Deere 820 2-cyl Diesel Pony Motor Fuel System Upgrades
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2019
- In this video I go over me installing a sediment bowl and filter for the pony motor on my 1957 John Deere 820. After the install I show taking apart and cleaning up the carb and then the series of adjustments after install to get it running smooth and steady both under load and at idle. The little V4 starting engine is a screamer. It smokes a bit because I am running it on fuel mixed with 2 stroke oil to provide cylinder lube for while the engine sits for long periods. I also do some playing around just to see how slow I can get the big diesel to idle. Being just a 2cyl and that they aren't dynamically balanced by design they won't go super slow but the slower it will go the better tuned for even power from cylinder to cylinder it is. I found I could get it to idle ok at about 450rpm but the governor would drift. At 500rpm I could get it to run smooth. I enjoy the sound of the big diesel knocking away and I hope you do too! Thanks for watching and I hope you enjoy!!
PS I would like to do project 100 dynoed horsepower at factory rpm with this tractor. If that project is of interest to others I might persu it sometime. I know I have always heard about it but have never actually seen one dyno 100hp at pto speed but I think it could be done. 
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It's good to hear people of your mechanical skill level talk about failures. Like the POR 15 on the tractor tank. Here at the home shop I have had a few projects self destruct because of my choices.
Keeping one running is tough enough. Got to love the old pony motor. Thanks for the videos Brian. That's a neat piece of equipment 👍
Hard to believe this whole electric starter thing ever caught on...
Glow plugs...who needs them.
Watch Wes Work sheesh, kids these day are spoiled with their pony motors and electric starters... back in my day you had to crank it yourself and if you did it wrong you broke your arm.
Volcker1929 Sheesh, kids during your days used smoke signals to communicate. Far too easy with Internet today pfff...
*smirk smirk*
Right! :-)
Back in our day we didn't have fancy inflated rubber wheels cushioning our ride. We had solid iron ones and considered ourselves lucky they weren't wood. And enclosed cab?.. Luxury!....
Lol. Check out four yorkshiremen video. :-)
torque350hp the four yorkshiremem is gold! I had never seen it, thanks.
That is my favorite tractor color. Time to resupply the distillery I guess.
Gotta say I've never seen a 820 with a cab on it. I would like to see it get 100+ hp on the PTO, looks like she's done some work, with all the front wheel weights.
The cab is factory, but yeah they aren't real common. :-) 20+ years ago I used to antique tractor pull it. It was a lot of fun until they did away with the heavy weight class because I won 95% of them. The front wheel weights were necessary to make it pull good.
Pony engines were one of most abused engines on the farm. Some did not have an adjustable throttle, started cold at full throttle and were shut down at full throttle without a cool down period. Brian's sounds very good.
Love them old 2 cyl diesels. As a kid I spent alot of time on Grandpa's 730 Deisel plowing and working ground.
It would be great to see the 820 do some tillage.
Our neighbor has a few of those, both pony and full electric start ... he probably has at least one of anything John Deere, they all get periodic use. The hand start sidewinder "B" tractors usually come out during hay season.
Nice to see pure heat out of diesel exhaust , that's was way they should run
Would love to see some videos of the harvest and other tractor work. Have a great weekend!!!
This tractor's both engines run like new ones...
Most newer gasoline has ethanol added to it, this is a pain since it contains a small amount of humidity, real deadly to metals after some long sitting times. Should keep the corn for good whiskey, not for running engines... 😨
Can't hide from the "Supervisor", even when working far behind the shop... 😎👍
Supervisor always tracks down the help no matter where you hide. :-)
@@bcbloc02 That's what makes Bailey such a good supervisor.
@@bcbloc02 The NOSE!
Neodymium magnets inside the fuel tank attract all the rust to them. Speedometer cable core with a power drill will clean out fuel lines. 10 micron rated fuel filters either before the fuel pump or carbs on gravity feed systems keeps the sediment out of the fuel pump check valves and carb needle and seats. I have even stuck neodymium magnets with holes in the middle over both ends of fuel filters.
Good tips! Thanks.
Yes! I enjoy watching a deer running in a field.
