How to Unload the Battleship's Guns
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- In this episode we're looking at the process of removing powder and shells from the 16in and 5in guns in the event of a ceasefire or misfire on Battleship New Jersey.
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In battleship gunnery it is possible to extract shells from the guns after they have been loaded. On the Iowa we had a training accident in the center gun of turret two and on the same day a misfire in the left gun of turret one that prevented the shell from being fired. For these situations there is a special tool called a backing tool. It is a 110 pound brass weight that is literally dropped down the barrel and it impacts the shell and backs it out far enough where it can be pulled out of the gun onto the shell tray. What you would do is fit a special collar on the outside of the barrel. It came in two pieces and you bolted it together. It had a pulley on it and about a hundred feet of rope. You would tie one end to the backing tool and the other end went to a detail of sailor on the roof of the turret who would hold the rope tight. The gun would be elevated to maximum elevation and the detail on the roof of the turret would let go of the rope. You could hear the tool slide down the barrel and impact the shell. The would lower the barrel and the detail on the roof would pull the backing tool back to the end of the barrel. They would elevate the barrel and release the tool. You would rinse and repeat until the shell was backed out far enough where you could get a cable around the rotating ring and pull it out into the shell tray and you would send it back down the shell hoist to the projectile decks. For the left gun of turret one we backed her out pretty quickly. I don't think it took more than an hour. However the shell in center gun turret two had been pushed up into the barrel several feet because of the explosion as well as the shell probably expanded some from the heat. We tried the backing tool on it and banged it quite a bit. When it didn't work we tied two backing tools together, banged it a bunch more. When that didn't work we tried three, four and five maybe even six backing tools tied together and we banged on that shell for DAYS and could not get it to budge. I was in the gun layer station elevating the barrel half the time and on the roof of turret two the other half. If I am not mistaken I believe EOD came in and drilled out the center of the shell and removed material from the shell loosening the pressure so we could back it out eventually.
that's wild, neat story!
Tremendous story and hugely informative!
Thank you for sharing and thank you for your service.
I’ve often wondered just how the projectile in the center gun of Turret 2 on Iowa was removed afterwards. Thanks for sharing!
Edit: after reading other comments about the fuze of the shell, does anyone know if the rounds being fired that day were live ones or inert/BL&P?
Was the shell's fuse somehow disarmed before this operation?
Edit: Thanks to everyone who answered my question!
Thank you for sharing. I remember a previous video and him talking about the backing tool because they found some on New Jersey. I was kind of confused that this was never mentioned in the video.
Coming into port and firing off a full broadside 16“ salute will brighten the day of all the folks who have their houses nearby. Especially those people whose profession is glazier 😜
Long ago, San Diego had 16 inch coastal defense guns located in Point Loma. When test fired for training, there were reports of broken windows miles away. The guns were about 400 feet above the bay and must have been able to hit Mexico. The location can still be seen just before the national park entrance at the end of Point Loma.
The blinded residents of Halifax, N.S. may have a different opinion about nearby costal explosions.
@@elfthreefiveseven1297 Heck, there is a 16 inch naval gun pointed toward the ocean buried in a bunker at Lewes, Delaware, Fort Miles. On display to the public, then even make it go BOOM w/acetylene.
@@elfthreefiveseven1297 when the Norwegians test fired the Nazi guns at the mouth of the Trondheim fjord a few years after the war, half the windows of the city several miles away shattered.
@@Notcorncowsorchickens the one from the uss Missouri? That thing is a beast!
When a gun has been fired more than a set amount, say 5 rounds in 15 minutes for a five inch, it is considered a "hot barrel" and the breach is not to be opened if there is a misfire or a cease-fire after the round is in the barrel. Misfires stay in the breach until it either cools or cooks off. Cease fires with a hot barrel are cleared through the business end as a matter of safety.
Was in Gitmo in '77 or '79 when a DE with two 5" .38s opened the breach on a hot barrel misfire and deflagrate into the aft turret. Our helo picked up one of the three stretcher cases and flew him to the hospital.
Bottom line - once loaded, fire it or retire it.
Yikes! That sounds like it could have killed a lot of people, even the entire crew as well as sank the ship.
We have a saying in the Army when you have a runaway machine gun- "Break the links or ride the lightning until it's out of ammo". Most guys ride like the wind,,,,,
After a fairly long fire mission in Vietnam, we had just rammed a load into the right barrel of mount 51, when they called cease fire. Guns were "HOT".EVEN THE GUN TRAY WAS VERY WARM.
REQUESTED TO CLEAR ON A SAFE BEARING (fire gun)
And was denied. We were all waiting for permission. Gunners mate requested permissio. To pull the powder canister.recieved permission , dropped breech with the rammer
Down thru that one over the side! Inserted short round and a long 30 seconds later cleared the gun safely. I had the bottom 3 inches of that Brass short round untill 2018 when i donated it t o a Amvets post
Alas. Either those sailors were poorly supervised & left to their own devices to resolve a problem new to them, or they unthinkingly disregarded safety proceedures. Either way the careless action of a single second has consequences that last a lifetime. Alas.
@Barry D. Thomas Sr.
Do you know which post? I’d love to go see it.
