Yankum Ropes, DO NOT USE THEM
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- Опубликовано: 11 ноя 2023
- Since our original video was removed for copyright issues from Casey
We keep getting hundreds of messages and comments daily about a Short video from march, and those people blasting us saying post a video or shut up. So here is a video showing some details with our experience with yankum and their lies repeatedly
along with Casey and his smoke and mirrors
#RUclips
#video
#jeep
#truck
#offroadrecovery
#jeep
#minivanjeep
#factor55 
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After doing Towing & recovery for 37 years, i kept trying to explain to fellow operators that the numbers they kept pushing on those rings were wrong & there was significantly more frictional resistance using those vs a real snatch block... as a professional, you dont cut corners on equipment when you're hired to do a safety critical job. Same way i kept trying to explain that even on a light duty tow truck with an average 8k-10k winch... they should be using a *Minimum 4t block. *even though that is actually still underrated if it's used for more thann a directional change. They argue the winch will stall @ rated capacity... will it? Either way, if the block is used for mechanical advantage multiplier... the head of the snatch block must be able to withstand the entire load from BOTH LEGS OF THE PULL... not the divided load on each leg. A quality brand snatch block usually has a 4:1 safety rating... but that doesn't mean it should be used in your calculations. The diameter of the sheave is also important on steel cable winch lines.. too small a pully sheave will bend the cable around too tight of an arch & damage it. Its not just a heavier duty bearing...its a larger sheave diameter to protect the cable/wire rope. Thanks for proving you can't just take advertising claims at their word... also.... equipment ratings are when the products are new & in perfect condition.. they deteriorate over time, exposure & use & neglect... excellent video... keep the educational lessons coming...
The winch rating is straight line pull no pullys correct? To me once start adding pully's to the equation you exceed the winch rating, hence asking for failure at some point in the rigging.
You talk a lot. 😂
@@miked19831988adding pulleys multiplies force, not load. Winch ratings are load ratings. You use a pulley to get more pull with the same amount of force. So as long as you only use the winch as a winch ,and not an anchor for the tackle you should be fine.
@@miked19831988 the winch rating is at the very last wrap where the drum/rope size is the smallest diameter at max voltage and amperage at a stall
Once you start adding line into the drum it’s starts to decrease fairly quickly
The more rope on the winch the faster it will pull in but pull less weight
Adding pulleys into the system decreases line tension
Putting less actual weight on the line
@@miked19831988 - adding pulleys has no impact on the winch itself, or the winch line. As an example to your question, suppose you have two pickup trucks facing away from each other - tailgate-to-tailgate with 10 feet between their rear bumpers. If you attach 3 pulleys to each bumper (total = 6) then thread a rope through the pulleys in a zig-zag pattern between the trucks, repeatedly, you will end up with several (7 to be exact) rope lines between the two trucks. If you stand in the bed of one truck and pretend you are a winch, and pull 100 pounds on the end of the line, the 100 pounds of tension exists on all 7 lines. This creates a force of 700 pounds that is pulling the two trucks together, even though you, the winch, is only pulling 100. You are not exposed to 700 pounds of force.
Do the same set up with what you consider to be the proper gear and show the load cell readings so that we can see the difference, Thank you!
We did on the original test video
Naturally it got flagged for hate speach as I suspect this one will too shortly
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC what recommended gear did you test on the original video?
@@brucescott-hf4xd in the original Video he demonstrated with both the offset rings and with snatch blocks. The 4-1 using snatch blocks gave 3600 lbs more pulling weight and didn't damage the winch line.
What brand snatch blocks do you recommend/use?
@@KetemaHarris At work we always used Mckissick blocks from Crosby Group.
I've been in the Tree Service Industry for the last 20 years. We regularly use Blocks, Rings, Friction lowering devices, varying size ropes, etc. I haven't looked into it for quite a while but there's a lot of great data, tests, reviews on the different types of ropes, blocks, slings, and so on. If I was to do rigging outside of Tree Work I would still feel more comfortable cross using the same gear I use at work rather than the company above. Like Sampson, Yale cordage, Teufelberger, Sterling. They have a full selection of different braids, Sizes, Static, Dynamic, Strands, Materials. Different sizes of Dyneema. All the blocks are regularly used daily in the industry absorbing sometimes up to an 800 pound log falling at freefall speed in able to slow it down from crashing to the lawn or potentially a structure. I'll regularly get my ropes and rigging gear through Sherrill Tree, Tree Stuff, US Rigging, WesSpur, Buckingham. You may pay a premium but at least you know it used daily, Regulated, and companies stand behind their product.
I have been mud bogging in central FL for 50 years, with many kinds of machines . I have had to put on my scuba gear to go to the bottom of a lake to hook up the cable!!! I don't mud bog any more, but I sure enjoy watching your videos! I have learned more in two weeks from watching them, than the 50 years of driving in places I should not be. You certainly make the best recovery videos on the internet !!!
I'm a big fan of project farm test videos. He has multiple tests per item. Very informative. I trust his results over all other claims. I'd be curious on how he tests the shackles and rings
So everyone with a dog in the fight needs to get together at one location and have Judge Todd from @projectfarm oversee the tests and settle this once and for all! I'm sick of the drama and everybody makes a convincing video
Todd would be able to once and for all put all this to rest. 🤣
He did do a video, Bubba came out on top.
@@kennethbolton951 I saw the rope test but I did not see a ring test. Does it show it's safe uses and breaking point?
If their claimed friction loss is about 8%, and you have it wrapped at three places then the estimated total friction should be 24%. While it is still less than what you measured, It also isn't as great of a difference as you claim.
24% of 10,000 pounds is 2,400 pounds. 8% of 10,000 lbs is 800 lbs. That's a huge difference.
No, let me try and explain
From winch you can have 10,000-30% around the ring now the line leaving the ring is 7,000
Now you go back to another ring
7000-30%
4900 leaving the second ring and goes back to the first ring
4900-30%
3430
You see how fast you loose power
This is what i was thinking, isnt it friction loss per contact w the ring?? So 8% per contact point??? In that case the numbers arent too far off,
I think what anon0moose is trying to say is they claim an 8% loss per friction point, since there is 3 friction points their expected result would be a 24% loss or 14154lbs pulled instead of what you got at 12348.
