Daz AI Studio Launched... It Did Not Go Well
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- What do you get when you cross Daz 3D Characters with Stability AI's Stable Diffusion generative AI? Well... a tire fire seems like the most obvious answer.
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That's so freaking stupid. When a company known for producing 3D models of human characters announces AI features, people expect
"We're going to let you quickly generate and refine full 3D characters using natural language with a custom AI model that's been trained using our extensive knowledge of 3D character creation"
not
"We got StabilityAI to use DreamBooth with an outdated version of Stable Diffusion so you can generate bad images of our characters or whatever, please give money"
Right? I'd expect a "woman in her 30s, long, brown, curly hair, medium height, wearing a jumpsuit" to move the sliders around and generate a 3D character matching the description. Not another Stable Diffusion wrapper.
@@angius Ikr?
Considering they also jumped on the NFT bandwagon not too long ago, this doesn't surprise me at all.
Company desparately in need of a board coup to throw out the worthless marketing weirdos and replace them with 3D industry people.
Of course the furry is seething over tokenized self custody. Let me guess AI is taking yur jerb as well? It's hilarious when wets take construction jobs and lower the demand for labor, but its the end of the world when AI makes your non work less valuable?
If anything this adds more to my theory that AI is just another hyped thing by companies, just like crypto, NFTs, and the Metaverse…
I mean think about it, all these projects came out of nowhere, causing millions to lay their eyes on it, all these projects promised that ‘it’ll change the world’ and ‘the next big thing’, they all have a strict fanbase that doesn’t take criticism, has a bunch of RUclipsrs and popular users constantly talk about it, and they all are involved in some sort of scam almost on a daily basis
@@ethanissupercool7168grifters will grift no matter the time and hype sector.
@@ethanissupercool7168 I mean, it definitely has uses. But I agree the hype surrounding it is _ridiculously_ overstated. Midjourney, for instance, is far from useless, but at the end of the day, it's mostly just a stock image generator. Unlike NFTs in my opinion, these have the potential to be extremely useful, but calling it "the next internet" or "the AI revolution" or something similar is stupid
That Victoria cartwheel image should be their new splash screen! 😂
NFTs a few years back, a big announcement about Cascadeur support, that new funny animation library with a subscription model.
And a few other things.
Daz is jumping on every "current thing", nothing really works and we still wait for working IK/FK chains, softbodies, a working cloth sim and a usable timeline editor.
And that's for years now. It seems like they just don't care about their customers.
and meanwhile they had announced DAZ Studio 5 a few years ago that was not even promising new features and some sort of staggered release, and even this they have not done yet. these guys are incompetent. they struck gold when they started out, had some good ideas in the beginning but probably could not keep the developers that had initially, and then turned to shiny new things every six months or so, just to keep the people entertained.
been using daz since 2010 for work, and my frustration level is maxed out to the point I do not even care to post any suggestions on the forums anymore. they simply suck, and I am sure they are already dying a slow death. doubt they will have any sort of a resurgence in the next few years unless they drastically change course and hire proper developers.
Cascadeur is actually useful at least
DAZ's video is right now 134 likes vs 256 dislikes...
Missed opportunity to create a 3D mesh AI generator 😂😢
They missed the mark so hard on this one they made Ferdinand Magellan look like he was using google maps and GPS.
How about a smart AI for the Content folders.
I can not be the only one that wishes I had a trainable AI to handle faster Navigation.
Daz has a cool base of tools for creating characters and clothes library and they need to become competitors with CC4 and iclone and improve export to game engines, but they have been constantly going wrong for several years
A better tool would be something that pulls from your daz assets and generates a random scene you can then customize
Said a similar thing myself. Have it built into Daz Studio and effectively use it as the renderer to add to and enhance the scene you create.
That would require effort on their part, and they only have very few competent people who ACTUALLY work. They are simply understaffed when it comes to developers and software designers. They do not even create the base figures by themselves, they usually hire a freelancer for it. Daz has been stale for well over 10 years now and unless they hire some proper development team that brings in a wave of fresh air, they will slowly die off...
