SVS PB16 vs PSA S3611 - Subwoofer Slug Fest - Compression Measurements using REW.
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Today we put the SVS PB16 Ultra vs PSA S3611 in a Subwoofer Showdown to see which has the most output before compression using REW.
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Power Sound Audio PSA S3611 - www.powersound...
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Keep in mind that the REW by defaults sends a -12dB signal. Also i hope the tones were also set to 0db.
Great stuff, i really like how you learn more and more, and you can get more technical!
PB-16 Ultra being a Ported design, I'm sure there is a -12 to as much as -24dB (or so) Subsonic Filter you are hitting below it's Tuning Frequency. You can see if you put all the Plugs in and set it to Sealed if it doesn't roll off on the lower Frequencies. Then you'll know if it turns the Subsonic Filter off when set to Sealed.
Very helpful video!
when I go to upgrade my subs I was seriously thinking about SVS but now I think ill have to go with PSA
As I will share in a future video, it really comes down to what is important to you. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. I feel both are incredible subs.
@@Youthman I watched all the vids seen the data but I don't think i ever hear you say what the trade off is. Still deciding myself bc of it lol
I shared these points in various videos
S3611
No app
Plain design
Massive power 20Hz and below
Go a of clean output
No port chuffing due to being sealed
PB16
Nicer finish
App is convenient
Built in DSP
Variable port tuning
Tons of clean output
Digs deep but not as deep as the S3611
I would like a more thumpier sub. I like the PB4000 its what i have but the APP is so nice i just domt want to get any other sub.
@@probmxjona the pb4000 wasnt thumpy enough? What did you end up getting for a new sub?
Great video Youthman, I must commend you on how comprehensive and detailed your videos are. Keep up the great work and I can't wait to see your views on the actual listening comparison between the two subs.
Thanks Richard. I want people to be able to follow along step by step and reproduce it. I hate watching videos when they assume you know what they are talking about lol
The most important question so far is what were your settings for each sub during testing?
Watching the video I thought to myself, "what are the gain/volume knobs at for each sub? What are your sub trim levels in your avr? What is your room size control knob set at?"
So many questions. It's tuff to get a good takeaway from this video with so much information missing. None the less it was a great video.
Also, if no one has mentioned it, try getting your db's (y-axis) to be in increments of 5db. It tells a lot more since for every 6db of difference you would need 1-2 more subs of the other to match that result.
For example, the 20db diff at 10hz means you would need 4-7 MORE PB16's to match 1 s3611 (due to the 3db-6db added per sub). Same goes for the 20-30hz where the PB16 shines, it would take many s3611's to match.
Good video, just need some small details that's all. Keep doing your thing, we all look forward to your final thoughts!
Marantz SR8012 Sub Trim - 0dB
S3611
Gain - 1 notch above 1/2
Room Size - Middle of the Dial
PB16 - Gain was at -10dB
Audyssey turned off
So with this new info, what is your assessment.
Before you started testing did you level match them equally using an SPL meter? REW has a built in spl meter you can use.
I think that was the point to my original comment. Each sub's gain knob works differently but it's important that they are giving out the same spl when doing the pink/white noise so it's a fair comparison.
Also as someone mentioned if you're going to test for extension, you should run the PB16 in extended mode I think it is to really know how low it goes. Same for the S3611, by turning the room size control knob to large you will be decreasing the roll-off on the low end hence having a higher low-end.
I'm not in favor of one sub over the over. I like that you're comparing these 2 together, just pointing out it should be as equal as possible so you can get a more realistic comparison.
I respect that you're learning as you go and so are your viewers.
Thanks for the tips GEO. You are correct, I’m learning as I go and certainly welcome the thoughts and suggestions from others.
I didn’t not level match the two subs before calibrating as I figured it wouldn’t matter. In future videos, I’ll try that in case it does make a difference. I figured it would just have different volumes on the receiver but would still have the same frequency response.
I wasn’t doing the test for extension. I simply wanted to see how they both compared. If I would have thought about it, I could have done Sealed, Standard and Extended and compared each of those to the S3611.
Now that I know how to test them, it will make it easier to do future tests.
This is a great honest review. I found this very interesting how a ported and a non ported box measures. 👍
Thanks Retro. I do my best. I purchased the PB16’s but have no problem if another product performs better than they do. I’m perfectly ok with that.
Great job! I really appreciate all of the time and work that goes in to your vids. Awesome!
Thank you Mike. I’m glad you are finding value in the content
Once again great job on a highly detailed review. Can I make a request on another video of frequency response after audyssey calibratiion? It would be interesting to see how audyssey equalizes the modes and nulls. I have been researching online wether audyssey applies cuts up top and boosts the nulls but alas, i cannot find specific answers to the question. From analyzing my own before and after room calibration measurements it does seem that audyssey applies some boost. If it does, that would drastically reduce available headroom. Maximum output sweeps post auddessy calibration would be very revealing.
