I'm actually quite fond of the HOTD version. It more closely resembles how these affairs went down in real history-- the most important factor in an assassination is luck, and premodern security measures were so lax we'd now regard them as criminally negligent.
I don't think one is better or worse than the other. I just think they are too different for one being an adaptation of the other. Knowing what it was like in the books I totally get why people are disapointet in the show version. I also get why they toned it down in the show.
Wow, assassins *S U C K S* in the Asoiaf world. The Catspaw fails to kill bran. The Wight fails to kill Lord Commander Mormont. Blood and Cheese fails to kill Aemond. Littlefinger fails to kill Tyrion and accidentally murder Joffrey (i dig the Preston Jacob theory.) And Robert hitman fails to kill Daenerys. Seriously, did the Faceless Men just cornered the job market of skilled, talented assassins?
@@Corvaricbut shocking more respect for right to work standards than modern corporate America. I mean Arya just quit and walked out. No contract dispute or anything
I didn’t realize maelor just straight didn’t exist in the show, like how are they gonna do the death of set rickard, like maelor is kinda important to the story, it’s just kinda bizarre since the whole killing of jaehaerys was probably the most famous scene from fire and blood and it just seems like an unnecessary and worse change
@@dwightyboy5324no, it was done because the writers love Rhaenyra and the blacks, and thus changed it in order to keep characters like Daemon likeable, if they did it like canon then we would rightly despise Daemon and Mysaria and feel far more sympathy for the Greens, and Alicent would completely hate Rhaenyra and be gun ho for violence afterwards because she was literally tied there and made to watch the entire thing.
@@hubertdenise3100 yeah that's been a problem with the show, they sometimes the make the Blacks look too good. Really, both sides should be just as bad
It only..so called 'ruins' the scene...if you read the books... the scene was perfect as a scene.... we know what supposed to happen...average viewers don't have that bias...😊
@@durrangodsgrief6503you know the book is told from the perspective of three unreliable narrators. Helæna could still have a third child. But i wouldn’t put it past the greens to make the actual event seem worse in order to defame Rhænyra more. Also look at our own history books. Things are constantly changed or misinterpreted over the decades and centuries, so why not make the botched assassination seem more traumatic. I mean Otto was all for parading his great grandson’s corpse through the city while having his daughter and granddaughter ride along.
For all we know in Fire & Blood, she wasn't there. Any details about these incidents come from the perspectives of biased observers. Of course propaganda from the Greens would claim Alicent was present also.
@@michaeltuohy4010 What's the point of believing anything then? It seems Mushroom was a source for that anyway, and Mushroom liked Rhaenyra even if he was prone to the dramatic. Whole point was them using Alicent to ambush the rest anyhow...
@@michaeltuohy4010 then fuck off Jesus this eternal suspicion works for EVERYTHING in the story how the fuck do we say otherwise from aegons reign onwards we have no information then nothing
How I look at it, what we read in the book could just be another means to defame the blacks, and make them look like bad guys. We already know Otto is willing to exploit his family’s tragedy if it means they can strengthen Aegon’s claim. I mean he was willing to go along with Alicent’s claim that Visarys named Aegon his heir before dying.
I still don't understand why they chose to have Helaena walk in on her mom banging Cole in the final scene. It's so strange tonally and so removed from what just happened to Jaehaerys. That they are having an affair was already established in the episode, so putting it there added no new information at all, and just makes Alicent's reaction extremely awkward. Like surely the last impression we should have is "oh god they just decapitated a child in front of his mother" and not "oh damn Cole is clapping those royal cheeks"
Maybe it was to aid in further showing Cole’s deterioration, like that he was giving into his passion instead of doing his one job as head of the kings guard. Which makes him feel even more shame (which of course he handles poorly)
@@Getwright- but...we already saw that he is breaking his vows with alicent. we've already seen it. why put it at the end of the episode again where it weakens the pivotal moment of the whole episode? this whole Alicent/Cole storyline is so bizarre
@@senister14 I interpreted that as them being too panicked/in a rush to really think about it. but yeah good point why didn't one of them make sure she stays quiet and in the room until they were ready to leave?
@@durrangodsgrief6503 First off great name. Second, you are correct. I was disappointed when the scene aired, but I did find it somewhat serviceable even if it did not hit nearly as hard as the book version.
I read an interpretation of the scene where Helaena pointed out Jaehaerys, as her trying to convince Blood and Cheese that she's lying so they would kill Jaehaera, and that she did that in order to defy the dreams that she had where Jaehaeyrs was murdered, but Cheese reading through her was confirmation that she can/t defy fate. I like that intepretation, but I don't take it as mine.
