UPDATE: Some minor changes have been made public. Check out the link in the description for that. UPDATE: recent information from Brightline has increased the cost estimate of this project to $12 billion. Renderings of the Vegas station popped up RIGHT when I was putting this video together. You can find those with a simple Google search. In a Las Vegas Review-Journal article about it there is also indication of additional development in that area including a large resort and a new arena aimed at wooing an NBA team. Forces may be in motion to finally get this started!
There are three aspects of this. One, it contributes further to the noise generated. Two, the train will require that the freeway lanes be moved closer to receptors in spots. This is mainly in the Victorville and Barstow areas. Three, there are places where the train will elevate above freeway sound mitigation and thereby project sound more efficiently to areas that are currently benefitting from said mitigation. This is mainly in the Vegas area.
4:35 I will say that Brightline West's founder wanted this line to be modeled off of Eurostar's London to Paris route, which right now averages 133 mph (due to some slow sections mostly on the UK side, and the Channel Tunnel). That 97mph average speed definitely can be improved on though... we'll see what the FRA decides if and when this gets built.
Because of the width of the I-15 median, I think that Brightline West's track can wander from side to side across the median to maximize the radius of curvature and thus train speed. Since the train will be protected by barriers throughout -- much like the CHSRA line being built along sections of highway -- it does not need to stay in the center of the median all the way.
I don't think it can. The median is only about 75-100 feet wide in the wider parts. I think if they were running elevated they could do something like use the entire width of the ROW to smooth out curves, but that would be expensive.
@@LucidStew Around Mountain Pass, the median widens to over 200 feet. Also, for relatively short curves, this "apex-to-apex" kind of design can work. For example, the curve just west of Baker, CA is one place where the track can start along the SB lanes, pin the apex along the NB lanes, and then swing back to along the SB lanes. Following I-15 would be prohibitively costly if every overpass had to be rebuilt, but there is enough space to grade a roadbed past a bridge support without disturbing the alignment. It may also be cost effective to grade a new roadbed along various segments of I-15 to allow for higher train speeds without displacing the Brightline West track from the freeway median.
@@pacificostudios Yes, that is true about the portion near Mountain Pass. Good point. That will also remain single tracked, so perhaps they will do that there. You have to remember though that most of the rest would eventually be double-tracked and they run out of room. I think its more likely they'd use the Alstom Alevia Liberty for its tilting. Not saying they couldn't or wouldn't leverage the median width. It just didn't appear that wide to me in many places. Once they get out into the desert it did appear to me that they would probably be able to squeeze past infrastructure without having to replace it. This was mostly untrue from Rancho through Victorville and then also through Barstow, but they plan to keep the vast majority of that single-tracked.
It’s extremely interesting to note…when they recently redid the freeway pavement, they poured asphalt where they have to dig it up later because you can reuse it. Especially at 10:00 where you mention the train comes over and back into the center divider, you can see the asphalt line grow into the far left lane. Now all they have to do is add more cement to the right side to add extra lanes. Genius!
I'd need to gear-up a little. Realistically, I'd probably only cover the Hesperia to Rancho portion like this, but I know there are people that want to cover this with the drone footage and all that on the Vegas end too.
Learning about the actual speeds of the route has me cautiously optimistic. Knowing that there will be speed restrictions along this route has me wondering if this project is high speed rail at all, but a rail line with high speed sections. Because most high speed rail lines don’t have speed restrictions on curves, with some exceptions like within cities and noise zones, at least from what I’ve noticed. Also, knowing that Brightline won’t double track most of the route is a weird thought. I know that these decisions are so that the project won’t be delayed, and that they can keep costs down so in that respect, I guess it’s okay. Regardless, it does seem this line (once it gets built) will be competitive enough with cars and perhaps in the far future, they’ll be able to make upgrades to the line in order to cut journey times, and this doesn’t just mean double tracking sections. More as in straightening curves and realigning sections so trains won’t need to slow down as much.
I think there is definitely a part of this ROW where they will be able to exceed 150mph and it will be relatively quick overall. The Rancho Cucamonga - Apple Valley portion is planned closer to a traditional passenger line with some parts that might hit highER speed. Apple Valley - Vegas a little quicker with a 105MPH average. Assuming its done before any other project in the works, that will be among the fastest passenger lines in the country, other Brightline routes in Florida being the competition. That is the thing about this idea fad of putting HSR in freeway right-of-ways. Of course, freeways are not designed for 200MPH vehicles. More like 75 or 80 and so there will be curves that a train must slow down for, or more expensive measures like constantly crossing lanes, or tunneling, or breaking out of the freeway right of way would be necessary. But CAHSR also begs the question somewhat: isn't it ok to settle a little if it gets you there 20 minutes slower and actually gets built? I'm also hopeful they'll not only expand to the 22.5 minute headways, but also work to improve the overall route and travel time. That's probably 20-30 years down the line, but I think watching the developments in U.S. HSR from now until then will be very interesting.