Also audyssey room calibration app shows calibration down to 20hz. I wonder if this is due to the limitations of my own subs and room or this is a universal roll off that audyssey does to all systems. It would not make sense to buy a sub that extends down to 10 hz if my room eq software will roll it off by 20hz anyway.
Again good job to you. Looking forward to seeing more videos of this type of content from you.
Thanks Derek for the suggested video.
Awesome work on the video man! Great tutorial, and very interesting. Easy to follow, and comprehend. I think I need to take a good look at using REW myself.
Thanks Hi-Fi. Everyone that uses REW raves over it and says you really need to use it if you want to have a great bass response especially but there are very few people willing to take the time to show you how to do it. I figure as I’m learning why not sure what I’m learning so that others can benefit from it. And my philosophy is to make sure I show every step so that it can easily be reproduced by somebody else. It frustrates me when I’m watching some type of tutorial and they assume that you already know certain information and if you don’t know that information the tutorial is pointless
Great Job Youthman. I've always been a fan of dual opposed subs for the ultra low extension that was exhibited in this video. But to each their own..
This has been my first experience. Quite impressive sub for sure
Dual opposed has nothing to do with how low it goes. Its 2 18's. Thats why. Dual opposed eliminates box vibration and a lot of room modes.
@@Audfile surface area obviously has alot to do with frequency extension. My subs go down pretty close to 6 HZ because of the maintained pressure inside of the cabinet and the decreased excursion from the subs interacting together.
Audfile, Does that mean that you are not amongst the knowledgeable ones you speak of since you are here? 😉.
I do not claim to know it all or have it all figured out but it sounds like maybe you do.
@@jwrecka231 oh lol. I guess i should delete that now haha. I love this channel.
Good video. To make it easier to see the sweeps change the increments of the sub levels so they are displayed in 5db increments on the left hand side. I can't read what they are now but it looks to be either in 10 or 20db increments. You should always have it be in 5db increments to give the best graph readings.
Thx for the tip
LETS GET READY TO RUMBLEEEEEEE!!!!!!!🤜🏾🤛🏼
Haha
Really enjoyed this video. I've spent many hours in REW. It's very fun to tinker with.
Very interesting...both subs are very capable. Most music/ movies don’t typically go down to single digits in low frequency. I am biased towards the PB-16 because of it’s good looks and other features.🤠Good infor and thanks for posting.
Yes Ian, that’s why I don’t think there can be a “winner”. Really depends on what’s important (Cosmetics, App Control, Finish, Depth, etc).
I really like what I’m hearing from the S3611 but will likely not be selling my PB16’s to buy Dual V3611
You found compression at VERY LOW frequencies. Above 30 hz, the PSA will pull away hardcore.. but it should given larger dual drivers that are more efficient. The SVS has a huge 8 in voice coil that requires a lot of power. Pretty crazy stuff but i love it :)
Interesting. So if I narrow the frequency sweep, you gain output before compression?
Thanks! Great video. Can't wait to watch your review using actual movies and music
Thanks!
Story time: I have 2 PB-16's. Saw your first review, bought my own mic. Followed your steps. I have one sub behind my screen, the other behind my chair. Run REW, find dip at 43Hz. Decide to turn off one sub each time and run levels to increase that null in EQ application in sub. Start process to eliminate null. My tones are only a tad higher than yours. With front turned off, I see same curve. Move to turn off back sub and move to front, its bad quiet. Turns out my front PB-16 will only play for 5 seconds before saying "goodbye". I honestly have no idea in what part my front sub's amp decided to start going into protect, but it will only work for 5 seconds at a time before "goodbye".
Called SVS, turns out they will send me an RMA for the amplifier, and it should be a few screws removed and a couple of wire harness exchanges and it will be fixed. It is a warrantied fix that will only impact me for a week.
I have been tracking down the cause of my loss of bass. Found it I guess? :) Guessing my full range towers up front masked the obvious problem.
The PB-16 in extended mode is only spec'd at 13Hz, the logical drop off below that is an expected drop. The graph on their website shows a flat curve. So it seems that most of these graphs are discovering which sub runs the best in the position in your specific room. No surprises here. Question is the money shot... which do you prefer?
Honestly for me, anything that shines in a frequency that only will remove drywall screws and annoy my family is not what I personally am after, but I reserve the right to destroy anything around me using sound. If I was trying to rattle a car and the entire blocks houses, I would go with the PSA. Afraid the PSA would make it impossible to watch a movie without my house demanding that I refrain or turn it down.