Even posing the characters you have… man missed op comparing.
I am tired of companies picking up tech just because its trendy, there was no need for this.
I haven't thought about Bryce in ages, that was the first 3d software I ever used back in the late 90s
The negative reactions are valid IMO. I gave this a quick go and even for a first, initial release it was terrible and incredibly lacking. There's certainly nothing that makes it worth the sub price. If this was to use the figures you already own, including custom characters, all within Daz Studio itself then it could've been really useful. Yet it appears to me that you'll need to re-buy characters you already own (not sure of the price) to use them with this.
Mike: There's an option for 1-4 images per generation on the left.
Eghads, I'm blind today, thanks. Even worse, and more than a bit ironic in my case, I typoed Michael too...
@@solarydays I'm not sure if you're saying that generally, or aiming it directly at my comment but that is definitely not what I'm doing.
try the "return dislikes" extension for yt, it might come in handy here 😳
How?
@@vectoralphaSecIt's an extension from the webstore. Seems to work well for me. I see dislike again and it seems to be consistent with youtube videos general reception
@@vectoralphaSec RUclips only hid the dislike counter with CSS, it's still counted and there in the background. So an extension or tampermonkey script can show it again.
At time of posting that video has 282 dislikes to 134 likes, and 4.2k views. Not too bad, but then again I think people stopped disliking videos so much when its not visible that anything happens.
Edit: Not good either, that's 32% likes to 68% dislikes. But there's certainly been worse cases
@@Sylfa You are wrong, the public API for RUclips dislikes was shut down a long time ago.
ReturnRUclipsDislike Explanation: "A combination of archived data from before the official RUclips dislike API shut down, and extrapolated extension user behavior"
Yeah. The addon is sadly not accurate.
5:44 - Hey Mike. My two comments are right there.
Who would of thought companies would use ethically dubious machine learning technology to attempt to extract more money from users in an extremely lazy way?
8:12 perfect for a survival horror game
It would fit in Sons Of The Forest
Just Why? There are some genuinely cool things that they could have done with AI. Like they could have made some sort of prompt based AI system for DAZ studio where users could put in a prompt and it would try to make a 3d model for them using DAZ's models and morphs. Or a system that attempts to pose a 3d model based on prompts. But I guess those would take actual effort, this looks like something that one guy with access to DAZ's stuff and a reasonable knowledge of SD could make in a day.
absolutely right. i doubt the staff at daz have anyone with actual ml engineering skills so they're effectively banging rocks together with off the shelf models to try to cash in on the hype. there are tons of ways that a tool like daz could be enhanced with generative software, but as you say that would require effort.
When I saw this, I was expecting them using text prompts to create fully 3d modeled possibly animated models, but this.... no.
I would love a tool that can do like, "create a female cowgirl character with a large cowboy hat and spurs, include animations for whipping, running, and dancing." and create a 3d model like it, even if it is low poly.
That will come but its a much harder problem to solve to a high enough level. There are text to 3d tools around but its early days.
You're definitely an "idea guy"
Already possible, do more digging.
Yeah, we're a long way away from that. I'd say over 5 years, if it comes at all. Even 2d image generation technology isn't nearly there yet, 3d is lagging far behind that.
@@LupusMechanicus There are 3d model generators, but not good ones, and they can't do animations
dude what was that last gen... nightmare fuel doesnt even begin to describe it
Hold on, Daz tried to sell NFTs?
It was a shiz show
As someone with the "Return RUclips Dislikes" addon, I can confirm that as of writing this comment, that video has 137 likes and 320 dislikes.
It's not 100% accurate obviously, but it is one of the world's most popular addon so the data should be reasonably accurate.
afaik they have an store where people can sell content for their program, have they trained their IA stuff with thirdy party content as well? if so, then they WILL lose their core business.
