Opinionated Voyager Episode Guide watches while they reason out, 'If one Borg improves our ratings, what if we add a bunch more?!' See more videos at sfdebris.com
"On Voyager, the quickest way to get a job is to protest how much you'd suck at it." That or be Tom Paris, the man who siphoned off everyone else's meager competence.
Icheb was such a great character. He had such possibilities, and not just for himself. He had fantastic scenes with Seven. But he was the only aspect of this episode that really mattered in the long run (the virus getting a second episode I guess, but again that episode had more to do with Icheb in my opinion). Edit: Picard did our boy Icheb dirty
i mean, anything is possible, sense we have absolutely no continuation of star trek after voyager returns to the alpha quadrant. nothing canon anyhow. Absolutely nothing.
@@owlsayssouth all I’m going to say is that scene made me go from “okay, this show isn’t great, but at least it’s better than Discovery.” To “That’s it, I’m done!” In the time it took to view. Not watched anything since.
Having never watch Star Trek Picard, Discovery, or any of the new movies, and legit knowing next to nothing about it, I feel quite happy in that I have no idea what you guys are referencing. Nor do I wanna know. My decision to blank Nu-Trek and Nu-Star Wars has only made me happier. I knew when Disney bought SW that the stuff they were going to do with it was nothing I wanted to see, and that goes double when I heard of Trek's reboots and new shows. I remember when someone I know teasingly spoiled Star Wars for me and their reaction when I gave them a disinterested shrug as if they'd just informed me of the latest sportball happening. I don't fume over Picard and Discovery as they're meaningless to me. They're elseworld stories and the last Trek that mattered was Enterprise.
The thing about the Borg baby was that it sort of spoke to a concept of the Borg that isn’t really explored, that the Borg are about assimilating a species biological distinctiveness as well as the technological one. Since drones probably don’t have sex any Borg baby is probably made from sex cells the collective has access to, do the Borg breed drones of specific species for specific purposes? Do they maybe create hybrids of multiple different species to create a kind of biological ‘perfection’ to match the technological one? The implications are fascinating and horrifying, I’m a little sad that the Borg became just about technology rather than the terrifying fusion they started out as
We had Borg babies in "Q Who", but they were never seen again. But i don't think that this baby was an hommage to that episode, since it was meant to be assimilated from some species. I really love that they completely forgot about the baby - even when the other kids except Icheb left the ship, the baby was nowhere to be seen ...
I always liked the idea that cloning and or breeding borgs in a sense was in practice as the main way to increase their drones for most of their existence, with long slow assimilations like we saw with Picard being reserved for key individuals, such as first exposures or people they really want the knowledge of. Then as nano probe technology improved, they started assimilating individuals on a more massive scale and reserved making borg for filling holes in their force. That could be why the greater number of babies around tng, also why Picard's assimilation seemed to take longer than usual, and why Hugh was just called a young borg with what his base species was being not important, and him having never experienced individuality before.
At least this time there was a good explanation why the Cube lost against Voyager ... Didn't need to bring in a "Super-Cube" like the Tactical Cube, because a massive ship that was able to destroy dozens of Starfleet ships was no match for Voyager alone ...
@@lordmontymord8701 seriously it was so dumb to bring in an even tougher cube when it was already a stretch that Voyager could so easily survive normal cubes
@@KnightRaymund Yeah but Voyager ruined the Borg from the first time we really saw them ... Scorpion Part 1: 2 Cubes get easily destroyed in the teaser - then 15 Cubes got shredded. But Voyager took a hit from a Bioship without big problems ...
IT might only be a still frame... but I swear you can see the hope for all sentient life vanish slowly from Torres's eyes during the skit at the end. I had the same look about ten minutes into Star Trek Picard
This was an odd one for me. On its own kind of interesting, opening possibilities for Voyager and some new levels for the borg. In hindsight with the rest of the series, Icheb was the only thing to come out of it of any value, the borg baby is never mentioned, and I'm hard pressed to deny this might have been the jump the shark moment for the show., as watching the net when it was on, it was around here all positivty for the show seemed to vanish and never really recovered.
"Tom would have won the hand because he's Tom Paris" 🤣 "So, I have a full house, what do you have?" "Four of a kind" "Blagh! What do you have, Tom?" *gingerly lays down his cards* "Five Toms" "...." "...." "FUCK you get us every time!"
