Affirmative Action Debate: Tim Wise 3/14- Intelligence Squared U.S.
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2007
- The motion: "It's time to end affirmative action"
Moderator: Robert Siegel
Speaking for the motion: John H. McWhorter, Terence J. Pell and Joseph C. Phillips
Speaking against the motion: Khin Mai Aung, Kimberlé Crenshaw and Tim Wise
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TIM WISE KILLED IT!!!! FACTS
This guy needs to run for public office.
All I see is white denial in the comments, smh.
All I see is butthurt blacks in real life.
You see what you choose to see
They not trying to hear this! Truth!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
"It is whites and only whites I would suggest who could C's all the way through school brag about their mediocrity publicly, mangle the English language, and go on to become the President of the Untied States"
*Crowd applauds* the story of GB'S life.
Haha, I love this guy! Tim Wise is a beast. He was on such a roll that he didn't even hear the one minute warning.
What was the quote at the end?
I was raised in a black working class family with a single mother. But just looking back at the generations before us, by law, your family would have been given access to a "headstart" at the american dream. This is a 200 year headstart that yes applies to virtually ALL whites who lived in America during that time span and that their children and grandchildren would naturally reap SOME benefit of this headstart is not all that hard to understand. Denial is dangerous.
That's a very good point. Whites have benefitted from affirmative action for a very long time (e.g. FHA, GI Bill, etc.) yet nobody ever complains about that.
Read "Asian American Voices for Affirmative Action". Affirmative Action helps Asian-Americans more than most of them realize and eradicating it would hurt Asian-Americans.
Actually this Tim is just...Brilliant!!!!!I didn't know him...
I was always told that affirmitve action was to give women opportunities in the work place. I was also told that during the 1st-2nd world wars jobs in black communitites were plentyful. When the war was over oppression started all over again. There were no black panthers or Klan rallys only Americans and unity.
When the millions of whites who served came back all hell broke loose and congress, state officials no one came to our aid. We are still asking for help not hand outs.
Tim WIse made the whole case right there Mic drop on em
i googled information on the homestead act (1862) and the fha loan (1930s) am i missing something?
People who read from a script in a debate ALWAYS lose.
I just had to lol at the reference to Bush!! I love this guy! "mangling the English language"
@eyelikepie1 , what magical "gov website" did you find these numbers?
@JayJ004 WOW. Ugh...that came out of left field. I'm not really sure what that has to do with my statement. Could you connect that for me?
Well said using the facts!!! Thanks!!!
If he, Tim Wise, said racism was dying, he wouldn't have a job.
Alot of cultures came up with the concept of human rights. It did not begin and end with one culture. Who freed the slaves? You mean the same people who established slavery and their descendants who benefitted from the wealth they gained from slavery? I guess they should be the ones to end slavery. Bravo!
To hell with this man if he believes I should pay for something I wasn't even around to participate in.
Though 10 % of the U.S. civilian labor force, African-Americans are 18 % of U.S. government workers. They are 25 % of the employees at Treasury and Veterans Affairs, 31 % of the State Department, 37 % of Department of Education employees and 38 % of Housing and Urban Development. They are 42 % of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., 55 % of the employees at the Government Printing Office and 82 % at the Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency.
I Freaking love TIm Wise....... He killed it can they even speak after him I cant imagine what they could say???????
"this nation cannot survive with secondclass citizen appointment"
I agree, but I don't see how Affirmative Action can reduce poverty and social exclusion. There are more poor whites and a few less poor blacks and there is more resentment and hate between races than ever before. That's all we got out of it.
If that idea comforts you, feel free to cling to it.
On the inheritance issue, I think that only applies to very wealthy whites and it doesn't explain why Asians that have come over recently with no money have surpassed whites overall. And not following affirmative action rules is not "discrimination". It's just failing to discriminate with affirmative action. With inheritance, the only way to know is too look at numbers and see. It's not something anyone could argue without a ton of information.
@@jermainewoods7397 That didn't really address this post.
cool what planet do u live on?
