine is very good for the heart.So what is wrong here? Self control begins within the family.
Mr. Morrison as you probably already know that some people have a problem with drinking alcoholic beverages. The scientific community believes that anywhere from 10-15% of the human population may have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism. So if you take a single harmless drink it can actually turn out to be a green light for someone else to go ahead and "stumble" into a lifelong addiction. Please don't be the initial cause of your neighbor falling into this kind of Slavery.
Wow
And I was just being brief. Great reply.
Legalists. I can do without them. I LOE dancing the two step. If's FUN. Orgy dancing is what God hates
Drinking alcohol is not good for the heart. In the study you're referencing, the only people who experienced boosts in heart health markers were those who drank less than they normally did in their regular lives for the study.
With great respect to the pastor: I can say with 100% certainty that not all dance moves are designed to stimulate sexual desire. The overwhelming majority have nothing to do with it actually.
I sow dance with my wife all the time. It’s a sweet time. I danced with my mom at my wedding… it was a special moment. The sweeping statements made by j Mac here don’t cover the full subject. Context and intent are important. Legalism isn’t impressive. Telling me my dance with my mom was sinful is ridiculous. Careful of legalism that fulfill self-righteousness rather than holiness.
I don't believe that he is talking about slow dancing with your wife or your mom. Please!!!!!
@@deborahparrish2201 you’re proving my point. He didn’t cover the full subject… and as a believer and someone who really respects Pastor John I wanted to give a thought in the conversation that gives a little context. Left just to the sound bite one might thing all dancing (outside of joyfully worshipping the Lord) is wrong, and that’s not true. Nor do I think that was his point. Again, just adding some context to the conversation… you’re welcome
Instead of making someone stumble. Why not explain what the Lord has told us. A Christian is not forbidden from drinking and or gambling. But these things should not control us. A genuine believer can stumble. But not fall away. If they do. They will definitely come back.
Yes at the same time, preachers will knock back a can or two of soda pop during the sermon and give themselves diabeties! SMH
Gluttony is every bit as sinful as any other vice.
@@tomforsythe7024 Of course it is, but that is never said form the Preacher drinking Pop while preaching every sermon. So why the double standard?
@@saxmanjpr5092 Is your point that they should also preach against gluttony? I agree. If your point is they shouldn't preach against drunkenness or gambling, I strongly disagree.
@@tomforsythe7024 Drunkeness is different than having an occasional brewski! And the last church I went to met inside of a BAR! Read the scriptures: Jesus turned water INTO wine and when the multitudes ran out, he made MORE!!! By YOUR standards, if you used any critical thinking, Jesus must have been a stumbling block! Nothing wrong with gambling either IF you know your limitless and BUDGET. You know, The Lord sent me a female missionary to help me in my life that I met in Las Vegas a few years ago. I was DESPERATE for a ladies help since I never knew my mother , so the Lord sent me a female missionary from EUROPE since the America church flat out refused to help me and only shoved me into mens groups against my will.
It is clear that you are emotionally upset, and just lashing out. Drunkenness, gambling, and gluttony are all sins. That's not being judgment, it's what God's Word clearly says.@@saxmanjpr5092
If it’s fun, it’s probably sinful and you’ll go to hell so don’t do it. Not sure where that is in the Bible but it must be there somewhere.
These responses are profitable for those that are in love with Jesus and want to please Him.
For those that don't care about Jesus or misunderstand what being a Jesus disciple is and therefore think by obeying you will get any spiritual benefit, these responses will appear oppression and burden.
I didn't get married because I wanted to do dishes but instead I do dishes because I love my wife and I'm glad God poured infinite mercy on me so today I have a wife and a house and a family and dishes to do!
The very reason why dancing and music and fun and joy exist is because ALL of those things are part of Gods existence (even before man was created) and He decided to share that with us.
Wine will be in heaven for Jesus said He will drink it with His bride in the presence of the Father BUT Jesus also shared with us Wisdom (when we ask) and His Word and expect us to use them.
I like wine and will be mixing it with water from this point on....
Canterbury Cathedral allowed a secular pop concert people danced and alcohol was sold This is actually against church law.
In.my school..first on the list of banned objects smoking materials and playing cards
Seniors began playing bridge and flouted this.
It's ironic the monestaries invented distillation.
On dancing Abraham displayed public affection to wife Sara & on wine David tried wine to weaken Uriahs resolve .
When was this? John sounds a very young here.
_14 _*_David danced before the Lord with all his might,_*_ wearing a priestly garment. 15 So David and all the people of Israel brought up the Ark of the Lord with shouts of joy and the blowing of rams’ horns_ (2 Sam 6)
And nothing in scripture condemned David. His dancing was a form of liturgical worship. One shouldn't add to scripture that which is not there.
