A Look at Fair Haven (Voyager)
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Opinionated Voyager Episode Guide looks at that one, yes, that one. After years of working to make us like him Tom Paris undoes all that good will by creating the village of Fair Haven, Ireland. That's not enough though, Janeway decides to start tweaking one of the characters in the hopes he might start tweaking her back.
"Delete the wife" is the best out of context line in Voyager.
I actually extended Janeway's three rules into a lot more... one of them is "Never be afraid to delete the wife. "
It's one of my favorite lines.
I KNOW, RIGHT?!?! XD
Makes Janeway sound like a home wrecker, doesn't it?
It's a definite favorite, but I am partial to "there's coffee in that nebula!"
A book is only as good as its writer.
Since Paris is the holo-novelist for this setting, we have finally found something Mr. JACK OF ALL TRADES, isn't an expert at.
👏
Maybe it was originally intended as an exciting murder mystery, but the Doctor blew off the confession and the computer had to wing it!
@@travis7294 like how the algorithm had to create a whole new branching story in the lower decks episode "Crisis Point 2: Paradoxus"
Considering the entire town became self aware, I'd say he was a success
I wouldn't blame the author on this one - Tom develops this for the VOY crew and they can't handle more than this boring stuff ...
He has things like Captain Proton for his own amusement, which are way more interesting.
I guess he should have read that book on Vulcan poetics that Tuvok kept pushing...
“Hey you guys wanna do virtual combat with cyborg dinosaurs who want to invade Mars and steal its super models bikini goddesses?”
“No, I wanna hang in a super boring fake 19th century Irish village as accurate as a Disney movie about Asian nations.”
“… sure bro whatever.”
At least Tom's Captain Proton programs were fun.
Voyagers crew is way too boring for cool things like this ... even if they had the budget and good CGI.
Now I'm just picturing Ensign Kim standing slackjawed in the holodeck playing space CoD and drinking replicated cosmic dew.
@@planescaped Harry would fail on the easiest difficulty and give up after an hour ...
Eh, they live on a starship that's in danger of exploding at least once every other week. I don't find it hard to belive they might want something a bit more low-key in their off time.
It is a very interesting shift in sentiment, from Barclay's intro to this episode. From "A little fantasy is okay, as long as you don't overdo it" to "If you really commit to this game of make-believe hard enough, then you can just live inside of your fantasy. Why not?" From good practical advice to the open endorsement of living in a state of self-delusion.
I suppose Voyager's dire, nigh-hopeless situation is about as understandable an excuse for desiring full-time escapism as any.
@@panickedpaladin3966 Eh, Battle Star Galactica had a dire, nigh-hopeless situation. Voyager had the Star Trek status quo complete with reset button, along with a never-ending supply of photon torpedoes and replacement shuttlecrafts. They paid lip-service to the supposed issue of having finite resources early on, but then they pretty much forgot about it.
@@zardox78 Not wrong, Voyager's crew would have saved themselves a lot of worry if they had known they were being written by lazy writers lol
Maybe Harry will start his own barbershop quartet, and call it "The Eternal Ensigns".
I would go to that DragonCon panel, just for the novelty of it.
@@Jalu3I'd be the bass.
You know what would've been a fun way to handle one of the one-episode love interests in order to make them less predictable? Have them be a shapeshifter and just keep the character and have them played by a different person each episode said character is in.
...Holy shit, that's brilliant. Maybe even have it be something outside of their control to further justify why they keep doing it. lol
@@Jygerthe2nd So, basically a Timelord whose regeneration is on the fritz? That's not too crazy really
Ooh! Shapeshifter who has no fixed default and has a habit of changing in their sleep and can never recreate a form properly. They could cast a few vaguely similar looking actors and give them all the same haircut/wig, spend a whole episode subplot with them trying different variations before coming to the conclusion that it's better to just go with whatever shape comes naturally that day than the weird uncanny valley almost clones.