One thing I don't like is how show Cheese actually got caught by Aegon's purge. It would've been better if he'd escaped the way he had in the book, that Aegon's actions were all sound and fury that ultimately only accomplished the harming of innocents due to his rashness and refusal to think things through or listen to others. The obvious thing to do would've been to round up all the ratcatchers and ask Helaena (or Allicent in the books) which of them, if any, was the one who attacked them, and his refusal to do so ultimately results in an act of completely pointless butchery
I get that but I am fine with it either way since just because Aegon did get cheese that dosent justify his actions in an way. It's still needless butchery
@@JasperLane I've not read the books, but I've read enough of the wiki to be thoroughly spoiled, and it seems that 100 dead wasn't a big deal, just one more thing that...spoilers. They were "just" small folk after all. Here's a quote about how Twin would have dealt with Robert and the Battle of the Bells, "Lord Tywin would not have bothered with a search. He would have burned that town and every living creature in it. Men and boys, babes at the breast, noble knights and holy septons, pigs and whores, rats and rebels, he would have burned them all...he would have [then] sent his men in to find the bones of Robert Baratheon."
To be fair it's made very clear in the show that all the other greens (mainly otto) did not approve of Aegon hanging all the rat catchers, and that was kind of the moment where they all realized they fucked up by putting him on the throne
I really don't like how they did B&C in the show, the Alicole scene felt unnecessary and uncomfortable. Not in the "oh this is so gritty and real" kind of uncomfortable more like the "this is not how normal people would react at all" kind
I understand your Alicole criticism, but if you implying Helaena with that last critique, that she didn’t act like a normal person, she literally isn’t normal. She’s tortured by dragon dreams of the future, present, and past constantly to the point where it’s hard for her distinguish time itself, add on to the fact she is autistic, and well, don’t blame the poor girl for not acting normally. She’s already been tortured by her afflictions and premonitions, she already saw Jaehaerys die, maybe many times. So when the moment actually came, she didn’t scream nor offer her life, what good would that do? She probably already did that in her dreams and it didn’t work, but maybe she never tried offering her necklace though, so she tries that, but to no avail. Maybe she pointed to Jaehaerys on purpose to try and trick them into killing Jaehaera, maybe she did cause it worked in her dreams, but they realized she was indeed not normal, and didn’t fall for it. It’s why she utters a horrified “No” afterwards, like that wasn’t supposed to happen, that no matter what she did, she could never save the boy, her boy. It’s so goddamn tragic holy shit.
@@baron6588 I was actually talking about Alicent and Criston. It makes no sense that Alicent, a woman that was raped all throughout her teenagehood and after, and Criston Cole, the honor obsessed ultra-celibate Lord Commander of the Kingsguard who made a HUGE deal about Rhaenyra soiling his honour, would start fucking less than a year after Vizzy T kicked the bucket
I LOVED the scene of her walking away with her girl! They really captured what it feels like to live through trauma and trying to get away from it to such a huge degree! It gives me the shivers!!!I LOVED the scene of her walking away with her girl! They really captured what it feels like to live through trauma and trying to get away from it to such a huge degree! It gives me the shivers!!
@@aegorbittersteel2154 thank you thank you very much actually I am doing a little bit better. It's been a long road but I'm getting there bro thank you
Just came back from Cornwall after visiting my grandfather's grave after he had passed away a few months back, as well having had just watched 'A son for a son' from HOTD, so this is well-timed and I'm feeling better now. (^-^)/
Not opppsed to the ‘this happened in the book’ and then ‘but the same scene in the book went etc’ but I think these videos work better with the whole book story and then the whole show story. Like didn’t your Viserys video do that? Could be wrong but idk I think the flow works better
We are disappointed that show couldn't bold enough to bring the real Blood and cheese. They have less budgets for greens. I share the grief of king aegon nonetheless. The young prince was innocent, all he wanted was ride a pony.
No dont talk for us a good number of us are not disappointed at all. It was way over the top in the books, It feels like it was done for shock value and I do not like fucked up stuff happening for shock value. Why on earth would those two be so cruel for no reason to a child. The show feels more real to me. Its one thing to be ok killing a kid for money there are many people out there like that, But to be so over the top with the sadism of it for no reason just ruins it for me. Cruelty just to make the reader or watcher uncomfortable is not good writing.