So it's just a custom SD checkpoint? Damn, when I heard announce I thought they wanted to make AI for creating/modifying character models.
i think that's probably what they were initially going for, but they just lacked the skills to do it and ended up with this instead.
In the UK, DAZ is a brand of washing powder (aka laundry detergent). I feel my washing machine is more useful than any of this generative AI crap.
I'm a Daz user and member at the site. Nothing wrong with the program, it's the company that is way out of touch. It won't do any good going there to find out what people think, cause the Mod's are deleting negative comments (something the site is famous for). I can tell you the majority are not happy and some vendors are considering leaving Daz, some already have, some are even giving up on modelling all together cause they're just so tired of the BS.
I mostly use Daz for drawing reference. I've tried feeding its output into AI to produce a realistic "photo" from the 3D render, and I have to say the results are quite impressive (but uneven). My concern is not that it will get better than human artists, but that nobody cares if it's better, so long as it's cheaper and faster. We've already been flooded with horrible AI imagery where the user did not even make the minimal effort to fix mistakes. And they're trying to monetize this. And for all I know they're succeeding.
Does Richitello join Daz and became their CEO? 🤔
not even he could make it worse. they have been sabotaging themselves for a decade or so...
They're one of those companies that makes semi-useful software, focusing on exploiting creative users. Definitely not a company to buy products from.
Hi! I have had more than a few posts of mine deleted! The AI thing is cutting the throats of the PAs. I can not see it succeeding outside of those that wish to just “make art” button. The mod are horrifically biased and censor the forums on site. And they seem to extend that outside of their site as well. They do not have a functional “filter” inside dazstudio, Most of us have support tickets that are going on a year with no answer, but they toss this monstrosity out! They have been sidelineing and censoring anyone asking if they actually have the IP rights to certain things in the marketplace, this...this AI joke...is just going to be another albatross around their neck!
Could be used for Resident Evil characters.
They need to quit messing about with this BS (and NFT), and get DAZ Studio updated to perform better.
DAZ is also infamous for deleting posts on their forum that point out long-standing problems with their software (like Connect breaking literally hundreds of packages).
They see a lot more interested in selling models and trying to hop on hype bandwagons than fixing their software. 😠
I'm not a DAZ user, but I did check it out a while ago... The thing that I really liked is the ability to pose your character exactly as you picture it in your mind. And this removes all that control, and now you have to pray for something usable. Apart from that, what's the incentive to not just use stable diffusion? People use those models because with enough work, they can look realistic... Stable diffusion can do that by itself. This might be the dumbest thing I've seen in a while.
As a long time DAZ user, I initially thought the idea of training AI on 3D assets definitely sounded better than all the stuff that currently just scrapes copyrighted content... But this ... Definitely not worth it.
The problem with that of course is that they are just using the same Stability AI data laundered through training with their own material, so it doesn't even do anything to really address the ethical concerns.
"3D Character Creator" -- also known as "Poser3D" back in the day :X
They have an AI generator but their rig doesn't even have IK controls in their own software. You still cant even export hair that you create in the software. But hey atleast we are given an AI image generator. Their daztoBlender bridge is completely busted and half their export options straight up dont work but who cares right? atleast we have an image generator...
I figured they would have where the ai could reference the 3d models look and pose so you could get more coherent results from the ai. Kinda like a last step to stylize it. but didn't expect them to do nothing and plop some generic ai slop. But nevertheless I'm happy theirs push back I'm really sick of this ai nonsense.
The funny part is that there was literally no way for this to work out for the.
Daz3d based modle. Already exists on Civitai.
Use it to pose. Blender, Cascadeur and Comfy do it better.
If they wanted to go down this route they should have used it as a SD3 tech demo at least that would have been somewhat useful.
I find myself much preferring Stable Diffusion-style stuff to create eldritch horrors, it does a good job of it.
7:59 JESUS CHRIST MAN are you trying to give me nightmares!?!?
daz's character creator is great, everything else surrounding it is either ununsable or needs some work
Is this only images? I can’t generate characters to continue editing?
