I'm only about 57 seconds in, but I am grateful that you're calling out people overusing the word narcissist to label folks that they've never even met. Mental health conditions are serious things that only actual professionals can diagnose. Labelling folks as actual mental health condiitons just 'cuz they're terrible people isn't helpful. ❤
I've never forgotten something Dr Ramani said on her channel. She said if someone is awful to you but their nice to everybody else, that still doesn't make them a nice person.
Have you looked up Scapegoat Abuse & checked the family dynamic that allows one person to be singled out & abused whilst they treat other people in contrast with empathy, respect or kindness? Just because they all behave differently to others and the family including extended family joins in or is wilfully ignorant of the abuse, it doesn’t mean that the dominant one in the family that sets the narrative isn’t a narcissist, although as you say, abuse doesn’t always extend as far as the label of being from a narcissist.
You're absolutely right about personality disorders. They're WAY more rare than online discussions suggest.I've talked to therapist acquaintances about that, and there are tons of folks out there that others think have a personality disorder, but are just unkind or have some other problem.
I think people throw around terms like narcissistic too much too quickly. Like you say some people are just not nice people and sadly people like us who are autistic are vulnerable to be taken in by horrible people and not realise it until it's too late I've been friends with and loved people who were nasty people but they weren't a narcissist I think it's loosing its meaning as a word
I hate that I have to carry around the misdiagnosies of Bipolar and BPD. Even now I have to explain more times than I’m happy with, that they never felt like they fit me, I actually have ADHD and Autism. It’s so unfortunate that personality disorders come with such negative stigma but it’s worse, I think, for those of us who were misdiagnosed. Constantly feeling the need to justify yourself to medical professionals is exhausting.
I absolutely agree! The stigma shouldn’t exist in the first place, but there’s a special type of frustration that comes with experiencing stigmatisation for things you don’t even experience 😭
I think narcissistic personality disorder is a huge trend right now due to all these psychologists online like dr ramani talking about it. I think narcissistic personality disorder is very rare. I think it is way more common with just being a crappy person.
Good video, Dana. I agree some people are toxic people. It doesn't mean they have a personality disorder or a mental illness. It sadly become a trend in recent years to throw out cluster b personality disorders to easily. As we know, some people are just toxic sadly. Even though cluster b personality disorders cause people to do toxic thing's, but saying that, I've met people without personality disorders that are shitty people. Does that makes sense? Xxxx
The biggest lesson I learnt this year is that humans mostly don’t behave on a cause and effect basis, they’re so unpredictable and reactions are not always proportionate to the cause. I used to try and identify patterns/reasons I’d ‘caused’ a person to react a certain way, like if I’d not smiled enough or worn the right clothes, but it was never about what I had or hadn’t done! It’s been kinda freeing to realise that the way other people behave is not my fault☺️
100%. My partner and I have been friends/partners since 2008. I’ve always had an issue with inappropriate laughter (sometimes I laugh when I’m horrified or at irony), and it’s only this year that they’ve misinterpreted some of my laughter as being directed AT them. Likewise, they can be exactly the same, and sometimes I can reciprocate and be enthusiastic, and sometimes I’m tired and can’t be bothered to engage with them. It’s got nothing to do with them.
@ that’s so nice that you’ve both learnt that together! I’ve also struggled with inappropriate laughter that’s incongruous to the situation. Communication is so important, now I only keep friends that I trust will tell me if I upset them, will tell me what they’re feeling and that I can report what I’m feeling to as well☺️
Humans act on feelings and impulse mostly (whether they are aware of it or not), which are often not rational or proportional, therefore human behaviour can not be accurately predicted or boiled down to some kind of formula or pattern. Autistic people really struggle with this concept, because unpredictability and a lack of rhyme, reason, logic etc. is scary to them. Humans are shitty sometimes, we are primal creatures at the end of the day and our prefrontal cortex, moral compass, sense of fairness/reason doesn’t always keep our selfish animalistic sides in check. That’s why judgment, prejudice, bullying racism and wars exist. And they will ALWAYS exist.