As an artillery Section Chief we occasionally had a sticker. That's when it fires but for whatever reason the shell fails to leave the tube. We also might ram a 155mm round in and the mission gets canceled. We can't leave the round in when we move the howitzer. We also might need to fire a round that is different than the one stuck in the tube. There are two ways we would remove the stuck round. The first and most common way was to use what we call a bell rammer. We would screw together all the pipes we use to clean the tube and then screw on a cone attachment. You lower the tube until its level and then take this 8 foot long pole to the front of the tube. The Section Chief then designates two Marines who's made him mad to open the breach and stand ready with the loading tray to "catch" the fully fused round as it exits the breach. The rest of the crew mans the ram rod at the front and very gently rams the round out. Definitely one of the worst jobs to ram out a fully fused round. The second way to clear a round out would be to call in the ammo techs and they would force water into the front of the tube and use water pressure to push the round out. This way is much more dangerous for obvious reasons. I've only seen it done once.
Back when there was a nuclear shell for the 155mm howitzer there was a special extractor tool to retrieve that round. I believe it pulled the shell out the front of the muzzle but my training on it was thirty years ago so I might be wrong. If there was a 16 inch nuclear battleship shell I suspect there was a special tool in that case as well.
As a Former artillery chief I’ve used section staffs and a bell rammer (M198A1) water charges from EOD with a .50 cal blank and electric primer and a lot of water M198&M777
I say screw that on both choices
@@davidrobinson3716 I don't doubt you need to wear dark glasses when using that tool to remove a nuclear shell.
@@taraswertelecki3786 Pretty much lmao
I love that you can spend 5x the video length reading the comments and hear from sailors of different eras how things were handled. What an amazing resource and always an intelligent and respectful crew of commenters👍🇺🇸
I'm a former artillery officer. The brass ring you describe is actually called the driving band. Its normally made of copper. It's relatively soft so when it is rammed into the chamber of the ordnance the copper bites into the rifling, or rather is deformed into the rifling of the barrel liner. When the gun in fired tha bite imparts the spin into the shell. It also creates a seal between the shell and the bore, improving the chamber pressure, keeping it consistent and also increasing muzzle velocity.
In 1972 in Vietnam we had a shell explode at the end of the barrel on a 5in 54. These guns were auto-load rapid-fire so another round was rammed into the breach of the damaged barrel. The shipyard in Subic bay removed the barrel with the live round which was later dumped at sea. This was on the USS Davis DD-937.
I only know of 1 16" shell that was unloaded by method other than firing. That would be the one from the center gun of turret 2 that had the explosion. In addition to being rammed into the barrel, the explosions caused it to move even further into the barrel. The way they got it out was closed the breech and ran a high pressure water pump to fill the space behind it with water and pushed it the rest of the way out of the barrel. This was done at Dahlgren in Virginia in late 1989 or early 1990.
I though they beat that shell out with a custom made heavy cap all the way back from the front. There was a picture of a 16 inch shell beat all to hell. If that was not it, then it must have been the one from turret 1 misfire.
this contradicts "Old Guy Gaming Networks" comment stated above though....
GMG1 Turret II USS NEW JERSEY In op 769 16" manual section 2-29 is the manual unloading procedure
Cool
Very cool. Basically a big gravity hammer dropped repeatedly down the barrel in order to knock the projectile back into the chamber.
@@KiithnarasAshaa seems a bit worrying
the device used has a space to protect fuse from damage also wind screen on armor piercing so fairly safe.
shell has to spin to set the fuse no spin no bang
I've had a few mis-fires with M16's and M60's, pretty much a "hurry up and wait" to make sure it's just not a hang fire. You did a GREAT job explaining how the big guns are dealt with. Thanks
I started my military career as a Loader on an M60A1 tank. The very first round I EVER loaded misfired! I had to open the breach, pull it out, rotate it 180 degrees and load it back in. At that point it fired. I can tell you I was scared out of my mind the whole time I had the breach open that it would turn out to be a hang fire and detonate with the breach open.
Ryan asked about having had a miss-fire. Yes, I once fired my .357 revolver with just a primer in the cartridge. Made for a really SHORT day at the range, too. I used a cleaning rod and a soft mallet to pound the bullet back into the cartridge to then open the cylinder & remove the bad round. I upped my quality control process for handloading, too!
Oof, squibs are always "fun".
Squibs are never fun.
Had to happen with me with WWB in my old XD9. Scariest thing was reseating the round to unlock the slide. Thank god I noticed the recoil felt odd and checked to see the slide jammed slightly open.
Just fire another round to pop it out- but be sure to use 125JHP with 22 grains of 296 powder to give it the extra "oomph" needed. Once the barrel separates into many fine petals, the bullet falls right out. Damned amateurs...
I shine a bright light into the cases to makes sure neither a double charged nor a squib round finds its way into my gun.
I was in the army 1980-1983, and we used the M16A1 rifle. Misfires in these weapons were extremely rare, although not unheard of. I only know of one that happened to a friend of mine while on the range. And in my time in the Army I fired and was witness to the firing of literally hundreds of thousands of rounds! Rare.
I recently found your channel and am enjoying watching the videos. Thank you for the work you and your team put in to make them.
Welcome aboard!
I don't think you've ever failed to answer a question as thoroughly as I would like, you are an amazing curator and RUclipsr, thank you!
I am hopelessly addicted to these videos
Was on the first sea trial of USS Missouri as a Long Beach Naval Shipyard yardbird. One of the #2 Turret barrels misfired. The gun captain tried a new primer and it didn't fire a second time. The barrel was shaken up and down vigorously and a third attempt succeeded at firing the barrel. As a young waterfront engineer, I was lucky enough to attend the sea trials gun fire from the 05 exposed bridge with the Captain and other important people and witnessed the gun firing from a select vantage point.
*Ryan, you are one of the coolest people on RUclips, thanks for all your knowledge.*
Ryan, didn't you show a "Backing Tool/Rammer" down on one of the shell-handling decks? I distinctly remember a video where you showed a large, metal tool that you speculated could be dropped down the muzzle of a 16" gun to dislodge a rammed-home shell, and a Gunner's Mate replied that was exactly what it was.