Nothing in the scripture approved of it either. There is a difference between describing something or prescribing something.
Also we are followers of the new testament worship, not in a place or in flesh, but in spirit and truth. No where in the new testament do we see dancing as approved forms of spiritual worship...not a single place...yes the healed sick man is not counted as a form of approved worship, it doesn't say peter and John jumped around with him. He just got healed after being paralyzed for such a long time, it's forgiven for him.
But as a form of worship we see, singing, praying, and a life given to christ. Thanks Giving with your words, and good deeds as a form of worship by showing that you abide by the teaching of christ. That is true worship. Not moving around like you are possessed.
@@ichernichenko "that is -true- worship. "
A great video by Joe Heschmeyer on what is true worship, and not. ruclips.net/video/lg4S1VYac-Y/видео.htmlsi=2iKddhE_l4tladr9
Here's what the Second Council of Nicea said in 787 ad on 2 Sam 6 :
*_The children of Israel revered the tabernacle of witness with a suitable honour (II Sam. vi. 13), and yet in no respect sinned nor set at naught this precept, but rather the more glorified God._*
"Nothing in the scripture approved of it either. "
Note, it's harming text to believe that doing so was offensive to God.
What makes you think your interpretation of scripture is better than an ecumenical Church Council 1200+ years ago??
First of all JESUS died for the law. We are no longer under it. We are to live by grace and love and obedience. We all aree going to sin. their is a big difference in sin and living in sin.
The pastor always teach against legalism, but now he is teaching pro-legalism. It is not what you do or eat, but what comes from within your heart that matters. Pharisees tried to behave good before everyone but they had problems from their hearts. Human efforts can never fulfill God's desire unless they are filled with the Spirit of His Son. Those who are Spirit-filled do not need to be taught how to behave because they follow the Spirit.
This is John MacArthurs point of view, he is not a spokesperson for all Christians.
His position is supported by the Bible. Christians follow God's word.
@@kb12689Amen!
Get your world view and line your theology to The Word of God.
@@kb12689 and THE BIB E says that David danced before the Lord and those that complained, God KILLED THEM! THE BIBLE also says that Jesu drank wine, which IS a low content alcoholic beverage! So, by YOUR STANDARDS, in ignoring hat passage, Jesus must have been...A SINNER! BTW, "Gods word." Which denominational interpreted is the REAL truth? ;)
@@saxmanjpr5092 idon't know what you're blabbering about. You clearly lack discernment of God's word.
David danced before the Lord
Drink a little wine for thy stomachs sake
I myself have a small portion of guiness each day full of iron
JESUS turned the water into wine
Card playing is ok if no money
Involved!
A distant cousin of mine had a Dad who was a minister who preached no cards & dancing so in rebellion we would sneak around and play “Go Fish” card games as kids.😂😂😂
The bible contradicts itself so do as Christians have always done and cherry pick the bits you do like 😂
Wine isn't always refering to alcohol
@@holzmann-uhhhh like some religions say when they don’t want to admit it: it’s a metaphor!🤣
@@BQ900 Wine is wine. The thing is, it ripes and the alcohol grows. Then it can barely count as new wine anymore😎
Also, I know of no preacher who says cards themselves were a sin aside from poker
Calvanists don't believe in dancing - they dont even dance before the Lord - so what they're saying is don't use a computer because other people use it for sinfull acts - tell me has John Macarthur ever danced before the Lord or with his wife? Hyper critical - sorry to say but calvanists as a rule critisises.....that is all they do..all day long - please your relationship is directly with the Lord and not through John Macarthur - do a study of Arminianism and Calvinism - on your own
I guarantee the Israelites had folk dancing. Every culture does! Sure, avoiding sexualized dancing is very clear, but I see no problem with dancing in general- ballet, ballroom, swing….
That was me. I do it in the spirit because I am so joyful that I was saved
Think of the prohibitions that he places on people, all based on self control, which the Bible addresses. So many people “interpret” their own beliefs into the Gospel. Every time I hear someone pontificating about something they perceive in the Bible, I go to Revelation 22:18-19. I am 100% confident the our Father who art in Heaven can clearly convey His message to His children through His Word.
Interesting, the keto diet and carnivore diet both recommend no alcohol at all because it is high in carbohydrates (sugar) and spikes your blood sugar. These diets and others want to promote health and it seems alcohol isn’t deemed healthy, therefore, unnecessary!!!
But Jesus drank wine. HHHMMM...