@@LucidStew if you aquire land. Brightline will be happy to build it. THE reason why CAHSR will take 50 years to build. This is safe for brightline, and the ROW makes things a lot easier. Yes people are dissapointed, but they must be glad that they even take the effort to build a rasil at all, despite a lot of pushback from oil gas and car lobbyists. Take that into account as well. People talk way to easy. Brightline should do this and that instead. Its not easy being a privateer building rails in the USA. Any infrastructure prjects for that matter.
Great work! One thing I would note is that at their board meeting in April, Metrolink stated that they'd gotten Brightline to agree to adjust their frequencies from the awkward 45-minute as planned in the EIS to instead be hourly such as to better line up with the San Bernardino Line schedule so I'm not sure how that would impact things. Also, the permanent single-track through Barstow seems like a big detriment to the fact that they should instead be planning to put a station there too at some point in the future. Hopefully, this design wouldn't preclude that from happening.
Fewer trains doesn't sound good. Maybe they're thinking they'd expand to half hour service sooner than later. It doesn't look IMPOSSIBLE to double-track through Barstow. It looks like they'd have to build new overpass bridges on nearly every intersection through Barstow and possibly redo some interchanges entirely like at Lenwood Rd. and Main St. Of course a grant or something like that makes those concerns go away. I personally don't see the necessity for a station there.
I'm not sure if the grades on this route will require slowing down that much. The train that Brightline West is going to use on this route, the Siemens Velaro, currently operates on the Cologne-Frankfurt high speed line in Germany, which has grades as steep as 4% and a speed limit of 300 km/h (roughly 180 mph). So I don't think the grades on this route will really slow the train down to 125 mph. We'll see...
In the EIR they have the speed limit near Hallorin Summit @ 135mph and 125mph through Baker, so I was assuming they would probably maintain speed through that portion because of the grade rather than expend the energy to change speed. I'm curious to see what the actual schedule is because with a 180-200mph top speed, its difficult to figure out how its going to take a much as 2h-2h20m to get there.
@@LucidStew That's interesting, I'll have to take a look at the EIR. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this won't be fully 180 mph for the whole length given that Brightline's other line in Florida is often called "high speed" by the media even though only a small part of it is 125 mph, and it's really just higher speed rail.
@@compdude100 The portion between Barstow and the outskirts of Vegas should be pretty fast by U.S. standards. I have them averaging about 110mph over that stretch. It's the city parts and Cajon Pass that trip them up for the most part.
I don't recall ever experiencing that, but I don't doubt it. It's certainly bright enough for that to be true. I would assume you'd be more likely to run into that during winter?
@@LucidStew It was in August. We were driving down to Newport for a week. It was a hot day, but you could really feel the heat coming through the glass. So bright, it was/is mesmerizing. I like your vids!
Yeah, I think so if they wanted to do that. The Velaro Novos top out around there too. I'm guessing the main thing is probably the impact on the freeway.
The current planned stations and future potential stations between Cajon Pass and LV... are Economic Development Zones of high value. Because there are no more tracts of land within the LA Basin to build large amounts of 'new build' housing... these what may seem remote stations (nothing around), will very quickly become towns/cities of 100k plus in size. The time projected time tables of when new railway lines will reach capacity are always Wrong. You listed 11.5 years. Brightline West (and other potential operators on the tracks) will find capacity is reached as originally constructed in less than two years. If they plan the LGV's correctly (like the Paris to Bordeaux LGV), the High Speed Railway (LGV) will be continuous ribbons of steel from LA to LV. All stations will be on spurs that diverge and merge a few km before and after each station. This is how there can be service patterns of the milk run - hitting every station vs the InterCity Express - a full train from LA, OC, RC to LV without any other intermediary stations. Also on the Cajon Pass where the North and South lanes of the 15 diverge to have space between and is very circuitous... the railway tracks could be on a line that is more direct as in the straight line through the S bends as in $ symbol. It increases speed and requires less banking of the railway tracks... building on \ or / inclines so HSTs can take curves at speed. Again... Slab track with springs under totally eliminates any vibration or noise issues. HSTs - New... have very little noise when passing and as they pass so quickly, blink and miss it so to say... noise and vibrations are irrelevant and very 1980s ideology/mentality.