A shapeshifter as a recurring character in star trek? Don't be daft, that would never work. Next you're going to suggest they have a show set on a space station!
Or just Jeffrey Combs.
"Father, help me! I've killed again!"
"P*ss off. I'm off the clock. Go away until I'm back on the clock and HAVE to give a sh*t"
Basically how I heard it
"Come back later! First i have to deal with an insane Captain - again."
whoever died was a hologram and doesn't count, it's a slice of life period piece, not a Dixon Hill novel
I wonder if that's the plot hook for a sidequest that Tom Paris put in. But because nobody's activated it, the crimes don't go any further than that.
To be fair to the doctor, killing is a rather casual thing on Voyager
If I'm beheading stuff to decorate a pike, I'm damn well going to take the one from this episode's premise, give it a little wave, Vir Cotto style, and use it as a reminder that some story ideas come with too high a price. In idiocy, anticontinuity, and cringe.
Life on Voyager is probably terrifying enough, maybe they yearn for some monotony.
Neelix: Good news, I'm gonna have Fair Haven running 24/7!
Tom: But Neelix, I...
Neelix: Very exciting! (yammers to himself and walks off)
Crewman Mitchell: Hey Tom!
Tom turns to Mitchell: Oh hey man, how are you?
Mitchell: Not bad, just chillin out on deck 15.. so uh, this program have any cool quests?
Tom: Nope... I was actually just designing a complex social sim to see what I could do with the holodeck for a fun project, I'm trying to push my holoprogramming skills. Fair Haven is one of the most complex city simulators ever made as far as I know
Mitchell: That's pretty cool, I love the Captain Proton programs, but they could do with feeling more lived in.
Tom: Exactly, just didn't expect Neelix to turn it into everyone's involuntary weekend...
Mitchell: On the bright side we can eat replicated irish food all weekend instead of more goddamned leola root stew, the acid reflux I get from that stuff...
Tom: I hadn't thought about that... maybe this won't be so bad after all.
"let Janeway's toes curl and maybe we will have peace in our time." that's true and proves that Chakoty seriously dropped the ball.
Yeah Tattoo Chuck seriously let everyone down on that one. Although not being a hologram and not having a dog I guess he was at a disadvantage.
@@YourCapyPal_3DPipes1999 follow me on this one: holographic Irish setter, stick the mobile emitter to it. All the pet and none of the mess, and Chakoty could have a dog and hologram in the same instance and he might stand more of chance.
@@jodieg6318 I think I'm digging what your dishing... I'm liking where this is goin..... Uh huh.. Ok you're hired! Hell, you'll fit right in! We pride ourselves on just those kinds of ideas at UPN!
@@jodieg6318Too bad Janeway didn't respond to "The Q and the Gray" by telling the two Q's "take your domestic dispute off my bridge. And leave the puppy."
Ironically, Voyager actually had fewer holodeck-focused episodes overall than TNG and even DS9. It's just that the holodeck episodes they *did* make tend to stand out for all the wrong reasons.
Maybe they had less episodes where the Holodeck is the main focus (but i'm not really sure if that's the case, especially with DS9), but i'm sure they used it a lot more often in the background. Like having people discuss things in Sandrine's bar in the first seasons and so on.
Voyager made their Holodeck-escapades also stand out more in the beginning by the fact that the writers wanted the ship to have an energy shortage but at the same time also wrote Holodeck-episodes or scenes.
Which lead to the infamous "the energy of the Holodeck generators cannot be converted to power the other systems"-solution ...
I think DS9 had fewer holodeck/holosuite stories compared to Voyager for most of its run, but then overtook Voyager near the end thanks to Take Me Out to the Holosuite and all those Vic Fontaine episodes. Though you're probably right that Voyager has more holodeck *scenes* compared to DS9.
@@MrCaerbannog 😅 I don't know why, but despite me liking the Vic-episodes or scenes, i never counted them as holodeck-episodes. Maybe that's BECAUSE more often than not "holodeck-episode" means something bad, like this trainwreck and it's follow-up.