As a show only watcher it was pretty creepy and shocking to me. I figured that the would find their actual target (the kings brother) and he would kill them both 2 on 1 (since he seems to be a pretty good fighter)
@luigiff3431 no because they set it up as being Aemond as the target and that obviously wasnt going to happen and sense they showed Aegon first it made it super obvious who was going to die
@@luigiff3431 na i really didnt know blood and cheese was coming as i forgot it was this early in the story, but i was rooting for the assasins because they were kinda funny. there was like no suspense lol
In the show, Cheese has a small, mangy terrier of some sort that he brings with him as part of his ratting equipment. At one point he tries to back out of going any further, but Blood basically threatens to kill him if he doesn't. In frustration, Cheese kicks his dog before continuing, thus cementing instant hatred from the entire fandom
The problem with B&C is not just the changes but the fact Helaena just walks and Alicent is riding Cole makes the scene hilarious They try to sell Red wedding without Blood or impact, Helaena is in shock like Robb or Cat BUT WE NEVER SEE ANY KIND OF GORE (like a shadow, a head falling) Is so cheapy and dumb i can't buy any people liking this versus the book
I like the continued thread of differences between history books and what “actually happened” I think the book tells it different so that the greens look stronger - “helaena didn’t give up her son, she was tricked!” That kinda thing
I dont hate the hotD version, i get the limitations of live action (especially with child actors), but i wish they had at least kept it somewhat ambiguous. Having it so obviously Daemon made it less interesting to me. I think they couldve shown it more from the perspective of Helaena and have it be a mystery. Or maybe had Larys play a role as well
*shakes fingers* according to grrm and the showrunners, this is the real version. Yep, while the queen and her children were undefended, Cole was railing the Queen Mom... hey, I hated the show last season, don't blame me for the rules.
Boo hoo, the beginning of a Dance with Dragons features a man using the body of a wolf to eat a woman and her baby. If the violence of A Song of Ice and Fire really bothers you, then this is not the story for you
@@SerObeseHightower it was after Stannis scattered the wildlings at the wall. The man in question Varamyr Sixskins, was cold and starving, so he wanted to use his wolves to feel the sensation of eating fresh meat.
I assume the showrunners didn't make Helaena choose between her children, because they didn't want to be accused of making a rip-off of Sophie's Choice. I can't think of explanations for why they made any of the other changes though.
I think the show did this a lot better. People doing something for money do it out of desperation, and you see it all over Cheese. So many horrible things in our history come from a lack of communication and idiots doing dumb shit.
I actually think the show did it well. The same impact is achieved. There is no need to make Haelena choose between two kids (mainly because there isn't a second son) because the damage is the same: killing one of her sons is brutal.
The "real" Blood and Cheese is what we saw in the show. Fire & Blood is a history book written centuries after this happened, based on unreliable sources. I don't understand how so many people miss this and take the book as 100% fact.
The book and the show are two seperate stories and worlds. So both are true in their own story, I think the book version is better and more interesting also because Maelor is very important in the book story.
The real blood and cringe cause that's all they were. Felt like an amateur author's idea of sadistic james bond shark pool villainy. Crazy that one of them didn't have a red button which helaena could press. The show version is so much more realistic and grounded it's not even fair. Fugg this fandom tbh.
I am pretty sure the writer's of the show said Dameon never said a son for a son. They said chesse and blood acted on there own and the plan just went wrong.
Which is terrible, and the showrunners constantly try to do this make the Blacks look not so bad especially Daemon and Rhaenyra. Simply in order to give the audience a team to cheer for like a sporting event. When this pretty much goes entirely against the philosophy of GRRM behind not just Fire and Blood but the whole ASOIAF series.
Honestly I prefered the show version. The book version plays it up as a sadistic, heart wrenching melodrama. But I honestly kind of like that it was a messy affair that was almost botched on multiple occasions. To me it adds to how this entire civil war is caused by people who honestly barely know what they're doing or comprehend the ramifications of their actions
Counter argument. The description of Blood & Cheese actions are cruel, too cruel, very brow raising cruel. No one was there to witness the event, just Alicent and Haleana, conveniently and unlike most events this one doesn't have conflicting accounts just one about what B&C did. My theory is that they did kill the boy but it was not as cruel as it seems, the too convenient details that transpire are a fabrication or "Green propaganda". Still i divorce the book from the show.
Nothing like HBO making more changes for no reason smh. I mean is Maelor completely non existent?! So I guess we won’t see him killed by small folk n Rhaeyras reaction?! Clearly Helena didn’t have to choose then? And what about Alicent being accosted n tied up by Blood n Cheese n being helpless while watching it all unfold?! Damn shame
@@DominionSorcerer ok explain to me how a dragon could burst through the dragon pit, on king aegons coronation and not be SOMETHING FUCKING MENTIONED WHEN EVER THE DANCE IS BROUGHT UP YOU ARE MENTALLY HANDICAPPED TO THE POINT OF YOUR BRAIN BEING LIKE THE BODY OF STEPHEN HAWKING IF YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHT IF THIS SHOW BEING IN ANYWAY ACCURATE DO YOU THINK EVERYONE IS AS RETARDED AS YOU TO THINK THIS
@@mum-your they have changed things, that much is true, we might still get Maelor but who knows. Regardless it's an adaptation of what is meant to be an in-universe history book that was written almost two centuries after the Dance happened using second hand sources. It's meant to be contradictory, inaccurate and confusing. Any proper adaptation of it _would_ be inaccurate to the book because the book isn't an accurate work of history in the setting of A Song of Ice and Fire.