Look up 'cbc 2023 real estate symposium'. That's where some of this information is from. Seems like there will be some good opportunities around those stations in the high desert. The area around the Rancho station is mostly warehouses, although there is still some vacant land around there. That seems to be filling up with large apartment complexes, which this would probably accelerate. It certainly poses some interesting economic possibilities. This would really help to further connect the high desert with the Inland Empire. Toyota Arena, Auto Club Speedway, Ontario International Airport, Ontario Mills Mall, and Victoria Gardens are all within 3 miles of the Rancho station, so you have plenty of potential destination traffic for right around the station coming from the north. This also opens up events for high desert residents without having to drive since there are no large venues up there.
I can't believe they're not planning a stop in Barstow. It's a major highway junction (regular railroad too!) and with the difficulty of driving from Central and Northern California to Las Vegas, it's the logical transfer point.
Makes sense to me. Its an express train. its not meant to stop everywhere along the route. Only about 30,000 people live out there. It's only about 20 miles from the Apple Valley station site.
@@LucidStew Your unnecessarily sarcastic remark misunderstands the thrust of my comment. It’s not about Barstow as a major population center (although granted it makes far more sense as a stop than the one that’s literally tens of MILES distant from Apple Valley or from Victorville where it actually belongs). It has to do with the fact that it’s a logical transfer point for people driving from Bakersfield or other places in the Central Valley who might not want to continue the already long roundabout drive all the way to Las Vegas.
@@rgps-53 I wasn't being sarcastic. I laid out the reasons why it makes sense to me that they're not build a station in Barstow. It's only 20 miles from Barstow to the Apple Valley site. I doubt anyone driving from Bakersfield would care if they ended up at one or the other. Best I can tell, they chose the Apple Valley site because it afforded them the ability to acquire a large tract of freeway-adjacent land for their maintenance and storage facilities. It is also pretty central to Barstow-Apple Valley-Victorville-Hesperia region, considering.
@@LucidStew The only downside of not stopping in Barstow is their gorgeous train station, but that wouldn't be on the actual route in any case. Still worth a visit if you're driving.
Having ridden the 150 mph all electric Amtrak Acela train in the Norheast Corridor and also watching it come through small commuter rail stations along the way, there is no loud noise, no rumbling diesel engine noise, just a moderate swish noise as it passes within a few feet of the station platform. Noise is a non issue. its a swish lasting a few seconds not a mile long freight train rumbling for minutes.
Are you talking about the California station site? I think its technically county, but it's surrounded by Apple Valley on the far north end. Victorville stops a little further south down by Stoddard Wells.
I'm confused. First ot was from LA to Begas. Then I herd Victorville to Vegas. Now Apple Valley. 🤷🏿♂️. Just wake me up when the darn thing is done already.
Another good video, but I think it needs more commentary and some technical graphics on the screen as the highway trip progresses...not just music. And I think there needs to be a variety of instrumental music. All things considered, you did a good job. Now to the house substance. I am increasingly skeptical about the design of this project, and its technical and economic feasibility. The competing proposals from both the French (SNCF) and Germans (Siemens) in 1991 for the HSR franchise competition in Texas called for 200 feet of right-of-way on all three routes. To claim you can have true HSR on anything less than 100 feet is ridiculous.... PERIOD...end of the debate. Moreover, stopping the service in Rancho Cucamonga will greatly increase the probability of failure. Changing trains at RC will not work because the Metrolink commuter trains are way too slow and have too many stops, and they don't have the amenities planned for the Brightline trains. The list of problems goes on and on and on, greatly diminishing the chance for success. Having said that. I wish them good luck.
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. I do think I could have included more information, but it was going to be a mostly empty video regardless due to its length. I also wanted to stick to the theme, so I purposely left out random facts along the way. I probably could have filled some time with that, but it was by design. Same with the music. Went for the Vegas/lounge theme. Tough to fill 1h20mins with free music and not repeat. I will keep the feedback in mind though if I do another of this length. On the speed issue... the average speed for the headways in the EIRs is fairly low: 94mph for Rancho-Vegas and 105mph for Apple Valley-Vegas, so I don't think it NEEDS to be over 125mph at any point. The median for a good portion of I-15 in the desert is in the 75-100ft range. Same for each side in a lot of those places. I don't see Rancho as an issue. I grew up in the area and can tell you almost everyone is used to driving an hour or more to get somewhere. 10 million people live within 50 miles of that station. It may not be ideal if you're coming in by Metrolink, but I would imagine most people would drive to the 8th St. station anyway. They're also going to use that Hesperia station for commuters to supplement usage during the week.
