How to Thin Water Borne Paint for Spraying, Measuring Viscosity
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- In my previous video, “Mixing Paint & Filling a Spray Gun, Small Shop Spray Painting Part V” I simply guessed when I thought I had it thin enough. View at: goo.gl/5Rc5x1 In this video, I show you how to measure the viscosity of paint, using a #4 Ford Cup. This along with some 2.0mm gravity feed guns is available on my Amazon store at www.budmanproductions.com or directly at astore.amazon.c... I selected the guns simply by reading the star ratings and honed in on the ones that people liked the best within the price range of not over $50.00.
Ron, Your advice on using a Ford Cup to measure viscosity and how to thin latex paint was exactly what I needed. Thank You! It's great to get advice from someone that knows what they are doing. You helped make it a great day.
Great video! Thank you for the advise. I have painted most of my life used airless, but air sprayers are a very different deal. I came across this job that requires air sprayer and just wasn’t sure about percentage wise thinning and you came with the perfect answer. Thank you sir!
Thank you so much for this video. You’re sweet voice along with your mix of scientific and DIY knowledge made me feel like I was watching my dad. He was always the one I went to with questions. I am so grateful you were there to give me the answers today when he no long can.
This video really helped me. After some unsatisfactory trials, I was about to give up on using my Harbor Freight gravity feed paint sprayer to paint cabinets I was building. Thinning the paint according to Ron's instructions made a huge difference and gave me the smooth finish I had hoped for. I was able to spray primer, latex paint, and water-base polyurethane without any problems.
Going to do this to paint my home.
Thank you so much! I am about to spraypaint for the first time in my life. I am excited.
Be well.
Sincerely,
Alicia from Sweden
Ron, I am so glad that you put this up. I come from automotive too, took some training but never painted for $. It makes me have to be precise. It's just how I am.
So to bring this together. You recommend 20 to 30 seconds to empty a Ford #4 cup.
And adding 25+ % you got around 45 seconds.
Latex paints can be different between types. I think I will go 40% and check. If it's too thin I can add paint to fatten it up. And if it's still too thin, well 5% at a time.
Also, I have been taught and found it true that to really get a good mixture on latex paints it is best to pour the paint back and forth between two containers. I have a drill driven stirring tool too. I'd think that if I keep the tool down in the paint that it won't aerate.
BTW I have a DeVilbiss FLG4 (Finish Line) which is considered low level pro or good level DIY. It came in a kit with a few tips, biggest is 1.8, but I bought the next available which is a 2.2.
I agree with you on the gun mounted oil water separator. I have a cheap separator regulator on my wall from Harbor Freight and a line mounted one just before my gun regulator. Was able to do a fender on the wife's car one Sunday morning when it was 70 degrees. I waited for the weather for that!
I'll use your info and want to remind people to filter any paint before it goes in your gun.
Excellent approach by measuring the viscosity. One thing I've found that makes things easier is to use a measuring cup that provides three ratio thinning gauges. The reason for the three ratio is that I usually add not only water, but Floetrol to the latex. For instance, most of the time when spraying latex paint with my HVLP turbine-based system (it's a Fuji 5-stage turbine) is to use the 5-1-1 gauge: 5 parts latex; 1 part water and 1 part Floetrol. Sorry for not providing the viscosity reading from my Ford cup, but if memory serves me, it was around the 25 second range.
Again, great video.
Thank you for this comment! It was very helpful to me.
I've been spraying my motorcycle tank with water-based paint...at least trying to. After experimenting with thinning (distilled water), I got it thin enough to try it out. My first coat of high gloss, cream white went on smooth and even in some areas, but less so in others. I was also surprised that in no time the paint would dry in the nozzle till only air would spray out.
Conclusions and observations;
1.) 2 mm nozzle sounds about right for water-based paints and I think it's because of the way it actually dries in the nozzle, blocking flow.
2) air pressure should be set a low as possible while still maintaining flow and spread. I'm playing around with 25-30 psi on vertical test pieces...may try 20 psi.
