PSA TV2112 21" Subwoofer : RETURNED
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- I had high hopes for this subwoofer, but It wasn't meant to be for The Rafcave Home Theater.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for watching! 😃
💵 Support this channel 💵
💥Join the VIP Membership for special access!💥
/ @therafcave
$ - Super Chat Me - $
In the comments during my Live Streams - $ 💵 $
Tip Me-
www.streamlabs...
Venmo Support-
venmo.com/ther...
Paypal Support-
www.paypal.me/...
Get your Rafcave Merch from the Spring Store -
/ @therafcave
teespring.com/...
Donations are for upgrades to the channel such as 4K media, new game content for streams, or any other equipment upgrades for more unboxing videos!
DISCLAIMER: I am a Amazon and an Abunda affiliate which means that if you click on one of the product links In the video decription, I’ll receive a small commission at no extra cost to you.
www.amazon.com...
www.shopabunda...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you so much for the support fans! 😊
Follow me on my other pages below guys!
Twitter Page - / therafcave
Instagram Page - / therafcave
Facebook Page - / therafcave
Discord Page - Become a VIP member for access!
Contact Email - therafcave@gmail.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#PSATV2112 #Subwoofer #PSA
I find It utterly rediculous that a $2400 subwoofer set at the same 1/4 gain, sub out level matched @ -9, and phase delay balanced as a so called Inferior subwoofer like Klipsch. Bottoms out and not the Klipsch. Feel free to comment your wisdom below. 🔻🔻🔻
You should have asked for setup help before you sent that back. Gain dials can't be compared across different subwoofer models. It's nothing an output control relative to input signal, not a volume control. It definitely sounds like you were clipping the signal. I've to hear about the "phase balancing" you did too.
You have provided absolutely zero data to support your claims. No measurements, no frequency sweeps, no gain settings, no voltage measurements, nothing. What your saying just simply does not line up with anyone else’s experience or measurements with these subs.
If you like the Klipsch sound than if you are looking to upgrade for an epic experience for movies get a pair of Seaton F18's.
I have a 35x45 room and its incredible let alone a mid size room like your in.
Also the 50-80hz range I'm talking about Seaton is far better than The Klipsch 15 I had three R115SW and no comparison
Something seems wrong.
@@lok777 Yeah the sub was wrong.
Is this a joke? I was expecting to learn why PSA wasn't good and you provided absolutely 0 (zero) explanation. No REW sweeps? Try mini DSP? Try moving the sub? Room acoustics? Sorry, but seems to most likely be user error. I'm fine with you making the claim but you have to show why or else everyone will look at you and your context as a joke.
Sounds like you have a setting wrong. The TV21 is leagues above any Klipsch sub
Totally agree
Yup, something was wrong with that installation and setup, and that's coming from a Klipsch fan.
Naa, I'll keep the Klipsch, sounds amazing. 🙂
I am still trying to figure out if he was comparing the one sub vs the 5 Klipsch. It is a mess.
You say the sub can't handle loud bass without any details of how you set it up. This review equates to saying a Ferrari F430 can't go fast as you climb back into your Toyota Camry. It's a shame because it devalues every other review you've ever done.
This video is unfortunate. Sounds like a setup error, or maybe the sub was defective. The bad parts about this video, are the user did not reach out to PSA to troubleshoot, and then is bashing PSA, saying they couldn't hang with the RAFcave. Not a good way to go about things at all, when I would venture a guess, it wasn't setup properly. You can not bottom this sub out, period. You can however clip the signal, if you don't know what you're doing. Disappointed all around with this video. At least post solid data, if you're going to trash talk a very well regarded company.
This video is a big disrespect to PSA! Did you set it up correctly? Do you have REW Sweeps? Can you show any graphs? Any house curves for that matter?
Can you show the REW sweeps from the TV2112 ? this driver cannot bottom out by design, it sounds like you need multiple subs to deal with your room acoustics and tried to make up for it by EQ and clipped the signal chain.
You said it, the knowledge and skills aren't there yet. To make unwarranted statements and then a video condemning this sub. This sub is a Monster and should never be compared to a Klipsch sub, utterly disrespectful to PSA.
@@ChikiVareniki Just wish this video had any objective data to show it had a problem vs bad setup which could be easily fixed or at least understand the issue, even if 1 sub was the problem and he cant afford to buy a 2nd. At least this would show the importance of multi subs...
Lmao replacing PSA with garbage Klipsch subs. Amateur hour at its finest. Placement is everything.
Thanks for returning this sub by the way, I reached to Tom and bought it. This sub is a MONSTER and puts out extremely loud and clean bass. It’s a welcome addition to my other two.
Just so you know I bought that sub B-Stock so you have a third hand sub.
@@TheRafcave imagine being this much of a douchebag trying to make someone feel bad about their purchase by calling it "third hand".
You're a joke.
@@TheRafcave you say that as if you believe having a second or third hand sub is a bad thing. If so, why did you buy it in the first place? Second, if buying the sub third hand increases the likelihood that something is wrong with it, doesn’t that hold true for the one you originally purchased? Which would mean there was an internal defect of some kind and not indicative of the 2112’s capabilities, would you not agree?
@@firstcavtanker I purchased a second hand Item because the owner of the company recommended It. Secondly he assured me that It was Impossible to "bottom out" his subs. Also I was offered no alternative sub to upgrade to. Therefore I pursued a return.
@@TheRafcave yes...except it sounds like the owner knows what he is talking about, while you do not. Do you understand the actual definition of "bottoming out" in relation to drivers? You clearly do not. Because if you knew anything about the pro B&C drivers used in this subwoofer, you would also know how silly that comment is.