"Ah Icheb, you will live a long and happy life and definitely not be dismantled for torture p*rn in a garbage show made decades later." I think Neelix would have been less annoying if he had been competent. Not even an expert in things but if he had simply been the sort of character who could learn or knew enough about things to have a decent go. Such as the episode Rise (?) where, instead of him having made models of the space fountain, he could have worked on another version if it. Just enough that he could figure out how to operate it, but not be an expert. I loved the Torres / Neelix lesson at the end :)
@@scockery Yes, but this is what's referred as *a joke;* in particular how SFDebris' version of Picard has a comically exaggerated hatred of children versus the canon Picard.
@@TheNN Well, if you go by FIRST CONTACT Picard, then it's about right. I don't watch SF Debris stuff enough to have a handle on his "take" of characters other than maybe Janeway. His humor is very hit or miss with me.
In smarter shows I'd think Neelix's bad bluffing was foreshadowing the conmen episode later in the season where he has to admit he had lost that edge. Since this is Voyager that theory is shot.
Honestly they were 70 years at maximum warp from home. You'd think they would have dropped off Kes and Neelix after season 2 before getting too far from there homeworlds and other species of there kind. Had a few episodes with no one new. Then picked up a new alien or two from a diffrent region of space. But they only did that with Kes.
Watched voyager through couple of times. At a certain point the flow is peripheral while I'm gaming or doin chores or such. So I've forgotten the shipyard within the cube. Searching the shipporn directly. *dodge mime*.
@@schwarzerritter5724 Steve Shieves did a video about "who ruined the Borg" and did point out that, though voyager did alot of damage to the Borg (both in and out of universe), First Contact did and even some TNG episodes did also show some problems with the Borg.
The Borg did change, but I can't agree they were ruined. The Borg didn't actually feature all that much in TNG, and they weren't exactly consistent about them throughout. There was no assimilation in the first episode, and then, Best of Both Worlds, they do a special assimilation of Picard, where he seems to maintain his individuality. Then, in Part 2, they defeat the board just by hacking them. So, by the time they show up again, the only way to make them interesting is to have a drone that gets disconnected. This drone has no memory of who they were previously, and develops individuality for the first time. And, when reassimilated, that individuality apparently sticks around, which is odd if the Borg regularly assimilate. They should always be able to purge individuality. But, no, we get their last appearance, where the idea of individuality spreads, to where individuals take over, but then are left adrift until Lore comes in and can give them purpose. So they're not very strong at this point. They need something to make them stronger. They need to embrace assimilation of people as a regular thing. They need some sort of purpose that can't be so easily thwarted by introducing the concept of individuality. They need an individual plan, rather than agreeing collectively on everything. I like what they did with the Queen. She isn't present at first. They only build her when they go back in time, having only however many drones will fit in a sphere. They need to assimilate a lot of people, but they don't want their desires taking over. So they create a Queen, who can stand as the boss. This is both a strength in being able to keep them on task, but a weakness as a single weakpoint that can disable them all. It's a calculated risk. Voyager continues this idea. They stumble into a situation the Borg can't handle, so the Borg create a liaison. Then, when they lose that liaison, they create a queen to try and get her back. Voyager learns more about them, which inherently makes them less threatening. But at no point do they go back to being as unthreatening as they were in, Descent. They aren't ruined.
Woke up today to hearing voyager in the living room Hearing the hedgehog try to be a journalist of all things Left before I could find the episode mostly because I was covering my ears from his idiocy of accusing tom of working with the Cason over the ship wide intercoms before he told anyone on the ship with authority about it
Well, they either had malware appear on the ship, or some smartass decided to try installing Windows Vista on it - I mean, what's the worst that could happen?
I've only ever seen him hold his character in high esteem, and he seems to be a very nice guy too, so he probably wouldn't bother paying much attention to a critic who pulls apart science fiction for a living.
You dont play poker to make money, they play other sports and games without needing to get paid. Hell, they go to war and die horrific deaths for no pay!
You know what really irks me? I think the actor who was 'annoying insolent strawman drone', played the exact same fucking kind of character over on Stargate Atlantis. And that episode is just objectively horrible. What an absolutely awful role to be typecast as. Seriously.
That Ectum-Ray bit at the end is one of the reasons why we love you suffering through voyager. By far not the only one. But definitely one of them.
The skit was absolutely freaking brilliant. I haven't laughed that hard in a looooong time.
They had to remove the doctor from the project, because he wanted to call it a "photonic cannon". How lame is that?
I was crying with laughter at this point. That was amazing
Why do I feel like I already heard this skit somewhere?
That bit at the end is hilarious.
It starts at 12:47
"If he says he can blow up a city with a mime, I believe him!" might just be the funniest thing I've ever heard anyone say.