Aside: I HATE that different sound modes exist for playing back music, and do not run or turn down the back sub-woofer (Yamaha receiver). This is dumb.
Could you make two presets on the PB16’s? One for Music and one for Movies?
I could. But without a way to adjust that automatically to "scene" or preset on the receiver it makes the system encumbered. Many times I enter the levels and turn "extra bass = on" and adjust trim to make it sound good. Those settings do seem to be system wide, and not on each preset as well. Not sure how any automation incorporates settings for the options I need as I switch from scene to scene. (music or movie). In the movies, I have to turn bass WAY down, or be destroyed. Still learning if anyone has any input... My reciever is an a3080 Yamaha.
I’m actually referring to the Presets within the PB16 menu, not the receiver. Check out my video here - ruclips.net/video/Ct9N2QiEVvg/видео.html
SVS part came in, swapped amp in 15 minutes, all back to functional. EASY. I followed your advice, used the preset and the EQ. Found out that you CAN adjust for the nulls in a room, but only so much. My graph is far more flat now. The bass went from a kitten at -35dB to full rich bass. No longer turning up my volume LOUD to get the impact I was wanting. Now, the bass seems almost too powerful. Think its me getting used to the sound actually. Measuring the almost in-audible 120-135 dB low Hz frequencies stressed my ears with fatigue that I didn't even know was happening during tests.
My REW graphs went from a spikey curve to much flatter/smoother curve, simply via SVS EQ adjustments.
If you want to see my graphs, or just some pics of before and after, throw me your email or a way to send a file or pic.
There is no reason not to flatten out the 35dB null in your room you have on your graph with 5 minutes of adjustment and the SVS app.
One more thing, at 22:00 yes, you would feel those low frequencies, if they exists. Most movies are cut off at around 20-30hz, very small percentage of the movies have content below 15hz. Most stop at 15, others at 25, but ye.
Go to this thread for more info. www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2763785-ultimate-list-bass-movies-w-frequency-charts.html
Wow, all this is really well done and very helpful. Looking forward to the next ones.
Thank you kindly
perphase u may try procella audio v21 with twin 21 inch subwoofers in one box
Great video, very informative! Thanks for the time you're putting into this!
If you're into numbers then YES running REW will make you happy. I'd rather just listen to a/b tests using films/music that are "demo worthy". Asking people familiar with tech and those NOT. Get unbiased opinions. People not familiar with tech will give a more honest impression I think. Do a test with your kids, wife, best buddies...etc.Their opinions won't be biased towards any brand...
My wife says, “they both sound nice”. Unfortunately that’s not very helpful.
I'm just going to buy both. Thanks for the review
Thad the review was helpful. If you use my affiliate links in the description below, I would be grateful.
Excellent and very informative video as usual , I also used your link to SVS and pulled the trigger on a PB16 Ultra in piano black let the MADNESS continue! LOL
Congrats! I think you will love it. It’s a beast for sure
Yeah I can't wait to get it integrated into the system , unfortunately I was only able to order one ill save up and get the second sometime in January.
It never ends but it’s surely a lot of fun 😀
Alright now we're getting serious! (although seriously if I brought either of these in the house I'd have a kitchen full of broken glass and be a single man again)
Haha nice
Great Video. Thank You!
How is it that you can go to -3 on the pb16 but only -20 on the pb3000, without compression?
What’s up youthman! Are you planning on doing a review on the PSA V3611? I’m looking on buying a pair of these subs but can’t find many reviews online. I value your opinion and would love to get your feedback before I make my purchase.
Can you do this same test on the klipsch R-115sw?
Sure, I don't see why not.
perphas u may try Procella Audio V21 (dual 21 inch subwoofers in a box)
Costing $11,000, for 139 dB SPL @50Hz? You're joking, right? That's no subwoofer, it's a bass bin... :)
in case you didnt know... PS A is owned by *Tom Vodhanel* the 'V' of SVS
Fully aware. Thanks.
Hey, my 8802 also wiped out the audyssey recently. Had to rerun it!
So weird. I was like huh? Lol
looking at this, at your settings and location on the subs, this is how things performs.
but i am pretty sure al woofers are limited by excursion before experience distortion, unless something is rattling inside or box is flexing, room flexing for all i know, think the amp is up to the job.
my thoughts are that with PSA S3611 own settings or some eq to make the same sub bass roloff as SVS, then you should get 20 increase in output at higher frequencies, probably at 20hz and up. because hitting 105db at 10hz require huge excursion.