What was demonstrated in this video comes out to a 34% loss or 8.5% per line, not too far off from their updated claims.
The 34% can be calculated either by using the ratio that this system resulted in vs a zero loss sysyem (2.66/4). Or by calculating how much was pulled in total vs what a zero loss would have pulled in theory (12348 / (4×4656).
Either way using a normal pulley would have much less loss and not tear up your rope.
@@archeryhunter86- that’s incorrect
We have shown a math to be per contact point not 8% multiplied per point
I would add into the mix that these snatch rings and soft shackles have their place. For example the occaisional hobby use, but I would not reccomend them for sport or provessional recovery use. I keep a kinetic recovery rope, a few slings & shackles and a block (for directional change) in my on the road SUV, just like I keep basic tools and HD booster box/cables. 99 out of 100 times, I have used them to help others, but I am prepared to self rescue. Thanks to your videos, people can know the facts/limitations and at least have proper expectations.
@@leglamps you CAN use snatch rings, but you sure as hell don't rig them the way it is in the video plus you use a sleeved soft shackle to save the wear on it while looping the running line around the snatch ring the way it is supposed to be run.
Love your show. 26years Army H8. I watch mostly because I want to see this new technology and what it can do. I'm stuck in the past using my steel cables and block/tackle. Heavy but it still works. Keep up the good work, and if your ever near Hilliard and need a hand drop me a line!
I would trust traditional block and tackle with wire rope/cable over someone’s data that is not load proven and tested. Synthetic is good for certain things, and safer if it breaks, but steel cable/wire rope is tried and true.
nothing new about any of this, I was using stable braid ropes 35 years ago with blocks to pull stuck machinery out on the utility right of ways..
I know how you feel! The new fangled stuff seems nice, and I'd like to think the modern materials will get the job done, but I always fall back to what our ancestors have done for the last thousand years. Arborists use those rings a lot, but they're also dealing with relatively light loads. In that field, you see them using pulleys as much as they use the rings, and they always talk about the friction loss even in the best modern pulleys with best modern bearings and teflon coatings.
I plan to buy a kinetic recovery rope, between Bubba and Factor 55, which one do you recommend? Which is your pick. Thank you
Bubba rope performs better
We liked factor55 because they are also very good and more items to offer that we likes
Like winch hooks
Recovery rings
Fairleads
Load distribution plates
Splicing tools Ect
Where bubba rope has good ropes and soft shackles and that’s about it
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC thank you
Is that a wireless handheld load meter? Where can i get one? Thanks for this video, been looking for a comparison video of pulleys vs "wheels" I i watched years ago and found this one. Nice work!
Having been an offroader for 40 years common sense dictates if there is no roller involved all that force is friction and friction is heat and heat is destructive. The only way that ring would get used on my winch was if it had a heavy duty bearing in it so the outer ring can rotate around the center hub. I'm also surprised people think these kinetic ropes are new, I bought a ' Snatchem Strap" the original kinetic energy tow strap years ago and still have it. EDIT: The 4:1 set up creates even more friction other than winch line / ring because all the lines are trying to fight for the lowest part of the ring as well as move through the ring.
Great video.
This is my advice to new people to 4x4ing, in every town there is a local tow truck company, trucking companies or port, find out who their local suppliers are and by that stuff.
It will be local so easy to replace, it will be commercial use rated product and follow higher safety standards and usually much cheaper than boutique 4x4 companies.
Also don't be scared of metal shackles and hooks just learn how to use them correctly and never use a tow ball or hitch to winch or snatch.
There is a huge myth in the 4x4 industry
That metal flys when a winch cable or rope fails
It’s a lie it’s a sales tactic
Nothing flys except your winch rope or cable when it breaks
The metal shackles and metal snatch blocks are hooked or attached to a vehicle or attachment point
Only way those are flying is if the attachment point breaks or the metal shackles break
No matter what the coating is,
It'll have friction, use a regular pulley and everything will be fine,
Ropes will need to be replaced after a year or two of jobs, cables up to 5 years depending on usage and abuse of usage in my estimated opinion.
Great video. I was about to get a Yankum but decided to research.
Can/will you recommend a good kinetic recovery rope? I have a Ram 3500 diesel long bed. I do not tow or recover professionally but live in Colorado and also like to get into the mountains and sand dunes. So IF it get’s used it will be rarely but I like the good RIGHT stuff.
You guys do a good and thorough job, I compliment you. I work for no one & push no products. Three years ago (along with a snatch block) I got a Factor 55 'ring' & have used it in practice and in the field, many times. It's used with the winch line only and if (needed) a rope can be tied to the winch line in a 2/1 set up and the rope would run 'around it'. Casey L, months ago showed the slightly oval (Yankum) ring and had the line (rope) go around it and through it. I don't support the (through it) idea; for a small and light load it might work, but it puts tremendous friction and tension on a rope, under pressure.
Both Matt in Hurricane and Rory Irish in Moab (Trail Mater) use the rings in recovery. I've seen Rory use it if he wants a 2/1 set up or a side winch pull off a tree or rock, & he uses the ring with a soft shackle holding it. It's a quick and easy set up & efficiently works. I don't have data on the pull loads of ring vs. a traditional heavier snatch block. Anyway, thanks for your video and information. Beneficial.
What type of straps do you use?
Have you ever had an accident from breakage of either the tow strap or a shackle coming loose?
You use the cable that comes with the winch, right? Or do you replace it with a synthetic rope?
Do you use a kinetic rope at all?
I know I have a lot of questions but I'm trying to learn what and how for the best way for me to get my self unstuck when I go camping. Because I go alone, remote, & off tower service, Ha-ha!
I'm not very strong either, to much estrogen.
Thank you very much for your demonstrations.
