Study says almost all car companies sabotaging EV transition, Japan is worst
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2024
- Study says almost all car companies sabotaging EV transition, Japan is worst
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#toyota #sabotaging #evnews #tesla #factory
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They are no better than the tobacco lobby
Yes, so many of us crave the EV experience, but find ourselves blocked by evil conspirators at every turn- but here are a few things we can do to get around that.
Fill half your gas tank with rocks. This will increase weight and reduce range. (add a few more with every fill up)
Avoiding going below 20% or 80% of what is left of your capacity.
Stay below 65 mph on the interstate when everyone else is doing 80
Plan every trip meticulously, to include stopping every 200 miles to spend half an hour at the back of a lonely parking lot.
Disconnect your alternator, this will force you to ration unnecessary luxuries like heat and ac.
Buy a battery charger to plug in every night, (and insist on paying several thousand dollars for it.)
Paint over all your gauges, remove all the controls, and replace with a cheap ipad so you have to navigate menus for every previously intuitive function.
When you sell the car, accept only half what you are offered.
Same kind of fraud.
@@user-jb2om7cm8m - To hell with non-free enterprise businesses (like new car dealers). Can't wait until EV's and Direct-to-Consumer auto sales puts these parasites out of business. Wouldn't you agree user-jb2om?
@@user-jb2om7cm8m. How often do you drive 200 miles in a day?
@@user-jb2om7cm8m That was totally lame, you sound like an old timer defending the horse and cart.
The last gasps of a dying industry.
Oh come on, my fun car I drive is a 1992 325i BMW 5 speed, inline slant 6-cylinder, standard transmission. I guess you prefer to be driven. I drive thank you. Call me a motorhead.
And the Anglo-American hegemony.
@@AtomicHermit /They were just giving Toyota a hard time, now we have to give up truly classic cars? What will a 30-year-old Tesla be worth? I had to look up hegemony, that is qualifying statement for the Germans.
@@Gregorio-27must be embarrassing being so out-of-touch, when Tesla soccer mums burn you off with the kids in the back laughing.
@@Phariseehunter A BYD Seal or Xiaomi SU7 will easily do the same to the BMW.
This doesn'tsurprise me at all.
What does surprise me, though, is the vast number of useful idiots they have recruited to help them.
What's really amazing to me, is how they convinced all those EV-only companies to sabotage themselves, lay off workers and go bust ! They made it look uncannily like nobody wanted to buy their lousy products.
I will happily give you a ride in my EV and you can decide for yourself whether I am an idiot. 🙂
@@grahamf695 I think you have misunderstood me. :)
@@DavidPlayfair oh silly me. :-))
@@grahamf695 No problem. It happens. :)
Not a surprise.. In the USA, once Ford and GM decided to back off last year, the whole media and political negative news cycle and FUD on EVs and in particular on Tesla accelerated. the negative noise is at times deafening. It will take time to cut through this noise. You don’t have this issue in China. Europe is in between with governments blowing hot and cold towards EVs. Ultimately, EVs will prevail. The cost advantage of EVs over ICE cars will result in more consumers buying EVs. It will just take longer.
Ordinary people don't care about climate change and carbon emission. The prices of vehicles are the key for more EV adoptions.
Also the range. Before evs every car that you bought could do at least 300-400km in city and at least 500-600 outside.
Normal people don't care about acceleration or retractable door handles, we want a normal car with reasonable price.
Fueling speed is another thing . The climate has always been changing they can't perdict the weather so how can you believe they can perdict the climate
@@marvenlunn6086this is a silly take. Human caused climate change is beyond doubt.
@@eugenec7130That is why governments must use the tax system to make EVs more attractive. It is the right thing to do in the long run and our grandchildren will thank us, otherwise they will curse us
if you're not on top, you strive to improve. Once you're on top, you work to stop anyone else taking your position.
That sounds like the days of Robber Barons .
The fossil fuel industry needs to keep as many people as possible hooked on their drug. With enough people still addicted when "Peak Oil" arrives, the supply and demand curves will change radically and the fossil fuel industry will make more money in one week that they now make in six months. They know this is coming and much sooner than most people believe. They are already injecting water into old low producing wells to get the last few drops out of them. Fossil fuel consumption has increased significantly since 2000 and continues to accelerate every year.
@@Tron-Jockey All wrong, fossil fuel use is decreasing so much that the air we breath is already measurably cleaner. Peak oil will never arrive because we burned the other guys oil before our own and have enough for hundreds of years even if we did not stop using it. 90% of all the oil from known resources in the U.S. is still here because we couldn't pump it out before now. The oil industry is running on borrowed time and they know it. The old wells had only 10% of the oil pumped out of them because we didn't have fracking until recently and couldn't get it out of the ground.
That's what the US is doing to China, which will inevitably fail.
If you ever visit a large Chinese city where majority of the cars are EVs, it's an experience to behold. The once heavy smog and pollution with crazy noisy streets are replaced with clean air and eerily quiet roads.
And unlike us...... They have direct access to legislators and the media.
they do the right thing! our power grid would collapse if only 50% of today's ICE would change on EV. All would charge in the evening after work, exactly when most are using energy for cooking, bath, TVs, computer. Aside that, first we need to make sure that the energy doesn't come from fossil power plants, otherwise is everything a nonsense, then we need to upgrade the grid, then the infrastructure and only then start to mass-produce this EVs! the recycling network is still a dream, like most of today's electronic devices end in Africa, despite we pay for recycling, now Lithium is even more expensive to recycle, you think it will not end in Africa too?? aside that, a study said, that Lithium deposits are lasting for max 50 yeas, some say 30, depends on various factors, what's next?? I think we are creating a new mess for the next generation!
@@Ezekiel903 You are simply wrong, dead wrong , and that's where the car companies that are responsible will be, dead. Check facts yourself before spreading FUD. I am a former grid operator and I know what the grid can do and the changes that are being made are needed for completely different reasons than charging electric cars, which is incidental to the real use of the grid. Renewables dictate how the grid will operate from now and into the future, there is a tremendous amount of power that has to be moved from one place to another depending on where the generation is coming from and going to. loads such as EV charging are going to be a necessity to use the system efficiently. We will be using much more power as we change over to an all electric economy. Trains and trucks will run on electric power as well as all industrial processes. When the cars need charging, not at hours when people are going home, but late at night, other uses like cooking and air conditioning and factory use will be off line. Right now we are building 62 new nuclear plants in the U.S. for example. These will need to be run at a high power level needing electrical load at night, besides charging batteries for the peak use in the daytime. Solar is already supplying more power than can be used in Calif. and Texas during certain daylight hours.