Drop an octave = 4x the excursion so go up and octave you can play 4 times louder.
looking forward to listening test, have fun and hope you fine many subsonic content in music and movie to experience :)
Thanks
Just bought a pb16 for my new setup. Waiting for it to be delivered. Hope I made the right choice
Congrats on the new sub! The PB16 is a fantastic sub. I think you will be very pleased with its performance. I enjoyed mine for several years until I upgraded to (4) 18’s
Youthman I am super excited. I wanted a sub that was terrific for music to go along with my paradigm premiere speakers but would also be impactful and hit the low frequencies for movies. I watched lots of your videos to help make my decision. Thanks for the help!
How are you enjoying your pb16?
@@TrannyFluids it’s really good. But I have a JTR cap 4000 along with it.
Another great video!! Thanks!! I have a new 5. Klipsch system based on your advice. Next is the 5.1 can't wait to see the results. Have to ask if the peq on the svs doesn't smooth out the bass (nulls) then what does it do? Very new, Thanks!
Congrats on the new Klipsch purchase. What speakers did you get? The PEQ does allow for some room correction but if you have very little bass, you can’t make more of what you don’t have.
Geez, at what point does the PSA sub even BEGIN to fall off? I'd love to see a graph from 1Hz. I only somewhat recently heard about the PSA brand, but good lord the results from their equipment is downright nasty sometimes!
Same for JTR. Both easily hit single digits.
For subsonic frequency, PSA sub is winning. Nice graphical technical video.👍
Thanks
What’s up youthman! I love your videos! In your opinion, should I go with 1 SVS PB 16 or 2 PB 3000? I have a 19 x 16 theater room but I’m on a budget.
If I had that choice I would go with dual PB-3000s. Although a single PB16 will have more super low frequency output, the pair of PB3000s will outmatch at 30 Hz and above for more chest punch slam. But more importantly, dual subs will smooth out the bass for all listening locations in your room.
Being recently retired and a bass-aholic, I didn't want to spend a lot for that muffler. Over the course of about a year I bought (4) 15" Velodyne Subwoofers (mint - used) from both Craigslist and eBay. The total cost of all 4 was around $1,000. Setting up all four took a little time but I'm in heaven with both music and movies. Of course I drool over the newer subs but I'm really happy with what I have. By the way, always buy 2 subwoofers whenever possible. It really makes a huge difference and fills all the nulls in most rooms. drive.google.com/open?id=1Vhdeo_hV058YPiaWf5yUVkTm2zulaBTr
Thanks Glen. I began my home theater journey with a Velodyne CT-100 back when I worked for Circuit City (tells you how long ago that was). I then upgraded to a Velodyne F1500, then a single Velodyne HGS15, then Dual HGS15's, then a single Klipsch RSW-15, then eventually 4 Klipsch RSW-15's and currently Dual SVS PB16's. Each one of those steps was an upgrade from the previous.
Is that a garage or a basement? Man cave for sure! Bet that bass hits hard like a truck off the hard surfaces.
(2) Velodyne CT-150's and (2) Velodyne DLS-5000R's
It's my basement. Concrete floor and cinder block walls means solid bass with very little room noise when the bass hits hard. My chair moves a little though (lol).
Awesome video youthman 👍
Thank you Wendell
Nice video! Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the new rp280's (whatever the new name is) and the R115sw. Be cool if you could compare the original rp280's Vs the newer version since it doesn't appear that any one has yet.
Thanks. I don’t know if there is a major difference between the RP-280F and the RP-8000 (which is the non-Atmos) version
@@Youthman kinda my thoughts too.
Nice video as always.when come the video on the klipsch r-115 subwoofer youthman?
I’m in the process of upgrading my two 1TB hard drives to two 4TB drives. Should be shooting more videos tomorrow. The R-115SW should be coming later this week
UH OH! Here it is! Been waiting on this one (patiently mind you :) ) ! And away we go!
Yes you have been VERY patient. It took me 4 days to finish shooting it and probably 5hrs of shooting / editing.
What are the settings on the subwoofers to start with?
I’ll have to look when I get home.
Subs in general. Forget about these two beasts. You need a special room and an understanding wife. A home that can take the abuse (shaking). Neighbours...will they hear it? How much of it will they hear? Can you afford a sound treated HT room? Etc.
I moved into a condo a few years ago. Haven't been able to use my SVS Ultra 13 cylinder sub...too powerful...would surly shake the entire building. Get me noise complaints. Etc. SACan't imagine the kind of room/prep needed for 1-2 SVS PB16's. :)
Surprisingly my home is very well insulated so I’ve never had the neighbors complain. No special sound deadening other than acoustic panels. Of course the bass travels throughout the entire inside of the house 😂
@@Youthman lucky you! My Condo has paper thin walls, Windows,... Home theater not possible. I envy you... Keep the videos coming!
Great video I learned a lot. Well dun.