But the most decorated aerial unit in WW2 was all black (Tuskegee Airmen), and the most decorated land forces unit in our entire military was all Japanese (442nd). Yet they got nothing for their service. No one group has shouldered the burden of the rest, yet recompense is not uniform.
Preach, Sir!
someone, please explain to me how anyone is still benefiting from the homestead act ? thats quite a claim and seems immeasurable
there are plenty of scholarships available for polish-american, german-american, italian-american, irish-american students, etc. not to mention the hundreds of other merit-based and other scholarships available.
It's like a car crash. You don't want to look, but you can't stand not to.
I've taught critical thinking at a University. If you are in college you sound like a freshman.
You like apples? How like those apples?!
Matt Damon
But those things from the 1930's to the 1960's could have been overcome by now. The 30's are 80 years ago and and the 60's are 50 years ago. There's been plenty of affirmative action for blacks since the 1960's.
@Ester Samuels -
ruclips.net/video/2roWLzrqOjQ/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/gLdjVOswjRQ/видео.html
www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/category/history/how-the-new-deal-left-out-african-americans/
As for me, personally, I've helped several black people. I used to give one guy a ride to work. I've given money to them on the streets, etc. But I've also had thousands of dollars taken out of my taxes and put toward programs designed to benefit blacks. But think of all the white teachers, social workers, actors and academics, as well as white politicians who have made it their mission to help black folks. Then there are all the predominantly white churches who try to help the urban poor.
I am American, and I am Black. I do agree with the last part of your passage, and that's all I agree with. What makes you better then me? what makes me better then you? where we live? how we speak? who happens to be in charge? Nothing does, only personal moral character, and personal advanced thought. If most Americans could we would cease all war, but that's not the case. The Americans who don't troll the internet, and comment nonsense, are mostly the ones who try to make a diff in the world.
wtf? just let him finish the damn quote!? god I hate NPR.
"Study from six weeks ago" It likely hasn't been peer reviewed yet. :/
I can tell you really adore us black folks.
The more we listen to people of color, the better we can learn what they must know to survive: that there is injustice and that we can do things about it.
Good luck and best regards.
Yeah those were the days, mabye there could be others like Tim who still exist to this day.
I wonder where they are and why I only heard of Tim Wise here on RUclips?
wow... finally a white guy that understands & isn't hiding the truth, but speaks out against these truths
Genious4real, I agree with much of what you say, but what do you mean by "free lunch"?
Just one question: Wouldn't the solution be to remove this allegedly white favoritism, rather than simply switching it over to blacks?
Tim Wise is my hero. Growing up in Oklahoma as a young white man has shown me the greater extents of white privilege in this country.
Tim Wise is a really honest and engaging intellectual.
How can Africa be the sight of the first man but not have the first civilization?
I'm intrigued to hear your answer.
Preach, Tim!
It is definitely time to end anti-white discrimination.
Whites should allowed to openly discuss white genocide in the public discourse free of demonization and reprisals.
By your definition, "Lack of impediment" is the same as "advantage over others." Under this formulation, one is best off being white.
Truth is, for one group to be disadvantaged requires another group to be advantaged. They're relative terms. It may be hard to own that you're a part of an oppressive system, because that means admitting that more than personal merit is boosting you. But it's a necessary step.
I'm glad you had some stats. A lot of people just assert stuff with no evidence.
peace brother u got knowledge u speak the truth!
...and that's where you are wrong Bob Johnson. Most black people do not see "you" as an enemy. Don't take stuff personal. No one blames "you" for slavery, inequality or anything else. It's not about you as an individual...it's about a system that, even though strides have been made...is still not totally equal...especially when it comes to the justice system...And many black people, including myself, know that we are not doing everything that WE can as a whole to better our situation.
I'm sorry, but the slight about George W. Bush puts this whole debate in true perspective.
No one ever said it wasn't, but we're talking about civilisation in Greco-Roman/Egyptian terms, not Sub-Sharan African terms (of which Ethiopia, the origin of homo sapien, is a part). None of them are what we consider to be "black" or "African-American." However, there is evidence that Sub-Saharan Africans were used as slaves in Egyptian society.