On Midjourney you can add "DAZ Studio Render" into your prompt and get a very DAZ-like image.
Yup that’s a cartwheel in 2024
On their vid, someone said in a reply, that the images customers make in it aren't theirs. That they belong to daz so you can't even do anything with them. Does anyone know if this is correct? If so, that means people are paying a fee to make things that isn't even going to be theirs.
i wonder if make any success with NFT?
I wish I wasn't a Daz user, but I spent too much on their shop. I am ashamed to even know what it is.
I'm surprised you know what it is because I'm surprised anyone knows what it is.
I use DAZ as realistic figure reference. Unless you jump thru hoops and exert a LOT of time and effort, it's VERY hard to get clothing to behave naturally. Here, at least, they have done a good job of making images look good and natural. If the new AI feature could take CUSTOM figures and pose them as needed, it would be a godsend. I don't think that's on the horizon, however. DAZ wants to promote their pre-configured characters, that you HAVE TO BUY. Currently, it all seems VERY clunky.
07:55
Reminds me of that docu where mr Grumpy Anime Grandpah himself was shown a demo where AI was used to animate ragdoll humans.
"Well... Every morning... not recent days, but I see my friend who has a disability... It's so hard for him just to do a high five, his arm with stiff muscle reaching out to my hand. Now, thinking of him, I can’t watch this stuff and find [it] interesting. Whoever creates this stuff has no idea what pain is whatsoever. I am utterly disgusted. If you really want to make creepy stuff, you can go ahead and do it. I would never wish to incorporate this technology into my work at all. I strongly feel that this is an insult to life itself.”
- Hayao Miyazaki
Hasn't changed much in the past decade, has it?
why should I be using this then instead of midjourney if it has come to that...this is stupid!
This software has so much potential with their models for animation, instead of working on that, they are releasing some garbage quick buck grabbing addons. On the other hand 3rd party software's like Reallusion getting the market on quick animated game ready characters. I guess Daz3d will never learn from this and instead going to stay as a lazy company that relies on still image rendering and let their model uses on steam porn games. Disappointed.
Poor Victoria really got mangled while doing that cartwheel. I just don't have any use for this product.
This is for Daz users who don't customize their characters and don't want to learn lighting. Sigh.
... and don't know how hands work, apperently
@@ahettinger525 lol, and probably don't care
Trailer currently got 134 thumbs up and 265 down. There are browser extensions to bring back dislike button via API.
And that was just on one hand!
2:58 I'm watching this on phone at 480p. Even before you mentioned it, I already noticed the hands are very problematic even on a small screen and low res 🤣
Anyways, what's the point of this app? It seems to me that they're killing their users now that people can just generate without having to pose, set materials etc with this new service.
I always like prototyping reverse engineered software and tools, of course, I can only do it legally, aka a clean room…
For a while now I always wanted to do the same for Daz, but I always didn’t want to do it cause I thought they weren’t a big company and it would be kinda scummy
This video made me change my mind lol
Now to only figure out a way to reverse it legally… only issue is that all models are based on genesis… a model… how can I recreate it without braking laws…
I’ll figure it out, if I found a solution for Unreal Engine I’m sure I’ll figure out some loop hole… or maybe I’ll make an original character creator myself lol. Not trying to be mean but makehuman isn’t the most realistic 😂
Yeah of course it got messed up. These guys have NO IDEA what to do. Their history of releasing new ideas is less than stellar. The potential is always there but they are mostly too lazy to release stuff with the proper polish and QA. As if they just sit around a campfire throwing ideas around, then something sticks but only one guy gets put on the task while everyone else is busy talking about it. Then they release it and nothing works, or just some things work and then they let it simmer in this state and abandon any progress on it without ever talking about it ever again :D
I like a women with 6 fingers
Three-armed monopod women are my favourite.
So cursed 7:58.