The video you're referring to definitely exists.
Wait where I want to watch that video
look at this on fig 2-23 . You will find the advices and drawing for using the "backing tool " on eugeneleeslover.com/ENGINEERING/OP769/OP-769_Part1.pdf
"Backing Tool " on eugeneleeslover.com/ENGINEERING/OP769/OP-769_Part1.pdf fig. 2-23
Through the open end at the front. I heard they can be unloaded fairly quickly and the ordinance disposed of about 20 miles away.
But think of the taxpayers!
Tax payers have deep pockets!
@@jamestheotherone742 extracted rounds are not to be fired, so extracting rather than firing just adds another round to the demil inventory.
Don't know for sure about the Navy, but in Army terms, that base ring is called a rotating band.
The problem with unloading rounds that are in the breach, (I have experience with 155mm M777A2 howitzers) is that the tubes warm up and gets extremely hot, this causes the metal to expand. If you shoot multiple rounds, then go on a cease fire. And then you need to remove that round that was sitting in a hot breach, 1 of 2 things are possible which is why you want to dump the powder out as soon as possible because it can ignite. A friend of mine was shortly set on fire in this instance where he was supervising the unloading of a 155mm shell and powder, the powder dropped out of the breach and turned him shortly into a human torch(no lasting injuries). The other and more costly instance is the round getting physically stuck in the breach, where the tube would need to be removed because that warm metal had cooled to the point that the round is stuck in place.
Was late for the live stream, but the hang fire, part made me imagine Iowa's incident, and USS Mississippi.
The Iowa wasn't a hang fire. Hang fires happen after the gun is loaded, this happened while loading.
My pet theory was that the rammer jammed and slammed the powder into the projectile.
One of the issues with mothballing is that they fill the hydraulic system with cosmoline or some other stuff. This is never completely remove from the system and the rammers used to stick. Sometimes you had to put the rammer to full throttle just to make it move. We setup an oiler scrubber on center gun that was used to filter an F-14s system. We ran it for 2 days and still had issues.
One reason why I think that is the gun crew on the Iowa was doing Sud 40 second loads and if you're trying to get that fast, you are not being safe and there's no room for errors.
Speed on loading depends highly on the rammer man and he will make you or break you. I had a couple of good ones and we could get around 35 seconds per load. Believe me, it ain't easy to get 30 second loads.
@@pville_piper5125 yes. I'm all in on the tech details. But the intricacies of operating these weapons is quite dangerous every step of the way.
I saw Iowa fire in 87. Go Navy
I can remember an incident firing the 16” guns in the early 90’s. Turret three had a “misfire (??? I am an engineer not gunner so it may be wrong name) one or more of the powder bags failed to fire correctly during a gun shoot. The “powder” was blown out all over the fantail with the clearing air.
We had to stay at GQ for a while extra, and were not allowed on the fantail for a while while they washed off the “powder”.
I imagine the preferred method of unloading the guns would be to fire them lol
Definitely the most enjoyable method
That's called "unloading through the front end" yes.
The video reminded me of a bit from C S Forester's "The Good Shepherd," set just after an engagement between a Mahan class destroyer and a U-boat:
-----
“Thank you, sir. And number four gun still has a round in the breech. Request permission to unload through the muzzle.”
That was one way of asking permission to fire the gun off. A round left in the heated gun was too dangerous to unload in the ordinary way, and as a result of the chemical changes caused by the heat it would be unreliable in action.
-----
It is very much the preferred method, yes, but there is the rare occasion you need to unload and start fresh.
Oh that's rich! Har har! Har har !
I know this ship no longer has her bofors mounts, but I would love to see a video on the Mark 51 Director that was used with the 40mm guns in WWII.
Did you know Mk 51s could direct the 5"/38s? You couldn't use them with a Mk 37 because the 51 lacked a rate deviation gyro. However, it could certainly be connected to, and direct, a 5" mount(s) by itself. That's cool.
@@ut000bs yeah they’re pretty neat. Definitely ahead of its time for sure
You did a previous video about the 16” brass shell remover. It was a solid piece that was placed in the end of the barrel and dropped onto the shell to knock it down towards the breech.
Glad you pointed that out. I watched that video not that long ago. The shells have to spin so many times or achieve a certain velocity to arm (off the top of my head).
I believe 40mm grenades need to arm on the trip out and are rotation based, although I don't know that I would hit them with a hammer. I was never qualified on grenades.
@@JamesKintner The whole concept of beating on the fuze of a 16” shell to get it out of the barrel scares the bejezzus out of me.
Practicing at the range, firing my 357 revolver, I noticed that one round only made a pop sound rather than full fire. Fortunately I stopped right there. I had heard that others have gone ahead and fired the next round and burst the barrel and suffered injury. The rangemaster and I worked on pounding out the stuck round and I reloaded and went back to practice.
True story. Got out of juvenile detention. Mom insisted I get a job. Didn't really want one but, push came to shove and I thought the military would be great. ( Not really a job I thought ) I tried the army recruiter ( said no you have a record ) then tried the Air Force ( same rejection ) Marines were next and most honest.
That recruiter also said no but, suggested I try the Navy " because they will take anyone " this was in 79 and thank you CPO Moody for your help in setting me on a good path.
This is the kind of YT channel you don’t binge watch because you don’t want to run out of videos.