Lol. Those that have opportunities do not NEED a free lunch. A free lunch is not something that simply exists by virtue of its existence, a free lunch must be provided for those that cannot provide for themselves. It is the difference between a high school party-- where most present are seen as friends and brothers-- and a homeless soup kitchen, where those present serve third-rate leftovers across a a plexiglass sneeze guard to people who they view as "in need".
@MegaWinnieGirl I am tired of him telling me how privileged I am, like I didn't have to work for anything and that I am wealthy. There are also places in the US where the majority is black and whites are underprivileged, such as Philadelphia, the very place I live. Most of the whites have fled Philadelphia for the suburbs, Jersey and Delaware. Philadelphia now has 1 million fewer residents (from 2.5m to 1.5m in 40 years) and is almost entirely run by blacks.
Ms Anacapri
While we are on the subject of current Events id love to read your thoughts on this video?
There are oppositions to the comments made by this brother Tim wise. He also has other videos where he talks about the truth and why the black community is the way it is today!
Hit me up when you can shorty!
Tim Wise is the most accurately self-descriptive name since Chris Bores!
We need a system based solely upon merit. This is the only way we can avoid becoming just another 3rd world nation.
damn! He completely changed my mind on the issue. but if we confine this argument to just the issue of higher-education, why not just have applications numbered (eliminating preference for white-sounding names) and then apply 'affirmative action' to those from low income areas instead of based on race. my reasoning being that surely there are at least a few disadvantaged whites not benefiting from these programs and a few minorities with an unfair advantage. those numbers might not be significant now but they will be once inherent racial disadvantages are eliminated.
that might be the best idea I have ever read
They weren't black? Please explain to me how two completely different races can evolve naturally on the same continent. And if they weren't black, what was their race?
I'm waiting....
Very Rare in america a white man telling the Truth refreshing!
Interesting points raised. It was mostly an emotional argument, but he did have some good points. Though I have never seen a 400 old white guy run anywhere...
He said something to the effect of "Unless an alternative solution can be found..."
How about treating people equally, not giving benefits based on financial or economic status, and going based on academic or athletic ability.
Im black. At first I did not like the idea of affirmative action, because i thought it was unfair, and made us looks bad, but hey this guy has the facts.
as for wise, i hope makes lots of money
that mean people are listening and opening up
to talk about it in order to resolve the issues
through breaking the taboo of this subject.
do you think the discriminators want to give this merit?
of course not. they want it to continue than to let it out
in the open.
Here's an idea for affirmative action... allow people to control the communitites they live in and to have a say in their own workplaces. Provide the same educational opportunities for everyone at the get go regardless of race or economic status. That will help to level the playing field.
Lol @ Tim not hearing the warning.
@brinkfan If race is a social construct then by that logic shouldn't different breeds of dogs be a social construct? In which case there'd be no difference from a doberman to a border collie right?
So then what could it have been your Apartheid, Legacys, ristricted country clubs, or the LAW?
I never said nor implied that black people don't have some personal responsibility for their lot in life. But if there exist systemic disadvantanges, which there do, then we need to combat those to ensure everyone has an equal opportunity to suceed. We combat white privilege by dismantling the systems that still give advantage white people and disadvantage black people. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S, we need to have equal public education funding and combat residential segregation.
I agree with you
Is this an ad for Red Bull?
Until America decides to start spending money preventing crime instead of enforcing it, poor people will continue to cycle through the industrial complex we call the Justice system! (hey thats something you can research: How much spending does the Dept. of Justice spend on prevention rather than enforcement?)
Wow!! Need I say more...truth is powerful!!
"so there is nothing to say to them frankly."
Translation : There is no money to be made attempting to guilt trip them
@draghollow Which comment of premise is UNTRUE? I challenge you to enumerate...
From the look of some of the responses on this thread Tims point speaks to the heart of what I m reading... Even when faced with the truth people who have benefited from this countries history will still say i did it on my on...But this is why Racism will still thrive in this country..The ignorance is almost part of the DNA in this country....
man this is deep...i dont know what to believe. this is quite a complex subject.
