One additional thing to keep in mind is that AudioModeling charges a lot for maintenance upgrades. I have the version 2.0 woodwinds. Upgrading to version 3.0 (which has a different interface, but isn't reported to sound that different) would cost me $300. That's a LOT for a product that was expensive from the start. I also have the Acoustic Samples modeled instruments, and I find I'm using them more often, these days.
I like that the SWAM trumpet can be made to sound like a Miles Davis trumpet for some classic smoky jazz club sound. Great video. Now I want a breath controller for Christmas.
This sounds incredible! Surely this is the way to go. So much more flexible than samples. As a ‘musician’ and physicist and programmer I’m really interested in the maths behind this too. Doctor Mixes video with the developers is well worth a watch too. I think the high price is well warranted given the work behind this
finally an in-depth video that isn't just a short demo or introduction. i have had a developing opinion about the SWAM instruments, but have come to really like the saxophones and am planning to buy some brass in the near future. the aspect that you can "trombonize" the other brass instruments is really intruiging. thank you for this video!
I've grown quite fond of modelled instruments lately 🙂 After I learned how to use the Infinite series by Aaron Venture properly, I've almost stopped using sample instruments for brass and woodwinds for my latest mockups as they are so powerful, although there is a learning curve to getting the different parameters right and making them sound organic and not so sterile as they can sound without tweaking. Great demo and playing! Would have liked for you to show them used as a section in a composition as well as you usually do for demos, as that is very interesting as well 🙂Have got the SWAM saxophones, but not used them yet as no mockup has required saxes thus far 😛
True, you can find saxophones in orchestras, but they are indeed less common. And, yes, there are some other interesting vsts out there who use the same concept. I didn't have time for a mockup this time to be honest, but maybe i can do something about that soon.
Thank you! although i'm using the entire SWAM lineup since about a year now it was fun to watch. When it comes to strings; I must say that If mapped ergonomically you get a much more organic sound out of them - and i'm talking basic controller - not a seaboard ot the like. For example to be able to use expression (i use a pedal), bow pressure (slider), harmonics (slider) and vibrato (after touch) will get you next level. especially to be able to throw in "imperfections" like scratch or accidental harmonics - very enjoyable
I believe you. I got the feeling that the strings have to be performed more "correctly" and then they sound really good. I will experiment more with your tips.
This is probably the best video on SWAM instruments. Samplemodeling is also excellent, some instruments sound even better, but those are sampled, and they do not have double reeds, only brass and strings, but samplemodeling also has ensemble samples. I play an EWI or Roland windcontroller so both of my hands are busy. My keyboard skills are very rusty, but I have to agree with all of your observations. What you forgot to say as one of the reasons for liking this program is that having learned one series of gestures, such as the piano keyboard (or flute, sax etc. for wind players using a windcontroller) you can play just about every instrument in an orchestra, without spending years learning brass, or flute fingering, or using the bow for strings etc. Sure it will no match the expressiveness of acoustic instruments, even after the sounds get even closer to the real thing, because some of the playing parameters are difficult to implement easily w a keyboard (and especially w a windcontroller because both of your hands are in use). However, thanks for all the hard work creating this wonderful video !
I somewhat disagree with this. Yes there are some things that extremely hard to simulate. but with the advancements I see currently, if I player becomes very proficient with the Tec breath controller 2 for example and while using one hand to play the melody, the other hand can be used to control multiple other parameters. It's all about the player. A very good player using all this Tec with a physical modelling instrument that has all of the variations mappable to midi, incredible results, dare I say supernatural results can be achieved. th tec controller can control 4 things at the same time, Breath, bite, tilt and nod. Plus a minimum of two variables with the left hand and the right hand for the melody... that's a lot of expressiveness to control, but it's also difficult skill wise.
Oh ... my ... wow. I'm in love with this style of recording. I'm going to go all the way with a breath controller! This is the best demonstration I've seen with one so far. Thank you.
You do such a great job on these videos, both in explaining the plugin as well as demonstrating. You have great chops! Subscribed! I think its time for me to purchase a SWAM instrument from Audio Modeling and while I’m at it, a breath controller from Tec. This company is amazing and i find that the sounds are as realistic as they are flexible.
That's pretty damn impressive! I'd love to see what some of the classical composers (like Bach 🎻 for example) would think of all this technology, it would blow their mind🧠
I would use both audiomodeling (for electric pianos, theremins, etc.) and sample libraries (both custom and from other companies). I would also use ROM-plers, Sound Modules, Sample CDs, and live instruments.