Thank you for making this video. What ropes do you reccomend?
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. The heat generated by the friction of the line is spread out over the distance of the line running through the ring. The heat from the ring rotating on the soft shackle stays on that short section of soft shackle.
was in the fiber optic cable business in the 1970's and 80's. There were minimum bending radius for the cable. This is the same thing. If you bend it to sharply you ruin the product. You are correct. A larger bending radius is kinder to the produvt.
Thanks for this. What brands do you recommend? Just for tow strap, kinetic and soft shackles?
Factor55
Bubba Rope
Monster Rigging (not monster Offroad)
All American made all great products
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC Ok, now do the same demonstration with those products.
@@dafunkmonster we don’t have to
Those companies actually have test data on their product with actual testing
Instead of
“These are the best ever”
“Super super low friction”
You know because they are a legit company instead of lying just to push sales
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC Lol you're so transparent.
Embarrassing.
Common sense should tell you that pulling a rope through a fixed hole under thousands of pounds of force will generate an enormous amount of heat. I'm surprised the synthetic line doesn't completely melt while doing this. At the very least, the heat is lowering the breaking strength.
Can I ask what winch rope do you use and the rating?
Warn spydura 18k mts
What recovery ropes/equipment do you recommend ?
Just because the manufacturer says it's the same does NOT make it the same.👎
Old School here too. I use to run the old 60's Power Wagons with the Big Spool PTO Winches loaded with 3/4 inch wire rope and can't bring myself to trust the plastic rope for extremely critical stuff either. With the hook your talking over $1,000 to respool those winches with new wire rope today however you do end up with a true 16,560 lb working load and a minimum of 58,800 lbs break strength. Working load has always been Min Break Strength divided by 3.55. Synthetic Rope is fine for your running rigging on a sail boat or to lash your tent but wire is needed for critical applications. Yes Dynema is used in racing to save weight but its a compromise that requires more rigorous and frequent inspection and replacement.
Someone gave me an new 8 ton synthetic rope (was about as thick as your wrist) which I tried as an anchor for the truck instead of logging chain and on the first difficult stump pull (cutters didn't listen and cropped one closer to the ground than specified) it shredded like wet spaghetti and the winch wasn't straining at all on a single pull. Winch was 8 ton single/16 ton double pull. I saved that synthetic rope to show people who insisted I was too old fashioned and needed to go with plastic rope, why I wouldn't.
We did use some rope as a messenger line to pull the winch cables out over the longer distances.
The PTO winch powered by a 383 or 440 would stall theoretically well past the limits of the W200 logging truck it was mounted on. Never saw it stall even when it appeared like it was starting to tear things apart.
Pushing things to the Safety Rating means you no longer have any Safety Margins left for wear, tear or human errors.
Best!
In cranes and rigging it is difficult to get anyone to use wire rope any longer, at least in the bigger diameters. Anything bigger than 3/4" and the riggers don't know how to handle it any longer. I'm talking about slings and things. Synthetic rope is gaining popularity, but it has to be the high-end Dyneema or Spectra varieties. These are the 12-strand ropes (smaller diameters) which are stronger than EIPS wire rope for the same diameter. They are tough but I would never buy synthetic rope slings without a protective jacket - something to keep the dirt and rocks out. I bought at least five ø1-1/4" x 30' 2-leg bridles for a project in 2018 and I heard they were still in use. The slings were 1-1/4" Plasma 12 which is Cortland's 12-strand Dyneema rope. They had tight braided polyester jackets to completely cover the sling except where thick urethane coated sleeves protected the eyes. One eye attached directly to an alloy master link and the other went direct to a hook eye. No steel thimbles like you have with wire rope. Surprisingly enough they held up to regular use on a construction site. ø1-1/4" 12-strand Dyneema rope is good for 31,000# @ 5:1 safety factor. Had a bridle for each crane
Youd think theyd make a ring. That has a bearing/pulley for the outside diameter of the pulley. And have your soft shackle through the center. Id rather sacrifice a soft shackle then my winch line. But if its a frictionless bearing on the OD. The ring should not spin/rub the shackle anyway.
Am i missing something here? Has a product like im soeaking of already been made? If so. Why is it not the recommended choice over these friction rings? Just curious...
Isn't that a snatch block?
Thanks for the testing. When I build my setup. I’ll be using snatch blocks. Those rings just look like another gimmick
Are these set up instead of a traditional pulley?
What would be the advantage vs a pulley outside of moving parts?
They claimed these replaced traditional pulley blocks and are safer because their aluminum instead of steel
We disagree
weight and corrosion resistance.
@@iffykidmn8170 except these particular ones
Are massive so kinda deleted the weight saving part
@@iffykidmn8170 aluminum corrodes too !
No joke, I'm so glad I found this before ordering new recovery gear. My old strap is too worn and sun damaged to safely use. I'm going with Rhino for my kinetic rope and soft shackles. Now to find winch line.
My only question is. Is this a product issue. Or is it an operator issue who doesn’t understand physics and can’t tell what destroys the rope
Is that grey stuff coming off the rope and grey stuff on the donut just teflon coating? Or is it actually strands or fiber of the rope? It appears that its a coating that was used on the rope and not actually the fibers themselves?
Actual fibers
We purchased a thermal imaging camera and will be repeating these test under thermal imaging
It will show the heat build up during the pull with exact temps
Thanks for taking the time to show something that will make or break one's investment... or even their life. 2.65:1 is a far cry from 4:1, putting far more strain on parts if one is relying on the math to for a vehicle recovery.
Just makes me more convinced to stick with my wire rope winch, steel snatch blocks, and HYDRAULIC winch (100% duty cycle)...
I worked in underground mines using cable tuggers and slushers for excavation and also worked hooking logs in PNW. This soft shackle and synthetic rope isnt made for high use or friction use. Cable is king as are heavy rated D-rings. The large diameter recoil yank ropes for recovering stuck passenger vehicles are good but synthetic cable gets dirty easy and wears out qyuckly. Its best to get quality cable thsts oversized and heavy d-ring shackles. Its what us used in logging, mining, and real rigging.
