Thanks for showcasing this. It's pretty well known now that Ultimate has more frames between input than previous releases but I think this is one of the best showcases on just how severe it can be. I'm hearing it's roughly double the frames between input reads as compared to Melee or even other modern fighting games.
I went back to smash 4 for kicks and started getting used to the lack of a buffer system in 1.5 hours. My friend who plays casually had almost similar results. The only reason for the buffer system in smash ult is cuz it's faster. What's something skill hasn't fixed? TLDR We don't need the buffer system.
@@MrAllmightyCornholioz It wasn't too bad. Smash 4 has unstable servers, yes, but they mostly suffers for lag and not for delay, because when a match has good enough connection, the response is almost as good as offline, and in my personal opinion and experience, i felt like both were the same. In ultimate the delay is noticeable since the first contact with the game, even if both players has perfect connection. I enjoyed Smash 4 online so much every time it worked fine, but ultimate is just suffering because it basically can't works fine with that permanent delay.
When I play this game offline I feel great regardless whether I win or lose, cause I ain't dealing with the lag, the buffer system, and the button layout. But playing online makes me not want to play Ultimate anymore because it's so damn bad and I get this sense of playing constantly feeling like my inputs are slower and I’m not playing at my best...I don't mind losing, but when I play online I often lose due to the lag and it just isn't fun...Playing locally, I at least feel like I'm in control and responsible for my wins or losses
THANK YOU, i feel just like you man. i feel like i play great offline, but i go online and its like my play gets worse. my movement is more sloppy, my neutral is horrendous, I cant space well, and I feel like I input an aerial and it comes out 2 seconds later. i just wish Nintendo would fix this, idk how people play and are good in input lag-
I know. One of my discord friends managed to take some games off me. And he's worse at smash than me. Least that's what he claims. But all the games he won was online. I can't even consistently beat a player who's worse than me because with the laggy and inconsistent online, I can't do jack. I would have more fun playing a level 1 cpu.
@@wolfodonnell7890 it's been a thing for more than a decade, since Japanese fighting games started doing online play they refuse to use rollback netcode because 'they' didn't make it, so there's at best a 3-4 frame delay (more if you've got a bad connection). The worst people online learn to adapt their gameplay to just spamming their low frame out of guard moves because it always gives them an advantage, and they never learn to actually play good strategy as a result. What's annoying too is bigger bulky characters that either have bad out of guard frames or a terrible recovery if OoG whiffs get terribly punished while the lighter characters can keep on spamming those low frame moves
WOW! Even good online is laggy. Just enough to screw me over. Because of that, i can't play aggressively like i could offline. 9 out of 10, even with good online, i get punished because I can't react fast enough or the delay just messes up whatever I'm trying to do. So I have to resort to camping. If the opponent plays aggressively instead, I can't react quick enough even with "good online." What pisses me off is that online is all I got.
@@matthewpipes018 At least you can go to locals. You might as well just leave online. Unless you could help me improve somehow. I can't even play my friends anymore. I can only do that through online. Which might not be that bad come to think of it since they are considerably close to me. But even then, I just can't react properly even if I'm on a really good connection. My movement will NEVER feel fluid. I take more and more hits as a result because I try to move away, but I end up moving little bit at a time and most likely get grabbed or combo'd like shit. My aggressive game just falls apart. Even my campy game falls apart. I lose some stocks and it wouldn't be my fault. Like HOLY SHIT, I never knew that it could be this bad. If my opponent loses, I just feel their pain. I can't really call it me being good. Even if my opponent just uses the worst options when ledge trapping or whatever. They get absolutely frustrated. And they might be as sucky as I am online. I don't even want to play against a single player that plays online like as if it's offline, while I can't react for shit or even move properly, lose stocks by complete accident because of input delay, fail to combo my opponent or even take the stock, and just fail overall.
This is so relieving to see. I have a wired connection and this is like my first week of playing online and i was wondering if my connection was just shit or this is how it always is. Now i know that there is always some lag which is annoying bc like every online game ever has less lag than this game for some reason. It makes no sense as to why this game has so much lag. And like even “good online” is still laggy
I think everyone puts up with it. Hurts some more than others. If you’ve been playing smash for years now it’s manageable but really hard if you are new to ultimate. It’s like another learning curve entirely
Its the switch in general. Mario Kart 8 has very little input lag but the hit registration can be late by literal seconds especially later in the day. Ill pass behind someone and get hit by their shell a full 3-4 seconds after I should have
This game played with a friend locally still has lag, controls and commands get unresponsive and laggy, I dont know how people dont say that about this game is not an online only problem its the game itself and the way it was designed.
@@matthewpipes018 i mean, this just comes off of me being a melee player so like, don't take it badly, but i just hate the delay you have even in offline...
Come stop by my stream some time and say hi! www.twitch.tv/dgunz
I still think input delay even on offline is terrible compared to melee.
The fact that there's a visible difference between button press and the character even in offline mode is so stupid
Maybe I'm just tired of smash cuz of this,I rarely play offline but when I do it's definitely amazing
Thanks for showcasing this. It's pretty well known now that Ultimate has more frames between input than previous releases but I think this is one of the best showcases on just how severe it can be. I'm hearing it's roughly double the frames between input reads as compared to Melee or even other modern fighting games.
Smash Ultimate has the same Input Lag like Street Fighter 5 or Tekken 7. Your TV can make a difference too.
They need to fix this smash 4 input wasn’t this bad.
It’s crazy
Smash 4 was pretty bad too.
I went back to smash 4 for kicks and started getting used to the lack of a buffer system in 1.5 hours. My friend who plays casually had almost similar results. The only reason for the buffer system in smash ult is cuz it's faster. What's something skill hasn't fixed? TLDR We don't need the buffer system.