I also wouldn't count TNGs "Hollow Pursuit" as a holodeck-episode. It has many scenes in the holodeck, but the main focus are Barclays problems.
"Heroes and Demons"
"Projections"
"Twisted"
"Persistence of Vision"
"Worst-Case Scenario"
"Revulsion" (kinda)
"Concerning Flight" (kinda)
"The Killing Game"
"Extreme Risk" (kinda)
"Bride of Chaotica"
"Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy" (kinda)
"Fair Haven"
"Spirit Folk"
"Inside Man" (kinda)
"Body and Soul" (kinda)
"Flesh and Blood" (kinda)
"Renaissance Man" (kinda)
I'd say they had more than their share of holodeck havoc, but that's partially because they had a holographic main character.
24:07 " The setting of Fair Haven isn't as offensive as Up the Long Ladder, but then again, what could be?" Code of Honor...?
Sub Rosa.
Probably a prime example of how the original Voyager premise was made just completely irrelevant, between the nonsensical portrayal of the village and Poor Dumb Harry not getting his priorities straight between the safety of the ship and his crewmates VS a nonexistent village. Janeway's utterly callous DELETE THE WIFE though is a classic.
As for the assessment of fans and the stigma of having no life, honestly in my opinion I feel that can still apply today in some cases, particularly those online and hateful trolls who have nothing better to do but belittle and insult strangers for daring to be happy.
They can be happy all they want. But they don't get to demand everyone else take part in their fantasies.
And one more time Harry failed them all ...
Not romantic but when I finished Red Dead Redemption 2 I found that I was missing Arthur, the main character of that game. I spend dozens upon dozens of hours with that rough, cynical but also very likeable character that I had grown very fond of. After the game I felt that I was missing him in a way you miss a friend who moved away.
Fair Haven could've really been a great story device, campy Irish stereotypes aside. The crew could've used it like Vic's on DS9 and aired out their loneliness and stress from being stuck on Voyager. Janeway certainly wouldn't be the ONLY one seeking holographic companionship in this crew.
But no. Fair Haven is... Fair Haven. At least we got one of the most sinister lines in all of Trek from it.
"Delete the wife."
Can't remember the episode but that would be a great placement for Chuck's other hysterical crack "well there's a voice that could freeze coffee" 😭💀💀
I agree, it could have worked ... but this is Voyager, where good ideas go to die.
@@lordmontymord8701 oh an die they do, with great relish.
14:57 I've actually started playing ME Legendary Edition for the first time just recently (I know, always late to the party, lol), and knowing how the story will conclude, I've thought about this long and hard. And yeah, I could do it. I could choose the option to save my FemShep, to let her live... ... ...but I know, when the moment comes, I won't be able to, for one reason: I couldn't kill EDI. Not only is she one of my favourite characters, I just know I couldn't do that to Joker. Even if neither one of them is real.
Same here. Synthesis ending for me.
@@ptonpc Also, my personal headcanon is that Traynor, whether she dated Shepard or not, eventually hooks up with a synthetic of some sort post-game, so by definition, Destroy can't happen for her to do so. XD
For added insult to injury, Kate Mulgrew is Irish-American. I'm pretty sure she said that line through gritted teeth
Perhaps she should have put her foot down. Colm Meaney refused to act opposite a leprechaun character because he found the stereotype offensive, so they rewrote the character.
"Scrape the residual ions off the sonic showers if you have to!" is a better way of saying, "We need more power!" than the typical crap of calling out random numbers and suggesting they try rerouting from this-and-that or remodulating or repolarizing the whatever. If they were using the line at a more justifiably desperate time than just "space anomaly of the week" I would absolutely stand by it.
I want to see his Skyrim mod order since he is bringing it up so much.
I wonder if Fair Haven was supposed to be their version of Vic Fountain, a recurring holoprogram where the crew would go to socialize and have some fun. But it wasn't nearly as good as Vic so they kind of dropped it.