@@Ezekiel903 You are good at recycling: you have recycled several well-worn and discredited stories right here
@@Ezekiel903 Even if the power comes from fossil fuel, EVs are still far more energy efficient than ICEs. The charging peak at night issue can be resolved by having a spare battery charging during the day using solar. Re lithium, a lot of EV batteries today do not need lithium.
@@davidinkster1296 which one? Lithium reserves? Energy grid? or that 90% of electric devices are ending in Africa, despite we pay for recycling?
The Car Company execs should take a walk on the seashore to watch the tide come in. Then they might understand the word “inevitable”
I have been fortunate to have been in Antarctica and the Arctic Circle. The air quality was amazing. Breathing was clearly better. The lack of noise was amazing. It is a shame that more people haven’t experienced this . If they did, they would realize what these industries are doing to us. I will never drive an ICE vehicle again.
❤❤❤
@@user-nf4st5kn6l Moved from a city to a town of 1K in the US. After a month away from the city I was amazed at the poor air quality I was living in.
You will never drive an EV in the polar regions , EVER . That is a fact that will never change.
@@mikewallace8087 so?
@@mikewallace8087 there are several EVs on Svalbard at least... And this last winter up in the north of Norway EVs still started at lower temperatures than ICE vehicles.
Reminds me of the tobacco lobby battle all over again.
PR firms know what works; their product is doubt. In fact, they undermine capitalism. How can an informed citizenry exist in this environment!? 🤷♂️
What amazes me it's too many people put too much trust into the free market there is no free market. There was he wouldn't have a housing problem or all the other issues that we have. It's all about the money.
Big tobacco, oil, agriculture and pharmaceutical…. The same playbook. All working to maximize short term profit at our expense.
they employ the same lobbyists and PR groups
Tobacco didn't have to battle the UN global agenda.
No surprise I was saying this for some years now. They are afraid to make a good car which doesn’t need a lot of maintenance and regular service appointments
And what do you do, when the battery kicks off... And burns your house down?
@@user-cd9ns7hw1y you have your phone with a battery and you are not concerned about burning your house down - right
The problem that the legacy auto makers have is that there are new entrants, like Tesla and many Chinese companies, that can outcompete them.
The market for EVs is limited by the number of people willing to put up with the BS that comes from owning one and can afford a place that allows them to charge at home. Of course, people who have drunk the EV kool-aid can't seem to comprehend why so many people want nothing to do these types of vehicle. And that does not even get into the geo-political problems of letting a key industry be taken over by a hostile power who has promised to start WW3 if its neighbors don't hand over whatever territory they decide they want.
Are you failing to see this is by choice? They wanted to stay in their comfort zone as efficiency fell over time. Now they are in trouble.
Fighting against the trend towards EVs could actually make them more, rather than less, vulnerable to Tesla and the Chinese.
Ford Chevy and Chrysler have been reduced to making only monster ICE pickups and SUVs.
@@freeheeler09 ridiculous , big vehicle sales are below ground . The prices are very high. They sit at dealers for hundreds of days . I see many used car dealers with many big ICE vehicles in their front rows. But I still see some people with huge 4X4 's with energy gobbling tires rolling down the roads.
Ok THIS , Viking, is exactly where all of what you thought was media bias - is actually coming from. Japanese automakers spend massive amounts of money advertising, and they have sway in some publications but the car companies were behind it all along. Good work!
Japan has good mass transit and doesn't need EVs for its home market. Japanese automakers build for a global market where the infrastructure is best for hybrids. Charging networks are woefully inadequate globally.
If EVs have far less parts, and the tech of making a motor spin while connected to a battery isn't at all complex. Why are they having a hard time making money off of them? I don't understand what the problem is.
That's the problem. Dealers make an inordinate profits on maintenance & repair work on ICE vehicles, that are inherently complex and costly to keep on the road after the first 2-3 years. Dealerships hate EVs, because their stream of cash dries up after the sale of the vehicle. Answer is to sell EVs direct from the factory to the customer and authorize repair shops to repair those vehicles. A separate division would need to be spun off for that, IMO. That is another reason Tesla has the market share in EVs. Also, regarding insurance... After an insurer declares the EV is a "total", that company takes the vehicle back and sells off parts, namely the propulsion battery pack. That covers a lot of the write off. China has huge EV sales because where China may have issues on many of its government policies, their government recognizes that it has little "oil" and a billion Chinese. All of them driving petrol cars can't be good. Therefore, the freedoms to drive what you want is overruled by practical necessity. Hence, EV "coercion" , to keep the Oil Companies out of their hair.
It's the batteries.
Part of it is aerodynamics, part weight, factory efficiency and cost, cost, cost. The traditional supply chain the legacy automakers use will not work to keep costs very low. Plus, extreme automation is needed and high factory utilization, which means high sales numbers of just a couple of models. Ford realized this over a century ago when asked about color choice for the model T, he famously said, “ They can have any color they want, as long as it’s black.” Point being it’s a completely different animal - test drive one and you’ll see what I mean.
@@shahinizadpanah6833 Caveat: right now it's the batteries, but mostly for those that refuse to purchase Chinese batteries. Chinese battery manufacturers are years ahead in both production optimization and battery tech itself. With the current prices for Chinese-made LFP battery packs it should already cost less to make an EV than to make an ICE car.
And batteries are quickly improving in both price and energy density. By 2030 I suspect the Chinese ICE car industry will have died out due to being unable to compete on price. Right now China's ICE car industry is already in life support due to losing half its market in just a few years, with manufacturers like Jeep or Mazda leaving the country and many plants running at reduced capacity or even abandoned.
Another funny thing: car part manufacturing is a high volume, low margin business that is easily disrupted by diminishing demand. If, or when, EVs take a large enough share of the market, the fall in demand for ICE parts will force their manufacturers to either raise prices or go bankrupt - which should make ICE cars even less competitive against EVs.
@@roncarguy6361 Funny thing about Chinese dealerships: those that insisted on ICE cars saw their revenues drop sharply and many are even closing down.
Hmmm... the question to ask is who has the most to lose if EVs proliferate? Big Oil & the traditional auto industry!
I don't blame them, no one want's them.