3) when everything is right, ie., viscosity, nozzle size, air pressure, and ambient temperature, the w-b paint is great. The fast drying and non-toxic qualities make it enjoyable to work with. However, get one of the above parameters wrong and you'll be sanding back and respraying the same piece again and again.
I wish everybody explain things like this gentleman. Cheers!
+1 to that
Thank you been looking for this information for years like a dummy I never thought to check RUclips lol 😆
We used a improvised Ford cup at a place I use to work but when I would ask people at paint and big box stores they didn't have a clue what I was talking about!
I didn't really know my self lol
I just knew paint couldn't be to thick or to thin and if doing a large project you want every can constant!!!
Excellent video. Great explanations. No mumbling and wasted time.
One of the best, informative, to the point videos I have seen. Thanks!
Very helpful. I've been sprayiong with wagner airless plus and found 30 to 40secs to give an excellent mix. Thats using Armstead Contract emulsion paint on walls and ceiling. About 2l of water added to 5 litres of paint. Need to stir vigouously for at least 5 mins to get homogeneity.
People should just keep in mind that many domestic waterbased products are not meant to be thinned beyond about 10-15 percent. Check the can! Good vid!
Great video & thanks for NOT having loud, stupid, annoying music like many other videos. 👍👍👍
Thanks Ron also for using metric. not sure why anyone would use imperial but i'm still learning at 63
Thanks. very helpful. I'm spraying ceilings and wondered about thinning latex.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!! This “recipe” was PERFECT. You saved me so much time. I used a paint Valspar Latex plus Primer, 500 ml + 125 ml of water. Bang on
Thank you for time and production of this video..... I am making a pallet wood mini fence that will be portal for my camper so my yorkies can go out and enjoy the sun.... going to look on your channel for additional ideas for making fences that look nice and can detach thanks again
Such a cool old guy. Hope all is well Ron. Really appreciate your videos.
Thanks, Ronnie
Hey, He's not old...He's youth challenged...
I do have some software that will take the wrinkles out . . . maybe I should start using it, wha-do-ya-think?
Lovely video for painters.
THANK YOU SO MUCH ❤️👍
Thank you for the expiation on how to get the % of both paint and water mix.
Fantastic video. This is going to help me with my first ever experience of spray painting. I got Vannect 700W spray gun today.
I have that one from Amazon and have yet to find a video on it.
Great video! I've been waiting to see something like this.
Everyone else seems to be guessing!
Im currently using a metal flake gun with a 3.0mm needle, seat and cup setup. I found thinning latex 15-18% sprays beautifully with this setup and you can keep the pressure down to 30-35 psi at the cap.
Thanks for the info.
I found the 15% water ratio works best for latex based paints using a 1.8 to 2.0 nozzle.
Excellent video just what I needed....Greetings from Ireland
New to HVLP here. Using #4 Ford cup with Zinnser Bullseye 123 latex primer took 10 minutes. Thinned 20%, down to 45 seconds but haven't tried to spray that. Using a Fuji 4 stage turbine and a G-xpc gun which lists 20-30 seconds for latex as a general guide.
William Turczynski Thanks for your comment. I've been brushing/rolling primer of late. The SW Wall & Woodwork sands and powders very quickly to a smooth finish. Thanks for posting your guidelines. Ron
***** I'm new to it so whatever comes up, I'm trying to work it into the project, big or small. Currently that's some brick molding replacement.
This video is just what I needed .Just bought a electric sprayer, and your video helped me so much.
For me: Krylon color maxx 250ml...water: 150ml basically a 60% ratio.....with a 1.4 tip. Beautiful spray, Layed smooth. 90 psi at the compressor. Single red HF desicant at the gun. Originally, I tried 70%, but the piece got a little splotchy. It all depends on the viscosity of the paint. I started at 50%, then moved to 60%.
Excellent review of the viscosity cup. Keep up the good work.
hello, i dont comment very often but thumbs up! great vid. Thank you so much!.
highlights=great content, real life stuff + some special effects but no obnoxious music.
+4x4 Trail Your comment on music is interesting. I used to think it cool to use; now however, I can't stand it. If you look at some of my older videos I always used it. Now I consider it voice over racket.