Edit:
Not sure if anyone mentioned it. But you only had one image selected, so it only generated one. It seems to be under Prompt Strictness.
it's at 134 likes and 248 dislikes...you really need to use firefox and an addon to appreciate the ratios that a lot of these videos have....hey @youtube, hiding how disliked something does not make it likeable :)
Unless just can at least make the 3D models what is the point?
This is not a useful tool unless you don’t care what you get. And even then…
How about AI to help you pose the models you already have? Or to stylize your model’s hair? Or generate a skin texture? All of these so you can modify your own models before you render. Or how about using AI to help set up your lights? That’s how you use AI, not this raw image generation BS that’s already been made and is already old.
I saw someone in a Discord server mess with using Daz renders through an AI re-render and I thought it was a good way to make TTRPG art for a book you would publish. You still need a good eye for it though or it comes out a bit uncanny because of the lighting or the clothing looking too much like a Daz model.
Not really an AI supporter per say... but honestly...I feel like you can make it work for you with a little thinking outside the box.. It can help with render block. You could use it for background creations or ideas. etc. I spend a lot on content at the Daz store every month and dont see that going away for me personally just because AI came about.. But yea, I feel like a person can get the best of both worlds if they allow themselves to.
You can get an addon for the dislike for your browser to show it.
I'd rather give my thumbs up to creators like gamesfromscratch then to nonsense like what they are trying to pull.
First, great video. Second, Daz3D just does NOT get the new pipeline.
1:51 You know, you can have dislike button back, just install addon for it.
yup. None of the decent Daz users wants this. some vendors are even closing up shop at Daz,
and now Daz is fishing in the Renderosity pond to attract new vendors.
Daz have a great ability of misreading the room. Look at the early nft threads.
There are so many things Daz users want them to work on, AI generated images is not one of them.
Native linux support would be good, as would a render engine that can use amd gpus.unless you want to wait hours for a cpu render you have to use Nvidia.
I understand that AI art has developed a rather poor reputation, but even by the standards of AI art this is utterly abysmal.
Beyond the fact that I don't know why anybody would want to generate what amount to generic stock photos of 3D chatacters, the results are significantly worse than anything that's been released for Stable Diffusion in the past 2 years (likely due to the incredibly limited data set), the generation time is insanely slow, there is almost no fine tuning, and it is rather expensive for what you're getting compared to it's competitors.
"He was a dare devil, just like his old man!"
You know what Stuart, I like you.
I paused the video shortly after 7:56 because your reaction was priceless. AI is immature technology that will rapidly improve.
I was initially completely negative about AI, but I've found one valid use case for it. It is legit a great way to easily identify people who are lazy and/or have no taste, so they can be permanently frozen out of all collaboration.
So like... this is one of the first generative AI where you can morally generate artwork. If it's ONLY trained off of Daz's art and being licensed out, then yeah it's genuinely an AI product tackling the biggest issue of AI, that being the source images being used and copyright. However, it runs into the issue of WHY most models use copyright art work on a massive scale; without it the AI can't properly learn what things are.
So I can genuinely give praise to Daz where it's due, I think the people attacking it are being outright idiots for only seeing flaws, but I can't say it's quite ready for use, nor is it the best product to make. A company based on providing tools for artists should make something which can help aid an artist, not replace them.
At the time of my watching 22:55 (5th march 2024), The vide has 134 likes - 282 dislikes ratio.
I actually don't mind the Daz models but I hate their software in every possible way. Normally I export the models to blender and go from there.
I maintain that AI generation is a party trick and not actually useful for creating content with real world requirements.
I do think there is room for tooling that uses it to modify/work with the artist as they create, smarter editing tools, but everyone with more money or greed than sense is falling for the party trick and chasing an unattainable goal.
all the bandwagoning companies seem to be operating on the assumption that they have a magic secret formula that puts them ahead of the competition....by putting in the same AI slop as everyone else.
a thing being impressive is not the same as a thing being useful. anything that's actually professionally valuable like upscaling will probably work fine no matter whose algo you use, and will have open source alternatives everywhere pretty quickly.
there are definitely applications for LLMs but natural language prompts targeting non-artists is a complete nonstarter both artistically and economically. that's without even getting into the IP rights nightmare.