"On Voyager, the quickest way to get a job is to protest how much you'd suck at it."
That or be Tom Paris, the man who siphoned off everyone else's meager competence.
When competence is lacking on Voyager, just remember: We’ll always have Tom Paris.
Tom Paris, the man who makes Leonard look like a narrow specialist.
Tom Paris is a competence vampire.
@@myriadmediamusings i understand that reference.
It applies to him too. They found the one thing he didn't want to do, be a nurse, and stuck him with it. Because he took a semester of biochem.
Icheb was such a great character. He had such possibilities, and not just for himself. He had fantastic scenes with Seven. But he was the only aspect of this episode that really mattered in the long run (the virus getting a second episode I guess, but again that episode had more to do with Icheb in my opinion).
Edit: Picard did our boy Icheb dirty
Oops shouldn’t have looked it up
Oh, I wonder what ever happened to Icheb… oh, oh that’s not good.
@@Arikayx13 his actor shouldn't been an ass
Picard will never be cannon to me. Ever.
I don't know why they made that series for gods sake
And no I won't be watching (I've seen to much already)
“And at least we all know that it works out well for Icheb in the end.”
Yeah…
i mean, anything is possible, sense we have absolutely no continuation of star trek after voyager returns to the alpha quadrant. nothing canon anyhow. Absolutely nothing.
@@owlsayssouth all I’m going to say is that scene made me go from “okay, this show isn’t great, but at least it’s better than Discovery.” To “That’s it, I’m done!” In the time it took to view.
Not watched anything since.
STP's idiocy is not canon, anyone with a working brain refuses that trash.
Having never watch Star Trek Picard, Discovery, or any of the new movies, and legit knowing next to nothing about it, I feel quite happy in that I have no idea what you guys are referencing.
Nor do I wanna know. My decision to blank Nu-Trek and Nu-Star Wars has only made me happier. I knew when Disney bought SW that the stuff they were going to do with it was nothing I wanted to see, and that goes double when I heard of Trek's reboots and new shows.
I remember when someone I know teasingly spoiled Star Wars for me and their reaction when I gave them a disinterested shrug as if they'd just informed me of the latest sportball happening.
I don't fume over Picard and Discovery as they're meaningless to me. They're elseworld stories and the last Trek that mattered was Enterprise.
@@planescaped stay happy in your ignorance my dude. You’re much better for it.
The thing about the Borg baby was that it sort of spoke to a concept of the Borg that isn’t really explored, that the Borg are about assimilating a species biological distinctiveness as well as the technological one.
Since drones probably don’t have sex any Borg baby is probably made from sex cells the collective has access to, do the Borg breed drones of specific species for specific purposes? Do they maybe create hybrids of multiple different species to create a kind of biological ‘perfection’ to match the technological one? The implications are fascinating and horrifying, I’m a little sad that the Borg became just about technology rather than the terrifying fusion they started out as
We had Borg babies in "Q Who", but they were never seen again. But i don't think that this baby was an hommage to that episode, since it was meant to be assimilated from some species.
I really love that they completely forgot about the baby - even when the other kids except Icheb left the ship, the baby was nowhere to be seen ...
@@lordmontymord8701 Janeway had it for dinner. With a nice chianti and some fava beans....
I always liked the idea that cloning and or breeding borgs in a sense was in practice as the main way to increase their drones for most of their existence, with long slow assimilations like we saw with Picard being reserved for key individuals, such as first exposures or people they really want the knowledge of. Then as nano probe technology improved, they started assimilating individuals on a more massive scale and reserved making borg for filling holes in their force. That could be why the greater number of babies around tng, also why Picard's assimilation seemed to take longer than usual, and why Hugh was just called a young borg with what his base species was being not important, and him having never experienced individuality before.
You know Voxyager over-used the Borg when an episode teaser can consist of "Heres our Voy protagonists playing Poker, and SUDDENLY BORG CUBE!"
At least this time there was a good explanation why the Cube lost against Voyager ...
Didn't need to bring in a "Super-Cube" like the Tactical Cube, because a massive ship that was able to destroy dozens of Starfleet ships was no match for Voyager alone ...
@@lordmontymord8701 seriously it was so dumb to bring in an even tougher cube when it was already a stretch that Voyager could so easily survive normal cubes
@@KnightRaymund Yeah but Voyager ruined the Borg from the first time we really saw them ... Scorpion Part 1: 2 Cubes get easily destroyed in the teaser - then 15 Cubes got shredded.
But Voyager took a hit from a Bioship without big problems ...