Really great performances with the breath controller, especially the trumpet. I'm less convinced with the overall sound quality, however. The strings in particular need a lot of work to sound more realistic. This kind of technology is the wave of the future, but I think it's still very much in the development phase, so I'm holding off for now and continuing with conventional sample libraries. But I look forward to improvements in this area in the future.
I just got the all in bundle and swam instruments are the best I've ever heard. Using a Tec breath controller v2 it makes instrument sound so natural. I'm shocked. I wasted way too much time programming other synths when this is nearly perfect for many instruments.
I have a sax from Soundpaint which uses a totally new proprietary audio format. I haven't used it much yes, but it's pretty cood and I think worth looking into.
I have been using these for a long time including the Samplemodeling versions. At times I much prefer the Samplemodeling trumpet but I also like this SWAM Audio Modeling version too. Has a much better UI as well. I mostly use a wind controller and a keyboard sometimes. But yes, they are head and shoulders above the rest. But there are still some good sample libraries, which maybe not have the same flexibility, but sound different & interesting. They now have the String sessions, sections so you need to review that-hint. Really good video introduction of the instruments by the way!!
Very good, balanced review. Their instruments are really great for certain usecases where you need a lot of control over the performance, but don't have real players. The one downside in my opinion is the relatively high price to value ratio. I know it's not apples to apples comparison, but in terms of value - just compare it to what some other vendors, like Spectrasonics get you for similar prices, and I use those daily. If it gets a 40-50% discount sale, I would probably get the whole bundle, but at these prices it's just not there yet in terms of value for me. I think the next big thing is going to be AI modelled instruments, that are trained on real performance samples of instruments. with optimized models, run on high end Nvidia RTX graphics cards. That would indeed be revolutionary and much closer to the real thing, but don't know if it is being worked on yet.
Thank you for the very interesting review!!! Incredible how technology is going faster and faster and can reproduce reality with such details!!! Wow. I Liked most of the instruments, in particular found the brass in general, and the bassoon and clarinet quite realistic. I liked less the oboe and cello. But in general very impressive! And gorgeous your way to use the breath controller!!! I have to buy one :-) And the new approach that audiomodeling together with breath controller brings (to play instead of programming) is very musical indeed. Thank you for the great channel!! You deserve many views and subscribers!!! Christian
I'm glad you made this well-done, informative video. As soon as you got past the brass and got into the saxes I knew I would never go near this thing. I play soprano sax, and the instrument you played doesn't sound remotely like a soprano sax. Tenor sax and solo strings were marginal at best, in my most un-humble opinion, in so far as sounding like the genuine instruments. To be honest, I have yet to year solo saxes that I would use in a finished piece, apart from some baritone saxes I might use in a mix. Brass is much easier to emulate - and to sample for that matter - than saxes and solo strings, so there are plenty of good virtual brass instruments. But on a positive note, I was impressed with the way you used the breath controller for the brass -- really nice! Thanks again for helping me decide about SWAM. Now I want that breath controller. ;-)
@@SecondTierSound I play quite a few instruments, actually, and I know what all of them sound like. Saxophones are just harder to emulate than brass, and Swam does a poor job of it, understandably. You yourself said they have a ways to go, and you're correct.
Not for me. I was quite a fan of SWAM and AM, having bought most of their products, but as I developed more of an ear for this kind of thing I realised there is still lots of work for these to sound realistic, especially with the strings, but even the brass at the moment sound anything but. Don't get me wrong, if you are not bothered about realism and want a synthetic sound that roughly approximates the real thing but with tons of control and expression, these are great. Having used them for years I can confirm they are super expressive. But, personally, I much prefer the hybrid approach of Samplemodeling and Acoustic Samples, which gets better results in my opinion. Personally, I think audio modeling as a technology is getting ahead of itself for now, as it has not yet developed the ability to faithfully replicate the timbre of real instruments, though in some cases it gets relatively close.
As a trumpet player I'm surprised to how good the instruments sound, brass instruments are a lot harder to make them sound realistic than strings and piano's. I have sampled brass libraries that don't sound as good.
Excellent video - and great playing too! 🙂 I have the whole SWAM collection (version 2) and recently upgraded all the strings to V3 to see how they compare with the earlier version. The interface is a massive improvement, and the V3 models do sound (subjectively) better. I'm not entirely sold on the flute and the oboe (even in V3), but I do prefer the rest of the woods to any of the sampled equivalents I have. The saxophones are outstandingly good too, which is not something I thought I'd ever say! I'd be interested to know if you've tried the Sample Modeling instruments, and what you think of them.