You heard an undesirable sound, would be better. I have no doubt that is the case. And it is clear to multiple people in the comments that the reason for whatever unpleasantness you heard, falls on the user for improper setup...and not the subwoofer. Even the way you describe it in your pinned comment shows your bizarre ideas of setup are "off"
I bought your beloved box store klipsch sub for fun, just so I could compare it to MY tv2112...
It is beyond comical you think that tiny thing is better 🤣 it can't even hang with the tv2112.
You did a major disservice to the company with your piss poor comments
I'll take this video seriously when you compare 5 PSA subs against all the Klipsch.
Yeah....No, sorry, you are replacing the PSA's with 2 SPL-150's? ok then lol
Something isn’t right here at all lol either Klipsch paid you a lot of money to say this or you didn’t configure something right. My guess is the latter. There’s no way a Klipsch sub can touch a PSA sub, I’m not a PSA fanboy but I am very familiar with their output levels. I’m HSU owner myself and they mop the floor of the Klipsch subs and PSA is next level from HSU. You need to figure out what’s wrong with your room, settings etc, or maybe your sub was defective.
I did not see any info on your gain setup regarding your receiver/prepro and the TV2112.
It sounds like there may have been some setup issues that could have been fixed or attempted. You may have actually tried some fixes but you never said so in the video.
I totally agree with you, PSA subs are actually pretty incredible and blow away Klipsch and SVS subs. Tom is the V in SVS and really knows his stuff and the video you made wasn't necessary. You really need to get your subs dialed and you've entered into the Pro market with this sub.I haven't anything about using a Mini-DSP, room curves or anything for that matter. All that comes into play, when trying to get your sub dialed in correctly.
My friend owns two of the TV42 Ipal and his room is 20X17X10 and the room sounds amazing. We've watched heavy bass and low end bass movies, such as Aquaman the subs never bottomed out and never any chuffing.
You needed to tweak you subs and not let the Receiver do all the work and that's a major issue. Before you make a video, eviscerating a product, you should really know how to calibrate your sub/s properly first. You've made a grave mistake sending back this sub, no way a Klipsch sub will outperform that PSA Beast.
JTR subs are along the same lines of quality and before you buy them, make sure you understand how to calibrate a sub. You'll be missing out on amazing experience, without that knowledge.
I also have to wonder how you are running all those subs with the 7705? It has 2 sub preouts and you are running 5 subs so how are the preouts to subs configured?
Also did you rerun Audyssey with the TV2112? If so how are all 5 of your subs configured could have a profound effect on sub performance.
I also see you are getting a Minidsp for your subs.....finally. Should have done that before sending the TV2112 back to be honest.
@@m.s.5313 I can't agree with your more, again, the right tools and the knowledge is power. It looks like the sub was just throw into the mix and dumped where you had space in your room. Before you give advice to other Home Theater enthusiast, make sure you actually know what you're talking about. There are people who will believe you and miss out on buying a PSA sub, or a JTR sub.
You should of found someone who knows how to dial in a sub and what to use and do. Then if you're still not happy with the PSA sub, then by no means send it back. Don't make a video criticizing the sub, when the sub isn't even set up correctly.
I own 4 of these PSA 21" subs and there absolutely amazing and Hit Extremely Hard. Home Theater to me is about never giving up and figuring out what the issue is and working it out. It's too bad you sent them back, PSA is a serious Sub and Speaker Company.
Can you provide the details on setup or how you decided where to put the sub in your room? Maybe the listening position is in a null? You could have taken this opportunity to teach people about sub placement and setup instead of giving up and sending it back.
Something seems off here... the PSA sub in question should be leagues above any of the Klipsch. Very bizarre. Could it have been a faulty power amp module and/or limiter section in the electronics? Owner of an s3600i here - one of the older dual opposing 18" models and it is effortless, beyond more than enough for my room which is larger than yours, and never hit any limits.
Hahahahahahahahaha 😂, improper set up = signal clipping.
You absolutely wrong about that. Lol. Grow up man.
@@TheRafcave Please make a video on how you integrated the sub. Go through your entire signal chain. Show REW sweeps on the subs only then full range to see the levels. I want in depth information on how loud you listen. What the sub trim was in the AVR. What was the gain on the amp. What AVR do you have? How much you boosted after room correction etc.
It’s impossible to bottom that subwoofer out by design. It’s easy to clip the signal and cause what you have.
This guy doesn't know what he's doing at all and is giving bad advice.
@@burningsti Yeah, there's no way that sub bottomed out, this video is garage.
@@ChikiVareniki I know it isn’t. It’s signal clipping . I’m so sick of the amateur hour youtubers. They influence so many and they for the most part are clueless and spreading misinformation. 95% of issues are from improper set up.
This has to be obviously an operator error issue. I’m a klipsch guy all the way except when it comes to subs. What was your process for finding the best place for the PSA sub? And one giant sub vs 5 other subs isn’t really a fair comparison of the PSA’s performance. Multiple subs will almost always outshine a single. Excluding the monsters at Funk Audio of course.
I’m not completely sure about your room dimensions but just from an initial look of your current placement your subs may very well be fighting each other. You may also be losing output especially if your near field setup isn’t properly time aligned. Is near field really necessary if you’re also using butt kickers? Load your subs in the front corners instead of so far out into the room, get accurate measurements using REW and then compare to your current setup. You’ll be surprised on what you’ve been missing just because of poor placement. Also try using the room simulator in REW to determine the best seating and sub positions in your room to avoid nulls in your room.
Psa's are all junk
I didn’t watch the whole video he couldn’t possibly really have clearly said he was comparing this one 21 inch sub to 5x15 inch subs did he? That would be simply ridiculous and stupid at best. Hopefully that’s not the case.