It will come later. Brightline East has built two additional Stations in South Florida after it was opened. Many people complained at first they were missing out not having intermediate stations between Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach. They built ten later. They will build two more intermediate stations between Orland and West Beach later. They will run trains that stop at every station and some express trains that don't make all stops. If the Feds ask them, (maybe Barstow should too) and pay them like San Bernardino County did for Hesperia to Rancho Cucamonga to run extra commuter service to LA at Rancho Cucamonga they will and its not a show stopper.
Don't know why it didn't occur to me before, but one the reasons they'll only average 105mph is that they'll have to wait at a passing siding at least once on this part. Maybe twice. It has to be to keep costs down. I think if you double-tracked through all the populated areas it would double or even triple the cost of the whole project because of all the land acquisition, demolition, and freeway widening required. I'm not sure about some of the desert areas they plan to keep single track even after moving to 22.5 min headways. Maybe it's just not necessary, so why build it?
@@LucidStew It seems ridiculous to me. I don't know of any high speed railways throughout the world that are single-track. Imagine if demand picks up earlier than their projections...it'll do nothing but cause delays. The combination of delays, and the fact that the train does not actually terminate in LA or closer to the LV strip makes me think that people would reconsider riding a train to Las Vegas. You get what you pay for, indeed. I really don't get why we are content with mediocrity. People keep calling Brightline Florida "high speed," when it's not even close; people are hailing Brightline as the "future of high speed rail" in this country, when they have yet to build an actual high speed railway. Brightline in Florida is plagued with railway crossing accidents because they took the cheap way out by not building a completely grade-separated railway, and now they're going to build a somewhat single-track high speed railway in the west. If this is the future of "high speed" rail in this country, then we need to raise our standards.
@@TheRailwayDrone Their plan to handle capacity expansion before building more double track is to initially run 2/3 singular trains(400 capacity) and 1/3 coupled trains(800 capacity). They will then add more coupled trains until they're all coupled. But they have to build it before we can see if that works out. :)
@@LucidStew Ok I can see how that can be a good thing. I really hope they're successful. I've pretty much had it with the regressive people in this country who are against anything that makes our lives better as a whole. I'm almost 90% sure I'm going to leave this place for good.
@@TheRailwayDrone One of the reasons I'm interested in this project is because even as far back as 2005 when Desert Xpress popped up, traffic to Vegas was getting pretty bad. A lot the business Vegas does comes from southern California. People drive out there multiple times a year. I honestly think its an attractive option and something people will want to try. I think it would be really nice leaving the car behind on a trip like that and not having to dread the 3-6 hour drive back.
Ivanpah Solar is not a zero emissions power plant. It requires natural gas ro run in mornings and the fact that it fries any wildlife (birds, insects, etc), it is not eco-green nor is it something to celebrate as it increases area temps by 10+ degrees by means of being a heat island effect source. So bad example.
Really? Seriously? Do I have to wait for this one too? Because I have been waiting for the other since decades past ...and I have not seen any train is coming soon yet..... And, now we are going for Las Vegas and DOUBLE it all down.....LOL
UPDATE: Some minor changes have been made public. Check out the link in the description for that.
UPDATE: recent information from Brightline has increased the cost estimate of this project to $12 billion.
Renderings of the Vegas station popped up RIGHT when I was putting this video together. You can find those with a simple Google search. In a Las Vegas Review-Journal article about it there is also indication of additional development in that area including a large resort and a new arena aimed at wooing an NBA team. Forces may be in motion to finally get this started!
very well done. Thank You for the drive
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
This was both extremely informative and relaxing ! Gave me a good idea of what they're dealing with on this projects, thank you.
The idea of slowing an electric high speed train running in the median of a 6 total lane highway for "noise and vibration" is NUTS
There are three aspects of this. One, it contributes further to the noise generated. Two, the train will require that the freeway lanes be moved closer to receptors in spots. This is mainly in the Victorville and Barstow areas. Three, there are places where the train will elevate above freeway sound mitigation and thereby project sound more efficiently to areas that are currently benefitting from said mitigation. This is mainly in the Vegas area.