May I ask why? why do you want to watch two evil men who are being over the top evil for no reason torture a family then fuck with the family for no reason then cut a kid head off. I think the show version is far better as it was not written to be over the top evil just for shock value and to make the reader or watcher uncomfortable. If there was a reason for them to be that evil then sure but there was not one. It was written that way for one reason, shock value makes people talk about your book.
Which version is your favorite? Blood and Cheese from the book or HOTD?
The book
I'm actually quite fond of the HOTD version. It more closely resembles how these affairs went down in real history-- the most important factor in an assassination is luck, and premodern security measures were so lax we'd now regard them as criminally negligent.
I don't think one is better or worse than the other. I just think they are too different for one being an adaptation of the other. Knowing what it was like in the books I totally get why people are disapointet in the show version. I also get why they toned it down in the show.
I would be fine with the show version if Alicent had been in the damn room!
I prefer the book because it's a different level of tragic.
Maybe the real Blood and Cheese were the dogs we kicked along the way.
lmfao
Haha
Coming next week: the REAL dog cheese kicked
The pooch that was promised
I can’t believe they gave that dog a beard!! Thanks HBO!!!
You mean chili cheese dog
Was there a dog in the book I don't recall it reading F&B
That dog was hot
Wow, assassins *S U C K S* in the Asoiaf world.
The Catspaw fails to kill bran.
The Wight fails to kill Lord Commander Mormont.
Blood and Cheese fails to kill Aemond.
Littlefinger fails to kill Tyrion and accidentally murder Joffrey (i dig the Preston Jacob theory.)
And Robert hitman fails to kill Daenerys.
Seriously, did the Faceless Men just cornered the job market of skilled, talented assassins?
👌🏻
Faceless Men about to be sued for Antitrust Act violation.
@@Corvaricbut shocking more respect for right to work standards than modern corporate America. I mean Arya just quit and walked out. No contract dispute or anything
Idk, the first facelessman we meet was caught and arrested
@@JasperLane for all we know, perhaps he allowed it. :P
This scene in the book is somehow way worse and is actually kinda spine chilling. Really feel bad for the children caught in this conflict.
So true, my friend. Great to see you again. Hope you are doing Fantastic.
@@aegorbittersteel2154 well met Ser. I thank you for your kind words. I pray you are also doing well my friend!
To The King! 🍻
@lukebarroso449 I am doing well, thank you.
To The King🍻
explain how right. fucking. NOW
I didn’t realize maelor just straight didn’t exist in the show, like how are they gonna do the death of set rickard, like maelor is kinda important to the story, it’s just kinda bizarre since the whole killing of jaehaerys was probably the most famous scene from fire and blood and it just seems like an unnecessary and worse change
It was probably done just to simplify it, game of thrones has a history of combining characters to simplify stories
@@dwightyboy5324no, it was done because the writers love Rhaenyra and the blacks, and thus changed it in order to keep characters like Daemon likeable, if they did it like canon then we would rightly despise Daemon and Mysaria and feel far more sympathy for the Greens, and Alicent would completely hate Rhaenyra and be gun ho for violence afterwards because she was literally tied there and made to watch the entire thing.
@@hubertdenise3100 yeah that's been a problem with the show, they sometimes the make the Blacks look too good. Really, both sides should be just as bad
I wish Maelor was in the show. It ruins the scene a bit without Cheese taunting him honestly.
It only..so called 'ruins' the scene...if you read the books... the scene was perfect as a scene.... we know what supposed to happen...average viewers don't have that bias...😊
@@MADKIDD623BHNIt does cut out the biggest gut punch though, the thing that really breaks Helaena
@@MADKIDD623BHNbut if you’re told the story that it’s based off, then you’d be annoyed because it’s much better and they changed it for no reason
@@MADKIDD623BHN so basically ignore the source material and burry your head in the earth to not know how you were let down
@@durrangodsgrief6503you know the book is told from the perspective of three unreliable narrators. Helæna could still have a third child. But i wouldn’t put it past the greens to make the actual event seem worse in order to defame Rhænyra more. Also look at our own history books. Things are constantly changed or misinterpreted over the decades and centuries, so why not make the botched assassination seem more traumatic. I mean Otto was all for parading his great grandson’s corpse through the city while having his daughter and granddaughter ride along.