Like the word "woke", narcissist has been coopted by the wider general public and now it has too many meanings. Generally the abusiveness of this world is out of self interest, weather thats enjoyment, fanatical or labour gain, etc
Personality disorders are a traumagenic survival mechanism that are pervasive to their entire personality and all relationships, not just how someone treats one kid or their partner, though specific people can definitely be their primary punching bag. NPD mostly means there is a high degree of self-centric thinking. In terms of being outright malicious behavior and lacking a moral compass (or having one that is decidedly their own), those characteristics often actually fall under the category of ASPD. Lots of “narc abuse” is actually ASPD. And I agree, a lot of it is also NOT from a personality disorder at all. For example, someone might only be horrible to their spouse and otherwise have normal relationships and thinking patterns. Humanity is complex and varied. In any case, a diagnosis might explain someone’s behavior, but it doesn’t excuse it or change how you were treated or the impact it had on you.
It’s true that the narcissist label gets thrown around way too much. And not every abusive person has a personality disorder. However, your argument that they only did it to you and no one else and therefore they can’t be narcissists is not necessarily true. Narcissists are quite often the pillar of their community and everyone thinks they are great. The only person they abuse are specific family members, and no one else. Either way, a fantastic book to read about domestic abuse is Why Did He Do That by Lundy Bancroft.
I absolutely agree with this. They may have been nice to everyone else because it would benefit them/they would face consequences if they didn’t, whereas they felt with Dana they could be shitty with her without facing consequence, which is shitty and common in narcissists - suck up to some and spit down on others.
People like to throw around narcissism a lot, like you say since it makes it easier to process and make sense of how horrible some people are. But from what I’ve heard from people working in the field narcissism is no longer seen as a personality disorder since it is so common of an occurrence in society.
A narcissist is a person who makes it all about themselves you've been nothing but trouble (to me) since the day you were born. Or a covert narcissist will complain that no one ever listens to them and whine all the time and never change. Takes no responsibility either way.
Something like NPD is more complex and understandable from the inside than people make out, theres different ways its expressed, it can change over time, and anyone with it as complex as anyone else even if they appear shallow. I just think ultimately if we find someone difficult to be around we should just leave it at "theyre an asshole" and leave it at that. This is difficult for me to do but I'm working on it and so far its been positive. I know i have made assumptions and called people out on things that i had no personal understanding of, that caused me harm in various ways. I sometimes thought i was acting empathetically by taking a side against someone, but in fact i was being reactive to the emotions and traumatic memories that person had provoked in me whether they had done anything or not. It is better to live and let live, leave, avoid, confide in others, but ofcourse if someone is dangerous that is a different story. Empathy is thoughtful and slow, it takes consideration and effort, and its easy to mistake our strong emotions, feelings of relating, projections and lack of boundaries for empathy. Many people are not emotionally literate, so they dont know this and dont know how, but that does not mean they dont care, or that they intend harm, or that they understand the harm they cause. Sometimes people know they are being harmful, they just dont really understand others as individuals like themselves, but even these kinds of people can care for others. The people that scare me most are those that do, and its best to stay clear. It's no different for most people, we can never see full reality, we see everything through our own foggy lens no matter how logical and fair we think we are. The thing thays most damaging is that we barely notice this in ourselves, and we dont notice that others are the same. When emotions are overwhelming its hard to think that maybe we are reacting to what someone reminds us of, rather than what they actually are. I'm not meaning we should let people hurt others and we're all so delusional so we're all invalid! The way i see it there are 3 components, you and your lens, other individuals and their lens, and the world where actions take place which are informed by our individual lens, like a stage with actors but we all have different leaflets that tell us what the play is about. So things can get so messy, and sometimes my version of events is very different than yours, and i can guarantee no one has the whole truth. We build up all these defense mechanisms to protect us, sometimes our brains leave out things, theyre too painful to touch so we think of them as trivial, or we hardly remember them. The mind plays tricks on us all the time, and emotions are kind of a trip haha. Narcissistic people are just like everyone else, but they feel shame very intensely and their minds rearrange events and memories in a way that protects them. I think we are all guilty of that, it would be impossible not to be, and as i am coming to terms with it is impossible to have such a crisp and clear view of reality that we can never do anything wrong! The worst things i have ever done have been when i have not been close to reality. It's not an excuse but an explanation, and only individuals themselves can figure that out and adjust themselves, so its better just to find ways to avoid them.. This is why i agree with you Dana about that term 'strong sense of justice'!
