I wanted to like the 18” IPAL version of this sub in my setup, but it simply did not give me the output I was expecting for such a large driver. Online forum reviews are nearly evangelical with their praise for these subs, so I just had to try one for myself. One of my reference scenes is Star Trek’s “Edge of Darkness” when the volcano erupts with Spock inside. There was a lot of mechanical noise and overall sounded stressed. With music (my first passion) I was disappointed with the subs ability to integrate with my mains. I returned the Sub and the vendor indicated it was functioning properly. Shanes observations are overall congruent with mine. I moved on to a Monolith 13 THX which absolutely delivered the goods I was looking for. I am now running three JL Audio Fathoms, and that has finally satisfied the overall balance of slam, articulation and SPL and integration that I have been looking for. Room setup is KEY, and a single subwoofer, even a large one, is not always the best approach. I think with a dual setup, and patience with calibration, this sub could deliver for many people. Looking forward to future iterations as I do believe this company puts out solid customer service and products.
@@therealshanelee I thought it would be a “home run” as well. I think there is a group of people who have not been truly exposed to what amazing articulate clean bass sounds like. This sub IS an upgrade for many, but to the more initiated it falls short in several performance metrics. Thanks for taking the time and subsequent hit to the wallet to review! Always a pleasure.
@@xkaern If you take the time to read my impressions it performed poorly on its own, regardless of driver count or size. I followed up with a remedy by replacing it with a ported 13” driver, which destroyed the PSA. I also have an 10” RSL speedwoofer that also outperformed the 18” with music. If the PSA I sampled performed well, I would have purchased two more for my theater. Does this make sense now? Nowhere in my brief write up was I comparing a single sub to three. It was a brief illustration of my journey to the bass performance I was looking for. JL delivered in the end. If you attempt a go at sarcasm on a public forum you might want to take a cursory view of the content you’re poking fun at, so you can draft an emotionally mature response.
I have two PSA TV1813s and I have never bottomed them out or heard any kind of distortion. They blew away my old PB16s without a sweat. I'm wondering if this is an issue with having a large 21" B&C driver in a small sealed cabinet. The ported TV1813s hit some extreme levels down to 10 Hz, and don't sound stressed at all. Not only that, but the bass sounds very precise. The mid-bass is articulate and violently impactful whiteout being muddy. I have never heard the 21" model, but I'm glad I went with the TV1813s lol.
Imagine for a second, given just one of these gives output of 115db in this room At 6hz, Then take the worst room response ever above 20hz, if you bought 4 of these (cost of one perlisten d215). You would have infinite headroom, probably be 125-130db+ capable from 5-100hz and have a flat response. The subs would be coasting.
Given the performance of the single Rythmik 18" I would be very curious to get your feedback on the Rythmik G25HP Dual Opposed 15" subwoofer as it's in the same price range as the PSA.
Explain how you can have a ridiculously bad frequency response and then give a review on what it’s capable of and what it isn’t? I would genuinely like a explanation why it should be given any validity other than aesthetics for a review.
Its a single sub - what kind of response do you expect it to have? It's Shane's choice NOT to use external EQ in his speaker/sub reviews,it's his channel,he can do it how HE wants to , At least he shows frequency response charts, most YT reviews don't even go to that much effort. Honestly I don't know why anyone would bother posting a PSA product review if the hoards are going to get butthurt over anything except an absolutely glowing review. It's a freakin subwoofer review for God's sake, people are acting like he insulted their child or something
I think you owe it to yourself to set this subwoofer up right. I am not sure why you didn’t EQ. Not many subwoofers are going to sound perfect if you just drop them in the room and don’t even EQ. Looking at your response you can see why you didn’t think this subwoofer sounded as crisp and clear as every PSA owner raves. You have over 20db drop starting at 30hz and up. The bottom end is dominating your response and with the much slower decay of low bass in room it is likely making it sound muddier. If you can’t bring that down with EQ you need to try different positions for that subwoofer in your room. I don’t know anyone who has said the B&C pro driver is “slow” or muddy or whatever word you want to use. Even cheap pro drivers are usually going to sound clean/fast compared to a higher excursion driver and this isn’t a cheap pro driver… I feel like it’s a set up issue when your experience differs so much from the vast majority of PSA owners. That B&C driver has been popular in DIY circles for a long while too. So it’s a known quantity. Also, looking at the measurements, I would bet that perlisten has a lot more aggressive limiter on the bottom end. Yeah, it won’t make a bad noise but you aren’t getting any usable output down at 10-12hz either. The perlisten measured only 90db at 10hz (with 13% distortion) and 95db at 12.5hz. And it’s only at 110db at 25hz. It’s peak output was 123db at 125hz. And the perlisten is ported! www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/perlisten-d215s/conclusion The S2112 is showing 116db in the single digits in your room. I don’t know why you focused so much on that 10hz sine wave in the EoT intro either. It’s a brutal test for any subwoofer. If you want a lot of output at 10hz you are going to need multiple powerful subwoofers. But that EoT 10hz sine wave is not very realistic for real world content. How much content has that type of output at 10hz? It kind of sounds like you might possibly be clipping during that intro, which would explain the noise. I think music would have been a MUCH better test for this subwoofer to judge how clean it is than movies. Take some time to optimize, apply some EQ to bring the low end in line with the mid bass. I bet it will sound a whole lot better then. Here’s a great thorough review of the s2112 where someone took the time to set it up properly. www.avsforum.com/threads/power-sound-audio-s2112-review-say-hello-to-my-little-friend.3206114/
So you think I just drop it in my room and use it that way for months before I give my thoughts. It has a problem that eq won't fix. I even mentioned my thoughts on music. I have a pretty capable music setup as well I'd like to think. I've heard better believe it or not.
@@therealshanelee i didn’t mean any offense. Sorry if my response came off the wrong way. You said at the beginning of the video that you wouldn’t be using any room correction for the demos and you would only be using the controls on the back of the subwoofer to integrate it into your system. I was just basing my comment off that and your in-room response graph showing that 20-25db drop from the 116db peak at 9.8hz to around 95db at 30hz and that large null around 30-50hz. I didn’t know you applied EQ or listened to this subwoofer for months. If you mentioned it in the video I missed it.
@@therealshanelee From what was stated and shown in the video, it doesn't haven a problem eq won't fix, the way you set it up had a problem you didn't try to fix with eq (or placement perhaps). No one who is buying 2k subwoofers just plugs them in and thinks that's how they should be judged with no calibration at all.
@@xkaern it absolutely has a problem eq won’t fix. I’m sure your not blind and deaf. You’ve seen the video. I also have one of the most capable processors out there. You think within four months I haven’t calibrated using said processor? This sub is nothing special sorry to break to you. I’ve had so many better ones. I’m not saying it’s bad it’s just not what it’s hyped up to be.
First, off Shane, I truly appreciate the review. What we look for is your perspective which is supported by your reputation (born from your knowledge, skill, and ability). But in the end, it is we as consumers who need to compare, contrast and assess our situations after weighing the facts and opinions found in our own research and the assessments made by reviewers. In short, we should not be sitting here waiting for Shane to spoon-feed us everything on a platter (mental laziness) instead of doing the work ourselves. And then Argue over the validity of his opinion. IT'S AN OPINION FOR GOD'S SAKE- like a butt- everybody has one and Shane is entitled to his. Thank you Shane for reviewing a sub from a company that other RUclipsrs chose not to review (because Tom doesn't play the RUclipsr Gimme-Game). While I have seen the hype about the S2112M, the sealed subwoofer is not my game. I know there is a lot of interest/buzz about the TV 2112 ported (Standard or iPal). There is the review that Rafcave did and trashed the TV 2112 for a Klipsch sub (unbelievable). The community's beef with Raf's review was that it was not as detailed and conclusive as yours. No graphs, no detailed research just ---"I did not like it, so I sent it back." So thanks Shane for doing the work and giving an honest opinion of the sub. Hopefully, other RUclipsrs will see your review as an example and follow suit with the TV 2112 or other subs from Power Sound Audio--- to ASSIST us in making a decision (not making the decision for us--smh). Keep up the great work Shane!