Alicent not being present is very unfortunate. It’s far more interesting and leads to real hatred.
For all we know in Fire & Blood, she wasn't there. Any details about these incidents come from the perspectives of biased observers. Of course propaganda from the Greens would claim Alicent was present also.
Get off your burner Condall. No one believes in the propaganda bullshit regarding blood and cheese.
@@michaeltuohy4010 What's the point of believing anything then? It seems Mushroom was a source for that anyway, and Mushroom liked Rhaenyra even if he was prone to the dramatic. Whole point was them using Alicent to ambush the rest anyhow...
@@michaeltuohy4010 then fuck off Jesus this eternal suspicion works for EVERYTHING in the story how the fuck do we say otherwise from aegons reign onwards we have no information then nothing
This whole interaction is why i hate fire & blood
I didn't totally love how it was adapted for the show but I think the actors for Bludden Cheese were great, Phia nailed it to obviously
Same on rewatch though I found it better
Bludden 😅
Her disassociation was well portrayed
REAL
How I look at it, what we read in the book could just be another means to defame the blacks, and make them look like bad guys. We already know Otto is willing to exploit his family’s tragedy if it means they can strengthen Aegon’s claim. I mean he was willing to go along with Alicent’s claim that Visarys named Aegon his heir before dying.
I still don't understand why they chose to have Helaena walk in on her mom banging Cole in the final scene. It's so strange tonally and so removed from what just happened to Jaehaerys. That they are having an affair was already established in the episode, so putting it there added no new information at all, and just makes Alicent's reaction extremely awkward. Like surely the last impression we should have is "oh god they just decapitated a child in front of his mother" and not "oh damn Cole is clapping those royal cheeks"
Maybe it was to aid in further showing Cole’s deterioration, like that he was giving into his passion instead of doing his one job as head of the kings guard. Which makes him feel even more shame (which of course he handles poorly)
@@Getwright- no its to take away from the event you could have literally still had alicent their and more
@@Getwright- but...we already saw that he is breaking his vows with alicent. we've already seen it. why put it at the end of the episode again where it weakens the pivotal moment of the whole episode? this whole Alicent/Cole storyline is so bizarre
Also why would they let her go to alert the guards while they're trying to escape?
@@senister14 I interpreted that as them being too panicked/in a rush to really think about it. but yeah good point why didn't one of them make sure she stays quiet and in the room until they were ready to leave?
Halena deserves better. Seven bless our autistic queen
Woooo Lord Haven content!!!!!!
Wish Blood and Cheese was more like the book, although I get it might be too much if it was exact.
Indeed Ser. It was a decently done adaptation, but the book version cannot be topped. The Late Lord Haven never fails to bring good content.
@lukebarroso449 true on all accounts, especially about Lord Haven's glorious content.
@@lukebarroso449I dunno, King Viscerys was better in the show, Paddy absolutely dominated every scene he was in
@@lukebarroso449 it was a poor adaptation iwoundt even call it the same thing
@@durrangodsgrief6503 First off great name. Second, you are correct. I was disappointed when the scene aired, but I did find it somewhat serviceable even if it did not hit nearly as hard as the book version.
I read an interpretation of the scene where Helaena pointed out Jaehaerys, as her trying to convince Blood and Cheese that she's lying so they would kill Jaehaera, and that she did that in order to defy the dreams that she had where Jaehaeyrs was murdered, but Cheese reading through her was confirmation that she can/t defy fate. I like that intepretation, but I don't take it as mine.
One thing I don't like is how show Cheese actually got caught by Aegon's purge. It would've been better if he'd escaped the way he had in the book, that Aegon's actions were all sound and fury that ultimately only accomplished the harming of innocents due to his rashness and refusal to think things through or listen to others. The obvious thing to do would've been to round up all the ratcatchers and ask Helaena (or Allicent in the books) which of them, if any, was the one who attacked them, and his refusal to do so ultimately results in an act of completely pointless butchery
Not enough people have talked about this. Cheese pulling a Keyser Söze just adds to the psychological trauma.
Very true
I get that but I am fine with it either way since just because Aegon did get cheese that dosent justify his actions in an way.
It's still needless butchery
@@JasperLane I've not read the books, but I've read enough of the wiki to be thoroughly spoiled, and it seems that 100 dead wasn't a big deal, just one more thing that...spoilers. They were "just" small folk after all.
Here's a quote about how Twin would have dealt with Robert and the Battle of the Bells, "Lord Tywin would not have bothered with a search. He would have burned that town and every living creature in it. Men and boys, babes at the breast, noble knights and holy septons, pigs and whores, rats and rebels, he would have burned them all...he would have [then] sent his men in to find the bones of Robert Baratheon."