3:1 mixing ratio through a 1.4mm tip.... Youre welcome
for me, I would always try to spray on a horizontal surface, if at all possible. also, I have given up on gravity feed hvlp and am much happier with a pressure-pot based sprayer (about $60 at harbor freight). You can use less thinning since the paint is pushed through the gun but also, not having the cup on the gun allows for so much better spraying experience (tight corners, upside down, and simply rotate the gun to rotate the fan).
Really simple instructions for a lackey like myself!!! Thanks for the help!
I have no idea why im watching this or why its so interesting
Thanku so much Ron..yep their stingy alright, only info they had in the brochure was oil based paint, enamel, varnish, lacquer/ lacquer sanding sealer what ever that is.
I only need 200ml to paint some small pieces of a doll house, my spray gun container holds 800ml.
I got a test cup/funnel with the sprayer, common sense wins out i think 😁
Thanku very much for your advice Ron its much appreciated
Cheers Kaz from Oz 😃
Karen, it means so much to me that my Dad was able to help you. He passed in January of 2021, and I just now took control of his RUclips channel as my Mom passed early this month. Thanks for your kind words and keeping his RUclips legacy going! - Jason
@@RonBudman Oh Jason, my god Im so very sorry for your loss.
I didn't know about your dad and now your mum too 😥
That's such sad news, please except my condolences.
He was very helpful and I understood what he was saying, which makes a change.
If u continue with this channel hon I wish u all the very best of luck with it all, I'm sure he'll be around or looking in to see what your up to 😊
Thanku Jason
Cheers Kaz from Oz 😉
Aw, YOU make it a great day!
Simple and nice demo...
thanks for the video, ron. super helpful for a spraying newbie like myself.
Ron great video. Concise and to the point. Look forward to more of them.
GREAT EDITING! Nice work, subscribed
love your channel viewed many
I like the vid - well explained Ron. I wonder one thing: wouldn't spraying without any protection for the overspray lead to painting behind the objects that you're doing? Also, if I plan to do some base and crown moulding in the house, how much masking paper should I put to protect around - is 12 inch in each direction enough?
And all you used was water? I don't need to get paint thinner?
@@ddavis9068 Floetrol and DSITILLED WATER - just to be sure, no tap water, chemical can screw things up. Take 300ml (10 oz) of paint and add 0.5 oz water and 0.5 oz floetrol. Stir. Measure with Ford cup. When I got 70-80 seconds I was good to go. I got a book on it from this American known finisher if you want it. For BM Ben paint I used about 10 oz with 2 oz water and 2 oz floetrol fyi - there is no rule. If the paint is dryer (water evaporated) you'll need more water and floetrol. Floetrol conditions the mixture to keep things together. The nozzle for 70-80 seconds was 2.5mm btw.
I am now 1 year plus later and my painted surfaces are still good; no problem.
Feel free to ask me if you got more questions D. Cheers.
Hey Ron, I have polyurethane clear varnish that says “not for spraying” is this just a manufacturing gimmick?
I’d imagine it could be thinned and sprayed.
Can be sprayed… says that because it’s such high voc and very toxic. Just protect yourself
Great video 👍
Great video, excellent voice over.
Great video. Thank you :)
Very professional sir. Thanks for the information
Nice video, clear demo. I have bought waterborne car spray paint. Just like to know what thinners to use.
Great video! You gave us excellent tips.!!
Great explanations, and thanks for going metric. Apparently the US is the last developed / industrialized nation still clinging on to imperial.
DijonInjection And the only nation to have their flag on the moon.😋
Hello Ron Budman,
Foor a school project we have to spray/atomize honey, we can't give the honey a temperature a higher temperature higher than about 40 degrees Celsius. Do you maybe have an idea how to solve this, we can't really change the honey itself. We have to change the nozzle. Thanks in advance.
if you don't want to thin it that much you can use a pressurized cup rather than a gravity feed
Thanks for the info
Great video. Your voice is really good for videos presentations.
I’m very new to painting. Your videos are a great start. But I still don’t have a great idea of the steps needed from start to finish. I’ve got some old farm implement parts. They’ve already been sandblasted. Where do I start, what do I do along the way, and how do I finish to get a good durable coat of paint?