@@saxmanjpr5092The wine in biblical times was generally mixed with water. Today, there are wine spritzers, etc.
The biblical admonition is not to get drunk - ie, be out of control with your behavior.
@@karenschmidt965 Yeah, I know that but if I were to have a relaxing beer at the church summer pool party, do you think that the pastor would tolerate that? So what! - Regarding todays drinks. its called, "personal responsibility" and "knowing your limits!" It s not different than me knowing my limits on soda pop and drinking too much of hot kind of "bubbly" makes my kidneys hurt. Seeing my pastor drinking a cola from the pulpit could be a stumbling block for me too. According to the "rules," shouldn't he know better? BTW, you said, "generally," so what about the other drinks? I bet Jesus didn't leave a drop of water in the jugs when he turned the water into wine!
I'm sorry but 20 to 1 wine.. Is really water with wine flavoring 😅. Personally I don't drink because it's a problem for me.. but even strong wine can be drunk in moderation.. and not to get drunk.
His voice sounds like from the 80s? I wonder what year MacArthur spoke these words?
there are many types of dancing, they are not all modern day, how can anyone say they are all wrong. I suppose there was no dancing at the wedding at Cana.
Of course there was no dancing, they were all Calvinist back then!
Its funny how guys like this claim to be so scriptural and yet they preach from their opinions. Of course MacArthur preaches against the prosperity doctrine and yet he is worth 15 million, so he is not only marginally scriptural but a hypocrite as well.
Iyt is not a sin to be loaded with money. It is a sin to hoard it, It is imo sinful to stiff the waitress . unless the service was poor.
@@glenw-xm5zf Loaded and hoaerding...your going to have to make that distinction. Even though I do think it is a sin to hoard money and thus "be loaded." That isn't my issue. My issue is MacArthur and all his buddies calling out proseprity teachers for "being loaded" and lo and behold he is loaded himself, which is hypocrisy...beware of the leven of the Pharasee and Sadducee....And money isnt their only trait.
@@glenw-xm5zf "Its not a sin to be loaded with money, it's a sin to hoard it."..... You might want to look up the word "symantics"
Having read some of the responses to this thread just on dancing, but you know how perverse people are in their prioritizing of situational comfort over obedience to the word of God.
God gave us dance, he didn't give us perversion with our dancing - defining and contrasting the difference, is not legalism, it's clarity...
To see it any other way, has revealed your stronghold.
We've got a lot of coffee house Christians on this thread that need to go visit John MacArthur's Church for a while... I did 35 plus years ago when I first came to California, before there was even a Master's College.
Clear biblical exposition, done in a winsome what authoritative manner.
He lets the word speak for itself - Jack Hibbs, and Greg Laurie... so he's a lot more emotional about it, pastor Francis chan, who baptized me as well.
Some of you coffee house Christians over here need to make some decisions
He equates "modern" dancing with sexy dancing or partner dancing, but then goes on to acknowledge that ancient people danced sexually as well. At the same time he doesn't seem aware of any of the dozens and dozens, perhaps hundreds, of traditional & modern dance styles which are completely un-sexual. What a disjointed and ignorant train of thought! I expected something much more rational and biblically founded from such a well-respected pastor.
Its how you dance Where you dance
David dance on to the Lord
As for drinking
The Bible speaks more against drinking then for drinking
I'll give you 1 Proverbs 20:1
So do you want to say guys that Jesus gave more than half a ton of Alcohol to people to drink in John 2? Let's be wise and examine carefully what the Bible says
Do you not believe God's word? YES IS WAS A WINE IT WAS ALCOHOL. IF YOU WERE A DRUNK OR A WEEKEND DRUNK LIKE I WAS YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE HOST MEANT WHEN HE SAID THEY USUALLY SERVE THE BEST WINE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PARTY THEN THE CHEAP JUNK AFTER EVERYONE IS DRUNK AND IT ALL TASTES THE SAME
Didn’t Jesus go to a wedding? He turned water into wine, right? There must have been dancing there. Though I agree one must be modest and not offend. I enjoy dancing w my wife and enjoyed celebrating my nieces quinceañera w my sons and extended family. God, will forgive our family
But I see how you're inserting your view of what dancing is like I saw in the comments if it ain't sexual I don't see nothing wrong with it dancing could be an expression of the how many people do it in different ways not by the way you say because you want the Bible to be interpreted how you feel. I think it's preachers like this that push a lot of people away from being Christians.
Can't we just move to music without it having to be about God or sex? Sometimes people like to do this weird thing called enjoying life. I am not sure that you have ever heard of it before.