I actively look through marketing hype, I think it's safer and doing so saves a bunch of money.
I like your scientific approach vs their "trust us, we know what we're doing" marketing. They themselves should be the ones putting out these kinds of videos not someone having to correct them.
"They" won't do that because they're getting free promo products from the companies in return for positive feedback on their videos.
@@RealJeep they do typically get 30% commission as well
I know when I rejected yankums sponsorship offer it was 30% at the time
It's not a scientific approach.
The only time he even showed us the load cell was to try and refute the math on a 4:1 snatch block setup (which Yankum explicitly warns against doing for amateurs).
He didn't show us how much tension he put in the ropes in order to induce failure due to friction.
I 100% agreee that standards are not subjective to random changes. In the lifting/hoisting world we are not allowed to rig with straps/blocks/spreaders, etc that does not have the the WLL & safety factor clearly labeled on the item. People who have never witnessed the explosive forces involved in a failure do not have a clue the damage that can occur. As my dad used to say, you cannot just put another quarter in and start over.
So a different rope or block or both what's the fix I have 12k with steel cable in the rear. I have electric in the front with synthetic. What should I do for the rear keep it steel or??
A standard spinning pulling block is the best for both steel and synthetic
Steel last longer and breaks less often
But rat nests easier on the winch and likes sto stab your hands from broken wires sticking out
While synthetic is easier to handle and dosnt cut your hand
The sun kills them and they break more often
Why are they trying to reinvent the wheel? Friction loss is one thing, but those silly rings are tearing up the winch line leading to a DANGEROUS situation! 😳
Thank you for the heads up !!!
Out of interest, does the Pullin force increase when you stop winching? Because there should be some "creeping" of the rope on the friction surfaces. As you stopped the video, we cant tell if numbers climbed after stopping to winch. In a Static situation, friction losses should not matter....
It’s been a while since college, but I believe the multiplication of pulling force only happens between two pulleys. Simply going from one vehicle to another with one pulley is simply called a redirection, and doesn’t increase pulling force. Only between pulleys is force amplified by 25%.
We would love to educate you on this if you truly want to learn
But this is not a redirect in this video and the scales do not lie
I bet if you look at some of the marine / sailing low friction rings from companies like Antal or Harken you'll see a bit less friction in the system, simply because they look like they have better low friction coatings on the rings.
Very good video, informative you did a good job explaining!!
I've had good luck with the Voodoo dynamic recovery rope. I got a 30' on sale for $60. When it's time to swap my winch lines I'll probably upgrade from my Chinese rope to Voodoo and give them a try.
try using a FLIR to see the temperatures on/around the rope near the shackle ring
Thermal cam will be here tomorrow
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC fantastic! gives instant visual ... interesting to see the results!!
@@bigrollinghome2091 we will be doing it on factor55 rings a few Amazon options
A few snatch blocks
And the yankum ring
We will also be doing a friction loss test during all of it as well
Commonsense may play a roll here..and I get it If ya don't know ya don't know until its too late. thanks for your channel and sharing hope it will keep some one safe..Peace .. and happy new year..
😂😂😂 definitely buying one now
would that mean a roller fairlead would be better suited for a synthetic winch line than the low profile fairleads that everyone is running with no rollers?
Yes
We are going to test a new one designed for synthetic
Google “hawse pro” it’s a low profile roller
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC why not just use a regular profile roller which would have a larger radius bend? new not something that has already been marred using wire rope.
Am I the only one that notices the rings being used weird. I’ve never used them like that.
Of course there is friction loss! Regular snatch blocks, even when clean and properly greased have friction loss. Friction=heat !
Does little slide pulleys look cool but I still prefer snatch blocks with pulleys in on work better and safer
I would never use this configuration! It is not safe! Safety is top priority. Letting others know to improve safety is commendable. Any professional would take advise to improve safety
Get over it. He severely smoked you, and your jealous nose is beyond bent. You tried to play in the major leagues and failed. It's ok. Becky accepts you the way you are.
This is a different Casey
Casey ladelle is the product pusher from yankum
Not Casey off road
That rope looks like it is made from Dyneema or Spectra material.
These are two brand names for the same chemical compound, ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene (UHMWPE).
They are used in many applications which require zero stretch, but they have a low melting point, which you have discovered.
They do not like to be dragged across a fixed surface or they melt.
Use a real snatch block or a large sheave with bearings.
**"Don't Use Factor 55 Recovery Rings***
Robert Pepper's test demonstrates how much efficiency loss the Factor 55 rotating recovery ring had as compared to the Yankum sliding recovery ring. Size matters... Factor 55's rotating recovery ring diameter at line return is tiny as compared to almost every brand including the dime store variety. In the 2 to 1 test there was only 2 percent difference between the Yankum and Factor 55. In the 3 to 1 test they performed exactly the same. That's damn sad when you compare the Factor 55 Rotating Recovery Ring to the Saber Rotating Recovery Ring performing within 1 or 2 percent of standard Steel Snatch Blocks with bearings.
Now when we are talking about convenience on 2 and 3 to 1 pulls the Yankum wins hand down with the ability to slide extensions through the ring dramatically speeding up recovery ring recoveries.
Funny you say wins hands down 🤣
When in Roberts video clearly states it’s the lowest performing ring in all test
Do a 3-1 with sabers ring or a snatch block
Out performs yankums 4-1
Needing less line and less parts of line to have a greater pulling power
Would win hands down
Trying to say yankums wins hands down because you need 2 extra parts of line and extensions to reach them extra 2 parts of line is just peer and utter nonsense
Now we will agree on the don’t use f55 rings
Because we don’t use them
One huge advantage of f55 rings saber rings and Amazon junk tho
Is they don’t ruin your winch line
So every ring other then yankums wins hands down
If it doesnt roll,it has too much friction,period... We used these plasma lines on towboats to replace the big wire rope winch lines,and every place we had a button that they went around and didnt roll,ot melted the lines,and these were like 5k bucks at the time. We also started using sleeves everywhere it touched literally anything, because these ran across the deck and idiots would drag things right over them... They didn't realize how much better it was to have these instead of dragging around 100 foot wire ropes...