I used to own a D2 caterpillar that had a pony motor, it had the same issues with the fuel system. The tank was heavily rusted and a former owner coated the tank but it started peeling before I got it. I was a pain in the butt to get the tank cleaned up!
Apart from size and color, it might be mistaken for a fine swiss watch.
Reminds me of the donkey motors on the Cat dozers i used to work on years ago . Pull start on the D4's , Crank start on the D7's but at least the D9's had an electric start one !
D8s had an electric starter for the pony motor... but ours always sat long enough between jobs the batteries were dead and had to be crank started anyway.
@@weshowe51 Our 2 D8's had a direct electric luckily , but i remember a customers D9G that i used to do a lot of work on you needed 3 arms & 1 leg to reach the decomp lever !
@@swanvalleymachineshop I ran an 8-H that was worn OUT! I always let the pony warm up at idle, turning the big motor over easy while I drank a cup of coffee. When the coffee was done it was time to spin it up and I flipped the decompression over with my foot. The pony would foul a plug if you didn't baby it but I don't crank anything hammered anyway.
A whole new channel, "Brian's Farm".
"click - click" !!
Love It
Thanks for sharing your tractor life and Baily with us.
Like seeing the old tractor run. Would enjoy seeing it work a little bit too.
Brian. A little trick i have used is to put a piece of copper tubing about an inch long in the hole in the sediment bowl that goes into the fuel tank. Keeps the crap off the bottom of the tank from going in.
Hey Bailey. Oh and Brian too😊
Beautiful tractor. We've owned an 830 with electric start for many years. Runs perfect but isnt as pretty as yours. Thanks for showing one from when they still made real machines.
Love the old tractors, even the green ones. Have a 3 cyl IH diesel, has started in -5, with ether... I'd like to see your chisel plow in action.
That Project of getting 100 HP would be interesting Brian
Nice that you have equipment that doesn't require a laptop to diagnose and retune. Thanks for the video Brian .
Cool to see an expert at work. Thanks for sharing this.
Another great video! Passing the time on lunch break.
Nice to see you get to play a little. Looking forward to seeing the farm work videos.
Thanks for sharing.
Love the mini-torque wrench. I have one of those too. Old school. 😁
Thanks,
John
Love the Johnnie popper Brian!
Interesting video Brian, thank you. It would be interesting to see these machines work the field.
Great stuff Brian !! Thank you !!! I started on Coal Surface Mines in late 60S . We had a Cat D8 and Cat D9 with pony engines . The Diesel engines lasted many more hours , since you could use the pony to turn the Diesel until it had good engine oil pressure , and then through the compression release to fire the diesel . Thank you for jogging this old man's memory !!! Be safe my friend and God bless you and yours !!!! Eddy
I would love to have one of those old Pony start D9's!
All the ones in my area ( Southwestern Virginia ) have been scrapped out ! In the late 70S , Caterpillar came out with an update which replaced the Pony Engine with an electric starter . The starter bolted up to the rear housing, a direct replacement for the Pony. And the batteries went on the left side of the operator's seat . ( The same place the later D9G had them ) We never did update because the update cost more than the D9 was worth ! Lol !! The Pony outlasted the Dozer anyway. Side note, when my Dad worked on the Strip mines , early 50S , he ran the first D9 in our area ! It had cable blade ! I have a large black and white picture that Carter Machinery made of him operating it . I pray I have not talked to much !!! God bless !!!!! Eddy
Thanks for sharing this Brian, I love old John Deere 2-lungers, and the diesel ones are even more "thumpy!"
Weld up an aluminum replacement tank. Brayn would love to see the 820 plowing
Great piece of iron. That tractor sound like it could pull the shop down. Maybe we can get it doing sone work
Thanks for the video.
Thanks for sharing Brian! The 820 looks to be in nice shape. The 830 is the first one I was lucky enough to drive then I got the bug. Owned . BR.AR.B.and two D's.
I have always been mostly a fan of the diesels but have fooled with some of the gassers too. :-)
Great look old tractor, got a uncle that has 2 gas burners he bought new, that was when they broke ground before planting he said he could burn a barrel of gas in a day I guess a farmers day can to cant.
couldn't wait for you to start the diesel just to remember the sound., early 80's i had an R then added the 820,both with ugly cabs but still better than without,the R ran hard all day on a gallon of fuel an hour. actually sounded better than the 820 but couldn't do the same work as the big girl .thanks for the memories
Yep my 820 will do a lot of work on very little fuel. It is way more efficient than my 6030 but it won't match what that big dog will pull.