4:35 I will say that Brightline West's founder wanted this line to be modeled off of Eurostar's London to Paris route, which right now averages 133 mph (due to some slow sections mostly on the UK side, and the Channel Tunnel). That 97mph average speed definitely can be improved on though... we'll see what the FRA decides if and when this gets built.
Because of the width of the I-15 median, I think that Brightline West's track can wander from side to side across the median to maximize the radius of curvature and thus train speed. Since the train will be protected by barriers throughout -- much like the CHSRA line being built along sections of highway -- it does not need to stay in the center of the median all the way.
I don't think it can. The median is only about 75-100 feet wide in the wider parts. I think if they were running elevated they could do something like use the entire width of the ROW to smooth out curves, but that would be expensive.
@@LucidStew Around Mountain Pass, the median widens to over 200 feet. Also, for relatively short curves, this "apex-to-apex" kind of design can work. For example, the curve just west of Baker, CA is one place where the track can start along the SB lanes, pin the apex along the NB lanes, and then swing back to along the SB lanes. Following I-15 would be prohibitively costly if every overpass had to be rebuilt, but there is enough space to grade a roadbed past a bridge support without disturbing the alignment.
It may also be cost effective to grade a new roadbed along various segments of I-15 to allow for higher train speeds without displacing the Brightline West track from the freeway median.
@@pacificostudios Yes, that is true about the portion near Mountain Pass. Good point. That will also remain single tracked, so perhaps they will do that there. You have to remember though that most of the rest would eventually be double-tracked and they run out of room. I think its more likely they'd use the Alstom Alevia Liberty for its tilting. Not saying they couldn't or wouldn't leverage the median width. It just didn't appear that wide to me in many places.
Once they get out into the desert it did appear to me that they would probably be able to squeeze past infrastructure without having to replace it. This was mostly untrue from Rancho through Victorville and then also through Barstow, but they plan to keep the vast majority of that single-tracked.
It’s extremely interesting to note…when they recently redid the freeway pavement, they poured asphalt where they have to dig it up later because you can reuse it. Especially at 10:00 where you mention the train comes over and back into the center divider, you can see the asphalt line grow into the far left lane. Now all they have to do is add more cement to the right side to add extra lanes. Genius!
well spotted!
I hope when construction gets underway you can replicate what The Roaming Railfan is doing for Brightline Florida
I'd need to gear-up a little. Realistically, I'd probably only cover the Hesperia to Rancho portion like this, but I know there are people that want to cover this with the drone footage and all that on the Vegas end too.
@@LucidStew Just add a batter charger and charge at the rest area.
Thanks for getting us up to speed on this project.
awesome video, vegas just keeps growing . what will happen to primm ?
When I was out there to film this, it was practically a ghost town.
thank you so much...
Learning about the actual speeds of the route has me cautiously optimistic. Knowing that there will be speed restrictions along this route has me wondering if this project is high speed rail at all, but a rail line with high speed sections. Because most high speed rail lines don’t have speed restrictions on curves, with some exceptions like within cities and noise zones, at least from what I’ve noticed. Also, knowing that Brightline won’t double track most of the route is a weird thought.
I know that these decisions are so that the project won’t be delayed, and that they can keep costs down so in that respect, I guess it’s okay. Regardless, it does seem this line (once it gets built) will be competitive enough with cars and perhaps in the far future, they’ll be able to make upgrades to the line in order to cut journey times, and this doesn’t just mean double tracking sections. More as in straightening curves and realigning sections so trains won’t need to slow down as much.
I think there is definitely a part of this ROW where they will be able to exceed 150mph and it will be relatively quick overall. The Rancho Cucamonga - Apple Valley portion is planned closer to a traditional passenger line with some parts that might hit highER speed. Apple Valley - Vegas a little quicker with a 105MPH average. Assuming its done before any other project in the works, that will be among the fastest passenger lines in the country, other Brightline routes in Florida being the competition.
That is the thing about this idea fad of putting HSR in freeway right-of-ways. Of course, freeways are not designed for 200MPH vehicles. More like 75 or 80 and so there will be curves that a train must slow down for, or more expensive measures like constantly crossing lanes, or tunneling, or breaking out of the freeway right of way would be necessary.
But CAHSR also begs the question somewhat: isn't it ok to settle a little if it gets you there 20 minutes slower and actually gets built?