This video is the gift that just keeps on giving. So much energy towards it. First, thank you for taking time to review the sub. Also, for your time to produce a video and offer your opinion which has been met with much scrutiny. I think it's fair to say PSA has a very robust and loyal fan base. To that end, it is a surprise to me there are not more RUclips reviews on their products. For what it may be worth, I didn't think you offered a terrible review. People can question all day long where you placed it, how you optimized it, did you perform a fair A/B test, etc. Even with facial expressions and reactions, can one really determine from watching a video on a smartphone, tablet, computer, etc. how this sub will sound in their room? You note on all your reviews the demo will sound different in person. I think most expect that and also expect the only true way to know how it will sound is to go and listen in a similar environment or better yet, buy one and try for yourself. I enjoy your content. Mostly because it's about a topic I am passionate about. I also find it entertaining. That said, your videos on speakers/ subwoofers (or anyone else's for that matter) don't persuade me to run out and buy a product. Alternatively, they don't stop me from buying one either. Maybe I would feel differently if there were many video reviews which were all consistent in their opinion, but that's not the case here.
They don't lend out units that's partly why there aren't many reviews. We've spoke about the review here: ruclips.net/user/liveCBaH_TFU60s?feature=share
@@therealshanelee thank you for the follow up. I watched this one recently as well. My point about the lack of reviews on PSA offerings was coming from the context of current or previous owners. Not necessarily from those who tend to provide reviews on a consistent basis. I would think given their fan base, you'd see videos from happy customers. Those are few and far between.
@@mattfowler8775 yes, thank you. I frequent the site often. That aside, there are very few videos here on RUclips for PSA subs. That still seems odd to me
That PSA thread over on AVS has made for some fun reading since this review dropped. I figured it would knowing how defensive Tom and that community can get over there. Tom says he doesn’t care, but clearly he does judging by his many posts on the topic over the last 2 weeks.
I have 2x TV2112 and I think you would have been much happier with the low tuned vented version instead of sealed. I have been very happy. Edge of Tomorrow shakes my house. Large room ,no nueter.
No flapping noises during that movie intro? I get the same flapping sound from the driver with dual TV21 IPAL. My measurement graph looks normal and pretty flat without any EQ so its not room placement issues. Even if I try a test tone at medium volumes (90db) I get flapping at 13-14-15 hz no flapping below that or above that. So weird.
btw everyone that edge of tomorrow beginning scene is 30hz,25hz,20hz,15hz and 10hz ..just incase anyone is wondering what frequencies are there..now you know.
I have ancient Gefco long throw rubber surround woofers in my main speakers. They really crank out the bass within reason and never really break up. They just bottom out with a rattle or pop when they are pushed too hard. I built them probably in the late 70s and they still sound great with Philips dome tweeters and realistic 1.5 dome midrange. I did add a cheap but decent sub and kept upgrading over the years to pick up what the small 8" woofers just can't handle. Radio Shack actually had some decent raw speakers back in the day and those mid-range domes were one of them.
Seriously, you have essentially a 20 dB house curve starting at 10 Hz! And a 13 dB suck out between 25 Hz and 45 Hz (didn't take the time to tune or place properly). And you adjusted this single SEALED sub to the level you had pairs of PORTED subs. What did you expect? I don't have any PSA subs yet...but I'm NOT canceling my TV1813M order.
I have the tv21 ipal and have also experienced some of the port chuffing issues. The best thing about the subwoofer is the midbass slam thats alot of fun. Im strongly considering selling it and going Martin logan balancedforce 212s or some Jtr rs1s. I know you have experience with both. How is the midbass on the martin logan?
For starters you have the amp gain set too high on that S2112. You are compensating for that large dip around 40hz. You are down 20-25db in that area. Noon position on the amp gain is likely going to put that sub +15-20db hot over a standard 75db calibration. Run calibration for the sub and then run the test material back.
@@wahababbasi142 I can appreciate a product requiring time to calibrate and fine tune for a specific installation. However, if you take a look at the comments in this review, Shane is not the only person who encountered these issues (very few issues, but in an ocean of Subs on the market it shouldn’t have many). To me it means the product designer needs to work on a remedy so its less “fussy” to the end consumer. I do not want to have to pour over decades of AVS forum posts to find the best settings for my sub. I want to plug it in, perhaps do a sub crawl, some calibration be it built in or mini DSP and enjoy life. It is not supernatural for a product reviewer to be honest with their findings, in fact that is what gives Shane such value in the community. I returned my PSA but I will absolutely be trying more of their products in the future, sometimes things just don’t work out or perform the way we like them to. The good news is PSA has a fantastic return policy, so people can find out for themselves.
@@PumpUptheJam81 It's just the sensitivity of the system since PSA uses a really high efficiency PRO style driver. You shouldn't need any more than 9:00 on the amp gain even with the sub trim level -12 to get sufficient bass with most AVR's or Pre/Pros. If I set my TV1813's (which have the same amplifier as the S2112) at 12:00 on the amp gains the levels would be 30db hot. Aside from that, Shane Lee didn't turn off all correction in his Trinnov. All he turned off was the EQ. So the other settings were setup for whatever sub and placement prior. You don't have to pour over decades of forum posts on AVS. Post a question in the PSA owners thread and we will get you squared away.
@@joemeyers1016 Understood. I went through the process with Tom V on my setup and I was having similar issues with my unit. It is not an indictment of the company or product, it simply did not work out for my space for whatever reason. I DO want to give some of their other products a shot in the near future, my only issue is screen real estate encroaching where my subs like to live, and some of these units are quite large. I am better versed with Dirac/REW etc lately so it would be a fun endeavor.
@shane - What would your go-to subwoofer(s) be at the $2000 price point? For music and for home theater, but mostly home theater. I do think the visual “damn that’s big” factor shouldn’t be discounted, but that shouldn’t be the only thing,.
I've been waiting for a reviewer I can trust to analyze and compare a PSA sub. Super stoked to have you review it! I'd love it if you had a chance to go through the best pick for a price bracket, under 1k, 1-2k etc.
Based of Shanes reviews I would guess Rhytmik (tactile and super deep) and REL (super tactile) on the top ranks. Others also recommend Monoliths from Monoprice sadly not yet reviewed on this channel.
You are getting absurd spl below 15hz, 115db at 6hz?? However it looks like the room placement for the audible bass range is not doing your experience any favors. These things should be 122-123db plus over 40hz. There is a horrible null 25-50hz here that is going to be murdering the sweet spot for most HT bass.
That's why I normally get two when I review subs. Sometimes I'll get a null. I wasn't willing to drop $4k+ for a video but I took the hit on one since it was highly requested. I do get a lot of gain depending on my placement. So I kept it in a place that was manageable.
Heres the problem, you state the B&C ds115 driver Tom uses isn't musical? What? It's literally a top shelf pro driver (used in loads of recording studios) in an ideally suited box with a great amp... What a ridiculous statement. The fact you don't grasp it's a pro driver and know absolutely anything about it, how can you review you know so little about? Just plunk it down and have a go? I don't own any PSA stuff but man, take 20 mins and read something about it.
What is there to know? He’s got ears and has heard plenty of subs in that setup. Bottom line, that PSA should not bottom out so easily. Something is definitely off in the design.🤷♂️
I think your response would be more qualified if you actually audition a unit for yourself. Nobody is doubting the quality of the driver. In this particular application it simply did not overwhelm the reviewer. Quite ironic you would state his opinions as ridiculous when the guy reviews subs often, subs you admit you don’t own. Have you auditioned any yourself or just read specs online?
@@PumpUptheJam81 I own 8 of the 21" B&C ds115s actually.... In the same sized box but with double the power.... I specifically said the sound quality. Toms doesn't use any compression software in his subs, just a limiter. He says he hasn't bottomed out others. Were they at the same level? What was a voltage, his shown sweep was god awful and has a huge suck out. Why the hell wouldn't you take 5 mins and fix it? Just all around awfum
Would be good if you had included measurements and compression testing vs the other subwoofers you compared it to so that the viewers could get an objective impression of how loud and clean the subwoofer is vs the others.
Looking at the measurements, I get the following impressions. 1. There is a lot of native ULF boost in the sub. The 10hz is almost 10dB hotter than 20dB. Contrast with perlisten D215s where the 10hz is about 5dB lower than 20Hz. 2. The PSA measurement showed a significant dip in the 30-40hz range, and the 10hz ULF dominated. This may have led to the impression that the sub sounded slower. From past reviews, single subs tended to measure well in the front right position in your room, less dip in the 30-40hz range. 3. Can you share more review impressions from usual demo clips like midway, RPO, blade runner 2049 and greatest showman? 4. The significant built in ULF boost acts like a BEQ and makes a lot of movies sound really fun and bassy, but would not go well with reference bass tracks like EOT or other crazy stuff. Similarly, anyone who runs an aggressive house curve would also think twice about playing EOT at high volumes..