Voyager actually had recurring Holodeck-programs before DS9 got Vic. There was the French bar in the first two seasons, also developed by Tom, Captain Proton and then there was the Victorian era program where Janeway played the governess. That one was even intended to be a long running mystery story, before someone realized that a ghost story on the Holodeck isn't very interesting, because it's virtual anyway ...
So i'm sure Haven was also intended as a bigger part, but i'm glad they didn't do this - in Vics case it worked because he was a interesting character.
@@lordmontymord8701 He was also a specially made, sapient/self-aware/living hologram, a'la the Doctor, rather than a random video game character. Between this, Spirit Fold, the Doctor falling for a shield maiden in Harry's Beowulf program and mourning an imaginary daughter in the one B'elanna made for him, Voyager really had a bad habit of forgetting that the Doctor was meant to be a special case.
@@dupersuper1938 The Doctor is a very special case indeed ... so special, his programm cannot even be copied. You can transfer it like when the mobile emitter is used or when he was sent to the Prometheus, but it can be only in one place.
I mean there was the backup from "Living Witness", but we are 🤐 about that one ...
I always joke that Zimmerman must have created some kind of soul, not just an advanced AI. That's why every EMH is an individual, even if they start with the same basic program.
And the funniest part: For the episode where the DS9-crew needs to "save" Vic, the writers even gave a good explanation why they had to do this. His creator had built in this special scenario, and if it is not resolved in a certain amount of time, Vics memories would be erased. You can restart him, but he just won't be the same. And his program is protected, so they couldn't crack it in time. And even if there was a backup, it would have had the same issue.
TNG and DS9 also had their problems in holodeck-episodes, but the VOY-writing staff said "hold my beer: we will have a holographic crewmember - and he will sometimes act like a computer program and sometimes he's more like Data!"
@@lordmontymord8701 "The Doctor is a very special case indeed ... so special, his programm cannot even be copied."...except that time in Living Witness, when it could.
@@dupersuper1938 Thats why i said we are not talking about that one 😁
My personal explanation: We know the people on Voyager aren't exactly Starfleets best, so maybe they never realized there was a backup, because they thought this would be impossible anyway 😉
Ya know some say its a mistake that the guy is desperately coming to confess breaking the 5th commandment in their times. I think its funnier if it isn't.
I actually like this episode. People over at Cytube made a custom Voyager intro using scenes from this episode with a Violin version of Voyager's intro.
Fits perfectly.
this is like going into Second Life and asking, "but does the chatbot with the anime girl avatar really love me?"
I came back again to listen to Chuck confess his love for Janeways loins and her love life details.
Spidercowboy, let's goooo
"The things that aren't real make real feelings." Amen to that.
Honestly, that depends on how one defines "real".
The holodeck is designed to be perceived with the five (I say six) senses. The characters in the show that interact with the holodeck remember what happened on the holodeck (as an example, Picard recalling the holodeck programs we've seen: "Woodlands and ski slopes, figures that fight, and fictional characters with which we can interact"). Because they created memories, one could argue they are real. Are movies real if they are not actively being watched? Are songs real if no one is listening to them? They do evoke feelings out of people; interesting, since the events of the movie or song are not happening to them, unlike the holodeck.
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, or see it, is the tree not real?
Here's a thought experiment. Is Data real (in the galaxy of Star Trek)?
Good to see this one on RUclips. Holodeck reviews are always fun.