Thank you Sam for keeping us updated on the unconscious, screwball, anti-environmental car companies like Toyota! This is truly frightening how little folks know or care about our life support system. Peace
It's not just Toyota
In the mean time, BYD is quickly taking over the EV market.
Not true, only in their homemarket and with huge back-up of Chinese authorities....
BYD are laughable Chinese garbage
@@avdp9095True. EV market outside China is only about11% of world market. China removed subsidies for EV purchase last year, yet sales are still growing.
@@Zerpentsa6598 they subsidise the manufacturers directly with billions, to disrupt Europe. However still nihil sales.
Only in Russia sells Byd among other Chinese brands very well because all foreign carmanufacturers left. China has no problem with the war in Ukrain.
But no spare parts
They're the Dinosaurs fighting mass extincion.....🦖
Modern car emissions aren't a problem.
It was before fuel injection and catalytic converters.
Ford lost $100,000 on every BV it sold. That's not sustainable.
Are they just supposed to go out of business because you want to force them to make a product that losses them money?
Let the free market decide winners and losers.
Regardless of whether or not in the future one of your relatives die of lung cancer caused by diesel cars and you children poisened by lead in paint and other toxic chemicals emitted from coal power plants (cause it’s cheap fuel), just so the company that makes the most profits wins? That is your logic? Really?
Ever heard of “Love Canal”? Look it up, Please……
I don’t agree I think it’s the cost of batteries and the lack of infrastructure that is slowing down EV adoption. The car companies are dragging their feet because the governments are dragging their feet in making the infrastructure changes.
A large part of the country/government's income relies on the traditional car industry (mining and fuels) both directly and indirectly.
This started with making EV ugly or weird looking on purpose so they would not be popular. Even something as simple as the BMW baby blue stripe is an attempt to reduce demand. Automakers think this is clever and consumers won't even understand why they didn't buy the car but we do. They have always done the same thing with lower priced version of gas models to force buyers who care what it looks like up the line to the loaded one.
Big oil is gradually being replaced by "big battery". They'll rip everyone off too.
very good points!
Goodbye to those companies...I will not buy any EV from those ICE motivated companies. Only Tesla, Polestar, BYD from now on (perhaps Hyundai and Kia)
I suggest you consider adding Nio /Onvo to your list
@@stevehale4712Why would anyone support the CCP?
I have 2004 and 2016 Prius and Toyota totally disappointed me where the MPG remained unchanged. They got too comfortable .
Do not underestimate the nearly impassable hurdle for legacy brands to transition:
- all are heavily indebted
- they are assemblers of outsourced component production which imposes a contractual hurdle for continuous optimization
- their designs are not weight optimized which is essential for an EV: Less efficient car may consume for instance 10L gas more, but that would translate to doubling the battery pack in EV
- EV are also transitioning to SDC (Software Defined CAR) and most legacy brands lack software expertise
So trying to get to the point of current Tesla technology and production would imply:
- selling EV for years at a loss, while eating into the still profitable ICE
- having to restructure their business model towards vertical integration
- shedding their red tape infested organizational structure
So by now most legacy brands have concluded they are not going to make that transition and settle for ICE while it lasts or try to take refuge in the less price sensitive luxury niche be it ICE or EV.
Good points!
Ford for example last year made half it's profit off their debt. That's how car finance works. If that's your opener I skip the rest.
Only the best and most flexible and innovative OEMs will survive.
My EV is as good as or better than a Tesla. The hurdles are not that high. Chinese makers have done it.
@@rogerphelps9939 Actually the Chinese government has done it. SASAC with the power to move money to where it helps China the most is unbeatable. Imagine if the US took Billions from other industries and simply gave it to Tesla. Or took a factory away from Ford/GM/Stallantis whatever and gave it to Fisker. SASAC helped out Xiaomi in obtaining its factories from another entity.
Wait 6 years from now when high quality, affordable Chinese EVs start to take over the sedan market and the big 2 1/2 in Detroit cry, “Waaaaaaah, China is being mean to us. Give us a $50 Billion bailout!”
It's already happened. US is going to put a 100% tariff on Chinese imported vehicles. BYD will only be able to sell in the US if they set up factories in the NAFTA zone.
Biden just raised Chinese EV tariffs to100%
@@mshackleton1, they already are.
I used to be a loyal Toyota customer but their anti green lobbying and lack of a viable EV has lost them my future custom, I now drive an MG4
Same, it opened my eyes about their priorities are themselves, so long as they survive stuff the rest of the world and the planet.
So now you drive a car made by a brutal country that has the worst abuse of labor rights, human rights and environmental pollution? lol
I live in Germany and now own only EV cars, we have an EQA250 and a Smart EQ ForTwo. Best thing we've ever done. I've all but given up talking to friends and colleagues about the merits and ease of use of EVs, as the mainstream media and social media has people absolutely against EVs. It really doesn't matter how many myths you try to dispel people just don't believe you.
And who was the loudest voice to the Australian government to weaken the New Vehicle Efficiency Standards (which they ultimately got their way)? You guessed right, Toyota.
When Toyota's hydrogen car is powered by Shell's hydrogen station, you know they're teaming up against EV
I thought Hyundai just invested $50 Billion into EV's and hybrids? Plus, Hyundai has a new factory in Georgia, USA for electric. Are they not really trying on EV's?
Hyundai's EVs are just going to creep into everyone's garage quietly. They will flourish that way.
Yeah i was surprised to see Hyundai scored that low. up where i am in BC Canada the Hyundai/kia EV's are clearly the most popular EV's on the road after Tesla. I see tons every day. But maybe they are less sold in other regions...
@@fgauer1 I had Hyundai NZ contact me to sell me an original Ioniq EV at a reduced price.
Can't they sell them normally?
I pray hyundai really watches their ass. China will drive out hyundai from China likely by the end of 2024 once hyundai sells their 3rd plant, but there's no one left to spend that money left. Then China will flood hyundai out of Australia,and then out of Europe. Selling EVs for hyundai will be a bloodbath. Don't rush in and think its nirvana the way GM and FORD in America. Its a giant trap.
Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out if a Hyundai EV or hybrid is a wise purchase or not. They don't yet have the "North American Charging Standard" (NACS) plug yet until 2025 but they have a NACS adapter so? I'm looking at a 2024 Kona SEL right now and wondering if I should get it or wait for something with the NACS plug and better battery? The batteries I really want won't come out until 2025. It would be my only care so, I don't want to get kicked out of hospitals or have to fear putting it in the garage tho - will the 2024 Kona still have those issues? If not a Hyundai, what's the next best choice for the price?