Just a really bad setup in his room. I mean there is a freaking 30DB difference in output between 10 HZ (118.8db at 9.91hz) and 38hz (89db at 38hz) with room size set a large. Who in there right mind would call this a decent sub placement?
@@therealshanelee I think what everyone is saying is that ANY sub setup like you did with the PSA will sound like crap regardless of brand. You know that the room is the deciding factor and yet you were unable or unwilling to setup the sub correctly then that is 100% on you!💩
@@m.s.5313 Integrating subs is difficult. Going by that graph it really needed some work to sound the best. I have put in a lot of hours integrating my two PB2000's with my mains with minidsp- getting them time aligned, etc.
Hello Shane! Thanks again for another awesome video. I have never liked woofers with according surround, they just don't sound as good as foam or butyl to me. I wonder if you would have liked the older PSA subs better? They had one with two 18's back to back, butyl surround woofers, and the amp 1700 rms with 4300 peak! Freq. response 17-200 hz +/-3db. In room was 7-11 hz! It's the S3601.
Reviews like this reinforce my preference for purchasing technology that has measurable data to support its performance. While I acknowledge the positive reputation of PSA subs, it's unfortunate that Tom from PSA doesn't share any measurement data. Even though CEA2010 numbers may not perfectly represent the actual performance experienced by all users, having some form of data would still be preferable to having none at all. I was debating between a PSA 21" subwoofer and Monolith's 16" subwoofers, and despite the overwhelming praise of the PSA subs, I ultimately chose the Monolith because at least there is some data available to support its performance.
Thanks for this review, Shane! I really wanted to hear your opinion on this one. I've been curious about PSA subs for the last couple of years. I've had some reservations about the huge pro audio drivers because of their cloth surround not having the same excursion as the beefy rubber surrounds we typically see in home audio. I just don't have a deep enough understanding of their capabilities.
i run my subwoofers like they have no limiter, think all my subwoofers over the years never had one. i adjust my volume accordingly, so either the volume is lover or limiter changes the frequency response. i want the sound to come thru as intended and not changed when i play too loud
OK, so your FR graph is showing the exact opposite of what one would expect from a sealed sub. 118db at 10hz from a single sealed? That is insane. You obviously placed this thing (or the mic) in a null, didn't do any EQ, and cranked the gain up too high to try to boost the rest of the volume. Think about how much output it is actually trying to do at the higher frequencies. No kidding it's making strange sounds playing EOT. The "slower sound" you're hearing is the massive 10hz output decay ringing in the room making the higher frequencies harder to hear clearly, not the driver. I'd love to see your waterfall graphs, which probably show exactly what's going on. The negatives you did find almost seem purposefully misleading. The fact that despite all that, it still sounded great in general speaks a lot to the sub.
Why would someone mislead people on a Box that makes low frequency effects? Some of these responses to the review make you think his findings are some sort of affront to peoples personal beliefs. There is another You Tube reviewer who made an entire video about the hysteria in the audio community when a reviewer dislikes a certain product that others worship. Why is this?
@@PumpUptheJam81 I'd imagine because he won't get any kind of commission if people decide it actually is a good sub compared to the others, but hey what do I know? I'm more inclined to think he spent several months trying to figure out how to subtly try to make this sub look mediocre, while acting like it wasn't actually his own doing. Or he literally just doesn't know what he's doing at all.
@@xkaern I think you nailed it with the “but hey what do I know?” Part. All we can do is watch the guys review and make our *respectful non dramatic* remarks. At the end of the day we are not in the room to see all of his testing methods/sweeps etc.. Every room is unique with it’s response to LFE (this is especially true with sealed subs). All I know, is that I have NEVER seen a subwoofer brand glean so much drama on the forums and RUclips. One would think they are embarking on a political or religious discussion judging by how people get so upset when a user is not happy with the subs performance.
@@PumpUptheJam81 That's because people act like you're supposed to be able to just plug it in and do nothing and have it perform perfectly, then act like it's not any good. Subs without eq built in are meant to be eq'd by the user with, if nothing else, the most basic calibration in an avr. Now it does look like his room in general when he places a single sub does have a big dip in what are really the primary LF HT frequencies. That dip appears to go away below 20hz, which doesn't seem to have been an issue before because all the other sub reviews don't appear to have subs that are even be capable of that much at ~10hz... they all roll off hard. The fact that he's getting that output with a single sealed sub pretty much shows that this sub is capable of more output that anything else he's reviewed to date. He then acts like that output is a "problem" with the sub, instead of it being a result of his implementation. Like I said elsewhere, disingenuous at best.
Hahaha are you being serious? I'm talking down on the sub because I won't get a commission? I took months to subtly make it look bad? So you think I willingly spent $2200 to bash a subwoofer. As if I had money to throw away. From all the owners praising it it should have been a slam dunk performer and a safe purchase as my reference subwoofer. But it is NOT. You conspiracy theorists are something else. It's quite entertaining actually. So keep trying to bash me in the comments. It's funny.
I was all set to buy this until I watched your review… Since the Perlisten is WAY out of my budget, what would you recommend at this $2k price point? The Rhythmik you mentioned?
The gain knob look way higher than anyone else I've seen use a psa sub. I would of liked to see compression tests. Bet he's pushing the subwoofer way to hard.
Gain control on its own is meaningless. We'd need to know how high his processor was turned up as well for it to mean anything. The gain on a sub is just a multiplier for your input signal, which gives the final output.
Thanks Shane, I have really looking forward to your review on this Sub. If at any time please look into Asendo again the but this time SMSG18, if that Sub can match Perlisten D215
Just a thanks for the awesome subwoofer review! I'd love to see more subwoofer comparison content so I can nail my system setup, I use reviews like yours to help me pick components for my system in an area where I can't demo anything without shipping it to my house.
Excellent timing. I am definitely going to get 2 Rythmik F18s for movie only listening. Thanks for the review, the Perlistens are not worth the absorbent price, and the RELs don't have enough adjustments.
Just watched the video, and this driver is only 15mm xmax. In the deep bass, it won't keep up with a good ported sub unless it's in a small room and has a good response at the mlp, which the REW showed this was not the case. The driver used is about as quick as you can get without push/pull setup or dual opposed, but the deep bass was way too lifted to even judge that part imo. These shine in the 40+hz range in any room size but will require multiples to satisfy the deeper frequencies and most buying this type of sub would be doing.
Shane. Great review. I have a pair of s2112m subs. I have them set to large, and I experience the issues you indicate. Should I set them toMost of the time they are great. My rec room is an L-shaped basement that is over 7000qft. Two s2112m do a good job, but I am thinking of adding a third s2112m in the back corner. I will set them to small and EQ again to se the effect. I am on the cheap right now. I am now running a 7.2.6 setup with the Emotiva MC1.
Small would keep them under better control unless you can apply a high pass filter on them. The enclosure seems too small for those drivers hence the bottoming out mechanical noises. At that price point they really shouldn't do that.
Great review i have psa subs right now and have bought eleven in total over the years the newer ones with the ipal drivers i have not had one bottom out my two older psa subs have four long throw 18" drivers in fourth order and they have never bottom out i have had jl audio subs was not impressed. But keep up the great reviews
@Shane Lee one thing i can say about the new subs is that the boxes are made in china i would not buy one because of that who knows how the boxes are built home theater has been a hobby for a long time and car audio even longer and when it comes to subs its all about the box
That’s not my understanding. Some cabinet’s definitely are hand made there in Ohio and that is noted as such on the website. This particular cabinet is made in China as I recall.
@@RobZelinka ya I guess the matte finish is China ur right, guessing the interior blue print is the same as the satin boxes tho, they weigh the same so I'm sure it's fine.. TV 21 matte weighs same as tv21 satin. Most of the models are Ohio built.
Whaaaaaaat I can't believe he did it lololol...now I gotta watch this. Note, thanks to Shane and Matt Pose I sold my PSA sealed units and got a bunch of Perlisten subs...not sad at all! But, I never experienced what Shane did, I enojoyed my PSAs while I had them.
thanks for the review. PSA does have a cult following and I'm sure they're fine. But IMO it's the wrong type of driver in too small of a box. Those drivers are tuned for 30hz and up. Pro audio stuff not home theater.
Did you see his room response? He gets 115db at 6hz with a single sub! His response above 20hz is atrocious, if room correction is trying to fix that it's going to be gobbling all the headroom up.