They are screamers. The 1st time I saw one spun up I was thinking 'Go ahead and blow it up just because you can' but it held. Yours runs a lot better that that one. And of Napier Deltic could crank out a thousand h.p. out of a turboed 4-banger at 900 r's you ought to be able to crank a hundred out of that 2-banger. I'll watch! Good old Baily!
very cool tractor..
You learned that torque wrench from elderly iron. Lol
Been using that wrench for years. :-)
@@bcbloc02 Best one I've ever had.
Awesome!
Great channel! Great tractor. I still have a scar on my knuckle from when we set the head off of it and back on 20 some years ago. I clearly need to come see the shop soon.
Heh, probably more like 30 years ago. lol
Aviation gas will last years without going bad, great for equipment that is not used a lot.
But not readily available for me.
@@bcbloc02 AMEN unless a plane crashes.
Hey BigBloc
That’s one nice JD
Never seen a tach like that b4
First one I saw was on a Ford nna jubalee
Frank Deegan
wat is a Ford nna.. some yankiee tractor?
the old girl runs good . nice
G Day Brian, boy she is a nice straight old tractor by the look of it. I have has success with a tank liner called Redkote. My supplier gets it from the USA. Anything old tractor is a great video for me, lol.
It is in much better shape now than it was when I got it 30 years ago!
@@bcbloc02 I'd agree 100%
Pony motors... the red headed step child that gets thrown a hot supper then stuffed back in the closet. We sealed up an old gas tank years ago without issue. Followed the directions to the letter thought, including the acid wash. Can't remember which repair system we used. Possibly came from Steiner, or POR, but no issues with it so far.
I followed the instructions too but it didn't pan out on this job, at least not long term. I think it was ok for 3 or 4 years then started flaking.
The Carb is a ZENITH TU4C also used on the pony motors of the CAT D2-D6 tractors JD and CAT still have some parts for them or you can go to the carb and magneto shop to get parts for the CAT ponies
You can make a stand pipe to go into the tank so you don’t take fuel from the tank bottom.Just a suggestion Thanks
External flywheel. I admire your persistence with old equipment.
Sorry, that is not the flywheel but rather the belt pulley. The early twin cylinder JDs had an open flywheel on the left side and were used for hand starting as opposed to a crank. I doubt anyone could hand start this diesel because of the high compression. I also love Brian's persistence.
i think ive only ever seen 2 820s, here in australia, neither had cabs. a friend had a 730, thats was a pretty big tractor anyway. very cool
I think the 820 might have been the largest rubber wheeled tractor in the world when it was new.
Done the old dipstick oiler trick many times in the field on stuff like cultivator bolts. Those old 820 tractors are tough pullers. Don't see many with a cab. Yours looks real clean. Yes please do some footage of it in the field. Would love to see it running. I am about to build the engine on my B Deere. Got the main bearings back from a babbit house (Harts machine) in Cecil Ohio. They did a great job.
It was one of the first restorations I ever did. I fixed it up back in the mid 90's.
Going to work On my "B" this winter, got any severe mods to make it a puller? HayHud out.
Cat dozer I ran you had to pull start the pony motor. No fancy electric starter. I must be old. Lol
I think the model R's you could get a pull rope starter for. The Deere stuff was always a bit more deluxe than Caterpillar. :-)
I didn't get exactly what this setup was early in the video cause I thought this was only done on big engines. And I didn't think it was very old a machine. Still pretty much works thought. :-)
Nice ! THX!
Good un!
I ran a POR 15 treatment inside my backhoe tank, used the marine clean before hand was an etchant/cleaned but haven’t checked back to see if it’s flaked off, been a few years now. Thanks for showing us the start procedure on the old girl, wish I had a pony motor on the old imperial super diesel, looks like I just need to crank it a bit harder eh? :-)
Can always just find a big hill to park it on. :-)
Haha well it’s a stationary engineer, so only real benefit of parking it up on a hill would be as a warning to all the other recalcitrant engines in the district, seeing the flames when I set fire to it in disgust!