All they had to do is make a suite of tools making it easier to work with SD. Control net stuff would’ve been epic! Instead, I’ll just have to make a product…
3:46 One reason I stop supporting Daz after ten thousands of $ of purchase.
Almost occultic mindset in my humble opinion and if they don't like your post, they make excuse to delete it.
And the products are NOT game engine friendly out of the box.
Will have to tweak heavily, like decimating, texture atlas(ing), etc.
Don't even think about using them for mobile development.
real artists must be shaking in their boots...
What happened to Taffi???
Daz has a lot of users
But this ai service has to compete with
Cascaduer or other products available in the current space
Daz, a solid foundation going to waste. Why they have no desire to compete with Reallusion…. Idk
1:48 Just checked and at least according to Return to Dislike to RUclips its at 135 likes to 329 dislikes.
About what you might expect, perhaps even a little better than for them than what you expect. Haha.
Insulting. That shit is all free.
The like to dislike ratio so far is 1 : 2
Looks like something from The Forest 😂
DAZ should get it together like Iclone and Character Creator. They have better models and tech than Reallusion does. Why can't they become the prememium character creator software?
There is some merit to this idea. Having the same character in your game and in your AI art seem useful. The issue is that the results are so bad. Also, Steam does not allow games to be published on their store that use AI art. Who is going to use this?
You know, for just about 2 hours worth of work and research you can have something significantly better than this on your home computer. Like I can get an AI image generator up and running with 6 gigs of vram (Less vram just means slower). All you need is Python, git, comfy ui, 2 checkpoint models (one to make the average the other to fix it || unless you're using SDXL), and a more details LoRA and with a midrange computer you can make something significantly better is there anything daz can put out.
Now I know some of you are thinking this is a lazy cash grab that Daz did and you're right, I just wanted you to know how lazy.
And to think, artists are afraid of AI putting them out of work.
So automatic1111 does it better as it is a tool made to make merged AIs, train them but also use txt2img, img2img and accept whatever extensions you want it to.
For DAZ it looks like one of the models on civtai you can get for free but the DAZ version is was as you cannot adjust it for you in the prompts and other AI stuff
Now onto the txt-2-3D AIs well I guess that is what DAZ went with not txt2img. txt-2-3D is a newer thing with more bugs and really their brand is they allow for 3D modelers to model in their software having an AI do it for you gets rid of your job which for management is most likely what they want as less people to pay but for people who use DAZ3D is not what they want as DAZ3D is already not the industry standard. Maya and other Autodesk stuff is. So i guess DAZ is looking for a way to get in where Autodesk has not as Adobe tried that already provided the tool and made it part of the product they already are paying for instead of a separate one. From what i can tell almost no one uses it.
I hope DAZ will run into what Adobe did and their consumers will just not buy it. For Adobe they baked it into other products so the consumers had to get it just almost none of them use it. For DAZ making it another product well they are competing with free. Just the free version came before and works better then theirs right now. The 6 fingers problem is already solved, the objects in the wrong location problem is also already solved, DAZ is very behind in the AI game and should stick with what they are already doing instead of pissing off who pays for their software.
Yeah its a bit less than beta to be charging for this yet and it may not even be ready to be released for free in its present state.
Maybe they should hire someone with a clue to plan how this is to be released rather than the sales drones.
The problem is that Daz is rather late to the AI game, all the groundbreaking features they are touting have been released by everyone else already.
there are browser addons to bring back the dislikes. the ratio is about 1:3 right now
Daz, deleting forum comments?
I'm so shocked!
Every creative person absolutely loves idea of taking away whole fun of creating something and replacing it with "generate" button. Right? RIGHT? :D Some really clueless people are in head of these companies.