@@ass2mouthallday do they though? From what little measurements there are for those drivers in DIY they seem to lose efficiency under 30hz. Thus requiring DVCs and a lot of power and heavy handed DSP to achieve those results. At what expense? No one knows because they’ve never been tested.
@@generynkewicz4871They have similar efficiency below 30hz as any other home theater sub. You don't know shit because its reversed. They have increased sensitivity above 30hz not the other way around. They are xmax limited at lows as any sub is but their xmax is not that poor.
Hi Shane, you really should have found a better position for that beast, that response looks really bad. It was never gonna sound great with that massive wide dip.
Doesn’t matter where I put it. I either get a dip there or several in different places. This is the best spot for this single sub. If I had two I’d get a much flatter response. I wasn’t dropping that much money for two though. Im baffled as to why folks think after several months with it and with almost 40 or so different subwoofer reviews. I wouldn’t know where to place a sub. I also have a two channel setup I test these with. It’s a nice sub but it’s got one main issue as shown in the video. Placement isn’t fixing that.
@@therealshanelee please don't take this the wrong way, I appreciate your reviews. Maybe show a few extra response sweeps and less clips of you watching movie scenes? Peace ✌️
Yeah, with that much output on the low end and that HUGE dip, you obviously did not have that placed in the best spot for your room. Of course when you have gain to compensate for that null you will overdrive it at the lower frequencies. That null is not sub and 1000% room/placement related. Also I assume the vast majority that would spend this kind of money on a sub would have a receiver of basic room correction. Room correction would tamper that low end peaks so it wouldn't be over driven by the poor room placement and therefore sound much better. Your poor choices didn't give the sub a proper opportunity and therefore your review is disingenuous.
@@therealshanelee You are either less capable/knowledgeable in doing setup/calibration than you present to be or I have no idea what your motives are. Where do you have it and what are your room measurements after calibration. Calibration would cut that low end peaks out to get you a flatter response. A flatter response will prevent that driver from motor noise.
No it will not. Trust me I've tried. If you all can't take constructive criticism on a short coming of a product I don't know what else to tell you. And please tell me. What do YOU think the "agenda " might be as you say. Humor me.
@@therealshanelee No Agenda? Prove it! Since you get review subs in all the time, send yours to your buddies at Audioholics (which may still be bias supporting you but at least they have a scientific reputation to keep) and get anechoic scientific measurements. That sub making drive noise like that is purely by you not having it setup or calibrated properly in your room. You are driving the lower frequencies too hard trying to compensate for your room null.
@@therealshanelee it’s ok Iv got the 15in ported and it does the same thing. Lol Now what to get next maybe a JTR 18in or wait and see that your getting next to review. 😎👍
@@HPMIKE55 go for the JTR. I just upgraded to the JTR Captivator 2400. Far and away the best bass I’ve ever experienced and I’ve owned Seaton, SVS, Velodyne, Paradigm, Martin Logan, you name it!
Shane . I have been watching your reviews on many products and subwoofers as well as your movie reviews on audio and visual. It appears to me that you have a very different perspective on subwoofer reviews I respect your opinions on all products because you have very high end equipment to test any product to its limit. having saying this I also watch many other you tube reviewers and podcasts my question is many other reviewers would have so many positive reviews on many of the subwoofers you review do you think it is more of the listeners preference or do you review more critically ? the subwoofer that I always hear is the end game sub is typically J.T.R and although I have not seen a review from you on any J.T.R product is their a reason behind this or is it you are just not a big fan.
They're far to expensive for me to buy and try just to get a couple thousand views on a RUclips video. This sub was co-founded with my Patreon and RUclips membership subscribers. I'd have no issues trying one out but as of right now they are too pricey. I'm sure they are very capable subs.
Most of the smaller internet direct sellers rarely send out subs for review, but some like PSA are strictly against it, hence why Shane had to purchase the sub to review it. This is actually one of the reasons why I flat out refuse to buy from PSA. It looks as though Tom has something to hide if he doesn’t want his products reviewed and tested. Reminds me of Bose. That is my personal take on it anyway.
@@brucecarter6205 There is nothing to hide, I own dual TV21s, came from dual svs pb 3000s, upgraded to dual pb16s, then finally to TV21s. The pb16s are completely outclassed by the TV21s. My top compression sweep in a 6500 cu ft room on concrete is 120db+ 14hz -100hz. 122db at 16hz with 3 percent distortion. 118db at 13hz. Because my room is massive I barely get any room gain, only a nice bump 14-18hz. So there is no faking this output thanks to a small room, its legit. In comparison to the PB16s they have 9-10db more output 10-13hz then the pb16s, got knows how much over 50hz and roughly similar 20-35hz. They provide huge midbass slam I never got with the other subs. I use the PB16s as a reference point because they are measured by audioholics and can allow for a reasonable guess at CEA numbers since I have them positioned identically to the PB16s. That being said the 'loose limiter' makes these subs not friendly to newbies or those wanting a plug and play experience. A mini dsp is going to be ideal to get the best out of them, I do think they need to be limited below 10hz a bit. Anyways there is a reason the PSA sub is the most viewed thread on AVS forums, its not due to bad subwoofers.
Seems they really decided to let the output run wild to wow people and then just didn't bother with distortion-control or limiters on the low-end. I'm sure that if you don't go to the limits with it it'll sound fine and run fine, but it's evidently not a sub you'd want to just set up with someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
I wanted to like the 18” IPAL version of this sub in my setup, but it simply did not give me the output I was expecting for such a large driver. Online forum reviews are nearly evangelical with their praise for these subs, so I just had to try one for myself.
One of my reference scenes is Star Trek’s “Edge of Darkness” when the volcano erupts with Spock inside. There was a lot of mechanical noise and overall sounded stressed. With music (my first passion) I was disappointed with the subs ability to integrate with my mains. I returned the Sub and the vendor indicated it was functioning properly.
Shanes observations are overall congruent with mine.
I moved on to a Monolith 13 THX which absolutely delivered the goods I was looking for. I am now running three JL Audio Fathoms, and that has finally satisfied the overall balance of slam, articulation and SPL and integration that I have been looking for. Room setup is KEY, and a single subwoofer, even a large one, is not always the best approach.
I think with a dual setup, and patience with calibration, this sub could deliver for many people. Looking forward to future iterations as I do believe this company puts out solid customer service and products.
Glad I’m not the only one. You never hear anything negative hence why I bought it. Figured it was a safe bet.
@@therealshanelee I thought it would be a “home run” as well. I think there is a group of people who have not been truly exposed to what amazing articulate clean bass sounds like. This sub IS an upgrade for many, but to the more initiated it falls short in several performance metrics. Thanks for taking the time and subsequent hit to the wallet to review! Always a pleasure.
@@PumpUptheJam81 uh. You're saying one 18 didn't perform as well as the 3 (or 4??) subs together you have now? so shocking
@@xkaern If you take the time to read my impressions it performed poorly on its own, regardless of driver count or size. I followed up with a remedy by replacing it with a ported 13” driver, which destroyed the PSA. I also have an 10” RSL speedwoofer that also outperformed the 18” with music.
If the PSA I sampled performed well, I would have purchased two more for my theater. Does this make sense now?
Nowhere in my brief write up was I comparing a single sub to three. It was a brief illustration of my journey to the bass performance I was looking for. JL delivered in the end.
If you attempt a go at sarcasm on a public forum you might want to take a cursory view of the content you’re poking fun at, so you can draft an emotionally mature response.
To be clear: you returned an 18” iPal PSA sub, replaced it with a 13” Monoprice one and felt that was superior to the 18” ipal?
I have two PSA TV1813s and I have never bottomed them out or heard any kind of distortion. They blew away my old PB16s without a sweat. I'm wondering if this is an issue with having a large 21" B&C driver in a small sealed cabinet. The ported TV1813s hit some extreme levels down to 10 Hz, and don't sound stressed at all. Not only that, but the bass sounds very precise. The mid-bass is articulate and violently impactful whiteout being muddy. I have never heard the 21" model, but I'm glad I went with the TV1813s lol.
Imagine for a second, given just one of these gives output of 115db in this room At 6hz, Then take the worst room response ever above 20hz, if you bought 4 of these (cost of one perlisten d215). You would have infinite headroom, probably be 125-130db+ capable from 5-100hz and have a flat response. The subs would be coasting.
Thank you for beeing honest in your review and not hiding the negatives. Respect.