@@SecondTierSound I have the sample modeling brass too, and really love it - so much so that I'll probably not get the SWAM brass. I'm very much tempted to get the TEC breath controller - I've been using the original Yamaha BC-1 that came with the DX7 (yes it still works, after nearly 40 years!!) but having both hands free to add vibrato, pitch bend, growl etc would be a real luxury.
There is a "Bass Tuba" and a "Tuba (Eb)," but wouldn't a tuba in Eb usually be classified as bass? So either they have two different bass tubas but no contrabass, or what they call bass is actually what would usually be classified as contrabass. Also strange how there is both a "French Horn (F)" and a "French Horn (Bb)" which seems to imply that both are single horns, but at least for the Bb horn demonstrated here, the UI shows four valves as if it were a double horn. Maybe it's a descant horn with a Bb side and a high F side. I guess if I really wanted to know, I'd have to look at what valve combinations they use for some different pitches and try to reverse engineer what the fundamentals would have to be.
Audio modeling is actually an old technology that was (and still) used in arranger keyboards. Despite its versatility, I can't really use it in my cinematic production as it's still an unrealistic sounding to me. It's acceptable to play these modeled sounds in a live performance or in a party but not in production in my opinion. In fact, you won't even believe me when I tell you that I took the direction to the sample library world to get away from the modeling technology as nothing beats a live recorded samples. About the bends, you see developers introduce bending articulations so you don't need to bend the sample and it's getting better. In the end, media music industry (film/tv/ads/games) uses live orchestra or samples from live orchestra so as a producer I really still need to use recorded samples. I am sure this technology will benefit old arranger keyboard owners more to create new sounds for themselves. Great video though but SWAM isn't for me :)
Well, you are not wrong. But if you like to perform your lines in your DAW, it speeds up workflow quite a bit. Layering these instruments with sampled ones and you receive more realistic results, often with articulations and repetitions that are difficult with sampled libraries.
@@SecondTierSound curious about what cc assignment for tilt,bite,nod. Im using pitch for nod and ,breath for breath and pan for tilt. having trouble controlling the the bite function so currently disabled. The range of sounds you are getting is remarkable
It all depends on what you assign in the instrument, and the capability of the instrument. I usually control modulation, expression and vibrato, which requires three movements. It is a matter of finding out witch one is the most natural to you. I use modulation with pitch and breath for expression, and tilt for vibrato
now compare several "modeled" vst's. like infinite series, SM Brass/strings with these swam series. Curious what the strong and weakpoints of each are. (e.g. the oboe in the swam series was not very good imho)
I honestly don't think the infinite series is there yet. It has great potential, but doesn't sound very realistic. The other company I know of that does a good job is samplemodeling, that actually used to be audiomodeling (well, it is complicated), and then there is modart that does pianoteq. I also don't think that all the sounds are good in audiomodeling, but I have also realized it really matters how you perform it, in order to make it sound good. Tricky to explain, but if you "play it more like a real instruments behaves", it sounds better. Then there can still be improvements of course. But these are the only ones so far that convince me to look into this technology, as I still tend to gravitate towards samples.
@@SecondTierSound Pianoteq has certain pianos that are pretty fantastic. I have the Aaron Venture infinite stuff and its not bad really - what I like is the ease with which it can be played in or MIDI edited in. In terms of quality of a string sound versus something sampled in a hall with other instruments, like Albion One, the Infinite Brass are much like Audio Modeling cello, which does better with some convolution or reverb. One thing that's eye opening is to take Bohemian Cello and play it alongside a SWAM Cello. Very different - when you said that Audio Modeling models do better Played in like real instruments, it struck me that Bohemian Cello is the opposite, you have to sort of rewire your brain, and it can be tricky to get a grooveless performance, but it has a natural flow that a string player would have, so long as you learn when to use its "Performer" and when to force its articulations via keyswitches. One other thing (sorry, blab, blab, blab...) Isn't Sample Modeling still on an earlier iteration of their technology, or have they been updating as much as audio modeling?
I have the SWAM saxophones and have always loved how expressive they are but have unfortunately been turned off by the tone. The alto is the weakest in my opinion and the falls articulation is unsatisfying. I saw today that the engine is updated to v3.5.1 so I plan to update and see how it feels and sounds now.
@@SecondTierSound I’d be interested to know your opinion on the latest release from acoustic samples called V Horns Saxophones. To me it’s tone is great but I wonder how it would perform with a breath controller. I personally think their falls and scoops are unnatural but it’s on my wish list. Also still considering whether to get the audio modeling woodwinds bundle but not sure how I feel about some of them like the double reeds (not to mention the price).