I want to watch a show starring Chuck's take on Janeway and Neelix. Just unironic Psycho!Janeway for seven seasons. The ectum-ray mime skit was gold.
Psycho! Janeway! Coffee! Crazy!
C’mon this is Starfleet.
We call “Lie your ass off” the Corbomite Maneuver around here
All these years... and Chuck-Janeway still cracks me up.
The Borg are the White Walkers of the Star Trek universe and Seven of Nine is one of the best characters in the franchise's history.
IT might only be a still frame... but I swear you can see the hope for all sentient life vanish slowly from Torres's eyes during the skit at the end.
I had the same look about ten minutes into Star Trek Picard
Oh so did we all.....
You have completely mastered Neelix's pattern of speech. Eerie!
This was an odd one for me. On its own kind of interesting, opening possibilities for Voyager and some new levels for the borg. In hindsight with the rest of the series, Icheb was the only thing to come out of it of any value, the borg baby is never mentioned, and I'm hard pressed to deny this might have been the jump the shark moment for the show., as watching the net when it was on, it was around here all positivty for the show seemed to vanish and never really recovered.
"The garbage man who managed to fail his way up to fry cook" savage.
"Tom would have won the hand because he's Tom Paris" 🤣
"So, I have a full house, what do you have?"
"Four of a kind"
"Blagh! What do you have, Tom?"
*gingerly lays down his cards* "Five Toms"
"...."
"...."
"FUCK you get us every time!"
God I loved that bit at the end
Nothing but good things for Icheb!
"Ah Icheb, you will live a long and happy life and definitely not be dismantled for torture p*rn in a garbage show made decades later."
I think Neelix would have been less annoying if he had been competent. Not even an expert in things but if he had simply been the sort of character who could learn or knew enough about things to have a decent go. Such as the episode Rise (?) where, instead of him having made models of the space fountain, he could have worked on another version if it. Just enough that he could figure out how to operate it, but not be an expert.
I loved the Torres / Neelix lesson at the end :)
An episode all about Borg children? Picard would've order 'Fire all phasers' in less than a heartbeat and the episode would've ended in 5 minutes.
The events of "I, Borg" seem to contrary to your hypothesis.
@@scockery Yes, but this is what's referred as *a joke;* in particular how SFDebris' version of Picard has a comically exaggerated hatred of children versus the canon Picard.
@@TheNN Well, if you go by FIRST CONTACT Picard, then it's about right.
I don't watch SF Debris stuff enough to have a handle on his "take" of characters other than maybe Janeway. His humor is very hit or miss with me.
In smarter shows I'd think Neelix's bad bluffing was foreshadowing the conmen episode later in the season where he has to admit he had lost that edge. Since this is Voyager that theory is shot.
The bully borg should have pulled out Seven's eyeball, because that's what good Star Trek is.
Honestly they were 70 years at maximum warp from home. You'd think they would have dropped off Kes and Neelix after season 2 before getting too far from there homeworlds and other species of there kind. Had a few episodes with no one new. Then picked up a new alien or two from a diffrent region of space. But they only did that with Kes.
If we Technobabble the keyboard, the algorithm will give Chuck another nickel!
Watched voyager through couple of times. At a certain point the flow is peripheral while I'm gaming or doin chores or such. So I've forgotten the shipyard within the cube. Searching the shipporn directly. *dodge mime*.
The review is quality as always, but the bit at the end is hysterical. :D
Do more skits. We need your humor in our lives.
I guess they forgot about the "pathogen" in later encounters with the borg.
"You should eat Neelix!"
And get food poisoning??
He'd probably taste like literal shit.
Simmered for a few hours in a light herbal broth...you'll hardly notice the mildew.
"We know that things are going to work out very well for Icheb in the end."
...Oof.
I love this bit at the end. Lol
Loved the end skit
I found the ending skit hysterical
Maybe I'm just easily amused... Which I am.... But it was still hysterical
Me: Mr. Suder.
Lon:: Yes, ensign?
Me: I wish to kill a man.
Lon: Say no more.
😂 "that's why I'm here"
woohaa a new SFDebris Red Star trek video! what a treat
Voyager couldn't have ruined the borg more completely if they'd tried.
First Contact started it.
Sure, it was the least terrible of the Next Generation films, but most of the new lore made the Borg a lot less cool.
@@schwarzerritter5724 Steve Shieves did a video about "who ruined the Borg" and did point out that, though voyager did alot of damage to the Borg (both in and out of universe), First Contact did and even some TNG episodes did also show some problems with the Borg.