I was active duty EOD in the Army but still remember (somewhat) the stuck round procedure for the 16 inch gun. There are stuck round procedures for all weapon systems, but the 16 inch is one that really stands out. Trying to manually remove a rammed projectile is the primary means done by the gun crew. Trying to fire or re-fire the projectile out would be a good next step if it could not manually be removed. Now the other EOD stuck round procedure (and the reason it stands out) requires the removal of the barrel from the ship, it is placed in an elevated position, and the projectile is explosively forced out the breach end. Obviously this has to be done in port, and nobody wants to arrive with a loaded gun tube.
Easier said then done. Removing the barrel entails shoring up the two lower decks under the gun and building a mini railway to support the barrel as it is extracted. Its an intensive process. I think Ryan has a video or a photo showing it.
I just now saw this video and wanted to share that there were very clearly defined procedures for handling misfires that are written into Navy gunnery drill manuals from the 1920's that I have read. The combination primers were almost exclusively fired electrically, but were capable of being percussion fired by attaching a lanyard to the lock mechanism and pulling it. The first attempt to clear a misfire would be to simply close the firing key again locally. If that failed, they would switch to battery power on the firing circuit and try again. If that failed, they would check for a bad wiring connection on the lock, which was the most frequent cause for misfire. If all of that failed, they would attach a lanyard to the firing lock and try percussion firing it. If pulling the lanyard failed to fire the gun, then they would open the lock enough to partially extract the primer so that it could be grabbed. Once removed, they could check and see if the primer fired. If it hadn't, they would insert a new primer and most likely the gun would fire when the firing circuit closed. If the old primer had fired, they would try another, knowing that it likely would not fire the charge. If the second one failed, they removed it and shot water though the primer vent to at least soak the ignition patch of the rear bag. At that point, the turret was cleared of crew except for a gunnery officer and the men required to operate the breech plug. However, they waited a minimum of 30 minutes before opening it. This was considered the maximum amount of time that a smoldering fire would travel up the length of a silk bag and ignite the ignition patch of the bag ahead of it. Once the plug was open, more water would be hosed into the powder chamber to soak the bags before pulling them out.
We had a misfire on a 105mm howitzer. We had to use a bell rammer to extract the shell. One of the scariest things I did in the Army.
I've had a few jams with a pistol, but Id imagine that doesnt even begin to compare to a stuck 16 inch shell in a gun that essentially fires entire cars at the enemy.
Remember being on a Brook class FFG and having a misfiring of a Tartar missile during an exercise. After waiting an amount of time some Chief ran out to the missile and did something to it. After a while we managed to fire the missile.
1997, Gagetown CFB NB Canada: NH Army Guard... M198 (towed) 155mm. We had a hang fire issue... waited away from the thing for an hour. Protocol called for calling EOD and basically our battery would be out of action for the day. An old Vietnam vet SFC opened the breech, put a ramrod in the tube, and then gently drove a 5-ton's front bumper into the ramrod.
Thing popped like a cork. Everyone happy. Talk was he would get a medal until brigade said a court martial more likely. I learned a lot from that old SFC.
I didn’t know that history of the naval salute, thank you!
I asked this very question ages ago, and got an answer, nice to see a video on how it actually happened
I recently found your channel by luck. I would never say that I will see so many videos about a destroyer and navy technologies and found it so interesting as a civilian with engineering background.
During a combined arms breach at a training, my brigade shot four MCLC's (mine clearing line charge) to clear a gap for the rest of the tanks and Bradley's to pass through.
The first 3 went off great, but the 4th misfired. I was the security element right next to the breach they were trying to clear, so everyone just stayed buttoned up and took a nap.
The engineers gave it the required 30 minutes, and then refused it. No need to worry about oversleeping, because that thing shook the whole 35 ton Bradley when it finally went off.
Well, it aint exactly the size of a 16-inch naval shell, but I did have a squib load that I failed to notice in my Century Golani rifle. I continued firing another one or two rounds until the whole thing blew up. Amazingly, after knocking the stuck bullets down the bore and out the chamber, the barrel exhibited no bulging. I later sent the whole gun to a Galil specialist gunsmith to be refurbished into what a real Galil looks like and he confirmed that the barrel was still good. The explosion ruined the bolt face, gas tube and part of the receiver cover but I was wearing eye and ear protection and the Galil has a machined steel receiver and thus no injury to myself other than my pride...
Excellent! I asked this question recently! I’m not surprised many others did too.
Back in 1995, when I was a 11C (Mortarman), I had a live 4.2-inch HE Mortar shell Mis-fire. As the AG (Assistant Gunner), the steps I had to perform was to clear the armored vehicle for five minutes, then get the Gunner two canteens of water to pour down the barrel, and then have the Gunner and Ammo-bearer raise the bottom of the barrel while I stood at the front of the barrel, ready to catch the mis-fired round and escort it to the Dud pit for disposal.
Back in 1969, when I was a 11C, we had an old 81mm that was worn out! About one out of every 5 or 6 rounds would hang. I finally figured out that the firing pin was worn as much as the rest of the gun. I found a new one some where and managed to replace it. No more problems after that , but we dumped a lot of rounds out of a hot tube. I was the one who got to elevate the tube to dump them out.
Awesome video as always!
Had a misfire in a .380 ACP (it was new) and found the firing pin was striking the rim of a primer rather than the center where that cartridge requires it.
We followed the correct procedure of leaving it pointed in a safe direction for a while, and eventually pulled back the hammer (single action, so not safe to try again until then) and tried again. It fired that time, and we had another later in the same session with a different brand of ammo just in case there was something funny about how it was chambering the first brand. We kept that one for reference and sent it back for warranty work.