It’s not about enjoying life, it’s about denying ourselves and living for the Glory of Christ
So asking that question, really puts into perspective where ur joy is and I encourage you to read scripture
Mark 8:36
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul
Gospel of the legalist: Thou shalt not smile, laugh,make someone laugh, and most of all, Don't be happy when you can worry. I stay away from those joy killers.
I’m looking forward to doing all three this evening. Whoop!🎉
I dance once a year at my hubbys company christmas party, not sxl at all, i play cards ie crazy eights with the hubby and fish etc simple games with the kids, nothing else, no gambling etc. I DONT drink alcohol as im holistic and it adds nothing to my health and certainly nothing to my tennis performance regime, why pay for expensive poison, whole idea makes no sense to me.
Well good for you, thanks for sharing. You sound very special and proud of yourself.
I love doing the HOLY DANCE...how about you all?
Nope.
@jm what you said about cards is the same for dancing, surely. You can’t apply what pagans do with something across the board to Christians as immoral or unacceptable, that’s nonsense.
😂 drunkards will never be happy with this. Please where can I get the full sermon
David danced and made music when he brought the ark back to Jerusalem
"My wife can still twerk for the lord" -TD Jakes
😂😂🎯
*in the bedroom... sure, why not?
The less says about TJ Jakes and his P Diddy connection, the better ...
@@Jesus_is_Lord_316Agree, but why are we even talking about his? It is not a game changer
Taliban believes the same thing...we are all the same...
classic J.Mac, funny , honest, articulate.
Where can I find the full video
People who want to control totally. Do as I say not as I do.
As for dancing in church , some is just a bunch of flesh. All they're doing is bringing their old disco days to the church. There's a whole bunch foolishness going on these days.
Christ is the Lord of the dance.
Theres something about cards. He comes with riches of diamond realms and loves with the heart of God but man came for Him armed with clubs and killed and dug His grave. There seems to be some kind of connection between playing cards and disrepect for Jesus..the Devils Picture Book
Conversely the song Deck of Cards is a criminal.record. is there any idea who wrote it or who was the stupid soldier?
Married couples can dance together and have a good that isn't the kid dance modestly in front of and dance they are the way they want in private with one another
I’m sorry but, by listening to my brothers and sisters laughing as you speak about dancing in a dark room, with touching and listening to a song with promiscuous words tells me that they are not even ready for this discussion at all. Serious discussions such as this to me, require no giggling at all. We need to raise a generation who cares. It’s really pathetic the normalcy today. What ever happened to the way the people acting in the 1960’s. At least there was clothing on the dance floors.
The Christian is not under the law. End of subject.
Exactly. God’s grace requires we live a life stricter than the law
@@jamesdick8681 how do you live a life stricter than the law?
@@jamesdick8681 On the contrary, God's grace requires nothing. That's why it's called "grace".
Jesus turned water into wine at the party.
I thinks alcohols ok
All good with this, imo.. but I wish someone of his stature and respectability would not reference Christianity Today, (4:24) which, although founded by Billy Graham, has forever now been a very liberal source that is uninterested in true, biblical Christianity, as it relates to culture, politics etc. CT is a friend to the Christian hating Left. Franklin Graham said his father would be embarrassed by what Christianity Today has become.
If you danced with joy before the Lord at Grace Community Church you would be kicked out
Drinking is not inherently sin. Getting drunk is.
As for dancing, David danced naked and unashamed. Now, should we dance naked? Probably not, but it's obvious that it pleases the Lord to see his people dance out of the joy they feel from Him. Does that mean twerking or lap dancing? Unless it's for your spouse, don't do it.
As for playing cards, as long as you don't gamble you are fine. There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing cards in and of themselves, so unless there's a gambling addiction, cards are ok.
John is dancing with legalism and always has. Why people love living in that kind of bondage, I will never understand.
Where in the Bible does it say David danced naked ?
@@Stangy04 my bad, he said he was willing to be naked and unashamed when Michal rebuked him. And Psalms 149 also states that we should dance as a part of praising him. The Bible is clear: dancing before the Lord pleases Him. John MacArthur doesn't listen to all of scripture, just the parts that make him feel comfortable. I don't go so far as to call him a heretic, although he should step down, since his interpretation of rules for pastors has been violated. (His son defrauded millions from people).
@@markwhite116 Amen, I agree Brother!
Um, the crazy antics I see going on in some charismatic churches, with people jumping and dancing all around, while music is playing for 30 minutes straight, is nothing short of foolishness and self-worship. This behavior cannot be condoned by an act of joyous expression on the part of David. @@markwhite116
Let’s all just look like the world and make as many excuses for it as possible. Holiness? Nah. Surely God didn’t mean for us to be holy.