An old timer told me when it’s -10 out you start the pony, pull both levers back and go in n have coffee and let her warm up.
“Kreem” fuel tank liner works good I’ve heard, Harley shops have it. Or Red Kote. Used that on a 620
I started mine at minus 40F once and it took about a half tank of gas thru the pony to get it warm enough to turn the big engine over, once I could finally get it spinning decent it started first roll over on compression with the fuel on. :-)
Wow
Brian it's the Ethanol, same problem on my side of the country..
Should have sent that carb to Mustie. 😁
LOL I was thinking Mustie1 meets Squatch253
I think I have the same brand torque wrench!!! LOL I can have my trailer hooked up and be at your place tomorrow to pick that up if you are ready to sell!!! That is my dream Johnny Popper right there!! I have a 1956 Model 50, but have always wanted a 70 series or 80!
I hope you have a good heavy trailer because this thing weighs 10500lbs. :-)
@@bcbloc02 38' tri axle gooseneck and a f-350 :D
Click click 😜🔧I like that 👍🏻
Ergonomically speaking, that doesn't appear to be one of JD's best cabs for access. However, I did notice it has a 4 stage A/C system: 1 door and 3 operable windows. I would venture a guess and say, used pony motors for that tractor are not a bane on the market. Another thumbs up video!
The cab is not the greatest but it sure beats the heck out of sitting out in the wind doing field work when it is cold out! It really does make a big difference in comfort when its 50 or below. Only drawback to it is it is pretty loud since it catches all the transmission and hydraulic noise.
@@bcbloc02 I agree entirely, I started driving tractors when cabs weren't offered and the "sissies" put on a "Comfort Cover" in the winter.
Any value in replacing the fuel tank with one that won't rust?
You can tell the tractors belong to a mechanic....they are missing the tin. Gotta couple around here that look like that too.
Nice work. Our 830 is electric start. When we got it from my grandfather it had fluid and 3 sets of iron weights. Don't run it much it pumps engine oil to the rear end. I've had very good luck with sealing tanks with RedKote.
You should fix it so you can use it, its way better than letting them sit. :-)
Great work Brian. I grew up with a “B” and “60”. Nice to hear the old 2 cylinders run. My neighbor has a “R” he plows with. We hear him one half mile away.
I've always wondered where the concept of attempting to adjust for the slowest stable idle derived from. I know I've spent way too many hours trying to get various engines to achieve a stable idle at the lowest RPM possible, and no idea why other than it interests me! :)
Basically it's just a "let's see what we can do" kind of thing. It really serves no useful purpose and in some cases can be harmful due to reduced oil and coolant flow at extreme low rpms. I'm just as guilty of it as anybody else, but theres no real good reason to do it.
Love the click type combination torque wrench. I've got a set of those too. Comes in real handy.
How long can you let those pony motors run before they overheat? This is the longest I've ever seen someone let one run... don't have much time around the old 2 cyl Deere's.
It is plumbed into the tractor coooling system so it will run till it runs out of gas no problem at all.
it's also the cold weather warm up and pre-lube system for the big engine.
i"ve been told that one reason some people had problems with the gas pony engines was that they never run them long enough to get the oil fully warmed. They were also the people that would never (or seldom) change the oil in the pony. Brian should know what that can lead to.
Love to see somebody take care of these old tractors, I bought an 820 last winter and I have a few questions for you, if you could help me out.
1- My 820 never seems to get up to operating temperature unless it is working pretty hard in the field. Is this normal or are the thermostats stuck open? Can dive the tractor down the road for 40 + minutes and the gauge will barely move. The gauge works.
2 - I can't get the tractor to charge. Still original 6v pony start. Had the generator off several times to get fixed, come back good works, charges about 6.5v but after I run the tractor for 1-2 hours it quits working and nobody can figure out why it is doing this. The gauge also works on this one.
3 - When I got the tractor of course the previous owner had the pony motor all messed up ( linkages in wrong spots, wired "wide open" all the time) and I got everything back to original. It runs pretty decent but not like your pony, i think it need some carburetor adjustments. What should I start with and where are they located and what ones do which job?