Sadly Nintendo don't give a shit about us so they probably wont I think it's a Nintendo thing
@@MrAllmightyCornholioz It wasn't too bad. Smash 4 has unstable servers, yes, but they mostly suffers for lag and not for delay, because when a match has good enough connection, the response is almost as good as offline, and in my personal opinion and experience, i felt like both were the same. In ultimate the delay is noticeable since the first contact with the game, even if both players has perfect connection. I enjoyed Smash 4 online so much every time it worked fine, but ultimate is just suffering because it basically can't works fine with that permanent delay.
When I play this game offline I feel great regardless whether I win or lose, cause I ain't dealing with the lag, the buffer system, and the button layout.
But playing online makes me not want to play Ultimate anymore because it's so damn bad and I get this sense of playing constantly feeling like my inputs are slower and I’m not playing at my best...I don't mind losing, but when I play online I often lose due to the lag and it just isn't fun...Playing locally, I at least feel like I'm in control and responsible for my wins or losses
Facts man, it’s crazy. I also have a display which doesn’t help lag either
Agree wholeheartedly. Online makes me rage bc I feel so slow
THANK YOU, i feel just like you man. i feel like i play great offline, but i go online and its like my play gets worse. my movement is more sloppy, my neutral is horrendous, I cant space well, and I feel like I input an aerial and it comes out 2 seconds later. i just wish Nintendo would fix this, idk how people play and are good in input lag-
I lose quite a few stocks from bad recovery online that I always know that I'd never fail offline.
@@universesixhit642 Exactly. That's why I barely go off stage when I played 1v1 online matches.
the input lag in online is so bloody frustrating. I don't understand how it can even be considered acceptable to be this bad!
I know. One of my discord friends managed to take some games off me. And he's worse at smash than me. Least that's what he claims. But all the games he won was online. I can't even consistently beat a player who's worse than me because with the laggy and inconsistent online, I can't do jack. I would have more fun playing a level 1 cpu.
@@wolfodonnell7890 it's been a thing for more than a decade, since Japanese fighting games started doing online play they refuse to use rollback netcode because 'they' didn't make it, so there's at best a 3-4 frame delay (more if you've got a bad connection). The worst people online learn to adapt their gameplay to just spamming their low frame out of guard moves because it always gives them an advantage, and they never learn to actually play good strategy as a result. What's annoying too is bigger bulky characters that either have bad out of guard frames or a terrible recovery if OoG whiffs get terribly punished while the lighter characters can keep on spamming those low frame moves
You can't even play aggressive online i swear
WOW! Even good online is laggy. Just enough to screw me over. Because of that, i can't play aggressively like i could offline. 9 out of 10, even with good online, i get punished because I can't react fast enough or the delay just messes up whatever I'm trying to do. So I have to resort to camping. If the opponent plays aggressively instead, I can't react quick enough even with "good online." What pisses me off is that online is all I got.
I feel your pain
@@matthewpipes018 At least you can go to locals. You might as well just leave online. Unless you could help me improve somehow. I can't even play my friends anymore. I can only do that through online. Which might not be that bad come to think of it since they are considerably close to me. But even then, I just can't react properly even if I'm on a really good connection. My movement will NEVER feel fluid. I take more and more hits as a result because I try to move away, but I end up moving little bit at a time and most likely get grabbed or combo'd like shit. My aggressive game just falls apart. Even my campy game falls apart. I lose some stocks and it wouldn't be my fault. Like HOLY SHIT, I never knew that it could be this bad. If my opponent loses, I just feel their pain. I can't really call it me being good. Even if my opponent just uses the worst options when ledge trapping or whatever. They get absolutely frustrated. And they might be as sucky as I am online. I don't even want to play against a single player that plays online like as if it's offline, while I can't react for shit or even move properly, lose stocks by complete accident because of input delay, fail to combo my opponent or even take the stock, and just fail overall.
This is so relieving to see. I have a wired connection and this is like my first week of playing online and i was wondering if my connection was just shit or this is how it always is. Now i know that there is always some lag which is annoying bc like every online game ever has less lag than this game for some reason. It makes no sense as to why this game has so much lag. And like even “good online” is still laggy
I think everyone puts up with it. Hurts some more than others. If you’ve been playing smash for years now it’s manageable but really hard if you are new to ultimate. It’s like another learning curve entirely
Its the switch in general. Mario Kart 8 has very little input lag but the hit registration can be late by literal seconds especially later in the day. Ill pass behind someone and get hit by their shell a full 3-4 seconds after I should have
I knew i wasn’t tripping 😭
This game played with a friend locally still has lag, controls and commands get unresponsive and laggy, I dont know how people dont say that about this game is not an online only problem its the game itself and the way it was designed.
FINALLY, an excuse I can use…
There should be no input lag. Period. Certainly not 11 frames.
thank you, this vid was helpful
still the same 3 years later, Brawl>all
A plataformer game with bad controls or responsiveness isn't a good platformer game gameplay wise.
This is the worst online experience ever
Frames:3/6/10(6/12/20 in 60 fps)
Only counted on the first one
I’ll just keep playing melee
the game looks delayed even in offline, this is so bad lmao
It's not. The offline gameplay is really amazing
@@matthewpipes018 dude the input lag for offline in my games is really bad
What
@@matthewpipes018 i mean, this just comes off of me being a melee player so like, don't take it badly, but i just hate the delay you have even in offline...
@@LeBrebaDuh I agree and I’m not a melee player. I think it’s the switch itself not smash because I even feel it in the home menu.
Pretty cool...
Mine is the opposite
And people pay for this bs.
I don't. I boycott NSO.