This is an enlightened take because people don't have to fit a box to confirm the true nature of their behaviour; it liberates your mind to seeing the truth and acceptance rather than unfairness and victimhood. As humans, we should just strive to be better or at least have good impacts in some ways. So if a person doesn't think along those lines, no matter what their condition, the condition is not an excuse. Personally I am up for a live stream on Christmas day...a poll would be nice and perhaps reminders in your upcoming videos and updates to remember 🙂🥰
Dana I went through school bullying and domestic violence. It was horrible and they were horrible. This was before my diagnosis. I know what you mean. Nice to see you on a saturday🥰
I think it would be cool to watch a live video! But I wouldn’t want to participate 🫣😂 I’m a truck driver so I might be spending Christmas alone in my truck and a live would be nice!
Timely. There are days I don't think about the mean people but this is not one of them. I just figure that among the people who can tell that you're vulnerable, some portion of them will be mean if they feel they can get away with it. Including some very popular and well-liked people.
I think many times, people who would likely meet the diagnostic criteria for NPD are the type of people who don’t think they need clinical help. It does make dealing with narcissists extra extra hard. And I think it’s a really important point that you make that we can have similar, relatable experiences for different reasons. I’ve definitely had the experience of Neurotypical people in my life trying to minimize their discomfort around my autism by generalizing my experience, saying that they go through the same thing because they are an introvert, saying that they go through some of the same things because they have anxiety, etc. Sometimes the tone feels like “therefore, these things you are attributing to your autism aren’t really that serious, and you can stop thinking about them and talking about them.” I think people like to wrap things up with a neat little bow and feel like they don’t have to address them anymore. Some problems in life are not like that, though. I’ve learned again and again that understanding why I am the way I am or why people treat me the way they do is helpful, but it does not make the problem fully go away. It just enhances my capacity to cope with the problems. I think something that you end up expressing in many different ways across many different videos is: there’s a lot of nuance! Human beings are so complex. There is also a lot of beauty to be found in our complexity. I am grateful to be alive. I am grateful to be diagnosed. I am grateful to connect with other neurodivergent people online. Sometimes I dwell on this thought that if I were born in another time period, so many of the rich experiences I’ve had throughout my life would just not be possible.
A lot of people are on the narcissistic spectrum that's why everyone has narcissistic traits. But ofc someone with npd is another story. My ex of 8 years definitely has npd he does literally everything they do. he kept showing more and more traits. And he knows what he's doing as well. A thing abusers do is they're nice to everyone around them so no one believes you if you say something. My ex bought me shoes okay... he offered and really wanted to get me shoes. then tell me he needs the money. So what if i didnt have the money. I didnt even want to buy shoes he insisted on getting me them.
@@DanaAndersenplease keep complaining! We need to get rid of this stigma about cluster B personality, also I love how you touch on this topic and wish more people talk about this ❤️
I'm only about 57 seconds in, but I am grateful that you're calling out people overusing the word narcissist to label folks that they've never even met. Mental health conditions are serious things that only actual professionals can diagnose. Labelling folks as actual mental health condiitons just 'cuz they're terrible people isn't helpful. ❤
I've never forgotten something Dr Ramani said on her channel. She said if someone is awful to you but their nice to everybody else, that still doesn't make them a nice person.