Thanks got the info it is greatly appreciated, love those old girls and hate to see them be used improperly.
I also have a few videos of me pulling the 820 at the local fairs this year on my channel.... pulls like a champ.
Thanks again.
1.Yes if it is not working mine pretty much putters around in the 140deg range. Even working it hard plowing for hours I have never seen it even remotely get hot, but it can get up to like 170F.
2. If the generator checks ok it is likely wiring or the ammeter itself causing problems. Also of course these are positive ground machines.
3. The big headed screw is the load screw and gets adjusted at full throttle under load for it to run smooth. The little screw in the neck sets your idle mixture and should be adjusted in combination with the low idle stop screw on the butterfly to obtain the proper idle. Each adjustment effects the other some so you have to keep tuning multiple times to get it all right.
@@bcbloc02 Great, thanks for the tips, just gotta wait for the warmer weather to get working on it. As for the generator, when I get the generator back from the shop it works, shows a charge, then about an hour of running it shows nothing. Take the generator back to the shop and they can't get it to charge either. Nobody can figure why the generator keeps dying. Also tried getting a new generator and the same thing happened with it. Now sure if it's tractor or generator related. Thanks for all the help.
Wonderful video. Your tractor can't be old because we're the same age😃. Is the hour meter accurate? If it is then 7144 hrs / 62 years is about 3 weeks use per year. Is this right?
Yes the hours are right. I imagine most all of them were put on it in its first 20 years of life. I don't usually put even 20hours a year on it myself.
Can't get just the mechanical tach/speedometer to last over 450 hours in my 3130. I wonder if the guys who built that 820, (the guys on the assembly line) ever dreamed it would be running 62 years later with over 7000 hrs on it. And the grit of the man in the seat for most of those hours says a lot about those who built this country.
Guy down the roads dad ran a rock quarry. They had a 730 Deere diesel on the irrigation pump there pumping water 24-7. They supposedly rolled the tach over three times and it was finally worn out and in need of overhaul at about 36000hrs.
Need a clamp on that exhaust, it was turning.
It is just sitting up there. I had to have it off to get the hood off to do the work.
your way of putting your finger in this hole shocks me!
Do you use Marvel Mystery oil in the gas? That's good stuff!
I have not. I just use the stihl synthetic 2 stroke mix.
The old cat guys recomend shutting the gas off to the pony motor to prevent diluting the lube oil in the pony motor. I think it is a good idea.
Thans
Yes there is a knob in the cab for shutting the fuel off and I shut it off and let the pony run dry everytime.
We had more than 1 tractor fill the oil pan with gas when the float stuck on the carb.
I'd love to have that pony motor in my lawnmower instead of the crappy old briggs
I am told it used to be popular to use them in midget cars for racing as they make like 30hp. Back in the day that was pretty stout compared to a 12hp kohler about the same size.
@@bcbloc02 If you could crank an old Harley, you could fire a pony, no problem. i had a 68 Electra-glide. NO different than a pony except a rope or a kicker.
We call them donkey engines in the UK, mostly used on much bigger and older stuff though like excavation equipment. Not built to stay cool for long though, only used for seconds until vehicle engine starts...! A two stroke engine, by the looks of the smoke.
V-4 four stroke pony on this one. Brian mentioned he's got some pre-mix in the gas.
I see you left the dirt patina on the carburetor. You wouldn't want a shinny clean carburetor sitting on top of the dirty engine.
Brian - Your pony motor sounds like a Honda! 4 cyl to start 3, sounds about right! Production from 68-73 and built in W. Germany. JD was out sourcing even back then!
www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/0/6/69-john-deere-820.html
Wrong tractor though, mine is this one www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/0/4/47-john-deere-820.html :-)
@@bcbloc02 Ya know, I should have listened to my ears, they knew!
Hey Brian, whats the pony motor for? That's not what runs the tractor is it?
It is to start the big diesel. At the time they didn't have starters with enough torque to reliably do the job.
Is that the same engine as a 730
The pony is the same. The 820 big diesel is 100 more cubes than a 730.
For the size of engine, flywheel, etc, i'm surprised it didn't really like idling much under 500.