Sadly this is our fate, we only care for our self interest, until the day of reckoning when it is too late.
Day of reckoning ? Lol
"You will own nothing, eat ze bugs and be happy"
being selfish is distructive. What about the childrens when they grow up, they will hate those that pollute their air meanwhile those guilty of anti clean air lie in the grave
Even with the giant subsidies granted for EV adoption the adoption rate governments aim for are not being achieved. That’s just how it is.
Theres a reason car companies aren’t making a profit selling them. Tesla can only do it because it sells vehicles in the 40k price range at scale. It can’t do it for much cheaper models. And it isn’t doing it for small scale vehicles like cybertruck. There is no special recipe Tesla has. Tesla would sell at a loss if it had to supply lower cost vehicles.
You're just spouting the "old auto industry" FUD. Grow a brain?😊
No, Tesla does have a special recipe no one else has - it’s called great software control. That takes talent, plain and simple. The integration into all electric is incredible and in many ways necessary - especially for self driving and safety features. Plus, they were the first manufacturer of any scale to use aluminum mega-casting machines to reduce part count and thus Cost. Any legacy automaker that tries to use the old methods will get burnt badly - as you can see both Ford and GM have been.
You may be right that Tesla would have to sell at a loss if it were to try and sell a $25k car for example, but it may be that the risk of doing so right now is simply to great. Why not wait for newer low cost battery tech to improve? That is what I would do until the market for higher profit cars saturates.
Studebaker is the only US company that transitioned from horse and buggy to ICE.
The ones that transitioned to EVs in the late 1800s and early 1900s, quickly went bust. But ICE was/is a far more complex technology to master.
its not called "sabotaging" , its called competition and lobbying is legal. Lets not get over carried away by EVs
Toyota is afraid to become like Kodak
Wrong
You should read the Kodak story & how they ignored the digital camera disruption & went bankrupt!!! It's AMAZING the number of similarities in the moves that Kodak made, that Toyota has been making. Toyota IS the next Kodak!!!
Desperate times lead to desperate measures. But when the light shines on the crimes, the agents of evil will obtain nothing but hatred and disdain.
The agents of evil are Gore and Thunberg . Never has their forecasts come into reality .
Ah, yes. Just use the tyranny of a totalitarian government to FORCE people to do what YOU think is the right thing. Sorry, Comrade, we aren't going to sit back and let you nutcases dictate every aspect of our lives.
Trading in my Camry Hybrid for a New Model 3 LR. Delivery in June. Ordered M3 in April. Once I have the M3, I will be carbon negative. Solar system at home with two Tesla batteries. So the only additional carbon me and my wife will be is when we breathe out.
Electrify the world for a cleaner world for our children and grandchildren!!
Thats why was not buying an ev from any legacy automaker, because these companies are not trustworthy. Plus they cram ev parts into old platforms. What a waste.
In rural America EVs are not partical unless you can charge at home. I live in a county of 70,000 and only one super charger location. The next closest is fifty miles away.
This is a battle of companies that think shareholders are more important than people. And politicians think lobby groups with lots of money are more important than people. I am still at Guangzhou China and have not ridden a taxi which is not a EV. Even with all the bad press, they have some policies which are good for the people.
Evs need to be under $15k new. That’s when people will accept them
Hear hear!
The real issue is usage of transport, trying to make 1 size fits all is madness, I do 4000 miles a year, making me buy an ev is worse for the environment than my current petrol car, when you calculate the cost its emitted and including it manufacturering cost puts it around what a new un driven tesla model 3 would pump out. I produce my own renewable energy at home from solar yet I have to pay more for tax. Its all about continuous revenue rather than the environment, this means that eventually it will collapse. I feel sorry for anyone who's brought a new eV with their own money, they will have lost a huge amount
It's disgusting!!!
I was an EV revulotion enthuziast for many years but, I recently realized that this process îs discretly sabotagedby every everypart involved. Including the guverments, the media and even the EV manufacturers. Analized this.
1. Batery pack availability as a part does not exist. Due to its continuosly degradation, the batery cells behave like any other consumable . Like brake pads, tyres, etc. But you can not buy a new one after the old one has degrated becouse its price îs simply biger than the cars value. So the conclusion îs the EV are not real cars, but batteries on whells. When the bat îs over, the car is over. Thats unacceptable as an EV owner. I think the guverments should force any EV producer to declare a baterry pack price în its comercial adverts egually like the Banks declare the interests rateș for their credits.
2. The juice prices are really crazy. I have seen even 0,79 euros for 1kwh. This is even more expensive than the gas. The govs has to take action. Normal price îs 0,15 euros .
And if you sell it high quantity should even be cheaper.
3. Insurance companies refused to take risks for repairs after accidentes. Who take them ? Nobody . Anacceptable.
They are many other issues but I stop here. All these are simply sabotaging facts.
Here we go. More "paid for" negative disinformation propaganda. Try to at least get SOME of the grammar correct.
The batteries last 150k and some even 200k miles. That’s the life of the car you unlikely that you have to replace the battery.
I thought the ending of subsidies and tax breaks at the taxpayers expense,even though most of them don't even own or could afford an ev was the reason.
Yet, Government are still subsidizing petroleum Company!
the government gives subsidies for 1000s of reasons to individuals & corporations....one day you might be able to afford a nice car, try harder
@@2funny269 Yes giving subsidies to polute even more to oil company make sense, right?
@@rozonoemi9374 also subsidies for school teachers, farming & food production, even Tesla/Space X got $5 Billion
@@2funny269 I already have two nice cars,just don't want or need a new one.Next...
This story will change in the next 12 months when Tesla starts to pour out Model 2s at $25K sticker price. Then a new group of adopters will be able to buy a BEV within their price range. It's up to Tesla and the Chinese BEV manufacturers to grab these newly arriving customers.
I just had a conversation with a friend a few hours ago. In Canada, Hyundai is charging customers $50,000 for new batteries in 5 year old cars that only cost thar much new. The written quotes are showing up online as frustrated customers vent publicly. I suggested Hyundai is doing this intentionally to stiffle sales of EVs.
The fear of battery replacement is my primary reason for not buying an EV.