Nice to know! Thanks for the practical research. When is 4 to 1 not 4 to 1?
Your setup seemed to prove that it's not only a safety problem, single use of a rope due to damage is a =costly= problem to someone using Yankum's advice. Shame on you, Yankum.
Thank you for this video! Can you tell me the proper rigging set up that you would use? From winches, ropes to snatch blocks to tree savers et. al? I trust someone who provides video evidence disputing rigging claims vs someone who promotes incorrectly. Thank you! Oh, you get a sub!
Kinetic rope
Best - Bubba Rope
Good factor55 and Monster rigging
Soft shackles
Best bubba rope gator jaw
Good factor55 or monster rigging
Hard shackles
Best Crosby
Pulley blocks (snatch blocks)
Best safer x-tract
Good warn or badlands apex
Tree savers
Best factor55
Good bubba rope
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC Thank you so much! And a very Merry Christmas to you and your family and friends!
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC Curious of your opinion on Master Pull products? I've always had good luck with their stuff, however not using it anywhere to the degree of your work. Don't see the brand mentioned very often.
@@M1028CUCV I have zero experience with that product but we don’t mind testing them out and giving feedback if you have a specific product in mind
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC I personally use their superline winch line, soft shackles, and KRR in various sizes. Will soon have a few of their snatch blocks that I got a good deal on, interested to see how they perform.
Rolling friction is always going to be significantly better than sliding friction
Why did the Factor 55 ring visually burn damage your winch line on your initial single turn pull test. Casey's single turn pull didn't result in visual burn damage. Then when you used a Yankum ring on a single turn pull, just like Casey, there was no visible burn damage. Yes the rope came out flattened, but no visible burn damage. Again your test with your equipment was significantly burn damaged. This tells me Factor 55 rings create more heat and damage or your winch line is inferior, melting at a lower temperature.
Can you do this test on all the other recovery products? I was looking at yankum products, but now I'm kinda worried about other brands too now. Am I better off just using a recovery strap I got at the home improvement store like I have been for years?
Yes we actually purchased 5 different brands to show the loss and heat of them all. But then Ropers pepper picked up the test
He does a better job showing numbers so I’ll put a link for his channel
Keep an eye out for the yankum video on his channel
youtube.com/@L2SFBC?si=8WLSTMrTT2WZKnO6
@offroadrecoveryFL awesome, thank you. I will check out his channel.
Also, does the heat still matter in colder weather? Does it heat up as much say when it's like 0F with windchill of -30, compared to 70F?
@@aarondhermanson during the summer when it close to 100° out here
We can’t use any rings more then like 3 feet
During the winter 🥶 we can used them for half a pull at a time before they are too hot
So we just use pulley blocks
They build no heat and have the best performance
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC "Yes we actually purchased 5 different brands to show the loss and heat of them all."
So where's this testing video?
@@dafunkmonster we guess you cannot read very well
If you read the second half of that comment would show you a link to a video 🤦♂️
Why would anyone try to slide a rope through a stationary "ring" and think that you're not going to damage your rope?
Thanks for the information!
Hey Matt !!! Did you do the same testing with ""FACTOR 55 "" Rope & Soft Shackles ??? Can't say enough about whatever products being used & ""SAFETY 1st !!!!! 👍👍👍👍👍
We did on the original test video the one that got removed for copyright
We melted a winch rope in 2 feet with them not spinning
We did a solid non stop 50’ pull overheated a winch
And had minor damage on a soft shackle of a spinning f55 ring
One thing to note just like the tire on your car
The outside moves greater distance them then inside
So your tread on the tire will move a greater distance then the axle in the center
We also did a friction loss test on the spinning rings
They were more then we liked so we continue to use standard pulley blocks most of the time
I’ll go back and check I think they were 10-15% loss
Where a spinning pulley block is around 6%
Sorry just reread your comment f55 does not make or have winch rope
They only have soft shackles which we use
And we use the 1/2” ones most of the time with a 12,000lb WLL
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC would like to see the same pull setup with spinning snatch blocks to see what the true 4 to 1 final pull is
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC OKs !! Thanks for the info !!🤔🙄
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC Well that answerers a lot of questions for sure !!!🤔😏
Keep it up. Your 100% right. Never used the exact product but have use'd rope of the same make up. It Melts with friction or enough strech because of heat
Why am I not seeing more videos of these failures? I have not seen these types of failures in other videos. I understand the increase in resistance, but is it enough to cause the damage? Have you been in contact with Yankum Ropes? Seems to me they should be aware. If it fails that badly and quickly I would expect there to be alot of backlash and angry customers. If there are other people with same kind of failures please post videos. Thanks, Charles
Yes we have been in contact with Alan
He said any questions about this should be directed to Casey Ladelle
Then you go ask Casey he gets mad 😡
And says he’s a movie maker not a professional
So good luck
Since this video they have stopped all promotions of this ring and went back to promoting the ropes
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC Thanks for the response.
I went over to the Yankum website and they show the off set ring still being used the way you say and show causing damage. Why would they still sell a product that would cause damage and risk safety? You brought up Casey, so I went over and watched his video and did not see the damage you have demonstrated in you video. How do you think he is faking his video to show no damage?
Thank you, Charles
@@chawesspe3 it’s very easy to hide stuff for camera sake
Especially when the person who made the ring is your best friend
I recommend doing your own research and make an educated decision on them before just purchasing them
We have contacted
Samson ropes
Cortland
Holloway Houston
Aviant
Yale cordage
JM rigging
Certified Slings
These are manufacturers that make the winch lines
Zero of them approve the use of dyneema rope for any stationary device due to the low heat range of dyneema rope
One company said you can do it in an emergency but would require a deduction of rating of 50%
Better be 100% certain when you say stuff like that. If you are not 100% correct, you just violated the law and he can come and get you in the legal system. I doubt highly that you are 100% correct. You really should delete this post, and be smarter, you don't need to go after a person, you can show the info and not mention names and just do a review. @@OffRoadRecoveryLLC
"Why am I not seeing more videos of these failures?"