Ok, hear me out. I know this episode is more about the holdeck characters making you feel emotion and that emotion still being valid. But I think this and quite a few other episodes bring up interesting questions about holdeck characters. They treat some like a computer program, and others they consider to have sentience... Like Moriarty, or those Star fleet members created for the Hirogen. I always question where they draw the line. What makes something sentient? We could say a holodeck character isn't sentient, because they programmed it to react to stimuli both physically and emotionally. Is that not us? Our DNA programs us, and chemicals are created in our bodies, nerves are activated, and we respond to stimuli, in physical and emotional ways. We feel like we're in love because of oxytocin being produced. I mean, holograms have subroutines instead of chemicals creating their reactions, but I feel like that's the different between a carbon based lifeform and a silicon based lifeform.. They're both still lifeforms.I know there is the Turing test, and I kind of wish they had brought it up or used it in the Dr, or even Data's trial. She didn't program Sullivan to fall in love with her. She just removed his wife and made him a little taller. Well, she did give him an interest in poetry. But these were all to make him more interesting to her, not the other way around. I think as soon as something starts emotionally reacting, with love, sadness, anger, it's sentient. When it starts wanting. You can program a computer to give a response to certain things, but my Google assistant isn't crying and drinking holobeer. I think they've actually created sentience on the holodeck, the holograms respond and make decisions too well. They just, turn a blind eye to it, you know how society hates having to give rights to new groups of people. They just don't want to deal with the paperwork. And they definitely don't want to stop doing weird pervy stuff to the holograms.
I think the 5th commandment joke is the best part of this episode.
Love your videos; thank you for keeping this going!
"Delete the wife" - the best line in all of Star Trek. LOL
wow before I saw this video and the one you made on spirit folk? I genuinely thought they were the same episode lol
Janeway programming her own toyboy .
Neelix: A beanbag chair with a tumor 🤣
I could be wrong but didn't the Doctor gain his sentience, self awareness, and personhood merely as a byproduct of being on for a long time? It didn't require some weird alien anomaly or special programming to make him that way. Aside from running out of memory on the ship, there's no reason any of the other adaptive holoprograms wouldn't evolve the same way.
So, no, none of these characters were real people like the Doctor but they could be with no real effort so it's not necessary committing to a fantasy to fall in love with one.
Yes, but he also had a complex enough program to do so. Like the Terminator said in T2: he's a learning computer. Leaving regular holodeck characters on so they develop sapience is as likely to work as leaving your Playstation on so the video game characters gain sapience. We see what happens when sapient holograms try to "upgrade" normal holoprograms in the later 2 parter in which the holographic prey that the Hirogen made try to "liberate" simple, non-living holograms. They overloaded their programs and broke them.
Top o' the mornin' to ye from Ireland....
0:44 let's be honest Star Trek as a whole seems to really hate the Irish
I did like how Worf said that an Irish wake was "almost Klingon" in a complementary way. 🙂
@@Jygerthe2nd what episode was that I'm trying to remember
@@Jygerthe2nd Does that qualify as an insult by the writers given how the Klingons were handled during the TNG era onwards?
@@michaelfields3951 Sound of Her Voice. DS9.
@@Jygerthe2nd thank you
-The comment about the holodeck finally being compatible with the rest of the ship.
Well, Season 3 of Picard shows that's not the case, though they try to explain why (if it works or not is up to you).
Things could always be worse, after all you could be Harry!
Man... Fair Haven was a blight on Voyager, it's such a dopey part of the show.
And yet we were SO BORED that it was at least something new, even if it was stupid.
EDIT: Also, yeah. The whole drama with Fair Haven's program being ruined is so stupid. Why didn't they shut it down before the plot wave hit?!
Ya know, for a very brief moment, that EMP probably does make that microwave far more powerful than it should be
On the inverse warp field thing, keep in mind that warp drive needs more than just a subspace field. So, creating one to act as an anchor might be doable but going to warp speed isn't. Should have been better written.
RE 5th Commandment and 10 Our Fathers...keep in mind that Tom wrote the program, and he likely didn't do any research into religious customs and beliefs when crafting the "minister" position for the EMH.
It works, though, because the character came across as a bit of an idiot prior to this interchange. The guy clearly has no idea which commandment is which. What makes it funny is that the doctor clearly doesn’t either. The irony is that it works within the context of the holo-novel. To the other characters, the doctor is just saying, “Yes, yes, you got drunk again. Here’s your penance.”