Gorgeous! And expensive! The strings lack tonal depth of the real thing and don’t sound quite as good as the winds and brass which sound spot-on to me. Also you can’t play the Force Theme in major, that’s just mean! 😂
Can't remember. I have made a few and mix them up. I have used indie on one which is "prerecorded" I also like ben Osterhouse libraries and often use them for these things.
I don't get it. It seems all the reviewers of these modern wind instrument plugins love to demonstrate these exaggerated dynamic possibilities by using different midi controllers.That might be appropriate for bowed string instruments. But to my ears it is pretty much exactly that which makes the saxophones and brass instruments sound artificial. Have you listened to real saxophonists? How often do they blow one note and go from very soft to very loud and back or v.v. ?
All instruments and controllers have to be mastered before you get any good results. There's no "fantastic results" from the get go, but some tools makes is easier to do.
SWAM is just not there yet. To my ears there are still unconvincing timbres which start showing up when you get in to practical composing/arranging. But one thing which is absolutely vital as with any sample system: You have to take infinite care with the way you "perform" these samples. The slightest flaw in articulation or exaggerated phrasing (such as the unrealistically quick and keyboard-like execution in some of your demonstrations) give the game away immediately. At least 50% of any convincing sample is the GREAT CARE you need in playing them. I find that the overwhelming majority of people have absolutely no idea how carefully you have to play any sample let alone these ones, especially keeping the character of each instrument's limitations.
Yes. The nice thing about these kinds of libraries is that they are so much more play-friendly. It is a lot easier to express oneself and without the need to use articulation samples. With some of these libraries I think it is good enough, definitely in context, but some of them are harder to do. I do find that the hybrid solutions do a great job here, for example acousticsamples. Cheers!
Audio modeling desperately needs artificial intelligence to adapt vst settings like dynamics velocity etc to the real violin player model. Without this, it will never sound realistic. Humans are terrible at computer settings.
One additional thing to keep in mind is that AudioModeling charges a lot for maintenance upgrades. I have the version 2.0 woodwinds. Upgrading to version 3.0 (which has a different interface, but isn't reported to sound that different) would cost me $300. That's a LOT for a product that was expensive from the start. I also have the Acoustic Samples modeled instruments, and I find I'm using them more often, these days.
I like that the SWAM trumpet can be made to sound like a Miles Davis trumpet for some classic smoky jazz club sound. Great video. Now I want a breath controller for Christmas.
I've tried a lot and SWAM has the best control over the sound. Pretty darn realistic.
This sounds incredible! Surely this is the way to go. So much more flexible than samples. As a ‘musician’ and physicist and programmer I’m really interested in the maths behind this too. Doctor Mixes video with the developers is well worth a watch too. I think the high price is well warranted given the work behind this
It's very interesting. I still think it is a little pricey, but maybe you are right. I hope it develops further
Thank your this great overview. I am thinking of starting to use AUM and SWAM as sound expansion to my Modx7+ in my band.
That sounds cool. It works well for live performances
finally an in-depth video that isn't just a short demo or introduction. i have had a developing opinion about the SWAM instruments, but have come to really like the saxophones and am planning to buy some brass in the near future. the aspect that you can "trombonize" the other brass instruments is really intruiging. thank you for this video!
Thank you. Yes, i created these videos for the reasons you implied. Cheers
I've grown quite fond of modelled instruments lately 🙂 After I learned how to use the Infinite series by Aaron Venture properly, I've almost stopped using sample instruments for brass and woodwinds for my latest mockups as they are so powerful, although there is a learning curve to getting the different parameters right and making them sound organic and not so sterile as they can sound without tweaking. Great demo and playing! Would have liked for you to show them used as a section in a composition as well as you usually do for demos, as that is very interesting as well 🙂Have got the SWAM saxophones, but not used them yet as no mockup has required saxes thus far 😛
True, you can find saxophones in orchestras, but they are indeed less common. And, yes, there are some other interesting vsts out there who use the same concept. I didn't have time for a mockup this time to be honest, but maybe i can do something about that soon.
Thank you! although i'm using the entire SWAM lineup since about a year now it was fun to watch. When it comes to strings; I must say that If mapped ergonomically you get a much more organic sound out of them - and i'm talking basic controller - not a seaboard ot the like. For example to be able to use expression (i use a pedal), bow pressure (slider), harmonics (slider) and vibrato (after touch) will get you next level. especially to be able to throw in "imperfections" like scratch or accidental harmonics - very enjoyable
I believe you. I got the feeling that the strings have to be performed more "correctly" and then they sound really good. I will experiment more with your tips.
Can you explain your setup pls; new at this, thank u
Well, what exactly? Om not sure what you mean.