Because those people didn't load the absolute shit out of the setup with a come-along in order to induce rope failures.
Friction causes heat..heat causes rope damage. To save your rope the rope needs to roll without causing heat. That's why roller shelves are used on crane blocks. So if you want to prolong the life of your cable use a snatch block that has a roller in it. Roll up your line properly in the drum. Don't crush your rope.
Than what should I do I’m new to this I need help and this is the best form for me to understand where and how to spend my starting funds.
Use a pulley block also called a snatch block
A good one that’s not too expensive is a badlands apex snatch block
I use Yankum ropes, but not the rings. Just the soft shackles and ropes to recover. Not had a issue at all. I pull vehicles out of sand and mud. I do not use a winch. still the best kinetic rope on the market for what i recover. Also only one made in USA. I do not support China when i can avoid it. You all can buy from China, China is smart to get Americans to buy their products over their own country. People say China is not smart, yet look at all the things we buy from them. Kinda smart. People refuse to buy American products. Kinda dumb.
Although the soft shackles and ropes
Are good
We use to support the company
But your completely wrong on 2 things
1 bubba ropes kinetic ropes have been tested and proved to perform better
2 they are not the only ones made in the USA
Bubba rope is also made in the USA 🇺🇸
And
Factor55
Bubba rope is made here in florida
Factor55 ropes are made in Texas while their hard products (hooks fairleads Ect.) are made
In Idaho
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC Yankum is still the best rope for my applications. i bought mine a few years ago. 7/8th 30ft 250$. Worth every penny. With 2 soft shackles. I have seen so many Rhino's and bubba rope's break here on the beach, with damage to vehicles. They just snap. I have yet to break the Yankum. I have my video's posted on our local 361 off road recovery facebook page. I have pulled a Freightliner off the beach, and many full size RV without any issues. Where many Rhino's and Bubba's have failed. I have not seen any 55s.
There are several guys on the 361 using f55 ropes
I did forget one other
Monster rigging is also American they make theirs in Arkansas
And Bubba has been in business for a long time I bought my first rope from them in 2012 and knew about them long before that
My only disappointment with this video? @5:11 when you started the test I saw two regular snatch blocks on the ground and assumed that you'd show the test with both the rings and the snatch blocks for comparison. I'll have to look back at your old videos and see if you have a comparative test.
Yes
Two regular blocks with only 3 parts of line had a greater output
Then yankums doing a 4 part of line
Know it alls 🤦🏾♂️
The laws of physics don't change because you put yankum or any brand on the rope.
Of course that amount of friction is going to damage synthetic rope.
There is some science behind this...
Nothing to do with Yankum or their products...
It has everything to do with using these things incorrectly, and or, misstating the results.
Yankum should talk to someone like me.
I'm a professional QA Engineer.
After watching your video, I have to say, KUDOS!
You did an excellent job!
Not much different from what I would do in a lab environment (more controlled elements)...
But "real world" testing is good also.
"Sure, it does X in the lab, but what does it do in the real world?"
Yep, that is one of the questions I ask. And one of the tests I run.
So, keep up the good work!
Keep these companies honest!
I have been designing another "snatch ring" that will put less stress on the rope, but it still shouldn't be used in the center, like they do.
Also, using a soft shackle with a nylon outer covering/mesh can help it last longer, but it isn't a complete solution.
What I wouldn't give to be able to test these set-ups with a variety of ropes, rings, and more.
So what does everyone use, And why?
Project Farm did some really good test between Kinetic ropes.
Yes they did
So your saying ditch the RTT all together and go with traditional snatch blocks that spin????
Yes
May I ask what brand of Traditional Snatchblock you might recommend?@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC
We use both
Warn
And
Badlands apex
Style blocks both work very well
The warn is slightly smaller a slightly better quality
But also double the price
If you want the best it will be safer x tract but they are not worth the money in our opinion
They are $400 ish
A good year ago you made a video that is still online, demonstrating a very similar product by Factor 55, that you - as you state in the video - sell at your own online store (you did at that time anyways). In that video you say that this is better than a snatch block in various ways. How is this Yankum product different? The drawbacks mentioned here should be the same in the F55, as far as I can tell anyways. And my conclusion from this current video would be the same as yours: that a snatch block is better than these rings in pretty much every aspect. Also, if you are working with Factor55 - by the looks of your current website it looks like you very much do, it would be good to mention it explicitly in videos like this one, just for transparency.
Other than that, great work man!
Factor 55 rings are much better then Yankum ring
But factor55 rings also suck for performance
We no longer use any rings
We are not sponsored by factor55 we are not affiliated with them we just use their gear
Minus the ring
Interesting video. I was always taught winch ropes etc are consumables just like recovery ropes so they should be replaced all the time but we know this isn't how the world works and only a lab can give you the real results but doesn't mean it works in real world
They can be used for several years when maintained and used correctly
Or
Used crap products and replaced every single use
A good rope is about $579
You can decide if everytime you use your winch if that’s an acceptable price to throw away
Because the guy you like watching on RUclips said it was great
Your choice
Not a big fan of soft shackles or the ring. The only time I would use a soft shackle is for joining straps. As far as the ring maybe a change of direction, but at the end of the day I will stick with Crosby shackles and steel snatch blocks. I think soft shackles have become the most overrated piece of recovery gear.