I'm also hopeful they'll not only expand to the 22.5 minute headways, but also work to improve the overall route and travel time. That's probably 20-30 years down the line, but I think watching the developments in U.S. HSR from now until then will be very interesting.
@@LucidStew if you aquire land. Brightline will be happy to build it. THE reason why CAHSR will take 50 years to build. This is safe for brightline, and the ROW makes things a lot easier. Yes people are dissapointed, but they must be glad that they even take the effort to build a rasil at all, despite a lot of pushback from oil gas and car lobbyists. Take that into account as well. People talk way to easy. Brightline should do this and that instead. Its not easy being a privateer building rails in the USA. Any infrastructure prjects for that matter.
Great work! One thing I would note is that at their board meeting in April, Metrolink stated that they'd gotten Brightline to agree to adjust their frequencies from the awkward 45-minute as planned in the EIS to instead be hourly such as to better line up with the San Bernardino Line schedule so I'm not sure how that would impact things. Also, the permanent single-track through Barstow seems like a big detriment to the fact that they should instead be planning to put a station there too at some point in the future. Hopefully, this design wouldn't preclude that from happening.
Fewer trains doesn't sound good. Maybe they're thinking they'd expand to half hour service sooner than later. It doesn't look IMPOSSIBLE to double-track through Barstow. It looks like they'd have to build new overpass bridges on nearly every intersection through Barstow and possibly redo some interchanges entirely like at Lenwood Rd. and Main St. Of course a grant or something like that makes those concerns go away. I personally don't see the necessity for a station there.
I'm not sure if the grades on this route will require slowing down that much. The train that Brightline West is going to use on this route, the Siemens Velaro, currently operates on the Cologne-Frankfurt high speed line in Germany, which has grades as steep as 4% and a speed limit of 300 km/h (roughly 180 mph). So I don't think the grades on this route will really slow the train down to 125 mph. We'll see...
In the EIR they have the speed limit near Hallorin Summit @ 135mph and 125mph through Baker, so I was assuming they would probably maintain speed through that portion because of the grade rather than expend the energy to change speed. I'm curious to see what the actual schedule is because with a 180-200mph top speed, its difficult to figure out how its going to take a much as 2h-2h20m to get there.
@@LucidStew That's interesting, I'll have to take a look at the EIR. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this won't be fully 180 mph for the whole length given that Brightline's other line in Florida is often called "high speed" by the media even though only a small part of it is 125 mph, and it's really just higher speed rail.
@@compdude100 The portion between Barstow and the outskirts of Vegas should be pretty fast by U.S. standards. I have them averaging about 110mph over that stretch. It's the city parts and Cajon Pass that trip them up for the most part.
Fun fact re Ivanpah Solar Power Plant: If the weather is right, you can feel the heat coming off of it right through your cars' windows.
I don't recall ever experiencing that, but I don't doubt it. It's certainly bright enough for that to be true. I would assume you'd be more likely to run into that during winter?
@@LucidStew It was in August. We were driving down to Newport for a week. It was a hot day, but you could really feel the heat coming through the glass. So bright, it was/is mesmerizing. I like your vids!
Would 220 mph be possible? I heard the new avelias can do that speed. And there is a few portions of this that are painfully straight.
Yeah, I think so if they wanted to do that. The Velaro Novos top out around there too. I'm guessing the main thing is probably the impact on the freeway.
What is the approximate total time from Downtown LA to Las Vegas (metro link + Brightline)?
Around 3 1/2 hours
I don't know how you drove that far without getting fed up with the traffic
Traffic was actually pretty good going out there that time, which was surprising.
The current planned stations and future potential stations between Cajon Pass and LV... are Economic Development Zones of high value.
Because there are no more tracts of land within the LA Basin to build large amounts of 'new build' housing... these what may seem remote stations (nothing around), will very quickly become towns/cities of 100k plus in size.
The time projected time tables of when new railway lines will reach capacity are always Wrong.
You listed 11.5 years. Brightline West (and other potential operators on the tracks) will find capacity is reached as originally constructed in less than two years.
If they plan the LGV's correctly (like the Paris to Bordeaux LGV), the High Speed Railway (LGV) will be continuous ribbons of steel from LA to LV. All stations will be on spurs that diverge and merge a few km before and after each station. This is how there can be service patterns of the milk run - hitting every station vs the InterCity Express - a full train from LA, OC, RC to LV without any other intermediary stations.