I've also had some bad .22LR here and there, but it's been a long time since I had one that didn't go off properly with that caliber. Thankfully no squibs yet.
Only once in a 13 year career as a 5"54 maintainer (Mk 42 and Mk 45) was I involved with (or heard of) a round being removed from the chamber other than firing.
It involved rods going down the muzzle and an extremely powerful jack to push it back out the breach.
It was done alongside.......and was a major, major pain in the arse!
The projectile was totally screwed afterwards but thankfully was a practice ( non explosive) round.
Perfect, I asked a question about defusing the shells after they’d reached the gun house in the 5 inch gun video, so this will hopefully solve that mystery.
I think the fuzes are kind of like super robust egg timers, twist one way to set a time and twist the other to reset/cancel it... I would think it's a super easy straight forward operation right, even if it's rare to have to do you always want anything having to do with explosives simple and foolproof... especially when safing them.... y'know, making them less explode-y haha
@@ScumfuckMcDoucheface , twist it back the other way will make it go TING!!!
@@johnbattista9519 meh, just smack it with a hammer then =) that'll fix it, right good and propper.
@@johnbattista9519 You mean BANG!
For land based artillery, there is an EOD procedure for "unloading" a semi-fixed or separate loading projectile, or a stuck projectile, utilizing a wooden block, a pusher charge, and a lot of pillows or "cushions", but it's definitely easier to just fire another propellant charge.
Ive studied the entire Iowa incident. I was an active Chief t the time, aviation type, but was one of the first in the Navy to qualify as a Surface warfare Specialist (they give it away today for going to class). The Navy totally screwed the pooch on the investigation and tried to railroad a young sailor. An idiot former vacuum cleaner salesman turned reserve Master Chief fancied himself ,an expert and experimented with different powders. I have relatives working the gun line at Dahlgren and they all knew it was an over ram incident but the Navy was set on blaming a chemical igniter on a sailor. It took Congress, the GAO and Sandia to get the Navy to look another direction.
Proud of my Navy and my career, but this is one of many times I am ashamed to say I was a Chief Petty Officer and served.
I’ve fired several 16 inch projectiles at Dam Neck to qualify the newest configuration of powder bags using rayon vice silk. In the gun house we all pulled separate firing triggers, then BOOM!!!!!!!
Description: orange fireball of ungodly intensity, concussion wave that seemingly moves the Earth, my teeth & joints ached for weeks. Large spot in center of my field of vision for a couple days. Fired from Commwealth of Virginia towards Maryland’s portion of the Potomac, gun set to 5 degrees depressed angle. Due to atmospheric thermal inversion, blew out a number of windows in Colonial Beach. Circa 1980.
I think you mean Dahlgren. I was just there two weeks ago, got to tour the gunline. They have proofed barrels for the North Carolina and Alabama (16" 45 cal) and the Iowas (16"50 cal). Saw the old gunpowder test rig, the 16:" gun with a very short barrel (16" 23 cal?). Several barres have been dissassembled, they have like 7 pieces to complete one barrel. Its not solid. I think Ryan dod a video of them, at my request. I'd like to see any old movies of the Gun Factory where they sweated the barrels apart and together in a 100 ft deep oven. Too cool. One of my cousins runs a range boat out there for test fires.
@@phillyrube5232 my mistake, yes it’s Dahlgren where the Commonwealth of Virginia fires shots almost daily at the State of Maryland. Five degrees of negative elevation lets the projectiles harmlessly sink into the Potomac, with lots of broken windows in Colonial Beach if the concussion wave of the blast reflects off of an inverted atmospheric layer. Currently there is a 16/50 installed in a bunker on the beach at Fort Miles in Lewes, DE, open to the public.
The ramming tool description on the 16” guns reminded me of the Gremlin on a Bugs Bunny episode hitting bombs with a mallet.
"These Blockbuster bombs won't go off unless you hit 'em *just* right..."
Would you PLEASE have one of your "crew" clean the breach ring. As a former artilleryman it pains me to see a piece of equipment treated so poorly.
Aye, it does need a cleaning
We are always accepting volunteers, we've got 50,000 tons of ship that need help!
@@BattleshipNewJersey Ryan, that's the most polite way of saying "come do it yourself or shut up about it" that I've ever seen.... BWAHahahahahahahahahahah...
@@BattleshipNewJersey well, time to move to the east coast!
Including a dirty rag. For shame, for shame. These magnificent guns deserve more respect.
Ryan/team, can we have a video on the zoology of the ship? Has it ever knowingly carried companion animals? Ship's cat, war dogs, parrots? Is it home to unwanted critters like mice, cockroaches, termites, silverfish, seagulls?
I was watching "The Chieftan", a channel about tanks, (as my father was a tank driver during The War), and he had the same problem, (and solution), to unloading his tank during Desert Storm. When told to cease firing at the enemy, he complied on the radio, but the next day, away from his commander, would simply fire off the round in the gun to get rid of it.
1 time I was at the range firing a Spanish copy of the 1911 in 9mm Largo and I remember hearing, Bang Bang, Bang then pop the round was Primer only no powder in the case. The bullet did make it out of the barrel though
Pretty sure you mean tosay the brass ring is "engraved" by the rifling of the barrel. That's the term we use for small arms (rifles, pistols) but artillery might have another term. As to putting a reduced charge behind the shell and touching it off, the term for that would be "suicide," since you would get an explosion instead of the combustion that is used to drive rounds down range.
Why would a reduced charge do something other than firing the projectile less distance downrange?
I've had some rounds that just didn't feel right when fired. Time for a check to make sure the barrel was clear.