👍👍
Given the performance of the single Rythmik 18" I would be very curious to get your feedback on the Rythmik G25HP Dual Opposed 15" subwoofer as it's in the same price range as the PSA.
Explain how you can have a ridiculously bad frequency response and then give a review on what it’s capable of and what it isn’t? I would genuinely like a explanation why it should be given any validity other than aesthetics for a review.
Its a single sub - what kind of response do you expect it to have? It's Shane's choice NOT to use external EQ in his speaker/sub reviews,it's his channel,he can do it how HE wants to ,
At least he shows frequency response charts, most YT reviews don't even go to that much effort.
Honestly I don't know why anyone would bother posting a PSA product review if the hoards are going to get butthurt over anything except an absolutely glowing review.
It's a freakin subwoofer review for God's sake, people are acting like he insulted their child or something
I think you owe it to yourself to set this subwoofer up right. I am not sure why you didn’t EQ. Not many subwoofers are going to sound perfect if you just drop them in the room and don’t even EQ. Looking at your response you can see why you didn’t think this subwoofer sounded as crisp and clear as every PSA owner raves. You have over 20db drop starting at 30hz and up. The bottom end is dominating your response and with the much slower decay of low bass in room it is likely making it sound muddier. If you can’t bring that down with EQ you need to try different positions for that subwoofer in your room.
I don’t know anyone who has said the B&C pro driver is “slow” or muddy or whatever word you want to use. Even cheap pro drivers are usually going to sound clean/fast compared to a higher excursion driver and this isn’t a cheap pro driver… I feel like it’s a set up issue when your experience differs so much from the vast majority of PSA owners. That B&C driver has been popular in DIY circles for a long while too. So it’s a known quantity.
Also, looking at the measurements, I would bet that perlisten has a lot more aggressive limiter on the bottom end. Yeah, it won’t make a bad noise but you aren’t getting any usable output down at 10-12hz either. The perlisten measured only 90db at 10hz (with 13% distortion) and 95db at 12.5hz. And it’s only at 110db at 25hz. It’s peak output was 123db at 125hz. And the perlisten is ported!
www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/perlisten-d215s/conclusion
The S2112 is showing 116db in the single digits in your room.
I don’t know why you focused so much on that 10hz sine wave in the EoT intro either. It’s a brutal test for any subwoofer. If you want a lot of output at 10hz you are going to need multiple powerful subwoofers.
But that EoT 10hz sine wave is not very realistic for real world content. How much content has that type of output at 10hz?
It kind of sounds like you might possibly be clipping during that intro, which would explain the noise.
I think music would have been a MUCH better test for this subwoofer to judge how clean it is than movies.
Take some time to optimize, apply some EQ to bring the low end in line with the mid bass. I bet it will sound a whole lot better then.
Here’s a great thorough review of the s2112 where someone took the time to set it up properly.
www.avsforum.com/threads/power-sound-audio-s2112-review-say-hello-to-my-little-friend.3206114/
So you think I just drop it in my room and use it that way for months before I give my thoughts. It has a problem that eq won't fix. I even mentioned my thoughts on music. I have a pretty capable music setup as well I'd like to think. I've heard better believe it or not.
@@therealshanelee i didn’t mean any offense. Sorry if my response came off the wrong way.
You said at the beginning of the video that you wouldn’t be using any room correction for the demos and you would only be using the controls on the back of the subwoofer to integrate it into your system. I was just basing my comment off that and your in-room response graph showing that 20-25db drop from the 116db peak at 9.8hz to around 95db at 30hz and that large null around 30-50hz. I didn’t know you applied EQ or listened to this subwoofer for months. If you mentioned it in the video I missed it.
@@therealshanelee From what was stated and shown in the video, it doesn't haven a problem eq won't fix, the way you set it up had a problem you didn't try to fix with eq (or placement perhaps). No one who is buying 2k subwoofers just plugs them in and thinks that's how they should be judged with no calibration at all.
@@xkaern it absolutely has a problem eq won’t fix. I’m sure your not blind and deaf. You’ve seen the video. I also have one of the most capable processors out there. You think within four months I haven’t calibrated using said processor? This sub is nothing special sorry to break to you. I’ve had so many better ones. I’m not saying it’s bad it’s just not what it’s hyped up to be.
That's a well conducted review not like this half arsed effort!
First, off Shane, I truly appreciate the review. What we look for is your perspective which is supported by your reputation (born from your knowledge, skill, and ability). But in the end, it is we as consumers who need to compare, contrast and assess our situations after weighing the facts and opinions found in our own research and the assessments made by reviewers. In short, we should not be sitting here waiting for Shane to spoon-feed us everything on a platter (mental laziness) instead of doing the work ourselves. And then Argue over the validity of his opinion. IT'S AN OPINION FOR GOD'S SAKE- like a butt- everybody has one and Shane is entitled to his. Thank you Shane for reviewing a sub from a company that other RUclipsrs chose not to review (because Tom doesn't play the RUclipsr Gimme-Game). While I have seen the hype about the S2112M, the sealed subwoofer is not my game. I know there is a lot of interest/buzz about the TV 2112 ported (Standard or iPal). There is the review that Rafcave did and trashed the TV 2112 for a Klipsch sub (unbelievable). The community's beef with Raf's review was that it was not as detailed and conclusive as yours. No graphs, no detailed research just ---"I did not like it, so I sent it back."
So thanks Shane for doing the work and giving an honest opinion of the sub. Hopefully, other RUclipsrs will see your review as an example and follow suit with the TV 2112 or other subs from Power Sound Audio--- to ASSIST us in making a decision (not making the decision for us--smh). Keep up the great work Shane!
Appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time to comment 🍻
This video is the gift that just keeps on giving. So much energy towards it. First, thank you for taking time to review the sub. Also, for your time to produce a video and offer your opinion which has been met with much scrutiny. I think it's fair to say PSA has a very robust and loyal fan base. To that end, it is a surprise to me there are not more RUclips reviews on their products.
For what it may be worth, I didn't think you offered a terrible review. People can question all day long where you placed it, how you optimized it, did you perform a fair A/B test, etc. Even with facial expressions and reactions, can one really determine from watching a video on a smartphone, tablet, computer, etc. how this sub will sound in their room? You note on all your reviews the demo will sound different in person. I think most expect that and also expect the only true way to know how it will sound is to go and listen in a similar environment or better yet, buy one and try for yourself.
I enjoy your content. Mostly because it's about a topic I am passionate about. I also find it entertaining. That said, your videos on speakers/ subwoofers (or anyone else's for that matter) don't persuade me to run out and buy a product. Alternatively, they don't stop me from buying one either. Maybe I would feel differently if there were many video reviews which were all consistent in their opinion, but that's not the case here.
They don't lend out units that's partly why there aren't many reviews. We've spoke about the review here: ruclips.net/user/liveCBaH_TFU60s?feature=share
@@therealshanelee thank you for the follow up. I watched this one recently as well. My point about the lack of reviews on PSA offerings was coming from the context of current or previous owners. Not necessarily from those who tend to provide reviews on a consistent basis. I would think given their fan base, you'd see videos from happy customers. Those are few and far between.
@@RobZelinka Visit AVS forum owners thread, it has the most posts on the entire site, believe the thread has 5 million+ views. 75k+ comments.
@@mattfowler8775 yes, thank you. I frequent the site often. That aside, there are very few videos here on RUclips for PSA subs. That still seems odd to me
That PSA thread over on AVS has made for some fun reading since this review dropped. I figured it would knowing how defensive Tom and that community can get over there. Tom says he doesn’t care, but clearly he does judging by his many posts on the topic over the last 2 weeks.
I have 2x TV2112 and I think you would have been much happier with the low tuned vented version instead of sealed. I have been very happy. Edge of Tomorrow shakes my house. Large room ,no nueter.
No flapping noises during that movie intro?
I get the same flapping sound from the driver with dual TV21 IPAL. My measurement graph looks normal and pretty flat without any EQ so its not room placement issues. Even if I try a test tone at medium volumes (90db) I get flapping at 13-14-15 hz no flapping below that or above that. So weird.
@@perryler nope, no weird noises on my end.
I appreciate the honest review. Considering you heard the best of the best, which includes the Godzilla of subwoofers your review means a lot.
I own two PSA S3000i subs in a 6000 ft3 and it is amazing with no issues.
btw everyone that edge of tomorrow beginning scene is 30hz,25hz,20hz,15hz and 10hz ..just incase anyone is wondering what frequencies are there..now you know.