Some EV enthusiasts say they don't want to sell EVs because repairs are too cheap, and others say the reason EV repairs are so expensive is to put people off buying them! which is it? The truth seems closer to what you say, people don't want them because repairs are too high.
It’s been nearly 3 years since I traded my BMW V8 gas guzzler for a Tesla model SR plus, and I haven’t looked back once.
I rented a Tesla once and when back to my ICE I swore I would never do that to myself again. Haven't looked back once.
@@PabloLpH Just things that never happened.
I rented a Tesla once and ever since I feel like I'm getting into a horse buggy every time I drive an ICE.
Hertz did look back. Lol
@@nicebokeplease
Because they are losing money with every EV made, and more and more EV stay unsold without government subsidies. If EV charging stations were profitable, there would be many investors to build them, apart from TESLA everyone wait to see what's happening.
The FUD campaign is clearly working in the short term. I hear the negative talking points parroted every day by people unfamiliar with BEVs. We are nearing the 10% tipping point in the US and the auto and oil companies know it. So they are fighting really hard (have you noticed an increase in the FUD--I have!) to stop BEV sales any way possible. In the longer term, the ones fighting the hardest to slow this will most likely be the ones which will fall hardest. Toyota may not survive the transition. Once the changeover occurs and a 20% drop in oil consumption occurs, many petroleum companies that can't adapt will die and the trend will accelerate.
I intend to build an electric vehicle that changes how we move.
BBBBBB-UUUUUU-TTTTTT the car companies are RIGHT!
Electrifying all cars is crazy.
Sam: You missed the biggest scam plug in Hybrids, the majority of which are almost never plugged in.
Plug-in hybrids need a pure electric range that at least matches the owner's daily commute to justify the hassle of plugging in, and those from legacy auto typically have a battery so small as to be almost useless.
With a large enough battery a PHEV essentially becomes an extended-range EV; something you run on pure electricity for your day-to-day use, and run on fuel for the eventual long trip. For the most part, though, I've only ever seen a reasonable electric range on Chinese PHEVs.
I think the EV industry needs to stop relying on the climate change argument -there are several contradictory data sets and studies to the degree that is actually happening. The smarter strategy is to point to the economic benefits of EVs . As EV ownership grows and and data is compiled - they last longer and are cheaper to own as well as being better at performance. Compete on that and stay out of the political arguments. The most concrete environmental benefit that EVs can point to is higher air quality particularly in urban environments. The EV platform can compete on straight economics.
"The EV platform can compete on straight economics"
Not yet, at least for many people. I got a Corolla Hybrid last year for cheaper than the cheapest, nastiest Chinese EV available in Australia. It costs the same per kilometer in petrol to run as the electricity to run a similar sized EV (to be fair, I'm in South Australia, which has the most expensive electricity in the world).
The biggest expense of an EV is depreciation, which is absolutely catastrophic compared to ICE cars. Major EV brands offer an 8-year battery warranty, but that is for 70% battery capacity. In 8 years time, my Corolla will still hold the same amount of fuel, and still have MANY years of reliable driving ahead of it (my old Corolla it replaced was still going strong after 26 years).
@@michaelnoble2432 - Your missing a key item - maintenance. That is where EVs shine. In the US and Virginia in particular - we have relatively cheap electricity rates. I am not concerned with depreciation as I drive cars into the ground.
No surprise here, they have done it before to kill the competition.
This is normal. They lose Billions if they don’t
Or they are reacting to what consumers want 🤔
Hybrids is the biggest growth segment at the moment, refocusing on this market then makes sense.
BEV sales are slowing, Hybrids are skyrocketing (Camery sold record number since 2001) and PHEV growing albeit at a slower rate.
And several reports now show the inflated mileage per gallon claims from hybrid manufacturers...what a surprise...
If people don't want to buy them why should companies make them. If there was $ to be made they would sell their mothers. It's up to the people to buy 66 per cent not the companies to make 66 per cent if they are not selling.
I'm up-voting sane, reasoned comments in this thread. So far I've seen precious few.
None of this is surprising, as you say Sam. Most of these companies are run by cowardly executives, who have dedicated their lives to climbing the corporate greasy pole. None are visionaries like Henry Ford and other founders, who knew their companies inside out. These companies have grown into gigantic supertankers, and the executives are terrified of changing course, they don't know how, they don't have the knowledge to make the profound and urgent changes. Nor are there foolproof business theories on how to change course so fundamentally. They’d rather do token marketing gestures and trumpet their (pitiful) achievements in advertising. In the mean time they will continue to pocket their inflated salaries, that’s all they really care about.
Herbert Diess could have saved VW - he knew the future was EVs - so they sacked him....
fitting LPG to Bi-Fuel all ICE would eliminate particulates to the standards they are now demanding for emissions levels, but they missed the boat for cleaning up the environment.
You mentioned the UK but in the UK only around 50% of drivers would have access to a suitable home charger. And rapid public charging is more expensive than filling with fuel.
Outside of subsidised company car sales, private buyers of EVs in the UK are almost non-existent.
There is also concern about placing chargers underneath large apartment blocks for overnight charging.
One large automaker has already said, if the UK sticks with mandates that a certain % of EVs must be sold they will have to leave the UK market as they can't force people to buy EVs they don't want.
50%? I'm pretty sure you made up those numbers. Do you have proof of any of that?
Thank you conservative, i.e. backwards, government for this. In Germany, wallboxes were and are heavily subsidised, so it is much easier and cheaper to get one. Regardless: We are saving so much money with our electric car, it was definitely worth getting one installed. Additionally, it is much more convenient to have one: No more trips to the gas station, no more hunting low prices, just come home, plug in, and presto!
@@joergmaass the “forcing of governments” has been on the petrol side for so long few notice it but change of any kind looks like force with a capital F.
I would slow charge anyway meaning using a regular plug in. But also I moved to town.
But once the charge stations build out, not only will we no longer be forced to breathe polluted air to stay mobile, the battery tech will have improved even more and a smorgasbord of charging options will be available like stations, quicker battery efficiency meaning more power for less battery, wireless charging etc etc etc.
I am here for it. I’ll mostly be biking but when TaaS gets more common, I know which vehicles I will ask for. It’s gonna be fun to rent different vehicles for travel and personal projects too.
Regulations are being changed to allow people without driveways to run the cables through a slot in the pavement and that should allow more people to charge from their homes.
That car maker wouldn't be Toyota would it? That company is a nuisance. The technology is available for them to make electric cars but they won't and they make threats. I think that these threats are irrelevant because Toyota will contract if it doesn't start making serious EVs and not that waste of space known as the BZ4X.