We had hang fire about every 3 weeks off the coast of Vietnam. It was mainly because of Hot Gun. We were pretty fast loading the 5"38's. Yes we would cool the barrel with a fire hose and use a short charge at a safe bearing and pop it out.
On the Otto Malara 76mm, it was common to have the projectile separate from the casing, after ramming. We had a wooden attachment for the end of the cleaning rods, that cupped the end of the projectile and allowed us to hammer it out. We also carried a clearing charge, I believe it was half the size of the normal casing.
Oto Melara :-)
@@lucamesseri4563 Thenk you for correcting my deficiencies. I will strive to make the necessary changes to ensure this fault is never repeated.
Kindest regards.
@@ManBearPig781 , no problem! I do not claim to have any higher skills than yours, I am simply an Italian. Thanks for your interesting contribution to the discussion and for your kindness, best regards.
Wow. I never thought about unloading a sixteen inch gun. All I can visualize is how dangerous a misfire can be. Great video and great comments.
The only real misfire that I've had was while we were out target shooting. We had various weapons with us but everyone was taking turns with my SW 357. We had picked up a few boxes of reloads. Everyone else went before me and they were trying their ability to rapid-fire the pistol. I decided that on my turn I would actually try hitting targes. The first two shots went perfectly but the third only made a tiny pop noise. I instantly stopped and waited a half minute or so before bringing the pistol over to the table emptied the cylinder and checked the barrel. About halfway down was the stuck round. I'm thinking it was only a primer load. The scariest part of the whole deal was that if any of the people that went before me got that round they wouldn't have been able to stop. They would have fired a second-round while the first was stuck. We all got lucky that day.
Hwy Ryan.. that soft metal ring you were talking about is called a rotating band. You got the full rest of it very accurate. (26 years of artillery experience here)
I believe they are also called driving bands.
@@taraswertelecki3786 Also heard tankers call them "bore riding rings."
@@taraswertelecki3786 rotating bands is correct in the US. Some Europeans (certainly the Swedes) call them driving bands.
@@yepiratesworkshop7997 if you’re talking 120mm tank, what you see is an obturator.
I understand that if the ball isn't tapped all the way to the powder in a black powder weapon then when the pressure wave hits the stopped ball with its inertia a great amount of pressure can build up and split the barrel at that point.
Something that I’ve been very curious about lately is where did the US Navy procure the teak that went into the New Jersey’s deck during WWII? It’s my understanding that teak is a wood that is only found in Southeast Asia, which was under Japanese occupation for all of WWII. Did the USN have large quantities of teak wood stored in the US prior to the outbreak of WWII?
Cured wood for rifle stocks used to be stockpiled in great abundance in preparation for war. I assume the same is true for the Navy of decking wood.
We probably had a supply, but doing a little reading on Wikipedia there were teak plantations in Africa that we would have had access too. It's now being cultivated in Central American as well.
Very interesting book about teak production areas before and during WWII is "Elephant Company". The British used teak production elephants to build bridges during the war.
A new gunner's mate firing a full salute as you sail into a foreign but friendly port . . .
"Sorry captain. No-one told me about using smaller charges. I guess we just gave them a full broadside".
I have had mis-fires a-plenty. I had a hang-fire on an old milsurp 8mm mauser round ... it went off 5 seconds after I pulled the trigger! And the worst one ... 44 magnum probably only the primer fired and not the main charge. It lodged the bullet halfway down the barrel. I stopped from firing another round, and probably hurting myself badly, because it felt "funny".
you were very lucky not to fire after the 44 mag lodged in barrel.....I had this happen with a .357 mag and was not so lucky...
@@ypaulbrown I hope it all healed ok, Paul.
@@MrTexasDan it did.....thanks.....
If you had fired another shot, your gun would have been wrecked, and quite probably severe injuries to you. I saw what happened to a Glock pistol that was the victim of a cartridge with a TRIPLE charge of powder. The slide flew off the frame, the magazine was blown out of the grip, and pieces of metal and polymer penetrated the firer's arm, hand and face. He was lucky he did not lose an eye or worse.
Don't forget the problems with Turkish 8mm surplus. The powder breaks down and has a tendency to go way overpressure.
Man this is fascinating.
So, my first day working at a small airport, my manager handed me a "bird banger" and told me to go down to the end of the runway and shoot it to scare off some birds. Its basically a pistol that has a cartridge shoved into the muzzle with a separate percussion cap sitting on the breech under a hammer. Anyway, I loaded it, pulled the trigger, and nothing happened. I did it a gain and still nothing. If finally fired after dropping the hammer three times.
He told me it wouldn't be loud. Then again, I later learned he was a Vietnam vet with hearing damage (and more) courtesy of an NVA RPG.
How about a video on the fusing mechanisms on the 5 and 16” projectiles. Seems. Like it could be important when trying to pound out a stuck / misfire projectile from the muzzle end.
Ditto misfired on me, re-primed and lanyard fired the gun while electrically firing on the third gong. It went bang.
I have had misfires, and once a hang fire which are potentially very dangerous. That is why if you have a misfire, keep the weapon pointed in a safe direction for 30 seconds, before opening the breech and removing the dud round. I have also experienced squib loads where the primer detonates, but the powder failed to ignite or was missing entirely. That drives the bullet into the rifling. If you press the trigger and the report is off in any way, STOP! there might be a bullet stuck in the barrel and if you chamber and fire another shot, it could blow your gun apart, injuring or killing you.
Had AGM65 Maverick Hang fire once. The dam thing, melted away the launcher with the rocket motor and its antenna fried from the heat. Had to land with it tracking but not armed. The seal team EOD made short work of it and kicked it over the side.