How would you figure that avoiding any sort of dancing, wine, or cards makes you appear holy? It doesn't. Expressions of joy, drinks, and games aren't unholy. Your intent makes them good or bad, I'd think.
I drink to that!
Why do you need to add JM to get clicks?
Who cares?
Playing Gin and Gin Rummy is fun…
It's NOT the "Christian stance" that I'm interested in. It's the BIBLE "stance" that matters to me. DAVID danced in victory in the streets, and was despised by his wife Mikal for it. Cards are just a game. Wine was the common drink in Bible times...not grape juice which requires refrigeration.
My minister would call this legalism. You are adding things that are not there.
Not only are you adding things that are not there, but you are making these things the focus of what a Christian life should look like. For example, I wonder how often McArthur and others like him preach on John 13:35 -- "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Jesus didn't say everyone will know that you are my disciples because you don't drink alcohol, dance, or play cards. How often do any of these legalists preach on Isaiah 58:9-10 -- "If you do away with the yoke of oppression, with the pointing finger and malicious talk, and if you spend yourselves on behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday?" I would guess never.
No...he added nothing. Beyond a little historical education. Relax. Drink your wine, play your games, and cut a rug when you feel the urge. It won't hurt you.
Shane, I'm still waiting for your apology claiming I said something about bragging that I was drunk...that I DIDN'T say or experience in my personal life. You flat out lied, fess up.
Dancing is ok
Shane, you can call me a "Dude" if you were in combat (Vietnam) with me. Otherwise, you are being disrespectful of your elders.
Also, just who is bragging about being drunk??? That wasn't found in any of my posts.
1988 i think
Macarthur is not a Christian... he's a Calvinist.
Yes,Macartur is a false teaching Calvinist. Yet he is RIGHT on this subject. Almost every false teacher teaches SOME truth! That's why God's Word,the Bible,teaches us that we must RIGHTLY divide God's Word.This deceives so many people! Richard from Crimson Tide Country
brother John is a born again Christian who subscribes to a specific Calvinist Christian worldview.
Every born again believer is a born again Christian.
@@Jesus_is_Lord_316 Thank you. My sentiments exactly
Then, Spurgeon, John Bunyan, John Newton, A.W. Pink, Augustus Toplady, George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, the Pilgrims that came to Plymouth colony in 1620, J.P. Boyce & the founders of the SBC were NOT born-again Christians! You need to read some church history! (If you can read, at all.) Your comment SHOWS your low level of education and understanding.
You are eitjer a Christian or a calvinist
Don't forget contraception, Johnny mac.
Jesus made wine out of water at a wedding ceremony where they were already a lot of people already drunk. Jesus already drank wine which was fermented. the percentage of alcohol is not clear. i agree drunkeness can lead to sin. you are using a lot of non-biblical sources.
So no tap dancing?
Tap dancing is especially evil lol. right behind the electric slide and Shirley temple dancing while she sang the good shipe Lolly pop
@user-nk8xs7lk3f Let's ask God for wisdom, and an extra dose of good old fashioned common sense. Will I drink a glass of wine? Yes. How often? Maybe4 - 5 times a year. In the last 30 years, have I been anything even close to drunk? NO. have I sinned? oops, yes.
Dancing ? Didnt david dance when they brought ark home
Can you take an action(like drinking) which if done many times in a row leads to drunkedness=sin and say it's "okay" if you don't exaggerate? Let's be honest...
Jesus drank wine. End of story. Alcohol is fine in moderation.
God's Word is abundantly clear: it's called moderation. Jesus made it, drank it, and gave it to others. The sin is being drunk, not in private enjoyment having a glass of wine at dinner.
Of course. The same way you can encourage people to eat...when overeating that good Sunday fried chicken leads to gluttony, which is a sin.
Joy from God not from performance
I don't see anything wrong with playing cards🤷🏼♂️ especially if you're not gambling away all your money.
I think gambling is the issue, not card playing.
Who is this speaking? It does not sound like John MacArthur.
This is the greatest Pharisee in America , sorry not sorry
says every "believer" who refuses to repent and turn from their sins
Le Big Mac is hardcore.
@@Jesus_is_Lord_316 I have repented and turned from my ways , MacArthur is not the author or the finisher of my faith , Christ is. You MacArthurites worship his every word and statement
I hsve listened to the podcast on Christians and alcohol it says there is more questions where do i get the rest of the podcast please
Here is the bottom line. the Bible says 'Don't be drunk with wine' (and do be filled with the spirit. No where does it say no red wine..white wine, .. now go and enjoy the presence of the Lord as he is always with you
Jesus H Christ, who keeps platforming these people?