Thanks! Glad you are finding value in the content
The svs relay did not like the -3dB run. Was a bottoming out i have heard befor LoL
Ok I just came across this video. Initially I was impressed with the LF range for the PSA, however, isn't this an APPLES and ORANGES test? One is sealed and the other is ported. Of course there's going to be this sort of disparity. The correct test imo wouldn't been sealed v sealed and ported v ported. Only with that sort of test can we see the true differences between the brands.
Thank you for the review YouthMan! Is the PB16 run in standard or extended mode? Does that flatten the curve from 10-20 hz? Also can't you "EQ" the PB 16 for the dips/acoustics of the room in the subs parameters? Just a few questions... I have a single PB16 (duals soon), and I love it. It fits my needs but like you, I'm OK with my equipment being "outperformed" add long as it meets my tastes.
Thanks Roy. I have the PB16 in Standard. I want to do a test of the PB16 in all three modes to see how that changes. Yes you can use the PEQ I the PB16 but my understanding you cannot fix bulls with a PEQ
Youthman definetely should have ran the in extended mode if you are talking about the sealed subs huge advantage down low. Although there is very little content in movies between 0-15 hz. So the advantage doesn’t really matter to 99% of people. Where the pb has its advantage, is in a range that actually gets used.
I do plan on making a video on the frequency response of the PB16 comparing all three modes. I kept it in Standard mode because you loose output in Extended Mode and comparing a single 15.5” to Dual 18’s, I figured the PB16 would need all the output it had available.
@@Youthman well you were wrong little man
Wouldn’t be the first time I have been wrong. Guess you’ll have to settle for the other 620 videos I have made on the channel.
Damn witch one is the best I’m 90% ready to buy I like the one with the 2 18s just because It might slam harder.
The PSA dig a LOT deeper. If you don’t need a fancy finish or ability to control via an app, you won’t be disappointed I’m the PSA. Tom has a new version the S3612.
Hey love the channel great job...got a question..i have Yamaha 3060 with a 7.2 4 setup it has ypao and manual eq with is great in my opinion..yet I wonder if arc would be better for my small room size..im going to up grade I have made up my mind to stay with A/V down to two choices and u reviewed both..the marantz 8012 or anthem 1120..so in your option which is better arc or audyssey 32..Thanks keep those videos coming
Thanks Joshua. For some reason in my 13’ x 19’ x 10’ room, the Anthem sucked a lot of the lower frequencies out so it wasn’t the same impact that I get from the Marantz SR8012. I’m not much for tweaking a lot of settings and personally didn’t care for having to use my laptop to make changes to ARC. TechnoDad is loving the 720 in his room. Check out his channel.
@@Youthman thanks for the response I checked out techno dads video the other day..interesting about the lower frenquizes..take care
Thanks
Does is make more sence to compare two sealed subs? Just wondering how Sb16ultra will perform
Of course it would but I had PB16’s and was sent an S3611 so I compared what I had available. The SB16 wouldn’t compare
Wonder what the SVS curve would look like with all the ports plugged
Not sure but it pretty much defeats the purpose of having a ported sub if you are going to plug all of the ports. Might as well save $500 and get the SB16
I would stop taking measurements becouse you see a bit of compression just in a small range of Hz.
Maybe when you want to play hard, you don't mind to get more output at around 15Hz or 20Hz, as long as you get higher db at the range of 50/70hz.
Ok first of all thank you for the testing, it is knowledgeable!
But I have some question - you started with -15 on the amp when you tested each sub but you never talked about the settings on the sub it self.
I guess we will have different results according to the volume settings you set in each sub.
More over we do need to take in to consideration the rms differences and according to that set the volume in each sub in order to be equally...
Am I wrong?
Can you elaborate more about the volume setting you set in the subs ?
Thank you!
Keep in mind each sub has a Sub again, it’s not actually a volume knob. I believe the PB16 was set at -10dB and the S3611 was around 1/2 gain on the sub. The only difference I would think it makes is at what volume on the receiver it reaches compression.
Nice video continues like this, you can help me with this question please? I am currently with denon avr 2400h klipsh rp160m and svs pb2000 in your opinion should I buy a preamplifier? or do not I need it? Thanks in advance
Do you mean a prepro or are you referring to an external amplifier? I personally don’t think you would benefit from a preamp in your setup.
I'm sorry could you explain why not? sorry but I understand little of home theatre
To further the showdown, increase the starting frequency to about 20 and run compression, see which sub goes the highest before compression sets in. Then 30 hz, then 40 etc. That is the real db drag race :)
I could run REW tests and scenarios forever but the reality is I have way too much gear to review for that to be practical
Absolutely, the upper frequencies will play much louder because they’re not as demanding. The test that you did only showed compression at 15 hz. Just set your initial starting frequency about 20 and then see how many decibels it takes to notice compression, once you find that then increase it to 30 and then so on and so forth then you get a true representation over the whole frequency range of which sub is capable
Thx For the info.