Windows 11, Cubase, 88 keys, breath controller.
This is probably the best video on SWAM instruments. Samplemodeling is also excellent, some instruments sound even better, but those are sampled, and they do not have double reeds, only brass and strings, but samplemodeling also has ensemble samples. I play an EWI or Roland windcontroller so both of my hands are busy. My keyboard skills are very rusty, but I have to agree with all of your observations.
What you forgot to say as one of the reasons for liking this program is that having learned one series of gestures, such as the piano keyboard (or flute, sax etc. for wind players using a windcontroller) you can play just about every instrument in an orchestra, without spending years learning brass, or flute fingering, or using the bow for strings etc. Sure it will no match the expressiveness of acoustic instruments, even after the sounds get even closer to the real thing, because some of the playing parameters are difficult to implement easily w a keyboard (and especially w a windcontroller because both of your hands are in use). However, thanks for all the hard work creating this wonderful video !
Thanks for the praise and the great insights
I somewhat disagree with this. Yes there are some things that extremely hard to simulate. but with the advancements I see currently, if I player becomes very proficient with the Tec breath controller 2 for example and while using one hand to play the melody, the other hand can be used to control multiple other parameters. It's all about the player. A very good player using all this Tec with a physical modelling instrument that has all of the variations mappable to midi, incredible results, dare I say supernatural results can be achieved. th tec controller can control 4 things at the same time, Breath, bite, tilt and nod. Plus a minimum of two variables with the left hand and the right hand for the melody... that's a lot of expressiveness to control, but it's also difficult skill wise.
I have a ROLI Seaboard and SWAM libraries are absolutely insane. They sound soooo good and play so naturally
You can get really good results for sure
Oh ... my ... wow. I'm in love with this style of recording. I'm going to go all the way with a breath controller! This is the best demonstration I've seen with one so far. Thank you.
Cheers!
You do such a great job on these videos, both in explaining the plugin as well as demonstrating. You have great chops! Subscribed!
I think its time for me to purchase a SWAM instrument from Audio Modeling and while I’m at it, a breath controller from Tec. This company is amazing and i find that the sounds are as realistic as they are flexible.
That's pretty damn impressive! I'd love to see what some of the classical composers (like Bach 🎻 for example) would think of all this technology, it would blow their mind🧠
He he, yes probably
This is an amazing review!
So extensive and touch the real important points.
Thanks!
Thank you for letting me know! Cheers!
I would use both audiomodeling (for electric pianos, theremins, etc.) and sample libraries (both custom and from other companies).
I would also use ROM-plers, Sound Modules, Sample CDs, and live instruments.
Whatever works. It's all music, yeah
This was a great video. Im interested in Swam for all the reasons you mention. Being able to improvise and have more expressive performance
Then it is probably for you. Cheers!
The Yamaha VL70-m is a physical modeling hardware device that sounds incredible with the Patchman Music TURBO upgrade installed.
Thanks for this introduction to something I knew nothing about. Sounds good & looks fun maybe have to try out myself some time
Awesome playing. The symphonic horn sounds the most realistic i.m.o
Really great performances with the breath controller, especially the trumpet. I'm less convinced with the overall sound quality, however. The strings in particular need a lot of work to sound more realistic. This kind of technology is the wave of the future, but I think it's still very much in the development phase, so I'm holding off for now and continuing with conventional sample libraries. But I look forward to improvements in this area in the future.
It might be a long time coming... this technology is already 30 years old (Yamaha VL1 came out around '93)
Actually, I have swam cello V3 and it sounds better than in this video where all the strings sound a bit like a sax. Good video though!
Excellent musical demo . Many thanks
I just got the all in bundle and swam instruments are the best I've ever heard. Using a Tec breath controller v2 it makes instrument sound so natural. I'm shocked. I wasted way too much time programming other synths when this is nearly perfect for many instruments.
Very useful review (as with all your videos)! Thanks man!
Thank you Frank!
You play all the instruments brilliantly!
Thank you. It was fun, and with the breath controller quite inspiring.
This tech needs to be paired with a digital accordion. If Roland still made the diatonic button one I’d be finding a way to make it happen.
I have a sax from Soundpaint which uses a totally new proprietary audio format. I haven't used it much yes, but it's pretty cood and I think worth looking into.
New today to your channel….I subscribed and liked…..this video has made me want to buy the solo strings….
Welcome!😊 Also take a look at sample modelling's strings to see which one you prefer.
Great demonstration
Thank you!
Impressive technology. Didn't know about this VST at all. Thanks!
It's quite new for me too.