You can not compare 1 sub to 5 subs spaced out through out your room just because it is bigger. Whatever placement you chose for the psa you placed it where there was a standing wave null in your seating position
^^^^^^ This
exactly what im thinking, i had the same issue as my room is nearly square. i have two PSA v3611's and had to move them all over the place until i finally got them dialed in. and when i did, there is no expression about what you experience.
Plus the peak output capability of the five subs is obviously far higher and I suspect this was a major factor in the findings. This really is a meaningless comparison.
@@Opinions4Free1 absolutely. He had 2.5 times the cone area with the Klipsch subs.
never would have expected that a vented 21" sub could disappoint, damn. a buddy of mine had a vented 15" psa (forget which model), and that thing pounded. interesting..
I find it interesting that it was so bad but no mention of calling Tom or anybody at PSA for any setup help. Why would anybody go through that & not have at least someone double check there setup before you return it? LOL Sounds like he was positioning himself the entire time to return it & boast on the inferior Klipsch subs. He might have been able to make a point with some REW sweeps showing poor performance but I bet he doesn’t do sweeps or intentional left them out since it would show he is full of it. Maybe Klipsch didn’t pay him, that could be truthful but that doesn’t mean he didn’t get the idea on his own to kiss their arse in hopes of some type of kickback of future purchases. Telling people their 15” is better than the TV21 is making an overly huge statement for the Klipsch that while it would be nice is not believable to anybody that knows anything about subs!!! LOL
User error
It's because this dude doesn't know what he's doing.
That looks like a good speaker for a rock concert!
😄
So let me get this straight...a 400 watt, 15" box store subwoofer with a frequency response down to only 18hz(klipsch exaggerate and it's likely 18hz in room extension), gave you "deep bass extension" that a 1900 watt, 21" professional dedicated ID subwoofer, with an in room frequency down to 10hz, could not? 🤔 your klipsch ARE low quality compared to any of the notable ID brands. You clearly had some major setup and/or room acoustic issues with all those other subs in there. Just the fact you talk about a driver "bottoming out" that is physically incapable of such a thing, shows your inexperience/ignorance. You likely experienced clipping, which is your fault with setup and not the subwoofers. And you clearly aren't accustomed to deep bass below the 18z capabilities of the klipsch and have a preference bias for loud/distorted bass in the 20 to 30hz region.
It's fine to like what u like. But to trash a subwoofer leagues above your klipsch with phrases like "bottoming out", "flapping" and other nonsense like that, does a disservice to anyone reading, the company and most importantly, your credibility. GTFOH lol
My ears don't lie pal. Piss off.
He's full of crap, and/or(probably both) doesn't know what he is doing.
Could it be that you places the sub in a bad position? You say you have multiple current Klipsch subs - you could be just lucky in that your subs are proving an even bass response across your listening positions. However when you tried the single PSA sub, it was exciting nulls, causing you to crank it beyond it's necessary volume to compensate? I dunno... just seems strange.
A clueless user whining about gear due to user error. Gotta love RUclips
Lol. Another useless comment on RUclips
Sounds to me like you had something setup wrong. Did you troubleshoot with PSA? I have two TV2112s and they are far better in output and clarity than the SVS or Klipsch subs I've had in the past.
I ran unik-1, mini dsp, Audyssy, and spl the output and DB levels. This sub can't handle loud bass without bottoming out. Shame.
@@TheRafcave post graphs to prove it. Details on your signal chain. This is a hilarious statement.
Wow, lots of neg comments. but i believe you. Even the guy from spare change said the same thing, that this sub could not handle the really low frequencies, he even said, if you hv a large room, DO NOT set the setting to large on this thing cause the sound esp at ref level was terrible, he said even if you hv a large room keep the setting on the back to medium.... Pretty much the sub was tapping out. i would prefer Rythmiks ported FA18 a proven winner for home theater over this thing. thanks for the vid.
Thank you, your one of the only ones who believe what I'm saying. 👍🏾
everyone wants this thing to sound awesome. it it just doesn't. Shame Lee did all the REW sweeps and measurements and this sub was about to blow if pushed anymore and couldn't keep up with the hard-hitting movie clips like Day after tomorrow intro scene. esp on the large setting on the back. . keep up with the cool vids man...
😉
There's no way this is legit.
💯 legit and It sucked to hear It.
Something's not right here. PSA are the best subs I've ever owned. I wonder if he contacted Tom to see what the problem was? In my honest opinion, Klipsch is a serious downgrade.
Sorry to hear the PSA 21" didn't work out for you. I reviewed the S3611 a few years ago (dual opposing 18's) but since they were sealed, no chuffing. Absolute beast of a sub though. Gotta get what works for your setup. Do you run a miniDSP with your multiple subs?
I'm going to Mike. I'll give It another go. 🤞🏽 Thanks. 🙂
Fwiw I ordered two PSA V1512s in September 2020 to replace my Klipsch R115sw whose amp died. TBH I had to get a mini dsphd to really dial them in before I was happy, not sure if it is a PSA thing or an imperfect room thing.
Youthman helped me with my purchase decision with the PSA S3611. I like the Klipsch SPL-150, but the performance doesn't come close to the 3611. Zero chuff, and mine rolls off at 8hz in room.
It really sounds like your PSA subwoofer was not in the correct placement (in a null area) or wasn't calibrated correctly. (REW is a great tool) It's pretty hard to bottom out a TV2112.
Nevertheless, good luck with those Klipsch SPL-150s.