Really interesting! what kind of smoothing do you use in REW?
Thanks. I’m not sure...whatever default settings were (if any)
I got the dayton mic but got overwhelmed with the 100+ page study guide of settings that i found online. To adjust mic levels in laptop parameters and rew app settings. Have you done all that or just ran it after simple install? This vid inspired me to try it out one more time to see if my soundpanels make a difference, and compare my ge xxl and dayton ultimax subs! Btw thanks for previously recommending the projector screen, just bought some xd fabric!
Congrats on the fabric. I love mine. Was surprised at how durable it is compared to my previous Elite Screen.
With REW, I didn’t do anything with my sound card. Simple install
Youthman if you got no errors, bust be fine. Yeah the guys sent me some samples, because mine is in a well lit living room, and xd just killed the uf, it had such better contrast it was awesome.
No errors
Woohoo! I been waiting for this one!
Thanks and enjoy!
Great video ...i learn more details ... thanks youthman....
Thank you
Sealed enclosures normally tend to be more punchy in the bass. Are these subs both or either one servo controlled?
Neither are servo
I only wish I had room for either one of the monsters let alone 2! I have heard the SVS but the people at RC Willys don't have a clue as to how a sub should be set up much less sound.
Yeah I find that to be the case at Magnolia too.
Very interesting video! Keep up the great work! I'll stick with my PB 13 Ultra's. I love'em!!!
Thanks! Yes I too am very pleased with my Dual PB16’s. I want to hear some JTR in the future too
Rather than turning off audyssey, can you run the room correction on each sub prior to measuring each one? This would show the corrected output capability, and give us a more realistic use case comparison.
Not sure, I was advised to turn Audyssey Off first.
The problem with that is I need to have both subs in the same location for the testing so I can’t connect both subs and run Audyssey for this test
@@Youthman You would have to connect the SVS, run audyssey, then measure. Then replace with the PSA, run audyssey, then measure. A bit time consuming for sure but I think this would give a much more realistic comparison considering every single one of us will be using some form of room correction. You probably wouldn't need to run all 8 positions to speed things up a bit. It would be fantastic if you could find the time! Thank you!
It took 4 days to make that video LOL
@@Youthman wow that took a while! You go above and beyond most people, thank you for what you do. It's very informative.
Cool compare
So which one is better?
PSA. But I have since upgraded even further to JTR.
great compairison...
Thanks
Youthman
Please advise I’m having a hard time on what 2 channelamp to buy still. I have asked before lol but am buying tomorrow.
1st. Aragon 3002 it’s thx ultra 2 certified. Msrp is $2,500.00 and I can buy it at $900.00 it is 10 months old so yes it’s used.
2nd is emotiva XPa-2 it’s new at $999.00.
I feel Aragon is high end and emotiva is not. Klipsch owns Aragon I heard.
I can’t afford a new Aragon but can emotiva. Do I go used still because Aragon makes a lot better product.
Errrrrrr I’m so confused what one I buy with no regrets they are both 300 wpc
Hi Shawn, I’m sorry, I must have missed your previous question. I have always been a fan of used gear as you can typically get way more bang for your buck. Aragon was acquired by Klipsch but now is under Indy Audio Labs www.indyaudiolabs.com/products/. I absolutely love my Acurus A200 (another company owned by Indy Audio Labs). It’s a beast of an amp and very well built. If it were me, and the amp is in excellent working condition, I would have no problem going with the Aragon amp.
@@vikingengca9878 an external amplifier is never a "need" but there are benefits to having one. Even a flagship receiver begins to lose wattage the more speakers you connect the receiver. For example, my Marantz SR8012 is a $3000 receiver. If you watch this section of my review of the SR8012 - ruclips.net/video/7YjOwfLOvYM/видео.html you will see that Marantz claims it is 140wpc but when Audioholics bench tested it, he found it produces 96wpc with 7 channels driven. So add another 4 speakers (11 speakers total) and you are likely down to around 70-80 wpc. My Klipsch LaScalas are 104dB sensitive meaning if you give them 1 watt of power and place a mic 1 meter from it, you should hit 104dB on an SPL Meter. Basically they are SUPER easy to drive and do not require a lot of power to hit reference levels. If you have less efficient speakers (say 89dB), you definitely would benefit from an external amplifier as it takes even more wattage to power them. You have to double the wattage to gain only 3dB in volume. Lastly, some speakers like the Klipsch RF7 Series have low impedance dips down to around 2.5 ohms. During bass heavy scenes, the amplifier is really being taxed. Having an external amplifier will provide you with solid power to each channel. The Parasound Halo A52+ that I reviewed is 180 x 5 and you get a solid 180 watts for all 5 speakers. You will never get that kind of power with any receiver as they simply do not have the space inside the chassis because they have to fit video processing, decoding AND amplification all under one chassis. Hope that helps.