I have been using these for a long time including the Samplemodeling versions. At times I much prefer the Samplemodeling trumpet but I also like this SWAM Audio Modeling version too. Has a much better UI as well. I mostly use a wind controller and a keyboard sometimes. But yes, they are head and shoulders above the rest. But there are still some good sample libraries, which maybe not have the same flexibility, but sound different & interesting.
They now have the String sessions, sections so you need to review that-hint.
Really good video introduction of the instruments by the way!!
Agree on all counts, but we'll see about a future review...
Very good, balanced review. Their instruments are really great for certain usecases where you need a lot of control over the performance, but don't have real players. The one downside in my opinion is the relatively high price to value ratio. I know it's not apples to apples comparison, but in terms of value - just compare it to what some other vendors, like Spectrasonics get you for similar prices, and I use those daily. If it gets a 40-50% discount sale, I would probably get the whole bundle, but at these prices it's just not there yet in terms of value for me. I think the next big thing is going to be AI modelled instruments, that are trained on real performance samples of instruments. with optimized models, run on high end Nvidia RTX graphics cards. That would indeed be revolutionary and much closer to the real thing, but don't know if it is being worked on yet.
I also think they are a bit pricey
beautiful sounds, beautiful playing :)
Cheers!
Thank you for the very interesting review!!! Incredible how technology is going faster and faster and can reproduce reality with such details!!! Wow. I Liked most of the instruments, in particular found the brass in general, and the bassoon and clarinet quite realistic. I liked less the oboe and cello. But in general very impressive! And gorgeous your way to use the breath controller!!! I have to buy one :-) And the new approach that audiomodeling together with breath controller brings (to play instead of programming) is very musical indeed. Thank you for the great channel!! You deserve many views and subscribers!!! Christian
Yes, i also like the bread. Cheers!
Very interesting. It looks fun, though I think it's better on the wind and brass than the strings. Thanks, Sam
I agree. The strings are more difficult to get right, but it can work. Thank you!
I'm glad you made this well-done, informative video. As soon as you got past the brass and got into the saxes I knew I would never go near this thing. I play soprano sax, and the instrument you played doesn't sound remotely like a soprano sax. Tenor sax and solo strings were marginal at best, in my most un-humble opinion, in so far as sounding like the genuine instruments. To be honest, I have yet to year solo saxes that I would use in a finished piece, apart from some baritone saxes I might use in a mix. Brass is much easier to emulate - and to sample for that matter - than saxes and solo strings, so there are plenty of good virtual brass instruments. But on a positive note, I was impressed with the way you used the breath controller for the brass -- really nice! Thanks again for helping me decide about SWAM. Now I want that breath controller. ;-)
Most musicians are rarely impressed with their own sampled instrument, a part from piano.
Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound I play quite a few instruments, actually, and I know what all of them sound like. Saxophones are just harder to emulate than brass, and Swam does a poor job of it, understandably. You yourself said they have a ways to go, and you're correct.
Not for me. I was quite a fan of SWAM and AM, having bought most of their products, but as I developed more of an ear for this kind of thing I realised there is still lots of work for these to sound realistic, especially with the strings, but even the brass at the moment sound anything but. Don't get me wrong, if you are not bothered about realism and want a synthetic sound that roughly approximates the real thing but with tons of control and expression, these are great. Having used them for years I can confirm they are super expressive. But, personally, I much prefer the hybrid approach of Samplemodeling and Acoustic Samples, which gets better results in my opinion. Personally, I think audio modeling as a technology is getting ahead of itself for now, as it has not yet developed the ability to faithfully replicate the timbre of real instruments, though in some cases it gets relatively close.
Audio Modeling needs to just have YOU put out a bunch of their demo videos! Nice job playing and making full use of the options available!
He he. Perhaps. 🙂
Awesome presentation, thanks
Thank you!
As a trumpet player I'm surprised to how good the instruments sound, brass instruments are a lot harder to make them sound realistic than strings and piano's. I have sampled brass libraries that don't sound as good.
Yes, brass is really the better instruments here.
Thank you for this!
Thank you too🙂
SWAM work great with EWIs especially the wind instruments. Play them live professionally.
Great video!
Awesome!
Excellent video - and great playing too! 🙂 I have the whole SWAM collection (version 2) and recently upgraded all the strings to V3 to see how they compare with the earlier version. The interface is a massive improvement, and the V3 models do sound (subjectively) better. I'm not entirely sold on the flute and the oboe (even in V3), but I do prefer the rest of the woods to any of the sampled equivalents I have. The saxophones are outstandingly good too, which is not something I thought I'd ever say! I'd be interested to know if you've tried the Sample Modeling instruments, and what you think of them.