IIRC, th 5"38s on our WW II DD could easily get hot enough to "cook off" (make go "boom") a projectile that had been loaded and not fired. So you'd load an unloading charge of propellant (none contain "powder") and fire it on command to expel it at much reduced velocity from the muzzle. All of our 5"38s were electrically fired, not with percussion. Easy to see on a used case.
I shoot muzzleloaders occasionally and there's a gadget called a Safe-T-Unloader that uses a CO2 canister from a pellet gun to blow out the bullet and powder. It blows into the percussion nipple like pumping up a tire.
I just assumed battleships had a similar system since they have the ability to generate gobs of compressed air. Glad I was mistaken.
That is kind of what the short charge shot is. The compressed air just comes from burning propellant.
On flintlocks we use ramhooks. It's an attachment that screws onto the ramrod. It has sheet metal screw that screws into bullet allowing ramrod/ramhook to pull out the bullet...
@@tommysaulter9171
Yep, I've used them.
I think the term for the brass ring (most are copper or bronze) on the shells is "Driving bands", they are usually found on anything 20mm and up ( the 15mm BESA projectile is the smallest I've seen (which strangely has a double set of driving bands)). The worst example of misfire/hangfires I've seen was a bloke on a range trying to fire old Italian 1930's-40's 6.5mm ammunition. Out of 120 rounds more than half were duds, the rest were "click-bang" hangfires. Scary stuff.
On many guns, you use the rammer through the muzzle to hammer the round out. If you get a dud in a tank gun and you cant get it out of the breach, you push it out from the other side. In theory you could do something similar with the 16 inch gun but its much easier to just clear the gun by firing it.
Have you done, or can you do a video on the ballistics of the projectile based on different powder loads?
In the age of sail, the tool to extract the ball / shell was called a worm. It would extract the ball, but the powder bag couldn't be removed with out ripping it open. Hence firing the blank charge. If a charge was left in long enough, the gunner or gun captain would worm the ball, fire it off and replace with a fresh charge. You will notice naval guns, then and now, had plugs that fit in the muzzle ends, called tampion (tampon, if you are British). And yes, occasionally a gun would be fired with out removing the tampion first. Land base artillery does have the ability to extract unfired shells, but it is a pain in the butt. Everyone avoids it if they can. I would assume it's the same in navy...
This is something I've actually wondered about.
I had a live (there’s a 9mm tracer practice one and the actual warshot) AT4 rocket launcher misfire (complete failure of the rocket motor to ignite) ended up standing there five minutes before I was told, “drop it and run,” never ran so fast again. EOD ended taking it and blowing it up, was kind of a cool day…. Looking back at it.
In every cartoon I watched as a kid the slightest tap on the pointy end of the shell would make it blow up. I wonder how the new guys on the battleship felt the first time the procedure of banging on the pointy end of the shell was explained to them.
As I understand it, the shell is not fully armed until it leaves the gun.
Remember it must withstand much more force during firing than a person could apply with a weight.
@@1906Farnsworth...add to that the fact there is no nose fuse for a 16" rifle, all the shells are fitted with a base fuse.
I have seen one photo where one of the 16" projectiles detonated some 100m from the muzzle of the gun.
@@philgiglio7922 The AP MK8 shells had only a base fuse whereas the HC MK13 had both a base delay as well as a nose contact fuse to ensure proper function although they could use it with just one fuse.
The fuse activation system, I believe, had a rev counter and would only arm after the fired round had spun several thousand revolutions
The base fuse on a 16" shell requires an impact force equivalent to hitting it with a car or dropping it from 50 feet up. This is an armor/concrete piercing feature and not a safety feature, but it means they're basically insensible to the roughest handling a human could inflict on them without the benefit of heavy machinery. You could have John Henry beat on the base with a sledgehammer and it still wouldn't be enough force trigger it... on paper, anyway.
I had a couple miss-fires with reloads, but not ones that I reloaded myself. Besides that I shoot a lot of mil-surplus ammo and almost all of that goes bang every time I pull the trigger. Even ammo that's going on 75 years old. I did get one bad batch of Polish ammo from the '50s where maybe 1 in 50 rounds were no good.
A few months back, my buddy and I were shooting an M48 Mauser using some 80ish year old Czech surplus ammo. There were some uncomfortable hangfires, but nothing serious, so we kept using the ammo. We made a joke about how long to hold the rifle on target in case something went wrong, but I had never had that happen with that batch of ammunition before, so it was mostly a joke. On my buddy's turn with the rifle, he entered a crouch, aimed, and I saw him pull the trigger. I heard the release of the firing pin, but my buddy slowly looked up at me. Still no bang. We kept the rifle down range for about a minute or two before deciding to cycle the bolt. It was not a light strike -- the primer has a very clear indentation, so it sits in a water bottle for safety now.
Probably not as serious of a situation as a hangfire with a caliber numbered in inches, but my worst "Uh oh" experience with ammunition to date.
M16-A1 were know for hang fires since you didn't have cleaning kit for them. By the time I got mine I had a cleaning kit and I kept it clean, but sometimes bad ammo still makes it to the troops. MY Sargent was stickler on hang fires he saw two many with folks injured. He didn't want to write the report on it.
i could be waaay wrong but i think i may of seen on a historical video or another channel or read somewhere but basically you train the guns down and to an accessible point of the muzzle and more or less 'ramrod' the projectile out the back end via the muzzle and a very large dowel
maybe some large hammers too
Yes...wasn't a 16 inch or a 5 inch but I had a Walther P1 have a hang fire on me at the range a while back...