Looks like you have prior experience. LOL! Good information and clear presentation.
Thanks for the comment, Ron
Thank you Ron Great video.
I am spraying trailers, I have a daughter and am a single dad working hard to become a trailer manufacture. I don't have anything huge yet, but really needing help on painting metal trailers and what set ups to use. Please help!
Wonderful lesson.Thank you very much!Julian
Hey Ron. What an amazing video. I appreciate its old but I could really do with some advice. Your video is a little advanced for me in some ways but makes perfect sense. I am going to use some cheap electric spray guns to complete some water based undercoat and gloss work on doors and skirting etc. Spraying solves a lot of problems and I do have 'some' experience of using spray guns (accepted my tools are primative).
I'm not worried about runs. I think I can manage that. (I suspect the quality of the paint output will be the issue). Anyway. Any advice from the US to the UK would be helpful.
very informative. Thamk you.
Thanks Ron
Can you thin paint that the manufacturer suggest not to thin? I have Valspar's Solid Stain and it is water based. I does say not to thin but I want to spray it and it will no doubt be too thick for such an application.
can you explain what you use and how do you use it to clean the gun after your done. Also I want to cover the latex with a water borne polyurethane. How do you thin it what size tip and what do you use to clean up after.
+Bob Greene Try to find a gun with a 2mm nozzle set. Check out this video on gun cleaning. ruclips.net/video/XobA4GU3Xqc/видео.html
I put a 20 oz bottle of water to a gallon of paint...workes perfectly
Nice video
Hello Ron. I have a couple of custom cabinets that I've built to paint. I have been looking at purchasing on of the hvlp turbine spray systems that house painters use. But, I have an old binks model 7 gun and also a binks pressure pot with a binks 2001 gun. I picked up the pressure pot setup for an inexpensive price but have yet to actually use it. I just have this feeling that I should be able to use what I already have to achieve good results. Perhaps I should get an HVLP gun to run off of my standard air compressor. I will be spraying a sandable acrylic primer and acrylic enamel topcoat. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
I used to spray trucks using a two-quart pressure pot setup. This will certainly work, with the one exception that it will take more pressure to atomize the paint than an HVLP gun. You mentioning a Binks 7 brings back memories. With that said, if your pressure pot is in good condition, that would be my choice. It will eliminate a lot a weight from the gun and make the gun handling a lot easier. If you are spraying both the inside and outside of the cabinets, I hope you have a hood respirator to cover your entire face. There will be a lot of blowback. Hope this helps, Ron
Thanks so much for your response. Once I found your video and saw that you were spraying using an air compressor I knew you could answer my question. I'll have to see what size needle is in the 2001 gun and give it a go. Also considering just getting an hvlp gun like you are using.Just like to add that we have one thing in common, a full head of grey hair! Thanks again for producing a video with so much good information that will help me on my projects.
I checked with the technical of Tickerilla paint manufacturer and they said that thinning beyond 10% will nor affect the integrity of their water based paint.
Eight years after your post has anything changed with new generation spray guns?
Great video. Thank you Sir.
Great video. Thank you.
Great video... I'm still curious as to pressure you used for this set up?
Thanks mate! Great help!
Great video, so if i cant find the viscosity rating do i shoot for 35seconds on the ford cup to gauge my spray gun? Performance Tool m576db . what are the benefits of syphon vs gravity?
Excellent video! Very clear and to the point! Question: What is the paint with the hardest finish (as opposed to the "rubbery" finish of latex) that you would recommend for doors and tabletops? Also, is a HVLP gun like the one on the video much better than the handheld types like the HomeRight, or separate budget turbine systems?
With homeright use viscosity cup and you are safe if you use the right ratio for hvlp gun on homeright itll not work well cause ive tested that at least on painting cars primer, base coat, clear coat
With painting rooms its perfect 400 ml and 100 with water based paint so homeright I feel it has its own rules follow it or you'll waste your time and money thier key is viscosity cup and thier manuel showing you viscosity range, good luck
Could you test how much the viscosity changes if you heat up the paint?