@@catherinegrimes2308 No not Toyota, in fact they will probably be ok as they have plans for a phev that will meet the UK requirements in terms of qualifying as an EV.
For the pavement idea, they would surely have to make it so that you had a numbered parking space outside your house?
During winter driving EV occupants wear CarHeart winter overalls and Russian fur caps along with Hot Fingers mittens to extend the EV range by not using the heater inside.
Not in my EV they don't. I set the climate control to 18-20 degrees Celsius, just as I did in my ICE car. My range last winter was 260 miles, which was plenty for me.
Set 16°C (19°C if female) turn on sit and steeringwheel heater should work just fine
That’s it….my next EV will be a Tesla. I’ve enjoyed representing an alternative to Elon Musk and Tesla by driving a Kia Niro EV while working as a Lyft driver these last few years, due to not wanting to involve myself in the drama put out there by the media, and instead focus on getting people in electric vehicles in general. The recent behavior of OEMs, the media, and the powers that be trying to manipulate Tesla stock value has made me terrified of the power of misinformation, while also realizing that this tactic to slow down the transition of EVS will be the very thing that brings them down. China has been waiting at the door with cheaper electric vehicles for years now our president today just had to sign a 100% tariff to stop this competition. These guys started working on their book report day one-six months before, while we haven’t even started and it’s due tomorrow morning . Meanwhile, everyone in America is trying to stop the transition to adapting new technology, to evolving becoming a leader in battery chemistry, production lines,etc. OEMs are scared that they can’t turn a profit, which is why is they didn’t get a start 12 years ago with Tesla. The only thing that will save them now isa time-machine.
I’ve come to realize I must go all in on Tesla, and be more honest about their incredible advantage over the competition- because of this anti-ev campaign as of the last few months. What a ‘great’ plan Big Oil/OEMs have, to only make us stronger & more motivated by putting their bias & ignorance out in the open for all to see. Even with whatever Elon Musk decided to tweet that day. Anti-EV sabotaging will always bother me more than a political tweet from Elon.🇺🇸
Before blaming Japan for the EV slowdown one should visit Japan and see what they drive and how they drive. Microcars are everywhere with financial and practical incentives for consumers to purchase them. And many of them are hybrid with increasing EV range. Oh, I almost forgot to mention their terrific electric train and subway system that takes one pretty much everywhere...
EV's Range and performance degrade greatly in cold temps. Buy a Hybrid .
Indeed. I'm VERY glad I bought a Corolla Hybrid last year instead of an EV. Half the fuel consumption of my old Corolla, and it costs the same per kilometer to run as an EV. Not to mention being much cheaper.
"We now know emissions from vehicles are killing us..." (03:04)
"...we'll have so spend more money putting filters on them" (03:16)
Perhaps you've heard of CATALYTIC CONVERTERS, which are "filters" to remove the harmful pollutants from ICE vehicle exhausts? They've been mandatory for DECADES in civilized countries.
Oh my, what ignorance. Catalytic converters do not remove pollutants. They allow the combustion of “Unburnt gasoline” as its Primary function. If there is lead or any other pollutant in the fuel it generally will get past it and out into the atmosphere through the exhaust.
Your rant is ignorant. Diesel and gasoline burning engines emit toxic gases that are not good to ingest in your lungs - just because you can’t see it does not mean it is not harmful. Coal power plants the same, even with those nice electrostatic filters installed.
Same thing with radiation poisoning - you can’t see that either. Finally, catalytic converters were only a stop gap on the way to better technology, but they contain Platinum or Palladium as the catalyst - hence the term. EV’s reduce this polution to essentially zero as long as the charging infrastructure is correct. And that is getting better by the day.
Learning more about Revux makes me even more bullish.
I am in a parking lot right now. Most of the cars are trucks and SUVs for a single person. Fix this first.
Stop mandating. You just have to have total control just stop.
As with drugs, you mean.
I would like to buy an EV, however they are too expensive and too big. Don't want or need a Cybertruck. The cheapest Onroad cost of a Petrol car is about 19k AUD and the cheapest EV is 36K. There is 150,000 kms worth of petrol value in the difference. After ten years use the petrol car may well be selling for the same as the EV would sell for in the second hand car market. I wish this wasn't true.
In 10 years most EVs will only be worth scrap value. Once an EV's battery is on its last legs no one in their right mind would want it.
@@michaelnoble2432 thing is that the car that have value after 10 years is a toyota, means cant buy anything else other than a toyota..this the boring part when talk about resale value
A Tesla M3 is very small and not that expensive by comparison to any luxury brand. Especially like an Audi A4. Battery technology will be less and less expensive as time move forward making replacement batteries much cheaper than today. Plus, EVs will greatly outlast any ice car in the very near future by 100k miles or more. I don’t buy a car to resell it anyway, I drive it until the wheels fall off - just like my Honda Accord V6 that had 255k miles before it became to expensive and worn out to fix. The difference in the prices you cite will shrink to zero. By then, most cars sold will be EV only, but it may take longer in the outback.
@@michaelnoble2432the batteries are good they don’t drop to 50% health until 200,000 miles. You’ll likely sell your car long before that.
@@zonk1477 no one wants a car with 50% of the range it started with. Look at the catastrophic depreciation of EVs, particularly those approaching the expiry of the battery warranty.
this has been obvious for a long time. not all legacy auto can be as inept have they have shown themselves to be with EVs.
It's odd that Toyota is so opposed to EVs, since their hybrid drivetrain would be a fairly good one for EVs. Just delete the ICE and put the main electric motor in place of it. Of course the electric motors would have to be more powerful, but it would work.
Largest automakers by market capitalisation - Tesla 548.19 Billion, Toyota 290.91B, BYD 87.51B, Ford 48.99B. Place your bets.
I'm betting on Toyota
Tesla stock is the bitcoin of stock, overvalued hype. I'd bet on BYD as it's still highly undervalued
Just to put it in perspective, if you bought all 4 companies at those prices at today's money, without growth, making your money back would take over 43 years with Tesla, 8 years with Toyota, 19 years with BYD, and 12 with Ford.
Lots of people commenting on free market principles. Guess no need for the 100% import tariff on EVs then. Also note that lobbying works per the tobacco industry playbook which is well documented. Lobbying is a free market impediment.