Controversy is good. The issue is the right of free public discussion surrounding the issue of White genocide. Power to call witnesses and demand documents
You need to tell us why you want to suppress discussion of this issue.
Tell us what the possible solutions for the severe decline of the White race and the pressures to force non-white hordes upon all White countries. What can we do to stop the govt programs that foster assimilation and racial blending. do you have answers to these questions?
Education is the power "THE MAN" uses to keep us from understanding who we are. Also from taking our place as masters of the world and universe.
tell it tim!! you are brillant!!!
(continued): i.e., a racially homogeneous people. The colonies had been peopled by Englishmen, Scots (including some from Ireland), Germans, Dutch, Scandinavians, and Frenchmen. They were all "White" and most of them were Nordic Indo-European.
Despite the number of Congoids, Jefferson was adamant that they should be free. "Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free; and that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government."
@a86
real talk...good comment. I'm a little unsure about the Cornell West part but i get what your trying to say.
Oh and remind me again who freed the slaves? Remind me again who came up with this notion of human rights ? La charte des droits et libertées?
Who was the first to implement "equality" of races?
The success of Asian Americans kind of just ruins this guy's argument... They were treated harshly in the late 19th and early 20th century (not as bad as blacks but worse than Hispanics). Yet, Asian Americans, who usually come from another country having nothing to their name are the highest earning race in the US. It's all about hard work.
IQ is an assessment of intelligence, it is a means of ascertaining the ability of one's mental faculties, generally we test for areas of intelligence we know are relevant and important for statecraft.
I'm currently experiencing racial bias, at my place of employment, where the company goes through great extents to deny African Americans upwardly promotions, by hiring and promoting less qualified white males, despite their lack of experience and skill sets, based on the job description requirements. They practice this through white networking, which is a deliberate attempt to exclude African Americans from the hiring process, exactly in the way Tim Wise described it.
Right, I agree, and I believe that in some areas AA should still be in effect, but ONLY for the workplace. If we're talking about AA for education it should be out the window completely. It had a purpose when it was established, and now it's obsolete. The majority of Universities WANT more minority students on their campuses, now we could argue on the reason as to why they want us, but their certainly not trying to keep us out. AA in schools should be over for everyone regardless of your creed.
Maybe if he calmed down a little he would have heard his 1 minute warning.
@coolbreezed how on earth has institutional racism in the US been eliminated ?
Seriously.. can you give a single example of a place it had previously existed, but has now been "eliminated"?
Im really looking forward to your reply to this comment.
When has "blackness" been used for "Sub Saharan " (a term created by Europeans themselves) African identity?
Um, I am not sure what your point is. The U.S. as a whole has moved far away from agriculture, and the U.S. economy is dependant, like Canada's, on the service industry as the primary labor market. After Industrialization, most lower-middle income people began to fill the new labor market, which was service jobs. Also, most black people didn't own property, the legacy of the share crop system from slavery actually meant most black people were in debt or mortgaging property.
@Joeybsmooth If read the comments you'll see that he evaded my question. I'm not interested in a back and forth with someone who refuses to read and address my comments -- that's not a conversation. Thanks to you, also, for adding nothing to the conversation except "LOL."
the truth is of course that you're right andrrreag!
'Populists' must remember, first of all, that Jeffersonian democracy was not intended for Timbuktoo, Fiji, or Erewhon. It was designed for the thirteen colonies that had just won their independence--for a specific people in an historically unique situation. Those colonies came close to being a nation in the primary sense of that word, a "natio"; a large tribe formed of persons related by ancestry and birth, (continued).......
if ur paying attention 2 his speech then u understand it is still not in the past it is still unfair 2day
its great how people thumb down comments but are either to indolent or incapable of telling the poster why...
seriously who here disagrees with what I've said...
Not really. From the 50's-90's (when most Asian immigrants came here) the government showed preference towards educated and skilled Asian immigrants, so even if they weren't wealthy, they brought with them the tools necessary to build wealth and worked from there. In comparison to east asians, southeast asians tend to be much poorer than average and more in line with hispanic immigrants for many of the same reasons.
Maybe you should take the earplugs out so you can hear what's being said.