At 3018 it showed 7665.. Which is 39%.. So as you add more weight, the percentage was gradually falling. Which is why you made up the arbitrary number of 4500 lbs and stopped there; rather than testing it to the full 12k lbs capacity of the winch that most people use. And yes, it's common to sink a truck in the mud and leave it over night and you come back the next day with the ground frozen and you're absolutely buried and frozen in. It's not uncommon and you would certainly need to add more force than 4500 lbs... And it's very common to need to tie off your tow truck to a tree with your front winch for a stronger anker. All these guys even put winches out each SIDE of their tow trucks for that very reason. So I like that you're trying to go at this scientifically-- but you're just as shady yankoomz's tactics when you're selecting situations to better your argument rather than to show reality........... Also, you just showed that the rings work well for a 4 rope setup and yet you didn't' show the rings then and talk about damage? Why is that??? You can't have it both ways. You winch with low numbers to fudge your percentage numbers-- and then you pull very high weight to burn the rope. Why didn't' you do both tests at the same time? I'd like to see what you were actually winching when you burned your ropes too. I bet you were winching the skid steer or something ridiculous. Why didn't you have the load cells hooked up when you burned the rope?
Actually the higher the winch pull the more friction
We did have a video posted with yankums rings damaging the rope with load cells it got removed for hate speach 😂
We are redoing the video with a thermal camera soon
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC Well again. By your own video footage. When you pull 3k lbs, it's only 2.5x the mechanical advantage.. Yet when you keep pulling to 4500.. it jumps to 2.65x. As you add more weight, the friction becomes a smaller and smaller factor comparatively. Granted you will have more nominal heat-- but the percentage heat loss will be lower and lower. When you do your next test, don't stop at the 4500 lbs... Tie your truck to a tree and pull the 4 rope setup with the max capacity of the winch.. Then lets look at those numbers and see the REAL heat loss. You know you stopped the footage at 4500 lbs for a reason; and that's because it gave you the biased footage that you wanted. But if people are stuck-- they will use their winch to the max capacity-- whatever it takes. So test accordingly next time. I'll sub and look forward to it... and I'll go watch some of your other testing
@@calholli I suspect the rope was still stretching, which is why the % loss seemed smaller as the winch pulled harder. It's a confounding variable that can only be eliminated by pulling until the rope is fully stretched. So, I agree that he should have put more force on it, but it's not because the friction is less as the force increases.
@@joedunn1109 He's pulling 4500 lbs.. that rope is full stretched for sure by then. And it's not that the friction goes down; it's just a diminishing return. The surface area is still the same and you're already getting a good bit of friction out of it--- but as you pull a lot more force, the friction isn't increasing anywhere near the same rate. So I agree with you that it will have at least a little more friction as you pull more force. But it's just a relatively smaller percentage of loss as you get up into the higher numbers.
If you only pulled 100 lbs of force, the friction would be a huge percentage of your losses, relatively. You could even feel the friction in your hands if you were pulling it. Because the power is barely even overcoming the friction. But as you get into a higher and higher force, the friction becomes less and less relevant; because again, you can only get so much friction out of a small area; there isn't really that much in contact around those rings. There comes a point where the friction is maxed out, and from there and above --- you can only get "wear or destruction of materials; either the rope or the ring.
That's why it's called the "coefficient of friction": because of the changing ratio between the force applied and the friction resulting from it. It's not a linear handshake.. It's not directly proportional and varies drastically depending on the type of surface. Like most things in physics, it's on a curve up to a point where it completely changes states. -- Which in this case, would be plasticity: or in other words, the rope melting.
Think of it this way-- if you pulled with your hands at 100 lbs of force, we would get X' friction.. If I multiplied that by 10 and pulled at 1000 lbs of force-- do you think it would be 10x the friction? Of course not; It would likely only be 2x the friction at most. Yes they do both increase, just at different rates; and as you multiply the force, the friction falls further and further behind and less and less of a factor as a percentage of the LOSS.
Look-- the point is, he stopped it at 4500 lbs on purpose. In the other footage he pulled the rope until it was melting, so he's not afraid to damage the rope for a video. The fact is, the numbers were starting to go against the point he was trying to make-- so he kept it at a lower force to maximize the percentage loss of the friction and make it look worse.. Which is fine, whatever--- you showed your reasoning. I just think we should stick to the facts and show ALL the science, not just the specific situation that gets your point across. cheers
I’m not sure of the origination of these rings but they’ve been in the arborist industry for years.(similar version) We use them FOR friction to lower wood instead of using blocks in some instances. When I saw these in a static winching setup I thought it was a joke. Shame on them for marketing these the way they did. Good video 👍🏻
So the math works out to around 27% loss on average (so very close on that 30% estimate, nice) with this setup. It would have been nice if you’d tested 2:1 as that would be a more direct result for efficiency. In rope rescue stuff we typically estimate 50% loss going nylon rope around a carabiner so 27% seems believable with lower friction materials. The damage seems concerning. I should go watch that video. I’m assuming there’s a lot of heat build up here and you start glazing the rope and then get other fun effects especially as debris builds up on the bearing surface. Good test.
hope you didn't think my comments where hate mail 🤣appreciate the video response, especially the fact both lines/ winch ropes are made of the same material, and are not rated for this amount of friction/heat
still curious about the pricey material winchline/ friction vs durability... technosomething idr tbh
but most importantly casey, who i like's videos, does need to remove his... this is showing why this can be very hazardous on the 2'nd, 3rd? try once degraded, further degrades... snaps, big problem
Nope wasn’t you
yakum should be grateful and thankful to you for the findings. they should take this opportunity that you just presented and go back to the drawing board to develop a better product. alot of ppl review products for monetary gains and do not care about the actual performance or safety of a product. i appreciate your time and effort to enlighten us. yakum should really take this opportunity to work with you so as to develope a better and stronger product.
Yankum "Should" but the question is, would they get butt hurt if their products didn't measure up to the hype? They can make these claims and pull numbers and stats out of thin air because nobody holds their feet to the fire. .. Until now.
Excellent video! All rope has a bend radius. So
if the rope bends to much around a smaller object it damage the rope. So you need a ring that is the correct size or larger than needed so you don't damage the rope. It depends on the diameter of the rope being used. At least I thought that was pretty common knowledge, and for a company to say that's is the way to use our equipment then clearly they don't have a clue what they are doing. Or they don't care about there customers and want them to break there stuff or get hurt so they have to buy new stuff.