LOL. I mean it's the internet guys. Not everyone who posts is an expert (even if they claim to be). Just looking at his center channel placement has me questioning his commitment to proper setup. My room is twice the size of his easy and only has two V1811s, which are incredibly articulate, authoritative and seemingly limitless in their headroom.
Returning PSA and getting Klipsch subs is a Joke.
A joke was the PSA sub In my Home Theater.
I found the forum explaining this guy returned the subwoofer with packing peanuts inside 😂. The sub was cleaned out, tested and sold. Current guy is happy with this sub. This Raf guy is a joke and scam.
Lol. He has low standards.
What kind of drugs are you on? It saddens me seeing this bloody goat has 20k something subscribers on RUclips!
It’s like saying I have 5 Corollas and they are better than 1 Aventador!!! I love Klipsch heritage line but they are generation behind some of these ID brands in terms of parts and engineering of a subwoofer! Grow up!
Hmmm I have dual TV3612’s that shake my house in my 30x16x8 basement. Race scene in Ready Player One is killer and Godzilla: KOTM sounds amazing from beginning to end and I’m still learning this stuff and I haven’t dialed it in using a mini DSP.
I think you set something up wrong or dialed something in wrong.
Dewiz dive into that mini and learn how to use it and REW. Both of those combined is like the hand of God giving you complete control of your subs. Night and day difference.
@@cjt74 is this compatible with Yamaha RX-A8A receivers?
My TV 2112 is just outstanding and far exceeds anything in it's price range. I get much different bass response depending on where it is in the room and finally settled in the far back corner where it just goes crazy during marvel movies etc. It makes all my other speakers sound way bigger than they are most of the time, disappearing with effortless bass ...and then just wakes up when needed making everybody look at each other. When I say effortless I mean that you don't hear the sub working and it barely moves... and it disappears and just makes all your other speakers sound way bigger.
You trying to compare this monster to ANY Klipsch Sub is a joke IMHO... did you say you were comparing this one sub to five subs?
If you got a second tv2112 you could even out your response in the room. I remember telling you I put mine in the back corner where it disappeared and you asked me why I wouldn't put it up front where you could see it. I told you how it corner loaded back there and the base response was way better and you didn't seem to understand me.
The big giant moments where huge base hits are jaw-droppingly crazy with my TV 2112 and I'm sorry you weren't able to experience that for yourself.
I'm not judging or anything but I'm guessing you had it set up wrong. This subwoofer by itself is amazing. Did you even try to tighten up the small to large room correction knob? I had to put mine at about halfway before it tightened up.
Try just running one of your beloved Klipsch in the same spot that the PSA was at and tell us how it sounds.
I'm sorry man but you don't seem like you know what you're talking about you didn't include any relevant information to help anybody understand what your actual problem was.
I was trying to talk to Tom a few weeks ago and I'm guessing you might be the reason he seemed a bit frustrated. 😂
How is that piece of junk doing now?
@@TrannyFluids They are both fantastic. Thanks for asking. Just watched Top Gun Maverick in 4K UHD in the whole room was electric... some of the biggest bass I've heard in my room.
PSA TV2112 is best in class imho. Huge and articulate B&C driver. Rythmik Makes some nice subs too btw.
@@snauspockets9924 you should put that thing in the garbage
Did you rerun your AVR room calibration after hooking up the TV2112?
Ofcourse 🤷🏽♂️
@@TheRafcave Did you try turning off Room Correction to see if it was RC was applying too much EQ down low? Or take any measurements with REW showing the pre and post RC response? My guess is the ULF region below 20hz is being over corrected due to lack of room gain from where it's placed. Your Klipsch subs don't dig as deep and 5 of them placed around the room likely are providing a much smoother overall response that requires little EQ correction. This is why I preach multiple subs on the forums all the time. One super sub poorly placed with excessive EQ correction down low can issues like this.
@@joemeyers1016 Actually I would shut off Dynamic EQ...RC is fine. I have his pre-pro and before that I owned all receivers (Mostly Marantz). Ever since I went Pre-Pro, SVS, miniDSP and REW, I stopped using Dynamic EQ. Just not needed since I do my own room curve.. Turning it on does not really mess with anything like he experienced, but it does increase the bass a lot (and the surrounds and the rear surrounds). Seriously, people HAVE to get a UMIK and REW to see what is going on. I am having a hard time understanding why he has his subs out like that. Unless you did the work and REW is saying to put them there (which I highly doubt) them bad boys would be corner loaded.
All you have to do is a SUB sweep with REW then move your sub 3 inches then do another then you really see the importance of placement.
What was the trouble shooting like to fix the problem? Was the tech support at Psa helpful in trying to fix the bottoming out issue? I was thinking that these guys would be my next upgrade.
They said It was Impossible to bottom out. Well I did. That was the extend of their help. Returned. 👎🏽😖
@@TheRafcave again disappointed to hear this.
@@bomt697 Believe me, I was too. 🤷🏽♂️
Klipsch is your fanboy brand, for some odd reason. Anything to justify keeping that name in your room.
No reason to mess up a good thing.
Lol klipsch. This guy is a joke. Please no one take this seriously
Lol, spending three times the amount for a dissappointing subwoofer. Yeah great value. 👌🏾
@@TheRafcave I mean go with what makes u happy, but I don't think there is anyone aside from you that thinks a properly set up system with klipsch is anywhere close to a properly set up psa. The more likely scenario is that you simply didn't set you HT up properly. As is evident from the rest of the comments or anyone that has had experience with both.
Either way, go with what u think is best. Glad u saved money. Maybe try some Daytons next lol jk
You know I used a UMIK-1 and a Mini DSP to calibrated the PSA? It just never sounded right. 🤷🏽♂️ Also, I'm not a joke. 😒
dude has to work for Klipsch
Nope. Just a fan of them.