I very much agree with you. I've tried some of the sample modeling, and I really like the brass.
@@SecondTierSound I have the sample modeling brass too, and really love it - so much so that I'll probably not get the SWAM brass. I'm very much tempted to get the TEC breath controller - I've been using the original Yamaha BC-1 that came with the DX7 (yes it still works, after nearly 40 years!!) but having both hands free to add vibrato, pitch bend, growl etc would be a real luxury.
Winds sound pretty convincing and some of the horns, but ya know.. still synthy in fast articulations
12:01 A nod to the great Ravel!
I used to hate brass instruments, but I love French horn and trombone
Why do you hate brass instruments?
Nice
There is a "Bass Tuba" and a "Tuba (Eb)," but wouldn't a tuba in Eb usually be classified as bass? So either they have two different bass tubas but no contrabass, or what they call bass is actually what would usually be classified as contrabass. Also strange how there is both a "French Horn (F)" and a "French Horn (Bb)" which seems to imply that both are single horns, but at least for the Bb horn demonstrated here, the UI shows four valves as if it were a double horn. Maybe it's a descant horn with a Bb side and a high F side. I guess if I really wanted to know, I'd have to look at what valve combinations they use for some different pitches and try to reverse engineer what the fundamentals would have to be.
Have you used Soundpaint, and its legato instruments, including ensemble capabilities?
No, but it seems really interesting.
@@SecondTierSound I highly recommend you check it out, and those legato ensemble instruments
The brass and the saxophones sound fantastic. The strings are not yet there.
Agreed
I live This instrumentos swam
Oh this is like a Pianoteq technology?
Same concept
Sounds very impressive. Can it pull off a decent bluegrass/country fiddle?
I haven't tried to be honest. Have you checked out indiginus fiddle?
Great video. Have you tried the Sample Modeling instruments? If so, what do you think of those? I still can not decided which one to get. Thanks a lot
Yes, they are good too. None does strings really well, but brass they both do very well. The examples on their page are good, listen to those.
@@SecondTierSound Thanks a lot, yes, I'm actually looking for brass only. I'm going to take a listen to the examples
Audio modeling is actually an old technology that was (and still) used in arranger keyboards. Despite its versatility, I can't really use it in my cinematic production as it's still an unrealistic sounding to me. It's acceptable to play these modeled sounds in a live performance or in a party but not in production in my opinion. In fact, you won't even believe me when I tell you that I took the direction to the sample library world to get away from the modeling technology as nothing beats a live recorded samples. About the bends, you see developers introduce bending articulations so you don't need to bend the sample and it's getting better. In the end, media music industry (film/tv/ads/games) uses live orchestra or samples from live orchestra so as a producer I really still need to use recorded samples.
I am sure this technology will benefit old arranger keyboard owners more to create new sounds for themselves.
Great video though but SWAM isn't for me :)
So if the instruments are all mono it is not possible to play double stops with the violin instrument? That would be a problem.
You can do double stops 🙂
This is incredible for live players.really incredible.not so for composers
Well, you are not wrong. But if you like to perform your lines in your DAW, it speeds up workflow quite a bit. Layering these instruments with sampled ones and you receive more realistic results, often with articulations and repetitions that are difficult with sampled libraries.
Whoa...
Can you use the breath thing for expression over existing MIDI?
The same as any controller
fantastic. Can you tell me what your midi channel settings are for the tec controller?
You mean cc#? Anyone. You can then midi learn in your instruments. But otherwise most instruments responds well to cc1, cc11, cc2, and cc7.
@@SecondTierSound curious about what cc assignment for tilt,bite,nod. Im using pitch for nod and ,breath for breath and pan for tilt. having trouble controlling the the bite function so currently disabled. The range of sounds you are getting is remarkable
It all depends on what you assign in the instrument, and the capability of the instrument. I usually control modulation, expression and vibrato, which requires three movements. It is a matter of finding out witch one is the most natural to you. I use modulation with pitch and breath for expression, and tilt for vibrato
@@SecondTierSound thanks
@@SecondTierSoundtec supports tilt? Amazing
now compare several "modeled" vst's. like infinite series, SM Brass/strings with these swam series. Curious what the strong and weakpoints of each are. (e.g. the oboe in the swam series was not very good imho)
I honestly don't think the infinite series is there yet. It has great potential, but doesn't sound very realistic. The other company I know of that does a good job is samplemodeling, that actually used to be audiomodeling (well, it is complicated), and then there is modart that does pianoteq. I also don't think that all the sounds are good in audiomodeling, but I have also realized it really matters how you perform it, in order to make it sound good. Tricky to explain, but if you "play it more like a real instruments behaves", it sounds better. Then there can still be improvements of course.