@@schwarzerritter5724 As soon as the Queen was introduced, the Borg went downhill from there.
@@horaciosi Yeah, I can't argue with that.
The Borg did change, but I can't agree they were ruined. The Borg didn't actually feature all that much in TNG, and they weren't exactly consistent about them throughout. There was no assimilation in the first episode, and then, Best of Both Worlds, they do a special assimilation of Picard, where he seems to maintain his individuality. Then, in Part 2, they defeat the board just by hacking them.
So, by the time they show up again, the only way to make them interesting is to have a drone that gets disconnected. This drone has no memory of who they were previously, and develops individuality for the first time. And, when reassimilated, that individuality apparently sticks around, which is odd if the Borg regularly assimilate. They should always be able to purge individuality.
But, no, we get their last appearance, where the idea of individuality spreads, to where individuals take over, but then are left adrift until Lore comes in and can give them purpose.
So they're not very strong at this point. They need something to make them stronger. They need to embrace assimilation of people as a regular thing. They need some sort of purpose that can't be so easily thwarted by introducing the concept of individuality. They need an individual plan, rather than agreeing collectively on everything.
I like what they did with the Queen. She isn't present at first. They only build her when they go back in time, having only however many drones will fit in a sphere. They need to assimilate a lot of people, but they don't want their desires taking over. So they create a Queen, who can stand as the boss. This is both a strength in being able to keep them on task, but a weakness as a single weakpoint that can disable them all. It's a calculated risk.
Voyager continues this idea. They stumble into a situation the Borg can't handle, so the Borg create a liaison. Then, when they lose that liaison, they create a queen to try and get her back. Voyager learns more about them, which inherently makes them less threatening.
But at no point do they go back to being as unthreatening as they were in, Descent. They aren't ruined.
That ending...,woooooow😮
What did you think of "Little Hitler"?
Poor Icheb... yes i saw his fate in ST Picard...
What is ST Picard??? That does not exist! *still in denial*
2:41 aaaactually 3³ is ... a different number *nerd sounds*
Woke up today to hearing voyager in the living room
Hearing the hedgehog try to be a journalist of all things
Left before I could find the episode mostly because I was covering my ears from his idiocy of accusing tom of working with the Cason over the ship wide intercoms before he told anyone on the ship with authority about it
"Investigations".
Muahahahaha...now that you know the title, you have to go watch it. 😅
@@MKDumas1981 nah i dont have to watch it i just have to go "ah thats the name"
thanks for informing me
Huh, neat. I was just watching this episode yesterday 😊
Well, they either had malware appear on the ship, or some smartass decided to try installing Windows Vista on it - I mean, what's the worst that could happen?
lmao That Ectum-Ray bit
Has Ethan Phillips ever talked about SFDebris' opinion of Neelix? It would be an interesting interview
I've only ever seen him hold his character in high esteem, and he seems to be a very nice guy too, so he probably wouldn't bother paying much attention to a critic who pulls apart science fiction for a living.
I never understood why they didn't use materials and resources from a generally working borg cube.
That would require continuity.
yeah, what about a transwarp coil?
And now, a non-sequitur in the spirit of the ending skit.
ruclips.net/video/HyU_1-Py0dA/видео.html
Non-Sequitur...I see what you did there.
Need a sitcom of Debris and Neelix share an apartment. Shenanigans ensues.
Add Psycho Janeway and you got a deal.
That's not a sticom. That's an episode of Law and Order. guess who's body is found in the dumpster.
@@chrisw207 Could be Debris - just one of Neelix' "food"-creations would be enough ...
As The Grand Archpriest of The Church of the Algorithm, I bless this video with a comment.
Hey what happened to the baby?
Always wondered why they even play poker in the 24th century if money is obsolete
You dont play poker to make money, they play other sports and games without needing to get paid. Hell, they go to war and die horrific deaths for no pay!
I mean.... For fun??
Bragging rights, like Riker has.
i wish you wrote the jokes for neelix instead of the writers, they would be funny
You know what really irks me? I think the actor who was 'annoying insolent strawman drone', played the exact same fucking kind of character over on Stargate Atlantis. And that episode is just objectively horrible. What an absolutely awful role to be typecast as. Seriously.
Were you on drugs?
Unfortunately no
WTF was that last few minutes of pretend conversations? A for effort but it was not funny at all and kind of annoying to be honest.
Your complaints have been noted. Stand by for incoming destruction.... 3... 2..... 1-
That ending skit was terrible. Neelix was actually funny. 0/10.
“And at least we all know that it works out well for Icheb in the end.”..
...oof