@@TheRafcave don't know how to tune a sub it seems. PSA over Klipsch any day
Naa. Never bottomed out my Klipsch.
@@TheRafcave which means your tuning abilities are shite.
@@chrisg5712 Naa
Why do you keep facing the wall when you are talking ?
That's a weird question. And the first.
@@TheRafcave sorry I just thought it odd that the majority of the video you spent speaking to the side wall of your theater Instead of talking to the camera 🤷♂️
@@MSRWorkshop Sorry 🤷🏽♂️
Idk, maybe it was faulty. I had two Kreisel DXD 12012 duo along with one psa s3000i, and it was awesome. So much that now I use my dxd12012 duo in another room for 2 channel music and bought another bstock S3000i to match my other s3000i. In fact, I reached out to Tom over a possibility of my older s3000i having a bad amp because it plays much lower than the current one, and he is taking a look at it now. He will take care of you if you reach out. That's what I call customer service excellence.
Tom wouldn't work with me for a replacement or even an upgrade exchange!
Hmmm, it did sound kinda flappy and fart like. I wonder if there was something wrong with it, or if your settings were somehow not optimal?
@@steadychaosproductions3376 Flappy farts. The most disgusting sound a sub could make. I've tuned the settings with a umik 1, rew & mini DSP 2x4. Couldn't save It. It was an open box, and sadly the owner wouldn't exchange It. 🤷🏾♂️
This is just a weird outcome. Sorry, but this is the best sub in the world at its price. Either user error or a bad unit.
Perhaps a bad unit? It was a B-Stock with no exchange option. 🤷🏽♂️
I was watching this guys HT tour until he mentioned PSA so I stopped and went to watch this video. I came to vent as he either clipped it or put it in a spot that nulled his MLP. No need, and anyone that comes to watch this and reads, please ignore, you are not getting much better than PSA, there were problems here. I went as far as to email Tom and tell him I am sorry he has to deal with customers like this. Very unfortunate and I am not even an advanced user :(
I have literally never read, watched , or heard anything bad about PSA for a reason.
BS. Any good business creator of a product would absolutely help the consumer correct Issues with the product. I received no help. Which Is why I gladly returned It.
@@TheRafcave I am not a kid brotha, not going rounds with you, and I am also not going to degrade you in any way like some others have this is not the AVSforum. It is quite simply this was either clipped out, or placed wrong and nulled out in the MLP. There is not many other explanations and I am not a fan boy, I do though have a V1812 and I am watching Tron Legacy and it has hit so low in a few spots my wife that never does asked me to turn down the bass, thank you for turning me onto that part for a demo btw.
.
I am telling you one man, to another that you have a very decent setup (better front soundstage and the same projector), and I know you can do better than the subs that you have and be even more excited than you are with your Klipsch. I would even be happy to get on the phone with you and talk through some placement ideas in that space, but I would need more information to do so. I would love you to give PSA another shot, but if burned there, Rhythmic is also pretty amazing and also hand assembled in the US. Just asking you to think that perhaps there was more going on here the co-founder of SVS so you know, is not designing subs that are chuffing or not bringing the noise as mine can literally shake my entire second floor. My wife tells me when she is getting on a call so I do not make it boom everywhere, yeah, I need better room isolation :)
Where were you when I needed you man. I did try multiple placements, and used the Umik-1 and mini dsp. It just never could keep up. 😒🤷🏽♂️
@@TheRafcave I hear you man, I know we have both hit roadblocks, we all do. I was going to drop my email here if you want to talk, but instead of getting spammed to damnation doing that. Check out a buddy of mines channel, drool over the fact they get Krix speakers/subs there, and join his discord channel. I am Eric-Poke there and you are welcome to send me a DM and we can talk at length if you would like my friend. There are also many folks much more knowledgeable than I am on that server that love to help, many of whom have built out their rooms from scratch which is straight bonkers to me. Stay safe man, if you join though I would love more info on that power conditioner and surge protection :)
1 PSA vs. 5 Klipsch.... of course he wouldn't like the output. Multi-sub system is way better than just one.
Specs don't mean much to performance In an Individual room.
@HomesliceDrummer I don't got by mathematics. I go by performance. And the PSA Underperformed big time.
@HomesliceDrummer I get you man. On paper It's supposed to smash. I calibrated it with Umik-1 and REW forward and back. I was sold a used sub recommended by the owner. And not once was I offered a solution by him. Chalk It up to It Is what It Is. 🤷🏽♂️
Im going for the Jtr Subs......but they keep going up in price 😭
Keep saving there worth it
I’m not a huge fan of PSA or any other brand of commercial subs. I’ve never had any of them. However I’ve built a lot of diy subs. I know for sure that 21” beast would destroy and klipsch 15. I feel you had no clue what you are doing. Or that you regret spending that kind of money so you had to think of a reason to send it back. Buyers remorse.
Lol, naa. I set it up properly with a umik-1 and mini dsp. The thing poops bass. Disgusting sound. No regrets. I'll enjoy my 8 Klipsch subs thanks.
Let’s see your REW data? I bet Tom has a side to this story as well.
Dual SVS SB3Ks will eat those SPL-150 alive not to mention SVS PB3Ks and above. I would look elsewhere besides Klipsch if you don't a least try SVS.
Not sure if you’re done with PSA but I think you’d enjoy the S3612 which are dual opposing 18 inch woofers. I’d imagine they’d would be similar to your current Klipsch subs. Look forward to your next home theater endeavor.
Almost went for that. But I'll stick to my Klipsch guns. 😊👍🏽
This is unfortunate.