Great job bro.
Thanks!
Hi Youthman, very informative info on the technical side of the 2 subs. I am new to this and i just ordered my PB16 which will arrive next week, i have a PB1000 for a year now and decided to go
for the PB16. I wanted to ask if you are going to buy a sub which of the 2 will you prepare PB16 or S3611 reason i ask is i can audition the PB16 and S3611 and wanted to know which one is best
for movies(65%) and music (35%). As i have mentioned my PB16 is on its way next week and i have 45 days to decide if i am going to be happy with it. Do you think i should audition the S3611
Sorry I ask a lot of questiion but i am really new to this and you are the best info that i can comprehend out of the few i have watched. Thank you.
Hi Joey. Congrats on the PB16 purchase. I believe you will be thoroughly impressed with the upgrade from your PB1000. In my opinion, it’s hard to determine which one is best because they both have different strengths. That is 3611 digs deeper in the lower frequencies, but the PB 16 has more output in those mid frequencies. The PB 16 of course has a nicer finish and is app controlled. The S3611 cost less. So as you can see it really depends on what you’re looking for on which is the best. My advice is to listen to it and see how you like it
I have lots of videos on both the PB16 and the S3611 on my channel
@@Youthman I will be watching it tonight. Thanks
@@Youthman another question youthman my living room/kitchen is 16'x30'x9' high and eventually i will be buying a second sub, which one do you think will give more
"punch/kick to the chest" or gives more pressure (is it the correct word?) since the family loves watching action movies and another topic i wanted to ask is the receiver and
tower. the svs guy was very helpful in giving advise i just want to get all the info i can get before i buy the receiver and towers. thats if you don't mind. Thank you.
just also wanted to ask, base on your chart it looks like the S3611 have a more even output at all prequency when watching movies we like to set the volume where it is not loud but we want to feel the action at the same time. Again please be patient with me as i as a new to this. Thanks
Oh so did that Steven suggest the compression tests before I did the other day LOL??
Not sure. I literally reply to hundreds of comments in a week. It’s incredibly difficult to keep up with who said what
How do they compare in the way they sound?
PSA was a bit tighter, more controlled. Both have ridiculous authority. PSA makes your body shake down to 10Hz
Thanks
Interesting video as always. Little oftopic, but will You do a video about video players? What do You use? Disc player or media player with hdd.
Wish you didn’t take down your other shootout video! Don’t let the man control you!!!
Has nothing to do with anyone controlling me. Take a look at what I posted in the community tab
Youthman awesome! I’m glad to be wrong.
Careful buddy don't want to piss off either manufacturer. lol
I have been in contact with both manufacturers so they have seen the video. They know my desire is to present content that is as non-biased as I can make it. Merely present the facts, data as well as my opinion. The only way I could see a Brand get mad is if I bashed their company or product. If a product or a brand is that bad, I simply will decline to make the video. Both PSA and SVS have been outstanding to work with and have a good relationship with each of them. They both make excellent products.
Looking at just the point at which compression starts to occur doesn't tell the whole story. The ultra low frequencies are the most difficult to reproduce and both subs likely had a LOT more to offer from 30 hz up.
This was my first attempt at measuring compression. Last thing I wanted to do was to bow a speaker.
Someone suggested starting the test at 20Hz or 30Hz
@@Youthman I have a pair of PSA V1811 and although I get some compression below 25 hz when doing compression sweeps, my Umik-1 starts cliipping long before I run out of output above that point.
@@Youthman I would imagine that above 30Hz, both subs would have more output than you would every be able to realistically use. It is the output below 20 hz that is so valuable. Even though there is very little content below 20 hz, it is the most fun and the most difficult for a sub.
Gotcha
Youthman, what FB groups are you apart of? I was looking for a few to join to try and buy products as you mentioned.
I have seen him in facebook.com/groups/hometheaterenthusiasts/ and i really recommend that facebookgroup! :)
HTE (Home Theater Enthusiasts)
HTFE (Home Theater For Everyone
Klipsch Owners
SVS Sub and Speaker Enthusiast Group
Those are the main ones.
I’ve debated on whether to start one for this community.
you do exactly that...@@Youthman
@@Youthman Appreciate it Sir. And that would be a great idea.
Maybe I'll post in the Community Tab to solicit ideas on what we should call the group. Any ideas?