Man, I'd tell Janeway to drop me off at the nearest civilized planet and get a job as a space janitor after a few years of her command...
The best part of holographic "relations" is the ability to make your partner disappear seconds afterward.
The journey sucked.... And lucky us so did the destination....
Well hell that is some bullseye skewering of the hellship and sad enterprise that is VOY in so few words Chuck... Can kind of sum up the whole series now can't it??
Oh shit you done did it. You watched/rewatched Fair Haven. Why do you punish yourself Mr. Detritus???
You know you don't have to. I mean I'm in a Voyager hate phase having just discovered VOY six months ago and am just now processing thru all my subsequent 6 stages of disappointment/rage/PTSD as a result - but YOU don't have to do this to yourself.
Please, Mr Scattered Bits of Matter, it's not too late to get help.
Side note: Kate was really cute here but who else misses the snappy 90s ponytail? Just me? Ok thought so
Side side note: Does watching bad Voyager (isn't that redundant??) qualify as cruel and unusual punishment??? Discuss.
So you are a freshling? Ah, i carry my VOY PTSD around since it originally aired ... fun times. ENT at least eased some of my pain. When i watched that show i wanted Crazy Jane back, because for all her insane decisions she at least had some sane moments unlike Jonathan Archer, a way stupider descendant of Sterling Archer 😉
@@lordmontymord8701 yeah I am. Just got into DS9 and VOY last year sometime and ENT I think in '21. But I grew up with TNG and was a fan, but just never got into the other ones until now for some reason. Guess I had some extra time on my hands like a lot of people since 2020 so after following DISC I thought I'd look into the other ones. It has been fun and rewarding, but also like a getting a slow moving brain injury, depending. Still finishing off DS9 in a haphazard manner. I'm very impressed with their overall craft level over there, even if they miss the mark sometimes.
Too bad I can't say that about Knockoff Brand Z trek over here. Is it weird I really like ENT tho??? I only hated the finale for obvious reasons and the stupid MU outfits for the female characters. I mean it had its flaws but overall I was impressed. You didn't like Archer? Lol
@@YourCapyPal_3DPipes1999 Well a lot of people hate Archer, especially the one from season 1 and 2. I mean he got better later on, but before that? 🤮
The problem is not that his decisions are sometimes ... let's say questionable. And it's not even his hate of the Vulcans. Having a character making mistakes is ok and character grow is a great thing.
But like Janeway in many episodes his actions are framed in a way where we as the audience were supposed to agree. The writers didn't intend him to come of as spiteful (to the Vulcans), inexperienced and so on ... in fact we were even told in the pilot that he is a skilled diplomat. Did you see that in his actions on screen?
In fact Bakulas good acting even made it worse for me because he portrayed Archer as a man who has clearly anger issues - again, never really addressed by the producers/writers.
There were a lot of ways to make this work: For example if you say he was the guy in charge of the Warp 5 programm and oversaw Enterprises developement, so he was put in charge of the ship even if this requires totally different skills (a bit like the Peter Principle). So he fails a lot, which is aknowledged. He even realizes that himself.
And then he either grows with help from T'Pol into the Captain he is supposed to be or he leaves the ship because the pressure is too much for him.
When Discovery started i had a lot of problems with that show too, but one thing i liked was the portrayal of Lorca. He really wasn't a normal Starfleet-Captain with high morals. They even explained why that was the case, with him loosing his previous ship at the start of the war with the Klingons. His sinister actions were interesting.
And then they ruined it by the twist that he was just the Lorca from the Mirror Universe, where everybody is just crazy ...
🙁
@@lordmontymord8701 yeah the MU business with Lorca was a cool twist, I didn't see it coming at the time, and the actor who plays him is a very strong actor, so he sold it very very well I thought, but yeah considering they chose not to keep him around, {which I usually hate for a character bec it's lazy and easy (unless it fits, occasionally it does)} and while I liked some aspects of the MU plotline, I also found it an iffy decision that he couldn't simply be one of our guys. There would have been more potential there. Perhaps they could have found another way to tie in a MU arc.