Not someone I would want to be around but I wouldn't view them as awful either.
Have you looked up Scapegoat Abuse & checked the family dynamic that allows one person to be singled out & abused whilst they treat other people in contrast with empathy, respect or kindness?
Just because they all behave differently to others and the family including extended family joins in or is wilfully ignorant of the abuse, it doesn’t mean that the dominant one in the family that sets the narrative isn’t a narcissist, although as you say, abuse doesn’t always extend as far as the label of being from a narcissist.
You're absolutely right about personality disorders. They're WAY more rare than online discussions suggest.I've talked to therapist acquaintances about that, and there are tons of folks out there that others think have a personality disorder, but are just unkind or have some other problem.
people can ALWAYS justify themselves, regardless of how awful they act.
I think people throw around terms like narcissistic too much too quickly.
Like you say some people are just not nice people and sadly people like us who are autistic are vulnerable to be taken in by horrible people and not realise it until it's too late
I've been friends with and loved people who were nasty people but they weren't a narcissist
I think it's loosing its meaning as a word
I hate that I have to carry around the misdiagnosies of Bipolar and BPD. Even now I have to explain more times than I’m happy with, that they never felt like they fit me, I actually have ADHD and Autism. It’s so unfortunate that personality disorders come with such negative stigma but it’s worse, I think, for those of us who were misdiagnosed. Constantly feeling the need to justify yourself to medical professionals is exhausting.
I absolutely agree! The stigma shouldn’t exist in the first place, but there’s a special type of frustration that comes with experiencing stigmatisation for things you don’t even experience 😭
I think narcissistic personality disorder is a huge trend right now due to all these psychologists online like dr ramani talking about it. I think narcissistic personality disorder is very rare. I think it is way more common with just being a crappy person.
Good video, Dana. I agree some people are toxic people. It doesn't mean they have a personality disorder or a mental illness. It sadly become a trend in recent years to throw out cluster b personality disorders to easily. As we know, some people are just toxic sadly. Even though cluster b personality disorders cause people to do toxic thing's, but saying that, I've met people without personality disorders that are shitty people. Does that makes sense? Xxxx
The biggest lesson I learnt this year is that humans mostly don’t behave on a cause and effect basis, they’re so unpredictable and reactions are not always proportionate to the cause. I used to try and identify patterns/reasons I’d ‘caused’ a person to react a certain way, like if I’d not smiled enough or worn the right clothes, but it was never about what I had or hadn’t done! It’s been kinda freeing to realise that the way other people behave is not my fault☺️
100%. My partner and I have been friends/partners since 2008. I’ve always had an issue with inappropriate laughter (sometimes I laugh when I’m horrified or at irony), and it’s only this year that they’ve misinterpreted some of my laughter as being directed AT them. Likewise, they can be exactly the same, and sometimes I can reciprocate and be enthusiastic, and sometimes I’m tired and can’t be bothered to engage with them. It’s got nothing to do with them.
@ that’s so nice that you’ve both learnt that together! I’ve also struggled with inappropriate laughter that’s incongruous to the situation. Communication is so important, now I only keep friends that I trust will tell me if I upset them, will tell me what they’re feeling and that I can report what I’m feeling to as well☺️
Humans act on feelings and impulse mostly (whether they are aware of it or not), which are often not rational or proportional, therefore human behaviour can not be accurately predicted or boiled down to some kind of formula or pattern.
Autistic people really struggle with this concept, because unpredictability and a lack of rhyme, reason, logic etc. is scary to them.
Humans are shitty sometimes, we are primal creatures at the end of the day and our prefrontal cortex, moral compass, sense of fairness/reason doesn’t always keep our selfish animalistic sides in check.
That’s why judgment, prejudice, bullying racism and wars exist. And they will ALWAYS exist.
Like the word "woke", narcissist has been coopted by the wider general public and now it has too many meanings. Generally the abusiveness of this world is out of self interest, weather thats enjoyment, fanatical or labour gain, etc
Good points!