Also on the Cajon Pass where the North and South lanes of the 15 diverge to have space between and is very circuitous... the railway tracks could be on a line that is more direct as in the straight line through the S bends as in $ symbol. It increases speed and requires less banking of the railway tracks... building on \ or / inclines so HSTs can take curves at speed.
Again... Slab track with springs under totally eliminates any vibration or noise issues.
HSTs - New... have very little noise when passing and as they pass so quickly, blink and miss it so to say... noise and vibrations are irrelevant and very 1980s ideology/mentality.
would this increase the property value in Apple Valley and Rancho? and would there be more new business entering because of this new construction?
Look up 'cbc 2023 real estate symposium'. That's where some of this information is from. Seems like there will be some good opportunities around those stations in the high desert. The area around the Rancho station is mostly warehouses, although there is still some vacant land around there. That seems to be filling up with large apartment complexes, which this would probably accelerate. It certainly poses some interesting economic possibilities. This would really help to further connect the high desert with the Inland Empire. Toyota Arena, Auto Club Speedway, Ontario International Airport, Ontario Mills Mall, and Victoria Gardens are all within 3 miles of the Rancho station, so you have plenty of potential destination traffic for right around the station coming from the north. This also opens up events for high desert residents without having to drive since there are no large venues up there.
I can't believe they're not planning a stop in Barstow. It's a major highway junction (regular railroad too!) and with the difficulty of driving from Central and Northern California to Las Vegas, it's the logical transfer point.
Makes sense to me. Its an express train. its not meant to stop everywhere along the route. Only about 30,000 people live out there. It's only about 20 miles from the Apple Valley station site.
@@LucidStew Your unnecessarily sarcastic remark misunderstands the thrust of my comment. It’s not about Barstow as a major population center (although granted it makes far more sense as a stop than the one that’s literally tens of MILES distant from Apple Valley or from Victorville where it actually belongs). It has to do with the fact that it’s a logical transfer point for people driving from Bakersfield or other places in the Central Valley who might not want to continue the already long roundabout drive all the way to Las Vegas.
@@rgps-53 I wasn't being sarcastic. I laid out the reasons why it makes sense to me that they're not build a station in Barstow. It's only 20 miles from Barstow to the Apple Valley site. I doubt anyone driving from Bakersfield would care if they ended up at one or the other. Best I can tell, they chose the Apple Valley site because it afforded them the ability to acquire a large tract of freeway-adjacent land for their maintenance and storage facilities. It is also pretty central to Barstow-Apple Valley-Victorville-Hesperia region, considering.
@@LucidStew The only downside of not stopping in Barstow is their gorgeous train station, but that wouldn't be on the actual route in any case. Still worth a visit if you're driving.
When are the CAHSR & BLW FRA grants to be announced?
End of the year. I don't have a date. If I run across something more specific, I'll update.
@@LucidStew Thanks with much appreciation.
Having ridden the 150 mph all electric Amtrak Acela train in the Norheast Corridor and also watching it come through small commuter rail stations along the way, there is no loud noise, no rumbling diesel engine noise, just a moderate swish noise as it passes within a few feet of the station platform. Noise is a non issue. its a swish lasting a few seconds not a mile long freight train rumbling for minutes.
Isn't that Victorville?
Are you talking about the California station site? I think its technically county, but it's surrounded by Apple Valley on the far north end. Victorville stops a little further south down by Stoddard Wells.
I'm confused. First ot was from LA to Begas. Then I herd Victorville to Vegas. Now Apple Valley. 🤷🏿♂️. Just wake me up when the darn thing is done already.
gr8 work
Another good video, but I think it needs more commentary and some technical graphics on the screen as the highway trip progresses...not just music. And I think there needs to be a variety of instrumental music. All things considered, you did a good job. Now to the house substance. I am increasingly skeptical about the design of this project, and its technical and economic feasibility. The competing proposals from both the French (SNCF) and Germans (Siemens) in 1991 for the HSR franchise competition in Texas called for 200 feet of right-of-way on all three routes. To claim you can have true HSR on anything less than 100 feet is ridiculous.... PERIOD...end of the debate. Moreover, stopping the service in Rancho Cucamonga will greatly increase the probability of failure. Changing trains at RC will not work because the Metrolink commuter trains are way too slow and have too many stops, and they don't have the amenities planned for the Brightline trains. The list of problems goes on and on and on, greatly diminishing the chance for success. Having said that. I wish them good luck.