I have a PSA S1512 mated to Klipsch RF5s that I bought in '03 in my music room that sounds fantastic.
I have two Rythmik Audio FV18's in my theater room, which are also awesome.
Surprised about your experience.
I appreciate your nice response. I was sad about the outcome of my experience. I'm happy yours is better.
@@TheRafcave No worries, if everyone experienced sound the same way there'd only be one company making speakers.
I've had several psa products and I think the best performers were when they switched to ice power amps and still used the eminence drivers. That being said one sub will never keep up with five.
👍🏽
The sub does not bottom out, the port is too small and makes noise at high levels.
Lol, dude was clipping the signal, stick with the react videos, they suit you better.
Naa bro, I prefer better product.
LOL can you make it any more obvious klipsch has your sponsored ?
I wish Klipsch sponsored me. Can you put In a good word?
Man, that is very surprising. I’ve had a number of subs recently. Started with pair of Klipsch SPLs and then moved on to HSU, Dayton, SVS, and Stereo Integrity. Preferred all of them over the Klipsch for home theater. Can’t believe the PSA couldn’t stack up. You’ll definitely like the SPLs though. Nice warm deep bass.
PSA can stack up, there's no way a Klipsch sub can beat a PSA sub. It's all about the knowledge and understanding how to set up a sub properly. if not, they'll sound and perform horribly.
The PSA can definitely stack up. This guy is talking out his ass
@@ChikiVareniki Yea, I imagine that's the case. I know I spent a ton of time and effort working on the LFE in my room which was well worth it. But even without a sub dialed in, I just don't get how the PSA could not be an easy winner in this situation. Its got to be able out perform the existing Klipsch subs in output and extension. So no idea what's going on, but even if not happy I dont think the move is going back to Klipsch. Theres a whole other level of LFE out there to be had.
PSA - Power To Summon Authorities :)
This is the classic thing of people who have been so used too lower quality subs that are loud and have that exaggerated 30 hz base when you hear quality bass it throws you off that being said I have never heard the new psa subs only the older ones I'm also not a fan of the type of woofer they are using in there new line those woofers are usually used in pro audio not hometheater they are not a long throw woofer and cant be set up the same you should look into dual Hsu-vtf15h mk2 or monolith 15s they crush those klipsch spl150s I have owned them all still have the Hsu-vtf15h mk2s and am currently going to be getting rythmik f18s this is not a knock on those old klipsch subs they were the shit when they came out and they lasted you 13 years is crazy your whole system is ridiculous very impressive but you should try some of these other brands my brother has the rythmik fv15hp subs and they are fucking incredible but if your happy that's all that counts
My Klipsch are not lower quality. 😌
@@TheRafcave that came off wrong I mean comparative other subs I didn't mean they are low quality bye any means I actually liked the spl150s very much as I am also a klipsch fan but they were lacking that low low where you just feel it in your stomach that all the other subs I mentioned have that super low plus that explosive punch you in your chest but you have one of the best hometheaters one RUclips
@@dayonerecoverdub3626 I appreciate It. I've just stayed away from the comment section here, It's too toxic. 🤷🏽♂️. Take It easy. 👍🏽
@@TheRafcave yeah didn't mean to come off that way I went on a three year or more quest for incredible bass so I went through alot of subs and had alot of time with many different brands from svs,hsu,monoliths from monoprice and klipsch rythmik the spl150s are good subs but a theater on that level deserves great lol love the channel keep up the great videos 👍
@@dayonerecoverdub3626 Thanks for being cool day one. 💯👊🏾
Here's my answer from the other video I asked you about the 21.
So it's opposite the Seaton F18 is absolutely incredible for movies and deep down goes below 9hz it's the 50-80hz range that I'm just not satisfied with where REL is better.
Awesome video saved me the return $$$ and argument with the wife about how big it would be
How much is klipsch paying you for those lies??? You’re the only person in the world to complain about PSA yet alone to compare to Klipsch and say it’s better than PSA. Sorry but I don’t believe a word you’re saying.
I was sold crap. Klipsch Isn't. Simple.
Go with what makes you happy. I absolutely love SVS and want those so bad, but I need to upgrade my reciever first and possibly move soon? We'll see.
You should check out the Martin Logan dynamo1600x. I love mine. I would love to compare mine to the klpsch some day
Hi Rafcave I cant wait for your SPL-150SW subwoofers to come in and for you to do a reaction video on them sir!! I am just super happy that I am able to help you!!
Would you give the psa tv42 ipal a try?
I would.
@@TheRafcave imagine having 6 of em that's 12 drivers lol
@@TheRafcave what's your guestamate opinion on the tv42 ipal subs if you had 2 of them u think u would have the same problem?
@@BIGBASSSAMA_4 I think that would be plenty of deep bass with no issues.
This is very disappointing to hear. How would you upgrade from HSU vtf-3 mk5?
I upgraded from dual vtf 15 mk2 to PSA and there is no comparison ..the HSU subs are good but the PSA are just in another league...no question about it
Raf, You may want to try one of those GSB Martry DIY subs or go with the Deep Sea Sound MARIANA 18SD. The Klipsch 15 may give a nice slam but if you are looking for deep, you make not be happy.
What.. Bass has come to an end.. 😃.
I think what you were finding is that the box was not tuned low enough. That box is way too small for that sub. Your talking about a box that is about waist height. Try the kraken 21" with a better cabinet that you will probably have to build yourself.