To be fair it's made very clear in the show that all the other greens (mainly otto) did not approve of Aegon hanging all the rat catchers, and that was kind of the moment where they all realized they fucked up by putting him on the throne
I really don't like how they did B&C in the show, the Alicole scene felt unnecessary and uncomfortable. Not in the "oh this is so gritty and real" kind of uncomfortable more like the "this is not how normal people would react at all" kind
I understand your Alicole criticism, but if you implying Helaena with that last critique, that she didn’t act like a normal person, she literally isn’t normal. She’s tortured by dragon dreams of the future, present, and past constantly to the point where it’s hard for her distinguish time itself, add on to the fact she is autistic, and well, don’t blame the poor girl for not acting normally. She’s already been tortured by her afflictions and premonitions, she already saw Jaehaerys die, maybe many times. So when the moment actually came, she didn’t scream nor offer her life, what good would that do? She probably already did that in her dreams and it didn’t work, but maybe she never tried offering her necklace though, so she tries that, but to no avail. Maybe she pointed to Jaehaerys on purpose to try and trick them into killing Jaehaera, maybe she did cause it worked in her dreams, but they realized she was indeed not normal, and didn’t fall for it. It’s why she utters a horrified “No” afterwards, like that wasn’t supposed to happen, that no matter what she did, she could never save the boy, her boy. It’s so goddamn tragic holy shit.
Yes they try to sell Heleana shock like Robb and Cat
BUT WE NEVER SEE THE DEATH
looks cheapy versión because of the budget
Is not Creative at all
@@Morfe02
Bro, do you actually want to see the decapitation of a 4 year old child onscreen.
@@Morfe02
Bro, do you actually want to see the dec@pitation of a 4 year old child onscreen?
@@baron6588 I was actually talking about Alicent and Criston. It makes no sense that Alicent, a woman that was raped all throughout her teenagehood and after, and Criston Cole, the honor obsessed ultra-celibate Lord Commander of the Kingsguard who made a HUGE deal about Rhaenyra soiling his honour, would start fucking less than a year after Vizzy T kicked the bucket
I LOVED the scene of her walking away with her girl!
They really captured what it feels like to live through trauma and trying to get away from it to such a huge degree! It gives me the shivers!!!I LOVED the scene of her walking away with her girl!
They really captured what it feels like to live through trauma and trying to get away from it to such a huge degree! It gives me the shivers!!
Daemon is her husbunduncle.
Husbunduncle sounds so German 😂😂
@fantasyhaven1 you are the Man!!! Shout out from Texas!
He is indeed. Good to see you again, hope you are well.
@@aegorbittersteel2154 thank you thank you very much actually I am doing a little bit better. It's been a long road but I'm getting there bro thank you
@@Rebel_Lord_Taron I am glad to hear that. I hope it gets even better.
@@aegorbittersteel2154 it's all uphill from here my friend
@@Rebel_Lord_Taron exactly you got this!!!!
Great Heleana analysis!❤ Highlighting why she just pointed at Jaehaerys is important in terms of understanding her neurodivergent representation.
Next time The Real Daeron: the no invisible one
Just came back from Cornwall after visiting my grandfather's grave after he had passed away a few months back, as well having had just watched 'A son for a son' from HOTD, so this is well-timed and I'm feeling better now.
(^-^)/
Not opppsed to the ‘this happened in the book’ and then ‘but the same scene in the book went etc’ but I think these videos work better with the whole book story and then the whole show story. Like didn’t your Viserys video do that? Could be wrong but idk I think the flow works better
Thanks for the feedback
I prefer Maelor being added because they also added it in A History and lore of Westeros. And it just adds a certain expectation to these scenes
We are disappointed that show couldn't bold enough to bring the real Blood and cheese. They have less budgets for greens.
I share the grief of king aegon nonetheless. The young prince was innocent, all he wanted was ride a pony.
I mean, to be fair, in the book, there is no _real_ Blood and Cheese. Only three different conflicting historical records.
@@DominionSorcerer yes and we all know in that record Queen haelyna was not a prophet.
No dont talk for us a good number of us are not disappointed at all. It was way over the top in the books, It feels like it was done for shock value and I do not like fucked up stuff happening for shock value. Why on earth would those two be so cruel for no reason to a child. The show feels more real to me. Its one thing to be ok killing a kid for money there are many people out there like that, But to be so over the top with the sadism of it for no reason just ruins it for me. Cruelty just to make the reader or watcher uncomfortable is not good writing.
I dont mind the lack of gore, the problem i have is that the hole sequence had zero feel of suspense or creepiness.