I have ancient Gefco long throw rubber surround woofers in my main speakers. They really crank out the bass within reason and never really break up. They just bottom out with a rattle or pop when they are pushed too hard. I built them probably in the late 70s and they still sound great with Philips dome tweeters and realistic 1.5 dome midrange.
I did add a cheap but decent sub and kept upgrading over the years to pick up what the small 8" woofers just can't handle. Radio Shack actually had some decent raw speakers back in the day and those mid-range domes were one of them.
Seriously, you have essentially a 20 dB house curve starting at 10 Hz! And a 13 dB suck out between 25 Hz and 45 Hz (didn't take the time to tune or place properly). And you adjusted this single SEALED sub to the level you had pairs of PORTED subs. What did you expect? I don't have any PSA subs yet...but I'm NOT canceling my TV1813M order.
Thx man! Good to see some of PSA products in review.
Thanks for an honest review. Those are hard to come by these days. Much appreciated.
I have the tv21 ipal and have also experienced some of the port chuffing issues. The best thing about the subwoofer is the midbass slam thats alot of fun. Im strongly considering selling it and going Martin logan balancedforce 212s or some Jtr rs1s. I know you have experience with both. How is the midbass on the martin logan?
For starters you have the amp gain set too high on that S2112. You are compensating for that large dip around 40hz. You are down 20-25db in that area. Noon position on the amp gain is likely going to put that sub +15-20db hot over a standard 75db calibration. Run calibration for the sub and then run the test material back.
@@wahababbasi142 I can appreciate a product requiring time to calibrate and fine tune for a specific installation. However, if you take a look at the comments in this review, Shane is not the only person who encountered these issues (very few issues, but in an ocean of Subs on the market it shouldn’t have many).
To me it means the product designer needs to work on a remedy so its less “fussy” to the end consumer. I do not want to have to pour over decades of AVS forum posts to find the best settings for my sub. I want to plug it in, perhaps do a sub crawl, some calibration be it built in or mini DSP and enjoy life. It is not supernatural for a product reviewer to be honest with their findings, in fact that is what gives Shane such value in the community.
I returned my PSA but I will absolutely be trying more of their products in the future, sometimes things just don’t work out or perform the way we like them to. The good news is PSA has a fantastic return policy, so people can find out for themselves.
@@PumpUptheJam81 It's just the sensitivity of the system since PSA uses a really high efficiency PRO style driver. You shouldn't need any more than 9:00 on the amp gain even with the sub trim level -12 to get sufficient bass with most AVR's or Pre/Pros. If I set my TV1813's (which have the same amplifier as the S2112) at 12:00 on the amp gains the levels would be 30db hot. Aside from that, Shane Lee didn't turn off all correction in his Trinnov. All he turned off was the EQ. So the other settings were setup for whatever sub and placement prior. You don't have to pour over decades of forum posts on AVS. Post a question in the PSA owners thread and we will get you squared away.
@@joemeyers1016 Understood. I went through the process with Tom V on my setup and I was having similar issues with my unit. It is not an indictment of the company or product, it simply did not work out for my space for whatever reason. I DO want to give some of their other products a shot in the near future, my only issue is screen real estate encroaching where my subs like to live, and some of these units are quite large. I am better versed with Dirac/REW etc lately so it would be a fun endeavor.
I run my dual TV21's at about 9'oclock a tad less something has to be wrong to have to have this one set at noon!
@@drewsmith1566 agreed, my s42 is probably around 9-10 and it’s still crazy with room setting to small and my space is pretty large at 42x14x7.
IMO, Subs need to be integrated in these types of reviews. Dailed in.
@shane - What would your go-to subwoofer(s) be at the $2000 price point? For music and for home theater, but mostly home theater. I do think the visual “damn that’s big” factor shouldn’t be discounted, but that shouldn’t be the only thing,.
This was a great review Shane. But out of curiosity... What sub would you consider for a 2.1 system in the $1-2K price range?
Thanks fir the review. What MV (main volume) are you at for your demos?
I've been waiting for a reviewer I can trust to analyze and compare a PSA sub. Super stoked to have you review it! I'd love it if you had a chance to go through the best pick for a price bracket, under 1k, 1-2k etc.
Go see "spec of tech" for me he is better
He is going to sell you what he makes a percentage on lol...
Based of Shanes reviews I would guess Rhytmik (tactile and super deep) and REL (super tactile) on the top ranks. Others also recommend Monoliths from Monoprice sadly not yet reviewed on this channel.
You are getting absurd spl below 15hz, 115db at 6hz?? However it looks like the room placement for the audible bass range is not doing your experience any favors. These things should be 122-123db plus over 40hz. There is a horrible null 25-50hz here that is going to be murdering the sweet spot for most HT bass.
That's why I normally get two when I review subs. Sometimes I'll get a null. I wasn't willing to drop $4k+ for a video but I took the hit on one since it was highly requested. I do get a lot of gain depending on my placement. So I kept it in a place that was manageable.
@@therealshanelee was that response post room correction?
What a great value!
Heres the problem, you state the B&C ds115 driver Tom uses isn't musical? What? It's literally a top shelf pro driver (used in loads of recording studios) in an ideally suited box with a great amp... What a ridiculous statement.
The fact you don't grasp it's a pro driver and know absolutely anything about it, how can you review you know so little about? Just plunk it down and have a go? I don't own any PSA stuff but man, take 20 mins and read something about it.
I love the internet (mah pro driver in a custom box puts out 137 DBs!)
@@doyleshafer He's kinda right.
What is there to know? He’s got ears and has heard plenty of subs in that setup. Bottom line, that PSA should not bottom out so easily. Something is definitely off in the design.🤷♂️
I think your response would be more qualified if you actually audition a unit for yourself. Nobody is doubting the quality of the driver. In this particular application it simply did not overwhelm the reviewer. Quite ironic you would state his opinions as ridiculous when the guy reviews subs often, subs you admit you don’t own. Have you auditioned any yourself or just read specs online?
@@PumpUptheJam81 I own 8 of the 21" B&C ds115s actually.... In the same sized box but with double the power.... I specifically said the sound quality. Toms doesn't use any compression software in his subs, just a limiter. He says he hasn't bottomed out others. Were they at the same level? What was a voltage, his shown sweep was god awful and has a huge suck out. Why the hell wouldn't you take 5 mins and fix it? Just all around awfum
Would be good if you had included measurements and compression testing vs the other subwoofers you compared it to so that the viewers could get an objective impression of how loud and clean the subwoofer is vs the others.
Good review Shane
Looking at the measurements, I get the following impressions.
1. There is a lot of native ULF boost in the sub. The 10hz is almost 10dB hotter than 20dB. Contrast with perlisten D215s where the 10hz is about 5dB lower than 20Hz.
2. The PSA measurement showed a significant dip in the 30-40hz range, and the 10hz ULF dominated. This may have led to the impression that the sub sounded slower. From past reviews, single subs tended to measure well in the front right position in your room, less dip in the 30-40hz range.
3. Can you share more review impressions from usual demo clips like midway, RPO, blade runner 2049 and greatest showman?
4. The significant built in ULF boost acts like a BEQ and makes a lot of movies sound really fun and bassy, but would not go well with reference bass tracks like EOT or other crazy stuff. Similarly, anyone who runs an aggressive house curve would also think twice about playing EOT at high volumes..
Just a really bad setup in his room. I mean there is a freaking 30DB difference in output between 10 HZ (118.8db at 9.91hz) and 38hz (89db at 38hz) with room size set a large. Who in there right mind would call this a decent sub placement?
@johnrogers3967 your absolutely right cause nothing is better than PSA. 🤡
@@therealshanelee I think what everyone is saying is that ANY sub setup like you did with the PSA will sound like crap regardless of brand.
You know that the room is the deciding factor and yet you were unable or unwilling to setup the sub correctly then that is 100% on you!💩
@@m.s.5313 Integrating subs is difficult. Going by that graph it really needed some work to sound the best. I have put in a lot of hours integrating my two PB2000's with my mains with minidsp- getting them time aligned, etc.
Hello Shane! Thanks again for another awesome video. I have never liked woofers with according surround, they just don't sound as good as foam or butyl to me. I wonder if you would have liked the older PSA subs better? They had one with two 18's back to back, butyl surround woofers, and the amp 1700 rms with 4300 peak! Freq. response 17-200 hz +/-3db. In room was 7-11 hz! It's the S3601.
I remember those. They look like they’d take a harder beating for sure.
One step slower in speed, one giant leap backwards in distortion. Thanks for providing this review, Shane.