Still that same rusty spot on de breach as in the earlier video wish I was in the neighborhood I would fix that! Would make a great video how many ship curaters will it take to clear a rust spot
There was a piece of equipment that was put in through the muzzle, barrel raised and then said equipment would drop down and essentially "hammer" a projectile out of large naval artillery guns. Probably fine to use with an AP shell, but I doubt anyone would risk setting off the fuse of a HC shell. Much less having the projectile fall out of the breech and land on the shelf-plate and damaging it. They normally just rotated the turret in a safe direction and shot them off into the ocean.
I have never thought about this until I watched this video, but I have been interested in heavy artillery for quite some time. I would have thought that the base of each shell would have a threaded hole or holes in it that would accept a bolt(s) that could be threaded into the shell base, and using a hydraulic puller at the breech, the shell could gently be removed from the tube even with the copper rotating band engaged in the rifling.
The real solution is a lot more low-tech. Basically a giant brass hammer that you drop down the front end in the hope that it will dislodge the shell.
You don’t really want to put holes in the base of the projo. It’s structurally a very undesirable situation, particularly when you’re looking at a pretty rare situation.
I'm a retired Field Artillery guy - 155mm howitzers. While it's possible to back out a rammed round, the only way I would ever let a rammed round leave the tube is pointy end first.
Funny story, and it's even true - one of my sections had loaded a round and closed the breech just as we received a check fire (cease firing). My lieutenant was on the gun line and the #1 man (the guy with the lanyard in his hand) asked him what he should do. The LT said, "Get that round out of the tube!" So the E-4 holding the lanyard gave it a mighty yank and the round was out of the tube - and headed downrange. I couldn't blame him, though, because the LT's instructions weren't clear.
I had a misfire in a 243 Win years ago, found out later the primer had no compound in it,was a factory load as well
As a Gunners Mate on a 5" 54 there was No way to clear the projectile back threw the breech! You could fire what we called a "Short Charge" This was a powder charge that only contained enough charge to safety push projectile a very short distance out the barrel. Im sure during WWII with a 16" gun you just halted the supply operation of ammunition to the gun and fired it at a safe place of opportunity..
I was a Gunners Mate on a 6" 47 USS Providence CLG 6 in Vietnam 1972. At times when we had extremely hot barrels and the sliding wedge breach block would malfunction requiring repairs that would take longer than the estimated cookoff time for the projectile. Our backing out tool used the wooden poles used for the brushes to clean the barrel fitted with a backing out collar. The 6" turret was on the main deck so with guns lowered several of us would be on the poles pounding on the projectile and backing it out and throwing it overboard. There was a 5" 38 mount on the 02 level directly behind the 6" turret so there was no way to reach the ends of the barrels. The short charge would work if the breach block wasn't malfunctioning.
The "short" on the 16" guns was six bags of 8" powder. That stuff was older than the hills with very inconsistent velocities. We only fired it a couple of times. It was meant to be used for reverse slope firing, sort of a high angle shot that would be like a morter round.
So, your question "Have you ever had a misfire?" Yes, dozens, possibly hundreds. But the question on a Navy oriented channel just made me answer.
When I entered boot camp at San Diego, I knew it was going to be a big giant mind game, and the only thing that sounded halfway fun was weapon familiarization. I started shooting at 5 years old and spent weeks looking forward to it.Finally, the day comes. Listen to all of the instruction. Take my place behind the firing line. First string was 5 rounds slow fire. I put the round in battery, released the safety, took aim, careful trigger squeeze, annnnd.....click. Round failure. So I pointed my weapon down range and raised my hand. By the time the armorer came to clear the round (I could have done that!) my group's time was up, and off we marched to whatever the next evolution was.
There were many disappointments in my Navy career. This was not the worst. Thanks for the question!!
You would have been disappointed anyways. The 1911's they had in '87 were modified to fire .22LR.
Take a look at satellite pics sometime. RTC is gone. NTC is all civilian now, and pretty much a collection of yuppie art galleries and such. No current info on if any of the bars down on Rosecrans still have doormen who have poor eyesight and can mistake a $10 bill for valid ID.
I’ve had a misfire on a Chieftain tank, which turned in to a hang fire. We were getting ready to open the breach when the charge (we also used bag charges, just 120mm) ignited.
Another tank thought they get a round loaded, expecting to be given another target. Instead they got check firing (stop firing). Normally not a problem, but the next morning they were ordered to change ranges, huge problem. You can’t drive around German roads with your gun loaded. They tried to clear it with a hydraulic shock (water behind the projectile followed by a small charge), well I think that crew hold the record for the biggest “Water pistol”. The charge went off, the water went around the projectile in the rifling😂 This meant they had to drive the tank, on German roads, with a loaded main armament.
I’m a civil war artillery re enact or. It was a blank, but none the less we had a misfire on a 12 pound Napoleon cannon. That was a fun one to clear.🤬
While black powder elk hunting I've had a few misfirings. My state doesn't allow the use of 209 shotgun primers. A wet PNW woods and musket caps make for an iffy proposition.
Time for rock, paper, scissors on who is going to go get all the power bags out of the gun 😁👍!
On 5 inch guns they have extraction case with a higher pressure to blow the shell out!
You can not push it back in!!! As the fuse would serve off the shell!!
Yes I have had misfire and Hang fire on both cartridges and muzzle loader. you do very similar in process to release a misfire
I've dealt with misfires on a 12 pounder bronze Napoleon - fortunately none with a projectile loaded. In that case you have to drown the powder via the vent, as very little is likely to get past the projectile if one is loaded.