Was i, maybe, because you knew about it? To someone with no knowledge of blood and cheese, the scene seems to have been enough creepy and suspenseful
As a show only watcher it was pretty creepy and shocking to me. I figured that the would find their actual target (the kings brother) and he would kill them both 2 on 1 (since he seems to be a pretty good fighter)
@luigiff3431 no because they set it up as being Aemond as the target and that obviously wasnt going to happen and sense they showed Aegon first it made it super obvious who was going to die
@@luigiff3431 na i really didnt know blood and cheese was coming as i forgot it was this early in the story, but i was rooting for the assasins because they were kinda funny. there was like no suspense lol
Okay I heard about the dog. What’s up.
In the show, Cheese has a small, mangy terrier of some sort that he brings with him as part of his ratting equipment. At one point he tries to back out of going any further, but Blood basically threatens to kill him if he doesn't. In frustration, Cheese kicks his dog before continuing, thus cementing instant hatred from the entire fandom
The Real Chud and Bleese
Lmao
I'm curious if Cheese made it out in the books. It would have been more tragic if Aegons purge didnt succeed and it only harmed innocent people
He did. They never found him
In the books they discover a corpse within the red keep with golden crowns dating back to the reign of Aegon II. It is most likely Cheese.
The problem with B&C is not just the changes but the fact Helaena just walks and Alicent is riding Cole makes the scene hilarious
They try to sell Red wedding without Blood or impact, Helaena is in shock like Robb or Cat BUT WE NEVER SEE ANY KIND OF GORE (like a shadow, a head falling)
Is so cheapy and dumb i can't buy any people liking this versus the book
The Red Wedding wasn’t improved by stabbing a pregnant woman in the belly. Gore is not equal to impact.
No one tried to Sell "Red Wedding".... youtube People hyped it up like that...😂
Now when you say "Aged thickness".....
Oh my god, it's like watching medieval Santa Barbara ngl.
I really liked the show version.
her uncle and husband...
I prefer the book Version after seeeing this Video (never read any Book with Hotd Content only the Classics)
Probably had a bad rat problem after that 😂
iron and lactose
Daemon lol 😂 fucking savage
Blood and Cheese are the reason why I can’t bring myself to like Daemond.
Since maelor wasn’t in blood and cheese and jahaerys being dead I feel they r gonna have halaena get pregnant with maelor sometime in season 2.
I can't wait for the real someone in few weeks after that character dies
First also great job it’s an awesome video also can I get a pin
Finally broo
When are we getting The Real Jon Snow
I like the continued thread of differences between history books and what “actually happened” I think the book tells it different so that the greens look stronger - “helaena didn’t give up her son, she was tricked!” That kinda thing
'Scuse me, I came here for edgy new recipes. Tf is this?
I dont hate the hotD version, i get the limitations of live action (especially with child actors), but i wish they had at least kept it somewhat ambiguous. Having it so obviously Daemon made it less interesting to me. I think they couldve shown it more from the perspective of Helaena and have it be a mystery. Or maybe had Larys play a role as well
*shakes fingers* according to grrm and the showrunners, this is the real version. Yep, while the queen and her children were undefended, Cole was railing the Queen Mom... hey, I hated the show last season, don't blame me for the rules.
He's cheeesin🧀
Love it 🙏
Based
Show just keeps being more and more biased towards Rhaenyra's camp...
On one hand: disappointed in the show adaptation
On the other: book one was too scary (I screamed the whole time)
Boo hoo, the beginning of a Dance with Dragons features a man using the body of a wolf to eat a woman and her baby. If the violence of A Song of Ice and Fire really bothers you, then this is not the story for you
@@josephbulkin9222 Why did he eat the baby too was it part of a meal deal?
@@SerObeseHightower it was after Stannis scattered the wildlings at the wall. The man in question Varamyr Sixskins, was cold and starving, so he wanted to use his wolves to feel the sensation of eating fresh meat.
@@josephbulkin9222 Wow more like Varamyr Sixmeals am I right?
@@SerObeseHightower yep
I have already seen Blackies going 180° and going from "Poor baby Luke no child should die in war" to "He was future Htler, son for a son, go queen"
I assume the showrunners didn't make Helaena choose between her children, because they didn't want to be accused of making a rip-off of Sophie's Choice. I can't think of explanations for why they made any of the other changes though.
A great video idea. Why HBO was wise to remove the Shaggy Dog story Maelor's character represents.
👍👍
The shows version was fuggin stupid
I think the show did this a lot better. People doing something for money do it out of desperation, and you see it all over Cheese. So many horrible things in our history come from a lack of communication and idiots doing dumb shit.