Reviews like this reinforce my preference for purchasing technology that has measurable data to support its performance.
While I acknowledge the positive reputation of PSA subs, it's unfortunate that Tom from PSA doesn't share any measurement data. Even though CEA2010 numbers may not perfectly represent the actual performance experienced by all users, having some form of data would still be preferable to having none at all. I was debating between a PSA 21" subwoofer and Monolith's 16" subwoofers, and despite the overwhelming praise of the PSA subs, I ultimately chose the Monolith because at least there is some data available to support its performance.
Thanks for this review, Shane! I really wanted to hear your opinion on this one. I've been curious about PSA subs for the last couple of years. I've had some reservations about the huge pro audio drivers because of their cloth surround not having the same excursion as the beefy rubber surrounds we typically see in home audio. I just don't have a deep enough understanding of their capabilities.
The surround material is irrelevant.
I own a pair of these. Got them when they first released for $4k and have been EXTREMELY happy.
But yeah….edge of tomorrow is ROUGH
i run my subwoofers like they have no limiter, think all my subwoofers over the years never had one.
i adjust my volume accordingly, so either the volume is lover or limiter changes the frequency response.
i want the sound to come thru as intended and not changed when i play too loud
Nice... So many Subs!!🙂
OK, so your FR graph is showing the exact opposite of what one would expect from a sealed sub. 118db at 10hz from a single sealed? That is insane. You obviously placed this thing (or the mic) in a null, didn't do any EQ, and cranked the gain up too high to try to boost the rest of the volume. Think about how much output it is actually trying to do at the higher frequencies. No kidding it's making strange sounds playing EOT. The "slower sound" you're hearing is the massive 10hz output decay ringing in the room making the higher frequencies harder to hear clearly, not the driver. I'd love to see your waterfall graphs, which probably show exactly what's going on. The negatives you did find almost seem purposefully misleading. The fact that despite all that, it still sounded great in general speaks a lot to the sub.
Why would someone mislead people on a Box that makes low frequency effects? Some of these responses to the review make you think his findings are some sort of affront to peoples personal beliefs. There is another You Tube reviewer who made an entire video about the hysteria in the audio community when a reviewer dislikes a certain product that others worship. Why is this?
@@PumpUptheJam81 I'd imagine because he won't get any kind of commission if people decide it actually is a good sub compared to the others, but hey what do I know? I'm more inclined to think he spent several months trying to figure out how to subtly try to make this sub look mediocre, while acting like it wasn't actually his own doing. Or he literally just doesn't know what he's doing at all.
@@xkaern I think you nailed it with the “but hey what do I know?” Part. All we can do is watch the guys review and make our *respectful non dramatic* remarks. At the end of the day we are not in the room to see all of his testing methods/sweeps etc.. Every room is unique with it’s response to LFE (this is especially true with sealed subs).
All I know, is that I have NEVER seen a subwoofer brand glean so much drama on the forums and RUclips. One would think they are embarking on a political or religious discussion judging by how people get so upset when a user is not happy with the subs performance.
@@PumpUptheJam81 That's because people act like you're supposed to be able to just plug it in and do nothing and have it perform perfectly, then act like it's not any good. Subs without eq built in are meant to be eq'd by the user with, if nothing else, the most basic calibration in an avr. Now it does look like his room in general when he places a single sub does have a big dip in what are really the primary LF HT frequencies. That dip appears to go away below 20hz, which doesn't seem to have been an issue before because all the other sub reviews don't appear to have subs that are even be capable of that much at ~10hz... they all roll off hard. The fact that he's getting that output with a single sealed sub pretty much shows that this sub is capable of more output that anything else he's reviewed to date. He then acts like that output is a "problem" with the sub, instead of it being a result of his implementation. Like I said elsewhere, disingenuous at best.
Hahaha are you being serious? I'm talking down on the sub because I won't get a commission? I took months to subtly make it look bad? So you think I willingly spent $2200 to bash a subwoofer. As if I had money to throw away. From all the owners praising it it should have been a slam dunk performer and a safe purchase as my reference subwoofer. But it is NOT. You conspiracy theorists are something else. It's quite entertaining actually. So keep trying to bash me in the comments. It's funny.
I hope you are able to stress test the new RSL speedwoofer 12s 👍👌🙏
I'll be reviewing that one for Audioholics.
@@therealshanelee ooooohhhh I'm so ready!! 😳😁
I was all set to buy this until I watched your review…
Since the Perlisten is WAY out of my budget, what would you recommend at this $2k price point? The Rhythmik you mentioned?
The gain knob look way higher than anyone else I've seen use a psa sub. I would of liked to see compression tests. Bet he's pushing the subwoofer way to hard.
Gain control on its own is meaningless. We'd need to know how high his processor was turned up as well for it to mean anything. The gain on a sub is just a multiplier for your input signal, which gives the final output.
Hi Shane. A little off topic but will the Denon a1h review be dropping soon. Keep up the great work
Soon
Thanks Shane, I have really looking forward to your review on this Sub. If at any time please look into Asendo again the but this time SMSG18, if that Sub can match Perlisten D215
Things are in the works.
@@therealshanelee looking forward to it 😀
Just a thanks for the awesome subwoofer review! I'd love to see more subwoofer comparison content so I can nail my system setup, I use reviews like yours to help me pick components for my system in an area where I can't demo anything without shipping it to my house.
Hey Shane, I may have missed the video, but what did you settle on for your bed layer after your B&W? Great video btw.
My current everyday setup will always be listed in the video description 👍
Excellent timing. I am definitely going to get 2 Rythmik F18s for movie only listening. Thanks for the review, the Perlistens are not worth the absorbent price, and the RELs don't have enough adjustments.
And think about how many F18s you could get for one perlisten.
Better than a pb 16 ultra or worse?
Depends on how much you want to work on it to get it too sound good.
@@therealshanelee supposed they are both dialed in then which one wins ?
Funny how you expect a single sub to sound good given that’s the frequency response at the MLP with +-15db swings across the spectrum 🤣
Hey Shane - have you ever thought about doing a Funk or Harbottle audio sub review?
Yes I have but they are far too much for me to buy for a video.
I have 2 tv ipal 21inch subs n yes they are nice but edge of tomorrow is not soo good but other than that they do the job
Where do you have the gain knob at? It looks like Shane has it at noon.
Been waiting on this one for a while good review 🙂👍🏼 everbody be careful slamming that bass.
Just watched the video, and this driver is only 15mm xmax. In the deep bass, it won't keep up with a good ported sub unless it's in a small room and has a good response at the mlp, which the REW showed this was not the case. The driver used is about as quick as you can get without push/pull setup or dual opposed, but the deep bass was way too lifted to even judge that part imo. These shine in the 40+hz range in any room size but will require multiples to satisfy the deeper frequencies and most buying this type of sub would be doing.
6:30 Are those the max levels you've measured?
I’m glad I watched if only for the reaction to the medium room setting demo. Hahaha
Shane. Great review. I have a pair of s2112m subs. I have them set to large, and I experience the issues you indicate. Should I set them toMost of the time they are great. My rec room is an L-shaped basement that is over 7000qft. Two s2112m do a good job, but I am thinking of adding a third s2112m in the back corner. I will set them to small and EQ again to se the effect. I am on the cheap right now. I am now running a 7.2.6 setup with the Emotiva MC1.
Small would keep them under better control unless you can apply a high pass filter on them. The enclosure seems too small for those drivers hence the bottoming out mechanical noises. At that price point they really shouldn't do that.
Badass woofer Shane. I wonder if it could be diy for cheaper?❓🤔
Great review i have psa subs right now and have bought eleven in total over the years the newer ones with the ipal drivers i have not had one bottom out my two older psa subs have four long throw 18" drivers in fourth order and they have never bottom out i have had jl audio subs was not impressed. But keep up the great reviews
Glad yours are working great for you. Enjoy! 🍻
@Shane Lee one thing i can say about the new subs is that the boxes are made in china i would not buy one because of that who knows how the boxes are built home theater has been a hobby for a long time and car audio even longer and when it comes to subs its all about the box
@@thecrowe357 the boxes are hand made in Ohio.
That’s not my understanding. Some cabinet’s definitely are hand made there in Ohio and that is noted as such on the website.
This particular cabinet is made in China as I recall.
@@RobZelinka ya I guess the matte finish is China ur right, guessing the interior blue print is the same as the satin boxes tho, they weigh the same so I'm sure it's fine.. TV 21 matte weighs same as tv21 satin. Most of the models are Ohio built.