Love the idea of Christmas lives 🎉
This needs to be said more! People love to armchair diagnose others & throw labels they don't fully understand around. 💚
Personality disorders are a traumagenic survival mechanism that are pervasive to their entire personality and all relationships, not just how someone treats one kid or their partner, though specific people can definitely be their primary punching bag. NPD mostly means there is a high degree of self-centric thinking. In terms of being outright malicious behavior and lacking a moral compass (or having one that is decidedly their own), those characteristics often actually fall under the category of ASPD. Lots of “narc abuse” is actually ASPD. And I agree, a lot of it is also NOT from a personality disorder at all.
For example, someone might only be horrible to their spouse and otherwise have normal relationships and thinking patterns. Humanity is complex and varied.
In any case, a diagnosis might explain someone’s behavior, but it doesn’t excuse it or change how you were treated or the impact it had on you.
Great video! And I love your Young Ones shirt!! 😁
It’s true that the narcissist label gets thrown around way too much. And not every abusive person has a personality disorder. However, your argument that they only did it to you and no one else and therefore they can’t be narcissists is not necessarily true. Narcissists are quite often the pillar of their community and everyone thinks they are great. The only person they abuse are specific family members, and no one else.
Either way, a fantastic book to read about domestic abuse is Why Did He Do That by Lundy Bancroft.
I absolutely agree with this. They may have been nice to everyone else because it would benefit them/they would face consequences if they didn’t, whereas they felt with Dana they could be shitty with her without facing consequence, which is shitty and common in narcissists - suck up to some and spit down on others.
People like to throw around narcissism a lot, like you say since it makes it easier to process and make sense of how horrible some people are. But from what I’ve heard from people working in the field narcissism is no longer seen as a personality disorder since it is so common of an occurrence in society.
A narcissist is a person who makes it all about themselves you've been nothing but trouble (to me) since the day you were born. Or a covert narcissist will complain that no one ever listens to them and whine all the time and never change. Takes no responsibility either way.
Something like NPD is more complex and understandable from the inside than people make out, theres different ways its expressed, it can change over time, and anyone with it as complex as anyone else even if they appear shallow. I just think ultimately if we find someone difficult to be around we should just leave it at "theyre an asshole" and leave it at that. This is difficult for me to do but I'm working on it and so far its been positive.
I know i have made assumptions and called people out on things that i had no personal understanding of, that caused me harm in various ways. I sometimes thought i was acting empathetically by taking a side against someone, but in fact i was being reactive to the emotions and traumatic memories that person had provoked in me whether they had done anything or not. It is better to live and let live, leave, avoid, confide in others, but ofcourse if someone is dangerous that is a different story.
Empathy is thoughtful and slow, it takes consideration and effort, and its easy to mistake our strong emotions, feelings of relating, projections and lack of boundaries for empathy. Many people are not emotionally literate, so they dont know this and dont know how, but that does not mean they dont care, or that they intend harm, or that they understand the harm they cause.
Sometimes people know they are being harmful, they just dont really understand others as individuals like themselves, but even these kinds of people can care for others. The people that scare me most are those that do, and its best to stay clear.
It's no different for most people, we can never see full reality, we see everything through our own foggy lens no matter how logical and fair we think we are. The thing thays most damaging is that we barely notice this in ourselves, and we dont notice that others are the same. When emotions are overwhelming its hard to think that maybe we are reacting to what someone reminds us of, rather than what they actually are.
I'm not meaning we should let people hurt others and we're all so delusional so we're all invalid! The way i see it there are 3 components, you and your lens, other individuals and their lens, and the world where actions take place which are informed by our individual lens, like a stage with actors but we all have different leaflets that tell us what the play is about. So things can get so messy, and sometimes my version of events is very different than yours, and i can guarantee no one has the whole truth.