Yes there is a huge plethora of info regarding ropes and such
You have d/d for terminated ends
You have d/d minimum size for pulleys for moving sections of rope
Then it depends on braided ropes or twisted ropes
Then different materials have different heat points
Different friction coefficients
All kinds of factors go into play
And some guys still stand by if the tag 🏷️ has 1 rating
Then no matter how you use it then it’s always rated for that
Even in a chocker hitch
Or a basket
Or if you tie a knot in it
Because the tag stated one rating
Your information is just as important for the winching community as what Gale Banks did for the differential cover community. Banks took it further to offer a what he promotes as a better part because he has the ability to prototype and manufacture something.
As for me, I'll choose a rotating wheel in the form of a snatch block any day over a friction ring.
I’m curious to know if you’ve scrutinized Factor 55 in the same way and what you came up with?
We have tested many brands and many products and reported back to manufacturers for improvement
None and I mean none have been shady lying sacks of crap like this one
But yes we have tested factor55 rings and got about 8% friction loss on a rotating recovery ring
Which we agree is too high for a multi part line greater then 3 for us
So we still use a lot of regular pulley blocks
Currently we carry 4 warn blocks and 2 badland apex blocks and we still carry 3 f55 rings
They do come in handy on certain things where a block will not
Example
If we have 400’ of line out using 2 extensions and our full winch line
How you connect the winch lines together
Either a cow hitch
Or
Soft shackle
Neither option will go through a block
So you have to play hot Patato with lengths at connecting points during the pull
Where if you use a ring
It will hit the ring and and continue to rotatate around it
Not falling off not damaging anything
And allowing you to continue pulling without having to re rig
We spoke with Factor55 and they are designing a new ring as we recommended to make it larger diameter on the outside and keep the same diameter on the inside
This will change the torque required to rotate the ring on the soft shackle and decrease the friction loss to 4-5% instead of 8-10%
We continue to say a standard pulley block provides the best possible performance
With the lowest chance of failure
People will argue that the rope has a small chance of squeezing between the pulley and the cheeks
But the chance of the rope falling off everyone’s donut 🍩 during a slack is about 99%
Except factor55’s ring which has rubber fingers to hold the rope inside the ring groove during slack which works about 75% of the time
So are the factor55 the best donut on the market? Yes
Performs the same as most other rings
But has the best rope retaining ability
Causes no damage
Are they better then a regular block
Absolutely not
Hope this helps
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC really if you go up in sheave size and use a prusik knot you can get the line through a block no problem. learned that trick working on wooden rollercoasters. its nice to have a 2:1 when trying to pull a 20ft 6x6 up 100ft the prusik knot does not increase the line diameter very much so it feeds through nicely.
Would love to see a straight up test between Factor 55 and Yankum, starting with new line and soft shackles in just a 2:1 configuration. Then do a measured break test of each winch line and each shackle. It’s obvious there is going to be friction and Ff55 puts more fiction in the same spot on the shackle and Yankum puts friction on the winch line in 6 inch increments. It would be great to see how the friction actually translates to durability. Is it a show stopper or is it acceptable for recreation 4x4 use? Might as well do a control test with soft shackle and pulley block and do break test of those. This is the best way to objectively determine performance. Whether or not someone wants to do business with a particular company hinges on product performance and a whole slew of other factors. Both are US / Idaho based companies and would love to see a head to head test.
@@scotthallenberg3575 we included those tests in the original video that got flagged and removed
You would assume that the soft shackle would heat up and burn
Mainly because yankum keeps telling you that
But during our test that was not the case
Was there damage?
Yes
We did a full 100 foot winch line pull with a 2-1 non stop (way over recommended winch run duty cycle)
The shackle was glazed but had less damage then yankums ring provided with a 3 foot pull
Why??
The inside radius of the ring moves much slower then the outside of the ring
Has a factor
The second factor is
The aluminum builds the heat not the soft shackle
And with the ring rotating it heats up during contact but then quickly moves out of the contact zone while rotating and quickly cools down before making the full rotation
So after the full 100’ pull the entire ring is hot 🥵
Where yankums does not move concentrating the heat at the exact spot the rope has to make contact
When we did the full 100’ test the rotation ring was at 125 degrees during a 92 degree day
While using yankums the contact area reached over 160 degrees in less then 10 feet
@@OffRoadRecoveryLLC too bad the video was taken down. Would have liked to see it.
This really is seemingly all factual, I haven’t verified every single sliver of info either however yankum lying about the specs of products is enough to turn me off and any cs that just refers you to a video without the willingness to transfer you or doesn’t walk you thru it wouldn’t get my biz anyhow
So who do you recommend using instead?
My Question also.
@@dl3553 Ya'll should read the comments before commenting...
you should do that using other snatch blocks. and show the difference
Can't understand why you would want to drag your rope over or around anything, ever. Just because it makes no sense at all unless you are desperate.
It's so obvious! You can't rub a robe over any hard object without the robe being damaged.
I’m working on my JKU setting it up. I’m getting the stuff you use! It might be more money but I’ll never put it to the test like you do!
Don't know how you ended up getting recommended on my feed. But you show what I suspected the first time I saw those videos on the rings. I'm too old to be swayed by the new and shiny without real lab testing.
I carry only lift rated blocks, shackles, hooks and wire rope in my truck. I know what they are certified and rated for. I know how to maintain them. I know how to do the math when rigging.
I cringe at most of what I see online. It is worse what I see in the desert around here.
Most people have not the slightest idea of the forces and energies they are dealing with.
We have argued back and fourth about the testing
They said it was lab testing and they could not break it
They were trying to pull it apart
They did no friction lab test
Casey was their testing
Good job some body has to say it I went threw two winch lines the same way
Great explanation
Very good, I believe you may be right, but do like that type of material better than cable.
Fantastic debunking! Getting to the truth is what is important! Nice work! You are a man of integrity!
I would say use the best gear you can afford, use it safely.
It might be cool to see these tests with a thermal camera.
I might just buy one just to do it