Whaaaaaaat I can't believe he did it lololol...now I gotta watch this. Note, thanks to Shane and Matt Pose I sold my PSA sealed units and got a bunch of Perlisten subs...not sad at all! But, I never experienced what Shane did, I enojoyed my PSAs while I had them.
I’m sure you’ve heard the difference. Congrats 🍻
which one from Perlisten ?
I think you already know the answer.
@@doyleshafer d215s?
When do you receive your Ascendo Gear ?
I've had it for a while now.
@@therealshanelee had ? sold or loan end ?
Thanks for sharing
Great Review......
Edge of Tomorrow is a Sub Killer!
You need a JTR or Perlisten😎
That mechanical noise was worse than any port noise I’ve ever heard. Doesn’t seem they’re up to the hype they’ve been getting
thanks for the review. PSA does have a cult following and I'm sure they're fine. But IMO it's the wrong type of driver in too small of a box. Those drivers are tuned for 30hz and up. Pro audio stuff not home theater.
PSA has the driver parameters customized.
Did you see his room response? He gets 115db at 6hz with a single sub! His response above 20hz is atrocious, if room correction is trying to fix that it's going to be gobbling all the headroom up.
@@ass2mouthallday do they though? From what little measurements there are for those drivers in DIY they seem to lose efficiency under 30hz. Thus requiring DVCs and a lot of power and heavy handed DSP to achieve those results. At what expense? No one knows because they’ve never been tested.
@@generynkewicz4871They have similar efficiency below 30hz as any other home theater sub. You don't know shit because its reversed. They have increased sensitivity above 30hz not the other way around. They are xmax limited at lows as any sub is but their xmax is not that poor.
Would try monitor audio subs. I have 2 ma silvers 12” there are incredible and full of high tech so you don’t over load them
Hi Shane, you really should have found a better position for that beast, that response looks really bad.
It was never gonna sound great with that massive wide dip.
Doesn’t matter where I put it. I either get a dip there or several in different places. This is the best spot for this single sub. If I had two I’d get a much flatter response. I wasn’t dropping that much money for two though. Im baffled as to why folks think after several months with it and with almost 40 or so different subwoofer reviews. I wouldn’t know where to place a sub. I also have a two channel setup I test these with. It’s a nice sub but it’s got one main issue as shown in the video. Placement isn’t fixing that.
If that's the best response you can get, maybe you should reach out to some of your more experienced buddies for some help.
@@saulmcgill-ws5hy my previous reply works for this comment too. But hey. Thanks for watching. Cheers 🍻
@@therealshanelee please don't take this the wrong way, I appreciate your reviews. Maybe show a few extra response sweeps and less clips of you watching movie scenes? Peace ✌️
@@saulmcgill-ws5hy RUclips is a free platform anyone can use to make videos. Feel free to shoot them how you'd like them done. 🍻
Yeah, with that much output on the low end and that HUGE dip, you obviously did not have that placed in the best spot for your room. Of course when you have gain to compensate for that null you will overdrive it at the lower frequencies. That null is not sub and 1000% room/placement related. Also I assume the vast majority that would spend this kind of money on a sub would have a receiver of basic room correction. Room correction would tamper that low end peaks so it wouldn't be over driven by the poor room placement and therefore sound much better. Your poor choices didn't give the sub a proper opportunity and therefore your review is disingenuous.
It’s my personal sub. Except for this video I use it 100% calibrated. It still bottoms out. What else you got for me?
@@therealshanelee You are either less capable/knowledgeable in doing setup/calibration than you present to be or I have no idea what your motives are. Where do you have it and what are your room measurements after calibration. Calibration would cut that low end peaks out to get you a flatter response. A flatter response will prevent that driver from motor noise.
No it will not. Trust me I've tried. If you all can't take constructive criticism on a short coming of a product I don't know what else to tell you. And please tell me. What do YOU think the "agenda " might be as you say. Humor me.
@@therealshanelee No Agenda? Prove it! Since you get review subs in all the time, send yours to your buddies at Audioholics (which may still be bias supporting you but at least they have a scientific reputation to keep) and get anechoic scientific measurements. That sub making drive noise like that is purely by you not having it setup or calibrated properly in your room. You are driving the lower frequencies too hard trying to compensate for your room null.
Great job and know to cancel my order! 😂
Oh no 🤦🏻♂️😂
@@therealshanelee it’s ok Iv got the 15in ported and it does the same thing. Lol
Now what to get next maybe a JTR 18in or wait and see that your getting next to review. 😎👍
🤣
@@HPMIKE55 go for the JTR. I just upgraded to the JTR Captivator 2400. Far and away the best bass I’ve ever experienced and I’ve owned Seaton, SVS, Velodyne, Paradigm, Martin Logan, you name it!
I just need something that can go LOW and CLEAN instead of insanely loud. I listen to a lot of pipe organ music.
Imagine being a Patreon member for at least 3 years and not mentioned in the wall of members and patreons...
Are you sure? I cut and pasted the entire list 🤔
You’re right. I missed an entire page. Doh 🤦🏻♂️ I’ll get you all the next video.
Are you looking to sell it? I'm interested.
I came back after a year to see id everyone is still bashing the karaoke driver?
when's the Ascendo speaker review coming?
I wonder if a ported version will be better ❓❓
Possibly
we need a Paradigm XR13 Review, looks like such a beast.
I have two of these. Good sound not enough output for HT. More music oriented subs.
Focus is a bit off at the start
Shane . I have been watching your reviews on many products and subwoofers as well as your movie reviews on audio and visual. It appears to me that you have a very different perspective on subwoofer reviews I respect your opinions on all products because you have very high end equipment to test any product to its limit. having saying this I also watch many other you tube reviewers and podcasts my question is many other reviewers would have so many positive reviews on many of the subwoofers you review do you think it is more of the listeners preference or do you review more critically ? the subwoofer that I always hear is the end game sub is typically J.T.R and although I have not seen a review from you on any J.T.R product is their a reason behind this or is it you are just not a big fan.
They're far to expensive for me to buy and try just to get a couple thousand views on a RUclips video. This sub was co-founded with my Patreon and RUclips membership subscribers. I'd have no issues trying one out but as of right now they are too pricey. I'm sure they are very capable subs.
@@therealshanelee you can afford a d215 @9000$ though?
@@TheMfowler14 you think I buy everything in review? Is this your first time on my channel?
Most of the smaller internet direct sellers rarely send out subs for review, but some like PSA are strictly against it, hence why Shane had to purchase the sub to review it. This is actually one of the reasons why I flat out refuse to buy from PSA. It looks as though Tom has something to hide if he doesn’t want his products reviewed and tested. Reminds me of Bose. That is my personal take on it anyway.
@@brucecarter6205 There is nothing to hide, I own dual TV21s, came from dual svs pb 3000s, upgraded to dual pb16s, then finally to TV21s. The pb16s are completely outclassed by the TV21s. My top compression sweep in a 6500 cu ft room on concrete is 120db+ 14hz -100hz. 122db at 16hz with 3 percent distortion. 118db at 13hz. Because my room is massive I barely get any room gain, only a nice bump 14-18hz. So there is no faking this output thanks to a small room, its legit. In comparison to the PB16s they have 9-10db more output 10-13hz then the pb16s, got knows how much over 50hz and roughly similar 20-35hz. They provide huge midbass slam I never got with the other subs. I use the PB16s as a reference point because they are measured by audioholics and can allow for a reasonable guess at CEA numbers since I have them positioned identically to the PB16s. That being said the 'loose limiter' makes these subs not friendly to newbies or those wanting a plug and play experience. A mini dsp is going to be ideal to get the best out of them, I do think they need to be limited below 10hz a bit. Anyways there is a reason the PSA sub is the most viewed thread on AVS forums, its not due to bad subwoofers.
Seems they really decided to let the output run wild to wow people and then just didn't bother with distortion-control or limiters on the low-end. I'm sure that if you don't go to the limits with it it'll sound fine and run fine, but it's evidently not a sub you'd want to just set up with someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
1920 rms rating? Why didn't they just say 1900 or 2000 😂
Great review! That’s one ugly sub…but the price to performance to price ratio is damn good! I like the Rythmiks better tho!
it’s a pro audio subwoofer. it isn’t designed for crazy movies.
Precious Sound Audio much😂
Wow this subwoofer has no bass through my iphone speakers! What a waste of money!
PSA subwoofer is perfect for a home stereo / home dj set up.