Yeah everyone's pretty batshit in the MU. Altho I can fanwank hyper-aggressiveness and violence being seen as a virtue in a screwed up culture (Klingons but taken up to an 11 I guess), and the military self-selecting for the bloodthirstiest, they still could have stood to tone that aspect of it down.
I think with normal-length seasons DISC could have been better. They rushed thru a lot it felt to me. I felt I was watching cliff's notes. It was ok, not great, had some interesting moments but altho I appreciate the heavy serialization, I think with the ground they wanted to cover, half-seasons weren't going to cut it. I think that's my main complaint about it, Bec if they changed that I believe most of the other weaknesses would have corrected themselves automatically. I feel a lack of total runtime was the main problem. Also the choice for the Burn was a real letdown. A guy getting sad and screaming is a dumb as rocks reason to end all space travel in the damn galaxy. I really liked the episode otherwise but yeah that was just dumb and a really poor way to resolve the mystery they had built up all season.
@@lordmontymord8701 well I never accept stupid writing guff from anyone. Archer blows it a few times that's true and I fully let him have it (in my uh, head) when I see it. It was frustrating to see that and I didn't appreciate that kind of shit, as you say, just like on VOY. I never like stupid writing, it always upsets me to see it, I just try to put it aside as rightfully rejected as move past it
Thankfully, iirc, it only seemed to happen a small enough number of times with Archer overall it wasn't unbearable. Perhaps you felt it was more frequent but luckily for me it wasn't as glaring or as egregious or aggressively, consistent and outrageously OBNOXIOUS as with Janeway (Jeri Taylor must have seen herself as one clever broad "look at how I'm gaslighting these stupid audience rubes NOBODY can see thru this kind of three-dimensional literary chess nobody! )
To be fair, if Harry was carrying his self loathing everywhere, I'd expect him to have a physique like a Rob Liefeld character, with a tiny head on top of a body built like a Transformers combiner team.
It's not self loathing, it's the loathing that everyone else piles on him. He'd need a Malon waste freighter to handle that sheer mass and level of toxicity.
I’ve always been a fan of Voyager and even I can’t stand this episode!!
There's always been an issue with consistency, continuity.
Networks hate continuity because they want syndication money.
Season 3 ep 18 followed by season 5 ep 21 next week, then se 01...plug n play at random.
Putting characters in a bubble and having them bounce off each other can only go so far.
Conflict builds drama.
The crew vs the ship falling apart. High warp at extended run time for months? Ok
I suppose the female leads and PMS could certainly fill a few episodes. Harry Kim and a young mans libido had a episode or two. Crewman vs Crewman... Or externat threat of the week.
Romance of the week.
For twenty two episodes it's possible.
Having Q drop in to rescue ratings?
Ok once a season? Or every other season.
Either the crew outclass the external threat in which case it is no threat.
The threat outclassed the crew can be fruitful, but then defeated in 45 mins?
Or the crew is marooned and is forced to go primative and we get Lost.
No more space ship.
Or follow whoever took the ship on thier adventure.
I like your examination in universe.
Lorerunner is more dry examination both in universe and out.
Mulgrew took the role as she loved the idea of a strong independent woman lead character.
Then the blonde bombshell is added midrun for sex appeal.
How does one maintain appeal to the core fan base and introduce new audiences.
DS9 at least didn't rewrite the laws of physics each episode and introduced story arc.
Not that those writers didn't fail from time to time.
I imagine it's partly a matter of time crunch.
Take in scripts, find the decent ones then rewrite to screenplay and polish and film it.
The holodeck is an amazing piece of technology that has limitless potential for storytelling.
So why is it that at least 90% of all episodes that feature it extensively suck ass? It's like most writers for Trek absolutely despise the very concept of the holodeck and want to make it look like the worse thing ever.