I do lots of cussing at carburators and gasoline fuel systems on old equipment.. I've retrofitted more modern (and less gummed) carbs on a lot of my stuff
Well it has to make a full revolution with no power before it gets the double hit again so smooth is not really its thing.
@@bcbloc02 I have a 12HP Hatz diesel, single cylinder, I got it chugging down to 390.. looks like you could spin it by hand faster at that point since the visible pulley is cam driven.. so only 195 RPM there
What does the Pony Motor actually do to start the Diesel?
It cranks it over. In this design it also is tied into the big engines coolant system so it heats the big diesel motor too if i runs long enough. Then the exhaust on the pony runs thru a heat exchanger on the air intake side to warm the incoming air as well. It works very well. If the pony will start I can guarantee you can get the diesel started too. :-)
It is the starter motor
They predate electric starter motors
@@bcbloc02 Thanks for the reply and info very interesting. I enjoy your videos keep up the good work.
On my cat you would engage the starter pinion, then wrap a rope around the starter sheave on the pony. IF it cooperated it would start with one pull, usually took two when cold. Then you let it run and warm up the main until it seemed ready. Next you pulled the compression release on the main and the pony lever to clutch the pony to the starter pinion. Let it turn the main over for a bit to build oil pressure and get the main turning, then give the main some fuel and she would start. That kicked the pinion out and declutched the pony. Shut the gas to the pony off and let it run out of fuel.
@@bcbloc02 "if" the pony will start !
The pony will be a constant problem for you as long as you live. I have my Grandpa's 720 and no matter what you do with the pony it gives constant trouble
😀
put er in the KETCHUP!!!
When you turn off that pony motor you lose 2/3 of your power. By the time those pony motored tractors got started it was time to come in for lunch. IH and their start on gasoline and then switch to diesel was not much better. Oliver diesel tractors started by stepping on the starter pedal and then heading right out to work in the fields. It was amazing that JD stuck with antique designs when others were making much better equipment.
I can have my big engine started in any weather in less than 1 minute with the pony. Try to get a 990 Oliver started in that time when it is 0F outside. Biggest advantage the Deere has is fuel economy. I can do twice the work in a day on 10gallon of fuel than any other tractor of the1960's or older.
@@bcbloc02 Well at least you like Dodge trucks, Mercedes cars and old dogs.... Just having fun with you. I always tell Harley owners that I have a much more modern design 2 cyl powered vehicle, my 1941 JD A. Well I did until some guy with more money than he needed bought it. Keep up the videos and keep Bailey going. My dog checks my welds, at least she does not watch the arc.
Always good to have proper supervision. :-)
@@bcbloc02 She learned to get her nose only close to a hot weld and it only took one time to do so. She does not very closely inspect welds on 2" upset tubing projects as the crap built up inside and outside pipe that has been down the well a couple thousand feet or more stinks like hell and probably she thinks it is dangerous and maybe she has a Geiger counter in her nose as some of it is radioactive enough the salvage yard will at times reject a load of scrap pieces when their counter goes wild. Do not worry much as I have been welding on that stuff since 1957 and are still alive. I will be welding on some today. ";^} A friend says the AEC probably has my stash of a few miles of pipe stacked on my pipe racks tagged as a national threat....
@@bcbloc02 I'm sorry, but the fuel economy was not that great, they didn't burn much fuel because they didn't get much done. I've been around the 720D since 1982 and when it works it burns as much or more fuel then any other diesel
You can tell that you and that tractor have a long history together. She'd probably refuse to run if another pair of hands touched her !
I never saw a 820 wheatland tractor
Now you have. :-)
Was it called a wheatland or standard?
Standard tread was what Deere called them but others would call them wheatlands just kind of depends on the native lingo.
Was there a narrow front or row crop version
Candidate for 6090 FT4 repower?
I want one of the new 18 liter Deere engines. :-)
@@bcbloc02 you'll need more tractor
@@earleclemans4836 900hp and 3500ft lbs should be perfect for some wheel spinning fun. :-)
@@bcbloc02 are you talkkng about the Liebherr?
@@earleclemans4836 no Deere has a new 18l motor of their own that came out last year.
Is the other jd a 5020?
No it is a 6030