Thank you for honesty 👍🏼👊🏼 good demo/video. UK
Wow I really appreciate your comment. Thank you for watching! 👋🏽🙂
@@TheRafcave You're welcome..... UK
I say replace everything with Bose ;)
Hi Rafcave im shocked here ,you say that psa sub sucks in your cave,and you ordred some more klipsch subs,correct me but those klipsch wont even come close to the psa subs output,and btw why do you put your center on the floor,not a good center placement🤥
Hi John, yep the PSA bottomed out at high volumes, even after multiple calibration attempts with umik-1 and REW with mini DSP 2x4. It was bought B-Stock so maybe It was defective and the owner assured me it's Impossible to bottom out, and never offered a replacement sub 🤷🏽♂️. I've never bottomed out any of my Klipsch subs so It was quite a shock to hear. So now yes I have 8 Klipsch subs In my theater all calibrated and not one have I experienced bottoming out with them. Also about my center speaker, I don't have a acoustic screen and my screen takes up my entire wall so It Is what It Is. 👍🏽😄
Thinking the s3612 I think it is wouldve been better at those scenes u mentioned but am shocked this 1 bottomed out so easily. Better to run a sealed at that size for no port noise. Appreciate the honesty and hope the Klipsch give you what you want. I'm a RBH Sound fan, 4 SV-1212PR is bass nirvana! There expensive but worth it, they also have some more affordable subs. Great bass. Thinking about a Ascendo SMSG32 for infrasonic bass extention. End of the day it's your theater and you the one that should be happy with it 100%.
Thanks Michael. I have no doubts about more Klipsch subs In the Rafcave. 😊💯😊👍🏽
@@TheRafcave we all got our loves n if it ain't broke as the saying goes. Look forward 2 that klipsch unboxing n review. Never tried them but I know you and many love them so I just know you gonna have the biggest smile once you dual those babies in!👍 I'm pretty picky about bass as I'm sure you can tell from my post earlier so I'm totally feeling ya on your love for klipsch! Love the rbh but dame maybe I overlooked klipsch 4 something as silly as that copper woofers🤔😖 yo I can't help but picture u like rocky in 4 with him training in the snow when u was getting that psa sub out the rafcave🤣😲🤣👍
That sucks can't wait to see your no subwoofers in your future videos.
You want bass videos? Just ask.
@@TheRafcave Thought I just did.
@@ILLUSIONZ224vh4ip If owning Klipsch subs mean no subwoofers. Then I guess you won't see any. 🤷🏽♂️
Man you returned that 21 huh. that's crazy well I hope you find one you like man. Klipsch 15s should make you happy.
I love Klipsch man. 12 years and strong. Cant wait. :)
@@TheRafcave Same here I have Reference Premiere 5.2.4 and I love it 😀
Sounds like you just had a bad experience. Bummed for ya cuz that sub should've been an absolute monster! If you like your klipsch, keep rocking out. If you want something similar to them but with the ability to reach down into the high teens with absolute authority, check out the HSU 15" VTF3 MK5 for $800 each. I had them before my current dual svs pb3000 setup and I can verify they are the top performing subs under 1k. Amazing tactile feedback and has the thump you actually feel in your chest. Definitely more so then my pb3000 subs.
Thanks Beau. I now have 5 Klipsch 15" subs that satisfy my bass cravings. 😊👍🏽👍🏽
It seems like you chose the wrong sub for the purpose. The PSA TV21 is more of mid tuned sub in a relatively small enclosure. Plus he compares it to 4 separate subs, so of course there will be more output and headroom there.
My one sub doesn't bottom out like this much larger one does.
I'm confused I thought you got your subs fixed? But one of the comments u said you have 2 klipsch 150 on the way. One more question what screen are you using now
Fixed the old ones, just for giggles I wanted more output. And the cost savings plus newer designed subs won't dissapoint.
@@TheRafcave Nice but what screen are you using now? Is it still the alr screen?
ruclips.net/video/nAnarXt7EWw/видео.html
I had a similar experience with their 18". I think the cabinet sizes are too small and the amplifiers are too small. Your 21 was just a bigger version of the ported 18 I had. Same problems. I kept thinking it was something with my setup, but I tested everything and enlisted other people to help... and it wasn't. I ended up buying JTR RS1s and, while they're more expensive, I never had to worry about them sounding bad. The problem with the JTR RS1s now is he has had TWO price raises since I bought mine and now I think they're over 3,000 and so it's getting hard to recommend it as a value option to people, but I do love them. The lead time is also crazy on them. Enjoy your subs!
@Mr Calvin Richardson In defense of JTR, most other brands have had price raises too, everything is getting more expensive! Some of it is for sure seeking better margins, but also stuff for sure has gone up in price. But yeah, it's not the value it used to be. Now value can be found with some of the DIY stuff. What I think will happen is some of the DIY brands are going to start assembling them too eventually, that's my guess. I think GSG Audio is already doing some of that.
@Mr Calvin Richardson JTR isn't made in China, it's made in-house in USA quite the difference here.
I really like your shirt. Any chance you can print them in different colors, especially now that summer is coming?
Thanks! I believe you can If you check out the store link In the description.👍🏽
Sorry to hear about your disappointment Bruddah Raf... at least we had a "SKOL" of a draft! Keep it SKOL!
💜💯👊🏾
What are you gonna replace it with raf?
I have 2 Klipsch SPL-150's on the way now.
Man gotta have that bass! Stick to what you know with those subs you e already got. That wasn’t a cheap sub so it should handle bass at a sound level.
Awesome raf Klipsch are awesome👍
💯♥️
Yooooooo raf how are u brother great video 👍
All good :)
Helped confirm Rythmik FV18s over PSA , 🙏🏻
This man without question set this thing up wrong. I have had two pairs of PSA subs, including my newest ones with the big 1900w amps. If you set them up wrong, they can seem like they are bottoming out or something isn't right. If you set them up properly, they're basically demolition equipment for your home. This video is such trash it shouldn't be allowed on the internet.