I think you can use the Parametric EQ (up to 3 settings) in the SVS app to try to flatten out some of those dips. Mind giving that a try and letting us know how it worked? Also, are you running with the center port closed?
The photo for the thumbnail was taken awhile back. I was running it with all ports open in Standard mode. With Extended mode (Center port plugged) you should get slightly lower extension but less overall output
What this shows me is that the SVS sub is for those of us who are mainly using it for music, and the PSA sub will be the better one for movies.
Possibly. I'm not sure how often movies have sub 20Hz content. I'm guessing a descent amount. I mainly use my subs for Movies and have been very pleased with the performance of the Dual PB16's. But the S3611 is a beast for sure.
That’s not necessarily accurate. The graph shows the PB 16 ultra having a 9db advantage in the 16-30hz range which is a very noticeable spot for movies. Most content in movies is 20hz and above. Rarely below 15hz, a few seconds at most.
@@jonnybgood2432 yep the below 15hz , where the 3611 is stronger, is maybe 1% of what youll ever hear in a movie, much less any music, which rarely dips below 30 hz or so..ill take the pb series anyday, esp for the app it has...it will change the way you look at subs forever...
Can you mix these 2 in ht setup? :D
Technically yes, but it’s more difficult to mix ported and sealed subs, different sizes and drivers. Probably not the best option.
You owe it to everybody to try a sweet starting at 5 hz. To see how low the PSA goes. Also what was the room size knob turned to and gain on sub?
I owe it to everyone? Really? LOL.
Room Size knob was set to the middle.
I’ll have to look when I get home to see what gain is on the sub.
I actually shot the footage for that test out of curiosity. It dipped immediately below 10Hz like we saw with the PB16 at 20 Hz
Youthman so set the room size to large and run some sweeps. I only set room size to middle or small for music playback. It will have more out put down low when you turn to large / have a better roll off. You have some sweet room gain down low.
The PSA graph is much flatter overall. Some more placement tweaks and dual S3601’s would be killer.
Do you have impressions of movie watching between the subs. I would bet you feel lots of extra weight to the bass with all that low end output. Curious to see impressions from a sit back and enjoy point of view.
Thanks. I wasn’t sure where to put it. I knew my room isn’t small but it’s not large either
Youthman play around with it. It determines how the low end is rolled off. I feel as if the bass is tighter at mid to small. Definitely on large for movies. The way we calibrate with Audyssey is set to middle then turn up to large when done. If you do REW sweeps with it at one position then switch the room size and do the same sweep you can see how it interacts pretty cool stuff and it’s measurable.
Cool I will have to check that out
I feel like your opinion at the end may be slightly biased because you already spent $5000 on the PB 16 ultras. Just putting that out there haha.
Just curious, based on the information in the video, how would your opinion at the end have been different than mine? I don’t
I feel I was very objective with the comparison. My goal is to provide videos that are informative, educational and when I can, entertaining.
The S3611 clearly outperforms the PB16 in those super low frequencies but the PB16 takes the lead in the 18-28Hz. So which one is better? To me, it depends on what is important to you. Then on top of that you have other factors like price, finish, settings and whether or not app control is of value to you. I just don’t see a clear, black and white “winner” between the two.
I can tell you I would be happy to have either of these subs in my theater room.
@@Youthman That's a good way to put it. And that conclusion is sound. And you're right, there are a ton of other variables to consider when choosing a subwoofer. Personally, I would recommend the S3611 because its cheaper, sealed, force canceling, and can get into those single digits. I would say the PB16 is much more beautiful though. But I would always go function over fashion. But if you decide to stick with your PB16s, in your room that would definitely not be a bad decision!
I think the S3611 is an awesome subwoofer and will be a great fit for many. For my room, I don’t have to have a gorgeous looking sub since mine are located behind my screen but I do love how the PB16’s look and sound in my room as well as the features they provide.
If the S3611 would have had better output across the board over the PB16, I would have given a different conclusion at the end of the video. I’m ok stating if another subwoofer outperforms my PB16’s. I have nothing to gain by not speaking the truth.
@@Youthman Oh, by the way, I was over at my girlfriend's Dads house for Thanksgiving and had a long listening session to his $30,000 Martin Logans. He absolutely loves them and has had them for many years and are absolutely obsessed with them. But personally, I was not too impressed myself and would never buy one of those extremely expensive audiophile hi-fi products. That's not to say that he is wrong in any way for loving them, but I think its just that we have different taste in sound and are looking for different things.
Exactly. We all hear differently, have different taste in sound and even aesthetics play a role in what we like.
When is the unboxing of the klipsch rp-500sa
I received 502Ss yesterday.....very solid and heavy. Did not mount or test yet.
Awesome! Congrats!
Those are later this week.