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. I do think I could have included more information, but it was going to be a mostly empty video regardless due to its length. I also wanted to stick to the theme, so I purposely left out random facts along the way. I probably could have filled some time with that, but it was by design. Same with the music. Went for the Vegas/lounge theme. Tough to fill 1h20mins with free music and not repeat. I will keep the feedback in mind though if I do another of this length.
On the speed issue... the average speed for the headways in the EIRs is fairly low: 94mph for Rancho-Vegas and 105mph for Apple Valley-Vegas, so I don't think it NEEDS to be over 125mph at any point. The median for a good portion of I-15 in the desert is in the 75-100ft range. Same for each side in a lot of those places.
I don't see Rancho as an issue. I grew up in the area and can tell you almost everyone is used to driving an hour or more to get somewhere. 10 million people live within 50 miles of that station. It may not be ideal if you're coming in by Metrolink, but I would imagine most people would drive to the 8th St. station anyway. They're also going to use that Hesperia station for commuters to supplement usage during the week.
With respect to Federal funds, I don't see this happening without a stop in Barstow. WHY? Major military installations located in the immediate area.
It will come later. Brightline East has built two additional Stations in South Florida after it was opened. Many people complained at first they were missing out not having intermediate stations between Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach. They built ten later. They will build two more intermediate stations between Orland and West Beach later. They will run trains that stop at every station and some express trains that don't make all stops. If the Feds ask them, (maybe Barstow should too) and pay them like San Bernardino County did for Hesperia to Rancho Cucamonga to run extra commuter service to LA at Rancho Cucamonga they will and its not a show stopper.
A stop in Barstow definitely makes sense. One stop in Apple Valley is all that is necessary.
I don't get building a single-track high speed railway.
Don't know why it didn't occur to me before, but one the reasons they'll only average 105mph is that they'll have to wait at a passing siding at least once on this part. Maybe twice. It has to be to keep costs down. I think if you double-tracked through all the populated areas it would double or even triple the cost of the whole project because of all the land acquisition, demolition, and freeway widening required. I'm not sure about some of the desert areas they plan to keep single track even after moving to 22.5 min headways. Maybe it's just not necessary, so why build it?
@@LucidStew It seems ridiculous to me. I don't know of any high speed railways throughout the world that are single-track. Imagine if demand picks up earlier than their projections...it'll do nothing but cause delays. The combination of delays, and the fact that the train does not actually terminate in LA or closer to the LV strip makes me think that people would reconsider riding a train to Las Vegas. You get what you pay for, indeed. I really don't get why we are content with mediocrity.
People keep calling Brightline Florida "high speed," when it's not even close; people are hailing Brightline as the "future of high speed rail" in this country, when they have yet to build an actual high speed railway. Brightline in Florida is plagued with railway crossing accidents because they took the cheap way out by not building a completely grade-separated railway, and now they're going to build a somewhat single-track high speed railway in the west. If this is the future of "high speed" rail in this country, then we need to raise our standards.
@@TheRailwayDrone Their plan to handle capacity expansion before building more double track is to initially run 2/3 singular trains(400 capacity) and 1/3 coupled trains(800 capacity). They will then add more coupled trains until they're all coupled. But they have to build it before we can see if that works out. :)
@@LucidStew Ok I can see how that can be a good thing. I really hope they're successful. I've pretty much had it with the regressive people in this country who are against anything that makes our lives better as a whole. I'm almost 90% sure I'm going to leave this place for good.
@@TheRailwayDrone One of the reasons I'm interested in this project is because even as far back as 2005 when Desert Xpress popped up, traffic to Vegas was getting pretty bad. A lot the business Vegas does comes from southern California. People drive out there multiple times a year. I honestly think its an attractive option and something people will want to try. I think it would be really nice leaving the car behind on a trip like that and not having to dread the 3-6 hour drive back.
Ivanpah Solar is not a zero emissions power plant. It requires natural gas ro run in mornings and the fact that it fries any wildlife (birds, insects, etc), it is not eco-green nor is it something to celebrate as it increases area temps by 10+ degrees by means of being a heat island effect source. So bad example.
Example of what?
Really? Seriously? Do I have to wait for this one too? Because I have been waiting for the other since decades past ...and I have not seen any train is coming soon yet..... And, now we are going for Las Vegas and DOUBLE it all down.....LOL
They do WANT to start it this year and WANT to get it done before 2028...
All the Trash from Los Angeles will board this train to raise Hell in Vegas. I fear the Metrorail and I fear this more.
Just wait 'til the first train lets out for a Raiders game..