I’m surprised that sub could sound bad even if done intentionally. My impression is this a high sensitivity PA sub that is severely sandbagged up top to a appear smooth down low.
Yeh man, if yer not happy.....send it back 😎
Subscribed
He set the controls of the PSA sub exactly like the settings of the KLIPSCH. That's what fools do in car audio. "I set the gain halfway". Unless you're using DSP, REW, an oscilloscope or a Steve Meade DD1. There's no way of knowing, what your settings were doing. Amateur hour. 😂
Obviously you didn't know I already set the EQ differently from the Klipsch with the UMIK-1 and REW software. Not to mention I have the the Mini DSP 2x4. 🤦🏾
You obviously did NOT bother to read setup procedure. You don't seem particularly bright when it comes to all this technical business. It sounds like a clear case of clipping which comes from way too high of a volume setting. Do you even own an spl meter? Or do you just "wing it"? I read about your tragic story in a different sub video a few days ago. Well, tragic for the place you bought it because now they have a perfectly good but "used" sub for no reason other than an ignorant customer who doesn't or can't read.
Lol, you have no sense of proper sounding bass. You must just "accept" garbage bass and enjoy It.
Wow thought those PSA, would do some damage, have you thought about HSU subs, I was gonna get one, but ran into a klipsch r115sw on the used market, replaced the amp now I'm in love with it. But heard a lot of good things about HSU subs, especially Sparechange gave his 👍on it. So see if you can reach out to HSU for a review, Thanks RAF
That PSA couldn't handle The Rafcave. I heard of HSU. But I love Klipsch and 2 more 15's will cure my bass crave nicely.
OK when you receive them let's see the video, I'll be waiting 👍
@@THEBADGUY56 You bet bud. 👌🏾
The PSA subs are along the range of the JTR subs, they just need to be set up properly. There's no comparison at all, knowledge is power and without it. You tend to believe the item is bad or performs poorly, it was a mistake to send back that PSA. You should of bought another one, learn how to get them to work together and BOOM!! You've just entered into the Big League.
Sounds like you completely didn't set it up right. That PSA would walk all over a Klipsch sub. Klipsch can't even stand with the cheapest PSA sub. Maybe learn how to take REW measurements and learn how to dial in your room.
Possibly the most pointless review I’ve ever seen on RUclips.. no merit
Your welcome
When can I come over? 🤯 🔊
📦🔊x 7 🥳
@@TheRafcave yeah gonna be crazy 😜 🙃
Ipals are better but sucks that that version didn't work for u
SVS subs baby.
I believe this is why Tom refuses to share any performance numbers on his subs. The driver he uses has very poor xmax which good xmax is what is required down low. The thing is his subs have great value for what they are. He should simply inform people what they are buying that way everything is understood upfront and there are no disappointments or hard feelings afterwards. His subs should be marketed as high performance mid bass. I was going to buy one of these but after reading the forums and finding how the measurements are not provided due to this excuse and that excuse I decided to pass and look elsewhere because I'm looking for high performance low frequency bass.
Just my opinion.
Thanks Mike.
Then you haven't been reading the right forums then, more then enough people on avs psa forum that can provide you with frequency response charts measuring well to 10hz. I've only got one TV1812 and get flat response to 9 hz with over 100-110 db. So sry but bs calling psa only midbass subs while they are more then capable doing ULF. Shame that you are listening to this rafcave clown that has no clue how to set it up and blamed the sub for poor performance.
@@peterwu9346 then have PSA back it up with measurement data. Why is that so hard?
That sub didn't even look like a home theater sub tbh. It looked more like the woofers they use at concerts. Concert subs are designed to be loud and throw low frequencies far but not to go nearly as deep as home theater subs. Giving that sub a high-pass filter at around 22 Hz would have probably helped it behave the way those types of subs are optimally designed to behave. Giving the sub such a filter would have most likely fixed the "bottoming out" issue while giving it more headroom, but it would have prevented it from reaching the sub-sonic frequencies that most home theater subs are designed to reach.
Lots of air, that's it. 🤷🏽♂️
They are pro sub drivers. Very expensive ones from Italy. I believe he gets the low end through a combination of porting and dsp programming.
@@drh3b PSA subs are Pro subs and novices shouldn't buy them, until they have the proper tools in their Home Theater Arsenal, to set them up properly.
The sub in question is most definitely a HT sub. Also it can not bottom out by design period. It most likely was clipping the signal. Go research PSA, before making assumptions.
@@HYPURRDBLNKL That's actually a good point. I don't know much, but I'm guessing that the possibility exists that the "bottoming out" sound came from the signal being too strong on the input or something like that, rather than the sub itself distorting.
why not try SVS ?
Can someone take this Childs toys away, he clearly doesn't know how to use them. Holy shit.
First I'd like to see someone try, I'm 6'3 265lbs. Second, It Is a child's toy. That's why It's out of my home theater lol. 😆
@@TheRafcave now this is a cool comeback. What I do not get why you did not contact PSA support - Tom was super quick answering my questions and I bet the sub was defective.
@@boriskey7841 I did have conversations with Tom about the issues with the Sub and he said he's never had a bottomed out sub. I even asked If I could upgrade to the next higher sub and pay the difference but he wasn't having It. 🤷🏾♂️
@@TheRafcave I see, my PSA sub arrives soon, I hope I will have a better experience but so far Tom was great. But I agree with you - people love to shit on Klipsch, but they make great products for a good price. New line of RP subs is awesome and you can catch a deal on RP1600SW for $900! no one can beat this and now with 5 year warranty