Read up on the Chinese agency SASAC and SOEs. It may help you understand why companies can not directly compete with countries.
Your tariff comment is so ignorant & misguided, I would hope if you were in this thread you'd have more insight than that. Guess not.
@@danharold3087 Except the companies exporting are a mix of state-owned and purely private. The leaders, BYD and Geely are privately owned and listed.
@@beautifulgirl219 You haven't provided any substantive arguments, just an ill-informed opinion. Do better.
@@asoganmoodaly8743 I don't have the time, inclination, or responsibility to educate the planet on the truth, but that doesn't change the truth. Your comment is argumentative and pejorative. Point your finger in the mirror little one.
It is really sad that these companies are willing to extend the destruction of the environment. Really disappointing that Toyota is the leader of the pack when it used to be the best in this regard with the Prius. Toyota had a choice to be in the forefront of ev's. They have chosen Hydrogen and the status quo, really sad. Thanks Sam.
My Corolla Hybrid uses HALF the fuel compared to the old Corolla it replaced. It's absurd to think that's of no benefit (to the environment or my wallet).
@@michaelnoble2432 That's a great point and you were obviously thinking about this earlier than most. Its just that the ev transcends the hybrid in terms of environment and dollars, so my point is that it is strange that Toyota didn't jump on the ev wagon. They've arguably made the best cars on the road for many years. I hope it doesn't happen but a lot of these legacy manufacturers are doomed if they don't up their game for the ev market. You gotta wonder, why on earth is Toyota pouring money into Hydrogen? There's a great clip of Elon Musk breaking down why Hydrogen is not a great solution for your average car.
@RawandCookedVegan we certainly agree that hydrogen is a completely nonsensical option. But in other ways Toyota seems to have made some excellent business decisions. Their focus on hybrids and dabbling in EVs seems to have been a very wise strategy.
I’m torn about Toyota. They make several hybrids that can be used as EV’s probably 95 percent of the time.
Except - a lot are company cars and the users are given a FUEL card - fill with petrol or diesel for free - so no incentive to "plug-in"....
I'll try again. Hydrogen as a fuel for cars fails on multiple levels - whereas battery tech is moving ahead by leaps and bounds, and is already more than viable.
Hydrogen could work for certain scenario’s maybe point to point transport, maybe a Ferry crossing on a fixed route day after day could use Hydrogen or those road trains they use in Australia again going point to point. Right now it seems like a product looking for a job though.
@@stevenbarrett7648 An interesting side note is that Hydrogen is being given great incentives in European aviation experiments these days for long range and short range transport by either direct burning or using fuel cells for power. But even there, pure electric will win the short range market.
@@RandyP-jr1ek Yes its only a matter of time that battery technology is such that several thousand miles in an electric plane will be possible.
When I first started out as a CW radio operator we had transmitters that filled a huge room, by the time I had finished folk were walking about chatting to the world via pocket sized mobiles !.
Cars replaced horses but be aware that robots will replace humans !
@@stevenbarrett7648 Thankfully I’m retired and won’t last that long! :) But I’m still concerned about humanities future prospects given the lunatic leaders at the top of many countries. Maybe logical robots will intervene?!
@@RandyP-jr1ek me too Randy, thing is the people at the top are not the elected politicians its their business masters who pull the strings and always have.
We are heading towards yet another huge war as the money men make cash selling arms & ammunition then building materials to rebuild afterwards, the people element don’t really come into it apart from buying the stuff these companies churn out.
Krupps Steel, should have been closed after WWII, ditto VW and of course the folks who made the gas ovens, Siemens…..even BMW still stick it to us all, their bonnet badge being the technical drawing symbol for a propeller as in for a warplane, the things they made their money on in the last world conflict and now they are pushing killer cars out to Joe Public even when they know their emissions are killing our children….not their kids as they will be safe up in the Swiss mountains breathing clean air or on their own island somewhere !
Not sabotaging, it's EV demand that peaked. And the second hand market for EVs is tanking...
You are wrong. Mar2024 sales up 23% on Mar2023
@@Longtack55I work in the US auto market. Nobody wants EVs. Especially people who bought one. 2 drivers from my company rented them and then decided they'd never buy. And so many customers are mad they got tricked. Strangely, many compare it to COVID vaccines and masks, making comments that they 'got dupped again.'
Its impossible for 1 billion cars the have batteries and all those cars to be replaced every 5 years. People want to but new things all the time.
I have concerns on two fronts.
One is GM gobbling up NEVI funds and setting inflated prices. Maybe to make EVs less economical.
Two Elons suddenly showing intrest in Trump and Trumps alleged back door deals with big oil.
If they (pro oil) own the EV infrastructure then nothing changes.
😲 what a surprise evil enterprises are EVIL.
I am tired of people being dishonest about carbon being a pollutant, this is not true. Carbon is a great way for government to make lots of money by taxing it. Why do greenhouses have carbon pumped in to make the plants grow faster? Also why do you show pictures of cars blowing out harmless condensation when talking about how polluting they are? If EV's are good people will buy them, but even Tesla is selling lss cars than it used to. I lived in Sydney when the skies were brown, now they are clear except when there are bushfires or burning off of fuel. I like electric cars, but it is wrong of government trying to push them by subsidising their sales. When they are good enough and reasonable priced, without financial assistant they will succeed otherwise they won't. The world isn't ending because of carbon pollution, however the world may end from being destroyed by wind and solar farms polluting our farm lands.
Well said
Ever heard of black lung? That’s about as carbon containing as anything gets! Yeah great idea, let’s all give you the expert a thumbs up. How about “Love Canal”?
Governments push policies like EV adoption because they see it as a good in multiple dimensions. Subsidizing sales by giving a tax break to early adopters is hardly damaging to any one else; not to mention the lack of polution being sucked into others lungs on a daily basis. Yeah, just leaving it to the most greedy companies that don’t really give a damn about your children’s health is a great idea that has been tried and found wanting. Don’t have kids? Well I do and your argument is idiotic.
Solar polluting farm lands? Really, what industry do you work for? Union Carbide?
Carbon is like most things, we need roughly the right amount for the entire planet to stay in balance. To much or too little causes problems. Think about your body and, say, salt. Eat none and you die quite quickly. Eat a kilogram and you will get very sick.