But these are the only ones so far that convince me to look into this technology, as I still tend to gravitate towards samples.
@@SecondTierSound Pianoteq has certain pianos that are pretty fantastic. I have the Aaron Venture infinite stuff and its not bad really - what I like is the ease with which it can be played in or MIDI edited in. In terms of quality of a string sound versus something sampled in a hall with other instruments, like Albion One, the Infinite Brass are much like Audio Modeling cello, which does better with some convolution or reverb. One thing that's eye opening is to take Bohemian Cello and play it alongside a SWAM Cello. Very different - when you said that Audio Modeling models do better Played in like real instruments, it struck me that Bohemian Cello is the opposite, you have to sort of rewire your brain, and it can be tricky to get a grooveless performance, but it has a natural flow that a string player would have, so long as you learn when to use its "Performer" and when to force its articulations via keyswitches. One other thing (sorry, blab, blab, blab...) Isn't Sample Modeling still on an earlier iteration of their technology, or have they been updating as much as audio modeling?
I have the SWAM saxophones and have always loved how expressive they are but have unfortunately been turned off by the tone. The alto is the weakest in my opinion and the falls articulation is unsatisfying. I saw today that the engine is updated to v3.5.1 so I plan to update and see how it feels and sounds now.
I agree that the saxes are good but some better than others, and there is still a lot to be desired
@@SecondTierSound I’d be interested to know your opinion on the latest release from acoustic samples called V Horns Saxophones. To me it’s tone is great but I wonder how it would perform with a breath controller. I personally think their falls and scoops are unnatural but it’s on my wish list. Also still considering whether to get the audio modeling woodwinds bundle but not sure how I feel about some of them like the double reeds (not to mention the price).
@@markdavenport2613 I think those demos sound very good.
Gorgeous! And expensive! The strings lack tonal depth of the real thing and don’t sound quite as good as the winds and brass which sound spot-on to me. Also you can’t play the Force Theme in major, that’s just mean! 😂
He he. Agreed, on all accounts
OMG! I just went to their site. $750 for Woodwinds?! $600 for solo brass. This must be a joke. I'll just keep my superb samplers and vsts.
Hello mate!
Hello!
!!!👍
貴方が使っているブレスコントロール・マウスピースは、どうやって入手可能ですか？
Where can I get the breath control mouthpiece you are using?
The company is called Tec. It's a swedish company. They might not sell outside Europe though.
off topic, but what's the song in your intro?
No worries. Just a simpler song I created for my videos. Nice for backgrounds but a little repetitive. Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound I was asking because I like the strings, is that recorded or a library?
Can't remember. I have made a few and mix them up. I have used indie on one which is "prerecorded"
I also like ben Osterhouse libraries and often use them for these things.
I don't get it. It seems all the reviewers of these modern wind instrument plugins love to demonstrate these exaggerated dynamic possibilities by using different midi controllers.That might be appropriate for bowed string instruments. But to my ears it is pretty much exactly that which makes the saxophones and brass instruments sound artificial. Have you listened to real saxophonists? How often do they blow one note and go from very soft to very loud and back or v.v. ?
All instruments and controllers have to be mastered before you get any good results. There's no "fantastic results" from the get go, but some tools makes is easier to do.
interesting. damn their price tag is high though
Look out for a sale. Sure, is not native instrument prices, I agree. Cheers!
Pirate
SWAM is just not there yet. To my ears there are still unconvincing timbres which start showing up when you get in to practical composing/arranging. But one thing which is absolutely vital as with any sample system: You have to take infinite care with the way you "perform" these samples. The slightest flaw in articulation or exaggerated phrasing (such as the unrealistically quick and keyboard-like execution in some of your demonstrations) give the game away immediately. At least 50% of any convincing sample is the GREAT CARE you need in playing them. I find that the overwhelming majority of people have absolutely no idea how carefully you have to play any sample let alone these ones, especially keeping the character of each instrument's limitations.
Yes. The nice thing about these kinds of libraries is that they are so much more play-friendly. It is a lot easier to express oneself and without the need to use articulation samples. With some of these libraries I think it is good enough, definitely in context, but some of them are harder to do. I do find that the hybrid solutions do a great job here, for example acousticsamples.
Cheers!
Audio modeling desperately needs artificial intelligence to adapt vst settings like dynamics velocity etc to the real violin player model. Without this, it will never sound realistic. Humans are terrible at computer settings.
NI B4 was brilliant!
Wil swam work with osmose?
I don't know about it actually.