Great tip, can you tell me if it’s possible to use gloss based paints using the same method of thinning down with the proper thinning agent and using the viscosity cup...?
Great video thank you sir and bless you
Great video!
I've been painting for many years I found out that all materials need different amounts of thinning I have no formula start thinning until you find the right vescosity
2 Questions for you... Where can you get a viscosity cup? and can you thin regular latex paint with water and if so, how does it affect the end result?
You can buy a viscosity cup from Napa Auto Parts stores or any autobody supply house.
+Daniel Shafner Thanks for the tip . . . Ron
Yes, you can thin latex paint with water. You have to be careful, a little water can affect the viscosity in big ways, seeing you up for runs, drips, and sags. Also, the more that you thin out the paint the less hiding power the paint will have. And the more you thin that latex, the less smooth and the more gritty it cures out. Thin only so much as you need to match the fluid nozzle and needle set of the spray gun.
I have a HVLP spray gun.
Tried spraying enamel based primer & paint on wood furniture. But always get orange peel finish.
I used MTO- mineral turpentine oil for thinning.
Kindly suggest how to avoid the orange peel finish and get a smooth and shiny finish
Iam mixing 3 liter 1k base coat and 1 liter 2k paint thiner and ready to go to paint the car after priming 😁 with hvlp paint gun after that I'll see the clearcoat which is better compressor or homeright electric how it's going but iam doing this with homeright finish max, previously iam doing this with air compressor and just thin 1:1 but I think in this case for this ratio 3 to 1 ill need 1 coat only 😅😅😅 even primer 1k to 2k thinner it should be 1:1 with hvlp gun, but I don't know how much I'll mix to get 40 viscosity or 50 but looking to change electric sometimes iam using this sometimes but if electrical went nice I'll stay with it cause easy to handle and to work with
I am planning on spraying my cabinets with Sherwin Williams Emerald Urethane Enamel. What size tip can I use without thinning the paint? It is a water based hybrid.
Nice video!
great video thanks , can I spray this mix with a 1.4mmm air nozzle, needle and fluid cap configuration?
Yes
Thanks, clear and concise. used metric... of course!!
Thanks for your comment. I am not great at using the metric system; however, in this case, I think it was the easiest.
@@RonBudman Hi Ron, I'm 65 and grew up with imperial measurements but so glad we (in UK) adopted metric, for my kids and it is just so much easier and productive. Thanks again for the video. ....... I've just seen i commented much the same to you 2 years ago
Hi i am using pfs bosch 5000 for the first time for wall painting and ceiling how many seconds should be my paint viscosity
Great explanation video thanks 👍
Mr. Ron Thanks for sharing the video...Best regards from patagonia chile
Since you no longer sell hvlp guns could you recommend an hvlp air gun that can be used to spray both water (latex) based paints along with lacquer based paints? Thanks.
Very informative instruction thank-you sir,
Great video, great guy. Thanks for the info!!
This has been a very helpful video for me so thanks so much for posting it. I wonder if you'd have any idea on what viscosity I'd need using a small touch up gun that has a 250ml cup and a tip size of 0.8 mm ? I've been pulling my hair out to get a waterborne guitar finish to atomize properly through this gun. It's a urethane acrylic by Grafted Coatings called KTM-9. And I can't seem to get any information out of them re viscosity and best way to spray.
Andrew Darnley Andrew, I bought a gun like this from Grizzley and attempted to use it only once. You will probably have to play around with it a bit. Depending on the viscosity of the paint out of the can, I'd play around by adding thinner/water a little at a time until I got a good spray pattern. I would suspect with standard latex paint you should start out at about 25%.
thank you for the info
I am planning on painting my kitchen cabinets with some Benjamin Moore latex. Can I spray it without thinning? If not what do you recommend on how much thinning? I have a pressure sprayer I want to use. Thanks for the good video on the gravity feed.
Which paint wood you recommend when painted steel.
what about extender vs accelerator additives? when to use and not to use been having major problems with general finishes water based poly....
How to thin down Valspar cabinet Enamel paint,I tried to use it but it would not go through my air sprayer,what do I need to do?