I think they're honest, but most people seem genuinely confused about the word 'carbon' I think because it sounds 'dirty' they think Co2 is what causes smog. And media stock images used to show chimneys 'belching Co2' are invariably cooling towers emitting water vapor. They have no idea that Co2 is invisible, odorless, naturally occurring and what actually makes Earth green. But in any further discussion it's obvious they're not particularly interested. They believe the 'solutions' are good ideas anyway, so why scrutinize the 'problem'?
What boat did you get off?
Wow, I have been a big Toyota fan. I own a 2003 Tundra. But no longer. My next vehicle will be an Aptera. With oil production set to start falling in the next few years and legacy auto makers flubbing the transition, EVs will win. Now is an awesome EV stock buying opportunity! 😀
It's like the legacy oems need to be named defendants along side fossil fuel companies in class action suits.
The legacy ICE manufacturers probably see the writing on the wall but are reacting to short term demand issues in cutting back on the production of EV's. It's the dealerships that are resisting the most. If you go into an ICE dealership and ask about their EV's they either act clueless, try to steer you to an ICE car, or begrudgingly show you an EV but without much enthusiasm.
That EV fever is another handfull of sand in the eyes... In EU maybe 25% can charge them at home... Even most buildings with garages do not support this electrical surplus, not even the transformator for the block. You're talking about "easy 60%" 😂... Environment? Don't scrap cars and fridges that could still hold another 15 years.. I drive a 1976 bike and a small 1991 Peugeot 205 with 350k, 1140cc engine, comfortable, 800kg, cheap spares and tires, no AC, no electronics. But I'm forbidden do enter the city centre... As if a new Q7 would pollute less...Would you drive one too?? I doubt it...
I’m grateful that China is leading the way with fabulous ev cars and batteries. ❤😊
I believe Toyota is riding on it's past reputation to sell its cars. My wife bought a 2022 Prius and the specs haven't changed that much in 20 years. They are far behind the times. You can tell Toyota new they had a good thing and keeps selling that thing year after year with minor to no improvements, kinda like Kodak film.
Most countries burn fossil fuel for their electricity. Both China and US still burn coal. 20% of all US electricity is generated by burning coal. Roughly 70% of Australian electricity comes from fossil fuel, and a huge chunk of it is from coal. So please explain how is a rapid transition to EVs going to be good for the environment if you cannot generate clean electricity?
Half of all Australian electricity is coming from coal, so you're going to have to burn more coal if more EVs were to be rapidly adopted. And you're accusing automakers for not manufacturing more cars that lose money. Ford and GM tried that strategy but EVs are sitting on dealerships. You're barking up the wrong tree if you really care about the environment. Automakers will gladly manufacturer cars that consumers will purchase.
Don't fall into the fossil fuel industry propaganda. The reason EVs are cleaner is because the power plant (utility) can generate electricity much cleaner and more efficiently than giving gasoline to millions of individual automobiles. Your utility can burn far cleaner fuels than your car can, such as natural gas. Putting gasoline into a car wastes 75% of the energy to heat.
In the u.s. solar wind and battery produce more electric than coal and the results the second largest coal mining company in the u.s. is closing down this year. Shell oil company is closing 1000 gas stations this year and next. It won’t be long before the gas lovers buts are kicked.
So you like breathing carbon monoxide?
Even run on electricity from coal an EV is more efficient than an ICE:
“an internal combustion engine loses around 80% of the energy that goes into it. A coal-burning power plant loses around 68% of its energy. Thus, an EV powered purely by coal still uses less energy than a car powered by gasoline.
Methane gas power plants are more efficient than coal power, so an EV charged with electricity from methane gas uses about half as much energy as a similar car powered by gasoline.”
@@av_oid I'm sure somebody good at math can do the calculation. If all the new cars being sold becomes fully electric vehicles, how much more fossil fuel do we need to burn to match the increased electricity demand? And I have no idea how much money needs to be invested to modernize the electric grid to deal with the increased electricity needs. Based on reports from the US, 10 charging units in one location is equivalent to 500 household electricity usage.
Is not just the car companies. Its the dealers. They are an extremely powerful lobby group.
Not surprising, legacy car makers are so far behind. Maybe one or two will survive.
Apart from this, also Europe itself (and maybe also US) are the problem. In EU for example, governments push to get everything electrified. However: power grids are not at all adapted to the surge in energy requirements. Consequence: energy bill surges (not due to cost on energy, but due to raised taxes you have to pay as they need that money to reform the electricity grid). Consequence: apart from much more expensive cars, people also have crazy energy bills for charging their cars at home which is why people dont buy, which also makes car makers to hold off on pushing EVs as there is more profit in fuel cars. I am one of the lucky ones having a company car, which at these times are all electrical in Belgium. But there is not a lot of people buying EVs here in Belgium on a private basis due to all the hidden costs that come with it one side, and the "adapt rules as you go"attitude of the government: rules with regards to taxes on energy, funding, benefits change as they see fit (changes every year) so you cannot make a long term payment plan as a private customer. In my opinion EU car makers do not really sabotage, they are careful not going bankrupt by plumetting sales in EU because people simply dont buy the cars because of government trying to knock the money out of everyones pockets to sponsor their energy projects which are long overdue (and they used all of the tax money they got in the past 2 decades to sponsor other things such as social security, migration,... instead of building out a strong energy grid).
If you look at the stats in Belgium you will see that the majority of EVs are lease cars from companies and only a small percentage is privately owned
Don't agree with anyone stopping the advancement of cleaner running vehicles.I don't think the current battery technology is exactly going to help the environment in the broad term either.
Yeah it is. Battery tech is great and recycling is an option.
Battery technology help the environment? Who expects that? There are a few environmental downsides to battery production, but you should read up about how good for the environment the oil business is.
@@LinzDubNZ That's why I said about cleaner running vehicles.I like electric cars basically,but I don't like the battery technology they're using.The oil industry is a disgrace with what they have been allowed to get up to over the years.I certainly won't be sad to see them destroyed.
@@LinzDubNZ Also I get your reply about batteries helping the environment,but many times it's claimed they're better for the environment when they clearly aren't.
@@stevengriffin7873 Stick to burning fossil fuels, if it helps you sleep at night....
Share the report link please? Interested people might want to see it for themselves.
"Trust me, bro" isn't good enough for you?
Do you think it is a good time to buy a Tesla Model 3 Performance in Australia? Looking to lease one to own.
A slow, inevitable decline as people start buying electric cars made by Chinese manufacturers, is quite likely what will happen. I'm surprised the big auto makers don't know this.