Maybe one has to be a husband to get this episode. Women try to change men. From our facial hair, our careers, what we eat, drink, etc. It doesn't work. We are who we are. Janeway realized that when she said that when she reprograms Michael, it works. Not so in real life. I believe that was the point the episode was making. Let him snore.
I wish they'd had a minor character like Ayala or Carey show up with a sword and be all "Hey, I booked the holodeck 2 weeks ago!" only to be told to screw off so Janeway can cosplay.
If we judge characters by the emotions they create in us, then Neelix is the greatest character of Star Trek, as he created the strongest emotions in the audience. The emotions Neelix creates im his audience, including Chuck, are off the scale, albeit on the wrong side...
Given the audience's propensity for Harry abuse, I'd put him high on the list as well.
@@oddish4352, usually shows for Harry Kim fans are age restricted and on websites with much more naked people than Voyager could afford. I'm pretty sure that if they ever made a Naomi Wildman birthday party episode, Janeway would say something like this:
"Replicator couldn't make a piñata, but fortunately ensign Kim likes candies. Torres, hoist him up!"
Americans love doing Irish accents...
It sucks that we are near universally bad at it
It could have been interesting if they had taken the route of "I'm the captain, I can't afford human relationships like this with my crew. But it gets lonely". This wasn't even filler material. It's about the same level as Sub Rosa.
Except Sub Rosa was funny...
@@dupersuper1938 Not to Scottish people! I remember watching it with friends and we all cringed. "Ohh Aye The Nooo! We got these Stanes Fray AbeerrdEEEeennnn!"
"Dunnae light tha candel! Yer dewmed! Dewmed!"
I really, REALLY HATE this episode. Just another example of Voyager not trying!
God so many years of that to choose from tho where does one start NOT to find that??? talk about an exhausting task
Whoever thought this episode was a good idea was a feckin' eejit.
Dude is so jealous of Sullivan it's ridiculous 😂
The sad thing is that this isn't even the worst depiction of the Irish in Star Trek.
That village isn't authentic, not nearly enough starving zombie-like wretches!
Bingo!!!! I was just thinking my god, these delightful rustics look WAY too well-fed. so much for realism
Nice going janeway
I mean everyone knows it was illegal for any irish to ever be happy..... The very land refused to nurture their crops while evil British lords ate all their children
Geez what a rube good going janey
This was the episode where I finally gave up on the mediocrity that was ST: Voyager. It's plainly obvious here that the show had truly run out of creative ideas. The show's premise is a lone starship lost in an unknown region of space, and you choose to make a rom-com episode set in an Irish town?!? Really?!?
It's stupid on multiple levels. The whole idea that they could afford to constantly keep the holodeck running, despite chronic power shortages on the ship, because of made-up technobabble reasons. The tired Irish stereotypes. But most of all, it showed how painfully "middle America" this show's ideas were: of all the possible environments the Voyager crew could set their fantasy playground in, they chose a human town of all white folks? What about the non-human (and non-white human) members of the Voyager crew - surely they'd want something else? Ugh.
Nothing in this relates to Ireland, makes me so angry to see these steryotypes and accents thst were created by americans are still perpetuated. You my as well get the characters to sing Mammy.
Gadzooks! If it's said on tv, then this has to be authentically Irish! And anyone who says otherwise is ignorant and racist!
Sardónach.
Lmaoo
Oh please please translate for me
@@YourCapyPal_3DPipes1999 Sardonic.
@@ImperatorPenguin huh. Who woulda thought?
This is such an awful show.
I blame two people primarily, Taylor and Berman. Put 99% of it on their shoulders and 1% on other hacks like Biller. Hacks aren't great but a show in non-insane hands at the top can stand it's share of bad episodes, because it won't be bad overall, but if the people at the top are nutfucks and none the writers will stand up to them... WELL then your show is fucked.
Welcome to VOY.