🩸🧀
I actually think the show did it well. The same impact is achieved. There is no need to make Haelena choose between two kids (mainly because there isn't a second son) because the damage is the same: killing one of her sons is brutal.
When I saw how shitty they did the blood and cheese part of the show…….I knew this show was gonna suck like the first show.
The "real" Blood and Cheese is what we saw in the show. Fire & Blood is a history book written centuries after this happened, based on unreliable sources. I don't understand how so many people miss this and take the book as 100% fact.
The book and the show are two seperate stories and worlds. So both are true in their own story, I think the book version is better and more interesting also because Maelor is very important in the book story.
So Maelor never existed in the first place, he was just a figment of imagination of Mushroom?
So Maelor never existed in the first place, he was just a figment of imagination of Mushroom?
The real blood and cringe cause that's all they were. Felt like an amateur author's idea of sadistic james bond shark pool villainy. Crazy that one of them didn't have a red button which helaena could press. The show version is so much more realistic and grounded it's not even fair. Fugg this fandom tbh.
I am pretty sure the writer's of the show said Dameon never said a son for a son. They said chesse and blood acted on there own and the plan just went wrong.
They said that it's purposely ambiguous as to whether or not he said it
The show fumbled this
ryan condal said b&c in the book was anti-rhaenyra propaganda so he had to change it to not make team black look so bad
Ah yes Ryan Condal is now an authority on the books
@@mementomori771he does have the author to consult with
Which is terrible, and the showrunners constantly try to do this make the Blacks look not so bad especially Daemon and Rhaenyra. Simply in order to give the audience a team to cheer for like a sporting event. When this pretty much goes entirely against the philosophy of GRRM behind not just Fire and Blood but the whole ASOIAF series.
Honestly I prefered the show version. The book version plays it up as a sadistic, heart wrenching melodrama. But I honestly kind of like that it was a messy affair that was almost botched on multiple occasions. To me it adds to how this entire civil war is caused by people who honestly barely know what they're doing or comprehend the ramifications of their actions
Counter argument.
The description of Blood & Cheese actions are cruel, too cruel, very brow raising cruel. No one was there to witness the event, just Alicent and Haleana, conveniently and unlike most events this one doesn't have conflicting accounts just one about what B&C did.
My theory is that they did kill the boy but it was not as cruel as it seems, the too convenient details that transpire are a fabrication or "Green propaganda".
Still i divorce the book from the show.
The book isn't an accurate description of the event itself, saying that it's real is misleading.
Cant have any team black atrocities without someone thinking it didn’t happen lol
provide counter evidence beyond conjecture please
yeah because nothing happened, its written by grrm. ofc its not real lil bro
Nothing like HBO making more changes for no reason smh. I mean is Maelor completely non existent?! So I guess we won’t see him killed by small folk n Rhaeyras reaction?! Clearly Helena didn’t have to choose then? And what about Alicent being accosted n tied up by Blood n Cheese n being helpless while watching it all unfold?! Damn shame
Recap videos 🤮
I think the book version is so unecessarily cruel that it'd make watchers drop the show
Bull
This is a notoriously violent story.
If Condal had a problem, shouldn't have taken it.
@@josephbulkin9222 it's a notoriously violent story, but also a notoriously contradictory story. The show version is as accurate as the book version.
@@DominionSorcerer ok explain to me how a dragon could burst through the dragon pit, on king aegons coronation and not be SOMETHING FUCKING MENTIONED WHEN EVER THE DANCE IS BROUGHT UP YOU ARE MENTALLY HANDICAPPED TO THE POINT OF YOUR BRAIN BEING LIKE THE BODY OF STEPHEN HAWKING IF YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHT IF THIS SHOW BEING IN ANYWAY ACCURATE DO YOU THINK EVERYONE IS AS RETARDED AS YOU TO THINK THIS
@@DominionSorcerer no its not lol, it doesnt even have the third child. its so inaccurate its actually crazy
@@mum-your they have changed things, that much is true, we might still get Maelor but who knows.
Regardless it's an adaptation of what is meant to be an in-universe history book that was written almost two centuries after the Dance happened using second hand sources. It's meant to be contradictory, inaccurate and confusing. Any proper adaptation of it _would_ be inaccurate to the book because the book isn't an accurate work of history in the setting of A Song of Ice and Fire.
Book. I hated the way the adapted.
May I ask why? why do you want to watch two evil men who are being over the top evil for no reason torture a family then fuck with the family for no reason then cut a kid head off. I think the show version is far better as it was not written to be over the top evil just for shock value and to make the reader or watcher uncomfortable. If there was a reason for them to be that evil then sure but there was not one. It was written that way for one reason, shock value makes people talk about your book.