We build up all these defense mechanisms to protect us, sometimes our brains leave out things, theyre too painful to touch so we think of them as trivial, or we hardly remember them. The mind plays tricks on us all the time, and emotions are kind of a trip haha. Narcissistic people are just like everyone else, but they feel shame very intensely and their minds rearrange events and memories in a way that protects them. I think we are all guilty of that, it would be impossible not to be, and as i am coming to terms with it is impossible to have such a crisp and clear view of reality that we can never do anything wrong!
The worst things i have ever done have been when i have not been close to reality. It's not an excuse but an explanation, and only individuals themselves can figure that out and adjust themselves, so its better just to find ways to avoid them..
This is why i agree with you Dana about that term 'strong sense of justice'!
"I diagnose you a poopy head"
This is an enlightened take because people don't have to fit a box to confirm the true nature of their behaviour; it liberates your mind to seeing the truth and acceptance rather than unfairness and victimhood. As humans, we should just strive to be better or at least have good impacts in some ways. So if a person doesn't think along those lines, no matter what their condition, the condition is not an excuse. Personally I am up for a live stream on Christmas day...a poll would be nice and perhaps reminders in your upcoming videos and updates to remember 🙂🥰
Label or not, evil is evil
Dana I went through school bullying and domestic violence. It was horrible and they were horrible. This was before my diagnosis. I know what you mean. Nice to see you on a saturday🥰
They are dumb bells.
youre so real
Rights
I think it would be cool to watch a live video! But I wouldn’t want to participate 🫣😂 I’m a truck driver so I might be spending Christmas alone in my truck and a live would be nice!
Timely. There are days I don't think about the mean people but this is not one of them.
I just figure that among the people who can tell that you're vulnerable, some portion of them will be mean if they feel they can get away with it. Including some very popular and well-liked people.
I think many times, people who would likely meet the diagnostic criteria for NPD are the type of people who don’t think they need clinical help. It does make dealing with narcissists extra extra hard.
And I think it’s a really important point that you make that we can have similar, relatable experiences for different reasons. I’ve definitely had the experience of Neurotypical people in my life trying to minimize their discomfort around my autism by generalizing my experience, saying that they go through the same thing because they are an introvert, saying that they go through some of the same things because they have anxiety, etc.
Sometimes the tone feels like “therefore, these things you are attributing to your autism aren’t really that serious, and you can stop thinking about them and talking about them.” I think people like to wrap things up with a neat little bow and feel like they don’t have to address them anymore. Some problems in life are not like that, though. I’ve learned again and again that understanding why I am the way I am or why people treat me the way they do is helpful, but it does not make the problem fully go away. It just enhances my capacity to cope with the problems.
I think something that you end up expressing in many different ways across many different videos is: there’s a lot of nuance! Human beings are so complex. There is also a lot of beauty to be found in our complexity. I am grateful to be alive. I am grateful to be diagnosed. I am grateful to connect with other neurodivergent people online. Sometimes I dwell on this thought that if I were born in another time period, so many of the rich experiences I’ve had throughout my life would just not be possible.
But yeah based take and cool things I'm jealous of in the background as always
i agree
A lot of people are on the narcissistic spectrum that's why everyone has narcissistic traits. But ofc someone with npd is another story.
My ex of 8 years definitely has npd he does literally everything they do. he kept showing more and more traits. And he knows what he's doing as well.
A thing abusers do is they're nice to everyone around them so no one believes you if you say something.
My ex bought me shoes okay... he offered and really wanted to get me shoes. then tell me he needs the money. So what if i didnt have the money. I didnt even want to buy shoes he insisted on getting me them.
mainly because everything you are describing sounds like the check list of red flags for emotional /domestic abuse usually related to npd
Just stop complaining so much!!!!!!
If you don't like what Dana does then stop watching. The rest of us enjoy her videos.
Keep the engagement coming and I’ll keep the complaining up 💕
@@DanaAndersenplease keep complaining! We need to get rid of this stigma about cluster B personality, also I love how you touch on this topic and wish more people talk about this ❤️